Please watch the Galen Winsor Nuclear Scare Scam lectures

[nonesuch]

Just throwing this into the mix. Several years ago, maybe 2004, I was friends with a woman here in Santa Fe whose husband, a scientist, was in the process of retiring from Los Alamos Labs. I met him at their home over dinner one night and after we ate I got to talking to him in his study about many topics including nuclear energy. I don't recall many of the details of our tal or how I came to ask him about the problem of nuclear waste and the incredibly long time it would affect the planet.

I wasn't accusatory or taking a stance against him in any way, though I was withholding my point of view from him so that I might get some inside information he wouldn't be forthcoming about otherwise. Though he was intelligent snf liberal, he indicated with a couple comments that he was not friendly to protests against his chosen profession.

In answer to my question about nuclear waste, he told me rather casually that they'd already figured out an effective way to deactivate nuclear waste years ago and it was no longer a problem. I was shocked, but didn't have the state of mind to ask him why in hell's name that knowledge wasn't applied in the world. My Libran diplomacy was in full swing as I was somewhat horrified to be talking to the 'enemy' but didn't want to shut down the discussion by picketing his study.

There was no drama or defensiveness in his answer. Besides, nuclear energy wasn't the focus of his work. He was more interested in telling me about his pet project he was presenting to the top honchos on how to extract water from the atmosphere. It was pretty grandiose, but it was clearly real project. He took the time to draw models of how it would work and he was totally enthusiastic about the prospects of them being approved for development. I have no idea if it was top secret. It didn't seem to be and I never followed up with him about any of what we talked about, since we never became friends.

I watched all of part one of the Galen video. Though I know nearly nothing about the science of nuclear energy, I gathered from his video (that i'll watch again to verify) that the kind of radiation he exposed himself to was possibly a form that wasn't interacting in some way with other elements or processes that would make it dangerous. It wasn't the main thrust of his presentation though.

I believe he was telling the truth. He demonstrated on stage that he could touch and eat substances with levels of radiation we are led to believe by government and industry would kill everyone within a mile's radius. I don't know what to make of his ideas, since there are so many many people who have developed cancer or given birth to affected children as the result of exposure to nuclear radiation through accidents. I couldn't come up with a motive (other than speaker's fees) to present lies about real nuclear dangers that could get him in hot water with the industry he'd been involved with for years.

So, maybe there ARE ways to completely neutralize the dangers of nuclear radiation that the industry/government is not sharing with the public. Certainly, if the public found out that most of their fears about nuclear waste, war and bombs were created by lies, they'd be as angry as many are about the NSA's massive abuses of power.

It would be a paradigm shifter that would relax the entire planet if nuclear waste and contamination were no longer a problem. I'd welcome that new reality with open arms.

While there is obvious and proven dangers from the nuclear radiation we're exposed to, that doesn't exclude the possibility that solutions are already known and are not being applied for the good of all. Those who are not releasing solutions for use in the world have the most to gain from keeping it secret (money and power) and the most to lose (poverty, prison and death) if the world caught on to another layer of their institutionalized crimes against humanity.

[Kimberley]

thank you Nonesuch... your line of thinking resonates with my line of thinking...

Time will tell...won"t it???

unfortunately... now that Bil has left this thread there are not many interested in it...although at least a few hundred have listened to Galen...and the seeds have been planted...that is all I/we can do and it is FUN!!! :-) woohooo howwwyyy WOWWWWIIYY!

[TargeT]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
it's almost impossible to square what he says with my understanding of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of straight-on, unbiased scientific studies that conclude exactly the opposite.

Could you please link 1 test that involved humans out of those hundreds (of thousands??) of tests?

You are making statements here that will be weighed far beyond those I and many others on this forum could ever make & I think backing them up is very important.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Tens (of not hundreds) of thousands of people who lived near Chernobyl died of something. That data, and the images of the victims, are not faked or falsified. Even allowing for a distortion factor of ten (which is a lot!) -- there is a problem there.

Can you please link where your data came from for this comment?

The most commonly quoted sources for these Chernobyl numbers is 1 book,

a book which claims that 985,000 people have died as a result of the disaster.[/U] Translated from Russian and published by the Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, this is the only document that looks scientific and appears to support the wild claims made by greens about Chernobyl.

A devastating review in the journal Radiation Protection Dosimetry points out that the book achieves this figure by the remarkable method of assuming that all increased deaths from a wide range of diseases – including many which have no known association with radiation – were caused by the Chernobyl accident. There is no basis for this assumption, not least because screening in many countries improved dramatically after the disaster and, since 1986, there have been massive changes in the former eastern bloc. The study makes no attempt to correlate exposure to radiation with the incidence of disease.

Its publication seems to have arisen from a confusion about whether Annals was a book publisher or a scientific journal. The academy has given me this statement: "In no sense did Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences or the New York Academy of Sciences commission this work; nor by its publication do we intend to independently validate the claims made in the translation or in the original publications cited in the work. The translated volume has not been peer reviewed by the New York Academy of Sciences, or by anyone else."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...y-misled-world

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
A well-attested and witnessed public case is that of the Russian Nuclear submarine the K-19, which experienced a critical reactor accident in 1961.

this is sort of off topic isn't it?

You do understand what is being said in this thread (and many others) is that low levels of radiation are not bad for you, and in-fact are good for you..

low levels does not include active nuclear reactor chambers, the seamen on K-19 were exposed to doses that would be considered some of the highest doses possible; literally millions of times above the levels that are being discussed by this and many other threads.

