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Thread: Time Travel and Predetermination

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Alien Ramone (here)
    IF:
    All times exist at once with all time branches existing at once and being the result of travel to different points in time.

    THEN:
    Isn't the universe just a more complicated version of the "mechanical universe" with everything already predetermined in the sense that all outcomes already exist?
    Yes. All that can exists, already exists. In a sense, you can say all events that can exist, do exist, and therefore everything is pre-determinined.

    Think of it like a vast, endless sea. It's all there. As conscious beings, we navigate the sea and move through it.
    guided by our free will and choice

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    "Using Chaos Theory to Predict and Prevent Catastrophic ‘Dragon King’ Events" http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...-dragon-kings/
    +
    "Minority Rules: Scientists Discover Tipping Point for the Spread of Ideas" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0725190044.htm
    regarding chaos theory and timelines

    "Imagine The Movie Theater of The Future: All The World's A Screen" http://www.indiewire.com/article/ima...AHIBE.facebook regarding ...
    "The border between reality and fiction will fade and some people will live most of their lives in a profoundly manipulated world. People's thoughts, experiences and behavior will lie in the hands of those in charge of the software. Marketing and politics are likely to pollute the system, but laws of enhanced reality voted on by the majority via the internet will come to the rescue. Humans will face challenging questions of identity. As always, there will be renegades who will try to stay "unplugged." However, the disadvantages of opting out will overcome most."

    I feel this is the best way I can say some of what I feel is my theory.
    I am leaving room for everyone's choice and free will to find what feels right for them.

    Love and respect!

    I awake to find no peace of mind.
    I said how do you live
    As a fugitive?
    Down here, where I cannot see so clear
    I said what do I know?
    Show me the right way to go.

    And the spies came out of the water,
    But you're feeling so bad 'coz you know
    And the spies hide out in every corner.
    But you can't touch them no,
    'Coz they're all spies.

    They're all spies.

    I awake to see that no one is free.
    We're all fugitives - look at the way we live
    Down here, I cannot sleep from fear. no
    I said which way do I turn?
    Oh I forget everything I learn.

    And the spies came out of the water.
    But you're feeling so bad 'coz you know
    And the spies hide out in every corner.
    But you can't touch them no,
    'Coz they're all spies.

    They're all spies.

    And if we don't hide here,
    They're gonna find us.
    And if we don't hide now,
    They're gonna catch us when we sleep.
    And if we don't hide here,
    They're gonna find us.

    And the spies came out of the water.
    But you're feeling so good.coz you know
    that though spies hide out in every corner.
    they can't touch you, no.
    'Coz they're just spies.

    They're just spies,
    They're just spies,
    They're just spies,
    They're just spies,
    They're just spies

    http://youtu.be/ivkcAH8_6KE
    Last edited by chocolate; 16th January 2014 at 16:15.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    Quote Posted by Alien Ramone (here)
    IF:
    All times exist at once with all time branches existing at once and being the result of travel to different points in time.

    THEN:
    Isn't the universe just a more complicated version of the "mechanical universe" with everything already predetermined in the sense that all outcomes already exist?
    Can you please define:
    Time
    Universe
    Exist

    Once you manage to do that for me I will give you my answer.

    Not trying to be funny.
    Important thread though, thank you.
    By "Time" I'm meaning all the moments. When I just typed B that was one point in time, and when I typed the y that was another point in time

    "Universe" refers to all the galaxies and everything in between, and in this particular case since I am referring to all the outcomes it would also include the multi-verse, which would be all the "Universes".

    By "Exist" I am talking about the points in time being there to possibly be visited.
    ..............

    There are other possible factors that I haven't really gotten into or given much thought as to how they tie in such as the astral plane, if that exists, parts of the multi-verse that may be completely unrelated to ours and our parallel versions, and beings that are way beyond us in their relation to time.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    Quote Posted by Craig (here)
    In regards to Donk's post quoting from the blog, am I correct to think that it boils down to being like a movie? Where we are just going along without the ability to fast forward to see what happens? I think I can understand the being in of the now instant but having it predetermined and just waiting for that part to catch up and pass by doesn't make much sense.If everything exists at once is it our 3D brains that limit what we can see at any one time? And where do multi or higher dimensions fit in?

