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Thread: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote The melted snow should have simply been chemically analyzed, period. The water (I'll bet a sack of potatoes) would have numerous pollutants due to 21st century society and sparsely regulated corporate polluting piggies, plus aluminum and barium compounds from geoengineering. "Burning" pristine, "real" snow with a butane lighter will make a polluted mess, because butane burns dirty
    .

    I did not say that snow (the real stuff that falls every winter) and rain does not contain pollutants, including aluminum and barium (some from chemtrailing and some naturally occurring), but also thousands of different chemicals and pollution from industrialized nations.

    We cannot put on the blame in the ‘polluting piggies’ because each and everyone of us are the polluters because WE are the ones wanting the ‘stuff’ that is creating the reason for pollution.

    I have never said that our polluted air (and water) is not an ongoing problem that we have had for many years. I am saying, however, that we have to STOP terrorizing people that the very air they breathe is laden with nano particles and chemicals that are keeping them from (fictitious) transcendence into some ethereal existence. We have to STOP this ongoing brainwashing of people into believing they are victims of stifling slavery with no hope of any kind of peaceful cohabitation.

    And you know what??? The alternative community is doing this . . . . NOT ‘them’ . . . .I see thread after thread after thread popping up with this absurd meme that we are slaves of reptile/archon controlled super elite. Fear mongering (like killer chemtrail snow that doesn’t melt) and even though these implanted fear memes are often debunked it still STICKS in peoples minds. I have watched this particular meme build over the past year . . . . here on Avalon and other alternative websites and forums . . . it is not ‘them’ that is implanting these absurd notions and information . . . . it is US!

    Quote So, research by others is bullsh!t? Really? Whose research can we rely on - only our own? Do you really think the scientists that were interviewed for the documentary "What on Earth are they Spraying?" - reportedly credentialed scientists - just flat out lied when they say that samples were taken far off-road and far away from civilization that show aluminum concentrations 6000 times highrer than baseline data for the area? You're no doubt familiar with "extrapolating" data, and that is how the calculations are made that there have been "copious amounts" of metals sprayed. You didn't think that we we have to scrape a 1/4 inch of soil off of the entire US to gain insight into how much has been sprayed, did you? (rhetorical) You can't possibly be suggesting that the scientists who claim to have taken soil, water, and snow samples are all lying and making this all up, can you? Your most serious accusation "there [are] no copious amounts of nano-particles [geoengineering metals] is accusing all of these scientists (not so 6th grade dropout YouTubers) of deliberately falsifying data
    .

    This is a good example of what I mean Dennis. Who do you think the people are that created “What on Earth are They Spraying”? These people have a meme to spread . . . these people have an agenda . . . these people force data to reinforce what they what to say and create. I will stand by my statement that there are no massive amount of nano laden (robot thingies) metal particulates YES! Those metals are present in ‘certain’ samples from the very real geoengineering. But they are not (at this time) in the massive measurable amounts that is being reported in the alternative world media.

    I personal KNOW this from my own sampling both in Kansas and here in Virginia. I have even been following three gas drilling crews (Halliburton and Chesapeake) all over SW Virginia the last 3 years and taking samples of soil and water aquifers close to and miles away from these drill/fracking sites. I actually have another trip planned for next weekend to hike from a heavily fracked drill site down a mountain to the main river to sample the water from spring water that is flowing heavily right now because of all the rain we have had. These samples also measure any metals and chemicals present in the water. I use 3 independent labs I use and pay for this out of my own pocket.

    I have nothing to prove or disprove . . . I just want to know the FACTS from my own work and research . . . .PERIOD.

    I am sick and angry and frustrated of being fed lies and misinformation from ALL damn sources. Including the alternative media and New Age religion.

    What I have found from samples from my Kansas farm and the samples here in no way supports what we are being told. Are there pollutants? Yes! Is there (sometimes) barium and aluminum present? Yes!

    But keep in mind that barium and aluminum are also NATURALLY occurring metals. They both are on the ‘periodic table of elements” . . . .remember your basic chemistry? It is essential we have these metals present in our soil and it is NATURAL that they are present.

    I have yet to find overwhelming amounts of these metals in my soil samples and this is even from Kansas when ‘at times’ the chemtrailing was so heavy over my organic farm that there would be a fine film or ‘dusting’ on my equipment, ponds and even the backs of my animals.

    I have never found little nano (robot thingies) or anything that resembled ‘man made’ microscopic organisms/particles.

    Have you? Has anyone on this forum? First hand, up front, undeniable evidence that is 100% irrefutable?? Do you have anything in your possession proving this? I don’t . . .and I have been taking samples for the last 10+ years!

    Quote So what exactly are they using for geoengineering that you agree is happening, since you say it is NOT metals as has been scientifically reported?
    Yes they are using many metals and chemicals for geoengineering including aluminum and barium. I have no doubt . . . .no doubt at all . . . they are experimenting with all kinds of technology to eventually be capable of controlling our weather. I also think nano-particles could be part of this technology. And I support this technology. At one time I did not. I was in the same group as many on Avalon who are railing against chemtrailing and geoengineering . . .but no longer . . . certain aspects I still am because we (and our scientist) are human and many times have to blunder through and these blunders are hurtful many times. But I am fairly confident that our scientist across our planet and researchers will find a way to effectively and safely control our weather.

    So, I am not saying and never have said they are not geoengineering . . . I AM saying they are geoengineering for a very different reason other than ‘they’ are killing us and enslaving us and performing mass blood rituals or some other satanic/reptilian blood right rituals . . .THIS is fear mongering and creating a meme that is (I feel) psychological, emotional and spiritual abuse . . . and this meme is coming from the alternative world not ‘their’ world.

    Geoengineering is taking place in order for us TO survive this increasingly catastrophic global weather. And so that our planet does not go through these extreme swings from ice age to unstable inhospitable weather. AND NO! “they” are not creating this extreme weather from the simple fact our ENTIRE solar system is experiencing strange weather and phenomenon. Our sun is behaving strangely . . . planets are experiencing weather our scientist have never seen.

