The Illusion Of Matter: Our Physical Reality Isn't Really Physical At All

[naste.de.lumina]

P. S. : Some comments

We can't formulate the laws of quantum mechanics without resorting to the concept of consciousness - ie , no quantum mechanics without conscience - Nobel physicist Eugene Wibigger

Have some time that I have posted selected for quality information on the relationship and fundamental importance that quantum physics has to offer as a whole.
This is explained by evidence in scientific experiments , carried out by qualified professionals , seeking to unravel the nature of our existence .

Important to emphasize that it is and always will be impossible, to separate science from religion, if the real goal is honest knowledge.

It will be a big problem for the drivers of global religious institutions when and if people receive information / knowledge about everything that means the perspective of quantum physics .

My sincere intention is to contribute to the expansion of human / spiritual consciousness as a whole, because our material body is only a necessary uniform in order to study in the Earth school.

Hug .
Naste .

The Illusion Of Matter: Our Physical Reality Isnt Really Physical At All

December 9, 2013.
Niels Bohr, a Danish Physicist who made significant contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum theory once said: if quantum mechanics hasnt profoundly shocked you, you havent understood it yet. Quantum physics has left scientists all over the world baffled, especially with the discovery that our physical material reality, isnt really physical at all. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. It seems philosophers of our ancient past were right, our senses really do deceive us.


Again, our physical material reality really ISNT physical at all. The meaning, significance and implications of these findings within our quantum world have led to a plethora of ideas and theories, some of which lay inside the label of pseudo-science. This article will present scientific evidence that clearly shows the connections between consciousness and what we call reality and how these can no longer be denied. It will also ponder the implications of this knowing, and how this realization plays an important role in the potential transformation of our planet, at a time when we need it the most.

The notion that the atom was the smallest particle in the universe fell with the discovery that the atom itself is made up of even smaller, subatomic elements. What was even more shocking was the revelation that these subatomic particles emit various strange energies.(0) Proponents would argue that the findings within quantum physics only apply and are significant at the subatomic level, but to those I say, are we not all existing at the subatomic level? When we observe ourselves and our physical environment at the smallest level, are we not made up of atoms? Are we not made up of subatomic particles? Are we not what we observe?

At the turn of the ninetieth century, physicists started to explore the relationship between energy and the structure of matter. In doing so, the belief that a physical, Newtonian material universe that was at the very heart of scientific knowing was dropped, and the realization that matter is nothing but an illusion replaced it. Scientists began to recognize that everything in the Universe is made out of energy.

Quantum physicists discovered that physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature. Therefore, if we really want to observe ourselves and find out what we are, we are really beings of energy and vibration, radiating our own unique energy signature -this is fact and is what quantum physics has shown us time and time again. We are much more than what we perceive ourselves to be, and its time we begin to see ourselves in that light. If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope, you would see a small, invisible tornado like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void.(0) The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really dont have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

Its quite the conundrum, isnt it? Our experience tells us that our reality is made up of physical material things, and that our world is an independently existing objective one. Again, what quantum mechanics reveals is that there is no true physicality in the universe, that atoms are made of focused vorticies of energy-miniature tornadoes that are constantly popping into and out of existence. The revelation that the universe is not an assembly of physical parts, suggested by Newtonian physics, and instead comes from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves stems from the work of Albert Einstein, Max Planck, and Werner Heisenberg, among others. (0)

Despite the findings of quantum physics many scientists today still cling onto the prevailing matter-oriented worldview, for no good reason at all. As mentioned earlier, these scientists restrict quantum theorys validity to the subatomic world. If we know that matter isnt physical, how can we further our scientific discovery by treating it as physical?

Despite the unrivaled empirical success of quantum theory, the very suggestion that it may be literally true as a description of nature is still greeted with cynicism, incomprehension and even anger. (T. Folger, Quantum Shmantum; Discover 22:37-43, 2001)

What Does This Mean?

What does it mean that our physical material reality isnt really physical at all? It could mean a number of things, and concepts such as this cannot be explored if scientists remain within the boundaries of the only perceived world existing, the world we see. Fortunately, many scientists have already taken the leap, and have already questioned the meaning and implications of what weve discovered with quantum physics. One of these potential revelations is that the observer creates the reality.

A fundamental conclusion of the new physics also acknowledges that the observer creates the reality. As observers, we are personally involved with the creation of our own reality. Physicists are being forced to admit that the universe is a mental construction. Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, The Mental Universe; Nature 436:29, 2005) (14)

We can no longer ignore the fact that our beliefs, perceptions and attitudes (consciousness) create the world.

Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual (14)

One great example that illustrates the role of consciousness within the physical material world (which we know not to be so physical) is the double slit experiment. This experiment has been used multiple times to explore the role of consciousness in shaping the nature of physical reality. (2)

A double-slit optical system was used to test the possible role of consciousness in the collapse of the quantum wave-function.(2) The ratio of the interference patterns double-slit spectral power to its single-slit spectral power was predicted to decrease when attention was focused toward the double-slit as compared to away from it.(2) The study found that factors associated with consciousness, such as meditation, experience, electrocortical markers of focused attention and psychological factors such as openness and absorption, significantly correlated in predicted ways with perturbations in the double-slit interference pattern.(2)

Below is a video that demonstrates the double slit experiment from the film What the bleep do we know.

The problem presented in this experiment is called the quantum measurement problem (QMP). It refers to (as seen in the video) the intriguing effect whereby quantum objects appear to behave differently when observed than when unobserved.(2) Scientists only view it as a problem because it disregards what our senses tell us, that the world is completely independent of observation. This problem has led to the study of the role of observation and measurement -which many believe to be one aspect of consciousness due to our mind-like capacity of awareness, attention and intention.

