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Thread: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

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    Arrow Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World


    Thanks to All~ Hurritt Enyeto, Morning Star, RedeZra and Moxie ~ for your post and comments, also RedeZra ~ your articulation in expressing your thoughts and clear thinking was of the superb kind.

    Let me first say this thread is not about blame, nor is it about bashing the catholic church, priest (males) or even religion. For me it is about allowing, healing and moving on~ as a confirmed catholic, i took a solemn oath to follow the path of Jesus (Christ) and to obey and uphold the laws and traditions of the roman catholic church. i have always aspired too the first, but have been lacking in the second~ due mainly to the hypocrisy and inconsistencies of the church in practicing what it preached. This lacking by the church and its ongoing leadership, is what i believe allowed this human conditional flaw to manifest develop and continue to perpetuate unchecked. It is quite apparent Jesus~ life teachings ("the Word") and revelations > got pushed aside by the worldly (perpetuating) agenda of the hierarchy of this institution. But that's the rub~ "the Word" was never meant to be institutionalized> it was meant to be consumed > learned > realized > then lived (practiced) by (hopefully) an awoken~ enlightened human race

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Im not of any religion, nor want to be, but accept that it is easy for me to be critical, its so easy to condemn a church that has lightened many lives because of a few who have brought dis-grace to their calling.
    The spiritual message brought to us by Jesus has survived dogma and is still there in essence in the Catholic Church Services.
    It would be a great loss to the world if Christian Churches were to disappear and lets face it the Catholic church is the original and Mother Church.

    Chris

    yes what Chris says

    perhaps I am a little harsh

    but it's irritating to notice how easily people are played by the powers of Hades

    the Church is infiltrated by the dominions of darkness from the top down

    it should not come as a surprise as it was foretold in the Bible and predicted by the many Marian apparitions afterward


    there are still many good and Godly men and women in the Church


    all Im saying is don't add fuel to the fire with talks of burning the Mother's Church

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    yes what Chris says

    perhaps I am a little harsh

    but it's irritating to notice how easily people are played by the powers of Hades

    the Church is infiltrated by the dominions of darkness from the top down

    it should not come as a surprise as it was foretold in the Bible and predicted by the many Marian apparitions afterward


    there are still many good and Godly men and women in the Church


    all Im saying is don't add fuel to the fire with talks of burning the Mother's Church

    Yes RedeZra I agree.
    Too easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    I look forward to the day when we dont need a church or religion of any description, that may or may not happen.
    Who really know whats ahead of us?
    I certainly dont.
    Chris.
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Thumbs up Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    "Align oneself to God's will, and then see what happens!!"

    thank you greybread~ an amen too that!

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    This lacking by the church and its ongoing leadership, is what i believe allowed this human conditional flaw to manifest develop and continue to perpetuate unchecked. It is quite apparent Jesus~ life teachings ("the Word") and revelations > got pushed aside by the worldly (perpetuating) agenda of the hierarchy of this institution.

    But that's the rub~ "the Word" was never meant to be institutionalized> it was meant to be consumed > learned > realized > then lived (practiced) by (hopefully) an awoken~ enlightened human race

    tnx Giovanni


    one simply cannot explain the workings of the world

    by including only human participation

    and excluding the spirits of good and bad


    For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms - Ephesians 6:12


    the Church is inflicted with cancer

    the problem is one of bad apples in the basket

    not everyone does good

    devil is what evil does


    of course in Reality only God Is

    but that does not help us as long as we are slaves of the senses and captivated by the mind


    the Legacy of the Word was not ment to be hidden away between the dusty covers of a Book

    it was ment to be communicated in Holy Communion


    the Church was ment to be a holy place where Heaven and Earth meet

    now it is bedridden with cancer


    good men and women ought to pray for the sick

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    Avalon Member Menkaure's Avatar
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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Just wanted to add a little because I feel I am uniquely qualified to speak.
    My 2 Sisters and I had to endure growing up in a catholic school and I can tell you it's not just the priests that are abusers. The nuns that were in charge of 'teaching' us verbally, physically and emotionally abused us because we were poor and came from a broken home. I won't get into it because no one would read THAT long of a post! However, it's not just the priests OR nuns, it's the entire concept of the 'catholic church' that is flawed, evil and self serving. Power, control and money are the tenants of this 'cult-that-made-it', NOT spirituality or anything resembling God-like service to a fellow human. If you pick any specific point of the catholic church and follow it back with a modicum of logic, you will find at lease one the 'Big Three'. (Power, control, money.) I feel sorry for anyone that has been duped into being 'catholic'.
    Strong words??? Not if you see these bottom-feeders with my eyes.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Firinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    I found this to be an excellent open debate on whether "The Catholic Church is a Force for Good"

    http://www.intelligencesquared.com/i...040&sgmt=23171

    Compelling arguments... some more than others.

    With Love,
    Firrin
    The conqueror and king in each one of us is the knower of truth. Let the knower awaken in us and drive the horses of the mind, emotions, and physical body on the pathway which that king has chosen.
    -- George S. Arundale

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by Firinn (here)
    I found this to be an excellent open debate on whether "The Catholic Church is a Force for Good"

    http://www.intelligencesquared.com/i...040&sgmt=23171

    Compelling arguments... some more than others.

