Does Our Treatment of Animals Affect How We Treat Each Other?

[Akasha]

I just checked out ktlight's latest thread with Lenon Honor on the Gnostic Media podcast and it reminded me of an older video he'd done regarding his transition to a plant based diet. Here it is:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=G6alvT-2RLA

[Akasha]

Stroke of luck - the following short was in the side-bar of the Lenon Honor video. Moby steps up to the plate and shares his experience of being a vegan:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NUJwRTvwadY

[Akasha]

MRSA Superbugs in Meat

This is a very direct and tangible application of the thread title. Our antibiotic treatment of animals is undermining the effectiveness of our antibiotic treatment of one other.

"Washing of hands after touching raw pork is advised":

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dkHL7g3KxVQ

[Pam]

Posted by SamwiseTheBrave (here)
I was hesitant to post on this thread for a long while after seeing the conversation take place, but I feel the need to.

How can humans ever come together in unification and evolve to a higher state of being if we cannot come to an agreement on the issue of what is the best food stuff to put into our bodies to create the most sustainable, ethical, healthy, and spiritual way-of-life possible for our existence and evolution?

If we cannot agree on this, then there is no way we will evolve and break the chains from this control structure.

I find it extremely silly that humans think eating animal products is necessary for well-being. Sure, it is one way to exist and to evolve, but it is not the best, quickest, and most efficient way. I truly do think that the word "silly" is the best adjective to apply to omnivores, as the information to suggest eating animal products is not the best route for one to take is astronomical.

I even think that it is silly to have to fully explain this philosophically, ethically, factually, objectively, spiritually, and even provide witness testimonial of E.T. experiencers/contactees.

Avalon is full of the brightest, most aware individuals on this planet, but this subject is still heavily contested. It is contested vehemently, no different than the average human on this planet denying 9/11 being an inside job. How is this the case, and why do people get so emotional and defensive about this?

I think that some people have made the decision a long time ago to include animals as a part of their way-of-life, to the point where they feel that it is too late to admit that they have overlooked the objective nature of veganism being a more efficient way to exist and evolve. Especially for those involved in the Truth movement...they have amassed a huge understanding of the nature of reality to the point where they get angry when compared to the level of an unaware individual. As soon as you say that they are still holding onto a paradigm that has purposely been created to hinder humans, their stubbornness triggers emotions that makes them defend themselves, lest they feel like the person who is unaware in this world.

I know this comment is going to receive a huge backlash, which again, I will think is silly.

Beautifully stated Sam the Wise. In my case it was my young daughter that brought me to the light so to speak. We were driving down the road in a rural area. She saw a truck load of chickens on their way to slaughter. One in particular caught her eye with his little head sticking out the side of the cage. She was just blown away that this is where 'chicken' comes from. She never ate meat again. Up until that point I have to admit I had just been putting my head in the sand. I was too weak to live the life that I knew was right for me.It was the stand that a small child took that taught me to have the fortitude to live my beliefs.

[Freed Fox]

Three weeks vegetarian now, and thinking about ways to encourage others in my life to follow suite.

I hope none of you mind my jumping into this thread so far in. However, I no longer need be convinced myself, one way or the other; I am content in my personal choice. I did want to offer this in case it may help some of you, whom I appreciate and respect for taking up a controversial but nevertheless important cause.

My current approach is based on what worked for me; for years I had felt guilty about eating meat, but always managed to either justify it or ignore the feeling for sake of convenience/taste/what-have-you. Guilt alone was insufficient to move me. When I did finally make the switch (giving it up entirely, from that day on) the impetus behind that commitment was essentially compassion.

What the above lead me to believe is that change and/or sacrifice are more likely to happen when the motivation comes from a positive emotional source (empathy) rather than a negative one (guilt).

Not necessarily a revelation to anyone of course, just reporting from my present angle, for what it's worth.