Observation not only disturb what has to be measured, they produce it. We compel the electron to assume a definite position. We ourselves produce the results of the measurement. (2)

These types of experiments are not the only ones available that show consciousness does play a role, and is interconnected with our physical material reality in some way. The possible influence of human consciousness on the behavior of physical or biological systems has been subject to rigorous research and documentation for a number of years by several researches. Many of the experiments that use the role of human consciousness and how it affects our physical material world have been done so under the Department of Defense and military agencies, thus remaining classified -hidden science kept from the eyes of the mainstream public world. (3)

One example of this is the 24-year government-sponsored program to investigate ESP and its potential use within the Intelligence Community. This operation was called START GATE , and most of its research and findings remain classified to this day. (4) Another example is the research conducted by the CIA and NSA in conjunction with Stanford University. (5)(6)(7).

Personally, I am compelled to believe that much of the science that deals with the weirdness of the quantum world, and many of its technological applications remains within the realm of the classified world. A world so secretive that it could be thousands, if not millions of years ahead of the mainstream world.

What Level Of Consciousness Do You Operate From?

Now that weve established that our physical makeup is one that is not physical at all, where do we go from here? We are atoms, made up of subatomic particles, that are actually a bunch of energy vibrating at a certain frequency. Us, these vibrational beings of energy exhibit consciousness, which has been shown to manifest, create and correlate to our physical material world. The next question to ask ourselves is: what level of consciousness/ state of being do we individually, and more importantly, collectively operate from?

Studies have shown that positive emotions and operating from a place of peace within oneself can lead to a very different experience for the person emitting those emotions and for those around them. At our subatomic level, does the vibrational frequency change the manifestation of physical reality? If so, in what way? We know that when an atom changes its state, it absorbs or emits electromagnetic frequencies, which are responsible for changing its state. (15) Do different states of emotion, perception and feelings result in different electromagnetic frequencies? Yes! This has been proven. (8)

Below is a video that uses the example of the heart, and sheds some light on some facts you may not have known.

The non-physical world is weird, isnt it? The fact that material substances (matter) appear out of thin air, with lots of evidence to point to consciousness as that which is creating it, is pretty intriguing. One minute we are holding a physical object in our hand, like a coin, and then the next minute we realize that if we were to focus in on the coins material substance with an atomic microscope, we would see that we are actually holding nothing.

The best we can do for now is understand that the human race must operate from a place of peace, a place of co-operation and understanding. We must realize that we are all interconnected, that we can solve our problems here easily, given the fact that we have a number of solutions. The only way we will be able to implement and utilize these solutions is through a shift in consciousness. The world is indeed waking up. My soul knows the significance of these findings, it is difficult for the mind to explain. Hopefully I did a decent job.

Lipton, H Bruce. The Biology of Belief. United States: Hay House INC. 2008

** Referral links for this story are contained in the link from the original source

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

Source: http://www.disclose.tv/news/The_Illu...l_At_All/96949

[Bubu]

[QUOTE=naste.de.lumina;772163]P. S. : Some comments

The best we can do for now is understand that the human race must operate from a place of peace, a place of co-operation and understanding. We must realize that we are all interconnected, that we can solve our problems here easily, given the fact that we have a number of solutions. The only way we will be able to implement and utilize these solutions is through a shift in consciousness. The world is indeed waking up. My soul knows the significance of these findings, it is difficult for the mind to explain. Hopefully I did a decent job.

Lipton, H Bruce. The Biology of Belief. United States: Hay House INC. 2008

Agree mate, definitely.

Just want to highlight this

[Realeyes]

Thank you naste.de.lumina for this well thought out thread...........this subject really promotes conscious awareness expanding. There is never a dull moment in the Quantum.

I too really appreciate Fred Alan Wolf's and Bruce Lipton's inspiring work - AND they are genius wonderful people/characters/teachers within themselves sprinkled with wonderful humour. I remember going to one of Bruce Lipton's talks. He made quite an entrance by almost skipping onto the stage, grabbed the microphone in a 'tongue-in-cheek' humour grinning from ear to ear with sparkles in his eyes and said something like (paraphrasing), "My doctor told me I was a manic depressive.....(long pause)............. Now I am just manic! Audience reeled with laughter. His work is so fascinating, and the more excited and passionate he is on a certain discovery the faster he speaks. It was one of the best 2 hours spent listening to his wisdoms. I am so pleased his work is becoming better known to people around the world.

For anyone new to the Quantum subject and is a book reader, I highly recommend Fred Alan Wolf's book 'Taking the Quantum Leap'; it is a well written with humour, easy to read and understand laying out in linear progression the history following the conscious ponderings of the ancients philosophers, then into the progressions of the Sciences then into Quantum Sciences then flipping into the esoteric world of the spiritual mediums/teachers and how ALL of these independent categories interrelate. It was one of my first books I read on this subject, a great beginners 'dot connecter'. I have lent my copy out to many people over the years who were on their spiritual path but zero fascination with Science. Well..... after reading this book they were hungry to discover more as such knowledge helped them to understand from a perspective of Quantum Science their own spiritual journey and experiences.

[greybeard]

Furthermore the "world and that includes us" pulses in and out of existence every mili second.
Now you see it now you don’t.
Also
It seems that there is so much empty space in each atom etc which makes up the total human bodies of the USA that if you take that out of the equation then you could fit what is left (total population of USA)--ie so called solid into a large match box.
I havent articulated that very well.
That's on a Gregg Braden lecture and also on a Dannion Brinkly interview posted recently.
What we see is not really the whole true picture.
As said in the OP the ancients knew this.
Through sitting in meditation they found the answer to many things that puzzle us today.

