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Thread: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Volcanoes loom large as the most likely nemesis of life as we know it.

    We are overdue for an INEVITABLE volcanic explosion that will cover the US with lava and ash and effect the whole earth. 640,000 years ago the caldera blew and the devastation was a global disaster.



    There is a good PA post here on fairly recent coverage for recent uptick in activity at Yellowstone.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post740323

    CERTAIN eruption in some "near" future time puts my life and the world in perspective.

    It WILL HAPPEN and will effect me in a deadly way if I am still here on earth but also will effect everyone in a deadly way. I do not think saving seeds, storing beans and rice or even burying an RV will make a difference. In fact, I may not really want to survive given the kind of prep that seems available. What I know of prep seems almost a useless exercise IMO.

    What would be useful??

    The certain expectation that this will occur is something to use as a yard stick for what is important. Why would we care to focus on this one event? It speaks to the whole concept of planning for a future. PA topics focus on what matters most. If we know this will be certain, should we perhaps usefully talk about this constantly and insist that this one event be the US and world yard stick of reasonable concern?

    Volcanoes actually may be why the underground cities in Turkey and over the world were built and may be why the US government has underground shelter.

    How could awareness of this Yellowstone volcano mobilize people to demand a different context of SOCIAL concern? Would knowledge stir people up and make them so Mad they would come together in a smart way?

    I am really curious, how does knowing about THIS one expected disaster change how others see their priorities (including concern for one's children's children's children).

    Quote Right now, the ground underneath Yellowstone National Park is rising at a record rate. In fact, it is rising at the rate of about three inches per year. The reason why this is such a concern is because underneath the park sits the Yellowstone supervolcano – the largest volcano in North America. Scientists tell us that it is inevitable that it will erupt again one day, and when it does the devastation will be almost unimaginable. A full-blown eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano would dump a 10 foot deep layer of volcanic ash up to 1,000 miles away, and it would render much of the United States uninhabitable. When most Americans think of Yellowstone, they tend to conjure up images of Yogi Bear and “Old Faithful”, but the truth is that sleeping underneath Yellowstone is a volcanic beast that could destroy our nation in a single day and now that beast is starting to wake up.http://dcclothesline.com/2013/10/03/...aring-to-life/
    Quote To predict how the climate may be affected, the BBC relied on historic data from the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia about 74,000 years ago and computer model forecasts commissioned from the UK Met Office and the Max Planck Institute in Hamburg.

    Experts believe a Yellowstone eruption would inject 2,000 million tonnes of sulphur 40-50km above the Earth's surface. Once there it would take 2-3 weeks for the resulting sulphuric acid aerosols to cloak the globe – with devastating effects.

    Global annual average temperatures would drop by up to 10 degrees, according to computer predictions. And the Northern Hemisphere could cool by up to 12 degrees. Experts say colder temperatures could last 6-10 years, gradually returning to normal.

    Scientists predict that the Monsoon would fail as a result of even larger temperature changes in the Southern Hemisphere, causing mass starvation in the Asian countries that depend on these life-giving rains.

    Temperatures in Europe could be at least 5 degrees cooler the summer after the eruption.

    The actual effects of a Yellowstone super-eruption could be different depending on the size of eruption, the time of year and any number of other factors.

    How likely is all of this?
    An event as massive as a super-eruption would change the Earth and our society forever. It's difficult to predict the full devastation that would follow. We know there would be great loss of life and ill health, changes to our planet and major economic losses.

    Scientists believe another super-eruption will happen someday. They can't completely discount a Yellowstone eruption in the near future, but the chances of this happening are extremely remote.
    [QUOTE]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...article2.shtml[QUOTE]
    [/YOUTUBE]
    Last edited by Delight; 4th November 2013 at 16:39.

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    United States Avalon Member Ivanhoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    If Yellowstone blows, the only thing I'd want in my pantry is a bottle of cyanide.
    Nothing to the east of the explosion (*in the U.S.) would be livable for a looong time.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by Ivanhoe (here)
    If Yellowstone blows, the only thing I'd want in my pantry is a bottle of cyanide.
    Nothing to the east of the explosion (*in the U.S.) would be livable for a looong time.
    You are absolutely right. Apparently a large amount of opium poppy is a graceful exit.
    And this is not an IF but when.
    How do we consciously deal with responsibility for not a possibility but an expectation of this magnitude?

