Does Our Treatment of Animals Affect How We Treat Each Other?

[Akasha]

Some of the greatest human minds seemed to think so:

For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.

Pythagoras

As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.

Leo Tolstoy

What I think about vivisection is that if people admit that they have the right to take or endanger the life of living beings for the benefit of many, there will be no limit to their cruelty.

Leo Tolstoy

Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty.

Albert Einstein

Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

Albert Einstein

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.

Thomas Edison

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

Mahatma Gandhi

To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being.

Mahatma Gandhi

In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought.

Isaac Bashevis Singer

While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?

George Bernard Shaw

Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research.

George Bernard Shaw

Living Graves

By George Bernard Shaw


We are the living graves of murdered beasts,

Slaughtered to satisfy our appetites.

We never pause to wonder at our feasts,

If animals, like men, can possibly have rights.

We pray on Sundays that we may have light,

To guide our footsteps on the path we tread.

We’re sick of War, we do not want to fight –

The thought of it now fills our hearts with dread,

And yet – we gorge ourselves upon the dead.

Like carrion crows, we live and feed on meat,

Regardless of the suffering and pain

We cause by doing so, if thus we treat

Defenseless animals for sport or gain,

How can we hope in this world to attain

The PEACE we say we are so anxious for.

We pray for it, o’er hecatombs of slain,

To God, while outraging the moral law.

Thus cruelty begets its offspring – WAR

Feel free to comment regarding the question posed in the thread title and the quotes shared in the O.P. as well as sharing any other quotes by great minds on the subject.

I appreciate that this is a sensitive topic but can we all please, please, please maintain a level of civility and respect for one another that is becoming of Avalon as well as making every effort to stay on topic : I feel this subject is too important to be reduced to another "food fight" as Fred so aptly put it previously.

[Spiral of Light]

“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight.”
― Albert Schweitzer

[4Talismans]

How can we have respect for life when it's on our plate every day?

[Nothingness]

This is only my thoughts:

How dense or how light we are in our consciousness affects the way we see things and how much of things we do see. We have to chose (because of free will) to want to be more conscious and work at it, so somehow we have to get to that point, or we do get to that point because evolvement is ongoing--and it is an individual choice, not the choice of someone else.

Basically, unless we are truly enlightened on this planet, and there are many who have had impressive lighted awakenings, but are/were still not totally enlightened, and therefore still even more susceptible to falling or loosing a great deal of ground if they aren't vigilant. But even the enlightened can fall below enlightenment (especially on Earth). It is always a persistent endeavor to stay on the path, to achieve even more levels of endless enlightenment and other journeys.

Animals and humans will be mistreated by people who are operating out of a first chakra mode. They are in some deep darkness, and some are not completely operating there, but have energy there that they fall into at times. In most cases they are blind because they don't have the consciousness to see very far. They don't even have consciousness of what they are doing, but this seems to be the way entities progress, and they do progress, however long it takes.

I think we all start at the bottom at one point or another, or have worked our way back there via issues and karma. It is said in some esoteric Hindu scriptures that we live 678,000 lives before we get to a life that we even hear about enlightenment. We can have other lives on other planets, too. It is also said given the current situation and how we handle it, the Earth may remain a planet with just animals, and there will be no further use of this planet for growth by other beings.

With 678,000 lives most of us have had all the experiences (played different archetypes and combinations of) and none of us is guilt-free. Carl Jungs' shadow work is a reflection of that in many ways--of laying claim to all shadows to achieve wholeness because we are both dark and light--and it is the dance of both dark and light that allows us to evolve.

None of us likes to admit we've been animal abusers, but in reality, we are composite of all that exists on this earth and beyond. There go we, but for the grace of God, or the Universe, or Whatever. We engender all things. To be whole we can't just love the animal, we also have to love the abuser to be whole--to encompass the totality and move beyond even that.

Everyone and everything is on a journey like everything else in eternity, and even animals can be saints and gain spiritual progression when they, like very evolved Buddhists who light themselves on fire (they actually don't feel it and it is more like a purification) for causes. Animals can gain or loss karma, too, and progress spiritually. I also think our wholeness and consciousness allows us to transcend the illusions of being in a body and progress to other existences. So, it is a part of Isness and wholeness. It's life playing out its wholeness.