    Also if actions we create form new pathways or timelines amongst the infinite that already exist, if I in simple terms go left instead of right does that mean the whole world also turns left on this new path? If some turned right would they filter out of my viewpoint? If so would we all have memories of people fluttering through in and out of our lives and wondering what happened to them when inevitably we make a different decision?

    I love topics such as this, but as I age they quickly render my rational thinking to mush. The complex ideals no longer make any sense to me which is a shame.
    I got that feeling it from it too, Craig, and don't particularly agree with the direction he takes it. I like the idea it is predetermined in the sense that everything leading up to present made the moment what it is....the trick to me is how complex (or perhaps simple, just hard to grasp) it is that free will somhow fits it in to it.

    I particularly don't believe in time travel like lots of folks here seem, in the sense of a being somehow literally transporting back in time. Maybe being able to peer in the past, but if there are time travelers going back and somehow effecting it, then it would be transparent to us...so if it was happening (at some point people discover the ability to do it) then I think it would be constant, there would be no noticeable effect to us, the changes they made happened so whatever was originally never did…

    I dunno, I don’t think it’s a problem with your mind—I think it’s the idea of time travel that doesn’t make much sense. And in a linear-time-based existence, it is hard to reconcile true free will into the mix.
    Yes, Even with the multi-verse that would allow for time travel, because there would be time branches that didn't disturb other timelines, it brings up the question of free will; If there is a Universe for every possible decision that is allowed by quantum mechanics for every possible moment, have you really made your choices because of free will?

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by dsldog (here)
    Quote Posted by Alien Ramone (here)
    Quote Posted by dsldog (here)
    naste.de.lumina,

    "The Wheeler–Feynman absorber theory (also called the Wheeler–Feynman time-symmetric theory) is an interpretation of electrodynamics derived from the assumption that the solutions of the electromagnetic field equations must be invariant under time-reversal symmetry, as are the field equations themselves. Indeed, there is no apparent reason for the time-reversal symmetry breaking which singles out a preferential time direction and thus makes a distinction between past and future. A time-reversal invariant theory is more logical and elegant."

    >> I'll try and fill it in a little later. There was this guy, Maxwell, who formalized
    the theory of electromagnetism in such a way that the interactions were characterized by both and advance or forward wave and a retarded or reversed
    one. Turns out the best way to understand the interaction is that the waves
    travel forwards and backwards in time. Feynman, who thought it up was never
    quite comfortable with the idea. Wonder why? <<
    Thanks. I've listened to Feyman's CD set of lectures on physics and learned about Maxwell's equations on "The Mechanical Universe" DVD set, but I don't remember hearing about the time-symmetric theories. With these kinds of answers I'm picking up bits and pieces of information and clues that I didn't know about before.
    You may also want to research the work of Hugh Everett (Many Wolds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics). If you are not already familiar. He was pretty much ignored when his work was published. These days he is embraced by the likes of Tegmark and such. --jc
    I hadn't heard of him, but I see there are a lot of videos about Hugh Everett. I'm watching a video featuring Mark Everett searching out information about his father, Hugh Everett, and along the way many of the important experiments related to quantum mechanics are being explained to him by physicists who worked with his father. At the part I'm at now (30:09 into the video), the narrator says "Hugh introduced the notion of splitting. Splitting occurs every time a quantum event happens, and this is how parallel universes are created." This idea gives a solution the paradox of Schrodingers cat, since it allows the cat to be both alive and dead at the same time. The question this brings to my mind has to do with what is considered a quantum event. In the example given, the quantum event is the decay of a radioactive particle. Is a photon going through a polarized filter a quantum event? Is a photon hitting any material a quantum event? This is one of those bits and pieces of information I was talking about. I'm wondering what all the quantum events are that would represent another parallel universe? I will continue on watching. Here is a link to the video:

    http://vimeo.com/58603054

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I will expand a bit more. Feel free to disagree, I am only trying.