[Pam]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Three weeks vegetarian now, and thinking about ways to encourage others in my life to follow suite.

I hope none of you mind my jumping into this thread so far in. However, I no longer need be convinced myself, one way or the other; I am content in my personal choice. I did want to offer this in case it may help some of you, whom I appreciate and respect for taking up a controversial but nevertheless important cause.

My current approach is based on what worked for me; for years I had felt guilty about eating meat, but always managed to either justify it or ignore the feeling for sake of convenience/taste/what-have-you. Guilt alone was insufficient to move me. When I did finally make the switch (giving it up entirely, from that day on) the impetus behind that commitment was essentially compassion.

What the above lead me to believe is that change and/or sacrifice are more likely to happen when the motivation comes from a positive emotional source (empathy) rather than a negative one (guilt).

Not necessarily a revelation to anyone of course, just reporting from my present angle, for what it's worth.

Freed Fox, Thank you for making my day with your heartfelt post. I so understand the process you explained on your journey to becoming a vegetarian. I too went through the guilt, justification and the ignoring of this aspect of my life where I knew I was falling short. I knew that for me, eating meat was wrong. I did not have the courage to kill an animal or even think about an animal being slaughtered ,yet I was going to the grocery store with my blinders on and buying meat. As I stated in an earlier post, it was the conviction of my daughter to live in integrity with her personal feelings that showed me that I too can muster the strength to live the life I have imagined for myself.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how your body will respond to this change, which is an added benefit. Again, I want to thank you for being so open and honest here, I know it is not easy, but rest assured your heartfelt message has been deeply appreciated.

Pam

[jackovesk]

Does Our Treatment of Animals Affect How We Treat Each Other?

Only small thing that is going to ((BUG-ME)) til the day I die...

What's this "Our" Business...

Its just a ((PET-HATE)) of mine (pardon the pun), when people point the finger right-back onto those that have never harmed and animal in their life...!!!

Generalising the ((OUR)) is not the way to tackle the issue IMHO...

((NOT GUILTY)) your Honor...

I am (NOT & NEVER) will be part of any form of ((COLLECTIVISM))...

PS - I'm an ((INDIVIDUAL)) you can't ((FOOL ME)) Jacko...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=g0Q5JFHrGNk

[donk]

It's nice to share though. You grow by learning from the "our", whether it is a for real entity or not.

Just wanted to thank you for the thread Akasha, I enjoy it and find a lot of value in it and am glad it still has life here, I've been using it as an example of how we grow as a community (hope you don't mind!)

[Pris]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Three weeks vegetarian now, and thinking about ways to encourage others in my life to follow suite.

I hope none of you mind my jumping into this thread so far in. However, I no longer need be convinced myself, one way or the other; I am content in my personal choice. I did want to offer this in case it may help some of you, whom I appreciate and respect for taking up a controversial but nevertheless important cause.

My current approach is based on what worked for me; for years I had felt guilty about eating meat, but always managed to either justify it or ignore the feeling for sake of convenience/taste/what-have-you. Guilt alone was insufficient to move me. When I did finally make the switch (giving it up entirely, from that day on) the impetus behind that commitment was essentially compassion.

What the above lead me to believe is that change and/or sacrifice are more likely to happen when the motivation comes from a positive emotional source (empathy) rather than a negative one (guilt).

Not necessarily a revelation to anyone of course, just reporting from my present angle, for what it's worth.

Good for you! Your present angle is worth a lot IMO.

I don't know if this interests you, but it took me a long time to finally become vegetarian let alone vegan. It took me many, many years. I'd be vegetarian for awhile, then I'd 'fall off the wagon' and eat meat again. Back and forth this went. But, what was interesting was as the years went by, the less and less meat I ate. And, the less meat I ate, the less cravings/desire I'd have for it.