Chris

[Anchor]

Super article - this is what it bought to mind :

Posted by Law of One: Session 1:0
...Let us for a moment consider thought. What is it, my friends, to take thought? Took you then thought today? What thoughts did you think today? What thoughts were part of the original thought today? In how many of your thoughts did the creation abide? Was love contained? And was service freely given? You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Realeyes (here)
Thank you naste.de.lumina for this well thought out thread...........this subject really promotes conscious awareness expanding. There is never a dull moment in the Quantum.

I too really appreciate Fred Alan Wolf's and Bruce Lipton's inspiring work - AND they are genius wonderful people/characters/teachers within themselves sprinkled with wonderful humour. I remember going to one of Bruce Lipton's talks. He made quite an entrance by almost skipping onto the stage, grabbed the microphone in a 'tongue-in-cheek' humour grinning from ear to ear with sparkles in his eyes and said something like (paraphrasing), "My doctor told me I was a manic depressive.....(long pause)............. Now I am just manic! Audience reeled with laughter. His work is so fascinating, and the more excited and passionate he is on a certain discovery the faster he speaks. It was one of the best 2 hours spent listening to his wisdoms. I am so pleased his work is becoming better known to people around the world.

For anyone new to the Quantum subject and is a book reader, I highly recommend Fred Alan Wolf's book 'Taking the Quantum Leap'; it is a well written with humour, easy to read and understand laying out in linear progression the history following the conscious ponderings of the ancients philosophers, then into the progressions of the Sciences then into Quantum Sciences then flipping into the esoteric world of the spiritual mediums/teachers and how ALL of these independent categories interrelate. It was one of my first books I read on this subject, a great beginners 'dot connecter'. I have lent my copy out to many people over the years who were on their spiritual path but zero fascination with Science. Well..... after reading this book they were hungry to discover more as such knowledge helped them to understand from a perspective of Quantum Science their own spiritual journey and experiences.

You are absolutely right dear friend Realeyes.

These are significant information when and if well understood can modify a personal paradigm. It's a leap of dimension itself in the way of observing reality. This 'new' dimension, many things considered 'exotic' in the previous dimension, are possible. Energy = Information = expansion of consciousness.

Thank you.

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Anchor (here)
Super article - this is what it bought to mind :

Posted by Law of One: Session 1:0
...Let us for a moment consider thought. What is it, my friends, to take thought? Took you then thought today? What thoughts did you think today? What thoughts were part of the original thought today? In how many of your thoughts did the creation abide? Was love contained? And was service freely given? You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.

Dear Friend.
This topic from this post I talk a bit about a theory I have about the universe is a giant brain and its relationship with us.
Grateful.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post746301

[Frederick Jackson]

Interesting sentence on religion and science. It is that way for me. And it was that way for the Romans. They regarded science as a discipline within religion. Makes sense, as religion is or ought to be concerned with the truth.

[Finefeather]

Posted by greybeard (here)
It seems that there is so much empty space in each atom etc which makes up the total human bodies of the USA that if you take that out of the equation then you could fit what is left (total population of USA)--ie so called solid into a large match box.

Hi Dear Chris...please do not see this as an attack on you personally...just using your post as a springboard.

According to esoterics this is totally incorrect. There is no such thing as empty space. Just because we cannot measure it or detect it with our primitive science, does not mean it is empty space.
According to ancient writings the 'stuff' we call empty space is known as Akasha...a word meaning "aether". Today, with a little more knowledge seeping through we know that aether is the substance found in the immediate higher subtle worlds.

I find it exciting that science is slowly catching up with esoterics as they did when they found out that the thing they call an 'atom' was not solid...a fact which was known 1000s of years ago and the rest. They then found sub-atomic particles...now they have got to realizing that even these are not solid. Each time been baffled by the ‘empty’ space left inside these ever smaller and smaller particles. They now call this empty space dark matter...because they have to call it something because they are stumped. Each time there is some breakthrough they come face to face with another hurdle...simply because they have not yet discovered the real physical atom.

But science will never be able to discover the real truth simply because the equipment required to do this is impossible to build at this level of reality...the 'physical'...to detect the true source (primordial matter) of the mystery...which according to esoterics is 48 levels away from the physical...and we still insist that we are close to realizing what’s going on !

According to esoteric

1-atoms are the fundamental particles of the physical plane (plane 1), 2-atoms are the fundamental particles of plane 2, 3-atoms are the fundamental particles of plane 3, etc. According to Leadbeater, each 1-atom is composed of forty nine 2-atoms, each 2-atom is composed of forty nine 3-atoms, each 3-atom is composed of forty nine 4-atoms, etc. The matter of the lower planes is composed of the matter of the higher planes, so all the planes can interpenetrate each other and occupy the same space.

So if you work this out it takes 13,841,287,201 (49^6) physical plane fundamental particles to create ONE physical atom...not the thing science calls an atom...and each of these has more ‘empty’ space.

By the time you get to this fundamental physical particle, it is so small that our minds can’t even imagine it, never mind detecting it with some piece of equipment.