Maybe you misunderstood the thrust of the thread but mixing that type of example in is very misleading.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by TargeT (here)
You do understand what is being said in this thread (and many others) is that low levels of radiation are not bad for you, and in-fact are good for you.

I suspect that some of those posting here are being read as having written that pretty much any level of radiation is good for you, or at least relatively harmless, while others of those posting here are being read as having written that pretty much any level is bad for you. In both such cases, there is a tendency for such a reader to respond with a post that says "No ... the opposite can be true as well." Then in each such case, there is a tendency for those responding posts to be read as overly broad to the point of being incorrect in the opposite direction.

Fear mongering tactics by the bastards in power, alongside and in parallel with cover-up tactics by some of the same ilk, have polarized this discussion (that, or either the presence of too much, or the absence of sufficient, radiation has damaged our brains .)

In short, and in more concrete terms, I'll wager that Bill presented his submarine example to counter what he read as overly broad defense of the safety of, even benefits of, radiation. Granted, I have flunked out of Bill-mind-reading school many times now, so I could easily be wrong.

In my view, not all warnings of radiation are "nuclear scare scams", and in particular, it is not yet demonstrated one way or the other to my satisfaction whether warnings of present or potential radiation from Fukushima are so misguided.

If someone was able to post some reasonably well evidenced measures of the various amounts of radiation being caused by Fukushima, or that could reasonably be caused by Fukushima in the event of further meltdowns, to various living beings, near and far from there, and if someone could relate those various levels to some reasonably well evidenced measures of what levels of radiation are inconsequential/beneficial/ambivalent/harmful to various living beings ... that I could find useful reading.

But I am finding discussions of the following form less useful:

• (Written as) "No, it's not always black ... it can be white." (Read as) "It's white."
• (Written as) No, it's not always white ... it can be black." (Read as) "It's black."

Thank-you, TargeT, for qualifying your statements as you have done, to refer to some levels having benefits. I have little doubt that you are right in that.

[Carmody]

Hot particles are an issue, as they come from things like depleted uranium. Ingestion of hot particles can create a local area in the body which is under continual high exposure levels, which can very likely lead to cancer's beginnings in the given local exposure area. ie, adjacent cells to that hot particle.

The given Hot particle may not really even show itself as a reading of any kind, when scanning things like a human body, but the particle is definitely there, deep in the body.

Materials that have been exposed to radiation, like fluids, and then have no hot particles, are maybe possible to consider as being - less of an issue.

[Carmody]

Posted by nonesuch (here)

In answer to my question about nuclear waste, he told me rather casually that they'd already figured out an effective way to deactivate nuclear waste years ago and it was no longer a problem. I was shocked, but didn't have the state of mind to ask him why in hell's name that knowledge wasn't applied in the world. My Libran diplomacy was in full swing as I was somewhat horrified to be talking to the 'enemy' but didn't want to shut down the discussion by picketing his study.

Find my posts about Brown's gas and radiation.

This will show one known way to completely deactivate radioactive materials. I explicitly state HOW it is done. (in at least a few of the posts)

It is being HELD BACK AND BLOCKED, as the technology involved changes the fundamentals of human existence..and gives all of us an opening into universal knowledge and knowing, immense amounts of personal power, and total energy independence from all control schemes that can be erected in this world.

[TargeT]

Posted by Paul (here)
[ I'll wager that Bill presented his submarine example to counter what he read as overly broad defense of the safety of, even benefits of, radiation. Granted, I have flunked out of Bill-mind-reading school many times now, so I could easily be wrong.

I'm sure this is (close) to what happened; the polarity being seen is just a bi-product of strongly held beliefs being challenged.. Rationality is the first casualty.

Posted by Carmody (here)
Hot particles are an issue, as they come from things like depleted uranium. .

DU is dangerous because it is a heavy metal & if it is absorbed somehow into the blood stream (via the lungs is possible) you will get heavy metal poisoning, or a Kinetic danger, if a round is fired at you..

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Posted by Carmody (here)
K-19:
Kathryn Bigelow makes a dramatic and interesting film which is as accurate as possible, and gets panned for it. Film loses money.


Hurt Locker:
Kathryn Bigelow makes a dramatic and interesting film which is incredibly absurd, physically inaccurate, and as militarily and scenario-wise impossible as can be, and wins an academy award for it.

Lesson: in the public eye, over amped garbage ---wins.

the Bigelow name is one to take note of...

[meat suit]

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by nonesuch (here)

In answer to my question about nuclear waste, he told me rather casually that they'd already figured out an effective way to deactivate nuclear waste years ago and it was no longer a problem. I was shocked, but didn't have the state of mind to ask him why in hell's name that knowledge wasn't applied in the world. My Libran diplomacy was in full swing as I was somewhat horrified to be talking to the 'enemy' but didn't want to shut down the discussion by picketing his study.

Find my posts about Brown's gas and radiation.

This will show one known way to completely deactivate radioactive materials. I explicitly state HOW it is done. (in at least a few of the posts)

It is being HELD BACK AND BLOCKED, as the technology involved changes the fundamentals of human existence..and gives all of us an opening into universal knowledge and knowing, immense amounts of personal power, and total energy independence from all control schemes that can be erected in this world.

found it I think
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...oad....for-60M

[Dawn]

As far as the health effects of low dose radiation goes, who knows. I would not want to purposely expose myself to any level of radiation beyond the background level. But I've been to radium hotsprings and I can say that it was certainly therapeutic. Personally, I'd rather take mud baths. They are amazing!

