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Thread: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    What a beautiful story, Bill. Thanks so much for posting it! Your warmth towards this poor chap must have felt like a little sunshine pouring into a stormy life. Masculine warmth is a real gift--coming from an older caring man to a younger man. It could easily have been the first time it happened to him. And maybe he, in turn, will play that role for some dispossessed young man, in the future. One week of effort for you, may leave an ongoing legacy that will out-live you. Amazing!

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    What was it about him that gave you the impulse to keep going with him? If we could only delineate which toxic people are
    capable or willing to transform and which are just vampires with no intention of changing!!!

    I too cried.

    Good story to pass on to toxic people

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Thanks for the good fight/ uplifting story.

    It's something many of us can relate.

    Sometimes we don't get to see the positive effects we my have in people's lives and and begin to feel it's a pointless effort.

    In the end we are only helping ourselves.

    I just spent two years working with someone, although I helped some, I had to sever ties. I still feel somewhat hurt by the ending of it, but some refuse to be reached.

    Thanks again.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Great story -- I love these. But a the same time, there are those (a few on occasion) that still don't (or at the time) get "it" and you have to kick them out of the group. Not because the group is unwilling, but because it may become obvious that harder lessons are required, that are not the groups desire or focus to commit to. Life itself has to handle these.

    At the same time, many, many people that we believe to be in the category I pointed out, are actually in the group that Bill's story resulted in. You have to give people these chances to come to this realization or come to this change, in an environment of full acceptance.

    At work today we had a Landmark Introduction meeting, and I was brought back to the course of the Landmark Forum (something I took many years ago). Same thing here, many many participants getting to that point of realizing they DID belong! And the Universe wasn't against them, merely they were against them-self. Coming to that realization and breaking through is one of the most wonderful experiences to either go through, or see someone else go through.

    Inspiring story Bill, for sure, thanks for that!
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 14th September 2013 at 02:58.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Thank you Bill, I say this with tears in my eyes, just what I needed to read.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Great story Bill. Is the personal development thing something you'd still get involved in or does the Project Avalon take up all your time?

    It reinforces my conviction that the only effective way to personal happiness lies through the helping of others. All of the most deeply satisying events in my life have involved helping others - whether it be saving my employer a great deal of financial trouble by solving a long-standing software problem, rescuing a man from drowning, or helping my daughter though some rough patches at school. When I reflect on any of my selfish acts (and there are many), on the other hand, they give me no such satisfaction.

    What you have just proved is that this guy already had it in him, and it just needed bringing out, and you and the others acted as the catalyst or midwife, in this respect.
    Last edited by happyuk; 14th September 2013 at 07:54. Reason: fix typo

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    In the healing game the two most fundamental issues are self acceptance and choice. Presumably choosing healing.
    The former makes the latter possible. If you can't stand yourself, it's hard to be fair.
    All any healer is, is a facilitator. That's not such a big deal. Who will DO it? That IS a big deal.
    It's nice to have a story that you can both share and acknowledge yourself for what you are.
    I HOPE you're doing that. It'd be interesting to hear the story the way he'd tell it.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Joe changed himself but, it was your thoughts or thinking that paved the way for joe to seize the opportunity for change ... way to go Mr. Ryan changing the world one life at a time , sometimes going against the grain , when others are in doubt ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Quote Posted by ghostrider (here)
    Joe changed himself but, it was your thoughts or thinking that paved the way for joe to seize the opportunity for change ... way to go Mr. Ryan changing the world one life at a time , sometimes going against the grain , when others are in doubt ...
    Probably a bit more than that: Bill had a bunch of witnesses who will have been stimulated to achieve more themselves by being touched at first hand by this change. And what about the girl Joe helped down the mountain?


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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------


    "This has been the first time I ever felt I belonged to the human race."

    Then he began to cry.

    That set us all off.
    That one got to me as well.


    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    "You saved my life. I would either have killed myself, or killed someone else."


    I would say a thank you to Joe for responding to the calling to attend the group meetings. And finding himself in the right place at the right time.

