Self-sufficient community living in the UK - Is anyone of you living off-grid or planning to do so in 2014?

[Spirithorse]

There have been a number of threads on the topic of going off-grid and stepping out of the rat race, but as far as I'm aware, none of them was focusing on the UK.

I've been attracted to this kind of living for many years. All of my life I felt a deep yearning to be close to nature and to live a simple life based on true values.

Some years ago I was part of a group of people who wanted to set up a self-sufficient community based on spiritual values. We did find a suitable property in Dorset and worked out a business plan - farm shop, hen keeping, fire wood business, etc. We had a number of therapists, healers and teachers among us so we wanted to combine it with natural health treatments, eco educational seminars, a forest school and many other exciting ideas. It didn't happen in the end due to a lack of funding. The people, who were wholeheartedly committed and enthusiastic (like myself), didn't have the money and the ones who did, got scared in the end and dropped out. Well, and that was the end of it.
Personally, I do believe the future of mankind will be one without money but we're not quite there yet, that's for sure.

Now - in my personal life there are some changes ahead. I will need to move from my current place as my landlord recently put 'my' cottage on the market. At first I felt sad as it's a pretty (and affordable) place that suits my purposes very well, but now I can see it as an opportunity to step towards my dream.

My dream of living on the land, being close to nature and growing my own food. Keeping animals and living with like-minded people who care for the planet and for each other.

I'm looking for people of like minds who I can join forces with. I'm very creative, practical with many skills, reliable and hardworking but I can't do it on my own.

Anybody out there??
At the moment I'm living in the SW of England but not really tied to this area.

[Sean Cullen]

Hi Spirithorse. New member Seán here! From what you describe, it seems like I am developing something similar to your original project here in southern Ireland. I would love to share ideas with you, as it seems that you went into this quite deeply at the time. I sense that, although we are on different islands, that we may be able to help each other somehow! I strongly suspect we are of like mind and share the same dream. I look forward to hearing more about your project, it sounds like it would have been a really viable community based initative. Seán

[Spirithorse]

Hi Sean, and welcome to Avalon!

Thanks for your reply. Well, yes we had some great ideas at the time (2010) and the property we found had a lot of potential - but money was the problem. The purchase of the land and buildings would have been about £ 850.000 - on top of that we would have needed to build further infrastructure. The plan was that the different parties, couples as well as single persons, would have their own cabin in the woodland to allow for privacy. The main farmhouse was meant to house the therapy and seminar rooms as well as being used as an assembly.

With the 2 wealthier parties getting scared and dropping out, there was no way for us to proceed with the project.
You maybe have heard of the Lammas community in Wales, the first of its kind who took on the battle to apply and (eventually get) planning permission prior to moving onto the land.
Here is a trailer of a film that has been made about their journey.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=AKqvHTfApbc

The website: www.livinginthefuture.org has several free video clips up about eco communities. Many of them featuring Lammas at different stages.
I've been to Lammas this summer to attend the Eco village conference and it was amazing. It's unbelievable what these guys have achieved on a piece of depleted farm land.

But please, tell me about your plans in Ireland.

[Billy]

You may be interested in this community. They are looking for help tree planting in Feb 2014. Off the Grid, With Solar, Wind and Hydro. You still have bills. The Community bought the Island over a decade ago when the absentee landlord went bust.

research. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=is...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Info on the working holiday tree planting. http://islandsgoinggreen.org/

Warning. They are my friends and love partying.

I am in the crowd.

[Spirithorse]

Posted by billyji (here)
You may be interested in this community. They are looking for help tree planting in Feb 2014. Off the Grid, With Solar, Wind and Hydro. You still have bills. The Community bought the Island over a decade ago when the absentee landlord went bust.

research. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=is...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Info on the working holiday tree planting. http://islandsgoinggreen.org/

Warning. They are my friends and love partying.

I am in the crowd.

Attachment 24298


Attachment 24299

Thanks Billji,
That sounds a great idea to have your own island but I expect the weather must be pretty rough up there, isn't it? How do they manage to grow their food?
...concerning partying - well and yes, I know the Scots are of very special breed...

I remember having severe difficulties understanding a single word of what they were saying when I was there for a brief visit in 2005.

[Sean Cullen]

Hi Spirithorse, thanks for info & links. No, I hadn't heard previously about the LAMMAS initiative... Very interesting indeed, I will study it some more now.

In regard to my own plans, I have been developing a version for some years now. This is based on the concept of a 'community of communities', where groups of homesteaders or small communes live, work and trade together. Trade is accomplished across communities by a form of bartering, with free exchange of goods and services between contributing families or individuals within a community.