Part of the problem over the years has been trying to find places to eat at that cater to being vegetarian or vegan. [Who knows what cross-contamination means? Please raise your hand! ] In other words, eating out became so problematic, I hardly do it anymore. I had to give up one lifestyle (which included socializing with people) for another and sometimes you really do feel deprived.

It wasn't 'just' the meat that was a challenge to give up, it was the dairy products/animal products. I also stopped drinking coffee, black tea, alcohol and pop. And, then I began eliminating foods with high fructose corn syrup, Canola oil, palm kernel and cottonseed oil, sugar, MSG, words you can't pronounce... I cut out soya and corn products as much as possible (mostly to avoid GMOs). And, I cut out margarine. The list goes on and on. I pay attention to those number codes on produce that most people ignore (what's irradiated, what's conventionally farmed, what's organic, what's a GMO) It's already challenging enough being a vegan in this world and I had to go and up the ante! Despite all the hardships, I don't look back.

For me, I've always felt that eating animals and animal products wasn't right (because I love and care about animals, for goodness sake!), so with regards to that, I'm finally living authentically. Phew!

[Pam]

Posted by Pris (here)

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Three weeks vegetarian now, and thinking about ways to encourage others in my life to follow suite.

I hope none of you mind my jumping into this thread so far in. However, I no longer need be convinced myself, one way or the other; I am content in my personal choice. I did want to offer this in case it may help some of you, whom I appreciate and respect for taking up a controversial but nevertheless important cause.

My current approach is based on what worked for me; for years I had felt guilty about eating meat, but always managed to either justify it or ignore the feeling for sake of convenience/taste/what-have-you. Guilt alone was insufficient to move me. When I did finally make the switch (giving it up entirely, from that day on) the impetus behind that commitment was essentially compassion.

What the above lead me to believe is that change and/or sacrifice are more likely to happen when the motivation comes from a positive emotional source (empathy) rather than a negative one (guilt).

Not necessarily a revelation to anyone of course, just reporting from my present angle, for what it's worth.

Good for you! Your present angle is worth a lot IMO.

I don't know if this interests you, but it took me a long time to finally become vegetarian let alone vegan. It took me many, many years. I'd be vegetarian for awhile, then I'd 'fall off the wagon' and eat meat again. Back and forth this went. But, what was interesting was as the years went by, the less and less meat I ate. And, the less meat I ate, the less cravings/desire I'd have for it.

Part of the problem over the years has been trying to find places to eat at that cater to being vegetarian or vegan. [Who knows what cross-contamination means? Please raise your hand! ] In other words, eating out became so problematic, I hardly do it anymore. I had to give up one lifestyle (which included socializing with people) for another and sometimes you really do feel deprived.

It wasn't 'just' the meat that was a challenge to give up, it was the dairy products/animal products. I also stopped drinking coffee, black tea, alcohol and pop. And, then I began eliminating foods with high fructose corn syrup, Canola oil, palm kernel and cottonseed oil, sugar, MSG, words you can't pronounce... I cut out soya and corn products as much as possible (mostly to avoid GMOs). And, I cut out margarine. The list goes on and on. I pay attention to those number codes on produce that most people ignore (what's irradiated, what's conventionally farmed, what's organic, what's a GMO) It's already challenging enough being a vegan in this world and I had to go and up the ante! Despite all the hardships, I don't look back.

For me, I've always felt that eating animals and animal products wasn't right (because I love and care about animals, for goodness sake!), so with regards to that, I'm finally living authentically. Phew!

Pris, I do find your story interesting, and as I am still refining my diet, I have a lot of admiration for your discipline. What I do find really true is that one can still eat poorly and not eat animal products. When I do this, my body wants to get back to healthy, vibrant food. I also want to say that I have found you to be a wonderfully refreshing addition to PA. I thoroughly enjoy your comments on any topic.

[Akasha]

Posted by donk (here)
It's nice to share though. You grow by learning from the "our", whether it is a for real entity or not.