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    I tend to agree with Steve Beckow, in a recent article I read over at spiritofmaat.com:

    "The third aspect that we need to handle with care and be very circumspect about is a line of discussion that centers around catastrophe. I continually hear from people that I’d have thought had more wisdom around the subject that solar flares threaten to take us down or Niburu has been sighted around the Sun or the big surf is coming and will take out Los Angeles. I’m actually just making this up but name your favorite catastrophe.

    Yellowstone erupting. Fukushima turning us all into jellyfish. Whatever.

    Taking what Adamu said the other day about Project Bluebeam (1) and applying it here, do we really think that a higher-dimensional fleet of galactics from many dimensions and far-flung reaches of the cosmos have come here to ease our passage into a higher dimension and are going to allow everything to be defeated because a rogue wave comes and swamps the continental United States? Or Bangladesh sinks under an earthquake? Or a volcano goes off that fractures Indonesia and places the world in a kind of nuclear winter?

    These things will not happen. The galactics will not allow it, any more than they allowed a nuclear Third World War, a worldwide pandemic or any of the other circumstances that they have prevented over the years."

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by seeker1972 (here)
    These things will not happen. The galactics will not allow it, any more than they allowed a nuclear Third World War, a worldwide pandemic or any of the other circumstances that they have prevented over the years."
    I don't feel this could be true.

    When this event occurs, GAIA will continue to host life. It will change things but the organism of GAIA adapts.
    The supevolcanoes of the past did not wipe out all life. This is an activity that is natural.

    The only difference is that we can be aware of the expectation.
    Since I am aware and it makes me feel some passion for the opportunity to mobilize knowledge and place human kind in a different relationship to a natural earth activity, I will not expect the solution is from anyone but human intelligence challenged by our own planet's normal activity.

    If a changed prioritization cannot happen with us as humans to make a challenge to the status quo of near extinction, such is life as a planet.
    The difference in this ONE case is that sure an asteroid or something may happen. This WILL happen because the pressure has to move out and does either explosively or in some gentler way. My hope is that we might think through gentler ways but also move out of the way and pave the way for aftermaths we need to manage.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    The US has the technology to remove the threat. HOWEVER...

    Of all things, the critical region is in a NATIONAL PARK and was made such in 1872, controlled by the Park service, Department of the Interior, and only an Act of Congress would allow for the prohibition of entering the park to correct the lake flooding issue, the catastrophic magma dome issue.

    I have seen and reviewed a full study on what needs to be done - however, the "Park Service" blocking action preventing the solutions to be implemented was a decree made a long time ago before the dangers were discovered. The "majestic beauty" was one of the reasons that such will never be allowed to be "touched" according to the decree.

    It is insane that the national park rule will be the reason the above world planet is to allowed to die when the lake floor cracks, hits the magma, and the system unzips and allows the rest of the dome to become exposed.

    ref's:
    National Park Service - http://www.nps.gov/aboutus/history.htm
    "By the Act of March 1, 1872, Congress established Yellowstone National Park in the Territories of Montana and Wyoming "as a public park or pleasuring-ground for the benefit and enjoyment of the people" and placed it "under exclusive control of the Secretary of the Interior." "
    The Organic Act - http://www.nps.gov/grba/parkmgmt/org...ct-of-1916.htm

    One of the views of the magma dome and lake - lake contents rapidly dumps into magma, catastrophic steam explosions, thousands of Mt. st. Helens equivalent eruptions happens



    Last edited by Bob; 4th November 2013 at 17:15.

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    Avalon Member Octavusprime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Even when there is little hope, I would still try to survive. For myself, for man, for the earth itself.

    I've thought about this and there are a few ways I see surviving.

    1. Outlast the hell storm. Basically have 2 year+ food to survive the ashy winter and cold dark days. Aside from food you would need a huge supply of seeds to plant once you can finally grow food. Even worse you would likely need tons of fresh soil since the ash would render the soil outside worthless.

    2. Generate enough wind power to grow indoors. With enough electricity you could set up LED light fixtures indoors and grow food for yourself and some small livestock. Rabbits, chickens, guinea pigs etc.

    Both scenarios require lots of water too. You can never have too much potable water!

    There maybe other scenarios but those are the main two I could think of.
    Last edited by Octavusprime; 4th November 2013 at 17:16.
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by seeker1972 (here)
    I tend to agree with Steve Beckow, in a recent article I read over at spiritofmaat.com:
    Be careful with Steve Beckow's information. Very careful.

    He's was the one behind the spaceship ride hysteria which happened in 2011.

