+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1 3 13 14 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 274

Thread: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

  1. Link to Post #41
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th January 2011
    Location
    North Texas
    Language
    English
    Age
    76
    Posts
    28,643
    Thanks
    30,559
    Thanked 138,818 times in 21,552 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by GlassSteagallfan (here)
    When only the Fed is purchasing bonds, default is near.
    That's not the key trigger, in my view, but just an alarming appearance.

    Our usual economic theories are serving us poorly here. We have to begin again at the beginning to understand what is going on.

    We all need or desire food, clothing, shelter, tools, transportation, communication, learning, healing, and such.

    In a primitive economy, you have what you can make or grow, or what you can barter or share with neighbors.

    In a monetary economy, money becomes the intermediary, allowing for vastly larger, more complex and more specialized economies. In such an economy, people work for money, and in turn use that to purchase their other more specific needs and desires.

    The key question in a monetary economy is how that money is introduced into the economy. If money is gold, found by mining, then you will have lots of mining going on, and those well positioned in the gold business will get rich. If money is lent into existence, then you will have lots of lending going on, and those well placed in the lending business will get rich. If money is issued by the state for the construction of "great works", then your pyramids may outlast your empire.

    In any such case, there is the risk that the business of money creation will overwhelm the "real" economy of production, distribution and consumption of "real" goods, such as food, clothing, shelter, tools, transportation, communication, learning, and healing. The easier it is to leverage up the money making business, the faster this happens. With big money now being all electronic, involving fancy computer managed derivatives, swaps, options and such, the big banks have recently gotten really good at this task of leveraging up debt paper.

    The essential problem comes about when the "using money to make money" activty overwhelms the "using money to make real goods and services" activity. The real economy then begins to rot. The essential feedback mechanisms that make it likely that the more valued needs of the people will be produced and delivered start to break down.

    The money makers become a cancer on society. Eventually, the cancer begins to feed on its own toxic effluent, having (in the case of debt based money) insufficient real goods and services to hypothicate (to serve as collateral.) The cancer feeds on itself, because there is too little healthy tissue left to invade.

    We are now seeing a shortage of debt paper that has quality collateral behind it. The Federal Reserve is sucking up the remaining quality paper (trillions of Treasuries and Mortgage Backed Securities on its balance sheet), in exchange for multi-trillion dollar reserve balances at the major banks, which they are leveraging to play in the stock, bond and currency markets, in order to stave off their bankruptcy.

    Federal Reserve quantitative easing (QE) is not like Zimbabwe or Weimar Republic hyperinflation, characterized by the (actual) printing of paper money with increasing numbers of zeros. QE is the vacuuming up of the remaining quality debt paper, in order to keep the big banks, which are already deeply bankrupt in toxic paper, from collapsing, by exchanging the paper for reserve balances at the Reserve. QE is another round of this Ponzi debt scheme, focused on an increasingly narrow set of beneficiaries ... just the big banks, which own the Fed.

    This is leaving all other investors, retirement funds, savings holders, etc increasingly bereft of good investment options. The bond and stock market will appear good ... until they collapse to a tiny fraction of their current value, as the big banks, in their dying breath, sell everything that is not nailed down. The stock market collapse of 1929 was based on excessively leveraged stock market investing by many investors, large and small, trading "on margin." This collapse will be far worse, because the current market is almost completely controlled by the high speed trading of a few large banks and hedge funds. When Deutsche, HSBC, Goldman, JPMorgan, Citi, BofA, Morgan Stanley and Wells Fargo all hit the SELL NOW button at once, it's going to be an epoch bad hair day on Wall Street.

    We are actually in a mix of a deflationary and inflationary depression. Unless you're a big bank, money is harder to get (much harder say to get a mortgage today than it was in 2007, and much harder to find a good paying job now then then) but money purchases less (because the "real" economy is collapsing.) Meanwhile, people with liquid assets in excess of their immediate needs are finding it increasingly impossible to find any "safe" investment, anywhere in the world. The gold bugs are telling us that that is the "safe" investment for such times, and historically it has been. But whether it turns out to be again such in this monetary collapse remains, in my view, to be seen.

    The monetary system is becoming a complete farce, a false flag operation in the extreme, a dog and pony show, pure Kabuki Theatre. The objective is to get us all sufficiently stressed financially that we are desperate for basic needs, so that they can burn the "house" down and impose a new "house" (monetary system, with associated political, police, surveillance, enforcement, legal, political and institutional mechanisms) without having us all give them the middle finger, and with most of us having little choice but (1) accept the deal or (2) starve or (3) die or be imprisoned.

    Most likely this present show ends when the master money makers decide it is time to torch the theatre in which we sit, viewing the show. They hope to do that when we are in the proper state of fear and trembling that they can control the panic'd crowd, guarantee their position on the best appointed life boats and retain their control and dominance. There may well be one or two more "spectacular" events in store for us, to help "set the stage."

    Rising interest rates, especially on US Treasuries, will be the trigger, and interest rate swaps (derivatives) that Warren Buffet correctly termed weapons of mass financial destruction, will be the financial nuclear bombs, that will be used to torch this theatre.