    Geoengineering is taking place (rapidly now) in order for humanity not to be knocked back into another stone age or ice age.


    Quote Hang on a minute. The BLUE pill (meme) is the drug that obscures reality, and allows you to blissfully acquiesce to all that is happening to you, so that you will not see reality.

    The RED pill is a placebo. It is not a drug, it is a symbol of wanting to no longer be drugged to "see" a fantasy, but rather to want to see reality. If you take no pill or the red pill, you experience reality (I know, in the "Matrix" movie, the red pill was "active", but in the sense of needing an antidote.)

    There is no "middle ground" between truth and a fictitious, engineered, quasi-reality. Truth is the absence of fiction/lies. This is not a false dichotomy. You either want to see the truth and experience reality or you don't.
    Still not taking nor have I ever bought into this blue pill/red pill meme . . but it is obvious many have.

    Quote You either want to see the truth and experience reality or you don't.
    I agree Dennis (and others reading this) either you want to see the truth and experience reality or you don’t. There are many false dichotomies . . . including those created by the Alternative World/ New Age people.

    Quote The fictitious middle ground between truth and lies is some sort of confusion, befuddlement - and not a desirable state for peaceful peasant or warrior. Telling others to "stand down" when they should be fighting is putting them in danger. Wait and see? The GMO issue you personally can circumvent for yourself, but there are millions of "captive" humans (prisoners, and the the people induced into a stupor by the blue pill - television and believing official government lies) who cannot. How do we not breathe-in the geoengineering elements/compounds? I suspect that the Global Elite have methods of filtering nanoparticulates out of the indoor air they breathe, and some method of detoxifying what they are subject to breathing. Wait and see is false hoe and bad advice.
    Really Dennis ? Seriously big brotherget a grip on your fear level. Come back down a bit to reality. Breathe the damn air . . it is not killing us . . . . unless you live in the big cities of China or other places where air pollution is horrendous.

    When you show me a nano-particulate that you have pulled/sampled out of the air the very air you are breathing then I will be right there with you.

    Regarding the rest of your post I will end in saying I have never said anything about benevolent aliens or elite. I have never said that what they are doing to bring about the NWO or whatever it will be called, is benevolent or evil. This notion has been put on me by you (Dennis) and many others. The only way I can personally keep things straight in my own reasoning and understanding is to keep the knowledge and information neutral. At the very point you assign benevolent or evil (or any other) emotion to research it colors and mutates all the rest of the research and therefore the outcome of it.

    I am not supporting any agenda . . .or trying not to . . . I am not aligning with any faction until I am certain of that factions agenda or goals. To be quite honest I am no longer sure at all who the ‘good guys’ are . . . .

    I have been burned and deeply disillusioned by past memes on Avalon and the alternative/ new age world, as well as, the ‘rat race’ or world created by ‘them’.

    This new meme (last year or so) on Avalon and other alternative sources, I feel strongly is more destructive and will have even farther reaching negative impacts for many years to come than some of the others. I think this new meme is a foundation being built for what I am waiting and watching . . . this too will come to light.

    One thing that I can always rely on and therefore trust is there will be a broad spread of dualistic polarized thinking and believing and behaving . . such as . . alternative/new age (supposedly good guys) and elite controllers (supposedly bad guys) . . .and the real truth is somewhere in the balanced in-between.

    Good guys. Bad Guys. Benevolent. Evil. . . . not going there . . not yet . . . I can wait and watch and then act on the foundational truth. There is an Art to War . . . mastering this ‘art’ is difficult and one has to be very patient and wise.

    Be leery of the ‘meme’ . . . all memes . . no matter the source.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Although this post is somewhat off topic I would like say the following and this relates back to my childhood contact (see this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ct-as-a-child-)

    I feel strongly that it is absolutely imperative we (this time) retain all our scientific advancements and technology

    It is imperative to ‘making it this time’ . . . this was a constant statement that I remember from that contact 40 + years ago.

    I believe it was Henry Deacon that also has said that it is imperative our advancement into space travel not be deterred or tampered with. See threads such as this: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...456#post792456


    Geoengineering, therefore, I feel strongly is part of the technology needed to make sure we retain the ability for advancing into space travel in the very near future.

    Geoengineering is only one scientific advancement that has the capability (eventually) of protecting us from solar storms (flares, cme, emp) or extreme swings in our global weather. Because of the ever growing extreme weather on our planet and solar system it is being implemented rapidly now to try to stay ahead.

    The only way to be successful with anything is to work hard at it. Ideas have to be put into action in order for the ‘bugs’ to be worked out and for the idea to be fruitful. The only way to geoengineer a planet is to actually put that engineering into action and work though the problems and downfalls . . . . .anything this massive and this technical will have huge pitfalls to overcome. . . . but what else can they do?

    It is absolutely imperative we retain our ability to become pioneers into the next frontier . . . Space. . . . . this is not just for a few ‘elite’ . . this is for all of humanity . . . . humanity on this planet and others.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Blufire, there's one thing about your opinion that doesn't jive with me.

    Now, I do believe that turbulent climate change is upon us. And I also believe the evidence that indicates it's not just us. Every other body in our solar system, including the sun, has shown signs over the past couple decades that the entire system is absorbing energy and experiencing some forms of turbulence as a result. For example we've seen planetary storms on Saturn that engulf the entire northern hemisphere, something that has never been seen before.

    So, in one way I agree with your theory that the big boys in the food chain here on earth have figured this out, and have also figured out what the ramifications will be, (i.e. it's gonna kill us in great numbers or severely ruin our current standard of living) and that "chemtrails" are one of the things they are trying to do to minimize the harmful effects of those changes that we are seeing. But there's one aspect to this scenario that doesn't fit.

    The world's financial system is a wreck. I have seen enough to convince me that the current "scarcity paradigm" that is currently in place across the globe is indeed a design of those at the top of this pyramid of wealth. It doesn't take much research to see the formation of all the world's companies into a grand pyramid, with all the profit and control resting at the top.

