+ Reply to Thread
Page 16 of 33 FirstFirst 1 6 16 26 33 LastLast
Results 301 to 320 of 654

Thread: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

  1. Link to Post #301
    Avalon Member 3optic's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th March 2010
    Location
    Waltzing between the raindrops
    Posts
    526
    Thanks
    608
    Thanked 724 times in 235 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by OnyxKnight (here)
    Quote Posted by 3optic (here)
    Hi Milneman. Firstly, the numbers do matter if we are differentiating between tens of thousands and 6 million. Also the 6 million number carries with it the the notion that this was a deliberate extermination.
    Uh ... NO. They don't matter actually. Numbers don't carry an aspect of intention. That's your own input. Tens of thousands or 6 million? IT'S STILL EXTERMINATION! Stop with this stupidity FFS! We are talking about people here, not lab rats!

    Quote Secondly, David Irving is offering a handsome reward on his site if you can prove Hitler gave these orders.
    Are we going to hang in the air a prize for who proves genetically those were Jews next? You people amaze me with your shallow thinking. Especially when such a discussion is carried on here, on this forum.

    Quote Finally, in your somewhat sensationalistic display, you included a photo above of a girl Lizzie van Zyl who was interned in a British concentration camp during the Boer Wars.
    What about the rest? Maybe he mistakenly showed some photos from the Macedonian Exodus of 1913/14? Or from Bosnia? Or are the rest genuine? Does one photo make a difference to you? Or because of that one photo the rest lose validity? What the frak is your point here? Do you even have one?

    Quote If you are going to a make a plea to our natural senses, you may want to use photos and data that are actually relevant and corroborated. Specifics are important otherwise we're just throwing horrifying images and facts around for the sake of making a commotion.
    If you want to make a conspiracy out of something, you may want to use a bit more common sense and a few more facts than what has been done so far to fuel this nonsense in the alt. media, because this is yelling "conspiracy!" for the sake of having another dumb conspiracy around.
    Just saw this.

    1) The reason the numbers are important is that included in them may be death by natural causes, disease, unintended starvation etc. I will hasten to add that at this moment I see little to doubt that a hugely immoral evil was perpetrated and it's quite likely at the very least thousands were murdered.

    The words "holocaust" and "extermination" have very specific meaning and I would put to you that it does matter if we are to determine what the intention was. If it wasn't an eradication of a specific racial or religious group but was instead what amounts to more generalized political, racial persecution then yes I believe there is a point in discerning what from what. There are many state sponsored mass murders throughout history that don't carry these monikers.

    2) The phrase "you people" carries unintended irony here I believe

    3) My comment about the clearly out of place photo is that these images are themselves not sufficient proof. I'm not suggesting these victims weren't murdered but the inclusion of this photo and the suggestion that photos like these prove the massacre of millions is specious. What is clear is that something horrible happened. Could have been murder. But this post was sensationalized and sloppy which detracts from the rational and adds to the rhetoric. That is my point.

    4) I'm not, as you say "making a conspiracy". I honestly don't know what happened. I was responding to the post which admittedly offended me. Not because of the photo's content (which are neutral insomuch as photographic content carries no idealogical bias) but for the deliberate sensationalism in the way they were displayed. I take responsibility for my reactivity. I'll try to be more chilled out..

    I would suggest to you that ALL history is and should be up for debate. To shut down the discussion with condescending chastisement or angry, pointed accusation (the word "anti-Semite" has been liberally doled out.. though not by you as far as I've read) is not helpful.

    Should be said that Irving, a troubling, problematic character (aren't most of us?) is an admitted xenophobe. He says as much in this fascinating interview. Some of you may recognize it as a classic MSM railroad.

    Last edited by 3optic; 16th December 2013 at 09:43.
    Out beyond the ideas of right-doing or wrong-doing there is a field- I'll meet you there.

    -Jelaluddin Rumi

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to 3optic For This Post:

    Andrew (16th December 2013)

  3. Link to Post #302
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    I am watching the docu/Drama Conspiracy I did watch it when it first came out and
    thought I'd better refresh my memory. I am halfway thru and need a break
    and comment on a few things while still fresh.Its clear Hitler knew what the
    term 'Evacutaion' really mean't. He may of left the details to his subordinates, but it
    is clear by association he is as guilty as hell from the policies against the Jews and
    other 'undesirables' that were NAZI party doctrine and policy from the beginning.



    Conspiracy is a television film which dramatizes the 1942 Wannsee Conference. The
    film delves into the psychology of Nazi officials involved in the "Final Solution of the
    Jewish Question" during World War II. It is an English-language adaptation of the
    German film The Wannsee Conference (1984) which is a must see for anyone who
    appreciates WW2, Holocaust historical films.
    The movie was written by Loring Mandel (inspired after viewing a 1984
    documentary on the subject), directed by Frank Pierson, and starred an ensemble
    cast, including Kenneth Branagh as Reinhard Heydrich and Stanley Tucci as Adolf
    Eichmann. Branagh won an Emmy Award for Best Actor, and Tucci was awarded a
    Golden Globe for his supporting role as Eichmann.