This fear factor was with me most of my life and I could have summed up the beliefs I was programmed with as an exact match to this quote.

However I have since delved into this knowledge rather deeply and found that we have all been fed lies about radiation. It is rather like sunshine.... a certain amount is critical to health... but too much is bad for you.

I have embarked on a healing modality, with terrific results so far, which involves deliberate exposure to levels of radiation which can be found in uranium rich ores, stones, and glass. I have an open thread here on Avalon about it.

There is a LOT of information to suggest that we are UNDEREXPOSED to enough radiation to have maximum health. If you would like to broaden your mind try going here for links to books, articles, videos, and audio lectures: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Dose-Radiation

[sdv]

I am not indulging in fear mongering nor do I have ardent anti-nuclear energy beliefs.

However, people (the word I use for human beings) are flawed, apt to make mistakes, vulnerable to corruption and evil, and, scarily, often incompetent. When there is an accident in a nuclear power facility, the consequences are bad for those who are unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and not lucky enough to accidentally be far enough away from or shielded from that unexpected explosion(plenty of proof for this statement). What happened at Fukishima was an accident of nature, exacerbated by the behaviour of people.

How can you say for certain what level of radiation is not harmful to, does not cause suffering to life in the sea around this accident? What gives us the right to make these kind of decisions for tuna, et al? How can you say for certain that the radiation leaking from Fukishima will not have an alarming (for life on earth) effect on the atmosphere, the land around the plant and the underlying geology of that area?

I am in a safe zone and am only possibly at risk from eating sealife, but I would rather that this mess gets cleaned up ASAP without question than ask the sealife, the atmosphere and the earth to take the risk that my beliefs (if they were my beliefs) that all radiation is not harmful are right. To me, treating this as urgent is the right thing to do and not about fear mongering or conspiracy theories. Action does not have to suppress intellectual debate, but intellectual debate should never motivate to suppress action if not acting could cause harm that we do not have full understanding of.

Can folks on this forum hold the paradox of being an activist for immediate global action to clean up the mess at Fukishima and intellectually debate the evidence of proof regarding the harmful effects of radiation, at the same time? That is what my call is.

[Atlas]

Posted by sdv (here)
Can folks on this forum hold the paradox of being an activist for immediate global action to clean up the mess at Fukishima and intellectually debate the evidence of proof regarding the harmful effects of radiation, at the same time? That is what my call is.

Hi sdv, I posted this on the Fukushima thread but I think it is relevant here too:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
...we can't take this unique case to mean that everyone else is quite wrong and that there's a vast conspiracy to convince us that radiation is dangerous...

HOW DANGEROUS IS RADIATION?

Radiation consists of several types of subatomic particles, principally those called gamma rays, neutrons, electrons, and alpha particles, that shoot through space at very high speeds, something like 100,000 miles per second. They can easily penetrate deep inside the human body, damaging some of the biological cells of which the body is composed.

But before we shed too many tears for the poor fellow who was struck by one of these particles of radiation, it should be pointed out that every person in the world is struck by about 15,000 of these particles of radiation every second of his or her life […] These particles, totalling 500 billion per year, or 40 trillion in a lifetime, are from natural sources. In addition, our technology has introduced new sources of radiation like medical X-rays — a typical X-ray bombards us with over a trillion particles of radiation.

In order to discuss radiation exposure quantitatively, we must introduce the unit in which it is measured, called the millirem, abbreviated mrem. One millirem of exposure corresponds to being struck by approximately 7 billion particles of radiation

We frequently hear stories about incidents in which the public is exposed to radiation; radioactive material falling off a truck; contaminated water leaking out of a tank or seeping out of a waste burial ground; a radioactive source used for materials inspection being temporarily misplaced; malfunctions in nuclear plants leading to releases of radioactivity; and so on.

The thing I always look for in these stories is the radiation exposure in millirems, but it is hardly ever given. Eventually it appears in a technical journal, or I trace it down by calls to health officials. On a very few occasions it has been as high as 5-10 mrem, but in the great majority of cases it has been less than 1 mrem. In the Three Mile Island accident, average exposures in the surrounding area were 1.2 mrem — this drew the one-word banner headline "RADIATION" in a Boston newspaper.

In the supposed leaks of radioactivity from a low-level waste burial ground near Moorhead, Kentucky, there were no exposures as high as 0.1 mrem; yet this was the subject of a three-part series in a Philadelphia newspaper bearing headlines "It's Spilling All Over the U.S.," "Nuclear Grave is Haunting KY," and "There's No Place to Hide." In the highly publicized leak from a nuclear power plant near Rochester, New York, in 1982, no member of the public was exposed to as much as 0.3 mrem. Yet this was the top news story on TV network evening news for two days.

We are constantly bombarded from above by cosmic rays showering down on us from outer space, hitting us with 30 mrem per year; from below by radioactive materials like uranium, potassium, and thorium in the ground — 20 mrem/year; from all sides by radiation from the walls of our buildings (brick, stone, and plaster are derived from the ground) — l0 mrem/year; and from within, due to the radioactivity in our bodies (mostly potassium) — 25 mrem/year. All of these combined give us a total average dose of about 85 mrem per year from natural sources, or 1 mrem every 4 days. Thus, radiation exposures in the above mentioned highly publicized incidents are no more than what the average person receives every few days from these natural sources.

