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Thread: Time Travel and Predetermination

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Craig, sorry to hear the allegory made you sad. It is not my story, I found it few months ago, but it was so profoundly close to the way I saw the world, that had to share it here.

    I see it allegorically as the light of a candle in a dark room.

    A solution to the sphere time line viz I suggest this read:
    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...-dragon-kings/
    I posted it for a reason.

    Imagine the world through the eyes of every living person right now. We all create a sphere or a 3d Image of what we can observe.
    Now, I am here in my room in front of a computer screen, and don't see you physically, but I imagine you being somewhere as a concept, thus you also exist in my world. Together with Alien Ramone, Donk, Bill, Limor, and every person I happened to know a bit on the forum. Some I see as images (based on their avatars), some I see as the images I have created based on their posts and what I think of them. They also have 'me' in their 3D imaginative reality as an image of what they know about me.
    This way we share a common reality, even though it is just a 'thought' reality.

    Now imagine the whole world of people walking in line, looking in the same direction at the same time- all their spherical images of what they see in front of them overlaps to a great extend- they share the world in that direction. Now substitute 'direction' with 'peace', 'respect', 'love', non duality, non violence etc. That is what the 'time line' of all those looking at all these at the same time will become.



    But if most of the same people instead of looking forward in that one direction, were looking in every other possible direction, their scopes of observation will overlap less and less, and they will share less and less of that other reality I was describing. The timeline that will determine the general direction of movement will belong to the majority of people who's spheres of reality overlap.

    That is simply how I understand timelines and the nature of our world. That is how I also understand the backdrop people Dolores Cannon speaks about. The moment you accept someone in your 3d world in your mind, that person becomes real to you.

    Although sometimes the branches for everyone might seem to be different based on their different situation and choices, there are general branches that lead in several general directions, and if all the singular personal branches point eventually at one of those general directions, they will create one reality, one timeline, eventually.

    To look at the concepts here you need to take yourself out of what you understand the world is as a 'matter of fact' right now. Our individual deaths, as long as they don't exists in your personal reality could be considered as the backdrop people of D.C., but since every person can be traced to another person, the world becomes a complex reality and the backdrop people for you are real for me and vise-versa. That is the whole concept of the vast see of existence, where we swim in one direction or another.

    My father when he decides to be rude with me speaks about the toilet. When I say how everything is eternal, and how souls and values determine our world, he either says something like:
    'Hm, eternal, I have seen such and such person dead and his body berried and ...", or some other physical example of the sort (the toilet that we all visit every day).
    I understand he is correct based on his perspective, but I like to compare things that are comparable, like soul and imagination, mind and existence, bread and butter, and so on.
    Don't try to describe something from one reality with the tools of another, in other words.

    We, I , God, we are full of compassion and there is only beauty in this world, if we decide to see it this way. Our choice of our reality.

    I was going home one day after long 12 hours dealing with partially insane people with the complex of inferiority. It was so tiresome that I was drained. The evening was falling, it was dusk, a bit chilly, I was seeing everything in the shades of grey (not re. to the book ). And than I saw a cluster of yellow flowers, cheerful and looking at me. And the evening became full of yellow whispers and tenderness. It was the same evening, and it was the same person, just he was observing the world now differently.
    Don't misunderstand me, I do know there is darkness, violence and terror from first hand experiences, but I choose to keep my eyes on the ball at the end of the game, because not all accidental hits on the ball matter at the end.



    Sorry for another run of words.
    I know now this is more of a scientist's thread, but for me science and philosophy are one and the same, they just use different symbols.

    Donk. I agree that it seems we are stuck in, but we actually always move in some direction. Just the farther away you are the less visible is that movement. Some manage to do giant steps though, based on the inertia they have gathered from before (from the accumulation of ... ) It all depends on the POV you are looking at everything.

