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Thread: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

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    Avalon Member Maia Gabrial's Avatar
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    Default Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    How many of you remember that traitor, Jane Fonda? Here are a couple of things she did.... If she had shown ANY remorse for it, she could be forgiven.... maybe...not.

    Quote Subject: Fwd: Boycott "The Butler"

    BOYCOTT "THE BUTLER" AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THIS TRAITOR
    BOYCOTT THIS MOVIE

    What a disgrace to Mrs. Nancy Reagan! Boycott this movie!

    America we must not forget

    JANE FONDA as NANCY REAGAN?

    This cannot go around too much. Those of us that were living
    in those years will never forget that she was a traitor and did
    a lot of damage to our boys.

    She has now been chosen to play Nancy Reagan in her life story.
    I am sending this one out because so many do not know this truth...and
    also because she was on 3 times this week talking about her new book...
    And how good she feels in her 70's. She still does not know what she
    did wrong. Her book just may not make the best seller list if more people knew...
    also...
    Barbara Walters said:
    Thank you all. Many died in Vietnam for our freedoms. I did not like
    Jane Fonda then and I don't like her now.

    She can lead her present life the way she wants and perhaps
    SHE can forget the past, but we DO NOT have to stand by
    without comment and see her "honored" as a "Woman of the Century."
    (I remember this well) For those who served and/or died....

    NEVER FORGIVE A TRAITOR. SHE REALLY WAS A TRAITOR!!

    and now President OBAMA wants to honor her......!!!!

    In Memory of Lt. C. Thomsen Wieland who spent 100 days
    at the Hanoi Hilton [Famous North Vietnam Prison]

    IF YOU NEVER FORWARDED ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE PLEASE
    FORWARD THIS SO THAT EVERYONE WILL KNOW!!!!!!

    A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED. KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA

    This is for all the kids born in the 70's and after who do not know
    and didn't have to bear the burden that our fathers, mothers and
    older brothers and sisters had to bear.

    Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the '100 Women of the Century.'

    BARBARA WALTERS WRITES:
    Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have
    never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
    but specific men who served and sacrificed during the Vietnam War.

    The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot.
    The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.

    In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School
    was a POW in Ho Lo Prison the 'Hanoi Hilton.'

    Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed,
    and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a
    visiting American 'Peace Activist' the 'lenient and humane
    treatment' he'd received.

    He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was dragged away. During
    the subsequent beating, he fell forward on to the camp Commandant 's
    feet, which sent that officer berserk.

    In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from double vision
    (which permanently ended his flying career) from the Commandant's
    frenzied application of a wooden baton.

    From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He
    spent 6 years in the 'Hanoi Hilton'...the first three of which his family
    only knew he was 'missing in action'.

    His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the
    cleaned-up, fed and clothed treatment in preparation for a 'peace
    delegation' visit.

    They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world
    that they were alive and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece
    of paper, with his Social Security Number on it, in the palm of his hand.
    When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line,
    shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: 'Aren't
    you sorry you bombed babies?' and 'Are you grateful for the humane
    treatment from your benevolent captors?'

    Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of
    paper. She took them all without missing a beat...At the end of the line
    and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the
    POW's she turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little
    pieces of paper...Three men died from the subsequent beatings.

    Colonel Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is
    the only reason we know of her actions that day.

    I was a civilian economic development adviser in Vietnam, and was
    captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
    1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.

    I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one year in a cage in
    Cambodia; and one year in a 'black box' in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese
    captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
    nurse in a leprosarium in Banme Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried
    in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

    At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs). We
    were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals...'

    When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist
    political officer if I would be willing to meet with her. I said yes, for I
    wanted to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received...and
    how different it was from the treatment purported by the North
    Vietnamese, and parroted by her as 'humane and lenient.'

    Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees, with
    my arms outstretched with a large steel weight placed on my hands, and
    beaten with a bamboo cane.

    I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda soon after I was released.
    I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She never did answer me.

    These first-hand experiences do not exemplify someone who
    should be honored as part of '100 Years of Great Women.' Lest we forget...
    '100 Years of Great Women' should never include a traitor whose hands are
    covered with the blood of so many patriots.

    There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane 's
    participation in blatant treason, is one of them.

    Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It
    will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we
    will never forget.