Just wanted to thank you for the thread Akasha, I enjoy it and find a lot of value in it and am glad it still has life here, I've been using it as an example of how we grow as a community (hope you don't mind!)

Mind??? Of course not!!! It's a pleasure and a privilege to have it referenced in this context. I'm reminded of many posts on similar threads which advised the avoidance of the subject entirely. Whilst that strategy may well have resulted in less inflammation I'm not sure it would have resulted in the growth of the community as you observe it.

Personally, it's been and continues to be a steep learning curve in self-control but nevertheless an invaluable one.

[Akasha]

Posted by jackovesk (here)

Does Our Treatment of Animals Affect How We Treat Each Other?

Only small thing that is going to ((BUG-ME)) til the day I die...

What's this "Our" Business...

Its just a ((PET-HATE)) of mine (pardon the pun), when people point the finger right-back onto those that have never harmed and animal in their life...!!!

Generalising the ((OUR)) is not the way to tackle the issue IMHO...

((NOT GUILTY)) your Honor...

I am (NOT & NEVER) will be part of any form of ((COLLECTIVISM))...

PS - I'm an ((INDIVIDUAL)) you can't ((FOOL ME)) Jacko...

I'll be the first to admit the thread title is less than ideal given the subject matter but I was trying to encompass the essence of the OP quotes as they struck me in the form of a catchy question. Evidently I was less than successful and I apologise for that. I certainly don't want to undermine your individuality.

Since you highlighted the issue and considering your extensive experience composing thread titles - what would you have called it (if you don't mind me asking)?

[donk]

I personally like what it's called, think it's a valid direction...especially cuz I want to bring pets in the mix, I'm still working on it though. My vote is no change in title...

[Pris]

Posted by peterpam (here)

Posted by Pris (here)

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Three weeks vegetarian now, and thinking about ways to encourage others in my life to follow suite.

I hope none of you mind my jumping into this thread so far in. However, I no longer need be convinced myself, one way or the other; I am content in my personal choice. I did want to offer this in case it may help some of you, whom I appreciate and respect for taking up a controversial but nevertheless important cause.

My current approach is based on what worked for me; for years I had felt guilty about eating meat, but always managed to either justify it or ignore the feeling for sake of convenience/taste/what-have-you. Guilt alone was insufficient to move me. When I did finally make the switch (giving it up entirely, from that day on) the impetus behind that commitment was essentially compassion.

What the above lead me to believe is that change and/or sacrifice are more likely to happen when the motivation comes from a positive emotional source (empathy) rather than a negative one (guilt).

Not necessarily a revelation to anyone of course, just reporting from my present angle, for what it's worth.

Good for you! Your present angle is worth a lot IMO.

I don't know if this interests you, but it took me a long time to finally become vegetarian let alone vegan. It took me many, many years. I'd be vegetarian for awhile, then I'd 'fall off the wagon' and eat meat again. Back and forth this went. But, what was interesting was as the years went by, the less and less meat I ate. And, the less meat I ate, the less cravings/desire I'd have for it.

Part of the problem over the years has been trying to find places to eat at that cater to being vegetarian or vegan. [Who knows what cross-contamination means? Please raise your hand! ] In other words, eating out became so problematic, I hardly do it anymore. I had to give up one lifestyle (which included socializing with people) for another and sometimes you really do feel deprived.

It wasn't 'just' the meat that was a challenge to give up, it was the dairy products/animal products. I also stopped drinking coffee, black tea, alcohol and pop. And, then I began eliminating foods with high fructose corn syrup, Canola oil, palm kernel and cottonseed oil, sugar, MSG, words you can't pronounce... I cut out soya and corn products as much as possible (mostly to avoid GMOs). And, I cut out margarine. The list goes on and on. I pay attention to those number codes on produce that most people ignore (what's irradiated, what's conventionally farmed, what's organic, what's a GMO) It's already challenging enough being a vegan in this world and I had to go and up the ante! Despite all the hardships, I don't look back.