    Agape posted a link to the full length of 'A Beautiful Mind' on another thread, and I think we might really enjoy watching the film once more.
    It came with an explanation. I will go find the thread and reference it here.
    The vid:


    Link to the post I mentioned:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post786629
    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    John Forbes Nash, Jr. (born June 13, 1928) is an American mathematician whose works in game theory, differential geometry, and partial differential equations have provided insight into the forces that govern chance and events inside complex systems in daily life. His theories are used in market economics, computing, evolutionary biology, artificial intelligence, accounting, politics and military theory. Serving as a Senior Research Mathematician at Princeton University during the latter part of his life, he shared the 1994 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences with game theorists Reinhard Selten and John Harsanyi.
    Nash is the subject of the 2001 Hollywood movie A Beautiful Mind. The film, loosely based on the biography of the same name, focuses on Nash's mathematical genius and also his schizophrenia
    Story more complicated than a fiction ...
    PS of a looong post:
    It all used to boggle my mind while I was stuck in a plane of thinking. I used to watch a lot of books with images when I was little, those were the golden days of my life, with as many films of all kinds I could get to watch. But the moment someone put me in a room with notebooks to try to remember facts I did not care about, they totally lost me. I was excellent at all the matters, even in the sports school, but I also always felt somehow partially lost, until I had enough energy and desire to say,
    "Stop right there because I am getting off your train: job/University/understanding of family/marriage/religion/etc."
    Once I went above and saw everything visually, it all made sense.

    I still love geometry and mathematics, though.
    And my dad says I am an anarchist .
    Last edited by chocolate; 20th January 2014 at 20:28.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    And, choc! back to topic!

    Article: What Is Cosmic Consciousness? The Quest for Hidden Reality
    http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/chopra...265.php#page-2
    "On a separate track, or so it seems, quantum physics has altered the universe in radical ways. Solid matter has been reduced to invisible waves existing in a field of mathematical probabilities. Time and space form a background in which relativistic quantum fields float, completely different from the reliable time ticked off by clocks, and the space enclosed inside rooms where solid objects find a place. Yet as with the higher dimensions aspired to by religion, quantum space remains hidden from the five senses. For the vast majority of physicists, quantum reality is about intricate mathematical constructs and experiments that validate them using billion-dollar particle accelerators.

    Standing back a little, the resulting picture is quite startling. The two most important ways of explaining creation, science and spirituality, both depend on a hidden dimension. Without this dimension there would be no human existence. Shouldn’t that knowledge revolutionize our lives, here and now? Somehow it doesn’t. A missing link needs to be filled in. Otherwise, the world we inhabit will be disconnected from its source, as it largely is right now."
    Last edited by chocolate; 20th January 2014 at 22:26.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I didn't read all the thread and I apologize for that if what I might say has been rendered irrelevant since the OP or already mentioned.

    Nothing is real except the NOW - it's reality extends forward and backwards as possibilities (yes the now can possibly change the past, but we would never "notice" this), because in reality there exists only the now. In regards to the time tunnels that are created and extend from the now, as the now changes, so do the potential futures. Some of these are relatively stable - others, not so much. Therefore they are not "set in stone" and are entirely variable, and being re-written for both each individual and for humans collectively, all the time. This only makes logical sense.

    To add some more context to this there is the "Red Sky Prophecy" - when I looked into this, the shaman who gave the prophecy described prophetic outcomes as possibilities, and there are always many, many timelines that flow from the present (I'm paraphrasing here, google red sky prophecy to find the whole story) at all times. When looking forward, all you can see are potentials, and then indications along certain potentials that indicate you are likely on timeline "X". The red sky prophecies are based around 5 potential prophecies all on the same timeline, and if the 5th prophecy comes true, it means we have not left the timeline that will bring extremely hard times for humanity. If I remember correctly 4 - of the 5 prophecies have come true. The 5th is the prophecy of a blood red sky, again if I recall correctly.

    This story was presented to just add 3rd party context to my view about how timelines work - again, my apology if someone already detailed this.

    So with time travel - predicting the future is really tricky business. In this day of rapid daily change on planet earth - I believe the "future" was become extremely difficult to predict, even with the most exotic technology and skilled psychics of the elite.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 21st January 2014 at 02:57. Reason: spelling + grammar +clarity
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    Craig, sorry to hear the allegory made you sad. It is not my story, I found it few months ago, but it was so profoundly close to the way I saw the world, that had to share it here.
    no need to apologise Chocolate, it makes me sad cause it just feels like a waste of time in a way, I was so eager not to have to return here for a while. But I did spend some time thinking about it last night, if we are actually 1 and we are simultaneously living these lives do we(I) have to live them over and over again, dealing with the idea of no time where does that stand? We(I) have to have 7 billion + goes down here?