    RONALD D. SAMPSON, CM Sgt,
    USAF 716 Maintenance Squadron,
    Chief of Maintenance DSN: 875-6431 COMM: 883-6343


    PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO EVERYONE IN
    YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS
    MAYBE HER STATUS WILL CHANGE.

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    Scotland Avalon Member aranuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Forget about Jane Fonda. You sound to me like you supported the illegal war against the Vietnamese people where the US bombed the women and children with napalm. That was NOT a just war by any means. Thousands of young American boys were conscripted against their will to join the US armed forces and sent there to die. Your time would be better spent campaigning to bring your young men and women home from all the illegal wars they are fighting at the present. Iraq and Afghanistan for example.
    Bring all the young men and women home.

    Stan
    If you don't follow your spirit without hesitation, you end up following your hesitation without spirit.

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    Avalon Member Operator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Quote Posted by aranuk (here)
    Bring all the young men and women home.
    If they would stop to enlist ... they would be home.

    War is not honorable, we can blame the upper echelon to start them but we still enlist to fight them. Power IS in our own hands.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    What is your purpose in bringing this up? Is it enlightening or helpful? No.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Quote Posted by aranuk (here)
    Forget about Jane Fonda. You sound to me like you supported the illegal war against the Vietnamese people where the US bombed the women and children with napalm. That was NOT a just war by any means. Thousands of young American boys were conscripted against their will to join the US armed forces and sent there to die. Your time would be better spent campaigning to bring your young men and women home from all the illegal wars they are fighting at the present. Iraq and Afghanistan for example.
    Bring all the young men and women home.

    Stan
    Jane Fonda was one of the few famous people that openly did something to protest the war in Viet Nam....
    She traveled to North Viet Nam and allowed herself to be filmed viewing the US Bomb damage......
    She has guts & I support her 100 %.......

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Maia Gabrial, why would you post such a hate filled email? How does this serve anyone? All ordinary people were manipulated into this war with the Gulf of Tolkin incident. Since then we have witnessed other wars started to benefit those who always benefit from wars and who are gearing up to start WWWIII. This email only works as a disinfo tactic to gain spiteful support for more war.

    Below are some common fact checking sites for your use. We all get some emails we need to check before adding to the rumor mill.

    http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...m#.UhT_2uCf_zI
    http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/11/blame-jane-falsehoods/
    Last edited by grannyfranny100; 21st August 2013 at 18:14. Reason: provide helpful resoures

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    Avalon Member Maia Gabrial's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Don't presume to know what's in my mind, arunuk. Let me get this up front now: I'm against ALL wars. And I've spoken against them here on the forum enough times. I feel remorse for all the victims of any wars. When the time comes, I'll support making all wars illegal.

    As I see it, the biggest victims are Americans who believed the lies of a corrupt govt. As we all know now, it was always about the bank accounts of the rich. So, we are all victimized....

    However, to have this treacherous viper sashay into enemy country WHILE American soldiers were imprisoned and tortured in those places, is unforgivable. Ask HER what she was trying to prove. It was a clear conscious act when she gave their notes to the commandant, knowing full well that she was betraying those who were reaching out for her help. What kind of person does that make HER? You can bet that there are very few, if any Vietnam veterans who look kindly upon Jane Fonda. The hate her, rightfully so....

    It's downright insulting to honor someone who betrayed her fellow countrymen in the ways she has. And btw Obama's acts in office are considered treachery, too. Funny, how one traitor is honoring another....

    I'll tell you why I posted this. So, Americans DON'T forget her role in this. Fonda's direct involvement helped murder our pow's; or make their lives even more torturous than it had to be. She KNEW what she was doing. So, she has nothing to hold against any American soldier who did what they thought was their duty to country. Can't say the same for this viper.

    But I'll tell you, let not history hold this traitor in honor. To do so, would dishonor the REAL great women of the century....
    Last edited by Maia Gabrial; 21st August 2013 at 18:13.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Quote Posted by grannyfranny100 (here)
    Maia Gabrial, why would you post such a hate filled email? How does this serve anyone? All ordinary people were manipulated into this war with the Gulf of Tolkin incident. Since then we have witnessed other wars started to benefit those who always benefit from wars and who are gearing up to start WWWIII. This email only works as a disinfo tactic to gain spiteful support for more war.

    Below are some common fact checking sites for your use. We all get some emails we need to check before adding to the rumor mill.

    http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...m#.UhT_2uCf_zI
    http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/11/blame-jane-falsehoods/
    I know Jane Fonda (not BF but have worked together before). She is very committed to whatever she is focused on. She is not particularly warm and fuzzy but remembers people's names and is not a "Star" who demands unreasonable praise or anything. She is about the work at hand.

