The Human Carnivore Myth

[EC1000]

Posted by Abhaya (here)
The key is to be as least violent, in each individuals circumstances, that we can reasonably be. If we do this we are doing good.

no agruement there.

also no argument with the violence animals used for food are subjected to and how awful it is. I just personally don't believe that if a person consumes these products it automatically makes them less of a spiritual being than someone who does not. However, perhaps it is part of the human evolvement process to exist as vegans (you know, after so many thousands and thousads of years everyone is vegan).

[ROMANWKT]

Hi all

Thank you for all your opinion, and you have been busy, but alas you're on the wrong thread, you should go to THE VEGETARIAN MYTH thread, that where the fight is.

How come chimps have a set of two more chromosomes than a human, it seems we have DEvolved from them and yet have higher consciousness, don't sound right does it??

Rather than me explaining a work of a man who did his homework, yes I could explain his meaning but not his knowledge, the man is a wordsmith and rather than me trying to explain his work, he chooses his word carefully so that you miss nothing, Why my sentiments, why not get it from the horses mouth. he covers the misinterpretation of the bible, the old monkey himself Darwin, and most importantly the old text of the Occult and old masters knowledge, Masonic view and understanding, in other words the truth before it got perverted. there is a lot there, a hell of a lot there, the second recording is very informing to our evolution.

I will discuss anything about this subject with anybody here on this thread, as long as you do your home work first, then you can argue all you like afterwards. I did my home work and brought you this to your attention. treat this as new information as you had never heard it before, refresh what you had learnt or heard before, you will most defiantly have the whole picture when you listen to what has been placed here for your attention.

Warmest regards and thank you

roman

[Abhaya]

Posted by EC1000 (here)

Posted by Abhaya (here)
The key is to be as least violent, in each individuals circumstances, that we can reasonably be. If we do this we are doing good.

no agruement there.

also no argument with the violence animals used for food are subjected to and how awful it is. I just personally don't believe that if a person consumes these products it automatically makes them less of a spiritual being than someone who does not. However, perhaps it is part of the human evolvement process to exist as vegans (you know, after so many thousands and thousads of years everyone is vegan).

What one does when ignorant of the truth results in very different karma, then if one is to partake knowingly.

However if one sees these horrors and still decides to take part in them. It is for certain not good for their spirituality

[The One]

We are all going to the same place

Dont matter what ya eat enjoy what suits you best.Also if you get someone trying to brainwash you just follow your own path and leave a trail.You will not get to a higher existence for being one or the other and if someone tells you otherwise they are talking complete BS.

Cheers

[ROMANWKT]

Posted by The One (here)
We are all going to the same place

Dont matter what ya eat enjoy what suits you best.Also if you get someone trying to brainwash you just follow your own path and leave a trail.You will not get to a higher existence for being one or the other and if someone tells you otherwise they are talking complete BS.

Cheers

Well my friend, you obviously had not listened to anything people have said here, please explain to everybody how you came to this most enlighten conclusion????

Regards

roman

[Abhaya]

Posted by The One (here)
We are all going to the same place

Dont matter what ya eat enjoy what suits you best.Also if you get someone trying to brainwash you just follow your own path and leave a trail.You will not get to a higher existence for being one or the other and if someone tells you otherwise they are talking complete BS.
Cheers

Seems like more chaos theory to me. "We are all going to the same place so therefor just choose to eat what ever you want". If I choose to live off of new born babies it's going to take me alot longer to get there. and by that same theory if since we are all going to the same place eventually (which I agree with) we might as well have some fun, play this game grand theft auto style blow up some buildings rob a bank. Do what ever we want, We'll still all reach source eventually right?


Also you could compare this logic along the line of, " hey we are all going to die so we might as well smoke cigarettes." But of course your quality of life will be reduced by smoking. Similarly your conscienceness will be effected by what you choose to kill in order to live. Yes one day you will see the light and eventually reach the same place as everyone else but why wait...

[DouglasDanger]

Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
I think that this information will get lost in the VEGETARIAN MYTH THREAD, so I am opening this information on its own, as to for once and for all finish the war with meat eaters and vegans. if you listen to these 3 MP3s recordings with picture assist if you wish, you will have no doubt to our true nature.