For me, I've always felt that eating animals and animal products wasn't right (because I love and care about animals, for goodness sake!), so with regards to that, I'm finally living authentically. Phew!

Pris, I do find your story interesting, and as I am still refining my diet, I have a lot of admiration for your discipline. What I do find really true is that one can still eat poorly and not eat animal products. When I do this, my body wants to get back to healthy, vibrant food. I also want to say that I have found you to be a wonderfully refreshing addition to PA. I thoroughly enjoy your comments on any topic.

My goodness! Thank you, peterpam. It's wonderful to get such kind feedback like this and I really do appreciate it.

And, I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts as well!

Yes, absolutely -- being vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean you're eating well that's for sure haha! And, despite all my discipline, I still do not eat nearly enough raw fruits and veggies. There is still so much room for improvement. I don't expect I'll ever get it 'right'. But, that's okay. At least I've got some momentum now.

[Pam]

I was not familiar with Lenon Honor but it is really an uplifting experience listening to him. I love what he says about being vegan, vegetarian, or really anything for that matter, it is the process that is of primary significance. How do I let the process transform me, rather than focusing on the outcome only. Does the process lead me to the life I have envisioned for myself? I guess he is saying to honor the process of transformation rather than gaining a new identity, ie I am ????.

I think when this is tied in with how we treat animals, the motivation that initiates the process can evolve over time as the body and mind are cleansed from the vibration of meat and hopefully, the reduction of toxins. In other words, one could become vegetarian for health reasons and vibrational changes that may occur may transmute that motivation to one of respecting all sentient beings.

[Robin]

I just couldn't resist sharing...

[Pam]

SamTheBrave, I love this cartoon. Particularly the one that says," God gave us dominion over them so that means we can murder them and use them as we please". Its funny, that if we weren't forced to see that we are those aliens we would find them a repulsive, despicable lot.

[Pris]

This is from another thread... thought I'd re-post it here... seems very appropriate.

Posted by Houman (here)

Posted by Limor (here)
Diabolo became Spirit

Timely. And very well understood. Thank you, Houman ~

The full video is at
http://vimeo.com/94709579

Posted by Pris (here)

Posted by spiritwind (here)

Posted by Jean-Luc (here)

Posted by Limor (here)
Diabolo became Spirit

Timely. And very well understood. Thank you, Houman ~

Yes indeed. Powerfull.

I agree. Powerful indeed. Thank you for this, Houman.

This brought tears to my eyes. Beautiful. From me too, thank you.

The Animal Communicator Anna Breytenbach Documentary Film

[heyokah]

Posted by Akasha (here)

Posted by Akasha (here)
In the following podcast, Mark Passio delves deep into the subject of carnism. He spells out why it is, in fact, a religion as well as making the link between the phenomenon and global enslavement, given the unavoidable effects of natural law.

http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/podcasts/WOEIH-121.mp3

NB: fast forward to 22.45 for the presentation.

Since there has been practically zero feedback regarding the above podcast, and given it's groundbreaking content, I'm going to assume it was just lost in the sea of other threads and therefore give it a .

I would also encourage folk to listen to podcast 122 and podcast 123 in which Mark Passio elaborates further on the subject.

Accompanying images, documents and videos of the podcasts can be found on his actual podcasts page below the relevant podcast link.

I appreciate that for many this subject is a tough pill to swallow, but try and get it down anyway. You can always bring it up again if it really disagrees with you .

Maybe this will help.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xalIRBqZwlc

[Akasha]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
even plants have feelings

Posted by Snowflower (here)
A polygraph machine has been used to record emotions from plants. When a tomato is plucked off the plant, the plant cries. When a carrot is pulled out of the ground, it records pain.

Posted by GreenGuy (here)
It's been demonstrated that plants are also sentient beings.