I have already purchased the land (2 acre site) and built on it the first prototype 'homestead' which will become a model, I hope, for others who wish to emulate or join the project. An existing farmhouse was extensively renovated and another house was built as well. I expect that the accommodations will cater for at least 4 families as there is a mobile home on site as well. I have explored the idea of using yurts etc as well.

This prototype has a deep well for water, PV array/battery bank/3KW inverter, solar water heating panels, working HHO (brown's gas) plant, wood burning range and stoves, heat recovery system, orchard with apples, pears & plums, a hen and egg enterprise including incubator, large vegetable growing section using raised beds, access to woodland for foraging etc, is in a reasonably remote location and is on an easily protected site. It also has a sea fishing boat and trailer.

Exports now include hens and eggs, vegetables and fruits as in season, smoked fish, mackerel pate, soda bread and baking, jams and preserves, chutneys and pickles and trailer loads of wood blocks. Construction of a 7m x 18m polytunnel has begun. This tunnel will dramatically extend the growing season and increase the quantity and variety of vegetable and fruit exports. Planned exports include offering workshops on all aspects of 'how-tos' related to the project.

It has been a massive undertaking, and I have done it almost totally alone. It is a working prototype but does need some further development and work to become completeley self-sufficient and also to get completely off the electricity grid. I have had the parts machined to make three wind turbines, each will be VAWT and will generate 200w each. Between the PV panels and the wind generators I expect to have enough power to run the workshop and get fully off-grid.

Sounds great, does'nt it? but I have a problem. My problem is the opposite of the problem that killed your project; I have funded it, and got this far, and I'm a fairly handy, enthusiastic and energetic all-round person, but to get the project finished and polished suitable for showcasing is requiring more work than I can do in any reasonable time, particularly with the ongoing need to be productive and feed myself as well. I now have no funds left, but live in wonderful abundance...

I have a decision to make; do I just carry on and survive in splendid isolation, quite comfortably by myself, or do I follow my dream and look for help to get the project finished as a practical example for others to emulate? All thats needed is labour but I am very wary of allowing people who might turn out to be undesirable into my dream.

Any ideas?

[Billy]

Hi Spirithorse. The weather is the same as anywhere in the UK. Only better and because of the gulf stream warmer. Storms in winter. No flooding like the poor folks suffer from south of the border. Ferries may be cancelled when stormy. I have been stranded a few times, But a great place to be stranded.

Living on an Island is not easy. But worthwhile.



Spring, Summer and Autumn time it is paradise. apart from the midges on certain still days,June - Sept.

Mostly everyone grows their own food in their own gardens, and there is a community garden, Also a community shop and restaurant with fresh produce. A community Centre which also sells home grown food, Festivals, Live music from the best of musicians. Workshops.

As far as the lingo goes, Sometimes i do not understand the Scots
Eigg residents are mixed, Scottish, English, French. with many visitors from around the world.

http://www.isleofeigg.net/visiting_eigg.html



Maybe not your life style, research with the links i provided.

Peace

[learninglight]

Sounds wonderful Sean and welcome to Avalon

I would jump at the chance to help but i'm probably to old, no experience, not as fit as i used to be and no funds

I can appreciate you being wary; maybe you could get anyone who is interested in being a part of your dream to have a CRC ( criminal records check). I'm aware not everyone who gets a less than postive result is as bad as what it may say in the report, and also some people will not want to checked, but it may give you some le-way, just a thought, good luck

sharon

Posted by Sean Cullen (here)
Hi Spirithorse, thanks for info & links. No, I hadn't heard previously about the LAMMAS initiative... Very interesting indeed, I will study it some more now.

In regard to my own plans, I have been developing a version for some years now. This is based on the concept of a 'community of communities', where groups of homesteaders or small communes live, work and trade together. Trade is accomplished across communities by a form of bartering, with free exchange of goods and services between contributing families or individuals within a community.

I have already purchased the land (2 acre site) and built on it the first prototype 'homestead' which will become a model, I hope, for others who wish to emulate or join the project. An existing farmhouse was extensively renovated and another house was built as well. I expect that the accommodations will cater for at least 4 families as there is a mobile home on site as well. I have explored the idea of using yurts etc as well.

This prototype has a deep well for water, PV array/battery bank/3KW inverter, solar water heating panels, working HHO (brown's gas) plant, wood burning range and stoves, heat recovery system, orchard with apples, pears & plums, a hen and egg enterprise including incubator, large vegetable growing section using raised beds, access to woodland for foraging etc, is in a reasonably remote location and is on an easily protected site. It also has a sea fishing boat and trailer.