Diagnostic X-rays are our second largest source of whole body exposure. A dental X-ray gives us about 1 mrem, and a chest X-ray gives us about 6 mrem, but nearly all other X-rays give far higher exposures9: pelvis, 90 mrem; abdomen, 150 mrem; spine, 400 mrem; barium enema, 800 mrem. Often a series of X-rays is taken, giving total exposures of several thousand millirems. The average American gets about 80 mrem per year from this source, 80 times the exposure in the highly publicized radiation incidents.

There are several trivial sources of whole body radiation that give us about 1 mrem: an average year of TV viewing, from the X-rays emitted by television picture tubes; a year of wearing a luminous dial watch, since the luminosity comes from radioactive materials; and a coast-to-coast airline flight, because the high altitude increases exposure to cosmic rays. Each of these activities involves about the same radiation exposure as the highly publicized incidents.

All of the above-listed sources bombard all organs of our body, but the most important source of our exposure to radiation is radon gas in our homes […] About 5% of us, 12 million Americans, get more than 1,000 mrem per year, and perhaps 2 million Americans get over 2,000 mrem per year from radon. In a few houses, exposures have been found to be as high as 500,000 mrem per year.

How dangerous is 1 mrem of radiation? [...] in most situations, for each millirem of radiation we receive, our risk of dying from cancer is increased by about 1 chance in 4 million. This is the result arrived at independently by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences Committee on Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation and the United Nations Scientific Committee on Effects of Atomic Radiation. The International Commission on Radiological Protection has always accepted estimates by these prestigious groups, as has the U.S. National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements, the British National Radiological Protection Board, and similar groups charged with radiation protection in all technologically advanced nations.

This risk corresponds to a reduction in our life expectancy by 2 minutes. A similar reduction in our life expectancy is caused by

• crossing streets 5 times (based on the average probability of being killed while crossing a street)
• taking a few puffs on a cigarette (each cigarette smoked reduces life expectancy by l0 minutes)
• an overweight person eating 20 extra calories (e.g., a quarter of a slice of bread and butter)
• driving an extra 5 miles in an automobile

There has been intermittent publicity over the years about the fact that nuclear power plants, as a result of minor malfunctions or even in routine operation, occasionally release small amounts of radioactivity into the environment. As a result, people living very close to a plant receive about 1 mrem per year of extra radiation exposure. From the above example we see that, if moving away increases their commuting automobile travel by more than 5 miles per year (25 yards per day), or requires that they cross a street more than one extra time every 8 weeks, it is safer to live next to the nuclear plant, at least from the standpoint of routine radiation exposure.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We now turn to the question of why the public became so irrationally fearful of radiation. Probably the most important reason is the gross overcoverage of radiation stories by television, magazines, and newspapers. Constantly hearing stories about radiation as a hazard gave people the subconscious impression that it was something to worry about.

We often heard about "deadly radiation" or "lethal radioactivity," referring to a hazard that hadn't claimed a single victim for over a decade, and had caused less than five deaths in American history. But we never heard about "lethal electricity," although 1,200 Americans were dying each year from electrocution; or about "lethal natural gas," which was killing 500 annually with asphyxiation accidents.

A more important problem with TV stories about radiation was that they never quantified the risk. I can understand their not giving doses in millirem — that may have been too technical for their audience — but they could have easily compared exposures with natural radiation or medical X-rays. In the 1982 accident at the Rochester power plant, which was the top story on the network evening news for two days, wouldn't it have been useful to tell the public that no one received as much exposure from that accident as he or she was receiving every day from natural sources?

It was my impression that TV people considered the official committees of scientific experts to be tools of the nuclear industry rather than objective experts. […] To believe that nearly all of these scientists were somehow involved in a sinister plot to deceive the public indeed challenges the imagination.

For those who can't understand why television excessively covered and distorted information about the hazards of radiation, I believe it was because their primary concern is entertainment rather than education. One point in the ratings for the network evening news is worth $11 million per year in advertising revenue. In that atmosphere, what would happen to a TV producer who decided to concentrate on properly educating the public rather than entertaining it?

As an illustration of the low priority the networks place on their educational function, I doubt if there are more than one or two Ph.D. level scientists in the full-time employ of any television network, in spite of the fact that they are the primary source of science education for the public. Even a strictly liberal arts college with no interest in training scientists typically has one Ph.D.-level scientist for every 200 students, whereas the networks have practically none for their 200 million students.

If TV producers took their role of educating the public seriously, they would have considered it their function to transmit scientific information from the scientific community to the public. But this they didn't do. They wanted to decide what to transmit, which means that they made judgments on scientific issues. When I brought this to their attention, they always said that the scientific community was split on the issue of dangers from radiation. […] Their position was that, since the scientific community was split, they had no way to find out what the scientific consensus was.

My strong impression was that they weren't really interested in what scientists had concluded. They were only after a story that would arouse viewer interest. Clearly, a scare story about the dangers of radiation serves this purpose best.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because of the factors we have been discussing and perhaps some others, the public has become irrational over fear of radiation. Its understanding of radiation dangers has virtually lost all contact with the actual dangers as understood by scientists.

Perhaps the best example of this was the howl of public protest when plans were announced more than a year after the accident at Three Mile Island to release the radioactive gas that had been sealed inside the containment structure of the damaged reactor. This was important so that some of the safety systems could be serviced, and it was obviously necessary before recovery work could begin.