    ====================================================

    German Fuhrer Adolf Hitler addresses Reichstag proclaiming new laws for the protection of German blood and honor



    Nazi Germany Fuhrer Adolf Hitler in Germany. Adolf Hitler addresses from a
    podium. A Nazi flag fluttering. Nazi agenda includes a law for the protection of
    German blood and German honor, prohibition on Jews marrying outside their race,
    division of Germans into 'Citizens' and 'Members' with Jews as members only, and
    prohibition on Jews flying the German flag.

    This historic stock footage available in HD and SD video. View pricing in lower left
    of video player.


    Archive vid on link...
    http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...ews-prohibited




    ====================================================





    The laws were then read by Reichstag President Hermann Göring as follows:


    Reich Citizenship Law of September 15, 1935


    I. 1. A subject of the State is a person who belongs to the protective union of the
    German Reich, and who therefore has particular obligations towards the Reich. 2.
    The status of subject is acquired in accordance with the provisions of the Reich and
    State Law of Citizenship.

    II. 1. A citizen of the Reich is that subject only who is of German or kindred blood
    and who, through his conduct, shows that he is both desirous and fit to serve the
    German people and Reich faithfully.

    http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...nurem-laws.htm

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Nuremberg Laws:
    Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor

    (September 15, 1935)

    Nuremberg Laws: Table of Contents | Background & Overview | Reich Citizenship Law

    Entirely convinced that the purity of German blood is essential to the further
    existence of the German people, and inspired by the uncompromising
    determination to safeguard the future of the German nation, the Reichstag has
    unanimously resolved upon the following law, which is promulgated herewith:


    Section 1


    1. Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or kindred blood are forbidden.
    Marriages concluded in defiance of this law are void, even if, for the purpose of
    evading this law, they were concluded abroad.

    2. Proceedings for annulment may be initiated only by the Public Prosecutor.

    Section 2


    Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and nationals of German or
    kindred blood are forbidden.

    Section 3


    Jews will not be permitted to employ female citizens of German or kindred blood as

    domestic servants.

    Section 4


    1. Jews are forbidden to display the Reich and national flag or the national colors.

    2. On the other hand they are permitted to display the Jewish colors. The exercise
    of this right is protected by the State.

    Section 5


    1. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 1 will be punished with
    hard labour.

    2. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 2 will be punished with
    imprisonment or with hard labour.

    3. A person who acts contrary to the provisions of Sections 3 or

    4 will be punished with imprisonment up to a year and with a fine, or with one of
    these penalties.

    Section 6


    The Reich Minister of the Interior in agreement with the Deputy Fuhrer and the
    Reich Minister of Justice will issue the legal and administrative regulations required
    for the enforcement and supplementing of this law.

    Section 7


    The law will become effective on the day after its promulgation; Section 3,
    however, not until 1 January 1936.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../nurmlaw2.html




    Deutsch: Die Nürnberger Gesetze, 1935: Deutschblütiger, Mischling 2. Grades,
    Mischling 1. Grades, Jude

    English: Chart to describe Nuremberg Laws, 1935. The "Nuremberg Laws"
    established a pseudo-scientific basis for racial identification. Only people with four
    German grandparents (four white circles in top row left) were of "German blood". A
    Jew is someone who descends from three or four Jewish grandparents (black circles
    in top row right). In the middle stood people of "mixed blood" of the "first or second
    degree." A Jewish grandparent was defined as a person who is or was a member of
    a Jewish religious community. Also includes a list of allowed marriages ("Ehe
    gestattet") and forbidden marriages ("Ehe verboten").



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws

    ====================================================

    The systematic destruction of Jewish religious identy in the Reich was well
    under way before the war.





    Uploaded on 27 Jan 2011


    Crystal night, as the pogrom that occurred on the night of November 9-10, 1938
    was called, resulted in the destruction of nearly all the synagogues in Germany and
    Austria (more than 1,500), many Jewish cemeteries, thousands of Jewish owned
    stores and 29 department stores. More than thirty thousand Jews were arrested,
    sometimes by predetermined lists, and were sent to concentration camps. Some
    400 Jews were murdered and hundreds more seriously hurt. A few Germans with
    a "Jewish appearance" were also murdered.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 16th December 2013 at 23:35.

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    Agape (16th December 2013), loungelizard (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013), panopticon (16th December 2013), RMorgan (16th December 2013)

  5. Link to Post #303
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    I posted this interview earlier in #65




    I listened to the other David Irvine vid on page one and thought I'd
    listen to this one. His main argument is there are no documents existing
    stating that Auswitz had gas chambers, he does concede tens
    possibly of hundreds of thousands were killed there by other means.