    This will cause overnight bank lending rates (repo rates) to skyrocket. For example, JPMorgan won't lend one lousy dollar to Citi for even one day, for less than CEO Michael Corbat's right arm, out of fear that Citi won't be there the next day to repay.

    The failure of these derivatives will cause major banks to fail catastrophically, and shut down most of the remaining "real" economy, which cannot function without a working banking system. The remaining "economic activity" will be either what can be done on primitive, local, means, or what can be imposed by tyrannical martial law and central government control of all basic essentials.

    Most "paper" wealth, in banks and brokerages will evaporate, and most future promises to pay pensions and benefits will be forfeited. Property used to secure debt and taxes (people's homes) will risk being foreclosed. The actual worth of a paper dollar bill will become highly unstable, as increasingly no one will have any, and no one will want any.

    A collapse of the Japanese or portions of the European bonds markets may well presage this final rise in US Treasury interest rates.

    In 2008, the big banks and their wholly owned central banks vacuumed up the previous bubble in mortgage backed securities. Sometime in the next year or three, the next bubble, in US Treasuries, will pop. Some guys with lots of guns, bullets and drones will vacuum that one up.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 30th September 2013 at 10:08.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

  2. The Following 28 Users Say Thank You to ThePythonicCow For This Post:

    Abhaya (30th September 2013), Calz (30th September 2013), centreoflight (30th September 2013), Corncrake (30th September 2013), Cristian (30th September 2013), Czarek (1st October 2013), Darla Ken Pearce (30th September 2013), Eram (30th September 2013), Gardener (30th September 2013), golden lady (30th September 2013), greybeard (30th September 2013), gripreaper (30th September 2013), heretogrow (30th September 2013), lastlegs (30th September 2013), Marianne (30th September 2013), MorningSong (30th September 2013), norman (30th September 2013), Operator (30th September 2013), Rich (30th September 2013), RMorgan (30th September 2013), Rocky_Shorz (4th October 2013), Roisin (30th September 2013), ROMANWKT (30th September 2013), RunningDeer (30th September 2013), seko (2nd October 2013), TraineeHuman (3rd October 2013), ulli (1st October 2013), Wind (30th September 2013)

  3. Link to Post #42
    United States On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    30th June 2011
    Location
    The Seat of Corruption
    Age
    44
    Posts
    9,177
    Thanks
    25,610
    Thanked 53,662 times in 8,694 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by Marianne (here)
    This is potentially something having very wide-ranging effects on the well being of U.S. citizens and beyond. Not many can truthfully say they feel no fear about it.
    last time it happend (1995) there were 4 planned days off, only 2 actually went unpaid; everyone was back to work in 2 days.

    oh, and everyone got paid later for those two days off.

    I'm told I still have to come to work tomorrow, but might be sent home after I shut everything down.... I'm not opposed to a mini-vacation, especially if it ends up getting paid back later on.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to TargeT For This Post:

    Calz (30th September 2013), Darla Ken Pearce (30th September 2013), heretogrow (30th September 2013), learninglight (30th September 2013), soleil (30th September 2013)

  5. Link to Post #43
    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    Smurfin' USA
    Posts
    11,061
    Thanks
    84,330
    Thanked 69,379 times in 10,490 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Marianne (here)
    This is potentially something having very wide-ranging effects on the well being of U.S. citizens and beyond. Not many can truthfully say they feel no fear about it.
    last time it happend (1995) there were 4 planned days off, only 2 actually went unpaid; everyone was back to work in 2 days.

    oh, and everyone got paid later for those two days off.

    I'm told I still have to come to work tomorrow, but might be sent home after I shut everything down.... I'm not opposed to a mini-vacation, especially if it ends up getting paid back later on.

    Yep ... the puppets are doing their best to give the illusion that there is real choice ... real government serving the public they (allegedly) represent.

    Nonsense.

    Despite concerns raised by a few who *would* be impacted here (no disrespect to any hardship on their behalf) ... let there be no doubt the vast core of the beast will continue without skipping a beat.

    3 letter agencies ... military ... politicians ... courts and "law enforcement"???

    Get real ...



    Quote 10. If nothing changes, does the government shut down?

    Yes, for the first time since late 1995. That one lasted 21 days, into 1996.

    11. How will it happen?

    There won't be a thunderclap or clang of bells. First order of business? Draw up a dividing line between workers deemed essential or non-essential. Those in the first category will carry on operations. The others will power down until Congress comes to its senses and funds the government.

    So, for example, park rangers would start locking up national parks. And most furloughed federal workers are supposed to be out of their offices within four hours of the start of business Tuesday.

    12. How many government workers could be furloughed?

    Most of the 3.3 million government workers are deemed "essential" -- they'll keep working. But more than 783,000 government employees will sit at home, according to a CNN analysis of contingency plans published by the federal government on Friday. Not all government agencies submitted contingency plans.

    13. What will this do to the economy?

    Depends on how long it lasts. If it's just a few days, the hit might not be severe. But three or four weeks? "(That) would do significant economic damage" -- reducing GDP by 1.4 percentage points for the quarter, says Mark Zandi, chief economist and co-founder of Moody's Analytics.