    And what would it be like at intermission (between lives) God would say next life, Chinese peasant, Indian Beggar, - how many times do you live a life to understand it as there a few billion souls that are currently incarnated, does it depend on what is to be learnt?

    Also I must admit when I read about the backdrop people that was a mind blower, these were to travel across all dimensions filling in where required. I actually started to look around and see if i could spot them but in a pack area how could you tell? Probably need to wait for the matrix to show some bare threads at the edges....

    love this post although i don't understand too much of it.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Craig, just to expand on my previous rambling(s),
    Think of it as if you are living in a computer game created just for you. Everything is frozen until the moment you observe it. I see it in front of my eyes, but don't know how to describe it with words right now.

    In that sense all the people in that airport Dolores Cannon mentioned are there as objects that move and do certain things to give that airport some life of its own, but as long as you don't 'accept or put' them in your mental image, they will remain as a filler in that space.

    It makes sense if you have ever created an architectural project of a building or interior and you need to put some life in it to make people have a sense of scale and atmosphere.
    Same with the computer games- you create the players and the surroundings, give them tools, create for them tasks to perform and to interact with the game structure. Very rude and simplistic representation, but for me it all makes an overall sense.

    When we participate in the game we get in it at a different stage depending what we want to experience from the POV of the Higher Observer. That is how you live all those 'lives' not in the time sequence we are used to understand time here. You could be coming from the future of this moment to live again now, and after that you may get in the game in our past relative again to the now. The final goal is always to collect what you can from those experiences no matter of the sequence you acquire them relative to our sense of time.

    When I accept for myself that idea, all kind of prophecies and catastrophic events loose their power over me. Not that it is out of the scenario that they may happen, but I am not focusing on them anymore.

    I agree with you that it feels lonely from time to time.

    Being a bit withdrawn from society and living in my own space and time, a bit like John Nash from "A Beautiful Mind' (this film made me cry yesterday, and today I still feel drained and saddened), I can easily relate to what he was experiencing throughout his life as shown in the film. Having a 'beautiful' or a bit unusual mind most of the times makes your existence here quite difficult, simply because the idea of being here is to play, not to understand why you play.

    For all of us 'alive' here, there are still things to learn, people to meet, tasks to accomplish. Until all of the array is covered we will keep coming back to play. The only way out is ... (I was going to say up, but) realizing what is important and focusing on it. That is the one and only message all our 'sages' or messiahs were trying to bring to us- focus on the what is important now, but not on the 'spies coming out of the water' as Coldplay put it, meaning not to focus on the illusion of (the material) things, but on the really important immaterial ones.
    In buddhism (I am not much familiar with everything, but at one point learned a few concepts) the followers were supposed to create no attachments to anything- people, places, things, even to their bodies and pleasures, including the beauty of the world and all that is in it. One of the reasons is that the idea is to distinguish what is illusion and what really matters. But than another stream comes that makes you realize that your physical surroundings and the body included are to a great extend your vehicles to help you navigate the Sea.

    So, knowing of the structure of the game, and on the overall picture frame (but not knowing everything that is to know about it!), we are given the chance to find our balance and keep going until we collect everything that is necessary for those above who operate the gears of our lives here.
    If 'time' doesn't exists for the final goal of playing the game, than you cannot 'waste' it while playing.
    Last edited by chocolate; 21st January 2014 at 17:54.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I found time-travellers have their own forum ( sure more than one ) , just came across this yesterday :

    http://timetravelinstitute.com/threa...ts.6975/page-2

    Very sci-fi of course, enjoyed the pictures .




    If you see reptilian at the end .. scare him away

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Agape, those images... I will spend some 'time' in that forum, thank you for pointing it out.