    Imagine you are curious what it feels like to fly a plane. You don't know how to be a pilot, but you want to 'feel' what it would be like to be able to. Imagine there is a computer game that can help you simulate the feeling. I personally don't play computer games, but I have 'felt' the feeling of playing one of them.

    Since you live in this reality it will be probably a bit of a stretch to imagine this reality as a complex 3D scene in which all objects are determined by their shapes, textures, other things that we here accept as solid reality, but can be considered mere illusion on the level where they have been created, and imagine the space of the 3D game determined by 3 co-ordinates ( x, y, z) and their movement from one moment to another described as 'time'.

    Now, imagine having a technology that would allow you to do all of that, but in many levels more advanced than what you can imagine possible now. And than, imagine you, in many levels more advance than you are now, feeling the need to experience a trajectory of events and choices, because you have the need to learn something or see the outcome of possible choice that you have to make on some level. From the perspective of you on that above level 'time' on this level exists simply to enable you to experience the 'game' as events, choices and consequences.

    Imagine also that your 'mind' on that same higher level can accommodate simultaneous experiences of you playing the game as different persons at different 'game time'. You as a cave man, you as a ... computer scientist in 21st century and you as a person living in 14th century. Just imagine that mind capable of experience all at the same time and being able learn from it. Now substitute one of the players with you currently reading my text, and that person over there above as your higher self, or your God, or in any other way you choose to call him.

    Do you think that's possible? At the moment, currently we are advancing as technology and understanding in the direction of creating an AI and a human robot that will be able to accommodate that AI. We are approaching a moment when we will close the loop. And will start the game on another level.

    Do you think from the perspective of that person above time as you understand it on Earth here matters much, or is it necessary for the learning experience during participating in the game?

    Our bodies are able to accommodate our consciousness in order for us to function on this level. We have been designed (not saying who designed us, just using the word for lack of a better one) as perfect as we can be for the current stage of the game. We think of the solidity of the world as something to swear by, like a proof of anything, while it just can be described as a complex way of interaction while in the game. We send information and we receive information. The fact that our current stage of science cannot put everything I have written here, in flesh and blood, doesn't mean that it hasn't been done on a level much higher than the one we are standing right now reading our posts.

    God reinvents God constantly, and each time the spiral goes a level above.

    Multiply that scene and see where the road leads you.

    Time here is not what we think it is, and for the buddhists among us, some know that the reincarnation (or the joining point in the game) can happen now, in the future and in the past, simultaneously and in any order possible. In other words, for the person above joining the game our time here means nothing, what matters is 'playing'.

    As I said, I could be totally wrong.

    When I asked you to define those terms, I was just trying to say that from our level of life right here what we are trying to understand is a bit difficult. Not impossible, just slightly a matter of leap of faith.

    I am using wording that can only slightly touch on the complexity of the situation. I am sure everything is much more layered and complex than I made it sound.
    I am also not a physicist, mathematician or man for that matter. What I am using as expression is something that is natural to me. I do drawings (architectural) on a computer mostly, and I am probably seeing the world from my limited human perspective. And also, I am a bit odd and using words is not my medium of choice, but I am trying.

    I forgot to add my final words:
    For each 'game time' / lifetime, you are free to choose from the perspective of the one acting into the game. So your life path is a unique one and not predetermined in that sense.
    From the perspective of what is your true self (the above one) time here is of no importance, which makes time travel possible and predetermination (as part of the game structure) necessary.

    It is a reality into a reality into a reality in and out at once. I struggle when I try to understand this with my logical mind, but find it much easier to simply 'feel' it.
    Last edited by chocolate; 16th January 2014 at 19:21.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I sometimes avoid this way of explaining the world, because it always comes out as a simplification, rather than the complex experience it is, and also, because I think on one level I might not be allowed to speak about it so openly - it takes out the 'free will' part for everyone else to come to their own conclusions.
    At the same time that is a subject that is the base of everything when you think of it.