    It appears that his act of compassion helping the injured lady triggered the beginning of a compassionate journey for him.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    He paused. "You're a sound geezer."

    (Cockney: 'you're an okay person'. )
    Aye yer a Gid Lad Bill. I take my hat of to you.
    Last edited by Billy; 14th September 2013 at 13:42.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Great story Bill, thanks for sharing. You managed to touch my heart and bring a tear to my aye once again, like you did in Vilcabamba couple of years ago.
    Last edited by Camilo; 14th September 2013 at 21:01.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Thank you for it... i feel empowered now... I like the way you express feelings and thoughts, and I also miss your voice, it would be fantastic to hear you once in a while in a an audio or video clip.
    Yours,
    Peace&Love

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Quote Posted by ghostrider (here)
    .....way to go Mr. Ryan changing the world one life at a time.....
    .....like the drop that becomes the ocean.....
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Wonderful story, Bill.
    Last edited by doodah; 15th September 2013 at 03:00. Reason: to remove off topic question

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    The first time he ever felt like he was a part of the human race. Understandable. How many of us can relate to that? For many years, I didn't want to be affiliated with humanity, let alone related. There are still times I don't feel connected but I recognize the irony.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Thanks Bill for sharing such a wonderful and inspiring story.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)

    When the aggressive males died, so did the architecture and hierarchy of violence, the Machiavellian nightmare for that baboon clan..ended.

    The important part:

    When new males wandered in to join the now peaceful(in comparison) group, they quickly learned that violence and anger, etc, was not the way of this given clan and settled down into the group consensus.

    If too may violent and 'other raised/oriented' males came into the clan at the same time, ie too much new male blood from more violent groups, then this new status quo might change. But it had held for nearly 20 years.

    The lesson is that one must hang on, to persevere in the face of violence, dominance, and forced Machiavellian tendencies, in order to end them.

    Do not allow them to gather, as like seeks like.

    Do not respond in kind.

    Do not allow them to dominate, as their influence becomes the influence toward and in all. (disruption, ie, 'order out of chaos', their actual motto)

    Only the GROUP can change the violent and dominant toward a more peaceful path. The GROUP must understated that and never waver or bow in the face of the few.
    Carmody,

    I've always appreciated your posts, your wisdom, I guess that boils down to appreciating "you" (LOL). Thank you for your kindness; thank you for your time. I write to all, as much as I write to you, and to myself.

    You remind me of the fact that we all share a higher consciousness, and that in this higher consciousness we are still incorporate individuals but together, we also create a oneness, as you pointed out in the group. On the ground floor, where things are built, as well as in the spirit, this relates to purpose or, intent. In groups, survival is made easier; yet, for eons, the question still remains, "Why am I here?"; "Why are we here?" Is it all about survival? Whether it is or isn't, are we successful, as an individual, as a group?

    Is aspiring to a higher understanding for all of mankind the intent? What is altruism, it's parameter, it's depth, as it relates to all living beings on the planet? What is love? We can argue that it is the CO2 poisoning the air but that isn't the real problem, is it; that isn't the root cause. Why do we deny it? Do we deny it to ourselves when we are alone, or typing anonymously? Why, as a group, do we go against our own better understandings? Writ answers of greed, etc... just don't get it. We don't care to face ourselves or, if we do, we don't care to do anything about it. We don't rise to the occasion meet it. We don't look at our problems squarely in the face.

    Bohemian Grove has popped into my mind more than once over the last week, particularly the ritual of freeing one's self of care. Freeing one's self of care is really rationalizing a total lack of personal responsibility for anything you do, we do. This idea seems to have permeated throughout all of mankind. How did this thought, and that is all it is, over-shadow the though of how important it is to live in balance with nature?

