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Thread: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Don't you wonder, how God can be omnipotent and omnipresent and not be fairly magical? I wonder who Pope Francis is really serving?

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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


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    Lightbulb Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    will share this here ...

    Twenty years ago i walked away from my then desired vocation with the Franciscan Order OFM ... Through purposeful study, self revelations and much contemplation, i found that there are no coincidences on this plane of existence ... That there is an inherent undercurrent of consciousness that flows through humanity ... Lighting the pathway ... Illuminating the real truth ... In that we are the true creators (and the only ones responsible) in fulfilling our own life's desires here in the now.



    i present to you a compelling Roman Catholic mystic's thoughts (writings) on the Holy Trinity.
    Via my family ancestral home of San Giovanni of Fiore, Italia


    Joachim of Fiore

    "The Italian mystic Joachim of Fiore (ca. 1132-1202) developed a philosophy of history based on his interpretation of the Trinity.

    Joachim was born at Celico near Cosenza in Calabria. While on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, he decided to enter the monastic life. Returning to Sicily, he entered the Cistercian abbey of Sambucina. At the Cistercian monastery of Corazzo Joachim was ordained a priest in 1168 and elected abbot in 1177.

    Preferring a solitary life of meditation and writing, about 1185 Joachim retired to the Benedictine monastery of Casamari, where he began to write his commentary on the Book of Revelation. In 1191 he left the Cistercian order and moved to Fiore (Flora), in Calabria, where he founded a hermitage and later, as disciples were attracted, a monastery. This group, eventually organized into the order of San Giovanni in Fiore, was a strict, reformed branch of the Cistercians; it was approved in 1196, and its members came to be known as the Florensians.

    In his later years Joachim came increasingly to feel that he possessed special insights into Christian Scriptures and doctrine and was perhaps subject to a special revelation. Through the encouragement of Pope Innocent III, Joachim wrote down his interpretations and visions and submitted them to the papacy for consideration and approval shortly before his death in 1202. Although Joachim had no intention of disseminating heretical doctrines, ideas drawn from his writings influenced heterodox thinkers and caused problems for the Church and society for the next 200 years.

    Joachim's thought centers on his concept of the Trinity and its implications for the understanding of human history. In his Liber figurarum and in several other works, Joachim divided history into two dispensations, or eras: the dispensation of the Old Testament, or former covenant, which culminated in the first coming of Christ, and the second dispensation, or new covenant, of the Christian Church, which would culminate in the second coming of Christ. Joachim believed that he was living near the end of his second age and that only two generations remained before the second advent of Christ.

    A slightly different view of history was extracted from Joachim's writings after his death. According to the view with which his name increasingly became associated, history is divided into three periods, the ages of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each of the first two being composed of 42 generations. The third age, which was supposed to dawn about 1260, was to be the age of the Spirit, an age of love, liberty, and freedom in which the principal institution in the world would be monasticism and in which the visible, hierarchical structure of the Catholic Church would be superseded by the Spiritual Church.

    One such eschatological movement that founded its doctrine in the writings of Joachim was led by the Franciscan Gerardo of Borgo San Donnino, who was condemned along with the teaching of Joachim in 1256 by Pope Alexander IV. However, the ideas of Joachim, especially the concept of a golden age of the Spirit and the threefold division of history, remained influential in Western thought from the 13th century on."


    And it was revealed through the transcending of the Christ Jesus, that each of us are and have always been the holy temples of that new 'spiritual church' ... Let there be no more need of any religious dogma ... Only the desired sharing of love between the brothers and sisters of all humankind ...

    giovonni
    Last edited by giovonni; 14th November 2014 at 07:11.

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    [I]will share this here ...

    Twenty years ago i walked away from my then desired vocation with the Franciscan Order OFM ... Through purposeful study, self revelations and much contemplation, i found that there are no coincidences on this plane of existence ... That there is an inherent undercurrent of consciousness that flows through humanity ... Lighting the pathway ... Illuminating the real truth ... In that we are the true creators (and the only ones responsible) in fulfilling our own life's desires here in the now.



    i present to you a compelling Roman Catholic mystic's thoughts (writings) on the Holy Trinity.
    (…)
    "The Italian mystic Joachim of Fiore (ca. 1132-1202) developed a philosophy of history based on his interpretation of the Trinity.
    (…)
    Interesting synchronicity there, gio: only the other day I posted something about the medieval Platonist Scotus Eriugena’s view of the trinity as aspects of the creation. These metaphysical aspects will materialize in various ways, and I suppose a series of eras is one conceivable way. Only the dates are usually dodgy. If we decide the time is now, dates are no longer an issue.
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post900618

    Since Joachim lived during the papacy of the ill-named Innocent III (the Cathar inquisition and massacres were on his watch, as was the infamous 4th Crusade that degenerated into the sack of Constantinople), then he surely had to be very careful not to step out of line.


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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Yes very interesting synchronicity Araucaria and thanks for sharing ...