    Those are the people who run governments and nations, not our elected officials. And I'm convinced they are only interested in themselves, and have every desire to see us under their boot providing them with their wealth and status for as long as they can maintain and/or improve on that status quo.

    To me, this means chemtrailing is happening because they want it. Can we infer that the reason they are doing it is because they still need their blind sheep to generate their wealth and send it up the food chain and if the masses were wiped out by climate disasters then these elites would be the ones left living in the stone ages? That could be, but there's been a lot of evidence to show that these elites probably agree that they could still do just fine with only 15% of the world's current population. We've all heard them refer to us as useless eaters. So I'm not so convinced that chemtrails are there to save us.

    But I could be wrong. The skies in Ecuador are clear blue year round, so maybe in two years they will all be dead and us lucky ones in America will all still be standing and happy.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Damien Toner (here)

    This is insane, disgusting and sad.
    Yes, it is. It's really quite hard to understand.

    Either there's real insanity at work here, or real evil, or maybe both. I have to say, for a while now I've had it niggling at the back of my mind that what's afoot may be to offer up the entirety of Planet Earth as some kind of ultimate blood sacrifice.
    And that's just it, isn't it? How does one separate the truly ignorant from those who have a deliberate agenda? I suppose in the end it doesn't really matter.

    The earth as one big sacrifice? It's an interesting theory, one I haven't heard yet. But if that were the case, wouldn't it be much easier to simply nuke the place? Or flood it? Why bother with all the pageantry of weather manipulation, gmo's, chemtrails etc? Seems a lot of unnecessary work.

    Not sure. Thinking out loud here...

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by seeker1972 (here)
    Blufire, there's one thing about your opinion that doesn't jive with me.

    Now, I do believe that turbulent climate change is upon us. And I also believe the evidence that indicates it's not just us. Every other body in our solar system, including the sun, has shown signs over the past couple decades that the entire system is absorbing energy and experiencing some forms of turbulence as a result. For example we've seen planetary storms on Saturn that engulf the entire northern hemisphere, something that has never been seen before.

    So, in one way I agree with your theory that the big boys in the food chain here on earth have figured this out, and have also figured out what the ramifications will be, (i.e. it's gonna kill us in great numbers or severely ruin our current standard of living) and that "chemtrails" are one of the things they are trying to do to minimize the harmful effects of those changes that we are seeing. But there's one aspect to this scenario that doesn't fit.

    The world's financial system is a wreck. I have seen enough to convince me that the current "scarcity paradigm" that is currently in place across the globe is indeed a design of those at the top of this pyramid of wealth. It doesn't take much research to see the formation of all the world's companies into a grand pyramid, with all the profit and control resting at the top.

    Those are the people who run governments and nations, not our elected officials. And I'm convinced they are only interested in themselves, and have every desire to see us under their boot providing them with their wealth and status for as long as they can maintain and/or improve on that status quo.

    To me, this means chemtrailing is happening because they want it. Can we infer that the reason they are doing it is because they still need their blind sheep to generate their wealth and send it up the food chain and if the masses were wiped out by climate disasters then these elites would be the ones left living in the stone ages? That could be, but there's been a lot of evidence to show that these elites probably agree that they could still do just fine with only 15% of the world's current population. We've all heard them refer to us as useless eaters. So I'm not so convinced that chemtrails are there to save us.

    But I could be wrong. The skies in Ecuador are clear blue year round, so maybe in two years they will all be dead and us lucky ones in America will all still be standing and happy.

    Thank you much for this reply seeker1972 let me try on this thread to flesh out a bit more of what I have tried to say on my thread about my contact.

    Thank you very much for acknowledging the ‘weather’ or phenomenon of our solar system and the erratic behavior on other planets and our sun. This is a very grounding base factor to build from to analyze what is happening on our planet and the technology being (rapidly) implemented.

    Yes! Our current financial system is a wreck and IS being systematically collapsed. This is most definitely one of the most foundational structures that has to be abolished in order for the NWO or a Unified Planet to be established. Some other foundational structures that are being destroyed are individualized governments or power structures, all religion, how we view family and marriage . . . any thing that provides unity or strength to individual countries and nations.

    The global financial and economic structures are the MOST primary structure that has to be collapsed in order for the NEW ONE global financial system to be implemented.

    I am very patriotic and love my country . . . but I have started to believe how a unified global government would end much of the problems we have between our power structures and governments. I have begun to wonder that if there is unity among all continents and nations if this would not end all war and the massive gulf between those who have and those who have not. (scarcity, which is a new age concept and meme by the way)

    We have to have structure and rules and some sort of established government or council of leaders . . . so instead of hundreds of governments and leaders that in no way can agree and are always posturing for power and control with threats of war and destruction . . . I can see how having just ONE ultimate leadership that governs the entire planet would be possibly a good thing.

    We are going global and there is no stopping this inevitable reality. The internet and rapid transportation and communication have already eliminated the lines of distinction between our continents and nations.

    We are going Global and then we will be going into Space. Our planet has to be first unified and on the same page before we can take our place among other planets and the solar system.

    ‘Those’ who are making this happen . . and I have no good name for them . . . are not who we call the ‘elite’ or the cabal or the evil reptiles . . . these ‘people’ have absolutely no use for money . . . .they are not controlled by or desire wealth or gold or social status. I feel these are individuals who have managed to balanced our reptilian and mammalian dualistic nature . . . I feel these are individuals who have and understand all the ancient Knowledge and accurate history of not only our planet but of our solar system. I do not believe these individuals to be benevolent or evil.

    The elite or cabal (as we call them) or those who have wealth and prestige will absolutely resist this global movement because they know it will be the elimination of their control and power . . . or the little they think they have.