    If you do not remember it, he asked people to send him emails to participate in an alien spaceship ride. According to him, people would be picked up in their homes in white limousines, and then conducted to a spaceship for an interstellar trip. I'm not joking; He seriously said that...Older Avalon members will remember this fiasco, of course...

    I wouldn't trust a single word coming from a guy who promoted such a terrible hoax. There's a gigantic sad and humiliating thread about this incident here...It's simply awful.

    Anyway, about the volcano, I wouldn't worry about it. Each one of us could die at any moment. If we are supposed to be killed by such a monstrous volcanic eruption, there's nothing we can do to stop it, so be it.

    Earth's time is completely different from ours, which is dictated by our short lifespan. To Earth, such "disasters" happen all the time. Between huge volcanic eruptions, ice ages, asteroid impacts, life happens. Eventually, the whole human race will be extinguished from this planet one way or another. There's nothing we can do about it besides moving on with our lives.

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 4th November 2013 at 17:25.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    So Bobd, what is the technology that would remove the threat of a super volcano? You can't just plug it up. You can't pump water into it and cool it down. You can't move it. I'm curious as to what this technology would be.
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    So Octavusprime, the studies I saw showed that the heat can be removed from the upper magma layers that if there was a crack, the rock would be sufficiently cool there would be no catastrophic explosion. The amount of extraction of the heat would be a massive project, there was a question if controlled high temperature drilling (as developed by the deep oil drilling programs that have drilled to 22K feet plus in Wyoming), would be able to deal with the temperatures (there is no drilling into the magma, just shallow drilling sufficiently to extract the heat). In the simplistic terms, think geothermal heat pump systems on massive scales. The amount of heat that is currently radiating into the atmosphere converted into electric power would be enough to run the midwest US, and north into Canada as well. Of course that would mean lower energy costs would happen, and that's another reason such will never be allowed to happen, IMO.

    ED: These are the critical faults - the ones particularly under or near Lake Yellowstone are those which have the potential to open the lake to the magma - the question has been will unzipping happen with the rest of the fault systems. See the map. (University of Utah)


    ref: thermal output Yellowstone - http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/pip/2012JB009463.shtml
    Heat output from Yellowstone ranges from 4.9 GW to 9.1 GW
    Vapor discharge accounts for 4.0 to 8.0 GW of the heat output

    ED-2: I pulled this from the National Renewable Energy website, and it gives one an understanding at the amount of power available and how much just the US uses per day. The numbers are based on renewable wind power, and heat power would easily be considered a renewable.

    "Wind resource potential is typically given in gigawatts (GW), and1 GW of wind power will supply between 225,000 to 300,000 average U.S. homes with power annually. In a July 2012 Technical Report, NREL estimates a gross wind power resource of 4,223 GW off the coast of the United States. That is roughly four times the generating capacity of the current U.S. electric grid. Even if only a fraction of that potential is developed, clearly there is enough offshore wind resource to power a substantial portion of our nation’s energy needs."

    ref: http://www.boem.gov/Renewable-Energy...nd-Energy.aspx

    Having as much "free energy" from the Yellowstone Caldera offers the solution to preventing worldwide destruction from massive eruption, PLUS removes carbon from burning coal or gas for power plants. Yellowstone has double the power output if we would only go about extracting it.
    Last edited by Bob; 4th November 2013 at 17:59.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Setting up massive geo-thermal electricity plants is a brilliant idea. We could provide "clean" energy to all. If only the government would give us the energy for free, since We The People should be the owners of this public land and the minerals that are extracted.

    I like the theory of it but I'm sure it would just turn that area into one large industrial waste land and create a new business for the wealthy to have us suckle on. For that reason I would be very hesitant. I've been to Yellowstone for a few days of camping and it was a very magical experience.

    If it could be done with minimum impact to the natural beauty of that area, sure. Just cooling the magma would likely change the micro-climate of the area pretty quickly. Impact studies and testing would have to be completed. I just wish I had more faith in people to do a great project like this in an ethical and fair way. The way the system is currently set up would likely ensure the projects complete corruption through corporate control.
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Octavusprime - yes see my updated post above on the amount of energy going to waste.

    What I saw could be done actually cleanly, greenly. The issue is this area has been blocked as well as all the critical areas in the Cascades (the Cascadia Fault zone for instance) also has immense heat potential, and new technology, not using steam power for geothermal has shown workable capabilities. A lot has changed, and Canada, Mexico can be given basically low cost clean green energy, saving the planet from volcanic disaster. The issue is to get the greed characters to rethink the whole game is lost if Yellowstone blows. An Act (or acts) of Congress is needed, and all the unstable volcanic zones can have the new technology to extract. It can be done clean and green.. Just takes the right groups to implement and follow-through.