    I think it is odd considering we all have had chapters in life that we may be tagged with an incident forever. Why should Jane Fonda even need forgiveness? Does that mean we are all to be needing the world's forgiveness for what we did in the past? Famous figures from Mother Theresa to.... (name someone) have been tarred as well as praised by people who never met them?

    My brother was not a Viet Nam Vet and as a teenager, was absolutely enraged about Jane Fonda. I never could understand why because he was not a pro-military kind of young man. I think he was unduly enraged by something about an archetype? She has had that kind of effect on many.

    This is the cult of personality. I know the famous (who care about fame) say all publicity is good if one wants the public eye.

    Then articles above in GF's post show that the extremes of vilification are unwarranted. From what I know, Ms Fonda would be puzzled that she warranted a new post here becaue she has moved on and on and on in her interests and concerns.
    I also wonder not so much at the projection of rage but the precipitating cause today? Oh, I see, it was a forward from someone.
    Last edited by Delight; 21st August 2013 at 19:16.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Quote She KNEW what she was doing
    You are presuming to know her mind, as you admonished someone for doing it to you.

    I am not certain of her intent (& don't really care) and have no dog in this in fight, I am just wondering what's to be learned? I understand you are upset with the story as it's told in your presentation...so you are hoping the few peopling "honoring" (or who care about) Jane Fonda know how dishonorable she is?

    Seems like just more divisive nonsense to me...but maybe I'm missing something?

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    United States Avalon Member NancyV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    All the older vets I know, including my present husband who joined the Army and was active special forces in Vietnam and my first husband who joined the Marine Corp and fought in Vietnam, HATE Jane Fonda with a passion that will probably never lessen. Unless you really know what she actually did and said when she was in North Vietnam, supporting her just because she was generally anti-war is very short sighted and uninformed.

    One of the reasons we went to war in Vietnam, other than the obvious war-as-profit and fear of communism motives, is that we were a signatory to SEATO (South East Asian Treaty Organization) which provided a good excuse for us to take over from the French after they left. At that time, in the 50's, we were actively fighting the spread of communism, which is also why we were in the Korean war (ostensibly). It would be hard to argue that the North Koreans, under a communist dictator, are today better off and more free than the South Koreans.

    North Vietnam was communist, Ho Chi Minh was a brutal dictator who killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, chased the French out and then moved to take over South Vietnam. Right or wrong the US entered the war after being there as "advisers" to the South Vietnam forces when the French left. While we were supposedly there as advisers our soldiers fought. My first husband was there and engaged in battle in 1963-4, a year or two before we admitted to being anything but advisers. Of course the government lied all the time and still does.

    Jane Fonda, by supporting the North Vietnamese and betraying American soldiers, was supporting one of the most brutal communist regimes in SE Asia and the murderous dictator, Ho Chi Minh. She was young, naive, stupid and made a huge mistake in judgement which Vets and those of us who know what she did will not forget. She should have been executed as a traitor who gave aid and comfort to the enemy.

    As soon as we left Vietnam the north swooped in and proceeded to kill off most politicians, military, and many others. Of course to convert the entire country to communism, Ho Chi Mihn style, hundreds of thousands were sent to "re-education" camps and many died. It was brutal but not unexpected since we know how communism is spread from many examples throughout the decades.

    Jane Fonda supported this. She will not be forgiven and although I don't waste my energy hating her I consider her to be beneath contempt. I will not be watching the movie where she is portraying Nancy Reagan and I'm sure many thousands of vets will be boycotting it. Even if I detest and do not trust the government in general and hate the lies about why we engage in a particular war, that does not mean I agree with or like our so called enemies. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend. Apparently Jane Fonda was too stupid to do a bit of simple research about the atrocities the North Vietnamese government was engaged in or she was just one of the many abysmally ignorant and brain dead idiots who automatically consider an enemy of the government they hate to be a friend.
    Alpha Mike Foxtrot

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    For those too young to remember Fonda went to North Viet Nam right after Nixon

    bombed innocent civilians in Hanoi in an attempt to get North Vietnam to step back.....

    I think the OP might just hates women and Fonda is as good a target as any to focus his rage......