    From the perspective I have tried to outline, I can find a place for all sort of mythological and philosophical explanations, ideas and concept that otherwise one only can accept to be true. In this line of thought you can understand God, Life (from our perspective here), karma, soul-mates, twin-flames, fate, choice, even the 'golden mean ratio' as it appears everywhere, and so on. You can understand the idea of 'maya' in buddhism, their concept of the 'avatar' and much more.

    When it comes to the time-lines as we are used to discuss on the forum right now, concerned about the future of life here, and our current one, it all boils down to the collective accumulation of personal choice of all humans here now, their choices, hopes and decisions. That is why those who are aware, in many ways much more than most of us are, try to swing us in their own direction by religion, mass-media-control, luring our minds to try and think about 'apocalyptic scenarios', because they know that before solid matter (as understood here) comes 'the though', that substance that we send above and which the mind above translate as our current need that will later manifest if it receives enough 'weight'. Their part is to play the bad guys in our games so that we can distinguish right from wrong and what we really want opposed to what we don't want. They can also be viewed as intruders coming from another game on another level trying to usurp the space our game inhabits.

    I think I abused your thread a bit, so I will stop at this point and leave some room for others to argue with me, or just share their own opinion.
    One of the reasons I posted the songs was because there is a lot of indirect ideas/truths in disguise there that are easier transmitted through the music than my choice of words.

    You will notice I will not have many followers after my words. Honestly speaking, after I realized where my ideas were leading, I slipped into quite a depression, because the realization of all that is counterproductive for the game. It is like the two opposite sides of a straight wall that shouldn't be bent to ever meet. But I am not the only one who has bent the wall. It happens all the time, and it has happened in our past probably even more than it happens today simply because today we are too stuck to the material side of our understanding which is the most illusory of all.

    I hope to a degree that my theory is wrong.
    Last edited by chocolate; 16th January 2014 at 20:06.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I have a sense for what you're saying, but may not be picking up on all the specifics. It adds up to me that reality is not solid, but is more of a set of rules similar to a computer program. It's much easier to accept so many possible universes when they don't involve the creation of a universe's worth of solid matter every time they are formed. Loosely the possibility of an overall consciousness encompassing everything to experience everything sort of adds up to me, but considering all the pain that is out there for just about all living sentient beings, I would have to think that the over all consciousness doesn't feel it in the same way, if it has any power to stop it. In your comment about artificial intelligence, I'm not sure if you are talking about the over all consciousness experiencing that or if you are you referring to something else.

    You asked, "Do you think from the perspective of that person above time as you understand it on Earth here matters much, or is it necessary for the learning experience during participating in the game?"
    On a personal level I've seen that learning experiences definitely are necessary to progress certain directions. As a side note that sort of ties in with my thought that possibilities within the structure of the brain may be somewhat limited such that everything that we consider possible may not exist in a multi-verse, but everything that is possible for every combination of quantum events in the the brain and 3-D world may exist.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    What we call pain is a result of choice that leads to 'pain' being something not desirable. Pain shows what to avoid in order to move constructively forward. If we were conscious of where our actions are leading on a global level, we would have stopped some time ago, and would have changed the direction. Unfortunately this stage of the game requires more accumulation of pain before we register it as pain. We have been misguided and desensitized for quite some time.

    Time exists only while you are in the game, meaning while you live the lives of the computer simulation.
    That is one explanation why there is no death as we are used to think. Death is just exiting the game. You true self/soul/consciousness (modern expressions i am using because we are used to them right now) withdraws from the game in preparation for something else, or for another game experience.
    Last edited by chocolate; 16th January 2014 at 20:12.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by Alien Ramone (here)
    IF:
    All times exist at once with all time branches existing at once and being the result of travel to different points in time.

    THEN:
    Isn't the universe just a more complicated version of the "mechanical universe" with everything already predetermined in the sense that all outcomes already exist?