    With Love,
    Firrin
    Thank you for this link Firrin.

    I have always maintained after a lot of research on Vatican City that if we auctioned off everything they had in there we could probably wipe out a lot of poverty in the world, just mho.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Firinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    You are most welcome Tuza.

    Yes, the wealth of the Vatican is vulgar and should be put to a good purpose... something I believe all true Christians would agree with.

    With Love,
    Firinn.
    The conqueror and king in each one of us is the knower of truth. Let the knower awaken in us and drive the horses of the mind, emotions, and physical body on the pathway which that king has chosen.
    -- George S. Arundale

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by Menkaure (here)
    However, it's not just the priests OR nuns, it's the entire concept of the 'catholic church' that is flawed, evil and self serving. Power, control and money are the tenants of this 'cult-that-made-it', NOT spirituality or anything resembling God-like service to a fellow human. If you pick any specific point of the catholic church and follow it back with a modicum of logic, you will find at lease one the 'Big Three'. (Power, control, money.) I feel sorry for anyone that has been duped into being 'catholic'.

    Im sorry to hear about your hardships with some catholic men and women when you were growing up

    but to debase the whole Church on account of that

    is too simplistic to be taken serious


    the Church has a bloody history of figthing paganism

    paganism as in human sacrifices

    the Celts the Vikings Germanic tribes

    the Church has cut down and converted cultures that would not give up paganism


    what we now see is the retribution of the pagans

    this is the new world order

    paganism

    human sacrificers

    that rose to power through the secret hierarchies outside the Church

    and brought down the Republics and the Democracies of the western world

    before they infiltrated the Church from the top down


    Christ established the Church

    so to be against the Church is to be against the Christ


    the Church is now infested with pagans

    the enemy within growing like a cancer to try to divert and destroy it

    the Church cannot yield to every human whim and fashion about what is right or not

    it has a standard some principles to uphold tho it has (been) compromised alot

    besides the Holy Mass is of spiritual significance

    it is partaking in the mystery of the Living Christ




    Quote Posted by Tuza
    I have always maintained after a lot of research on Vatican City that if we auctioned off everything they had in there we could probably wipe out a lot of poverty in the world, just mho.
    don't you think the Governments of the world could end poverty if they wanted to Tuza

    that is not in their interest

    human sacrifices is what they want for they are pagans
    Last edited by RedeZra; 18th May 2010 at 05:17.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    If we are to believe in reincarnation and karma then we have all been the perpetarator and victim of the most horrendous crimes as part of our spiritual evolution.
    Let he who is without sin etc.
    Watched a video by Little Grandmother / Wisdom keeper / Shaman which made a lot of sense. Sorry dont have a link
    Nothing to be sacred of but the the three great powers will tumble, Money / Government / Religion.
    The spiral seen in the sky / videoed /and recently talked of by David Wilcock is a spiral held by evey indigenous tribe since time began. it is a symbol of spiritual power, oneness. The spiral has been seen in the sky over many countries recently.
    All this has been foretold by native cultures since time began.
    Would seem 2012 is possibly a time of real change and nothing to be feared.
    So why worry about the Vatican, Powers that be, Illuminati or any of it?
    They have had their day and that day is coming to an end.
    Hope this is true but it feels right.
    Our part is to be forgiving, loving, kind to all life, including our own no matter what.
    Step away from negativity.
    Become aware of the energy within and share energy with nature,
    Spend time outside becoming aware of the energy coming, for our benefit, from nature.
    As a suggestion, Chi Gong is very simple to do and you can really feel the energy doing this.

    All will be well.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Avalon Member truthseekerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Christ established the Church

    so to be against the Church is to be against the Christ


    the Church is now infested with pagans

    the enemy within growing like a cancer to try to divert and destroy it

    the Church cannot yield to every human whim and fashion about what is right or not

    it has a standard some principles to uphold tho it has (been) compromised alot

    besides the Holy Mass is of spiritual significance

    it is partaking in the mystery of the Living Christ[/I]
    What is the Church

    The word translated "church" in the English Bible is ekklesia. This word is the Greek words kaleo (to call), with the prefix ek (out). Thus, the word means "the called out ones." However, the English word "church" does not come from ekklesia but from the word kuriakon, which means "dedicated to the Lord." This word was commonly used to refer to a holy place or temple. By the time of Jerome's translation of the New Testament from Greek to Latin, it was customary to use a derivative of kuriakon to translate ekklesia. Therefore, the word church is a poor translation of the word ekklesia since it implies a sacred building, or temple.

    A more accurate translation would be "assembly" because the term ekklesia was used to refer to a group of people who had been called out to a meeting. It was also used as a synonym for the word synagogue, which also means to "come together," i.e. a gathering. "Body of Christ" Since believers have been united with Christ through spiritual baptism, they are sometimes corporately referred to as the body of Christ. (Rom. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 12:11,13,18,27; Col. 1:18; Eph. 5:30)
    The idea seems to be that the group of Christians in the world constitute the physical representation of Christ on earth. It is also a metaphor which demonstrates the interdependence of members in the church, while at the same time demonstrating their diversity from one another. (Rom. 12:4; 1 Cor. 12:14-17)

    The Temple of God

    (1 Cor. 3:16; Eph. 2:21,22; 1 Pet. 2:5).