Then we can read further:

In addition to the four phases of physical matter (solid, liquid, gas and plasma) recognised by modern science, the alchemists of old recognised a fifth element. They believed everything was created from the five elements: Earth (solid), Water (liquid), Wind (gas), Fire (plasma) and Aether (ether). They recognised aether as a phase of subtle matter that filled all space and supported the propagation of electromagnetic waves (e.g. light and magnetism). According to Leadbeater there are actually seven phases of physical matter; and where that ends different kinds of even subtler matter begin. The three lowest phases of physical matter (1:1, 1:2 and 1:3) broadly correspond to solid, liquid and gas. The four higher phases of physical matter (1:4, 1:5, 1:6 and 1:7) are etheric, and are what science refers to as subatomic particles or dark matter. 1-atoms belong to the 1:7 phase and combine in many different molecular permutations to produce the hundreds of sub-atomic particles and chemical elements known to science.

Now here’s the stunning part: There are 49 levels to the Cosmos so this means that the real physical atom consists of still 48 more levels of particles...the physical is the lowest hence the densest...to get to the primordial atoms...each created from primordial matter.
Can you get your mind around that...I can’t

This is also the problem we face with those who think there is such a thing as formless. Formlessness is only perceived because consciousness, at the level of the majority, is unable to objectively perceive the matter in higher worlds...and that at only ONE level above the gaseous state, never mind the astral (emotional) or mental levels of our consciousness...where many have out of body journeys and think and report back that there is no matter there.

As we venture into higher worlds like the emotional(astral), mental, and causal...objectivity takes on a different manifestation...like light displays and beautiful forms and landscapes etc.

We live in a cosmos so complex, yet we little humans believe we are so close to cracking the holy grail...we are far from knowing, and it is pointless for most to even venture into this science although it is terribly exciting and pleasant to consider and chat about around a camp fire

Take care
Ray

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It seems that there is so much empty space in each atom etc which makes up the total human bodies of the USA that if you take that out of the equation then you could fit what is left (total population of USA)--ie so called solid into a large match box.

Hi Dear Chris...please do not see this as an attack on you personally...just using your post as a springboard.

According to esoterics this is totally incorrect. There is no such thing as empty space. Just because we cannot measure it or detect it with our primitive science, does not mean it is empty space.
According to ancient writings the 'stuff' we call empty space is known as Akasha...a word meaning "aether". Today, with a little more knowledge seeping through we know that aether is the substance found in the immediate higher subtle worlds.

I find it exciting that science is slowly catching up with esoterics as they did when they found out that the thing they call an 'atom' was not solid...a fact which was known 1000s of years ago and the rest. They then found sub-atomic particles...now they have got to realizing that even these are not solid. Each time been baffled by the ‘empty’ space left inside these ever smaller and smaller particles. They now call this empty space dark matter...because they have to call it something because they are stumped. Each time there is some breakthrough they come face to face with another hurdle...simply because they have not yet discovered the real physical atom.

But science will never be able to discover the real truth simply because the equipment required to do this is impossible to build at this level of reality...the 'physical'...to detect the true source (primordial matter) of the mystery...which according to esoterics is 48 levels away from the physical...and we still insist that we are close to realizing what’s going on !

According to esoteric

1-atoms are the fundamental particles of the physical plane (plane 1), 2-atoms are the fundamental particles of plane 2, 3-atoms are the fundamental particles of plane 3, etc. According to Leadbeater, each 1-atom is composed of forty nine 2-atoms, each 2-atom is composed of forty nine 3-atoms, each 3-atom is composed of forty nine 4-atoms, etc. The matter of the lower planes is composed of the matter of the higher planes, so all the planes can interpenetrate each other and occupy the same space.

So if you work this out it takes 13,841,287,201 (49^6) physical plane fundamental particles to create ONE physical atom...not the thing science calls an atom...and each of these has more ‘empty’ space.

By the time you get to this fundamental physical particle, it is so small that our minds can’t even imagine it, never mind detecting it with some piece of equipment.

Then we can read further:

In addition to the four phases of physical matter (solid, liquid, gas and plasma) recognised by modern science, the alchemists of old recognised a fifth element. They believed everything was created from the five elements: Earth (solid), Water (liquid), Wind (gas), Fire (plasma) and Aether (ether). They recognised aether as a phase of subtle matter that filled all space and supported the propagation of electromagnetic waves (e.g. light and magnetism). According to Leadbeater there are actually seven phases of physical matter; and where that ends different kinds of even subtler matter begin. The three lowest phases of physical matter (1:1, 1:2 and 1:3) broadly correspond to solid, liquid and gas. The four higher phases of physical matter (1:4, 1:5, 1:6 and 1:7) are etheric, and are what science refers to as subatomic particles or dark matter. 1-atoms belong to the 1:7 phase and combine in many different molecular permutations to produce the hundreds of sub-atomic particles and chemical elements known to science.

Now here’s the stunning part: There are 49 levels to the Cosmos so this means that the real physical atom consists of still 48 more levels of particles...the physical is the lowest hence the densest...to get to the primordial atoms...each created from primordial matter.
Can you get your mind around that...I can’t

This is also the problem we face with those who think there is such a thing as formless. Formlessness is only perceived because consciousness, at the level of the majority, is unable to objectively perceive the matter in higher worlds...and that at only ONE level above the gaseous state, never mind the astral (emotional) or mental levels of our consciousness...where many have out of body journeys and think and report back that there is no matter there.

As we venture into higher worlds like the emotional(astral), mental, and causal...objectivity takes on a different manifestation...like light displays and beautiful forms and landscapes etc.

We live in a cosmos so complex, yet we little humans believe we are so close to cracking the holy grail...we are far from knowing, and it is pointless for most to even venture into this science although it is terribly exciting and pleasant to consider and chat about around a camp fire

Take care
Ray

Dear friend Finefeather.

Thank you for your participation and for that suitable information.