    Ramone, I've been banging my head against the desk for 24 hours now over this, trying to figure out why it is it doesn't compute for me.

    I think I know why. It presupposes that the branches move back in time as well as forward in time from the same timeline, or the same point we occupy in space time.

    (I may be talking out of my ass in a minute here lol)

    I'm visualizing the exact point we exist in, 4 dimensionally, as a single point on a line. Namely, a 2-d line. I inject the third dimension, and suddenly I have multiple possibilities that open up, 360 degrees of them right?

    But does that change the point in which I exist? And is what is behind and what is ahead critical to understanding the point in which I exist?

    Is the universe, then, just another single point in which I am a part?

    Are human beings created to be reverse time travelers, or are we meant to continue moving forward? Ugh.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by Milneman (here)
    Quote Posted by Alien Ramone (here)
    IF:
    All times exist at once with all time branches existing at once and being the result of travel to different points in time.

    THEN:
    Isn't the universe just a more complicated version of the "mechanical universe" with everything already predetermined in the sense that all outcomes already exist?

    Ramone, I've been banging my head against the desk for 24 hours now over this, trying to figure out why it is it doesn't compute for me.

    I think I know why. It presupposes that the branches move back in time as well as forward in time from the same timeline, or the same point we occupy in space time.

    (I may be talking out of my ass in a minute here lol)

    I'm visualizing the exact point we exist in, 4 dimensionally, as a single point on a line. Namely, a 2-d line. I inject the third dimension, and suddenly I have multiple possibilities that open up, 360 degrees of them right?

    But does that change the point in which I exist? And is what is behind and what is ahead critical to understanding the point in which I exist?

    Is the universe, then, just another single point in which I am a part?

    Are human beings created to be reverse time travelers, or are we meant to continue moving forward? Ugh.
    I don't know the answers, but if we simplify it by ignoring all the possibilities and just look at how branches might or might not be affected by time travel to the past or future, here is how I picture it. Traveling to a point in the past would create a new time branch at that point thus not disturbing the existing timeline that led to the point that the time travel was initiated from. The first time traveling event to the future wouldn't have to create a new branch, because the time traveler would show up at some future point in time and the timeline would continue from there. Lets imagine that the second time traveling event goes to the future, but not as far into the future as the first one. That wouldn't require a new branch, because the timeline would just continue from there and would be part of the history that the first time traveler could learn about at the time that they arrived at.

    If the first time traveler to the future went back to the point just before that traveler headed out for the future there would be a new time branch with two versions of the same person and a new branch would continue from there. They could go into the future on that time branch and just be a part of it without creating another branch where they arrived.

    To sum it up, without further information or thought experiments that show otherwise, I picture time travel to the past creating new time branches, but time travel to the future just being a continuation of the line or branch that it started on. Now if you start including the possibility of time branches being created by choices related time travel then you could get a timeline without a specific travel event to the future and a branch with one. Then if you have a branch for every different possible combination of quantum events that could occur, it becomes mind boggling how many different branches you could have. Then to take that idea even further, it seems to me that there wouldn't be a "master timeline", so a traveler to the future would end up at the same time point in all the different possible timelines that were created by quantum events that sprung after that point. That's the way it seems that it would logically work out based on parameters that I'm talking about.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I watched Donnie Darko last night, and now this? lol!

    Great thread, btw.

    Donnie Darko in the film asks his Catholic science teacher to explain whether having a psychic experience negates or reinforces predestination as a concept.
    Donnie asks, can't the observer travel within God's channel?

    To which his teacher says, I can't continue this conversation.
    I could lose my job.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    There was one explanation of how time can be understood in Fringe which I really liked.
    One of the scientists was holding a plastic tube, as if a vial, but with no closed bottom- it had an open top and an open bottom. He than explained that we are used to think of time as if you are pouring water at the top and it continues straight down through the open bottom. But for the Observers (12 scientists, by the way, coming from the 'future'), they see time as if the water is trapped top and bottom into the vial. When you place the vial horizontally you see in front of your eyes all the water(time) in the vial at once. That is how those Observers understand our 'time'.