    In the over all scheme of reality these elite or cabal are absolutely no different than we are . . .WE in our minds and apathy give them this power and control only from the pathetic stance of money . . money . . . money . . . money. I am not their slave or their minion as the alternative world or New Age religion wants me to believe or be . . . . because I left the rat race and that game (a game I played well) and this very deliberate move has allowed me to see more clearer and to be at total peace than I have ever been.
    .
    I see this play out over and over in my head and clearer everyday as I have begun to remember.

    Going Global and becoming Unified will be a very good thing for our planet and our solar system it is just getting there will be absolutely horrible . . . this will take 25+ years . . . . all religion . . all financial constructs . . . all government and national leaderships and control factions have to be dissolved and eliminated before the One Government can be established . . . and this will create massive chaos.

    If we as a group and as individuals can come to grip with this Truth then we as groups and individuals can soften this transition. I am doing this and have been for many years now . . .creating safe harbors and places while we go through these many years(25+) of darkness and difficulty. This is my mission and why I am at this place and at this time.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by bruno dante (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Damien Toner (here)

    This is insane, disgusting and sad.
    Yes, it is. It's really quite hard to understand.

    Either there's real insanity at work here, or real evil, or maybe both. I have to say, for a while now I've had it niggling at the back of my mind that what's afoot may be to offer up the entirety of Planet Earth as some kind of ultimate blood sacrifice.
    And that's just it, isn't it? How does one separate the truly ignorant from those who have a deliberate agenda? I suppose in the end it doesn't really matter.

    The earth as one big sacrifice? It's an interesting theory, one I haven't heard yet. But if that were the case, wouldn't it be much easier to simply nuke the place? Or flood it? Why bother with all the pageantry of weather manipulation, gmo's, chemtrails etc? Seems a lot of unnecessary work.

    Not sure. Thinking out loud here...
    I agree with you bruno dante,

    I feel statements such as these (ultimate blood sacrifice on a planetary scale) are irresponsible and create deep seated fear and apathy.

    This sort of meme makes absolutely no sense to me.

    If the planet is being geoengineered to make it more habitable for this evil reptilian race then why all the hoopla? If this is true then wouldn’t they would simply come in kill all us humans in one big massive blood bath and use their more advanced technology to ‘fix the planet’ to their liking and comfort?

    Why put up with us measly humans and our paltry inferior technology inhabiting a planet that they want to claim as their own? Seriously if this demented advanced evil alien race existed they would view us the way most view a hill of ants. They would have no qualms eliminating what they would see as a mere nuisance.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    I see where you're coming from, blufire. But then that means--if you think the chemtrails are a work in progress that is ultimately being carried out for our global benefit--then you think it's the ones who want the "new secular order" who are behind the chemtrails? And not the elites at the top of the current economic food chain? Look at the nations that are still in the clutches of these economic elites: The US, UK, Germany, Japan (somewhat), and some others. Those are the places where the heaviest chemtrailing is happening, isn't it? Wouldn't we be seeing the opposite, if what you're saying is true? The US it seems, ought to be the last country to ever see chemtrails, I would think.

    Also, what if we take into the argument the possibilty that the increases in energy that the entire solar system is experiencing, what if that will also have an impact on each of the humans, and not just on the climate? I currently lean toward the belief that we will all be affected in a way that will be liberating to us, and those economic elites are using chemtrails to try to keep this from happening.

    What if they could tell that the energetic changes in the solar system would cause the majority of the humans on earth to develop ESP? Mental telepathy? That would kind of spell the end to a lot of their closely guarded secrets. That would be a huge threat to them, if they thought this could happen. So cover us with this stuff that will shield us from the cosmic energy, or make it much more difficult for our bodies to change.

    Just another possible scenario, I guess. I'm just glad to see that the conversations are no longer about convincing people that it's going on, and are turning more towards understanding why.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by bruno dante (here)
    [...]

    The earth as one big sacrifice? It's an interesting theory, one I haven't heard yet. But if that were the case, wouldn't it be much easier to simply nuke the place? Or flood it? Why bother with all the pageantry of weather manipulation, gmo's, chemtrails etc? Seems a lot of unnecessary work.

    Not sure. Thinking out loud here...
    Well, taking the point of view of the "invaders" and their culinary taste, all these things could be considered "spices" for their reptilian banquet or their "All-you-can-eat" buffet....
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Quote Posted by bruno dante (here)
    [...]

    The earth as one big sacrifice? It's an interesting theory, one I haven't heard yet. But if that were the case, wouldn't it be much easier to simply nuke the place? Or flood it? Why bother with all the pageantry of weather manipulation, gmo's, chemtrails etc? Seems a lot of unnecessary work.

    Not sure. Thinking out loud here...
    Well, taking the point of view of the "invaders" and their culinary taste, all these things could be considered "spices" for their reptilian banquet or their "All-you-can-eat" buffet....

    But aren't there only something like 20 reptilians left on the planet? That's a lot of spices!. (Of course, there might be a million or more...if they even exist. Who knows? Right? But I believe the current thinking is that there are only a small contingent left)

    I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately: is it better to err on the side of excessive suspicion or even paranoia, or is it better to err on the side of militant common sense. Someone will surely evoke a theme of balance, but I would challenge anyone here to define what that means exactly. I think we are always vacillating between excessive suspicion and perhaps excessive trust in the goings on of the world, and we're lucky if our cumulative thoughts and actions bring us close to balance at the end of the day.

    Regarding the manipulation of weather: when I think of climate engineering, I immediately think of chemtrails. Surely they exist. The sky here has resembled a tick-tack-toe board more times than I can count. However, if I'm being totally honest, I've never felt their effects. I've never even felt a subtle change in my body or mind. If they are so poisonous, why haven't I gone into convulsions, or erupted in hives or something? I've had allergies and asthma since I was a youth, and I am very sensitive to the environment. Not once, in all the years I've been exposed to chemtrails, have I felt even the slightest bit of discomfort. It's interesting. Makes me think a little...