[etheric underground]

Thank you for some great quotes. It is always hard for people to come to terms with the realisation that we kill and eat our own brothers and sisters for no real reason other than to feast......as the new blood of my tribe ( ngai tahu) I am constantly reminded of the responsibility to the honouring of the animals who sacrifice there flesh and energy to enable me to be who I AM.... We once only took the lives of few for the requirements of survival...and even then we placed great honour to those animals for there service to us for providing us with there life force.
It goes along way to pay respect every time a side of beef or a chickens carcass or a fish is brought to your plate in your need to eat and survive......REMEMBER these animals give themselves knowingly for our benefit....give respect to each and every animal you place in your mouth...

[DeDukshyn]

One does not affect the other -- the mind affects each.

[Ellisa]

Certainly children who tease and torture animals for fun grow up to be harsh and cruel people who still treat animals badly, and often progress to mistreating other people. Whilst I think that sometimes such children are badly treated themselves, unfortunately some of us just enjoy hurting animals and other humans as entertainment.

I am not a vegetarian, and I do understand that eating flesh can seem repugnant, however I do think that meat can be produced without cruelty. We just need to ensure it is, and buy or consume the produce that is cruelty-free. It is on sale-- unfortunately at premium prices.

Personally I believe that we humans need to consume meat to stay healthy. We are omnivores after all, though I am very sympathetic to the opposite point of view!

It is of great importance that our dealings with animals are free from cruelty. We let ourselves down otherwise. I feel sorry for anyone who has not established a loving and positive relationship with an animal -- pet or not.

[TargeT]

Hey! Another thread prosthelytizing vegan-ism.....

Just what I was looking forward to, I bet if we combined the many threads on this topic we'd have one hell of a dogmatic read.

At least this one is fairly light on the logical fallacies

[donk]

Dang...I was enjoying the empathy for animals. While I have some for the plants I steal my energy, I relate more to the animals...guess my heart bleeds a little more for them.

Anywho, I just wanna say while I try judge anyone that eats meat--it'd be the ultimate hyppocracy--or prostyletizes veganism, I enjoyed the quotes, a morality-free food (for thought)

Sincerely, a self loathing animal eater

[Akasha]

To maintain some sort of order on this thread, it would be appreciated if folk could try to adhere to the suggestions in the O.P. with regard to their responses.

Would those in opposition please take the time to share why they disagree with, Einstein, Tolstoy, Pythagoras, George Bernard Shaw, Leonardo da Vinci et al.

I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men.”

Leonardo da Vinci

I think we can all agree that we are opposed to war and cruelty and these great minds were trying to share their insight on the matter.

"Humanely killed" is an oxymoron with, perhaps, the exception of euthanasia

anonymous

[Akasha]

Here's a couple more quotes:

The assumption that animals are without rights, and the illusion that our treatment of them has no moral significance, is a positively outrageous example of Western crudity and barbarity. Universal compassion in the only guarantee of morality.

Arthur Schopenhauer

We must fight against the spirit of unconscious cruelty with which we treat the animals. Animals suffer as much as we do. True humanity does not allow us to impose such sufferings on them. It is our duty to make the whole world recognize it. Until we extend our circle of compassion to all living things, humanity will not find peace.

Albert Schweitzer

[Akasha]

.....and one from Plutarch addressing the notion that we are designed to eat animals:

A human body in no way resembles those that were born for ravenousness; it hath no hawk’s bill, no sharp talon, no roughness of teeth, no such strength of stomach or heat of digestion, as can be sufficient to convert or alter such heavy and fleshy fare. But if you will contend that you were born to an inclination to such food as you have now a mind to eat, do you then yourself kill what you would eat. But do it yourself, without the help of a chopping-knife, mallet or axe, as wolves, bears, and lions do, who kill and eat at once. Rend an ox with thy teeth, worry a hog with thy mouth, tear a lamb or a hare in pieces, and fall on and eat it alive as they do. But if thou had rather stay until what thou eat is to become dead, and if thou art loath to force a soul out of its body, why then dost thou against nature eat an animate thing? There is nobody that is willing to eat even a lifeless and a dead thing even as it is; so they boil it, and roast it, and alter it by fire and medicines, as it were, changing and quenching the slaughtered gore with thousands of sweet sauces, that the palate being thereby deceived may admit of such uncouth fare.”

Plutarch

NB: I'm going to try to link all authors of quotes' names to their Wiki' page. If folk sharing other quotes could edit their posts accordingly too, I think it would be helpful to everyone reading this thread.