    To understand all of what I was trying to explain earlier, one needs to become the Observer, sitting outside of the picture and simply watching.
    Some people do that by meditation, others by running, some by reciting mantras.
    Yesterday I was reading a book by Ram Dass, one of his most popular but can't think of the name, I just opened it on my kindle and kept reading from where I had left two weeks ago. Didn't even know what exactly I was reading. In it he was describing how in one of his lectures he met an old woman who had been participating in his class nodding at everything he had said with everyone else. Once asked what does she do to see everything the way he had described it to be, her answer had been 'I crochet'. This one made me smile out loud (I know to crochet, and am quite familiar with the rhythm of it) while at the crowded metro car. I just couldn't help it, it was the best moment of my day.
    Ram Dass stated one universal constant characteristic: wisdom comes to everyone in every way possible, and familiar, if allowed to do that.

    For me time travel happens outside what you call time, and doesn't create necessarily branches. But one thing needs to be remembered, once a possibility from the future is 'seen' that changes the time line for the observer.

    We are all able to draw our pictures with the tools that we usually use. Mine one can be computer generated, can be a watercolor, and it is no better, or worse, than a scientific explanation, it is just from a different perspective. I have noticed that it needs to be as simple and descriptive as you can manage, because too much added detail distracts from the main focal point. (Science sometimes tends to do that for me, although I needed a lot of accumulated science facts and understanding to reach a level from which things seem simple while at the same time are complex).

    As justoneman said (wrote) yesterday in his thread, God was waiting for me to discover him behind the door. So what I discovered doesn't need to be valid for everyone, and even for me with my constant changing perception and understanding.
    Last edited by chocolate; 17th January 2014 at 00:44.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    "The question this brings to my mind has to do with what is considered a quantum event. In the example given, the quantum event is the decay of a radioactive particle. Is a photon going through a polarized filter a quantum event? Is a photon hitting any material a quantum event? This is one of those bits and pieces of information I was talking about. I'm wondering what all the quantum events are that would represent another parallel universe? I will continue on watching. Here is a link to the video:"

    @Alien, your comment regards where the splitting actually happens, as you said "what actually _is_ a quantum event" has been leveled against Many Worlds before, and I think it's valid. That, and of course if the worlds are disjoint it cant be falsified. But what if Everett is wrong what if you can move between them? The stuff of science fiction to be sure. But that's what makes the discussion fun.

    Someone here mentioned they did not believe in time travel. Sorry dont recall where in the thread. I would point out that relativity has been proven correct in this regard. Time dilation happens! Plays heck with the GPS (Global Positioning System) and must be accounted for. Going back in time? It's not excluded. But never been demonstrated in the real sense. Myself, I dont think I can get yer butt through the wormhole so to speak. But how bout a photon? Maybe? Perhaps it's been done? There are compelling reasons in the financial business to be able to peek even miliseconds into the future.

    Glad to be able to participate in the conversation. --jc

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Hey DSLDOG ! WELCOME ON BOARD. Your post sounds great but I do not get clearly the concepts like " time-reversal symmetry...... If you can explain in more simple words I'll appreciate ! thanks YETTI

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Hey ! Alien Ramone , if you want very good info about this ,get the books of Dolores Cannon
    "Convolute Universe " Series , there are many of first hand explanations of the phenomena , let me know!! chaoo Yetti

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by Alien Ramone (here)

    I'm not certain at all, but am sort of fishing for clarifications and ideas related to the subject. When people bring up this idea, often it's unclear if they are saying that all the possibilities actually exist in other universes or that the possibilities are there to be chosen. sometimes it seems like they are implying that it is both ways, which doesn't make sense to me.
    The question to ponder -- to clarify your inquiry here -- is to consider, precisely, what does it mean to exist?