    PS: Both the Korean war & the Viet Nam war were planned years in advance.
    Read JFK by Fletcher Priorty for the info...
    Last edited by marlowe; 21st August 2013 at 20:25.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    I'm not one for defending Jane Fonda, but why so much energy demonizing an actress? The money she makes and destruction she is responsible for pales compared to say, Iran Contra...and everyone involved with that continues to get high profile work (if not cabinet positions) to this day.

    It's amazing our (emotional) energy is so easily diverted to silly distractions (no offense to Vietnam vets, f*** that horrible traitor and all that, but....), I just wish people got stirred up this much over the traitors in leadership roles instead of just celebrities.

    C'mon Nancy...executed....not forgiven? How bout forgiven, then forgotten, and not waste ANY energy on even thinking about her? I can't read her mind, but i doubt her intent was for Americans to be tortured and murderered...maybe I'm wrong, and I apologize if I am, for all I know she swam in the blood of tortured US soldiers, but one ignorant woman's actions should not somehow be tied into us foreign policy or associated with anyone else's love of country (if you're into that whole patriotism thing).

    It's a (washed up) movie star who did some horrible stupid ****. Dick Cheney, Ollie North, and company appreciate all the emotional energy diverted in that direction

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    United States Avalon Member sirdipswitch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Those who do not know forgiveness, do not understand unconditional Love.

    The unconditional Love of Source. The same unconditional love that I... and Source... hold for Jane...

    and YOU...
    Love, Peace, Humor
    sirdipswitch


    " A little knowledge, is a dangerous thing... so is a lot."
    - Albert Einstein -

    "Please, Do NOT, believe a word that I say, for this is my journey not yours. Go do your own research. Listen to no-one. Find YOUR own Truth. As "I" did." "It is all just a Game, play it as you will."
    -sirdipswitch-

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    I'm sorry but Jane was married to Ted Turner and Ted is bigtime Illuminati.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    I guess I have a dog here because I personally have interacted with this icon who is a real woman to me. I am no longer an activist because I no longer believe in activism. I have friends now who thinking they are helping do things without full awareness of the big picture ACT. There is never a winner in war and all sides are mistaken. The North Vietnamese, South Vietnamese, French, Americans and the world lost in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Lots of people are still suffering. Jane Fonda is not, so in a way, my post is ludicrous but like I said...I have a dog....

    Quote That Vietnam photograph has followed Fonda ever since -- and she has apologized for it publicly and privately many times over. In this clip from an episode of "Oprah's Master Class," she does so once again, calling her appearance in the photo "an unforgivable mistake" and sharing the details of how the photograph happened in the first place.

    In the clip, Fonda explains that she was taken to a North Vietnam military site on the last day of her visit, even though she did not want to go. "I was an emotional wreck by [then]," she remembers. "I don't know if I was set up or not. I was an adult. I take responsibility for my actions."

    That's when a small ceremony began. "These soldiers sang a song; I sang a song in feeble Vietnamese," she says. "Everyone was laughing. I was led to a gun site and I sat down. And I was laughing and clapping, and there were pictures taken."

    As Fonda walked away from the site, she suddenly realized how those pictures would look to the rest of the world. "I understand the anger about that," she admits.

    Years later, Fonda arranged to meet privately with a group of Vietnam veterans. Some of the veterans had attended the meeting eager to confront the woman they considered a traitor, and to fully express their hostility. Fonda remembers one man in particular. "[He had been with] the Delta death squad and he had an ace of spades," she says. "That was the card that would be thrown when he was going to kill someone, and he brought it with him [to the meeting]. He was intending to challenge me and throw it at my feet."

    In the clip, Fonda reveals what happened during the meeting -- including how the man ended up tearing up his ace of spades and throwing it in the trash. "I don't mean that every single man there suddenly was 'fond of Fonda,'" she says. "But there was a lot of healing."

    The moving experience taught Fonda a life lesson that extends beyond the Vietnam controversy. "We have to listen to each other, even when we don't agree, even when we think we hate each other," she says. "I learned so much from that meeting. It was a very difficult thing to do and it was one of the best things that I ever did in my life. Look what scares you in the face and try to understand it. Empathy, I have learned, is revolutionary." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2994929.html
    Last edited by Delight; 21st August 2013 at 20:52.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    I'm not one for defending Jane Fonda, but why so much energy demonizing an actress? The money she makes and destruction she is responsible for pales compared to say, Iran Contra...and everyone involved with that continues to get high profile work (if not cabinet positions) to this day.