    Now, I'm well read on the Illuminatti "slow-kill" method, and maybe this is what's occurring. Maybe that's the genius of it...that we don't feel its effects till it's too late -- like GMO foods or vaccines. However, the difference between this and chemtrails, is that the so-called Illuminatti have to breathe the same air as we do. Unless this is a large scale murder-suicide, I fail to see how this helps them. Perhaps they have a plan to move off-planet. But I suppose that's a whole other thread...
    Last edited by bruno dante; 10th February 2014 at 23:42.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    Quote Posted by seeker1972 (here)
    Blufire, there's one thing about your opinion that doesn't jive with me.

    Now, I do believe that turbulent climate change is upon us. And I also believe the evidence that indicates it's not just us. Every other body in our solar system, including the sun, has shown signs over the past couple decades that the entire system is absorbing energy and experiencing some forms of turbulence as a result. For example we've seen planetary storms on Saturn that engulf the entire northern hemisphere, something that has never been seen before.

    So, in one way I agree with your theory that the big boys in the food chain here on earth have figured this out, and have also figured out what the ramifications will be, (i.e. it's gonna kill us in great numbers or severely ruin our current standard of living) and that "chemtrails" are one of the things they are trying to do to minimize the harmful effects of those changes that we are seeing. But there's one aspect to this scenario that doesn't fit.

    The world's financial system is a wreck. I have seen enough to convince me that the current "scarcity paradigm" that is currently in place across the globe is indeed a design of those at the top of this pyramid of wealth. It doesn't take much research to see the formation of all the world's companies into a grand pyramid, with all the profit and control resting at the top.

    Those are the people who run governments and nations, not our elected officials. And I'm convinced they are only interested in themselves, and have every desire to see us under their boot providing them with their wealth and status for as long as they can maintain and/or improve on that status quo.

    To me, this means chemtrailing is happening because they want it. Can we infer that the reason they are doing it is because they still need their blind sheep to generate their wealth and send it up the food chain and if the masses were wiped out by climate disasters then these elites would be the ones left living in the stone ages? That could be, but there's been a lot of evidence to show that these elites probably agree that they could still do just fine with only 15% of the world's current population. We've all heard them refer to us as useless eaters. So I'm not so convinced that chemtrails are there to save us.

    But I could be wrong. The skies in Ecuador are clear blue year round, so maybe in two years they will all be dead and us lucky ones in America will all still be standing and happy.

    Thank you much for this reply seeker1972 let me try on this thread to flesh out a bit more of what I have tried to say on my thread about my contact.

    Thank you very much for acknowledging the ‘weather’ or phenomenon of our solar system and the erratic behavior on other planets and our sun. This is a very grounding base factor to build from to analyze what is happening on our planet and the technology being (rapidly) implemented.

    Yes! Our current financial system is a wreck and IS being systematically collapsed. This is most definitely one of the most foundational structures that has to be abolished in order for the NWO or a Unified Planet to be established. Some other foundational structures that are being destroyed are individualized governments or power structures, all religion, how we view family and marriage . . . any thing that provides unity or strength to individual countries and nations.

    The global financial and economic structures are the MOST primary structure that has to be collapsed in order for the NEW ONE global financial system to be implemented.

    I am very patriotic and love my country . . . but I have started to believe how a unified global government would end much of the problems we have between our power structures and governments. I have begun to wonder that if there is unity among all continents and nations if this would not end all war and the massive gulf between those who have and those who have not. (scarcity, which is a new age concept and meme by the way)

    We have to have structure and rules and some sort of established government or council of leaders . . . so instead of hundreds of governments and leaders that in no way can agree and are always posturing for power and control with threats of war and destruction . . . I can see how having just ONE ultimate leadership that governs the entire planet would be possibly a good thing.

    We are going global and there is no stopping this inevitable reality. The internet and rapid transportation and communication have already eliminated the lines of distinction between our continents and nations.

    We are going Global and then we will be going into Space. Our planet has to be first unified and on the same page before we can take our place among other planets and the solar system.

    ‘Those’ who are making this happen . . and I have no good name for them . . . are not who we call the ‘elite’ or the cabal or the evil reptiles . . . these ‘people’ have absolutely no use for money . . . .they are not controlled by or desire wealth or gold or social status. I feel these are individuals who have managed to balanced our reptilian and mammalian dualistic nature . . . I feel these are individuals who have and understand all the ancient Knowledge and accurate history of not only our planet but of our solar system. I do not believe these individuals to be benevolent or evil.

    The elite or cabal (as we call them) or those who have wealth and prestige will absolutely resist this global movement because they know it will be the elimination of their control and power . . . or the little they think they have.

    In the over all scheme of reality these elite or cabal are absolutely no different than we are . . .WE in our minds and apathy give them this power and control only from the pathetic stance of money . . money . . . money . . . money. I am not their slave or their minion as the alternative world or New Age religion wants me to believe or be . . . . because I left the rat race and that game (a game I played well) and this very deliberate move has allowed me to see more clearer and to be at total peace than I have ever been.
    .
    I see this play out over and over in my head and clearer everyday as I have begun to remember.

    Going Global and becoming Unified will be a very good thing for our planet and our solar system it is just getting there will be absolutely horrible . . . this will take 25+ years . . . . all religion . . all financial constructs . . . all government and national leaderships and control factions have to be dissolved and eliminated before the One Government can be established . . . and this will create massive chaos.

    If we as a group and as individuals can come to grip with this Truth then we as groups and individuals can soften this transition. I am doing this and have been for many years now . . .creating safe harbors and places while we go through these many years(25+) of darkness and difficulty. This is my mission and why I am at this place and at this time.


    Hi there Bluefire, I love the idea of a unified world ...in the abstract anyway. I love the idea of no countries, no religions etc. John Lennon sung of it in his wonderful utopian-themed song 'Imagine'. The amount of useless death caused in the name of religion and nationalism is exponential.