    14. How will this affect me?

    In ways big and small. The mail will continue to come. The military will continue to fight. And Social Security checks will continue to be paid.

    But if you need a federal loan to buy a house, you'll have to wait. If you want a gun permit or a passport, that won't happen anytime soon.


    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1
    Last edited by Calz; 30th September 2013 at 17:06.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Calz For This Post:

    Darla Ken Pearce (30th September 2013), Gardener (30th September 2013), ROMANWKT (30th September 2013), RunningDeer (30th September 2013)

  7. Link to Post #44
    United States Avalon Member Darla Ken Pearce's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th February 2011
    Location
    Sandpoint, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,436
    Thanks
    18,303
    Thanked 8,609 times in 1,338 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Everything you need to know about how a government shutdown works...


    My note: The question in my mind is what will happen if these clowns don't agree on at least some basics. So I was glad to see this article describing exactly what will happen. I was concerned about my social security check and this answers that important question at least for me and perhaps many others. Since I found it helpful and reassuring, I thought you might, too:

    This article is from the Washington Post ~ By Brad Plumer, Published: September 24 at 10:09 am


    If the House and Senate can't agree on a government funding bill by Sept. 30, the federal government will shut down. And, right now, the House and Senate can't agree on a bill. They're wrangling over Obamacare.


    The photograph is cleverly shot to make it look like the gates of the federal government are literally closing. Neat, eh? (The Washington Post)


    So... it's time to start thinking about what a federal government shutdown would actually look like.

    Not all government functions would simply evaporate come Oct. 1 — Social Security checks would still get mailed, and veterans' hospitals would stay open. But many federal agencies would shut their doors and send their employees home, from the Department of Education to hundreds of national parks.

    Here's a look at how a shutdown would work, which parts of the government would close, and which parts of the economy might be affected.

    Wait, what? Why is the federal government on the verge of shutting down?

    For the rest of the article, here is the link:


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ment-shutdown/

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Darla Ken Pearce For This Post:

    Calz (30th September 2013), Rocky_Shorz (30th September 2013), Roisin (30th September 2013), ROMANWKT (30th September 2013), RunningDeer (1st October 2013), Wind (30th September 2013)

  9. Link to Post #45
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    15th March 2010
    Posts
    10,068
    Thanks
    12,891
    Thanked 32,308 times in 7,756 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    we learned the last time on a failed congress that the Treasurer along with the Fed can keep US afloat without disruption for 3-5 months...

    this is all a big show, a game on how not to run a country just to make a political statement.

    Congress was told to work on lowering health care costs, but in 6 years, they haven't even mentioned it...

    they just keep on the same old circle, running after their own tails thinking things will change...

    those pushing us into a shut down will be tarred and feathered for the next election and will be tossed out with the trash...

    forget government, this is only affecting those with money right now, and they have the power to crush anyone who thinks they are being smart...

    Epic fail once again by the GOteaParty...

  10. Link to Post #46
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Age
    48
    Posts
    1,109
    Thanks
    2,733
    Thanked 2,430 times in 818 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    we learned the last time on a failed congress that the Treasurer along with the Fed can keep US afloat without disruption for 3-5 months...

    this is all a big show, a game on how not to run a country just to make a political statement.

    Congress was told to work on lowering health care costs, but in 6 years, they haven't even mentioned it...

    they just keep on the same old circle, running after their own tails thinking things will change...

    those pushing us into a shut down will be tarred and feathered for the next election and will be tossed out with the trash...

    forget government, this is only affecting those with money right now, and they have the power to crush anyone who thinks they are being smart...

    Epic fail once again by the GOteaParty...
    Rocky, you are one of the brightest guys on this forum yet you still fall for this bull****. There is so little hope.

  11. Link to Post #47
    United States Avalon Member Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th September 2013
    Location
    The Shire, Middle-earth
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,291
    Thanks
    3,342
    Thanked 8,584 times in 1,239 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by Yep ... the puppets are doing their best to give the illusion that there is real choice ... real government serving the public they (allegedly) represent.

    Nonsense.

    Despite concerns raised by a few who [B

    *would*[/B] be impacted here (no disrespect to any hardship on their behalf) ... let there be no doubt the vast core of the beast will continue without skipping a beat.

    3 letter agencies ... military ... politicians ... courts and "law enforcement"???

    Get real ...
    I'm not convinced that this is the case. I think that for the most part the NWO have left Congress alone (i.e. not infiltrated Congress on a physical level). Although it is very likely that the NWO uses tactics to sway their opinions and influence statistics to give them a false reality, I think that Congress is for the most part genuinely trying to represent the people. I think that this ObamaCare opposition was a bit unexpected by the NWO and that they are a little nervous that Congress is starting to wake up.
    Last edited by Robin; 30th September 2013 at 20:13.
    "Rather than love, than fame, than money, give me truth."
    ~Henry David Thoreau

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Robin For This Post:

    MorningSong (30th September 2013)

  13. Link to Post #48
    United States Avalon Member Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th September 2013
    Location
    The Shire, Middle-earth
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,291
    Thanks
    3,342
    Thanked 8,584 times in 1,239 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    we learned the last time on a failed congress that the Treasurer along with the Fed can keep US afloat without disruption for 3-5 months...

    this is all a big show, a game on how not to run a country just to make a political statement.