Releasing this gas would expose no one to as much as 1 mrem, and the exposure to most of the protesters would be a hundred times less. Simply traveling to a protest meeting exposed the attenders to far more danger than release of the gas; moreover, an appreciable number fled the area, traveling a hundred miles or more, at the time of the release.

Recall that 1 mrem of radiation has the same risk as driving 5 miles or crossing a street five times on foot. Needless to say, the statements of fear by the protesters were transmitted to the national TV audience with no accompanying evidence that their fears were irrational.

One disheartening aspect of that episode was the effort by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) to handle it. An early survey of the local citizenry revealed that there was substantial fear of the release of the gas. The NRC therefore undertook a large program of public education, explaining how trivial the health risks were. When this public education campaign was completed, another poll of the local citizenry was taken. It showed that the public's fear was greater than it was before the campaign. The public's reaction on matters of radiation defied all rational explanation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When a particle of radiation penetrates a cell, the damage it does may cause the cell to die. If enough cells in a body organ die, the organ may cease to function, and this can lead to a person's death by what is termed radiation sickness. A dose of 500,000 mrem received over a short time period gives about a 50% risk of death, and with 1,000,000 mrem this risk is 100% unless there is heroic medical intervention, as by bone marrow transplants. After such an intense exposure, loss of hair, swelling, and vomiting are typical symptoms. If death does not occur within 30 days, the victim normally recovers fully.

(source: phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter5)

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Notice:

• Collective dose estimates are about 800-1800 person-Sv to most affected population, and perhaps several times that to greater surrounding population
• Chernobyl ~255,000 person-Sv

• Deaths due to earthquake/tsunami: ~25,000
• Deaths or serious injuries due to direct radiation exposures: 0

• Cancer deaths due to accumulated radiation exposures: can’t be ruled out – conservative risk estimates ~100s cases, against an expected ~10 million cases
• At this level, projected increase in cancer mortality would be ~0.001% above the natural rate

[778 neighbour of some guy]

In my view, not all warnings of radiation are "nuclear scare scams", and in particular, it is not yet demonstrated one way or the other to my satisfaction whether warnings of present or potential radiation from Fukushima are so misguided.

I understand very well how an opposite view can be mistaken for "pro nuclear") and I want by no means be mistaken as such, your post and this sentence just stuck in my head, so I have not yet read the whole thread to the last post, and have no clue how far this floated up the river yet.

And I don't really know how to put this into thought and text in a very concrete way, so I am basically just having a swing at it, but the subject , the discussion and just about anything around it has a very odd aura around it if you know what I mean.

And of course not all nuclear scare scams are for real, that part is pretty self evident, but history has shown ( not necessarily about the now discussed subject, the nuclear scare scam) that we have been lied to for whatever reason forever so far because someone benefitted big time, the who is for me personally the least important, the why and what for however are absolutely intriguing and that is exactly why I am so surprised why nations ( could be anybody including Japan )have not intervened big time, even when they would be playing charades to the outside world, they could have taken drastic measures to prevent this sort of calamity ( after the tsunami) ( and now the leaking yechh water)would even occur in the first place, anywho, sh!t has happened big time and that contaminated crap is seeping in the ocean big time for a long long time, even the Japanese would have, should have, could have known, lets not beat around the bush here, they knew, someone would find out anyway anytime soon.

And yet, still, nothing drastic, dramatic, in any form to contain this crap, and this time seriously, to put a stopper on it for once and for all or at least until a more permanent solution was found.

How, how can this be, this stuff, this lethal stuff( we are told) is allowed to radiate into everything in its path, water, people soil, zooplankton, algea, swimmers and four feeters remorseless, take in consideration there are now currently ( when completed) 509 up and running reactors for power production and research and development ( without even mentioning all those scary radiology labs in hospitals, ever been in one?), these 509 reactors, do you actually think, really think, the internal safety protocols ( back ups, automated shutdowns, blahblah) of a nuclear plant would guarantee sufficiently the safety to its developers to make the produced energy marketable?

Well, for the occasion I stand behind this train of though because I am having an excellent day, ok, safety is guaranteed apparently ( it has to be, dead customers cant pay you for the consumption of the power consumed by their sh!tty appliences).

New plants are being build all the time, everywhere..........just the wish of a nation to be independent from oil does not mean it is willing to irradiate its own population to death or crash its own economy when the lights go out.

It has to been worthy of taking the risk for some reason and we are not being the whole truth about this risk, remember, dead customers don't buy jack sh!t, they produce more than nuclear you know, they also produce you sneakers, your smartphone, the elastic in your underpants, these people are in every business you can imagine, so somehow, the chance they are taking must be worth it for some reason, is that because it is low risk in the first place and we can handle the science and perhaps containment when things go wrong and in case things do go wrong, the wrong may be not as bad as we have been told it is?

For some reason I think its a very obvious thing and I could be completely wrong, like with everything else in life just like anybody else, cold war, that's were the origins of this scare are, its roots, big badaboom, bigger badascared and no reason or intention to change that train of thought besides the proliferation of nuclear arms blahblah, " when we start shooting that sh!t at each other we'll be all dead so what's the f@cking point of having it, lets ditch it, deal, yeah man I was thinking the exact same thing, shake on it, put it in writing and lets get a brewski, this gave me a headache, you too?").

So here we go, less nukes, they are dangerous and flying shyte of proportions you would actually not wish to land up on your worst enemy, nobody wants to be a victim of THAT, nobody.