    Volcanoes can be our friends (oye.. that's a statement, tame the dragons...)

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    Volcanoes loom large as the most likely nemesis of life as we know it.

    We are overdue for an INEVITABLE volcanic explosion that will cover the US with lava and ash and effect the whole earth....

    [...]
    I disagree regarding the above simply because with geological/tectonic phenomena, there is no possible certainty to be uttered unless one is a politician or a doom and gloom fear mongerer.

    Besides:

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    [...]

    My opinion on the Yellowstone threat is that it would be less explosive (but still catastrophic) than at the time of the original formation of the caldera, simply because the channels are already in place which wasn't the case at the time of the first intrusion. Now, in the case of a new crustal shift with respect to mantle, that would be another story... because that would require another outlet to be punched through.

    Hope this helps clarify the matter better?
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by Bobd (here)
    The US has the technology to remove the threat. HOWEVER...

    Of all things, the critical region is in a NATIONAL PARK and was made such in 1872, controlled by the Park service, Department of the Interior, and only an Act of Congress would allow for the prohibition of entering the park to correct the lake flooding issue, the catastrophic magma dome issue.

    I have seen and reviewed a full study on what needs to be done - however, the "Park Service" blocking action preventing the solutions to be implemented was a decree made a long time ago before the dangers were discovered. The "majestic beauty" was one of the reasons that such will never be allowed to be "touched" according to the decree.

    It is insane that the national park rule will be the reason the above world planet is to allowed to die when the lake floor cracks, hits the magma, and the system unzips and allows the rest of the dome to become exposed.

    ref's:
    National Park Service - http://www.nps.gov/aboutus/history.htm
    "By the Act of March 1, 1872, Congress established Yellowstone National Park in the Territories of Montana and Wyoming "as a public park or pleasuring-ground for the benefit and enjoyment of the people" and placed it "under exclusive control of the Secretary of the Interior." "
    The Organic Act - http://www.nps.gov/grba/parkmgmt/org...ct-of-1916.htm

    One of the views of the magma dome and lake - lake contents rapidly dumps into magma, catastrophic steam explosions, thousands of Mt. st. Helens equivalent eruptions happens



    responding to this part:
    Quote
    I have seen and reviewed a full study on what needs to be done - however, the "Park Service" blocking action preventing the solutions to be implemented was a decree made a long time ago before the dangers were discovered. The "majestic beauty" was one of the reasons that such will never be allowed to be "touched" according to the decree.

    It is insane that the national park rule will be the reason the above world planet is to allowed to die when the lake floor cracks, hits the magma, and the system unzips and allows the rest of the dome to become exposed.
    What yellowstone presents to me is a great opportunity for mobilizing around a central concern.
    This is a important as it is known that it WILL happen.
    structuring a conversation around yellowstone has an advantage. It is horrific. Therefore it can capture the attention.
    If there are ways to ameliorate this, the plan can be explained and the mobilization triggered to insist we RESPOND.

    I believe we could use Yellowstone as a touch stone for a discussion of major challenge of priorities. The sensational magnitude of yellowstone Blowing will touch everyone personally.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Delight / BobD dialog -

    Quote responding to this part:

    I have seen and reviewed a full study on what needs to be done - however, the "Park Service" blocking action preventing the solutions to be implemented was a decree made a long time ago before the dangers were discovered. The "majestic beauty" was one of the reasons that such will never be allowed to be "touched" according to the decree.

    It is insane that the national park rule will be the reason the above world planet is to allowed to die when the lake floor cracks, hits the magma, and the system unzips and allows the rest of the dome to become exposed.
    Quote What yellowstone presents to me is a great opportunity for mobilizing around a central concern.

    This is a important as it is known that it WILL happen.

    Structuring a conversation around Yellowstone has an advantage. It is horrific. Therefore it can capture the attention.

    If there are ways to ameliorate this, the plan can be explained and the mobilization triggered to insist we RESPOND.

    I believe we could use Yellowstone as a touch stone for a discussion of major challenge of priorities. The sensational magnitude of yellowstone Blowing will touch everyone personally.
    I think Avalon has an opportunity to create some miracles here once again. Better than lemonade
    Last edited by Bob; 4th November 2013 at 18:38.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    Volcanoes loom large as the most likely nemesis of life as we know it.