[Akasha]

In the following podcast, Mark Passio delves deep into the subject of carnism. He spells out why it is, in fact, a religion as well as making the link between the phenomenon and global enslavement, given the unavoidable effects of natural law.

http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/podcasts/WOEIH-121.mp3

NB: fast forward to 22.45 for the presentation.

[lunaflare]

I have from an early age abjured the use of meat,....Leonardi Da Vinci clearly showed a heightened sensitivity as a young boy; a compassionate sensitivity he was able to bring into his adult years. I am sure he was marginalized for such thinking! The other quotes also suggest minds who saw the abuse animals as abhorrent and a poor reflection on human morals and thus consciousness. Of course there is the misconception that all people who choose to be vegetarian are compassionate or more elevated in their thinking. Alas, not. The capacity for human cruelty comes in the form of our "shadow" selves as Jung was able to articulate so very well. We are all capable of harming others- people or animals-as we all carry a shadow. Darn.
I think the point of this post, however, is to be reminded of the many shades of gray in our human behaviour-and to become more aware of our own actions and choices. We are a mass of contradictions as we walk our way through this realm of duality...and, YES we do have choice. I agree there are young children who seem wired from a young age to be cruel and without compassion. As a society we have an obligation to mitigate their actions for the benefit of the "whole" organism.
Where there is goodness, there will be evil. The percentage of "darkness" in the human species is far smaller. Light exists in darkness which is the conundrum of this plane.

[mischief]

I still eat meat, very little, but I do.
I buy only from a local farmer, who I know personally, and know how he treats his animals and the land they live on.
I know these are killed very quickly and humanely, do not travel in stuffy trucks to fear reeking slaughterhouses, but removed to the local butchers shop only after they are shot.
I understand others will still find this abhorent, but having tried a vegetarian diet, I got sick and had to stop.
Perhaps I didnt do it right somehow.
Currently, I am trying to turn our backyard into a garden in the hopes of providing all our food and have started looking at how I can replace our protein from meat to veg.Meanwhile, I try to eat as little meat as I can in order to wean myself off it, physically and mentally.

[Abhaya]

I like the example from the earthlings movie. Humanity has grown In it's awareness of equality over time. We overcame racism, sexism, sexual preference and more. But the next step may be speciesism. We will truly be an advanced society when we recognize consciousness as the great equalizer that makes us all brothers on the same path

[Akasha]

Posted by Akasha (here)
In the following podcast, Mark Passio delves deep into the subject of carnism. He spells out why it is, in fact, a religion as well as making the link between the phenomenon and global enslavement, given the unavoidable effects of natural law.

http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/podcasts/WOEIH-121.mp3

NB: fast forward to 22.45 for the presentation.

Since there has been practically zero feedback regarding the above podcast, and given it's groundbreaking content, I'm going to assume it was just lost in the sea of other threads and therefore give it a .

I would also encourage folk to listen to podcast 122 and podcast 123 in which Mark Passio elaborates further on the subject.

Accompanying images, documents and videos of the podcasts can be found on his actual podcasts page below the relevant podcast link.

I appreciate that for many this subject is a tough pill to swallow, but try and get it down anyway. You can always bring it up again if it really disagrees with you .

[Akasha]

[Akasha]

So I just came across the (closed) Human Carnivore Myth thread and it is now abundantly clear why no-one is touching this thread with a barge-pole. If I had known about that thread, I wouldn't have bothered starting this one, honest. I will now let this thread die it's inevitable death, but that's not to denigrate it's content, especially Passio's podcasts on the topic as well as the thoughts of all the greats I quoted in the OP. Are we really that bold to shout down the likes of Einstein, Pythagoras and Da Vinci? Humanity will ignore this info' at our collective peril, spiritually and physically, but we will never know this was the cause of our continued demise.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

appreciate anything you have to eat.

anything you eat was once alive

even plants have feelings

i agree less animal slaughtering , most definitely ! but alll iving things have life and it is good karma to be thankful and appreciative of whatever you eat as it has sacrificed its self for you to live , wether it wanted to or not...

i completely agree while we slaughter animals , we have little chance of peace .. as this is an act that does not recognise what the slaughter of animals does ... in turn does not account for the thought process required to kill ... if you can kill an ant or a fly then you are just as accountable for acts against other sentient beings...

the question is can we sustain reasonable 4 and 5 d ethics in a 3 d paradigm ? we can try but it is not easy .. however the reason for all this is to make the REALISATION of such things ... this is the lesson.

Naniu