    Congress was told to work on lowering health care costs, but in 6 years, they haven't even mentioned it...

    they just keep on the same old circle, running after their own tails thinking things will change...

    those pushing us into a shut down will be tarred and feathered for the next election and will be tossed out with the trash...

    forget government, this is only affecting those with money right now, and they have the power to crush anyone who thinks they are being smart...

    Epic fail once again by the GOteaParty...
    Rocky, you are one of the brightest guys on this forum yet you still fall for this bull****. There is so little hope.
    Even if there is so little hope, there is still hope. I am an idealistic-realistic-optimist. As soon as you start saying that "there is so little hope," then you will start believing "there is so little help," and pretty soon you will start manifesting this reality.

    There is always hope.
    "Rather than love, than fame, than money, give me truth."
    ~Henry David Thoreau

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Robin For This Post:

    Anchor (30th September 2013), Calz (30th September 2013), MorningSong (30th September 2013), Rocky_Shorz (1st October 2013), Wind (30th September 2013)

  15. Link to Post #49
    United States Avalon Member gripreaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd January 2011
    Posts
    3,979
    Thanks
    9,625
    Thanked 29,685 times in 3,744 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Most "paper" wealth, in banks and brokerages will evaporate, and most future promises to pay pensions and benefits will be forfeited. Property used to secure debt and taxes (people's homes) will risk being foreclosed. The actual worth of a paper dollar bill will become highly unstable, as increasingly no one will have any, and no one will want any.
    Excellent synopsis Paul, with this paragraph being the central point for most people who still believe they have assets which they can draw upon, even if times get tough. Its going to be a rude awakening for the remaining middle class who will lose the most in terms of hard assets they "think" they own and have control over.

    Their stocks and bonds imploding is a pretty easy one to surmise, as well as the dilution of their cash, but what about their house? Well, even if it is paid for, they don't own it. The security which they signed at the closing table, which is a negotiable instrument, a draft, same as cash, they GAVE to the banksters who have leveraged it and resold it 100 times. Remember, you ABANDONED the security by not claiming it within the first three years, and the banksters filed a 1099A with the IRS and took possession of it, since you did not claim it. So, someone owns your money you abandoned. Someone owns the house as collateral against that security you abandoned. They are going to "call" in that leveraged security and demand the collateral one day when this implodes, and many will be out in the street as a result. Even those who rent will be in jeopardy of being displaced.

    There will be no recourse, since you alleged homeowners wittingly or unwittingly gave it all to them, lock, stock and barrel.
    "Lay Down Your Truth and Check Your Weapons
    The Next Voice You Hear Will Be Your OWN"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhS69C1tr0w

  16. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to gripreaper For This Post:

    Calz (30th September 2013), RMorgan (30th September 2013), RunningDeer (30th September 2013), seko (2nd October 2013), ThePythonicCow (30th September 2013), Wind (30th September 2013)

  17. Link to Post #50
    Moderator (on Sabbatical) Harley's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th September 2010
    Age
    72
    Posts
    1,610
    Thanks
    4,159
    Thanked 9,347 times in 1,378 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Just received this.
    Thought you all might find this interesting (if not funny!):

    Quote CNN Breaking News BreakingNews@mail.cnn.com via ema3lsv06.turner.com
    2:25 PM (11 minutes ago)

    to textbreakingne.
    One faction of one party does not get to shut down the government to fight the results of an election, President Barack Obama said.

    "You don't get to extract a ransom for doing your job," Obama said. With a midnight deadline looming, a government shutdown is not inevitable, he said.

    Obama's remarks came as a new CNN/ORC International Poll finds that 31% say they see the tea party in a favorable light. Fifty-four percent say they hold an unfavorable view of the movement, an all-time high in CNN polling.

    The survey indicates that 48% hold an unfavorable opinion of House Speaker John Boehner and 45% see Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in a negative light, the highest unfavorable ratings for both leaders ever in CNN polling.

    Follow complete coverage of the looming government shu tdown on CNN TV, CNN.com and CNN Mobile.
    Harley

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Harley For This Post:

    Calz (30th September 2013)

  19. Link to Post #51
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    11th June 2011
    Posts
    2,179
    Thanks
    6,186
    Thanked 13,405 times in 1,922 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by AMystic3434 (here)
    There will be no government shutdown I guarantee it. They will agree on some bs plan last minute. They always do.
    I agree, it's this silly power game to spread fear and do what needs to be done at the very last minute, just to show people what they still can do.

  20. Link to Post #52
    United States Avalon Member lizfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th July 2012
    Location
    Deer Creek - Edmond, OK
    Posts
    149
    Thanks
    417
    Thanked 590 times in 123 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Well said. What I wonder is what are they trying to divert us from? Usually when these false flags are in the MSN it means there is something dark/secretive happening behind the curtain. Guess we will see.

    Quote Posted by Camilo (here)
    Quote Posted by AMystic3434 (here)
    There will be no government shutdown I guarantee it. They will agree on some bs plan last minute. They always do.
    I agree, it's this silly power game to spread fear and do what needs to be done at the very last minute, just to show people what they still can do.