    Parallel Worlds that soon will be testable
    http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/pelletier20131227

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I have to say I babbled here a lot guided by my own [in]sanity, and than I found others who have done that before me, and I stopped there to read a bit too:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post645810
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post651466

    That complete thread might be interesting to consider in the light of predetermination and the nature of the 'game'.
    I have read in the last half an hour only what Limor and Jeffrey have written [the links above] (BTW Jeffrey a.k.a. Vivek is someone I am particularly fond of after reading some of his threads).
    Last edited by chocolate; 21st January 2014 at 21:31.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    Agape, those images... I will spend some 'time' in that forum, thank you for pointing it out.
    ...
    As a long time sci fi buff, I recognized many of those images. Several were from the game EVE online, I saw a Federation Star Trek vessel and the Romulan mining vessel from the Star Trek reboot, and even the planetary contraption from the Jim Henson movie "The Dark Crystal" -- nonetheless, some spectacular sci fi imagery there, very nice.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I'd recommend this book of essays on John Nash' 'game theory' to about everyone on this forum since it fills palpable gap of explanation of human behaviour, its predictability, predetermination, the way human brain balances between rational choices and irrational behaviour and provides certain important clues to questions some of us seem to be asking daily,
    about the structure and behaviour of the internet matrix, groups like forums, political and social movements, economical stability and instability,
    functions of human brain ..did I say that already and much more.

    Game theory is definitely something important not to be missed if you wish to understand advanced behaviour of species .

    The intriguing implications of it are too many to quote . Maybe each should derive their own benefit and if we did ,
    hypothetically .. would we form more 'perfect ' system ?


    Ladies and gentlemen .. welcome John Nash in PDF form :




    http://barrybeck.com/forms/siegfried.pdf




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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I love Agape. [and everyone else, too]

    Since I walk around the forum from time to time, Bill suggested this interview for another reason, but it is valid here too [I think]:
    this is the first part

    The thread this was mentioned in is: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post787542
    Last edited by chocolate; 23rd January 2014 at 09:28.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    I love Agape. [and everyone else, too]

    Since I walk around the forum from time to time, Bill suggested this interview for another reason, but it is valid here too [I think]:
    this is the first part

    The thread this was mentioned in is: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post787542
    I watched a lot of Dan Burisch videos a while back. What Dan Burisch has said has shaped a lot of my thinking on time travel, since a lot of it works in a step by step way without paradoxes. When I try to think it through all the way and think up thought experiments related to it, I start running into a lot of the questions that I have brought up in this thread related to what creates a new time branch.

    As a side note, something that Dan said that didn't quite make sense to me in a step by step way was that the "face on Mars" was a distorted temporal anomaly from a future timeline. He vaguely talked about futures being changed that changed memories of the past such that a memory might be vague of a history that did exist, but doesn't anymore. Dan said that physics wasn't his field, so he didn't completely understand it and was only going by things that he had heard from some of the Black Ops people that he had worked with.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Alien Ramone, I hope you will remember and come back to check up on your thread.
    I specifically decided to come here after watching a 5 part film on Leonardo Da Vinci. How and why I meandered in those areas is a long story. You were so kind to allow me to usurp your thread a bit, so this time will not write book chapters.

    The film is a 5 part series done for the italian TV (English audio). Here is one place to get it:
    http://thepiratebay.se/search/rAI%20...eonardo/0/99/0

    I feel Leonardo was able to 'see' a lot of his inventions through his 'inner sight' backed up by the fact that he is an unusual character from any point of view.
    Many people believe he is a time traveler from 2004-5 that has been stuck in 15th century. I don't agree with them.
    I can also relate to him and his life quite a bit. I am not saying I am a genius, just that I can relate.
    So for me he was actually living in a world of though of his own observing nature with a very keen and open eye, and allowing himself to assume things and explore possibilities, Remote Viewing based on what already exists in nature and if front of him in a way.

    Bill probably will like the film also.
    Leonardo was thinking in the line of 'as below so above' too.

    In the last part of the series (5) has been mentioned (cryptic) something assumed to be his work on a telescope during his last years in the Vatican ( I might be wrong about the place, but I am sure it was presented just before the end ).

    I think the assumption about the telescope is not correct. (why -> see the russian video about the concave mirrors on a previous page).

    Bottom line for me in this post: it feels like our/mine? assumption of time and that everything already exists, might seem correct, if you think about what Leonardo has achieved and how.

    [ He seemed as a very lonely (famous) person. my heart cried for him ]
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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    Check also this:
    it deals with timelines and when I saw/heard it was really world turning for me.
    this was about Napoleon and a possible change in the timeline when he has visited Egypt.