So, there is obviously different kinds of nuclear, boom and light bulbs, what makes burning light bulbs in a contained process apparently so much safer then a terrifying doomsday boombox?

How come, Fukushima is not buried under ten feet of concrete by now, how is this possible, is it because the Japanese are just behaving like two year old dickheads in the denial fase of their your lives? Don't think so, crap leaks out, that's for sure, but they withhold that info so long, why, we would find out anyway, is it as dangerous we have been told, in that case, you better hurry up....to the nearest nuclear plant and start shoveling dirt yourself, because if you don't see a concrete plant next to the reactor site to burry the f@cker instantly in case tshtf, it apparently safe enough without it, how come?? How come?

2 cts

[Carmody]

Posted by meat suit (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by nonesuch (here)

In answer to my question about nuclear waste, he told me rather casually that they'd already figured out an effective way to deactivate nuclear waste years ago and it was no longer a problem. I was shocked, but didn't have the state of mind to ask him why in hell's name that knowledge wasn't applied in the world. My Libran diplomacy was in full swing as I was somewhat horrified to be talking to the 'enemy' but didn't want to shut down the discussion by picketing his study.

Find my posts about Brown's gas and radiation.

This will show one known way to completely deactivate radioactive materials. I explicitly state HOW it is done. (in at least a few of the posts)

It is being HELD BACK AND BLOCKED, as the technology involved changes the fundamentals of human existence..and gives all of us an opening into universal knowledge and knowing, immense amounts of personal power, and total energy independence from all control schemes that can be erected in this world.

found it I think
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...oad....for-60M

Yes, that is the thread and the exact methodology is spelled out in it's entirety.

Research DR. Joe champion. Gold shortage? Precious metals? Transmutation? Basing currencies and wealth on precious metals? Running, ruining, and controlling economies via element resource controls? Precious metals markets will simply END. No shortage of gold, which takes us to the Annunaki gold scenario thing. Mining gold? Creating humans to do so? Meh. not so much....

Transmutation, on down, through the elemental table...into any form of element at all.. requires a high energy catalyst...probably... the one closest to a gas. the first element. Lithium.

Which takes you to the 'Lithium' thread.....(dimensional vibrational integration and a seed material possibly, thus the lithium)

However, Once this is all known, then direct High frequency RF interference fields can possibly do away with even that requirement, as they can gate dimensional vibrations directly into 'form'. In this case, elemental conversion would be the base function.

The horrible thing for the linear minded scientific view, is that it takes all of the physics work done at the so-called cutting edge, reported at places like 'physorg.com', and makes a mockery out of it.

[Carmody]

so, we have the possibility of all of this being played out as a game.

A 'gaming' of the 'human' population.

Good luck figuring out the reasoning behind that.

A specific observation on all of this, is: "The harder a problem is to solve, the more basic or fundamental the mistake in the formation of the question."

It becomes a question of: "What data, in the formation of the question, is missing?"

(You cannot get to the answer.... as you don't actually have the question in hand)

To paraphrase, and change a limerick... and answer a question put to me, in another thread:

In days of old,
when people were bold,
dogma was invented...

It allowed them to leave their load,
upon the road,
and continue on it,
contented.

[Carmody]

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by meat suit (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by nonesuch (here)

In answer to my question about nuclear waste, he told me rather casually that they'd already figured out an effective way to deactivate nuclear waste years ago and it was no longer a problem. I was shocked, but didn't have the state of mind to ask him why in hell's name that knowledge wasn't applied in the world. My Libran diplomacy was in full swing as I was somewhat horrified to be talking to the 'enemy' but didn't want to shut down the discussion by picketing his study.

Find my posts about Brown's gas and radiation.

This will show one known way to completely deactivate radioactive materials. I explicitly state HOW it is done. (in at least a few of the posts)

It is being HELD BACK AND BLOCKED, as the technology involved changes the fundamentals of human existence..and gives all of us an opening into universal knowledge and knowing, immense amounts of personal power, and total energy independence from all control schemes that can be erected in this world.

found it I think
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...oad....for-60M

Yes, that is the thread and the exact methodology is spelled out in it's entirety.

Research DR. Joe champion. Gold shortage? Precious metals? Transmutation? Basing currencies and wealth on precious metals? Running, ruining, and controlling economies via element resource controls? Precious metals markets will simply END. No shortage of gold, which takes us to the Annunaki gold scenario thing. Mining gold? Creating humans to do so? Meh. not so much....

Transmutation, on down, through the elemental table...into any form of element at all.. requires a high energy catalyst...probably... the one closest to a gas. the first element. Lithium.

Which takes you to the 'Lithium' thread.....(dimensional vibrational integration and a seed material possibly, thus the lithium)

However, Once this is all known, then direct High frequency RF interference fields can possibly do away with even that requirement, as they can gate dimensional vibrations directly into 'form'. In this case, elemental conversion would be the base function.

The horrible thing for the linear minded scientific view, is that it takes all of the physics work done at the so-called cutting edge, reported at places like 'physorg.com', and makes a mockery out of it.

So, has anyone, anyone at all, ever actually done this. has anyone created devices that work at producing FLT waveforms, that 'create' reality, FROM dimensional dark matter spaces..INTO 3-d linear unidirectional timespace?

The answer is yes.

Troy Hurtubise

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post584920

and:

http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/details.asp?c=8267

Aim two finely constructed solar cells at one another, with a 'hair' of difference in distance from each other... one end to the other.

Fire a shock-pulse of energy into each, simultaneously. They are PLANAR transistors. With RF output.