  21. Link to Post #53
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    11th June 2011
    Posts
    2,179
    Thanks
    6,186
    Thanked 13,405 times in 1,922 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    The latest inside news:

    The Global Currency ReSet is being voted on RIGHT NOW (Monday 12pm PST) in the House and the Senate...it's come down TO THE WIRE and right now it appears that the U.S. is the only element holding this ReSet up...and that there are many contracts that were put in place, even from 10 years ago for this plan, to are to be effective tomorrow, October 1st 2013.

  22. Link to Post #54
    Australia Avalon Member Positive Vibe Merchant's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th April 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    47
    Posts
    668
    Thanks
    2,366
    Thanked 1,640 times in 546 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    I think they are holding off to sign all the papers for contracts that they need before the deadline. This is really heating up.
    I am the underdog, I am one of many faces,
    In a room full of people, I wouldn't change any places

  23. Link to Post #55
    United States Avalon Member Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th September 2013
    Location
    The Shire, Middle-earth
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,291
    Thanks
    3,342
    Thanked 8,584 times in 1,239 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by lizfrench (here)
    Well said. What I wonder is what are they trying to divert us from? Usually when these false flags are in the MSN it means there is something dark/secretive happening behind the curtain. Guess we will see.

    Quote Posted by Camilo (here)
    Quote Posted by AMystic3434 (here)
    There will be no government shutdown I guarantee it. They will agree on some bs plan last minute. They always do.
    I agree, it's this silly power game to spread fear and do what needs to be done at the very last minute, just to show people what they still can do.
    I very much disagree with this. It doesn't make sense for the NWO jerks to be playing around now. Obamacare is their precious darling project that they NEED to put into effect. Congress is seriously undermining this plan right now. The NWO cannot afford to have anybody question the validity of Obamacare, otherwise they will begin to question other things as well.

    I believe that Congress is seriously trying to throw them off and the NWO are getting antsy.
    "Rather than love, than fame, than money, give me truth."
    ~Henry David Thoreau

  24. Link to Post #56
    Moderator (on Sabbatical) Harley's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th September 2010
    Age
    72
    Posts
    1,610
    Thanks
    4,159
    Thanked 9,347 times in 1,378 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Two hours to go:

    Quote CNN Breaking News BreakingNews@mail.cnn.com via ema3lsv06.turner.com
    6:40 PM (19 minutes ago)

    to textbreakingne.
    For the second time today, the Senate has rejected a House Republican effort to derail Obamacare tied to a spending bill that would avert a government shutdown at midnight.

    The Democratic-controlled Senate voted to table amendments that would have delayed the individual mandate in the health care law and eliminated health insurance premium subsidies for members of Congress, their staffs and the president.

    House Republicans were to meet and discuss their next steps.
    Harley

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Harley For This Post:

    ThePythonicCow (1st October 2013)

  26. Link to Post #57
    Australia Avalon Member
    Join Date
    23rd June 2011
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,189
    Thanks
    264
    Thanked 4,468 times in 950 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    please explain what Government Shutdown is about?

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to apokalypse For This Post:

    Nickolai (1st October 2013), Positive Vibe Merchant (1st October 2013)

  28. Link to Post #58
    United States Avalon Member Robin's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th September 2013
    Location
    The Shire, Middle-earth
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,291
    Thanks
    3,342
    Thanked 8,584 times in 1,239 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by apokalypse (here)
    please explain what Government Shutdown is about?
    The United States has different factions of government to balance the power. Of course, this balance has been shattered with the NWO since the Founding of the US in 1776. The United States Constitution shares power between the three branches: Legislative, Executive, and Judicial.

    The Untied States Congress (composed of the Senate and House of Representatives) prevent the US president from having too much power (like a dictator) by keeping the President's laws in check.

    Because Obama is trying to pass the health care law Obamacare for another year of funding, and Congress does not want to approve it, there is currently a "battle" between the two factions. Congress does not want to approve the Obamacare law because of its corrupt outline and negative history. Obamacare has been in effect for three years now and has caused much turmoil. Because Obama is part of the NWO (which needs this law to enslave humanity), he will not negotiate with Congress on the issue.

    Because Congress and Obama cannot come up with an agreement on how best to fund Obamacare, the government will shut down. This means that all funding will stop for non-essential services in the US. These non-essential services include National Parks, Wildlife Refuges, and Museums. The military, police force, hospitals, and all essential services will continue to be funded because they are essential for citizen well-being.

    The Untied States fiscal year date is October 1st, where all funding is squared out for the next year. So that's why tonight is important. If a resolution isn't made at midnight on September 30th, there will be a partial shutdown.