    These are related to what you mentioned about the face on mars and that it doesn't quite compute with you. It doesn't quite fit in my mind also, but if I decide to see it rather than understand it, it makes some sense.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    The second part on "What Is Cosmic Consciousness", cont. from post 82 above:


    Quote The question at hand is whether there is such a thing as higher consciousness? We are using the term “cosmic consciousness” to denote a state of awareness that knows itself completely, a state of inner silence that is in direct contact with existence. Such a state would be free, without suffering or limitation. If there is such a state, then human evolution has a goal to aim for one that is natural and credible rather than supernatural and faith-based.

    As scientific evidence, we began with the quantum vacuum, which is the source of everything that’s deemed “material,” from atoms to galaxies. In everyday usage a vacuum implies total emptiness, but the quantum vacuum is the origin and the end place of our universe, and possibly countless others. In fact, standard quantum field theory gives us an estimate of the mass-energy density of the quantum vacuum: a cubic centimeter of empty space (about the size of the tip of your finger) contains about 10 32 more mass energy-density than all visible matter in the universe! (That’s 1 followed by 32 zeroes, which more energy than all the trillion or so of all luminous galaxies in the observable universe.)

    At the source, “quantum foam” is constantly bubbling up to produce everything in creation, here and now. Which means that the quantum revolution that began more than a century ago has effectively overthrown the common-sense notion of matter as something solid, tangible, and reliable. By implication, everything we associate with matter – the sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell of “material” things – has also been overthrown. If that seems radical, quantum theory goes further and dispatches time and space as constant, reliable aspects of reality. They, too, emerge from the “nothingness” of the quantum vacuum.

    Why should this matter in everyday life? Because mystics have pointed to a reality that transcends this world, and so does modern physics. It is tantalizing that two worldviews are compatible, both contending that the source of time, space, matter, and energy doesn’t contain time, space, matter, and energy. It lies beyond them, in an inconceivable somewhere that has no location; it’s not a “place” in any common-sense use of the word. Let’s see how deep this agreement goes.

    Not only is the quantum vacuum the source and resting place of countless particles (and through them perhaps countless universes). It contains all potentialities of existence, everything we can, and cannot, imagine. The world’s spiritual traditions say the same of God, the Absolute, or what we prefer to call cosmic consciousness. The terminology isn’t important, only the concept of mind preceding matter. Your mind is filled with invisible potential. It contains every word you know and every possible sentence that you might choose to put in words. Even though you speak or think only one word at a time, the number of potential sentences you can make is essentially infinite.

    In the quantum model, the space-time continuum contains by far the tiniest of possible energies, since at its foundation resides the quantum foam, where space and time don’t even make sense. The quantum foam contains at least six other dimensions predicted by superstring theory. These emerge but never fully develop into macroscopic scales, as do regular three-dimensional space and one-dimensional time.
    Cont.
    Full Article on 3 pages here: http://www.sfgate.com/default/articl...005.php#page-1

    I took the liberty to color only what made a quick impression on me.
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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination


    For anyone who is familiar with the celtic tradition and symbolism, this is a labyrinth based on the (knot) design of the celts, through the eyes and mind of Leonardo.
    I know, it is seemingly unrelated to the theme of the thread. Or is it?

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination


    Now it is your turn ( to find the right way).



    ***
    'Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?' asked Alice.
    'That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,' said the Cat.
    'I don't much care where—' said Alice.
    'Then it doesn't matter which way you go,' said the Cat.
    '—so long as I get SOMEWHERE,' Alice added as an explanation.
    'Oh, you're sure to do that,' said the Cat, 'if you only walk long enough.'

    ***
    Last edited by chocolate; 31st January 2014 at 23:53.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination


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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination


    This is quite a lengthy video dedicated to the SUBJECTIVE nature of reality. After watching at least the first part one may wonder about the endless possibilities related to the subject matter of the current conversation or rather monologue.

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    Default Re: Time Travel and Predetermination

    I have several ebooks from Philip K. Dick, which are on my list to read, but still haven't found the time.
    The man has spoken about this almost at the time I was born. It has to be a theory really hard to accept:

    http://www.openculture.com/2014/02/p...d-reality.html
    Last edited by chocolate; 3rd February 2014 at 18:46.

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