    This thought of not caring and Bohemian Grove came up in my head when I viewed a video taken by a friend. The video starred a brown bear that had walked alone onto a busy public city street in the middle of the day. I can't say he wondered, as I knew the city; the bear was far too deep into it to have stumbled upon it. As the bear climbed the few stairs up to hug the side of a municipal building, people gathered closer and started snapping pictures with their phones. The paparazzi consisted of men, women, mothers, little children all edging closer. Some even ventured up the stairs to get that perfect shot. Clearly the bear was seeking something, water, food, a way to get back from where s/he came. Or, maybe he was lonely, tired and bravely come to send us a message of desperation, as the last Mohican? Water, give me water. Did anyone give him water? Clearly, outnumbered this bear was terrified and sad.

    I was sad after watching it. More importantly, I was ashamed of myself, I was ashamed of all of us. We are strolling, you and I, whether we want to admit it or not. If we continue to stroll down this current path, the very best we will be able to say of ourselves is that we may have learned a lesson, though I highly doubt it because learning a lesson demands action after the fact. If we continue to follow the leaders who tout Agenda 21, while seeking the cheapest labor on the planet and then shipping the product to be sold to 1st world nations we will not only destroy ourselves we will destroy most every species on the planet. Note: One big cargo ship is equivalent to 50 million cars on the road. Clearly Agenda 21 has hi-jacked the environmental movement. What looks good on the outside, isn't always the case. Are solar panels really the answer to our energy problems? Is geothermal or wind the answer? Why socialize medicine? Why not socialize energy?

    Why not talk about the real problems we have? Clearly, our group thinking is totally messed up. And why not talk openly about over-population? Is it a crime to recognize the fact that we have too many people on the planet? We cannot constrain ourselves by looking at the big picture? We can't figure out that our children probably won't survive in an over-populated state? Will crowding a bunch of people into the cities make it better?

    We are not taking personal responsibility; we are not caring. We have well tipped the scale of balance. We are not communicating with one another about the real issues or the real solutions. Even the sustainable energy movement is cowed by the PTB. We are evading and avoiding facing ourselves, as if talking about the real issues was taboo! We worship at the alter of freedom of care. Religion has been used against it own idealism. The Ten Commandments offer excellent advice. What does it mean to be a good shepherd?

    Let's rid ourselves of the over-whelming spirit of Bohemian Grove. First step, dismantle Bohemian Grove then, bless the land. We must learn from our own history and not allow ourselves to be taken over by worshiping false spirit gods.

    Foremost, let us over-come our current status by recognizing what we must do going forward. We must acknowledge the fact that we are over-populated and then take the rational steps to change that situation over time but with intent and higher understanding by all. Lying will do no good. Manipulation isn't the answer.

    We must also side-step the ptb and claim clean energy as the best solution to the energy problems we face today, which isn't to say we must waste it snapping ego pictures and playing games, when we should be concentrating on straightening ourselves out.

    And we must cherish our brother species by doing everything we can to help them hold on until we get it together. We must help them to survive for a few more decades - until we reach a balance. We have a choice as to how we reach that balance. I don't want to kill everything off in war. Do you agree? If so, that statement literally demands I do something else, we do something else.
    Last edited by sygh; 16th September 2013 at 17:51.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Charles was the first thing that popped into my head too!!
    whenever I come across people like the guy in Bill's story my stomach does a flip as I see the hurt and anger eating these people up, I try and remind myself of how pure they were when they were born. I just feel so sorry for them. All that energy wasted spewing out anger and bitterness.
    Last edited by Irishmammy; 16th September 2013 at 20:55. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    Great story Bill. It has been my experience if you send out love to previously hated and confused individuals- their own love power emerges from deep within their soul, Like will always attract like - that was why he was there that week- his love needed to see the light.

    Give a man a value and he will step up to the mark.

    We must all try to send that love expectation out there- you will see miracles if you give it a sincere try. STO is STS.
    Last edited by sheme; 16th September 2013 at 21:11.

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    Default Re: The story of an epiphany. Should a toxic person leave a group, or hang in there and change their life?

    *tears here too*
    We're all in this together.
    The redeeming power of love can literally work miracles.
    The 'rebellion' of the Mind, having the Mind run the show, is the Luciferian rebellion of wanting to leave Love-Christ-Heart behind and create a universe without the 'pesky feeling of the heart' holding it back
    ~ Tobias Lars

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