    We are overdue for an INEVITABLE volcanic explosion that will cover the US with lava and ash and effect the whole earth....

    [...]
    I disagree regarding the above simply because with geological/tectonic phenomena, there is no possible certainty to be uttered unless one is a politician or a doom and gloom fear mongerer.

    Besides:

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    [...]

    My opinion on the Yellowstone threat is that it would be less explosive (but still catastrophic) than at the time of the original formation of the caldera, simply because the channels are already in place which wasn't the case at the time of the first intrusion. Now, in the case of a new crustal shift with respect to mantle, that would be another story... because that would require another outlet to be punched through.

    Hope this helps clarify the matter better?
    I am not a gloom or doomer.
    If we go extinct,, GAIA will hardly miss us. Probably even human life will continue. My thought though is that I likethe idea we coulduse the potential disaster and workwith it for the best outcome.

    Have you ever wondered why there are no magaliths in America? The megaliths may have been here at one time and are now buried by some earth.

    I have observed that active volcanoes have cycles and that the signs are in place that there will be a powerful eruption if it just blows.

    We could rally behind a very powerful natural phenomenon that must be considered and COULD mobilize people to think about priorities.
    Last edited by Delight; 4th November 2013 at 18:49.

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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by Bobd (here)
    Delight / BobD dialog -

    Quote responding to this part:

    I have seen and reviewed a full study on what needs to be done - however, the "Park Service" blocking action preventing the solutions to be implemented was a decree made a long time ago before the dangers were discovered. The "majestic beauty" was one of the reasons that such will never be allowed to be "touched" according to the decree.

    It is insane that the national park rule will be the reason the above world planet is to allowed to die when the lake floor cracks, hits the magma, and the system unzips and allows the rest of the dome to become exposed.
    Quote What yellowstone presents to me is a great opportunity for mobilizing around a central concern.

    This is a important as it is known that it WILL happen.

    Structuring a conversation around Yellowstone has an advantage. It is horrific. Therefore it can capture the attention.

    If there are ways to ameliorate this, the plan can be explained and the mobilization triggered to insist we RESPOND.

    I believe we could use Yellowstone as a touch stone for a discussion of major challenge of priorities. The sensational magnitude of yellowstone Blowing will touch everyone personally.
    I think Avalon has an opportunity to create some miracles here once again. Better than lemonade
    bob,
    you said:

    Quote Having as much "free energy" from the Yellowstone Caldera offers the solution to preventing worldwide destruction from massive eruption, PLUS removes carbon from burning coal or gas for power plants. Yellowstone has double the power output if we would only go about extracting it.
    This is the kind of "cause" that I could be 100% in favor of helping. It acknowledges that we can operate in a happy relationship with natural forces. Is that called science?

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  31. Link to Post #18
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote Posted by Bobd (here)
    Volcanoes can be our friends (oye.. that's a statement, tame the dragons...)
    The yellow dragon is our ally and friend.


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  33. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Would be interesting to watch

    How often do you really get to see a volcano blow like that!

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  35. Link to Post #20
    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yellowstone super eruption...is it possible to prepare for this inevitable wipe out?

    Quote
    Santorini in Greece, Uturuncu in Bolivia, the Yellowstone and Long Valley calderas in the U.S., Laguna del Maule in Chile, Campi Flegrei in Italy – almost all of the world’s active supervolcanic systems are now exhibiting some signs of inflation- a potential early indication that an eruption could be building in these volcanic systems for the near future. When they will erupt is anybody’s guess? In the meantime, unrest is also growing among the volcanoes of Central America, Kamchatka, Alaska, Indonesia, and Iceland- which is home to some of the most dangerous volcanoes on the planet. The clock is ticking. Their magma chambers are expanding. Tremors are increasing. If any one of these volcanic systems has a major eruption, we’re in deep trouble.

    Remember Chaiten which erupted in 2008 – A volcano considered extinct – i.e. hadn’t erupted for 9,600 years. Scientists first observing an eruption in the area of Chaiten feared that the adjacent giant Minchinmávida Volcano had started erupting – another of your classic huge calderas.

    Chaiten was the largest Ryolite eruption in the last 1000 years. This eruption may have been a reaction to a 6.2 Mag earthquake close by 10 days previously.
    Posted by member BabaRa elsewhere.

    (with some follow up from another).

    I don't know ... perhaps something to consider?

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