    I feel the same way about gun control as I do about a one world government. And that is this: in a perfect world it would be perfect! But I remain steadfast in my belief in the right to bear arms, and I remain steadfast in my belief that nations should remain sovereign, and for the same reason too: the lunatics in power are not be trusted. And those lunatics control everything. They already control the entire world through financial manipulation, and I fear unifying the world under a 'one-world' banner would only consolidate their efforts. It would make it easier for them!
    Last edited by bruno dante; 10th February 2014 at 23:23.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    you'd think after 60 plus years of weather modification experience, they could have at least arranged some snow for Putin's Olympics...

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    We cannot put on the blame in the ‘polluting piggies’ because each and everyone of us are the polluters
    A whole different subject, yes we have been sucked into the vortex but our society is set up to use fossil fuels from before you and I were born. There is no easy (or even moderately difficult) way for consumers to exist en masse in this society and not consume the fossil fuels. We're not innocent victims, but we are victims. There is also the matter of scale, and "they" do more damage in an hour than society does in a year. But this is off-topic. Let's save it for another topic.

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    I have never said that our polluted air (and water) is not an ongoing problem that we have had for many years. I am saying, however, that we have to STOP terrorizing people that the very air they breathe is laden with nano particles and chemicals that are keeping them from (fictitious) transcendence into some ethereal existence. We have to STOP this ongoing brainwashing of people into believing they are victims of stifling slavery with no hope of any kind of peaceful cohabitation.

    And you know what??? The alternative community is doing this . . . . NOT ‘them’ . . . .I see thread after thread after thread popping up with this absurd meme that we are slaves of reptile/archon controlled super elite. Fear mongering (like killer chemtrail snow that doesn’t melt) and even though these implanted fear memes are often debunked it still STICKS in peoples minds. I have watched this particular meme build over the past year . . . . here on Avalon and other alternative websites and forums . . . it is not ‘them’ that is implanting these absurd notions and information . . . . it is US!
    That's why I said the water should simply be analyzed (for the snow.)

    Here's what you are ignoring: NO scientists and NO government agency are coming forward to explain what they decided to do (without asking OR informing us.) And, done in complete secrecy, using (what appears to be COINTEL-PRO type) disinformation campaigns to try to pretend that what we are seeing are really "persistent contrails" - but we are supposed to just laugh that off and not form guesses as to what the hell they are realy doing. Especially considering the link between Alzheimer's and aluminum. Especially considering the link between Monsanto patented seeds to withstand aluminum (that is toxic, in quantity, in all plants.)

    You really think it is fair to dismiss everyone's conjecture as being tinfoil hatted kooks, when there is official SECRECY surrounding the existence of chemtrail spraying? Oh, and are you aware of the US government/military spraying radioactive isotopes and cadmium over people? Well, some of the people guessing that chemtrails could be nefarious are certainly aware that the US government/military are happy to use unsuspecting populations as Guinea pigs.
    ...

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    Who do you think the people are that created “What on Earth are They Spraying”? These people have a meme to spread . . . these people have an agenda . . . these people force data to reinforce what they what to say and create.
    I really don't know what to say to this. So, YOUR scientists (hidden and secret) are truthful, and the scientists interviewed for that movie are liars. Wow.

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    I will stand by my statement that there are no massive amount of nano laden (robot thingies) ...
    Not sure why you're addressing this to me. I never said these tiny particles are robotic. I have seen an article where someone claimed it to be so, but the vast, vast majority of posts I have seen on this forum are not focused on nano-robots. It adds some drama to your argument, but is irrelevant. I didn't say we are breathing nano-bots, (microscopic robots), I said we are breathing aluminum and barium.

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    ...I am sick and angry and frustrated of being fed lies and misinformation from ALL damn sources. Including the alternative media and New Age religion.

    What I have found from samples from my Kansas farm and the samples here in no way supports what we are being told. Are there pollutants? Yes! Is there (sometimes) barium and aluminum present? Yes!

    But keep in mind that barium and aluminum are also NATURALLY occurring metals. ...
    I don't believe in the "new age" memes you are blending into a response to me.

    Yes, aluminum is a naturally occurring element. However, naturally occurring aluminum is in the form of compounds, not elemental aluminum (and - I believe - is not typically found in nature as simple aluminum oxide either.) The naturally occurring aluminum is in more complex compounds, and those compounds require a great amount of energy to extract the elemental aluminum. Elemental aluminum is not blowing around ANYWHERE ON EARTH, not even downwind of a bauxite mine. Any elemental aluminum and (I believe) pure aluminum oxide found in the atmosphere is refined by humans and deliberately put into the atmosphere in chemtrails.

    So, you are wrong in your assertion: "barium and aluminum are also NATURALLY occurring metals. " because they do not naturally occur in a refined, purified state as have been collected by soil scientists. That is UNnatural aluminum.

    If you are not finding massive amounts of aluminum in the top 1/4" of soil you are collecting, then I have to wonder about your collecting technique. Credentialed scientists who study soil samples and analyze them for a living have stated - on the record - that aluminum is as high as 6000 times higher than background (scientific control.) You cannot gloss over that - unless you are declaring that they are liars, and/or that your technique for sampling particulate fallout is more accurate than scientists who do this for a living. You can say you agree with geoengineering and that you trust the (hidden) scientists that have made the decision to spray metals in the air, but you cannot say the (refined/unnatural) metals are not there.
    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    I have never found little nano (robot thingies) or anything that resembled ‘man made’ microscopic organisms/particles.
    The "robot thingies" is a strawman argument. "Nano" means "billionth" and "nano particle" is shorthand for tiny particles. (I'm not sure all chemtrail sprayed particles are really sub-micron, I doubt it.) Please don't inject "robot thingies" into a reply to me. I'm not talking about robots, I'm talking about tiny sprayed particles (barium and aluminum, specifically) that are refined metals of micron or sub-micron size, deliberately sprayed from chemtrailing jets.

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    But I am fairly confident that our scientist across our planet and researchers will find a way to effectively and safely control our weather.
    Well, that's lovely for you. Know that many people do not have this blind faith in a group of secret, hidden, (presumed) scientists who are presumably working on weather modification for presumably non-military purposes. How is your blind faith different than a "new age" person's blind faith?