    The Jerusalem From Above or The Heavenly Jerusalem

    (Gal. 4:26; Heb. 12:22). Both of these terms (as well as "temple") illustrate how the Old Testament notions of outward sanctuary have been replaced with the literal dwelling of God in his people.
    Unity Consciousness
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    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    paganism is not human sacrifice , that would be satanism

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Nothing to be sacred of but the the three great powers will tumble, Money / Government / Religion.

    So why worry about the Vatican, Powers that be, Illuminati or any of it?
    They have had their day and that day is coming to an end.

    where is the world going

    into a new world order

    the plot and the plan is to control

    money governments religions

    turn them into instruments to carry out their orders

    they have the money they have many Governments and they are strong in the Church

    they want to overthrow Christ

    for they cannot and will not live up to His standards

    rumor is they have enthroned Satan in the Vatican and now they mock the Church

    the Great Apostasy


    where will these people go when they die

    for Heaven's sake they will go to Hell

    Hell is as real as one's life on Earth

    both are states of mind but it feels very real

    this is a world of duality and it is real as long as one is not Realized

    so the choice is ours to pick a side or stay lukewarm


    how is the end coming and will it be a pleasure for all




    Quote Posted by bluestflame
    paganism is not human sacrifice , that would be satanism
    yes you are right

    today it is called satanism




    Quote Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
    What is the Church

    A more accurate translation would be "assembly" because the term ekklesia was used to refer to a group of people who had been called out to a meeting.

    it is good for the assembly to have an inspirational place where they can assemble

    that's why the churches are beautiful buildings with pinnacles pointing to Heaven

    do you think Christ is not present at the Holy Mass in the churches
    Last edited by RedeZra; 18th May 2010 at 16:51.

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    Thumbs up Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    My thanks to all~ for allowing this thread to expand into a more positive and healing light.

    To ~ Menkaure, Firinn, Tusa and bluestflame~ for sharing your experiences and thoughts~

    To truthseekerdan, for contributing some very insightful info into the definition and concept of the term 'church' .... and of course greybeard (Chris) and RedeZra for expanding upon these issues with heartfelt understanding and clarity.

    Much blessing
    humbly yours<>gio

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    Avalon Member truthseekerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    it is good for the assembly to have an inspirational place where they can assemble

    that's why the churches are beautiful buildings with pinnacles pointing to Heaven

    do you think Christ is not present at the Holy Mass in the churches
    RedeZra, if you refer to churches as buildings or temples, that's where the pyramids come into play.
    However, it's more to elaborate here since pyramids are not ordinary buildings, and are build in certain energetic places on earth.
    If you'd like to find out more what Christ stands for, I recommend you this read here
    A bit long to read, but well worth the time...

    Love,

    Dan
    Unity Consciousness
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    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Quote Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
    If you'd like to find out more what Christ stands for, I recommend you this read here
    A bit long to read, but well worth the time...
    lol are you saying I got Christ wrong

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    what if the "crucifixion" is just a holographic insert that was used to enslave humanity further....a "cross of fiction"(crucifixion)..the idea that one man sacrificed his life to save us all from our sins and damnation is one powerful inserted belief that perpetuates victim/victimiser..saviour control..guilt.sin,etc...what if the image of Jesus on the cross was used by the controllers to symbolise how they have implanted humans andDNA has been shut down and everytime someone worships jesus on the cross they are in fact empowering man's enslavery...what a great source of power and amusement the controllers get fromwatchingignorant humanity worship their own enslavement....the "crucifiction" implant is being removed...stay tuned to Lisa Renee of energeticsynthesis.com and Ashayana Deanes soon to be released video here and these ideas may not be so outrageous when you learn about the bigger picture

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    Default Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    It makes sense that most of the churche's consumers are of the third world

    Religion is the people's opiate.
    It allows people to become complacent and not have to worry about this world because if they follow the rules they are then able to achieve the kingdom of god.

    Why do you think in the inner cities and ghettos of the U.S. you see....pawn shop, liquor store, CHURCH

    Getting the poor people in the world effectively puts the majority of mankind into a state of complancency. It makes people not have to care about fixing things in this reality

    Chicken hawks....they prey on people!!!!
    Today a man on acid realized that all of matter is merely energy condensed into a slow moving vibration, that we are all one, and there is no such thing as death. Life is but a dream.
    Here's Tom with the weather.....
    -Bill Hicks

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    Lightbulb Re: At the Vatican, Up Against the World

    Very interesting concept shiva777

    i remember reading years ago "Seth" (via Jane Roberts) explaining in the book "Seth Speaks ~the Eternal Validity Of The Soul" about this and that there was actually three Christ beings
    i will review the material and comment on it soon~ thanks for the post Shiva

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