    Joachim was a true visionary (doctor of the church) ... admired and held in high regard especially during his lifetime ...
    i believe the church's hierarchy (knowing the truths of his foretelling's) both admired and feared him ...

    Note, it was from the lesser of men within the church (who came later) who would attack and condemned his writings ...

    i would even encountered them myself within the order, those that oddly associated myself with Joachim ideals ...
    Which i had not even know of till they directed me to them.

    PS ~ It should be noted, i was slated to be given the name Bartholomew upon entering the fold, but later it was instructed, i be given the name Giovanni (even though my birth name was john) ... i would come to found out (this was due in part as a kind of mockery) due to my ancestral connections to the site of Joachim's chosen Abbey outpost ... Ah the politics of the living Church ...

    Again there are no coincidences ...

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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    some institutional one upmanship ...



    End of communism not all good for Christianity: Vatican

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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


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    Smile Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    If the heart dies the rest of the body will follow.This heart(church) is foul it must die.

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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Fortunately, Hollywood just might have the answer! All dogs go to heaven. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Ok this is pretty strange. The Vatican declares Lucifer as God, indirectly in a song where the lyrics state Christ is his son.

    Now I am not an Italian speaker, so I can't verify the song lyrics in English are as this video states. Can any Italian speakers please confirm that those lyrics are correct?



    Another version, which clearly shows the person singing, so that you know the audio is genuine to the video:
    Last edited by Arc; 22nd December 2014 at 17:19.

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    Question Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    hmm ...

    Yes ~ well note that's the right Reverend Michelle Hopkins speaking in the first video ...
    And her comments don't surprise me ... she's considered a wacko/shill on youtube ... to say the least ...

    Note the language being used during the mass is Latin and the word Lucifer it is being taken out
    of context of what is being proclaimed within the mass text ...

    Quote Lucifer (LEW-sif-ər, /ˈl(j)uːsɪfər/) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל in Isaiah 14:12.[1] This word, transliterated hêlêl[1] or heylel,[2] occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible[1] and according to the KJV-influenced Strong's Concordance means "shining one, morning star".[2] The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,[3] which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer,[Isa 14:12][4][5] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[6] The Septuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as ἑωσφόρος[7][8][9][10][11] (heōsphoros),[12][13][14] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.[15]

    In this passage Isaiah applies to a king of Babylon the image of the morning star fallen from the sky, an image he is generally believed to have borrowed from a legend in Canaanite mythology.[16]

    Later Christian tradition came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for Satan/the Devil; as he was before his fall.[17] As a result, "'Lucifer' has become a by-word for Satan in the Church and in popular literature",[3] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[14] However, the Latin word never came to be used almost exclusively, as in English, in this way, and was applied to others also, including Christ.[18]

    source
    As you probably know by now, i do not follow (condone) the Roman Catholic Church teachings,
    but i still love and respect the many that serve (IMO) through they're misplaced faith.

    PS ~ i still do have reverence for Christ Jesus and his teachings through the Word ~ the New Testaments.
    Last edited by giovonni; 22nd December 2014 at 18:29.

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    hmm ...
    Yes ~ well note that's the right Reverend Michelle Hopkins speaking in the first video ...
    And her comments don't surprise me ... she's considered a wacko/shill on youtube ... to say the least ...
    Ok, noted. We can put aside her commentary and just look at the song and the venue, and wonder why they want to sing at all about Lucifer during this globally broadcasted event. I would think they might want to leave out all the glorious Lucifer songs for another time.

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    Note the language being used during the mass is Latin and the word Lucifer it is being taken out
    of context of what is being proclaimed within the mass text ...
    Ok, so what was the translation of the song, and what was the context? We know who Lucifer is, as you referenced, but what are they saying about him?

    If anyone knows the translation of this, please post it.

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    As you probably know by now, i do not follow (condone) the Roman Catholic Church teachings, but i still love and respect the many that serve (IMO) through they're misplaced faith.
    I agree with you there.

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    I saw this article just on the BBC webpage and noticed
    you have already posted it above. I like the quote

    Quote Pope Francis has sharply criticised the Vatican bureaucracy in a pre-Christmas
    address to cardinals, complaining of "spiritual Alzheimer's" and "the terrorism of gossip".
    Basically calling them a lot of old women in frocks , more concerned
    with their own 'soap opera in the vatican' than the millions of RC
    souls around the world that they are supposed to support in Spiritual
    matters.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    22 December 2014 Last updated at 14:54

    Pope Francis deplores Vatican 'ills' in speech to Curia





    Pope Francis meeting cardinals, 22 Dec 14 The Pope delivered his tough message in the Vatican's Clementine Hall


    Continue reading the main story
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    What type of pontiff is Pope Francis?
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    Pope Francis has sharply criticised the Vatican bureaucracy in a pre-Christmas
    address to cardinals, complaining of "spiritual Alzheimer's" and "the terrorism of gossip".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30577368

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Ok, so what was the translation of the song, and what was the context? We know who Lucifer is, as you referenced, but what are they saying about him?
    the lyrics (text) are proclaiming Christ Jesus is the light ...

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