Exports now include hens and eggs, vegetables and fruits as in season, smoked fish, mackerel pate, soda bread and baking, jams and preserves, chutneys and pickles and trailer loads of wood blocks. Construction of a 7m x 18m polytunnel has begun. This tunnel will dramatically extend the growing season and increase the quantity and variety of vegetable and fruit exports. Planned exports include offering workshops on all aspects of 'how-tos' related to the project.

It has been a massive undertaking, and I have done it almost totally alone. It is a working prototype but does need some further development and work to become completeley self-sufficient and also to get completely off the electricity grid. I have had the parts machined to make three wind turbines, each will be VAWT and will generate 200w each. Between the PV panels and the wind generators I expect to have enough power to run the workshop and get fully off-grid.

Sounds great, does'nt it? but I have a problem. My problem is the opposite of the problem that killed your project; I have funded it, and got this far, and I'm a fairly handy, enthusiastic and energetic all-round person, but to get the project finished and polished suitable for showcasing is requiring more work than I can do in any reasonable time, particularly with the ongoing need to be productive and feed myself as well. I now have no funds left, but live in wonderful abundance...

I have a decision to make; do I just carry on and survive in splendid isolation, quite comfortably by myself, or do I follow my dream and look for help to get the project finished as a practical example for others to emulate? All thats needed is labour but I am very wary of allowing people who might turn out to be undesirable into my dream.

Any ideas?

[Sean Cullen]

Hi learninglight! Thanks!

Yes, I'm very wary of being burnt again... I had a very bad experience with one person I invited in to help build and share in my dream. So I'm being very cautious.

Hey; less of the too old lark! The lack of experience and fitness might be a problem tho ;-(

I feel somehow, sometime, it will all get finished and become a wayshowing beacon for those awakening souls who will be looking for a better way of living. Thanks for the advice!

[Spirithorse]

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate it. I will respond to your posts and ideas tomorrow. It's getting a bit late now.

Thank you x

[Spirithorse]

Posted by Sean Cullen (here)
Hi Spirithorse, thanks for info & links. No, I hadn't heard previously about the LAMMAS initiative... Very interesting indeed, I will study it some more now.

In regard to my own plans, I have been developing a version for some years now. This is based on the concept of a 'community of communities', where groups of homesteaders or small communes live, work and trade together. Trade is accomplished across communities by a form of bartering, with free exchange of goods and services between contributing families or individuals within a community.

I have already purchased the land (2 acre site) and built on it the first prototype 'homestead' which will become a model, I hope, for others who wish to emulate or join the project. An existing farmhouse was extensively renovated and another house was built as well. I expect that the accommodations will cater for at least 4 families as there is a mobile home on site as well. I have explored the idea of using yurts etc as well.

This prototype has a deep well for water, PV array/battery bank/3KW inverter, solar water heating panels, working HHO (brown's gas) plant, wood burning range and stoves, heat recovery system, orchard with apples, pears & plums, a hen and egg enterprise including incubator, large vegetable growing section using raised beds, access to woodland for foraging etc, is in a reasonably remote location and is on an easily protected site. It also has a sea fishing boat and trailer.

Exports now include hens and eggs, vegetables and fruits as in season, smoked fish, mackerel pate, soda bread and baking, jams and preserves, chutneys and pickles and trailer loads of wood blocks. Construction of a 7m x 18m polytunnel has begun. This tunnel will dramatically extend the growing season and increase the quantity and variety of vegetable and fruit exports. Planned exports include offering workshops on all aspects of 'how-tos' related to the project.

It has been a massive undertaking, and I have done it almost totally alone. It is a working prototype but does need some further development and work to become completeley self-sufficient and also to get completely off the electricity grid. I have had the parts machined to make three wind turbines, each will be VAWT and will generate 200w each. Between the PV panels and the wind generators I expect to have enough power to run the workshop and get fully off-grid.

Sounds great, does'nt it? but I have a problem. My problem is the opposite of the problem that killed your project; I have funded it, and got this far, and I'm a fairly handy, enthusiastic and energetic all-round person, but to get the project finished and polished suitable for showcasing is requiring more work than I can do in any reasonable time, particularly with the ongoing need to be productive and feed myself as well. I now have no funds left, but live in wonderful abundance...