    It's amazing our (emotional) energy is so easily diverted to silly distractions (no offense to Vietnam vets, f*** that horrible traitor and all that, but....), I just wish people got stirred up this much over the traitors in leadership roles instead of just celebrities.

    C'mon Nancy...executed....not forgiven? How bout forgiven, then forgotten, and not waste ANY energy on even thinking about her? I can't read her mind, but i doubt her intent was for Americans to be tortured and murderered...maybe I'm wrong, and I apologize if I am, for all I know she swam in the blood of tortured US soldiers, but one ignorant woman's actions should not somehow be tied into us foreign policy or associated with anyone else's love of country (if you're into that whole patriotism thing).

    It's a (washed up) movie star who did some horrible stupid ****. Dick Cheney, Ollie North, and company appreciate all the emotional energy diverted in that direction
    Sure there were others who did a lot worse than Hanoi Jane, but this thread is about her so that's what I responded to. I agree, Donk, that a lot of energy should not be wasted on her, but we all choose individually which games get our attention and energy.

    I suppose an execution NOW would not be good timing, but back then it would have been quite agreeable to me. I am not anti death penalty. As a matter of fact she was going to be terminated in a secret op but that op went awry, that is IF my husband told me the truth about it, since he very personally knew the team that was sent to do the job. Since it was a "secret" op, we'll never know for sure, but it made a good story.
    Alpha Mike Foxtrot

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Think about this way: we are forming "sides" around an individual's actions

    From the opinions I read: one team feels like she supported the "other side" in a war. The other team feels she was doing something to help efforts to end the war (I feel misguided & extremely ignorantly, though if I had to guess, I believe this was her--or her PR guys'--intent)

    False conclusions from crappy (and probably mostly intentionally distorted) information about emotionally charged false moral issue effectively dividing otherwise rational people.

    Don't let this dumb **** (further) divide us
    Last edited by donk; 21st August 2013 at 21:36.

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Just to clarify:

    I believe from the limited stock footage/reportage I have seen and the opinions that I have read (throughout the last decade or so, relatively nicely capsulated here) that Jane Fonda’s ACTIONS were in attempt to protest war by humanizing the “enemy”.

    Also, that the resulting “stunts” were poorly conceived, executed, and ultimately evenly directly harmful to some US POWs.

    I do not know if it is useful to attempt to analyze JF’s personal responsibility (through investigating any evidence we might find indicating her true intentions) in the torture and death of the mentioned unfortunate souls, I am sure it is to those personally directly involved in their lives. I am not certain that examining whether her appearances with the North Vietnamese were part of deliberate psy-op used to sway public opinion would be particularly useful, though it probably is of great interest to those studying the history of that time period and/or sociology.

    ...But what I am sure of is this: YOU do not know for certain her thoughts, her feelings, her TRUE intent…so just hating her and spreading hate for her will not serve anyone, and may not be so good on your constitution. The email above does very little besides that, it is a message of fear...I wonder if the story could be turned around to one of love...cuz I agree with grip: she needs love…like we all do…

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    Quote Posted by NancyV (here)
    I suppose an execution NOW would not be good timing, but back then it would have been quite agreeable to me. I am not anti death penalty. As a matter of fact she was going to be terminated in a secret op but that op went awry, that is IF my husband told me the truth about it, since he very personally knew the team that was sent to do the job. Since it was a "secret" op, we'll never know for sure, but it made a good story.
    I suppose it is a good thing for all involved that assassination went awry. I believe vendetta (an often prolonged series of retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts or exchange of such acts) is on the same wave length as karma. Pay back is a female dog that bites whoever gets close.

    Certainly something in principle is looking different than the when in the real life event? Idealists are very dangerous in the chasm between the Ideal and the means. Personally I NEVER believed in killing for any reason.

    Part of my suffering from the Vietnam War was its TV coverage and the way the killing so incensed me that I projected the anger on the soldiers. I saw later they were victims as those enlisting now are victimized a different way feeling war is a way OUT of poverty (Want a job kids.....)

    Would you be willing to throw the switch at the electrocution or push the plunger on the death drugs (and ACTION is the thing that defines the true belief, not armchair blather) or if personally involved, would you have a different understanding?

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda, the Traitor No One Should Forget

    I think it would be beneficial to ignore this thread and focus on something of love not hate.

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