    He also admits there is plenty of documentation that millions of
    Jews were shot and killed on the eastern front !!


    3 mins 56 sec in
    " If all the shootings on the Eastern front are documented , there's is no doubt the
    Nazis killed millions of Jews on the Eastern front we have plenty of documents
    proving that, but nothing for the gas chambers"...


    A few more tit for tat exchanges with Irvine, he thought if the war lasted
    another year Hitler would have won. Which is utter rubbish, unless
    Hitler did have a secret weapon , conventionally the German army
    was defeated in 1943/44 mainly on the eastern front, after Stalingrad
    and Kursk. D Day was the nail in the coffin for the 1000 year Reich.


    Hardtalk - David Irving (BBC 2000)





    3 mins 56 sec in
    " If all the shootings on the Eastern front are documented , there's is no doubt the
    Nazis killed millions of Jews on the Eastern front we have plenty of documents
    for that, but nothing for the gas chambers"...


    17min 25 sec.. Irving quoted as saying in a speech in Calgary in 1991..

    " More women died on the back of Senator Kennedys car at chappaquiddick than
    died in the gas chambers at Auswitz "

    So Mr Irving has no disagreement that there was a holocaust and millions of Jews
    were murdered. Just on the method of execution......

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    3optic (17th December 2013), loungelizard (16th December 2013), panopticon (16th December 2013)

  7. Link to Post #304
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    390
    Thanks
    2,042
    Thanked 1,074 times in 318 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by Andrew (here)
    That document talks about a mass evacuation not extermination, it's not me saying it, read it yourself.
    From my understanding, the suggestion that emigration was what was meant by "the final solution" is - to be polite - naive.

    By the time of the Wannsee conference in January 1942, the death camps in Belzec and Chelmno, with their gassing facilities, were already under construction.

    Emigration was merely an interim measure: as it says in the Protocol, "These actions are nevertheless to be seen only as temporary relief but they are providing the practical experience that is of great significance for the coming final solution of the Jewish question."

    Eichmann, at his trial, stated that, during the Wannsee conference, "Murder and elimination and annihilation were discussed."

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    3optic (16th December 2013), Cidersomerset (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013), panopticon (16th December 2013)

  9. Link to Post #305
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    390
    Thanks
    2,042
    Thanked 1,074 times in 318 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by 3optic (here)
    There's a ring of truth to the Fred Leutcher interview
    Fred Leuchter has a ring of truth? Seriously?

    Holocaust Revisionist Admits He Is Not Engineer

    © Copyright The Washington Post, June 18, 1991, FINAL Edition
    By: Christopher B. Daly, Special to The Washington Post

    BOSTON, June 17 - Fred A. Leuchter Jr., a self-styled expert in the machinery of death who parlayed his reputation as a builder of killing equipment into a second career as a proponent of "Holocaust revisionism," has admitted that he is not an engineer.
    Made in a consent decree filed with a Massachusetts court last week, his admission should deal a blow to the movement holding that the Nazi extermination of 6 million Jews and others during World War II was a hoax or an exaggeration, according to experts in the field.

    In it, Leuchter acknowledged that, "I am not and have never been registered as a professional engineer" and that he nevertheless had represented himself as an engineer in dealings with various states that use the death penalty and to which he supplied equipment or advice.
    The agreement also requires Leuchter to stop disseminating reports in which he purports to be an engineer, most significantly a document known as the "Leuchter Report."
    Full article here:
    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/...post-0691.html

    This man has been discredited, debunked and charged with fraud.

    Can you point out where the ring of truth is to be found?


    You may want to watch the Erroll Morris film about Leuchter, called Dr Death.

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    3optic (16th December 2013), Cidersomerset (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013), panopticon (16th December 2013), Tony (16th December 2013)

  11. Link to Post #306
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    390
    Thanks
    2,042
    Thanked 1,074 times in 318 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by 3optic (here)
    There's a ring of truth to ... David Irving's talk which didn't seem to me to be a racist rally.
    What a shame that ring of truth didn't stand up in court when he sued American academic for claiming that he is a 'Hitler partisan' who twists history to cast the German dictator in a better light. He lost his case. And his appeal. And was declared bankrupt after failing to pay £150,000 in costs.

    http://www.theguardian.com/irving/

    Oh, alright - I'll go the whole hog...