Although we have much to learn and we are just beginning to uncover the veils, I'll keep trying because I have nothing better to do in the perspective of eternity.

And I really agree about the fun to discuss these issues.

Hug.
Naste.

[Finefeather]

Just another thing I thought I would jot down for consideration...

Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane.

If we think carefully and imagine ourself without any senses from birth...then what would we be able to be conscious of?
This is almost difficult to imagine because we are so filled with information, consciousness, from our senses since birth...and we take it for granted that consciousness came first.

So each sense gives us the ability to be conscious of some objective experience, which then gives us a grounding with which we are able to form our position and attitude in space and time.
These senses also form the basis of our initial emotional and mental consciousness when we see someone with a better looking girl friend or a better looking car etc

So if it was not for our senses interacting with the physical manifestation of things we would be quite void of any consciousness. Our emotional and mental faculties are there to allow attitude and thus quality of interaction with that which we perceive in our physical world...the source of the much discussed ego.

The energy or motion or fire part of this saga is the 'gas in the tank' which drives the entire cosmos and facilitates polarity and thus preference and will or drive in our lives.

So this is...very basically...why esoterics teaches that motion, consciousness and matter (the trinity) are the fundamental aspects of life...without any one of them life cannot exist...and each is dependant and inclusive of the other.

I wrote this in the group section on Hylozoics, and thought it might be useful.

The result of the vibration/energy/motion which causes the manifestation of objects(matter) is consciousness...and objective consciousness is the perception of matter in each density in the cosmos.

So we can now view this axiom from any side and it should be true.

But we first need to just sit back for a while and consider this: Consciousness can only exist if there is perception because if there was no perception then what, or who, is going to know that consciousness exists, if it was not perceivable. So we only know that we are conscious because we perceive things...primarily with our 5 senses in the physical world...and much less, if at all, in the etheric or emotional or higher worlds. When we are asleep most people are unconscious...we only know we were unconscious because of the time lapse...and time is an aspect of the motion aspect of the trinity.

So lets test the axiom...'motion causes matter which causes consciousness'
No motion means no matter and thus no consciousness.
No matter means no motion and thus no consciousness.
No consciousness means no matter and thus no motion.

It is also not just a great big stroke of coincidence that every religious and spiritual group each have their versions of the trinity...

Stay deep in thought...life is amazing
Love
Ray

[greybeard]

Yes Ray I agree re empty space--I was not very articulate.
Bruce Lipton has said that in the space, in the atom, lies the intelligence which forms the body and all else.
His work on stem cells ground breaking.

There is no separation because that intelligent "energetic" space pervades everything.
I have often seen the story of the empty space in the earthen pot being carried about, then the pot breaks and the space becomes one with the rest of space---but was it ever carried was it ever separate?
The story is to get people to think of the body as being the container-- some day it will break.
The body being a very high% of "empty space"
The mystics say that you are the space in which everything materialises-- you are within the body and the body is within you.
You/we are that intelligent, energetic, emptiness.
Beyond comprehension.

Chris

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Just another thing I thought I would jot down for consideration...

Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane.

If we think carefully and imagine ourself without any senses from birth...then what would we be able to be conscious of?
This is almost difficult to imagine because we are so filled with information, consciousness, from our senses since birth...and we take it for granted that consciousness came first.

So each sense gives us the ability to be conscious of some objective experience, which then gives us a grounding with which we are able to form our position and attitude in space and time.
These senses also form the basis of our initial emotional and mental consciousness when we see someone with a better looking girl friend or a better looking car etc

So if it was not for our senses interacting with the physical manifestation of things we would be quite void of any consciousness. Our emotional and mental faculties are there to allow attitude and thus quality of interaction with that which we perceive in our physical world...the source of the much discussed ego.

The energy or motion or fire part of this saga is the 'gas in the tank' which drives the entire cosmos and facilitates polarity and thus preference and will or drive in our lives.

So this is...very basically...why esoterics teaches that motion, consciousness and matter (the trinity) are the fundamental aspects of life...without any one of them life cannot exist...and each is dependant and inclusive of the other.

I wrote this in the group section on Hylozoics, and thought it might be useful.

The result of the vibration/energy/motion which causes the manifestation of objects(matter) is consciousness...and objective consciousness is the perception of matter in each density in the cosmos.

So we can now view this axiom from any side and it should be true.

But we first need to just sit back for a while and consider this: Consciousness can only exist if there is perception because if there was no perception then what, or who, is going to know that consciousness exists, if it was not perceivable. So we only know that we are conscious because we perceive things...primarily with our 5 senses in the physical world...and much less, if at all, in the etheric or emotional or higher worlds. When we are asleep most people are unconscious...we only know we were unconscious because of the time lapse...and time is an aspect of the motion aspect of the trinity.

So lets test the axiom...'motion causes matter which causes consciousness'
No motion means no matter and thus no consciousness.
No matter means no motion and thus no consciousness.
No consciousness means no matter and thus no motion.

It is also not just a great big stroke of coincidence that every religious and spiritual group each have their versions of the trinity...

Stay deep in thought...life is amazing
Love
Ray

Dear Friend.

On the topic below are two videos that demonstrate the energy field (aura and chakra) involving the human body and how the energy of thoughts and feelings exist independently of the body since we can feel them even when our astral body is separated from the physical body .


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post767654
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post767807

fix it on 12/22/2013

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It seems that there is so much empty space in each atom etc which makes up the total human bodies of the USA that if you take that out of the equation then you could fit what is left (total population of USA)--ie so called solid into a large match box.

Hi Dear Chris...please do not see this as an attack on you personally...just using your post as a springboard.