If any of you have the courage and interest to know the truth, even for the vegans who sometime doubt that they are doing right, and to the meat eaters that think that they are doing nothing wrong and think they are on a spiritual path, think again, know and understand that you again had been lied to, all of humanity had been lied to, and yes there are people who had been sensitive to the truth, you may find the truth shocking, if you really want to live in ignorance then don't bother, but you meat eaters are 10000000000% wrong.

Show your conviction and listen to these three mp3s

This will be the last matter on the war of meat or veg TRUST ME.


You will learn a lot and understand a lot, I cant tell you how important it is to humanity, this knowledge, as its one of the keys to your freedom on earth.


Please go to www.whatonearthishappening.com

Go to the podcast and listen and watch the pictures as he addresses the issues
OR LISTEN HERE podcast 121, 122, 123.

http://www.whatonearthishappening.co.../WOEIH-121.mp3

http://www.whatonearthishappening.co.../WOEIH-122.mp3

http://www.whatonearthishappening.co.../WOEIH-123.mp3


PS start 121 @20 minutes and start 122@20 minutes

warmest regards to all

roman

PLEASE EXPAND PICS, PUT YOU MOUSE ON IT AND CLICK

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When "war" is used to describe something to me that means this topic have been purposly put into our consciousness' to divide and keep us fighting about a moot silly point... no one on this planet can claim they know true spirituality, if they did they could not tell us because the would be assended to the higher vibrational levels..

[Abhaya]

Whether or not animals should be slaughtered for our taste buds is hardly a minor point. However this is clearly how it is looked at, often as not to rationalize apathy towards it.

[Abhaya]

Also, being a vegitRian isn't going to result in being enlightened right away or even down the road necessarily . No one even said that. It's just common sense that its less violent and that if we can reasonably do it we should

[DeDukshyn]

Anyone caught up in the "carni" vs "vegi" way needs to look at their own life, because obviously the neglect of looking after their own minds has freed up too much time that is being used by judging and condemning others.

That said, the thread title gave me a good smile when I saw it (after seeing the other one), thanks Roman -- for balance..

[Alan]

Hmm, the first MP3 is 2 hours long, I assume #2 and #3 are similar? Asking us to listen to all of them before we're allowed to comment is asking a lot, methinks.

Then in the beginning of the 1st MP3, the speaker says you must watch the movie "The Earthlings" IN IT'S ENTIRETY before you're allowed to call into his show and comment about Carnism.

I see a trend here...

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by alamojo (here)
Hmm, the first MP3 is 2 hours long, I assume #2 and #3 are similar? Asking us to listen to all of them before we're allowed to comment is asking a lot, methinks.

Then in the beginning of the 1st MP3, the speaker says you must watch the movie "The Earthlings" IN IT'S ENTIRETY before you're allowed to call into his show and comment about Carnism.

I see a trend here...

Me as well ...

"Anyone caught up in the "carni" vs "vegi" way needs to look at their own life, because obviously the neglect of looking after their own minds has freed up too much time that is being used by judging and condemning others."

[Alan]

Has anyone seen the movie "The Earthlings"? From what I've been reading it sounds to be about factory farming? If so I'll happily pass, I've been exposed to those horrors enough -- it's ridiculous to think that anyone would support those practices.

[Alan]

Sorry, I had to bail halfway thru the 1st MP3. The guy talking is so full of negative energy I just couldn't take it anymore.

What I got from this was, killing is immoral, including animals, but killing plants is OK.

Meanwhile agriculture kills billions of insects, rodents, fish, birds, etc, but that's OK? Perhaps he addresses this later....

[Bubu]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
I'm not going to enter the latest food debate, so unless ya'll have seen me comment on one of the many old ones, you won't know if I'm saint or sinner in this regard.

What I want to comment on is the use of audio/video recordings to make a point or to "teach". It just makes plain old sense to me that if one feels they have come to the point of being ready to teach, or help others along the path, that they should be able to succinctly express their knowledge and experience in their own words, not point to links saying this will explain everything.

I'm not having a go at you Roman, and you know I respect you. It's just that any more I skip right over links such as these, because I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. Especially from members like you and others who have more time on this planet than many of us young'uns. Tell us straight from the life and times of Roman how you've come over time to your present understanding of the importance of diet.

THAT sir, I would most certainly give a good listen to. Any time...

Cheers,

Fred

Good point Fred. Here is my two cents.

Opinion, exchange of it or even debate is good, this is where we learn. But to say that I am absolutely correct or your absolutely wrong is B******t to me. I mean been many times like this when I am younger, believing that I am absolutely correct only to find out later that I am wrong.