    Excerpts from High Court Judge Charles Gray's ruling in the David Irving libel suit


    It is my conclusion that no objective, fair-minded historian would have serious cause to doubt that there were gas chambers at Auschwitz and that they were operated on a substantial scale to kill hundreds of thousands of Jews.
    It appears to me to be incontrovertible that Irving qualifies as a Holocaust denier. Not only has he denied the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz and asserted that no Jew was gassed there, he has done so on frequent occasions and sometimes in the most offensive terms. By way of examples, I cite his story of the Jew climbing into a mobile telephone box-cum-gas chamber; his claim that more people died in the back of Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick than died in the gas chambers at Auschwitz; his dismissal of the eyewitnesses en masse as liars or suffering from a mental problem ... I reject as being untrue the claim made by Irving in his evidence that in his denial of the existence of any gas chambers at Auschwitz, he was referring solely to the gas chamber constructed by the Poles after the war for the benefit of visitors to the site or, as Irving put it, as a 'tourist attraction.'
    Having grossly underestimated the number who lost their lives in the camps, Irving is prone to claim that a greater number than that were killed in Allied bombing raids on Dresden and elsewhere. He has, moreover, repeatedly claimed that the British Psychological War Executive ingeniously discovered the lies that the Nazis were killing Jews in gas chambers in order to use it as propaganda.
    Irving is anti-Semitic. His words are directed against Jews, either individually or collectively, in the sense that they are by turn hostile, critical, offensive and derisory in their references to Semitic people, their characteristics and appearances ... Irving has made claims that the Jews deserve to be disliked; that they brought the Holocaust on themselves. He speaks regularly at political or quasi-political meetings in Germany, the United States, Canada and the New World. The content of his speeches and interviews often displays a distinctly pro-Nazi and anti-Jewish bias. He makes surprising and often unfounded assertions about the Nazi regime which tend to exonerate the Nazis for the appalling atrocities which they inflicted on the Jews. He is content to mix with neo-facists and appears to share many of their racist and anti-Semitic prejudices.
    The charges which I have found to be substantially true include the charges that Irving has for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence; that for the same reasons he has portrayed Hitler in an unwarrantedly favourable light, principally in relation to his attitude towards and responsibility for the treatment of the Jews; that he is an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    3optic (16th December 2013), Cidersomerset (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013), panopticon (16th December 2013), Tony (16th December 2013)

  13. Link to Post #307
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    The original German version, conspiracy was adapted from...

    Die Wannseekonferenz (1984)



    Die Wannseekonferenz, 1984. German with English subs.

    A real time recreation of the 1942 Wannsee Conference, in which leading SS and
    Nazi Party officials led by SS-General Reinhard Heydrich gathered to discuss
    the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question".

    Director: Heinz Schirk
    Writer: Paul Mommertz
    Stars: Dietrich Mattausch, Gerd Böckmann
    and Friedrich G. Beckhaus

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    loungelizard (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013), panopticon (16th December 2013), Tony (16th December 2013)

  15. Link to Post #308
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Even if some have different views of these events.....The Jewish people
    not for the first time by any means in history, were stripped of citizenship,
    property with no compensation and any form of human rights. They were rounded
    up and shot by the millions on the Eastern front, and were 'evacuated' from much
    of the rest of the Reich and conquered nations or influenced allies, to 'relocation'
    Ghettos or the many concentration camps. All this is horrific on its own even
    without the need to argue whether Hitler authorised the final solution gas chambers
    or not, imo.

    I believe Hitler knew the Jews were being liquidated not rehoused .



    Inside The Nazi War Machine 1/3 - Inside The Holocaust
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 16th December 2013 at 14:24.

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    3optic (16th December 2013), Agape (16th December 2013), loungelizard (16th December 2013), panopticon (16th December 2013), Tony (16th December 2013)

  17. Link to Post #309
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th March 2010
    Posts
    5,563
    Thanks
    14,037
    Thanked 25,243 times in 4,597 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Schindler's List is very good movie ..from Steven Spielberg , if you have not seen it yet I recommend it to you . It's following realistic time-line , based on real wwII story of Oskar Shindler , rich German industrialist who saved more than 1200 people by enlisting them as 'important workers' in his factories and building quite complicated cover up that prevented their extermination.

    It's a great movie .. though I've heard that some of the survivors who seen it said it was a bit exaggerated and the reality was harder than that . Given credits to artistic expression guess it has to be so.




    Full movie : http://viooz.co/movies/187-schindlers-list-1993.html


  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Agape For This Post:

    161803398 (17th December 2013), Cidersomerset (16th December 2013), loungelizard (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013), Wind (16th December 2013)

  19. Link to Post #310
    Avalon Member 3optic's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th March 2010
    Location
    Waltzing between the raindrops
    Posts
    526
    Thanks
    608
    Thanked 724 times in 235 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    Quote Posted by 3optic (here)
    There's a ring of truth to the Fred Leutcher interview
    Full article here:
    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/...post-0691.html

    This man has been discredited, debunked and charged with fraud.

    Can you point out where the ring of truth is to be found?