Posted by TargeT (here)
I'll ask again, which life do you value more, where is your scale, what meets your criteria and what doesn't?

I may be wrong but I think much of the basis for the above quotes stems from the work of CIA polygraph-meister, Cleve Baxter:

Grover Cleveland "Cleve" Backster, Jr. (February 27, 1924 – June 24, 2013) was an interrogation specialist for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), best known for his experiments with plants using a polygraph instrument in the 1960s which led to his theory of "primary perception" where he claimed that plants "feel pain" and have extrasensory perception (ESP).....

This research has been used as a foundation for nullifying and neutralising the vegan/vegetarian discussion on countless occasions so I wanted to highlight the remainder of the above paragraph:

.....which was widely reported in the media but was rejected by the scientific community.

His Wiki' page elaborates on the above statement:

Reactions by the scientific community[edit]
Controlled experiments that have attempted to replicate Backster's findings have failed.[12][13][14] and the theory was not accepted since it did not follow the scientific method.[9][15] At the 141st annual meeting of American Association for the Advancement of Science, the panel of biologists found the claim unsupportable. The results seemed to be spontaneous; repeatability is still a problem, for him and the people who tried to perform his experiment. His lack of control experiments were criticized and explanations like, the polygraphs were responding to static electricity build-up and humidity changes were put forward. The reliability of the polygraph test itself has been questioned.[9] Plants have cellulose cell walls but do not possess sensory organs, which rules out the possibility of plants having ESP or consciousness.[2]

Biologist Arthur Galston told St. Petersburg Times, "We know plants don't have nervous systems. But they do have little electrical currents flowing through them and are subject to outside manipulation." He further said that plants can show altered electrical responses to light, chemical agents and disease but he "draws the line" to the claim of them "responding to human thoughts and events, including life elimination."[15][16] Scientists at the Cornell University and the Science Unlimited Research Foundation, San Antonio, Texas, could not find results that supported Backster's findings in the experiment, where the death of brine shrimp caused electrical voltage changes in the leaves of a plant in another room. Backster explained that they did not follow the exact laboratory techniques which he had used to perform the original experiments and he has not attempted to repeat them himself.[15]

Popular culture and influence[edit]
Backster's work became popular and drew public attention,[5] and his findings were similar to the beliefs of Hindus, Buddhists and New Age followers. Some parapsychologists criticized his work, suggesting the results were due to "his own telekinetic abilities".[9] His theory is in books like Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird's The Secret Life of Plants and Robert Stone's The Secret Life of Your Cells.[5] He was a guest on June 27, 2007 on the evening radio show, "Coast To Coast AM", during which he discussed with host George Noory and with callers to the program his experiments with primary perception and findings of an interconnection between all living cells.[citation needed] He had been a guest several times before on Art Bell's Coast to Coast, as well as on Jeff Rense's radio shows, and has presented papers at many international conferences and meetings as well as those in the US.[citation needed]

Marcel Vogel claimed to be able to duplicate this effect "using plants as transducers for bio-energetic fields from the human mind". Backster's work caught the attention of the Church of Scientology founder, Ron Hubbard. Hubbard officially used the polygraph as an "E-meter" and he too, published plant communication experiments on tomato plants.[11]

Backster's "Primary Perception" theory was a subject of the Discovery Channel television show MythBusters.[17] After all human and environmental stimuli that could alter the results were removed, they reproduced Backster's experiments with the dracaena plant, yoghurt, saliva and eggs. After getting negative results, they performed a final experiment using an EEG instrument, which is more sensitive than a polygraph, connected it to a plant to check whether it would "see" eggs being catapulted randomly into boiling water. The instrument registered no change in the plant and the myth was considered as busted in that episode.

Of course I'm more than open to the notion of scientific dogma and skepticism impeding valid research (not to mention Wikipedia) but given that Baxter's results were independently tested and deemed unrepeatable, dogma shouldn't necessarily be an issue in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleve_Backster