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    So, I am not saying and never have said they are not geoengineering . . . I AM saying they are geoengineering for a very different reason other than ‘they’ are killing us and enslaving us and performing mass blood rituals or some other satanic/reptilian blood right rituals . . .
    ...

    Geoengineering is taking place in order for us TO survive ...

    Geoengineering is taking place (rapidly now) in order for humanity not to be knocked back into another stone age or ice age.
    ...
    ...

    Breathe the damn air . . it is not killing us . ...

    When you show me a nano-particulate that you have pulled/sampled out of the air the very air you are breathing then I will be right there with you.

    Regarding the rest of your post I will end in saying I have never said anything about benevolent aliens or elite. I have never said that what they are doing to bring about the NWO or whatever it will be called, is benevolent or evil. This notion has been put on me by you (Dennis) and many others.

    ...


    I have been burned and deeply disillusioned by past memes on Avalon and the alternative/ new age world, as well as, the ‘rat race’ or world created by ‘them’.

    This new meme (last year or so) on Avalon and other alternative sources, I feel strongly is more destructive and will have even farther reaching negative impacts for many years to come than some of the others. I think this new meme is a foundation being built for what I am waiting and watching . . . this too will come to light.

    One thing that I can always rely on and therefore trust is there will be a broad spread of dualistic polarized thinking and believing and behaving . . such as . . alternative/new age (supposedly good guys) and elite controllers (supposedly bad guys) . . .and the real truth is somewhere in the balanced in-between.

    Good guys. Bad Guys. Benevolent. Evil. . . . not going there . . not yet . . . I can wait and watch ...
    I'm getting weary of going point by point, and having others ideas blended with what I wrote (which ends up being a strawman argument for me - because I didn't bring it up.)

    So, you're comfortable with some hidden, unnamed, (supposed) scientists somewhere behind closed doors making a determination to spray metals in the air? (And yes, there is an ENORMOUS amount.) I'm not. Actually, how do we know there are ANY geoengineering scientists behind the spraying? What if they are scientists, but physicists rather than biologists, for example? Don't you think physicists might fix one problem and create ten more (as they did with nuclear energy.) For example, maybe the physicists could figure out a way to reflect back some of the sunlight, but they were total idiots when it came to understanding the biological needs of plankton? Why are you so trusting that they know what they are doing? You think Gaia's systems are all figured out by scientists? Any scientists? Any humans? Really? I don't. Only an arrogant idiot "scientist" would believe they could meddle with weather by spraying metals and/or heating sections of the ionosphere without negative consequences. And only someone terribly naive could trust them - even IF their motives were 100% altruistic. So, you don't believe in "new age" memes, but you go hook, line, and sinker for "chemtrail" spraying, assuming that it is not only altruistic geoengineering, but also assuming that these hidden scientists understand Earth's/Gaia's processes and systems. You believe. Not based on logic, because the programs are officially secret - you and I DO NOT have the data to form an intelligent conclusion - the scientists have never laid out their case, nor explained how this is is not creating more problems than whatever they are addressing (if indeed it is directed by client scientists and not militaristic use of physics - we do not actually know.) We have no way to ascertain motive or efficacy. So, when you declare you believe in them, I don't think you are in a position to make fun of people that believe other ideas.

    Rattlesnakes come out in the sun to warm themselves, and move to the shade to cool down. They are venomous. The venom is toxic and necroses tissue. I have observed perhaps 100 rattlesnakes, have caught and released a couple dozen, and the last creature I ever killed and ate (35 years ago) was a rattlesnake. I have a pretty good idea of what rattlesnakes are, how they act, and what to expect.

    I will be 60 years old soon. I have witnessed many things that "The Elite"/"the Global Rulers"/international bankers/multinational corporations and the US government that is under their control, have done. They have shown over and over and over that they are greed-based, power-hungry, sociopathic/psychopathic and will literally do anything up to and including genocide and ecocide to get what they want. I don't trust them, and I would be a complete idiot to trust them. I trust rattlesnakes, but not these people.

    My response is logical, not emotional. It is not founded on belief. Your misplaced trust of demonstrably extremely untrustworthy people shows amazing naivete, which appears to be a severe knee-jerk reaction to the most outlandish new-age memes, not a well-reasoned response. Your personal response to yourself is one thing - however, handing out rose-colored glasses is malpractice.

    Aluminum is a neurotoxin. It was yesterday, and it will be tomorrow...and probably 1000 generations from now. We're not adapting to this neurotoxin, we're being poisoned by it - whether it is collateral damage from well-meaning hidden "scientists" or whether it always had a nefarious purpose. Our nerves don't care what thought was behind releasing the neurotoxin.

    Dennis


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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Dennis, bravo and amen!!!

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)

    And you know what??? The alternative community is doing this . . . . NOT ‘them’ . . . .I see thread after thread after thread popping up with this absurd meme that we are slaves of reptile/archon controlled super elite.
    There isn't really too much to add to Dennis's response to your post (I have to agree almost entirely with his observations), but in regard to this specific statement I believe you may be misinterpreting the so-called slavery "meme" you find popping up over and over on this forum and elsewhere. If we have no choice or say and are subject to the geo-engineering agenda (for good, evil, or indifference) as livestock are subject to the will of the farmer (I thought you might appreciate the analogy) it matters not what the agenda is, be it to enslave or to liberate. The relationship, by definition, describes a form of bondage between master and slave.

    I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that the interests behind geo-engineering are specifically waging a campaign to enslave the masses (although I wouldn't rule it out); I believe this may be the point you are making, but if we have no choice and are subject to their designs on us, whatever the agenda may be, that is a form of slavery.

    This isn't fear mongering; this is simply stating the reality of the social structure.
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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    Quote Posted by bruno dante (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Damien Toner (here)

    This is insane, disgusting and sad.
    Yes, it is. It's really quite hard to understand.