According to esoterics this is totally incorrect. There is no such thing as empty space. Just because we cannot measure it or detect it with our primitive science, does not mean it is empty space.
According to ancient writings the 'stuff' we call empty space is known as Akasha...a word meaning "aether". Today, with a little more knowledge seeping through we know that aether is the substance found in the immediate higher subtle worlds.

I find it exciting that science is slowly catching up with esoterics as they did when they found out that the thing they call an 'atom' was not solid...a fact which was known 1000s of years ago and the rest. They then found sub-atomic particles...now they have got to realizing that even these are not solid. Each time been baffled by the ‘empty’ space left inside these ever smaller and smaller particles. They now call this empty space dark matter...because they have to call it something because they are stumped. Each time there is some breakthrough they come face to face with another hurdle...simply because they have not yet discovered the real physical atom.

But science will never be able to discover the real truth simply because the equipment required to do this is impossible to build at this level of reality...the 'physical'...to detect the true source (primordial matter) of the mystery...which according to esoterics is 48 levels away from the physical...and we still insist that we are close to realizing what’s going on !

According to esoteric

1-atoms are the fundamental particles of the physical plane (plane 1), 2-atoms are the fundamental particles of plane 2, 3-atoms are the fundamental particles of plane 3, etc. According to Leadbeater, each 1-atom is composed of forty nine 2-atoms, each 2-atom is composed of forty nine 3-atoms, each 3-atom is composed of forty nine 4-atoms, etc. The matter of the lower planes is composed of the matter of the higher planes, so all the planes can interpenetrate each other and occupy the same space.

So if you work this out it takes 13,841,287,201 (49^6) physical plane fundamental particles to create ONE physical atom...not the thing science calls an atom...and each of these has more ‘empty’ space.

By the time you get to this fundamental physical particle, it is so small that our minds can’t even imagine it, never mind detecting it with some piece of equipment.

Then we can read further:

In addition to the four phases of physical matter (solid, liquid, gas and plasma) recognised by modern science, the alchemists of old recognised a fifth element. They believed everything was created from the five elements: Earth (solid), Water (liquid), Wind (gas), Fire (plasma) and Aether (ether). They recognised aether as a phase of subtle matter that filled all space and supported the propagation of electromagnetic waves (e.g. light and magnetism). According to Leadbeater there are actually seven phases of physical matter; and where that ends different kinds of even subtler matter begin. The three lowest phases of physical matter (1:1, 1:2 and 1:3) broadly correspond to solid, liquid and gas. The four higher phases of physical matter (1:4, 1:5, 1:6 and 1:7) are etheric, and are what science refers to as subatomic particles or dark matter. 1-atoms belong to the 1:7 phase and combine in many different molecular permutations to produce the hundreds of sub-atomic particles and chemical elements known to science.

Now here’s the stunning part: There are 49 levels to the Cosmos so this means that the real physical atom consists of still 48 more levels of particles...the physical is the lowest hence the densest...to get to the primordial atoms...each created from primordial matter.
Can you get your mind around that...I can’t

This is also the problem we face with those who think there is such a thing as formless. Formlessness is only perceived because consciousness, at the level of the majority, is unable to objectively perceive the matter in higher worlds...and that at only ONE level above the gaseous state, never mind the astral (emotional) or mental levels of our consciousness...where many have out of body journeys and think and report back that there is no matter there.

As we venture into higher worlds like the emotional(astral), mental, and causal...objectivity takes on a different manifestation...like light displays and beautiful forms and landscapes etc.

We live in a cosmos so complex, yet we little humans believe we are so close to cracking the holy grail...we are far from knowing, and it is pointless for most to even venture into this science although it is terribly exciting and pleasant to consider and chat about around a camp fire

Take care
Ray

Between Chris' post and yours, the most important thing I can glean from this for those on the journey is the re-enforcement that we are indeed fully multidimensional beings. Once we learn how this is so, and accept it, we can then start utilizing our intrinsic abilities to perceive beyond "realities" and understand the true nature of creation, where we once a gain be a part of the Universe rather than a subdued observer.

This is important to understand to fully realize the scope of the info in the OP. My 2 cents.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane. ...

I have been fully conscious, with full perception - far more than my body could ever give (by exponential factors) completely separated from my body, so I fully disagree that physicality creates consciousness. From everything I have learned and experienced, that statement of yours makes no sense at all. Sorry, My 2 cents

I also recall perceiving before my body was "trained" to use its senses -- rather vividly actually.

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane. ...

I have been fully conscious, with full perception - far more than my body could ever give (by exponential factors) completely separated from my body, so I fully disagree that physicality creates consciousness. From everything I have learned and experienced, that statement of yours makes no sense at all. Sorry, My 2 cents

I also recall perceiving before my body was "trained" to use its senses -- rather vividly actually.

I agree with you my friend.
First of all there is the awareness.
This video post below has important information about proven quantum consciousness.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Consciousness

[Eram]

Posted by naste.de.lumina (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Just another thing I thought I would jot down for consideration...

Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane.

If we think carefully and imagine ourself without any senses from birth...then what would we be able to be conscious of?
This is almost difficult to imagine because we are so filled with information, consciousness, from our senses since birth...and we take it for granted that consciousness came first.

So each sense gives us the ability to be conscious of some objective experience, which then gives us a grounding with which we are able to form our position and attitude in space and time.
These senses also form the basis of our initial emotional and mental consciousness when we see someone with a better looking girl friend or a better looking car etc

So if it was not for our senses interacting with the physical manifestation of things we would be quite void of any consciousness. Our emotional and mental faculties are there to allow attitude and thus quality of interaction with that which we perceive in our physical world...the source of the much discussed ego.