The resultant wave that squeezes out of the gap, will be FTL. (faster than light, a dark matter higher dimensional 'out of time' wave).

Now, with that in mind....go look at the Troy Hurtubise article..AGAIN.

Then... we've also got John hutchison's works.

It show that it is possible to contemplate the creation or the reduction of radiation in materials, via the same tricks.

Again, technology is being held back, and you are being purposely GAMED.

Don't be angry about it... as that will bring you to incorrect conclusions. Don't let emotionally based thought formation block you from getting this fixed.

[ulli]

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by meat suit (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by nonesuch (here)

In answer to my question about nuclear waste, he told me rather casually that they'd already figured out an effective way to deactivate nuclear waste years ago and it was no longer a problem. I was shocked, but didn't have the state of mind to ask him why in hell's name that knowledge wasn't applied in the world. My Libran diplomacy was in full swing as I was somewhat horrified to be talking to the 'enemy' but didn't want to shut down the discussion by picketing his study.

Find my posts about Brown's gas and radiation.

This will show one known way to completely deactivate radioactive materials. I explicitly state HOW it is done. (in at least a few of the posts)

It is being HELD BACK AND BLOCKED, as the technology involved changes the fundamentals of human existence..and gives all of us an opening into universal knowledge and knowing, immense amounts of personal power, and total energy independence from all control schemes that can be erected in this world.

found it I think
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...oad....for-60M

Yes, that is the thread and the exact methodology is spelled out in it's entirety.

Research DR. Joe champion. Gold shortage? Precious metals? Transmutation? Basing currencies and wealth on precious metals? Running, ruining, and controlling economies via element resource controls? Precious metals markets will simply END. No shortage of gold, which takes us to the Annunaki gold scenario thing. Mining gold? Creating humans to do so? Meh. not so much....

Transmutation, on down, through the elemental table...into any form of element at all.. requires a high energy catalyst...probably... the one closest to a gas. the first element. Lithium.

Which takes you to the 'Lithium' thread.....(dimensional vibrational integration and a seed material possibly, thus the lithium)

However, Once this is all known, then direct High frequency RF interference fields can possibly do away with even that requirement, as they can gate dimensional vibrations directly into 'form'. In this case, elemental conversion would be the base function.

The horrible thing for the linear minded scientific view, is that it takes all of the physics work done at the so-called cutting edge, reported at places like 'physorg.com', and makes a mockery out of it.

Dr. Joe Champion appeared on the Wingmakers forum I was on more than ten years ago. That forum was closed, no records exist, unfortunately.
He wrote many informative and polite posts about transmuting metals.
But never before nor since have I seen a person put through the forum meat grinder like that poor man...
People who had previously appeared reasonable, intelligent human beings became incredibly rude and aggressive, to the point that it was shocking to read.
So I began to pay more attention to this guy, understanding the polarity between geniuses and the persecutions they often suffer. There seems to be an exact ratio there.

Truly self-realized people don't attack others in such a manner, simply because the person is bringing something to the table that hasn't been tried or proven before.
If every time someone claims new or different ideas the whole world rises up to push them down then soon no one will be found willing to even look for new approaches, let alone present them to the rest of us.

I find something medieval in all this probing and harassing we are seeing...even here on this forum.
Such ferociousness ...what is this all about? What is behind it?

[TargeT]

Posted by ulli (here)

Dr. Joe Champion appeared on the Wingmakers forum I was on more than ten years ago. That forum was closed, no records exist, unfortunately.
He wrote many informative and polite posts about transmuting metals.
But never before nor since have I seen a person put through the forum meat grinder like that poor man...
People who had previously appeared reasonable, intelligent human beings became incredibly rude and aggressive, to the point that it was shocking to read.
So I began to pay more attention to this guy, understanding the polarity between geniuses and the persecutions they often suffer. There seems to be an exact ratio there.

Truly self-realized people don't attack others in such a manner, simply because the person is bringing something to the table that hasn't been tried or proven before.
If every time someone claims new or different ideas the whole world rises up to push them down then soon no one will be found willing to even look for new approaches, let alone present them to the rest of us.

I find something medieval in all this probing and harassing we are seeing...even here on this forum.
Such ferociousness ...what is this all about? What is behind it?

Aside from Archonic influences (nudges really, not much is needed) what you are seeing is the outcome of a challenged strongly held belief, our brain reacts to these challenges as if we are physically being threatened; the neurological (neuroochemical really) responses can (and usually do) revert the person to a more reptilian-brain state which of course is characterized by viciousness (usually either lightly, or not so lightly veiled) circular thinking and thick with logical fallacy.

Until I understood this I thought for a long time that people are just "arseholes" online & that the anonymity allowed it to come out; now I know it is a basic function of our brain. Perhaps even a function that has been carefully inserted into the current genetic set as it ties in very nicely with Carmody's Death of Genetics thread.

I think the primary job of moderators is to deal with these types of situations, as they can arise randomly on nearly any topic (as long as the topic is a strongly held belief by one or more parties involved in the discussion)

You right on the self-realization part (how else do you notice the aberrant behavior in yourself?), but that is a goal that some don't even pursue so the continuance of this pattern can be expected.


(of course this is all my theory based on my research)

[TargeT]

I find the following two posts by our own gittarpikk to be profound and light shedding on this topic; first hand witness testimony is very weighty...... Do not let this rare inside offering go ignored.