    You may want to watch the Erroll Morris film about Leuchter, called Dr Death.
    I stand corrected
    Out beyond the ideas of right-doing or wrong-doing there is a field- I'll meet you there.

    -Jelaluddin Rumi

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 3optic For This Post:

    loungelizard (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013)

  21. Link to Post #311
    Avalon Member 3optic's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th March 2010
    Location
    Waltzing between the raindrops
    Posts
    526
    Thanks
    608
    Thanked 724 times in 235 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
    Even if some have different views of these events.....The Jewish people
    not for the first time by any means in history, were stripped of citizenship,
    property with no compensation and any form of human rights. They were rounded
    up and shot by the millions on the Eastern front, and were 'evacuated' from much
    of the rest of the Reich and conquered nations or influenced allies, to 'relocation'
    Ghettos or the many concentration camps. All this is horrific on its own even
    without the need to argue whether Hitler authorised the final solution gas chambers
    or not, imo.

    I believe Hitler knew the Jews were being liquidated not rehoused .
    From what i've read, watched David Irving conceded the killings on the Eastern front took place and this puts the death toll numbers well into the millions. The question whether or not Hitler gave the order was a curious question of documentation. Seems difficult to believe he was not appraised of the situation.

    Irving seems sincerely convinced there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz. Haven't heard/read him discuss Treblinka or any other camp. This might be the source of the confusion... It seems possible the original chambers may have been destroyed and the reconstructed building was simply inaccurate and therefore cast a shadow of doubt as it was being represented as the real mccoy to tourists and school children. If this were acknowledged, it might put the whole issue to rest.
    Out beyond the ideas of right-doing or wrong-doing there is a field- I'll meet you there.

    -Jelaluddin Rumi

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to 3optic For This Post:

    Cidersomerset (16th December 2013)

  23. Link to Post #312
    Avalon Member 3optic's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th March 2010
    Location
    Waltzing between the raindrops
    Posts
    526
    Thanks
    608
    Thanked 724 times in 235 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    Irving has made claims that the Jews deserve to be disliked; that they brought the Holocaust on themselves.
    I recently discovered these comments by him. Unmarking his site as a result.

    *note: My initial reaction to this thread was an eye roll until I started reading and realized much of what I know of this subject is taken on faith. This was a necessary step as much of what has passed for fact in the official narration of WWII has proved otherwise as we all know. For the record, I never doubted the Nazi regime's reputation for despotism and murder. Oversteering corrected
    Last edited by 3optic; 16th December 2013 at 16:58.
    Out beyond the ideas of right-doing or wrong-doing there is a field- I'll meet you there.

    -Jelaluddin Rumi

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 3optic For This Post:

    Cidersomerset (16th December 2013), loungelizard (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013)

  25. Link to Post #313
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    390
    Thanks
    2,042
    Thanked 1,074 times in 318 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by 3optic (here)
    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    Irving has made claims that the Jews deserve to be disliked; that they brought the Holocaust on themselves.
    I recently discovered these comments by him. Unmarking his site as a result.

    *note: My initial reaction to this thread was an eye roll until I started reading and realized much of what I know of this subject is taken on faith. This was a necessary step as much of what has passed for fact in the official narration of WWII has proved otherwise as we all know. For the record, I never doubted the Nazi regime's reputation for despotism and murder. Oversteering corrected
    ..........

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    Cidersomerset (16th December 2013), Milneman (16th December 2013)

  27. Link to Post #314
    Ecuador Avalon Member Davidallany's Avatar
    Join Date
    21st February 2011
    Location
    Loja
    Language
    English
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,970
    Thanks
    7,564
    Thanked 6,056 times in 1,577 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    Quote Posted by Davidallany (here)
    Not all winnings are actual winnings. How many groups and individuals are absolutly sure and confident in their rock-solid views? In my experience if one does't want to know, then there is no need to waste energy on informing and helping. The stuff one has and imagen to have can get in the way, after all how can one decide what truth is with just the tools of perception at our disposal. Yet there is hope, still.
    I'm sorry but I can't understand quite what you are saying here, Davidallany. Please could you explain a little further?
    Hi there loungelizard, one needs to be a good meditater to understand what I was saying.
    But for your benefit, I was saying that it is difficult to see with just two eyes. Real seeing involves putting to use all the three eyes most of us have, otherwise our views are very narrow and the perception generated is incomplete and lacking.


  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Davidallany For This Post:

    Andrew (16th December 2013)

  29. Link to Post #315
    Ecuador Avalon Member Davidallany's Avatar
    Join Date
    21st February 2011
    Location
    Loja
    Language
    English
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,970
    Thanks
    7,564
    Thanked 6,056 times in 1,577 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
    I am watching the docu/Drama Conspiracy I did watch it when it first came out and
    thought I'd better refresh my memory. I am halfway thru and need a break
    and comment on a few things while still fresh.Its clear Hitler knew what the
    term 'Evacutaion' really mean't. He may of left the details to his subordinates, but it
    is clear by association he is as guilty as hell from the policies against the Jews and
    other 'undesirables' that were NAZI party doctrine and policy from the beginning.