The energy or motion or fire part of this saga is the 'gas in the tank' which drives the entire cosmos and facilitates polarity and thus preference and will or drive in our lives.

So this is...very basically...why esoterics teaches that motion, consciousness and matter (the trinity) are the fundamental aspects of life...without any one of them life cannot exist...and each is dependant and inclusive of the other.

I wrote this in the group section on Hylozoics, and thought it might be useful.

The result of the vibration/energy/motion which causes the manifestation of objects(matter) is consciousness...and objective consciousness is the perception of matter in each density in the cosmos.

So we can now view this axiom from any side and it should be true.

But we first need to just sit back for a while and consider this: Consciousness can only exist if there is perception because if there was no perception then what, or who, is going to know that consciousness exists, if it was not perceivable. So we only know that we are conscious because we perceive things...primarily with our 5 senses in the physical world...and much less, if at all, in the etheric or emotional or higher worlds. When we are asleep most people are unconscious...we only know we were unconscious because of the time lapse...and time is an aspect of the motion aspect of the trinity.

So lets test the axiom...'motion causes matter which causes consciousness'
No motion means no matter and thus no consciousness.
No matter means no motion and thus no consciousness.
No consciousness means no matter and thus no motion.

It is also not just a great big stroke of coincidence that every religious and spiritual group each have their versions of the trinity...

Stay deep in thought...life is amazing
Love
Ray

Dear Friend.
Allow me to disagree about your reasoning.
On the topic below are two videos that demonstrate the energy field (aura and chakra) involving the human body and how the energy of thoughts and feelings exist independently of the body since we can feel them even when our astral body is separated from the physical body .


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post767654
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post767807

Hi naste.de.lumina,

What you are saying doesn't contradict what finefeather says imo.
Esoterics teach that all humans have 5 bodies at their disposal when incarnated:
1 the physical body
2 the etherical body
3 the emotional body
4 the mental body
5 the causal body

The emotional body for instance is used for emotional consciousness and perception.
It has it's own world and reality to it which we often visit semi/consciously when we sleep.

When incarnated, we exist in all five bodies at the same time and we can perceive sensory input from all planes at which those bodies exist.

Since our consciousness is for the larger part focused on the physical world, many people believe that this is all there is.
In reality (according to the esoterics) when we use our intellect to create ideas we enter the mental world and identify with it, when we have an emotional experience, we enter the emotional world and identify with it.

What we call the aura is nothing else then the other four bodies that exist in and around our physical bodies.

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Eram (here)

Posted by naste.de.lumina (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Just another thing I thought I would jot down for consideration...

Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane.

If we think carefully and imagine ourself without any senses from birth...then what would we be able to be conscious of?
This is almost difficult to imagine because we are so filled with information, consciousness, from our senses since birth...and we take it for granted that consciousness came first.

So each sense gives us the ability to be conscious of some objective experience, which then gives us a grounding with which we are able to form our position and attitude in space and time.
These senses also form the basis of our initial emotional and mental consciousness when we see someone with a better looking girl friend or a better looking car etc

So if it was not for our senses interacting with the physical manifestation of things we would be quite void of any consciousness. Our emotional and mental faculties are there to allow attitude and thus quality of interaction with that which we perceive in our physical world...the source of the much discussed ego.

The energy or motion or fire part of this saga is the 'gas in the tank' which drives the entire cosmos and facilitates polarity and thus preference and will or drive in our lives.

So this is...very basically...why esoterics teaches that motion, consciousness and matter (the trinity) are the fundamental aspects of life...without any one of them life cannot exist...and each is dependant and inclusive of the other.

I wrote this in the group section on Hylozoics, and thought it might be useful.

The result of the vibration/energy/motion which causes the manifestation of objects(matter) is consciousness...and objective consciousness is the perception of matter in each density in the cosmos.

So we can now view this axiom from any side and it should be true.

But we first need to just sit back for a while and consider this: Consciousness can only exist if there is perception because if there was no perception then what, or who, is going to know that consciousness exists, if it was not perceivable. So we only know that we are conscious because we perceive things...primarily with our 5 senses in the physical world...and much less, if at all, in the etheric or emotional or higher worlds. When we are asleep most people are unconscious...we only know we were unconscious because of the time lapse...and time is an aspect of the motion aspect of the trinity.

So lets test the axiom...'motion causes matter which causes consciousness'
No motion means no matter and thus no consciousness.
No matter means no motion and thus no consciousness.
No consciousness means no matter and thus no motion.

It is also not just a great big stroke of coincidence that every religious and spiritual group each have their versions of the trinity...

Stay deep in thought...life is amazing
Love
Ray

Dear Friend.
Allow me to disagree about your reasoning.
On the topic below are two videos that demonstrate the energy field (aura and chakra) involving the human body and how the energy of thoughts and feelings exist independently of the body since we can feel them even when our astral body is separated from the physical body .


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post767654
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post767807

Hi naste.de.lumina,

What you are saying doesn't contradict what finefeather says imo.
Esoterics teach that all humans have 5 bodies at their disposal when incarnated:
1 the physical body
2 the etherical body
3 the emotional body
4 the mental body
5 the causal body

The emotional body for instance is used for emotional consciousness and perception.
It has it's own world and reality to it which we often visit semi/consciously when we sleep.

The five senses that we use in the psyhical reality are not the only senses that we have and use, but the only ones that we have and use in the physical world.

When incarnated, we exist in all five bodies at the same time and we can perceive sensory input from all planes at which those bodies exist.