    So basically, 800,000 workers will be sent home for a duration until Congress and the president can come up with an agreement on funding. This can last a few hours, days, or even months--who knows!! Until a resolution is made, the country will be at unrest. But we'll be on unrest no matter what the US government tries to do.
    Last edited by Robin; 1st October 2013 at 02:59.
    "Rather than love, than fame, than money, give me truth."
    ~Henry David Thoreau

  29. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Robin For This Post:

    goldmother (1st October 2013), KiwiElf (1st October 2013), MorningSong (1st October 2013), Nickolai (1st October 2013), panopticon (1st October 2013), Positive Vibe Merchant (1st October 2013), Wind (1st October 2013)

  30. Link to Post #59
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th January 2011
    Location
    North Texas
    Language
    English
    Age
    76
    Posts
    28,643
    Thanks
    30,559
    Thanked 138,818 times in 21,552 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by Harley Hawkins (here)
    Two hours to go
    The clock has struck midnight in Washington, DC. It is now October 1, 2013 there, and the US government is "partially" shutdown, which means some non-essential workers will are furlowed, and some government service offices will not open. Initially at least, the effects will be modest, unless you are one of those workers now on "vacation" which won't necessarily be paid, or one of those Americans who intended to do business at one of the now closed government offices tomorrow.

    From ZeroHedge:
    It's 12:01am, do you know where your government is?
    • WHITE HOUSE BUDGET OFFICE DIRECTS AGENCIES TO BEGIN SHUTDOWN
    • U.S. GOVERNMENT SHUTS DOWN FOR FIRST TIME IN 17 YEARS
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 1st October 2013 at 04:07.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

  31. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ThePythonicCow For This Post:

    Calz (1st October 2013), Eram (1st October 2013), Harley (1st October 2013), MorningSong (1st October 2013), panopticon (1st October 2013), Roisin (1st October 2013), Wind (1st October 2013)

  32. Link to Post #60
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,425
    Thanks
    211,613
    Thanked 459,745 times in 32,946 posts

    Default Re: US Government shutdown, Tuesday Oct 1, 2013

    Quote Posted by apokalypse (here)

    please explain what Government Shutdown is about?
    This might (or might not!) be helpful.

    66 questions and answers about the government shutdown


    (from USA TODAY)


    THE BASICS

    1. What causes a shutdown? Under the Constitution, Congress must pass laws to spend money. If Congress can't agree on a spending bill — or if, in the case of the Clinton-era shutdowns, the president vetoes it — the government does not have the legal authority to spend money.

    2. What's a continuing resolution? Congress used to spend money by passing a budget first, then 12 separate appropriations bills. That process has broken down, and Congress uses a stopgap continuing resolution, or CR, that maintains spending at current levels for all or part of the year.

    3. Why can't Congress agree? The Republican-controlled House has passed a spending bill that maintains spending levels but does not provide funding to implement the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare. The Democratic Senate insists that the program be fully funded and that Congress pass what they call a "clean" CR.

    4. What is a "clean" CR? A continuing resolution without policy changes.

    5. Why is this happening now? The government runs on a fiscal year from Oct. 1 to Sept. 30. Shutdowns can happen at other times of the year when Congress passes a partial-year spending bill.

    6. Could government agencies ignore the shutdown? Under a federal law known as the Anti-Deficiency Act, it can be a felony to spend taxpayer money without an appropriation from Congress.

    7. When would a shutdown begin? When the fiscal year ends at midnight Monday. Most federal workers would report to work Tuesday, but unless they're deemed "essential," they would work no more than four hours on shutdown-related activities before being furloughed.

    8. When would the shutdown end? Immediately after the president signs a spending bill. As a practical matter, it could be noon the following day before most government offices that were shut down would reopen their doors.

    9. How many times has the government shut down in the past? Since 1977, there have been 17 shutdowns, according to the Congressional Research Service.

    10. How long do shutdowns usually last? Most last no more than three days. Some last less than a day.

    11. When was the longest shutdown in history? The longest was also the most recent: from Dec. 16, 1995, through Jan. 5, 1996. That's 21 days.

    12. Would this shutdown be different from those in the 1990s? Yes. When the 1995 shutdown started, Congress had already passed three of 13 appropriations bills. (They funded military construction, agriculture, and energy and water projects.) Also, more government services are automated.

    THE DEBT LIMIT

    13. What's the difference between a shutdown and a debt crisis? In a shutdown, the government lacks the legal authority to spend money on non-essential services. In a debt crisis, the government is mandated to spend money — but doesn't have the legal authority to borrow the money to spend it.

    14. Are the two related? Only by timing, which is somewhat coincidental.

    15. When will the government run out of borrowing authority? Secretary of the Treasury Jacob Lew says it could come as soon as Oct. 17.

    16. Has the United States ever defaulted on its debt before? No.

    17. If the nation hits the debt limit, will government shut down? That's a big unknown question. The Treasury Department has said the most likely scenario is that it would delay payments, paying only those bills it can afford, using daily tax revenue.

    GOVERNMENT SERVICES

    18. Will I still get my mail? Yes. The U.S. Postal Service functions as an independent business unit.

    19. Can I get a passport? Maybe, but hurry. The Department of State says it has some funds outside the annual congressional appropriation. "Consular operations domestically and overseas will remain 100% operational as long as there are sufficient fees to support operations," the department says.

    20. Can I visit national parks? No. The National Park Service says day visitors will be told to leave immediately, and entrances will be closed.

    21. What about campers already in the parks? They will be given two days to leave.

    22. Will Washington museums be open? The Smithsonian, the National Zoo and the Holocaust Museum would all be closed. Private museums, such as the Newseum, the Spy Museum and Mount Vernon, would remain open. Rule of thumb: If it's usually free, it's probably closed.

    23. What about the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts? The Kennedy Center does receive an annual appropriation from Congress, but also runs on ticket revenue and endowment funds. The center expects to stay open through a shutdown.

    24. What about the National Archives?All archives and most presidential libraries will be closed, unless they're operated by a private foundation — as all pre-Herbert Hoover presidential museums are. The Federal Records Center Program, which supports other agencies, would continue to operate because it uses a revolving fund.

    25. Will the District of Columbia shut down? The district does not have complete autonomy and relies on an appropriation from Congress to operate. So during the shutdowns in the 1990s, trash went uncollected, and many city departments closed. In a departure from past shutdowns, Mayor Vincent Gray has informed the Office of Management and Budget that he has deemed all city employees "essential." The district's own attorney general has declared the mayor's plan illegal.

    26. Will the Patent and Trademark Office be open? Yes. The office can continue to operate off user fees and other funds for at least four weeks before having to shut down.

    27. Would food safety inspections continue? Mostly. The Food Safety and Inspection Service would continue all safety-related activities. The Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration would continue inspections to the extent they're paid by user fees, "but inability to investigate alleged violations could hamper corrective action in the long term and could have an immediate impact on members of industry." The Food and Drug Administration would limit its activities but continue to monitor recalls and conduct investigations.

    28. Will the government still release economic data? Probably. The weekly unemployment claims number would still come out, and the September jobs report, due out Friday, probably will, too. The Department of Commerce reasons that some of its data is so economically sensitive that delaying it risks that it will be leaked.

    29. Would the government continue to enforce wage and hour laws? The laws will still be in effect, but the Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division would suspend operations.

    30. Will disaster response be affected? No. However, all "non-disaster" grants — such as state and local preparedness programs — would be postponed, the Department of Homeland Security says.

    31. Will e-Verify be affected? Yes. The government system to allow companies to voluntarily check the legal work status of its employees would be shut down.

    STORY: Blame game for impending shutdown

    GOVERNMENT BENEFITS

    32. Would a shutdown put the brakes on implementing the Affordable Care Act, or "Obamacare?" No. The state-run exchanges for the uninsured would open as scheduled Tuesday. "The marketplaces will be open on Tuesday, no matter what, even if there is a government shutdown," President Obama said Friday.

    33. Why not? Like Social Security or Medicaid, Obamacare is a permanent entitlement that isn't subject to annual funding by Congress. "Many of the core parts of the health care law are funded through mandatory appropriations and wouldn't be affected," Gary Cohen, the Health and Human Services Department official overseeing the health care rollout, said last week.

    34. Would seniors continue to get Social Security benefits? Yes. Social Security is a mandatory spending program, and the people who send those checks would continue to work under a legal doctrine called "necessary implication."

    35. Can I apply for Social Security benefits, appeal a denial of benefits, change my address or sign up for direct deposit? Yes.

    36. Can I get a new or replacement Social Security card, benefit verification statement or earnings record correction? No.

    37. Would the government continue to pay unemployment benefits? Yes. The Employment and Training Administration "will continue to provide essential functions, as occurred during the shutdown of 1995," according to the Department of Labor contingency plan.

    38. Will I be able to get food stamps? Yes. The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) is funded through the Recovery Act and from funds that don't expire for another year, the U.S. Department of Agriculture says.

    39. What about WIC? No money would be available to pay the administrative costs of the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children. But because it's administered by states, there may be state funds available.

    40. And the federal school lunch program? Schools are reimbursed for these costs on a monthly basis and are allowed to carry over funds from the previous fiscal year. The USDA expects most schools will be able to continue providing meals through October.

    41. What will happen to veterans receiving compensation for service- or combat-related wounds and injuries? The Department of Veterans Affairs said if the shutdown continues into late October, it will run out of money for compensation and pension checks to more than 3.6 million veterans who rely on the money to support themselves.

    42. Can I still get a federally backed loan? Maybe not. "Federal loans for rural communities, small business owners, families buying a home will be frozen," President Obama said Friday.

    43. Does that mean I can't get an FHA mortgage? No. The Federal Housing Administration says it "will endorse new loans under current multi-year appropriation authority in order to support the health and stability of the U.S. mortgage market."

    44. Does that mean I can't get a VA mortgage? No. The Department of Veterans Affairs says loans are funded via user fees and should continue. However, during the last shutdown, "loan Guaranty certificates of eligibility and certificates of reasonable value were delayed."

    45. Will deceased veterans still be able to get a burial benefit? Yes. Burial benefits, headstones and death notices will still be available.

    TAXES

    46. Would the IRS continue to collect taxes? Yes. All payments would be processed. More than 12 million people have requested an extension on their 2012 taxes, which expires Oct. 15.