    Conspiracy is a television film which dramatizes the 1942 Wannsee Conference. The
    film delves into the psychology of Nazi officials involved in the "Final Solution of the
    Jewish Question" during World War II. It is an English-language adaptation of the
    German film The Wannsee Conference (1984) which is a must see for anyone who
    appreciates WW2, Holocaust historical films.
    The movie was written by Loring Mandel (inspired after viewing a 1984
    documentary on the subject), directed by Frank Pierson, and starred an ensemble
    cast, including Kenneth Branagh as Reinhard Heydrich and Stanley Tucci as Adolf
    Eichmann. Branagh won an Emmy Award for Best Actor, and Tucci was awarded a
    Golden Globe for his supporting role as Eichmann.


    ====================================================

    German Fuhrer Adolf Hitler addresses Reichstag proclaiming new laws for the protection of German blood and honor



    Nazi Germany Fuhrer Adolf Hitler in Germany. Adolf Hitler addresses from a
    podium. A Nazi flag fluttering. Nazi agenda includes a law for the protection of
    German blood and German honor, prohibition on Jews marrying outside their race,
    division of Germans into 'Citizens' and 'Members' with Jews as members only, and
    prohibition on Jews flying the German flag.

    This historic stock footage available in HD and SD video. View pricing in lower left
    of video player.


    Archive vid on link...
    http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...ews-prohibited




    ====================================================





    The laws were then read by Reichstag President Hermann Göring as follows:


    Reich Citizenship Law of September 15, 1935


    I. 1. A subject of the State is a person who belongs to the protective union of the
    German Reich, and who therefore has particular obligations towards the Reich. 2.
    The status of subject is acquired in accordance with the provisions of the Reich and
    State Law of Citizenship.

    II. 1. A citizen of the Reich is that subject only who is of German or kindred blood
    and who, through his conduct, shows that he is both desirous and fit to serve the
    German people and Reich faithfully.

    http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...nurem-laws.htm

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Nuremberg Laws:
    Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor

    (September 15, 1935)

    Nuremberg Laws: Table of Contents | Background & Overview | Reich Citizenship Law

    Entirely convinced that the purity of German blood is essential to the further
    existence of the German people, and inspired by the uncompromising
    determination to safeguard the future of the German nation, the Reichstag has
    unanimously resolved upon the following law, which is promulgated herewith:


    Section 1


    1. Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or kindred blood are forbidden.
    Marriages concluded in defiance of this law are void, even if, for the purpose of
    evading this law, they were concluded abroad.

    2. Proceedings for annulment may be initiated only by the Public Prosecutor.

    Section 2


    Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and nationals of German or
    kindred blood are forbidden.

    Section 3


    Jews will not be permitted to employ female citizens of German or kindred blood as

    domestic servants.

    Section 4


    1. Jews are forbidden to display the Reich and national flag or the national colors.

    2. On the other hand they are permitted to display the Jewish colors. The exercise
    of this right is protected by the State.

    Section 5


    1. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 1 will be punished with
    hard labour.

    2. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 2 will be punished with
    imprisonment or with hard labour.

    3. A person who acts contrary to the provisions of Sections 3 or

    4 will be punished with imprisonment up to a year and with a fine, or with one of
    these penalties.

    Section 6


    The Reich Minister of the Interior in agreement with the Deputy Fuhrer and the
    Reich Minister of Justice will issue the legal and administrative regulations required
    for the enforcement and supplementing of this law.

    Section 7


    The law will become effective on the day after its promulgation; Section 3,
    however, not until 1 January 1936.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../nurmlaw2.html




    Deutsch: Die Nürnberger Gesetze, 1935: Deutschblütiger, Mischling 2. Grades,
    Mischling 1. Grades, Jude

    English: Chart to describe Nuremberg Laws, 1935. The "Nuremberg Laws"
    established a pseudo-scientific basis for racial identification. Only people with four
    German grandparents (four white circles in top row left) were of "German blood". A
    Jew is someone who descends from three or four Jewish grandparents (black circles
    in top row right). In the middle stood people of "mixed blood" of the "first or second
    degree." A Jewish grandparent was defined as a person who is or was a member of
    a Jewish religious community. Also includes a list of allowed marriages ("Ehe
    gestattet") and forbidden marriages ("Ehe verboten").



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws

    ====================================================

    The systematic destruction of Jewish religious identy in the Reich was well
    under way before the war.