This is only my opinion not absolute. and only meant to share it nothig more...

[Abhaya]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Anyone caught up in the "carni" vs "vegi" way needs to look at their own life, because obviously the neglect of looking after their own minds has freed up too much time that is being used by judging and condemning others.

That said, the thread title gave me a good smile when I saw it (after seeing the other one), thanks Roman -- for balance..

I think that no one is judging anyone in particular. It is more a debate about a current pattern of society, that some choose to take personally.

The begginning of the earthlings movie makes very clear the ultimate message it's trying to convey. As humanity has made steps towards a higher spiritual awareness, in this dense current reality we live in, we have made strides with our ability to see the consscienceness in one another. That thing that unites us all ultimately as family and as equals. First women, then racism, more recently homosexuality, all these previously held ignorances have been seen through. One of the next steps we need to take is to see through speciesism. animals are put in concentration camps worse then any thing man has been subjected to. (And I dare anyone to watch that movie and tell me different.) yet we turn a blind eye and eat from its spoils. And frankly killing it in your back yard is only a lesser of two evils.

People would have thought it equally crazy and self righteous, if you were to say that black people didn't deserve to be slaves and women weren't only supposed to stay in the kitchen to make dinner before civil war times. Well guess what animals don't deserve to be our food either!

Taking the time to think about, what all the other beings that share this reality with us are, is not a waste of time. It is however the greatest laziness to decide it isn't worth thinking about. We eat every day, so this is a major thing both for us individualy and in regards to our individual effect on everything we eat.


We are a thinking being. It is natural to say that in making any progression we need to become less violent. We don't need to kill these creatures to live. How how how can you justify your eating them?? There is just no excuse..... I'm sorry. You owe it to these other beings in fact to take time to really think about this. Watch that movie and see if you can rationalize then.

This is less an attack on you and more a defence for the animals we choose to see as less then living beings. They are our brothers here in this reality and you owe it to them to be as little violent towards them as you can.

Is this all just trivial fact, meant to meaninglessly devide us? Or is this a chance to try and hear our animal brothers calling for help.

[Abhaya]

Posted by alamojo (here)
Sorry, I had to bail halfway thru the 1st MP3. The guy talking is so full of negative energy I just couldn't take it anymore.

What I got from this was, killing is immoral, including animals, but killing plants is OK.

Meanwhile agriculture kills billions of insects, rodents, fish, birds, etc, but that's OK? Perhaps he addresses this later....

This point has been addressed in its essence already on this thread. Yes again we have to kill something to survive in this reality, but This is not a trump card for you by any means in this debate. Because we have to kill something does not give us license to kill anything we want. The key is be as little violent as we can. Plants are living beings to. But they lack a mental facility. Therefor they cannot experiance anything even in the same zipcode in regards to pain, fear, and suffering as a higher animal such as the cow can. As I said before any 5 year old can intuitively see this difference if they were to see a cow getting its throat slit vs plucking an apple from a tree.

And who here is for mass factory agriculture either? Ideally society would all be growing gardens in every back yard and not clear cutting fields with giant death machines. This should be reduced too. And thus we could be less violent in this regard also. But none of these facts give you any more of a license to eat that hamburger guilt free I'm sorry. Think it through. If you have gotten this far in the debate you're ignorance free pass card on this issue is wearing thin. Watch the video, really think about it.

[Prodigal Son]

Posted by noramaccoby (here)

Posted by EC1000 (here)

Posted by Prodigal Son (here)
If this is about animals suffering, plants can feel pain too...

exactly-everything is alive. One time i had a realization that on an apple tree (for example), the tree is like the mommy and the apples are the little babies and someone comes along and rips the baby from its mother and eats it while it still lives. Graphic analogy I know but everything really is alive and I don't think we can say for sure what is being felt by things on all levels and planes of existence, can we? Does the human race really have any understanding of such things? ..At all???

I'm not going to say what I am-veggie or carno. But I have met some pretty mean "spiritually unevolved" vegans in my life time and also some very peaceful and loving folks who eat meat. I don't know if what we eat makes a difference along those lines but I don't know much. But I do know that avoiding certain foods for a period of time or going on fruit/ veggie fasts can change the way I feel within myself and how I preceive things.