Since our consciousness is for the larger part focused on the physical world, many people believe that this is all there is.
In reality (according to the esoterics) when we use our intellect to create ideas we enter the mental world and identify with it, when we have an emotional experience, we enter the emotional world and identify with it.

What we call the aura is nothing else then the other four bodies that exist in and around our physical bodies.

Hi Eram.

I apologize to my friends.
Sometimes, depending on how the text is written in English, I have difilculdade to understand the overall context.
I appreciate your pertinent reminder.

Thank you.
Naste.

[Eram]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane. ...

I have been fully conscious, with full perception - far more than my body could ever give (by exponential factors) completely separated from my body, so I fully disagree that physicality creates consciousness. From everything I have learned and experienced, that statement of yours makes no sense at all. Sorry, My 2 cents

I also recall perceiving before my body was "trained" to use its senses -- rather vividly actually.

Hi DeDukshyn,

I'm not sure that finefeather meant to write this exactly as he did, but to my understanding (as a beginning student of esoterics) it should state:
We only have physical consciousness because of our ability to percieve stuff... taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 sense on the physical plane.

What you say is totally possible because we also exist on other planes/worlds (see post above) and in those planes/worlds there is also matter (which behaves specifically according to the laws of that plane) which we can perceive with our sense that we use in those planes, to become conscious of.

So your conclusion of finefeathers post that physicality creates consciousness should rather be: matter and motion create consciousness.

When we incarnate (according to esoterics), out of the causal body that never stops existing (as long as we are part of the human kingdom) we create a mental body and out of that, we create the emotional body etc. etc.

When we die, we do it in the opposite direction.
First the physical body dies, then the ethircal body, some time after that (could be decades or under a year depending on different stages of development and other circumstances) the emotional body dissolves, then after again some time, the mental body, until we rest for some time (mostly unconscious/asleep) in the causal body, until it is time for a new incarnation.

An NDE for instance, describes what people live through then the pysical body dies and people find themselves in the etherical body (which is mostly a copy of the physical world). That body usually dissolves rather quickly, so then they enter the emotional world where everything is thought responsive and so the experience whatever they believe in. Many people experience the heaven they believed in all their life and meet up with people they used to know when incarnated in the physical world.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Eram (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Many believe that consciousness creates everything...but to me this is not logical at all.
We are are only conscious because of our ability to perceive stuff...taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 senses...on the physical plane. ...

I have been fully conscious, with full perception - far more than my body could ever give (by exponential factors) completely separated from my body, so I fully disagree that physicality creates consciousness. From everything I have learned and experienced, that statement of yours makes no sense at all. Sorry, My 2 cents

I also recall perceiving before my body was "trained" to use its senses -- rather vividly actually.

Hi DeDukshyn,

I'm not sure that finefeather meant to write this exactly as he did, but to my understanding (as a beginning student of esoterics) it should state:
We only have physical consciousness because of our ability to percieve stuff... taste, touch, sounds, colours, smells...by our 5 sense on the physical plane.

What you say is totally possible because we also exist on other planes/worlds (see post above) and in those planes/worlds there is also matter (which behaves specifically according to the laws of that plane) which we can perceive with our sense that we use in those planes, to become conscious of.

So your conclusion of finefeathers post that physicality creates consciousness should rather be: matter and motion create consciousness.

When we incarnate (according to esoterics), out of the causal body that never stops existing (as long as we are part of the human kingdom) we create a mental body and out of that, we create the emotional body etc. etc.

When we die, we do it in the opposite direction.
First the physical body dies, then the ethircal body, some time after that (could be decades or under a year depending on different stages of development and other circumstances) the emotional body dissolves, then after again some time, the mental body, until we rest for some time (mostly unconscious/asleep) in the causal body, until it is time for a new incarnation.

An NDE for instance, describes what people live through then the pysical body dies and people find themselves in the etherical body (which is mostly a copy of the physical world). That body usually dissolves rather quickly, so then they enter the emotional world where everything is thought responsive and so the experience whatever they believe in. Many people experience the heaven they believed in all their life and meet up with people they used to know when incarnated in the physical world.

I did re-read Finefeather's post afterward and realized in more detail what he was saying. I've been meaning to add some follow-up.

I believe, there is what is learned through the five senses, a "consciousness" of sorts, but I think this is where our definitions of terms may vary. I call this consciousness - the (via physical) ego. (I added the term "physical" to allow for non physical based egos -- although I don't know this exists)

Consider "intelligence". I would say that every human is born with an innate ability for level of "intelligence". I would say that potential for intelligence is indicated within the soul, in each newborn. However that intelligence cannot be expressed unless something is "learned" to allow that expression. Some say the acquirement of knowledge creates a level of intelligence, I say intelligence is always there -- the learning of knowledge allows it to be expressed in this physical plane, but knowledge did not cause the intelligence -- only its ability for expression.

I do recall "perceiving" before my 5 senses where trained (as an infant) so I know I had some type of "consciousness" well before my "ego" consciousness was developed -- through use of my five sense. The way I remember perceiving, was that there was only one sense, but it covered absolutely a vast range of frequencies, that could be perceived in a vast number of ways - patterns that held the totality of, well almost everything, but like a complex fractal, every detail was contained in the whole. It is extremely difficult to explain because I have no direct translation of these experiences into what the physical equivalent might be, since my sense weren't really trained properly at the time, however I do vaguely recall some overlap occurring as specifically my eyes began to interpret what was previously "picture-less" yet still contained all the info.

I didn't think I'd ever get or feel the need to share my experiences before my "senses" -- so this is an opportunity for me to do that. Perhaps there are others that can recall this pre-sense state?