    Uploaded on 27 Jan 2011


    Crystal night, as the pogrom that occurred on the night of November 9-10, 1938
    was called, resulted in the destruction of nearly all the synagogues in Germany and
    Austria (more than 1,500), many Jewish cemeteries, thousands of Jewish owned
    stores and 29 department stores. More than thirty thousand Jews were arrested,
    sometimes by predetermined lists, and were sent to concentration camps. Some
    400 Jews were murdered and hundreds more seriously hurt. A few Germans with
    a "Jewish appearance" were also murdered.
    And how many innocent Muslims or Muslim-looking were killed, arrested or made homeless because of what seems to be a Western Anti-semitism/Anti Muslim/Anti turban propaganda?
    Who is to take the blame here? The British, the Americans or who? Who is worse than who and by what degree?

  30. Link to Post #316
    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th September 2011
    Location
    A dream called Life
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,888
    Thanks
    88,306
    Thanked 48,964 times in 7,673 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    I don't think of all the misery but of the beauty that still remains.

    - Anne Frank




    Rest of the interview:
    https://youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=eWBDrR65mdw
    https://youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=4-Ar_T9InBE
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

  31. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Post:

    Agape (17th December 2013), Cidersomerset (17th December 2013), loungelizard (17th December 2013), Milneman (17th December 2013)

  32. Link to Post #317
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th March 2010
    Posts
    5,563
    Thanks
    14,037
    Thanked 25,243 times in 4,597 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25407284

    Kaliningrad: European fears over Russian missiles

    European countries bordering Russia's territory of Kaliningrad say they are worried at reports that Moscow has put nuclear-capable missiles there.

    Lithuania and Poland both issued statements of concern.

    Russia has not confirmed the report but insists it has every right to station missiles in its western-most region.

    Moscow has long threatened to move Iskander short-range missile systems to Kaliningrad in response to the United States' own European missile shield.

    Russia sees the missile shield as a threat to its nuclear deterrent.

    It was one of the biggest sources of confrontation between Moscow and Washington during the presidencies of George W Bush and Vladimir Putin.

    President Barack Obama tried to "reset" relations with Russia, and the shield system was revised - but it survived in a different form and continued to antagonise Russia.

    'No violation'
    The US insists that the missile shield is not aimed at Russia but designed to defend Europe from attack from "rogue states" - assumed to include Iran.

    A Russian defence ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, did not confirm the report - in the German newspaper Bild - that the Iskander system had been deployed to Kaliningrad.

    But he did say: "Iskander operational-tactical missile systems have indeed been commissioned by the Western Military District's missile and artillery forces," adding that Russia's deployment "does not violate any international treaties or agreements".

    The Western Military District includes parts of western and north-western Russia, including the Kaliningrad exclave, which is separated from Russia proper and wedged between Poland, Lithuania, and the Baltic Sea.

    The Russian newspaper Izvestia reported on Monday that the missiles had already been stationed in the area for more than a year.

    Lithuania's Defence Minister Juozas Olekas said: "I am worried about signals that Russia is about to modernise missile systems it has deployed in Kaliningrad.

    "Further militarisation of this region, bordering the Baltic states and Nato, creates further anxiety, and we will be watching the situation there closely.''

    The Polish foreign ministry said: "Plans to deploy new Iskander-M rockets in [Kaliningrad] are worrying."

    It added that such a deployment "would contradict effective Polish-Russian co-operation, in particular with respect to this region, and undermine constructive dialogue between Nato and Russia. We will raise this topic in our bilateral contacts with the Russian side."




    Is this war ever going to end is what's bothering me the most . It's never stopped yet, no matter what times , what historical epoch , of course there were some defined wars with names and battles and times of fragile peace but even if you look at the world from todays perspective , there are numerous fire zones and the war industry just grew bigger , too big, over our heads .

    Let me tell you what I think about it . And it does not mean I want to offend anyones 'ministry of righteous defence' either .

    In core of all these wars are true psychopaths , born or grown , who enjoy killing , who can't think otherwise than it terms of allies and enemies and play war games in their heads at all times .

    You can meet some of them on all walks of life, some are just discrete haters of this and that group and part of society, nations or races or religions but those are not more than excuses, created by their brain in clever circuits to keep their 'enemies alive' .

    Where do I come from with my observation .. is knowing myself, and other people , and I dare to say it's majority of us who are 'people of peace' .

    We want to live, cultivate life , enjoy life without harming it as far as possible , we want to heal , grow , build, cultivate sciences, fields, arts, spirit , thoughts, harm no one.
    We don't need wars , not even crazy war games on computer, we don't need crazy fights to beat each other to blood .

    And I know that such are people all around the planet , on all continents, all countries , most of them want nothing more than there is peace

    so tell me, where do the wars come from ?

    Well, I can tell you .. looking deep to remote history of mankind that they've always been here,
    people of peace .. and warrior tribes , aggressive and war-like who lived by looting, killing , robbing others of their land and crops , raping and enjoying what they did in the name of 'power' .