I have a decision to make; do I just carry on and survive in splendid isolation, quite comfortably by myself, or do I follow my dream and look for help to get the project finished as a practical example for others to emulate? All thats needed is labour but I am very wary of allowing people who might turn out to be undesirable into my dream.

Any ideas?

Hi Sean,

What you have achieved sounds incredible, how long did it take you to get this far?
The idea of creating a network between communities is great and very much needed, I feel. With the challenging times we are facing it's paramount to have a strong supportive community structure.
There are so many questions I have for you - what's your age, do you have family, are you literally on your own on your plot of land? Did you have to get planning permission or were there existing buildings on site? Do you have the need to construct additional structures?

How do you manage all that, from hens to jams to smoked fish, bread and pate, how on earth are you doing all that?
Do you have people working with you (for you) to produce the goods? Do you still have the need for a job to generate income or is this covered by your produce? You mention barter... not much cash flow in that...
Are you familiar with Mark Boyle's 'The moneyless man' and the 'Moneyless manifesto'? (Mark is also an Irish guy)

You said you're constructing a polytunnel - have you ever thought of building a geodesic dome as a greenhouse? Its unique shape has many thermal benefits and is superior to conventional green house structures. I've got all the construction manuals in my drawer. My ultimate goal is running an aquaponics system in a geodesic greenhouse dome. It's crucial to have a reliable energy source though - if the pumps fail, the fish will die.

Do you have pictures of your plot? Where exactly are you located?
I understand if you don't want to put out personal information in the open, in this case, would you pm me ? (pm = private message).

You said you were interested in the Lammas community in Wales, here is their website: www.lammas.org.uk/

I feel really excited about your project, a pity that you are quite a bit away. But still there might be ways that we can cooperate.

Looking forward to hearing more from you. x

[Becky]

Hi Spirithorse, this is something I dream about, but am not sure my family would be so thrilled! I would be really interested to talk with you about this when we meet up -looking forward to it :-)
Becky

[Spirithorse]

Posted by billyji (here)
Hi Spirithorse. The weather is the same as anywhere in the UK. Only better and because of the gulf stream warmer. Storms in winter. No flooding like the poor folks suffer from south of the border. Ferries may be cancelled when stormy. I have been stranded a few times, But a great place to be stranded.

Living on an Island is not easy. But worthwhile.



Spring, Summer and Autumn time it is paradise. apart from the midges on certain still days,June - Sept.

Mostly everyone grows their own food in their own gardens, and there is a community garden, Also a community shop and restaurant with fresh produce. A community Centre which also sells home grown food, Festivals, Live music from the best of musicians. Workshops.

As far as the lingo goes, Sometimes i do not understand the Scots
Eigg residents are mixed, Scottish, English, French. with many visitors from around the world.

http://www.isleofeigg.net/visiting_eigg.html

Attachment 24300

Maybe not your life style, research with the links i provided.

Peace

Hi Billyji,

It looks beautiful, I have to admit. Are all the inhabitants part of the community or do 'ordinary' people live there as well? How many residents do live there permanently?
The location of this island is about 600 miles and 12 hrs away from my current location and it definitely is beyond my poor old car's travel capability at the moment, means further exploration might have to wait a little.

Thank you for providing me with the links.

[greybeard]

For once I wish I was a bit younger--such an adventure would appeal to me.
I am--where ever I am.
Chris

[Spirithorse]

Posted by Becky (here)
Hi Spirithorse, this is something I dream about, but am not sure my family would be so thrilled! I would be really interested to talk with you about this when we meet up -looking forward to it :-)
Becky

Hi Becky,
Nice to see you here. Yes, it's been more or less a lifelong dream of me to live this way - now getting closer to it finally.

Yes, I'd love to talk to you about all these things when I see you.
x

[Sean Cullen]

Hi Spirithorse,

OK… It has taken a long time to get this far, with the bulk of the work being done over the last four years. The previous five years was mostly about making mistakes, learning, refining ideas and most importantly accumulating the necessary money needed to turn the dream into reality.

I am building up a small network of people (within a radius of 10 miles) who are already leaning towards self-sufficiency themselves and are interested in being involved in different ways. Some barter their labour for produce, some buy produce and some barter with me some of their produce that I do not have, such as cheese in one case, and wine in another. (I live very, very well!) However, as you say, bartering does not improve cash flow, but is sure does take a lot of the pressure off meeting bills as money which otherwise would have been spent buying food and delicacies can now be put to other use!