Posted by TargeT (here)
Wow, actual hands on first person testimony on a hotly debated topic and not a single 'thanks' or comment at all...?

Posted by gittarpikk (here)
Well a real clue to what the real danger level could be is possibly in my own experience as a radiation worker back in the early 90's for Duke power on the East coast

We were insulation workers /tradesmen and were hired during outages (plant repair /reload period of inactivity)

For about 2 weeks we played cards outside the gate while our security backgrounds were being checked and occsionally we had a class on plant ops , security and radiation .

In those classes....before we were actually allowed to be brought into the plant to work...we were told things about radiation including that yes in high levels it can damage your genes...but with protection (suits, cloths, masks, gloves and doscemetry --portable detection modules taped to your suit) and its proper wearing and tapiing all seames etc...that we would not pick up any radiation. We were 'allowed ' a certain amount of 'exposure' and tested by wand and/or beta machines at the end of each exposure to limit the actual exposure...and any physical contact with things like radioactive dust or water,

So if you got 'leaked on; by something like a tank valve and you had not properly donned your cotton suites, rubber gloves /boots etc...you could very well 'Crap Up'...which was the term used when you screwed up and took on radiation

this always resulted in meeting the RP (Radiation Protection) clean up team who were not very 'comfortable while they scrubbed your skin raw...and removed the offending rad dust from you before you were let outside the plant again

Sometimes duct tape, when rubbed down over an area that had contamination and pulled from the skin roughly would get it off...but sometimes it took many showers/cleaning to get you clean

I never 'Crapped up' once in my tenure of several outages..

but while there I understood and was told things the public is not aware of,,,

The whole RP thing is a huge overkill in the states.. to allow mega bucks to be charged to the public to keep things 'clean' and uncontaminated.

This includes huge storage facilities for even very slightly contaminated paper suits, gloves etc...as well as any tool /part that has been used and has a very slight trace of activity.

Radiation protection is a bureaucracy and mega godzillions are paid to create the circumstances to keep the 'public' clear of any 'contamination'...and that in reality it is much safer than the public is told/allowed to believe. I witnessed this by how little protection the 'RP' people wore when they did their checking inside the plant and protected areas (areas that had some radiation detected). Those areas has labels on the amount and location of hot spots for ll to see.

We , basically , were hired for our 'allowable' radiation exposure we could take as a human and were only allowed a certain amount per year... so we 'rented' our 'intake' to the company as a radiation skilled tradesman.

We also were made aware that in places like Japan, or other countries that they were seen many, many times with no protection at all...with no obvious effects of having been involved in radiation work.

However, our media, to create propaganda here in the states to keep the people scared, would search out any birth defects, etc and blow it up to huge proportions to make their points and keep that 'overkill' funding coming.

So it was told to us that we would never be exposed to any levels that could possibly hurt us in due to the overkill....and that the protection that other countries used was more appropriate for the actual exposure....but then again , they saved mega bucks uselessly spent on trivial protection....typical of third world countries.

So now we have had catastrophes at Fukushima.. and we see some things that our MSM have captured on video ...but its obvious they are not allowed inside the plant. My guess is they are walking around in it with little protection and their detectors are all set at only dangerous levels rather than the trivial amounts that our stateside detectors are set at.....but if the MSM gets info of the actual levels that are there...it seems WAAAAY to high...when in reality is safe...or maybe even just borderline on being dangerous...and if something gets dangerous...they do actually list an ' event' in their logs as required by the regulatory agencies.

Hope this helps to maybe understand what is actually dangerous....and what is media/bureaucracy fear mongering/bilking the population.

Posted by gittarpikk (here)
A bit more about the bureaucracy was brought out by Paul Harvey about the asbestos industry back in the early 90's.

He exposed publicly the fact how the findings were skewed to exaggerate the danger of the asbestos dust... The old insulators worked in it all day, every day for years in dust you could cut with a knife and 'sometimes' developed a lung disease ...but that coal workers as well as any kind of dusty environment worker could develop these same diseases ..and simple common sense of a dust mask was all one really needed to prevent over exposure ..

I distinctly remember an instance where I went through an orientation from the Union Carbide (I think it was) plant about all the usual dust/danger training's and then put in a room with 30 insulators ...to be there for weeks . what was weird was it was so dusty that you could not breathe...and with no ventilation. I asked for a dusk mask ....(simple ) to wear and they would not issue it...and the explanation was they were OSHA illegal and all I could wear would be a full blown rubber face mask/filter system (called sucking rubber) and they did not have enough time allowed to train me for weeks and to issue my own mask..

Remember I was a radiation worker ,,,and had just finished a job in a nearby city in a nuclear plant with dust masks and training many degrees/levels above what is needed in just a dusty environment .. I did not need any sort of training as I was well over-trained . ...but I was becoming a hassle for the management by requesting a simple (illegal) dust mask and was told to just go home unless I wanted to work with no protection... well I left.

This is how business is 'handled' in the real world...zero common sense and 100% what the bureaucracies/corporations want so they can make tons of money off the public as a whole.... This is only a couple examples of what this whole corporate structure represents and I am sure there are thousands more very similar examples people can give of similar things in the health service, big pharma, DOT, Dept of defense, judicial, political...and the list goes on and on... sorry for the rant... but felt it needed to be stated

Thanks a lot gittarpikk; for anyone that cares to find out the truth your contribution here is well noted.

[Kimberley]

Thank you target for emphasizing gittarpikk's important posts... wonder If Bill read them?