I disagree on the first point. We have many apple trees and when they produce fruit, they become incredibly loaded down and heavy with their bounty. It is not hurting the tree at all to pick them, and when the apples are eaten, there is a shared reciprocity with the tree spirit that is powerful and beautiful. Apple tree spirits are incredibly generous and lyrical...

On the point about meat eaters being "less or more spiritual"...this is not an argument I find interesting. I have been vegan, vege, meat eating, selective, etc...all have pros and cons. But at the end of the day - there's this horror show going on outside the cities and it's outrageous slaughter and suffering...and as someone else wrote, the clear cutting of forests for further factory meat production. Complete desensitization of life forms that do not deserve to suffer and methods of food production that are not sustainable. THIS IS NOT AN EITHER OR - it's about PROCESS and how we CHOOSE to live.

One thing that I have learned about this universe that we live in, is that each galaxy, star, planet, etc. is a sentient being... and it very much appreciates gratitude. Almost every day in the Daily Word or Daily Om we are reminded of the importance of this.... and to do it verbally. I still eat a lot of chicken and seafood (one thing I will never do is eat lobster again because they are boiled alive) and I always thank the animal for giving up its life. When I was a Jehovah's Witness I convinced myself that Jehovah was really a poor misunderstood soul who wasn't really angry but jut had hurt feelings because people took him for granted. I would preach to people that all he wanted was for people to be sincerely grateful for everything he gives to them.

That really wasn't far from the truth at all... I just had the wrong god

Intent is everything.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Abhaya (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Anyone caught up in the "carni" vs "vegi" way needs to look at their own life, because obviously the neglect of looking after their own minds has freed up too much time that is being used by judging and condemning others.

That said, the thread title gave me a good smile when I saw it (after seeing the other one), thanks Roman -- for balance..

I think that no one is judging anyone in particular. It is more a debate about a current pattern of society, that some choose to take personally.

The begginning of the earthlings movie makes very clear the ultimate message it's trying to convey. As humanity has made steps towards a higher spiritual awareness, in this dense current reality we live in, we have made strides with our ability to see the consscienceness in one another. That thing that unites us all ultimately as family and as equals. First women, then racism, more recently homosexuality, all these previously held ignorances have been seen through. One of the next steps we need to take is to see through speciesism. animals are put in concentration camps worse then any thing man has been subjected to. (And I dare anyone to watch that movie and tell me different.) yet we turn a blind eye and eat from its spoils. And frankly killing it in your back yard is only a lesser of two evils.

People would have thought it equally crazy and self righteous, if you were to say that black people didn't deserve to be slaves and women weren't only supposed to stay in the kitchen to make dinner before civil war times. Well guess what animals don't deserve to be our food either!

Taking the time to think about, what all the other beings that share this reality with us are, is not a waste of time. It is however the greatest laziness to decide it isn't worth thinking about. We eat every day, so this is a major thing both for us individualy and in regards to our individual effect on everything we eat.


We are a thinking being. It is natural to say that in making any progression we need to become less violent. We don't need to kill these creatures to live. How how how can you justify your eating them?? There is just no excuse..... I'm sorry. You owe it to these other beings in fact to take time to really think about this. Watch that movie and see if you can rationalize then.

This is less an attack on you and more a defence for the animals we choose to see as less then living beings. They are our brothers here in this reality and you owe it to them to be as little violent towards them as you can.

Is this all just trivial fact, meant to meaninglessly devide us? Or is this a chance to try and hear our animal brothers calling for help.

Where focus is, on this topic, division will come. Though, you do have some good insights

[Ultima Thule]

Posted by sheme (here)
I read the Bible one day- "thou shalt not eat flesh with blood in it" these words screamed out at me, I had the knowledge, flesh of the fruits of the Mother Earth -some of her fruit has blood in it- from the beast! The remainder of her fruit comes from the tree. I chose from that day forth to leave the flesh of the Earth with blood in it, instead I choose the bloodless flesh of the fruit of the tree.

There is no wrong or right you will eat what your individual vibration resonates with.
No guilt- blessings from the mother Earth.

What ever it is worth and I apologize to Roman for this sidetrack - IF that biblical quote has survived centuries of distortion and IF the original source meant something specific with it, it could be hypothesized that the blood is the carrier of information, proteins, hormones and other possibly bioactive substances that have an effect on our body, that being the reason why not to consume the blood. At least try to let the blood out as much as possible - minimizing the emotional and biochemical effect.
Some quantities will be left in any case.

UT