To answer your questions;

Yes, I am on my own. I did hire in some skills (masons, carpenters etc) in previous years as needed to help with the building works etc. and did much of the work and all the project planning, design and management myself. I did get planning permission for the building works so everything is completely fine there. In anticipation that the dream would be realised someday, I built a second house and extensively renovated the old farmhouse. However, all of the infra-structure is now in place and the building works are finished. Phew!

I don’t have anyone working for me, but have a couple of people who come and chop wood with me for a share of the lumber. I have learned over time how to do all of the other stuff myself; baking, preserving foods, smoking fish etc and do these regularly, but I could be doing these in a bigger way. Now that the knowledge, skills and methods are in place it will be easy matter to ramp up production in the future. There is a thriving farmer’s market within a few miles and a few others around as well so there are ready made outlets for all of the produce.

I hadn’t heard of Mark Boyle before. Thanks, will look him up. In regard to bartering, you might be interested in the thread I started in ‘General Discussion’ yesterday; New spin on bartering: Now we can do business! It explains a concept I have to make bartering more accessible for people.

I have bought the polytunnel as a self build project, and as soon as the weather improves will begin putting it up. I did look at geodesic greenhouses but figured these as too expensive for the overall size that I need.

Its funny that you mention aquaponics – an acquaintance was big into growing tilapia fish in tanks and I considered for a while doing it with him! It certainly is a growth area, however, I figured that the cost of heating the water in our cold winters ruled it out as a project for me. I did’nt consider the thermal characteristics of geodesics in this context).

My ‘plot’ is in a very rural (and very private) location about seven miles from the nearest market town which is near Cork city in southern Ireland. Although the ‘plot’ is inland, it is near enough to the sea to make sea fishing a viable part of the enterprise.

I hope the above answers your question for now!

Questions for you; How big and expensive does a geodesic dome have to be to house a viable aquaponics enterprise?


Seán

[Spirithorse]

Hi Sean,

That's really great what you have achieved and I'm sure there is lots of potential for expansion.

Mark Boyle, as you haven't heard of him, has embarked on an experiment a few years ago to live 1 year without the use of any money. He succeeded and has written a book about his experiences. He grew so found of the idea and the freedom it provided him with that he continued to live this way thereafter. He didn't want the returns from the book sales, so he's using them to buy some land to set up a freeconomy village.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OVB-5Br5pVU

His 2nd book 'Moneyless Manifesto' is available for free on his website.
http://www.moneylessmanifesto.org/bo...es-eisenstein/

Concerning the size for the aquaponics greenhouse, I can't really tell you as I haven't got that far. At my current place I have no possibility to set it up, so it needs to wait until I'm somewhere where I can proceed.

I purchased the instruction manuals to self-build domes some time ago and basically, it's only the material costs you have, 2 x 4s and sheeting, or shrink wrap to cover, plus bits and pieces. Not hugely expensive though.
There are a great number of videos about geodesic domes and aquaponics on youtube, some are good and some not really..

If you're interested in the idea and want to get a good understanding on how it works, go to this guy's youtube channel;

https://youtube.com/user/web4deb?feature=watch

There is a whole series on how he built his dome and system with lots of really helpful tips on rocket mass heaters, sump pumps, valves, grow beds, piping systems, fish tank, strawberry towers.... and on and on. This guy is doing it on a very grand and professional level and his tips are really useful.
Here one of the construction videos

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gLIhOglrbmI

If you have some spare time - it's well worth it.

[Sean Cullen]

Posted by Spirithorse (here)

Mark Boyle, as you haven't heard of him, has embarked on an experiment a few years ago to live 1 year without the use of any money. He succeeded and has written a book about his experiences. He grew so found of the idea and the freedom it provided him with that he continued to live this way thereafter. He didn't want the returns from the book sales, so he's using them to buy some land to set up a freeconomy village.

...

There is a whole series on how he built his dome and system with lots of really helpful tips on rocket mass heaters, sump pumps, valves, grow beds, piping systems, fish tank, strawberry towers.... and on and on. This guy is doing it on a very grand and professional level and his tips are really useful.
Here one of the construction videos

If you have some spare time - it's well worth it.

Hi Spirithorse,

Thanks for all info & links, I really appreciate it!

I hope that you will find the space somewhere to live your dream. The law of attraction is always at work - so trust in that, and know that you are always exactly where you need to be...!

Seán

[Becky]

Eigg looks like a stunningly beautiful place to live, Billyji!

[Sean Cullen]

Hi Spirithorse,

I've looked at the LAMMAS initiative in some more detail. It has some great ideas that I would hope to incorporate into my own project.

In regard to your own situation, any develpments there?

Seán