    I would submit all the possibilities do exist, but as energy, and are only manifest as you choose. The energy (which some describe as "possibilities") may not be physically manifest in other universes, but that doesn't mean those other universes don't exist. It only means they don't necessarily exist as physical manifestations. They exist as energy until an observer(s) manifests them. This dynamic has been worked out mathematically and is described by the collapse the wave function.

    This explanation may not satisfy your need not to have it both ways, but that is precisely what our reality field is; it is both energy and matter.
    Last edited by T Smith; 17th January 2014 at 05:24.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)

    The question to ponder -- to clarify your inquiry here -- is to consider, precisely, what does it mean to exist?
    The energy (which some describe as "possibilities") may not be physically manifest in other universes, but that doesn't mean those other universes don't exist. It only means they don't necessarily exist as physical manifestations. They exist as energy until an observer(s) manifests them. This dynamic has been worked out mathematically and is described by the collapse the wave function.
    Which in turn brings up in my mind the idea of the Observer of the game having his moment of observing a specific situation in the game- activating that portion of the game that involves him.
    Here also comes to mind Dolores Cannon, mentioned earlier, with her idea of the backdrop people. There is a video on that posted on the forum some few days back.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    My father is an engineer, automatics and that sort of machinery, together with electricity from his technical school. He seems to have some more science knowledge about electricity and physics than me.
    He told me some time ago that the first words of the teacher when starting the class on electricity has been -
    "it exists, but we still don't know exactly what it is. We can measure it, describe it, but the exact explanation is not given."
    I am talking about 30 years before today, I am sure right now there already are explanations of what electricity is. But just imagine how much we observe and know exists for a fact, but have to accept the idea that we still cannot explain it completely.
    I am still struggling trying to explain to him what I think this worlds is, and he is in between doubt and uncertainty. His literal words were actually a bit said because of what his life had been so far, while I see only enormous amount of freedom and possibility in my own concept.

    Yesterday I had the following words (synchronistically) on my Facebook news feed:
    "When you know how to listen everybody is the guru." Ram Dass

    Don't get me wrong, there is truth in science, but as I see it science is an attempt to explain things, just one of them, which can be done in many other ways, starting with the simple truth
    "as below so above" (I know Bill is going to like this if he ever peeks in this part of the forum)
    We seem to limit our window of observation too much into the world of either science, religion, mythology, and so on depending on the specifics of the observer.

    Nikola Tesla in his late years has become more a man of the spiritual world than of the physical science.
    Same with Carl Jung regarding the specifics of the mind and the complexity of its condition (-ing I could add).

    I suspect they have all understood that not all explanations are straight forward.
    Last edited by chocolate; 17th January 2014 at 10:11.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Alien Ramone, you might like few books to read:
    http://www.amazon.com/Montauk-Projec...ywords=montauk
    http://www.amazon.com/Synchronicity-...951118&sr=1-15

    Those two deal with time travel. They are not straight forward science and the author is not very popular, but you may enjoy them non-the-less. Sorry I can't borrow them, having kindle makes this a bit of a problem. But I am sure you can find a way if you are interested.

    I remember one of the first threads that grabbed my attention when I joined the forum was about Al Bielec and Time Travel. Here is the link to that thread:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post647376
    + something to consider:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post687983 (one of Bill's threads, also relevant to this subject I think)

    Quote Posted by jounai (here)
    Many times the experience of life in a physical reality like here on Earth is called "The game of the infinite" or "The play of God". This is very much true since everything that happens everywhere is within God and has its place within the grand play of life.
    [...]
    So, how does all this relate to the topic of the thread? [...]
    Well, God is that which is invisible, that which is aware of the experience going on here. The invisible awareness that is just aware of when we are suffering, crying, laughing, loving, sleeping, dreaming etc. We cannot see the invisible because we are looking from the position of the invisible. And just like you have to look in a mirror to see your own eyes; God has to create this kind of experience to gain a greater appreciation of what God itself is.
    And you may also like to think about Plato's Allegory of the Cave:


    I see all of the above connected to what you are trying to figure out for yourself.
    Last edited by chocolate; 17th January 2014 at 10:06.

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