    Either there's real insanity at work here, or real evil, or maybe both. I have to say, for a while now I've had it niggling at the back of my mind that what's afoot may be to offer up the entirety of Planet Earth as some kind of ultimate blood sacrifice.
    And that's just it, isn't it? How does one separate the truly ignorant from those who have a deliberate agenda? I suppose in the end it doesn't really matter.

    The earth as one big sacrifice? It's an interesting theory, one I haven't heard yet. But if that were the case, wouldn't it be much easier to simply nuke the place? Or flood it? Why bother with all the pageantry of weather manipulation, gmo's, chemtrails etc? Seems a lot of unnecessary work.

    Not sure. Thinking out loud here...
    I agree with you bruno dante,

    I feel statements such as these (ultimate blood sacrifice on a planetary scale) are irresponsible and create deep seated fear and apathy.

    This sort of meme makes absolutely no sense to me.

    If the planet is being geoengineered to make it more habitable for this evil reptilian race then why all the hoopla? If this is true then wouldn’t they would simply come in kill all us humans in one big massive blood bath and use their more advanced technology to ‘fix the planet’ to their liking and comfort?

    Why put up with us measly humans and our paltry inferior technology inhabiting a planet that they want to claim as their own? Seriously if this demented advanced evil alien race existed they would view us the way most view a hill of ants. They would have no qualms eliminating what they would see as a mere nuisance.
    As far as any outside entity that desires this world for it's own use, they must get US to Destroy Ourselves. For them to kill us off en-mass outright would Violate Universal Law, and do them far more harm in the long run. They're stupid, but they're not dumb.

    That said, I still firmly believe that what we are seeing here is a desire by a small elite group to reduce the overall population level to a 'controllable number' (shades of the Georgia Guide stones, yes?), while still trying to limit the Earth's internal overheating from the increased level of Cosmic Radiation (CR) due to a weakening of both the Sun's and Earth's magnetic fields, as well as the loss of flaring by the Sun.

    Normally, the Sun's flaring expands Earth's atmosphere and assists in limiting CR, but without this, the Earth's atmosphere becomes thinner. Under normal conditions, the thinner atmosphere is able to radiate the excess heat created by the increased CR more rapidly, thus naturally cooling the Earth.

    Again, a self-correcting system.

    However, with this climate engineering, they are limiting the influx (to a degree) of the CR, but this reflection works Both Ways, and thus also reflects the Earth's internally produced infrared radiation. Thus, the surface expels the heat, but it's trapped below the 'aluminum cloud cover', causing extreme pressure differentials which cause the weather, which they then manipulate using the HARRP arrays (as well as the Doppler and Next-Rad arrays), which are stationed all around the northern hemisphere, and are used to control the jet stream and local pressure cells via pulsed beams which can control and direct these pressure differentials. I suspect that "they' hope to keep the Earth around long enough to rule it for a little while longer, perhaps in conjunction with their 'non-local friends'.

    If you ask me... it sounds like a 'deal with the Devil', and it may just backfire on them in a Big Way...

    By the same token, Humanity, as a People, may be able to 'wake up' and Unify soon enough to break this 'deal'.

    I remain optimistic as to the outcome.

    In Unity, Peace and Love
    Last edited by Kindred; 12th February 2014 at 04:19.
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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    According to some "contactees", the so-called reptilian race once waged a war throughout the universe that lasted for millions of years. When this war was being waged, sometimes if they didn't like you, they wouldn't wipe out your planet, they would wipe out your sun. Then yours and every other planet in the system was destroyed. Universal Law was not enough to keep them from doing it. They did it. Supposedly a federation of races and nations/planets in opposition to this race was finally able to negotiate a peace. (If you believe in "outside entities" and their folklore.)

    The point is: they had to be resisted. Relying on their respect for the free will of others is probably not a recommended tactic. :-)

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Yeah Dennis. . . I'm done and tired of you breaking my posts down point by point too and rewriting and reinterpreting my overall point. . . Not to mention pigeon holing into someone and something I am not.

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)

    But keep in mind that barium and aluminum are also NATURALLY occurring metals. They both are on the ‘periodic table of elements” . . . .remember your basic chemistry? It is essential we have these metals present in our soil and it is NATURAL that they are present.
    An extremely unintelligent comment. It strongly suggests you have NOT watched the video. (Please do this!)

    Arsenic and Belladonna also occur naturally. It depends what you do with them, and why.

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Naturally occurring aluminum is there in high levels, yes, but it is atomically bound, it is not 'bio-available'.

    Quote Aluminium metal is so chemically reactive that native specimens are rare and limited to extreme reducing environments. Instead, it is found combined in over 270 different minerals.[5] The chief ore of aluminium is bauxite.
    When it is refined and purified, it is then bioavailable, and ready to atomically bind. And then, it can ~and does~ harm the human body.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Climate Engineering, Weather Warfare, and the Collapse of Civilization

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    Going Global and becoming Unified will be a very good thing for our planet and our solar system it is just getting there will be absolutely horrible . . . this will take 25+ years . . . . all religion . . all financial constructs . . . all government and national leaderships and control factions have to be dissolved and eliminated before the One Government can be established . . . and this will create massive chaos.

    If we as a group and as individuals can come to grip with this Truth then we as groups and individuals can soften this transition. I am doing this and have been for many years now . . .creating safe harbors and places while we go through these many years(25+) of darkness and difficulty. This is my mission and why I am at this place and at this time.
    Going global as you say "could" possibly be a good thing maybe, but the other side of that coin is once the World is under the control of one Gov
    what's to stop another Hitler or Bush for that matter, because all being under the control of one Gov who is there to stand in the way?
    As for the Chemtrailing thing i do agree in the possibility of it being for our benifet
    but with the track record of the current western governments do you really beleive it likely?
    I don't personally but as i said it's possible.
    Last edited by Paul; 12th February 2014 at 16:18. Reason: fix quote nesting

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