    It's in their genes . The world nowadays is very populated and inter-mixed so such people are now born in every country and part of the world, with few exceptions .
    They don't belong to any single tribe anymore but they're there,
    with damaged parts of brain sending them on killing sprees, searching their enemies everywhere , they in fact, continue inventing enemies on the go.

    The very horror of this world seems to be that no one has yet realised where does the danger come from,
    instead it's being blamed on 'bad politics' , religions, economy, resources, races and so forth while none of this is true and all these serve as excuses to the war-like psychopaths who keep perpetuating the existing wars in their heads .


    They should be sought , the problem recognised and severed at its root . Such people should receive special treatment , possibly from childhood,
    instead being employed by military , prisons and other 'security forces' where they are free to exercise their psychopathic traits and promote aggression and violence ,
    and turn young kids to killing machines , thus damaging them for the rest of their lives .

    I'm not saying that 'defence' is not needed , so are 'humanitarian corpse' but it should stick with defence and aid to others in need .

    Such decision, about extinguishing violence and its causes should be taken globally , on behalf of all nations and safety of people of this Planet .

    If it won't , the war game played by perverted individuals behind our backs, who truly force their governments to spend billions of dollars on developing nuclear war heads and other super weapons , with excuse of fighting their many potential enemies all over the globe and behind every corner, not only won't stop
    but it will be played to its successful end one day or another because those very individuals mentioned are not satisfied by threatening all of us,
    they see a true meaning and importance in what they do. Else they would not do it.

    If such people do not exist .. global disarmament would happen long ago .



  33. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Agape For This Post:

    Cidersomerset (17th December 2013), loungelizard (17th December 2013), Marc Barrie (12th January 2014), Milneman (17th December 2013)

  34. Link to Post #318
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote And how many innocent Muslims or Muslim-looking were killed, arrested or made homeless because of what seems to be a Western Anti-semitism/Anti Muslim/Anti turban propaganda?
    Who is to take the blame here? The British, the Americans or who? Who is worse than who and by what degree?
    I have referred to this and all the other atrocities that have happened since man first clubbed his rival, The NAZI have not
    had the monopoly on genocide , many Empires and most cultures have at one time or other. Just look at the Americas after Columbus.
    The Bible is full of massacres and we could go on and on. The Muslims are the latest in a long line of oppressed peoples.

    This thread was about Hitler and the speech the west did not want to hear and developed from there as to whether he ordered
    the genocide of 'undesirables' the Jews being one of those groups. We as a species have so far not learn't from history and
    if we do not evolve out of these war and peace cycles history will continue repeating itself. The League of nations, then the
    united nations were set up to create a forum to start a debating platform to try and prevent conflicts. This as a concept
    is still in its early stages and the sovereign state for good or bad still has the final say on its destiny.

    I don't know where we will go from here, it depends on the ET factor to some extent and to wether we embrace them or
    fight them when discosure eventually comes out, and many other factors.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 17th December 2013 at 14:38.

  35. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    Agape (17th December 2013), loungelizard (17th December 2013), Wind (17th December 2013)

  36. Link to Post #319
    UK Avalon Member
    Join Date
    24th March 2011
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,947
    Thanks
    7,148
    Thanked 23,260 times in 3,618 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by Andrew (here)
    Quote Posted by OnyxKnight (here)
    Andrew, its you making "the point" (one which you didn't explain). So yes, stand behind your words.
    I am neutral in this discussion but have been called a holocaust denier threatened that they might knock on my door and called a troll from a gay and a jew lol

    So it's a little biased.


    Are you trying to get this thread closed?

    Tony
    www.buddhainthemud.com

  37. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tony For This Post:

    loungelizard (17th December 2013), OnyxKnight (17th December 2013)

  38. Link to Post #320
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    390
    Thanks
    2,042
    Thanked 1,074 times in 318 posts

    Default Re: The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

    Quote Posted by Davidallany (here)
    Hi there loungelizard, one needs to be a good meditater to understand what I was saying.
    But for your benefit, I was saying that it is difficult to see with just two eyes. Real seeing involves putting to use all the three eyes most of us have, otherwise our views are very narrow and the perception generated is incomplete and lacking.

    Thank you for your reply to my question.

    I queried your initial post as it stood out for being enigmatic and ambiguous on a thread that is trying to look at evidence and consider possible agenda rather than merely listen to people's views, which, as we all know, are tainted. Unfortunately, your reply has done nothing to clarify.

    Tell us, David. What does your third eye tell you about the holocaust that your two eyes, when looking at the avalanche of evidence, don't see ?
    Last edited by loungelizard; 17th December 2013 at 12:07.

  39. The Following User Says Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    Cidersomerset (17th December 2013)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 16 of 33 FirstFirst 1 6 16 26 33 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts