Empaths

[4evrneo]

Thank you all for this dialog. It has been helpful to see others perspectives. In the interview that Delight posted about the Narcissistic psychopath, he said something that I didnt quite agree with, about empathy being an aquired learning. Well, he said there is some debate about this. From my own experience, I can remember as a young child, watching my mother heavily drinking and laughing with company but I could feel deep sorrow and pain coming from her. I remember it was confusing to me at first but as time went on, I realized it was a coping mechanism for her to drink and try to hide her pain.

I actually remember many other instances where out of nowhere, I would feel deep pain, or anxiety and look around me to see where it was coming from. This was a very confusing time for me as a child or young teen to suddenly be experiencing something that after a couple minutes would realize it wasnt coming from me. I never talked about these experiences with anyone, I was pretty much alone growing up and I somehow knew that it would be pointless to try to talk to my mother as she was already overwhelmed with things that neither she or I knew how to fix.

Of course today is a different story, although I still have a mother who is lost and constantly in emotional pain, I have run a self course over the years so to speak on learning who not to approach and who I can approach with what I feel from them, some have responded well and some dismiss or deny it and even my ex-boyfriend got upset and offended as if I had tapped into his mind and heard his thoughts. It's crazy, one year later after we had broke up, he has confirmed what I originally felt from him and he is now comfortable telling me I was right.

It is great to see all of you here discussing this subject, it's not something I have been able to discuss before.

[Phoenix1304]

Greets Grannyfranny. Thank you for elaborating. I love this kind of sharing.

Too much nice. Oh I hear ya. I call it 'terminal niceness' that I had beaten into me. Well at worst, a strap round the back of the legs, there was no rudeness or self-indulgent displays allowed in my upbringing. I later felt that it gave me an obstacle as it prevented me from setting boundaries. Too many times I've resisted offending someone that was offensive to me. How do you tell a close friend they stink of BO? Or worse, when I was unable to simply say "get lost” to the endlessly harassing young males in Greece, I ended up getting raped. It's interesting to consider that empathy was honed by having ‘niceness’ drummed into me, I’ll chew over that for a few days.

I'm not nearly so nice now, but my heart still races when I try to set boundaries. That said, I mourn the loss of manners in our culture. The success of TV series like Downtown Abbey, imo, has a lot to do with the old-fashioned respect, values and good manners of both upstairs/downstairs that people wistfully long for. It's complete pulp drama of course as nothing is ever so black and white in life, my own experience with the wealthy and powerful are that they are generally spoilt, degenerate with a completely false sense of superiority, but Downtown is an uplifting escape from the general depravity of present day society. I am regularly saddened to see men's magazines that objectify women (airbrushed and bearing no resemblance to real women either) boldy displayed at child eye level even in the local supermarket. It damages both men and women. Witness the porn problem in the U.S. where addiction to it is now identified as a problem. To anyone that thinks it's cool I say 'programmed moron'.

I had to laugh at your description of the tarty gal, and your preoccupation with how you might get her to change. I fully understand your being pissed at women that set back the liberation of women with their behaviour, I doubt that any of them will have even heard of Emily Pankhurst, but I just feel they don't stand a chance, the mainstream media actively sexualises children from a very young age (and those child beauty pageants in the US are quite sickening) and the programming is such that young women don't even know how they've been had. All women have been had, actually, feminism became misappropriated as a cover for sending us out to work long hours and pay taxes in addition to cooking, cleaning, homemaking and having babies! Which really should be a vocation in itself. Gone are the days when a man had to win a women's love, and she made a God of him as he honoured the Goddess in her. Spiritual pairings of that kind must be rare. Lack of respect for women has a lot to do with the mess we're in, as do the women that do not deserve, expect or demand respect.

The boys have it just as bad in different ways and secretly despise the whorish behaviour of girls, take all they can get then treat them badly and are reluctant to take them home to see their mothers, from what I can tell, demure girls with self-respect are considered weirdos and will find themselves left out in the cold from their contemporaries if they're not swilling vodka and falling about with their arse in the air. It's tough on them all. I wouldn't know what to say, I personally detest veiled messages and prefer people to be frank, but that's like asking for the moon. If she crossed my path I'd probably say 'don't you find that dressing provocatively is asking for trouble?" and move on to self-respect if she engaged.

Agreed about Bill and I’m grateful to our host for this place where decent, intelligent people can gather to discuss the bigger picture. I admire his honesty and how he handles the sometimes completely unjustified attacks. I think he recognises they are mostly cries for attention, but it must be very tiresome. I wouldn’t know about other forums as there aren’t enough hours in the day for me to keep up with this one!

Maybe I should start a private forum the Granny Channel where the elders can have similar rants to this one, but it doesn't really achieve anything, so I won't. Forgive me for opening the pressure valve a tad and straying off topic.

[Flash]

Posted by Phoenix1304 (here)

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by grannyfranny100 (here)
Phoenix1304, the words "energy" and "vibration" resonate since those words are not necessarily related to people but to something much greater. It rides the currents of the ether. At times it manifests as a dream story of non-words composed of abstract color patterns. For animals, as a tsunami warning and for a bum knee person a coming weather pattern change. One can jump from one energy vortex to the lily pad of another vortex.

In a discussion of the fashionable meme of empaths, all these seem possible as does the idea of "reading" people's emotions and debating the source as an empath reading oneself or another person. But what separates the label "empath" from a skill set related to intuition and in what way? Or from good training at the rare home that honors manners and politeness as communication skills and hones those skills in their off spring.

What I am hearing is the intensity of pain one can experience and that one is uniquely sensitive to the pain of other individuals. Are we saying that what defines being an empath means one suffers more than others?

Wow. This is an outstanding example of self mastery. The hardest thing to get under control is the emotional input we put into ou children, as parents. And you are achieving it. Thank your son to have provided you with the opportunity. This is great Chester, i am not there yet personnally, i think.

I am sorry though for yor son and what he is inflicting on himself, for the moment and i do have empathy for both of you.

Love
Flash

Hi Flash

I assume you meant to quote Justoneman's post. Regarding your last sentence, I would say that you have sympathy with both of them, not empathy. I think there is an increasingly blurred line about what empathy actually is. Sympathy and compassion are not empathy as I understand it. Though both virtues inevitably go along with empathy at the end of the day. Tell me if I'm wrong and you viscerally feel both of their emotional states. Otherwise, please let's not deepen confusion on the matter by using the word as a 'fashionable meme' as grannyfranny so succintly put it.

Thanks.

Yes you are right, I meant to quote Justeoneman post.

You are wrong, i meant empathy - I had many chats with Chester and can truly sometimes feel him, as well as put myself in his shoes, somehow. I do not usually blurr both, empathy and sympathy.

I would add that to me, narcissism and empathy are not both end of a Spectrum, as it seems to have been mentioned in other posts. Having lived with a narcissist for years, I do know how this one thought and behaved. They are excellent "empathy" imitators, but everything, absolutely everything, has to do with themselves, the other is not important, even if they will show imitation of giving importance.

In fact, I would have much to say on the topic, but right now i am studying for exams and have no time.


Edit: I corrected my post by putting in the right quotes from Justoneman. Thanks for the corrective you brought Phoenix.

[grannyfranny100]

Justoneman, you said, "What I did not do was focus my will into the situation. I am not saying I did not hope he would get probation. But I did not "pray" that he would. I left it up the the Wisdom of the Universe to generate the outcome."

I feel this is a very wise observation. The "give me, give me what I want" praying was always a difficult one for me. Somehow that instinctively always seemed wrong. I like the distinction you made of hope and leaving it up to the Wisdom of the Universe. This must be a very painful event in your life but I hope your "reading" of it brings you some comfort. You have not interfered with your son's sovereignty and his need to follow his own path. Meanwhile you certainly have left the door open for a future reunion when he gets his act together.

Kudos to you on your two years of recovery. This event was quite a "final exam" about your recovery and you seem to have passed it with flying colors! Congratuations.

The closest I have been to such an incident was with my dog since I was childless. After eleven years together, Tiger Lily had a fatal blood disorder and went into remission when I went through my demanding prayers. Of course the disease came back and this time, I had one of our telepathic conversations with her. I told her, it was okay for her to leave if she must. That I understood. I told her I would miss her but I was just happy that we had gotten to be together again in this lifetime (she was a monkey like creature who wrapped her arms around me in a previous lifetime). I felt much better about giving her the chance to leave without feeling guilty. After she died and I buried her, I went to our favorite hiking spot and summoned my deceased husband (I was widowed at 32 years old when he was 35 years old. The dog was with me before and after the marriage). I wordlessly asked him to take care of her and they trotted off together. I was fortunate to have someone on the other side to intrust her to.

Justoneman, you had the "Wisdom of the Universe" to intrust your son to and that is even better. Your faith is so sparkling clear!!! Thank you for sharing, I like that phrase, "Wisdom of the Universe."

[grannyfranny100]

Flash, I am curious what you studying? Several times you have checked into a thread (a nice break from the books, I bet) and mentioned being rushed because of exams. I look forward to eventually learning more about what is going on.

[grannyfranny100]

Well I just fried my brain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy. Too much for me to absorb but at least I scanned it and now know there is lots there that we could spend months dissecting. Be forewarned, it is written at an exhausting machine gun speed.

[Flash]

Posted by grannyfranny100 (here)
Flash, I am curious what you studying? Several times you have checked into a thread (a nice break from the books, I bet) and mentioned being rushed because of exams. I look forward to eventually learning more about what is going on.

I am doing a master degree in Orientation advisory (I do not know the title in English, sorry). Not only do we learn all the stats, psychometry used all over, but also we learn psychotherapy and consulting.

I most probably am the eldest of the 200 students at the bachelor level, and amongst the eldest at the master levels.

I have worked a great part of my life as a consultant and trainer, first for a firm, in the Customer relations field, then with my own small firm. I always have been in th businesses fields, working with businesses.

Which means that I do not have the money put aside for retirement and no funds from any firm.

Although my income was more than excellent, I could not put much aside due to a bad narcissist husband who left with much money (I let it go to get rid of him), and also because I had a young daughter that was dysphasic, had motor skills impairments and autistic tendencies. Narcissist dad helped very little.

So my thinking was "how much do I have to make to pay her the best thérapies in North America", which I did. She is now fine, a beautiful bubbly 16 years old, out of the bush. The only remaining tint of problems is with the language, sometimes a bit awkward, but English speakers think it is because she is French, and French speakers think it is because she is English - she is bilingual - lol (we both know the truth, her and I, lol).

When I realised she was out of the bush and would manage her life well, I went into depression. I had work 70 hours a week for so long, plus taking care of her and going to excessive sports (gross motor skills improvement for her) and all kinds of therapies, that once the pressure was off it showed how I had not taken care of my own needs. I knew I could not keep working in this line of work and had to find something to work well into my seventies.

So I decided to go back to my first career thinking (b.a. in psychology, Neurolinguistic training, help relations training, etc) and to do psychotherapies as I grow - lol - into my sixties and seventies. And i love working with people.

So that master degree leads to the possibility of doing psychotherapies within the order of psychotherapists. Therefore my interest for empathy, empaths, special abilities and and and special needs.

So now, you have it all.

[grannyfranny100]

Well Flash, thanks for the Readers Digest version of a colorful life. I really admire your ambition, problem solving skills and devotion to your daughter. And I salute your willingness to give up the money to "disappear" the narcissist in your life. That was very brave!! The depression was an understandable reaction and need for some well deserved down time. I am glad to hear you are on target and have regained your verve.

Although I am childless, I, too, went back to school later in life and got my master's degree in my fifties because of a bad recession (is there ever a good one) and a bad career move I made. Not an easy step to take so I understand some of what you are going through.

Unfortunately I had accolades from my first career that scared potential thirtieths bosses that I would have their job in months. Even when I started lying about my accomplishments on my resume, I had to move out of state where the recession wasn't so bad. But you got that covered because you know how to run your own successful business!!! Will you go it alone or join a group practice to build your practice quickly and how soon will you complete your credentials?

Please ignore my questions if you don't have time right now. I understand that you have a full plate and I wish you well. Cramming two lifetimes of careers in one lifetime isn't easy. Eventually I am sure you can add lots to this thread and I look forward to that!

[Phoenix1304]

Last night I stumbled on a series of videos about empathy, and I wasn't even looking! I thought I'd post the link here, particularly for any of our younger members that are probably empathic and don't know it, I wish I'd 'got it' in my youth, it would have saved years of unnecessary anguish. For the old hand empaths you might find them interesting too, using the solar plexus chakra to flush the emotions and let them 'pass through' and seeing the ability as a precursor to clairsentience, I found much of interest in the whole series.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=o-OJjXCWkEs

[ulli]

Posted by grannyfranny100 (here)
Well Flash, thanks for the Readers Digest version of a colorful life. I really admire your ambition, problem solving skills and devotion to your daughter. And I salute your willingness to give up the money to "disappear" the narcissist in your life. That was very brave!! The depression was an understandable reaction and need for some well deserved down time. I am glad to hear you are on target and have regained your verve.

Although I am childless, I, too, went back to school later in life and got my master's degree in my fifties because of a bad recession (is there ever a good one) and a bad career move I made. Not an easy step to take so I understand some of what you are going through.

Unfortunately I had accolades from my first career that scared potential thirtieths bosses that I would have their job in months. Even when I started lying about my accomplishments on my resume, I had to move out of state where the recession wasn't so bad. But you got that covered because you know how to run your own successful business!!! Will you go it alone or join a group practice to build your practice quickly and how soon will you complete your credentials?

Please ignore my questions if you don't have time right now. I understand that you have a full plate and I wish you well. Cramming two lifetimes of careers in one lifetime isn't easy. Eventually I am sure you can add lots to this thread and I look forward to that!

Flash probably never saw your reply. Unless she was notified, but unless one clicks on the "Reply With Quote" button, such notification would not happen.