    47. Will my refund be delayed? Possibly, especially if the taxpayer files a paper return.

    48. What about taxpayer assistance? Walk-in assistance centers and telephone hotlines would be closed.

    49. I'm being audited by the IRS. Would a shutdown affect me? Yes. The IRS will suspend all audit activities.

    EMPLOYMENT

    50. How many federal employees would be furloughed? The government has not given an official estimate.

    51. Does anyone have a guess? J. David Cox, president of the American Federation of Government employees, said he expects the number will be 800,000 to 1 million, out of 2.1 million federal employees. That's consistent with a USA TODAY analysis of 2011 shutdown contingency plans, which found that 59% of non-defense government employees would continue to work.

    52. Why do some federal employees continue to work during a shutdown? The law — or at least, the Justice Department's interpretation of it — contains exemptions for several classes of employees: The biggest exemption is for employees necessary to protect public health, safety or property. But property could include government data, ongoing research experiments or other intangibles. Political appointees are exempt because they cannot be placed on leave by law. Employees necessary for the president to carry out his constitutional responsibilities are exempt. Finally, employees whose salaries are paid from sources outside an annual spending bill can still get paid and report to work.

    53. Who decides which employees work and which go home? Each agency is responsible for coming up with its own contingency plan, based on guidance from the Office of Management and Budget and the Office of Personnel Management. Those plans are then sent to the White House for review.

    54. Would the president be paid during a shutdown? Yes. The president's $400,000 salary is mandatory spending. If furloughs begin to affect the government's ability to process payroll, his paycheck could be delayed.

    55. What about White House staff? Some high-ranking presidential appointees are exempt from the Annual and Sick Leave Act of 1951, which means they can essentially be made to work unpaid overtime. Also, any employee necessary for the president to carry out his constitutional duties would be exempt.

    56. And the president's personal aides? The White House has 90 staffers who work in the residence. During a shutdown, 15 of them would stay on the job.

    57. Would Congress continue to be paid during a shutdown? Yes. The 27th Amendment to the Constitution, ratified in 1992, holds that "No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of representatives shall have intervened." Intended to prevent Congress from voting itself a raise, it also protects members from a pay cut.

    58. What about congressional staff? Like other federal employees, they would be deemed essential or non-essential. Essential staff would include those necessary to carry out constitutional responsibilities, such as the parliamentarians, or for protection of members, such as the sergeants-at-arms. Staff of the appropriations committees may also be needed to write the law that would end the shutdown.

    59. Would active-duty military be furloughed? No. All active-duty military are essential and should report as scheduled Tuesday, the Department of Defense said Friday.

    60. Will civilian defense workers be furloughed? About half of them, or about 400,000, will be sent home, according to the Defense Department's contingency plan.

    61. Would active-duty military be paid during a shutdown? If a shutdown lasts longer than a week, the Pentagon might not be able to process its payroll in time for the Oct. 15 paychecks, Defense Department Comptroller Robert Hale said Friday. The House passed a separate bill early Sunday that would appropriate money for active-duty and reserve paychecks regardless of the shutdown — and also pay for support services to make sure they get paid. That bill passed the House 422-0, but still must go to the Senate.

    62. Could federal employees simply volunteer their services? No. A 19th-century federal law forbids volunteers because the government doesn't want them filing claims for back pay after the shutdown is over, according to a legal analysis by Washington attorney Raymond Natter.

    63. Would federal employees get paid retroactively, even if they didn't work? Maybe. Congress granted retroactive pay to furloughed workers after the shutdowns of the mid-1990s, but that wouldn't necessarily happen again. "I believe this time is going to be much different. This is a much different Congress than the 1995 Congress," said Cox, federal employee union president. "I'm not sure that they'd even want to go back and pay the people who worked."

    THE LONG TERM

    64. How much money would a shutdown save taxpayers? Most likely, it wouldn't. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says shutdowns cost money in terms of contingency planning, lost user fees and back pay. A government estimate after the shutdown in 1995-96 estimated its cost at $1.4 billion.

    65. What effect would a shutdown have on the economy? Economists say even a short shutdown — of three or four days — would begin to shave decimal points off economic growth. A sustained shutdown of three or four weeks "would do significant economic damage," economist Mark Zandi told USA TODAY.

    66. What about the stock market? The Standard & Poor's 500 fell 3.7% during the 1995-96 government shutdown, according to S&P Capital IQ. Stocks quickly rebounded after the government got back to work, rising 10.5% the month after the shutdown ended.

  33. The Following 27 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    778 neighbour of some guy (1st October 2013), 7eagle14 (1st October 2013), Abhaya (1st October 2013), amandapoet (1st October 2013), Atlas (1st October 2013), Calz (1st October 2013), Eram (1st October 2013), fifi (1st October 2013), Gardener (1st October 2013), goldmother (1st October 2013), Harley (1st October 2013), Jake (1st October 2013), KiwiElf (1st October 2013), Magnus (1st October 2013), MorningSong (1st October 2013), Nickolai (1st October 2013), nomadguy (2nd October 2013), Omni (1st October 2013), panopticon (1st October 2013), Referee (1st October 2013), Richard S. (1st October 2013), Rocky_Shorz (4th October 2013), Roisin (1st October 2013), seko (2nd October 2013), Spacyman (1st October 2013), ThePythonicCow (1st October 2013), Wind (1st October 2013)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1 3 13 14 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts