+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 3
Results 41 to 60 of 60

Thread: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

  1. Link to Post #41
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    28th March 2010
    Posts
    12,054
    Thanks
    28,586
    Thanked 52,630 times in 10,590 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    In Dark Journalist's most recent talk, this one with Egyptologist Carmen Boulter
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HX_riyPF4
    ...starting at 30 minutes in, they begin to discuss the civilization of Atlantis where, Carmen says, "if it wasn't good for everybody, it wasn't good at all".
    She is attempting in her new 5 part documentary series "The New Atlantis" to demonstrate how the Atlantean culture really was based on and operated under that philosophy, and how that differs from "the catastrophe that we have now".
    They agree that researchers cannot afford to neglect the quest to discover the truth about Atlantis, apart from myths and misinformation, because our own times are so different and dysfunctional in comparison.
    There is lots of information available about it from ancient artifacts and buried memories, but we haven't discovered how to interpret it as yet.
    Some of the more specific statements Carmen makes about Atlantean culture is that there was no money, no discrimination, no patriarchy, and narcissists were not tolerated, but were isolated until they were cured.
    (I'm still listening, but will add more notes if it is relevant to this discussion.)
    Last edited by onawah; 18th February 2020 at 19:55.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to onawah For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (26th February 2020)

  3. Link to Post #42
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Vladimir Lenin said, "The goal of socialism is communism." So it's kind of an academic question.
    A troop of monkeys and a pod of dolphins are two examples of some form of "socialism" - far predating humans. Proto-humans gathering together in a clan is an example of socialism. Most human families on Earth operate under a form of "socialism", and it is likely the major reason for the proliferation and survival of humans - the species with the longest period of helplessness/ability to survive alone. Even carnivorous lone-hunter animals do not eat the entire kill of prey, but rather socially share the kill with their family unit.

    It's a word that has obviously been turned upside-down and inside-out by narrative control managers, purposely. (And, obviously, they are very good at their job of Orwellian Doublespeak. Just think of the implication that a worldwide online gathering spot for people who believe they are awake and discerning - Project Avalon - has a huge percentage of members that have accepted the narrative control managers re-branding and redefining of the word "socialism" - to mean the opposite of what it actually is.)

    Why do you think those in control of the narrative have demonized the word "socialism" and have obscured and flipped its actual meaning? Might Occam's Razor apply here - that the oligarchs' ownership of everything that had once been shared would make any concept, any ideology of sharing into their worst nightmare? Who stands to lose if sharing becomes a cornerstone of accepted ideology?

    Marx and Lenin have taken their turn at re-programming the word, for their use.

    The word "apples" really does mean apples, no matter how many times some narrative control manager insists that it means "oranges." Words really do have meanings, no matter what some narrative control manager gets you to believe. Enjoy that orange-colored citrus fruit and call it an apple if you want to, but only your mind was altered, not reality.


  4. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Baby Steps (18th February 2020), Frank V (19th February 2020), haroldsails (27th February 2020), Hym (19th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), Ken (18th February 2020), lloyds (21st February 2020), onawah (18th February 2020), Wind (18th February 2020)

  5. Link to Post #43
    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2017
    Posts
    982
    Thanks
    273
    Thanked 3,779 times in 856 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Vladimir Lenin said, "The goal of socialism is communism." So it's kind of an academic question.
    That was his interpretation of Karl Marx' philosophy. What makes you think it would have been a correct one?
    History bears him out. And I would add "and communism soon becomes indistinguishable from fascism" (ask a Russian or Chinese).

    Kris Kristofferson "When you're headin' for the border, Lord, you're bound to cross the line."
    Last edited by TomKat; 18th February 2020 at 21:36.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TomKat For This Post:

    Hym (19th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020)

  7. Link to Post #44
    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2017
    Posts
    982
    Thanks
    273
    Thanked 3,779 times in 856 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Vladimir Lenin said, "The goal of socialism is communism." So it's kind of an academic question.
    A troop of monkeys and a pod of dolphins are two examples of some form of "socialism" - far predating humans. Proto-humans gathering together in a clan is an example of socialism. Most human families on Earth operate under a form of "socialism", and it is likely the major reason for the proliferation and survival of humans - the species with the longest period of helplessness/ability to survive alone. Even carnivorous lone-hunter animals do not eat the entire kill of prey, but rather socially share the kill with their family unit.
    Yes, a family is a kind of socialism. Authoritarian and undemocratic. Forget John Locke and generations of political theory. Forget individual dignity and freedom. Expand "family" out to 300 million people. Put the power hungry sociopaths and authoritarian do-gooders at the top. Leave everyone else to fight over their table scraps. It was a great system until it went broke in 1989. Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TomKat For This Post:

    Hym (19th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), Sammy (26th February 2020)

  9. Link to Post #45
    United States Avalon Member johnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th January 2011
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    1,210
    Thanks
    8,460
    Thanked 6,316 times in 1,112 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Any "ism" taken too far becomes a fascism as far as I understand things.
    Fascism can be interpreted as rule of law, that seems to be it's original aim.

    However increase the level of coercion, and limit personal choice too far and you get

    Nazi Germany type fascism, the same is true of capitalism, socialism, democracy, etc.
    I was hesitant to include democracy at first but as I thought further about it I found that
    giving everyone a say on everything is impossible, and too much of this, strangles commerce, and makes the system very vulnerable to covert control. Imagine an app where every vote in congress has to be
    voted on by every citizen, in that system whoever has the best hacking system would win!, as well as slow down the process considerably.

    All these things are words, and there are as many definitions of these words as there are people.
    They are symbols that point to pretty nebulous and mercurial objects. In the words of the immortal "Greybeard"
    of "Enlightenment and related matters" fame, the finger that points to the moon is not the moon.
    Each of these words that describe how to manage human affairs on a large scale point to a certain set of tools.
    The nature of the job of managing the affairs of nations, changes over time so this calls for a very wide selection of tools to be made as freely available as possible.


    John
    Last edited by johnf; 19th February 2020 at 01:29.
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to johnf For This Post:

    Hym (19th February 2020)

  11. Link to Post #46
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Vladimir Lenin said, "The goal of socialism is communism." So it's kind of an academic question.
    A troop of monkeys and a pod of dolphins are two examples of some form of "socialism" - far predating humans. Proto-humans gathering together in a clan is an example of socialism. Most human families on Earth operate under a form of "socialism", and it is likely the major reason for the proliferation and survival of humans - the species with the longest period of helplessness/ability to survive alone. Even carnivorous lone-hunter animals do not eat the entire kill of prey, but rather socially share the kill with their family unit.
    Yes, a family is a kind of socialism. Authoritarian and undemocratic. Forget John Locke and generations of political theory. Forget individual dignity and freedom. Expand "family" out to 300 million people. Put the power hungry sociopaths and authoritarian do-gooders at the top. Leave everyone else to fight over their table scraps. It was a great system until it went broke in 1989. Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
    hahahahaha love it! Pretzel logic and a quote from the ruling class!

    We're getting closer and closer to the end of the 'Monopoly' game, the ruling overlords have appropriated all the land and resources, a small cluster of ruling families have accumulated all the wealth, and 'ol Margo is worried about the ruling overlords running out of money! Those poor bastards! hahahahaha It's a hilarious quote, and should be cross-posted to the "laugh once a day" thread. I know I got a good chuckle.


  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Frank V (19th February 2020), Hym (19th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), onawah (19th February 2020), Wind (19th February 2020)

  13. Link to Post #47
    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2017
    Posts
    982
    Thanks
    273
    Thanked 3,779 times in 856 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Vladimir Lenin said, "The goal of socialism is communism." So it's kind of an academic question.
    A troop of monkeys and a pod of dolphins are two examples of some form of "socialism" - far predating humans. Proto-humans gathering together in a clan is an example of socialism. Most human families on Earth operate under a form of "socialism", and it is likely the major reason for the proliferation and survival of humans - the species with the longest period of helplessness/ability to survive alone. Even carnivorous lone-hunter animals do not eat the entire kill of prey, but rather socially share the kill with their family unit.
    Yes, a family is a kind of socialism. Authoritarian and undemocratic. Forget John Locke and generations of political theory. Forget individual dignity and freedom. Expand "family" out to 300 million people. Put the power hungry sociopaths and authoritarian do-gooders at the top. Leave everyone else to fight over their table scraps. It was a great system until it went broke in 1989. Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
    hahahahaha love it! Pretzel logic and a quote from the ruling class!

    We're getting closer and closer to the end of the 'Monopoly' game, the ruling overlords have appropriated all the land and resources, a small cluster of ruling families have accumulated all the wealth, and 'ol Margo is worried about the ruling overlords running out of money! Those poor bastards! hahahahaha It's a hilarious quote, and should be cross-posted to the "laugh once a day" thread. I know I got a good chuckle.
    You look old enough to remember when Gorbachev and his wife came to the US in the mid-80s and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of the people's money buying clothes on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TomKat For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (20th February 2020), Hym (19th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020)

  15. Link to Post #48
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    ...

    You look old enough to remember when Gorbachev and his wife came to the US in the mid-80s and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of the people's money buying clothes on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.
    (from post #35 in this thread) "The USSR was never socialist for one minute, and China is not and never was actually communist - they use those words improperly, purposely, to hide the real form of totalitarian state that was/is actually practiced."

    If you honestly want to figure out what I'm talking about, maybe you need to think of the hyphenated word "citizen-centric" as opposed to "corporate-centric", and think in terms of what every living being needs to survive, and think of sharing that. Start with the air. Who owns the air? Do you and I, or do a handful of rich assholes? Next, go to potable fresh water: who's resource is it anyway? Stop thinking just of money and failed (probably mostly designed to fail) so-called "socialist" implementations of monetary relief.

    When you look at land, it becomes even more obvious. Who owns the land you and I are on? (And, how about the mineral rights?) Chase the deed back through all the hands it passed through to the original person who made a declaration, "this is MY land!", and removed it from the commons. When I got to this planet (this time), about 66 years ago, every piece of valuable (arable, homestead-able, resource-rich, with accessable water) land on Earth was already deeded to someone. I'll bet the same is true for you. I don't know doodly squat about the Canadian constitution (or if you have one - aren't you controlled by an archaic monarchy across the pond?), but I can tell you that the US constitution was written by white-skinned male landowners, to codify that they possessed the land. That "all men are created equal" line isn't in the US Constitution, (just in the Declaration of Independence "preamble" which holds no legal power, deliberately) either in word or in spirit. I'm not really sure how we (collectively) should handle the land issue, but I do know that 8 billion people ceding control over all valuable land to the ultra-rich and their descendants, and allowing them to rent it back to us isn't the solution.
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 19th February 2020 at 04:07.


  16. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Frank V (19th February 2020), Franny (21st February 2020), haroldsails (27th February 2020), Hym (19th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), lloyds (21st February 2020), onawah (19th February 2020), Wind (19th February 2020)

  17. Link to Post #49
    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2017
    Posts
    982
    Thanks
    273
    Thanked 3,779 times in 856 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    ...

    You look old enough to remember when Gorbachev and his wife came to the US in the mid-80s and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of the people's money buying clothes on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.
    (from post #35 in this thread) "The USSR was never socialist for one minute, and China is not and never was actually communist - they use those words improperly, purposely, to hide the real form of totalitarian state that was/is actually practiced."
    You traffic in ideals, but in the real world, Communism + human nature = unfathomable tyranny.
    To quote Chris Matthews, "You know, I have my own views of the word 'socialist,'" Matthews said. "They go back to the early 1950s. I have an attitude about them. I remember the Cold War. I have an attitude towards Castro. I believe if Castro and the Reds had won the Cold War, there would have been executions in Central Park, and I might’ve been one of the ones getting executed, and certain other people would be there cheering, OK? So, I have a problem with people who took the other side."

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to TomKat For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (20th February 2020)

  19. Link to Post #50
    Avalon Member Satori's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th May 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1,271
    Thanks
    5,242
    Thanked 8,484 times in 1,239 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    There is no difference, but in degree. By design, socialism portends communism. Which is a totalitarian form of collectivism. Fascist in many ways even.
    To quote from None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham, circa 1972:

    "[Karl] Marx went on to state that when the dictatorship of the proletariat had accomplished these three things [elimination of rights to private property, dissolution of the family unit and destruction of religion] throughout the world, and after some undetermined length of time (as you can imagine, he was very vague on this point), the all powerful state would miraculously wither away and state socialism would give way to Communism. You wouldn't need any government at all. Everything would be peace, sweetness and light and everybody would live happily ever after. But first, all Communists must first work to establish SOCIALISM.

    ***

    "Socialism would be the bait...the excuse to establish the dictatorship. Since dictatorship is hard to sell in idealistic terms, the idea had to be added that the dictatorship was just a temporary necessity and would soon dissolve of its own accord. You really have to be naive to swallow that, but millions do.

    "The drive to establish SOCIALISM, not Communism, is at the core of everything the Communists and the Insiders do. Marx and all of his successors in the Communist movement have ordered their followers to work on building SOCIALISM. If you go to hear an official Communist speaker, he never mentions Communism. He will speak only of the struggle to complete the socialization of America. If you go to a Communist bookstore you will find all of their literature pushes this theme. It does not call for the establishment of Communism, but SOCIALISM." pp. 13-14 (all emphasis in original)

    On a related note, the authors also stated that:

    "If you want a national monopoly, you must control a national socialist government. If you want a worldwide monopoly, you must control a world socialist government." p. 19. And, also: "If you wish to establish national monopolies, you must control national governments. If you wish to establish international monopolies or cartels, you must control a world government." p. 48

    Hence, a reasonable conclusion can be drawn that: Socialism portends communism, the goal of which is communism at the world level by means of control of national and international governments. That is the program developed and being carried out by the socialist/communist movement.



    "

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Satori For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (20th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), TomKat (19th February 2020)

  21. Link to Post #51
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    TomKat and Satori, can you see why I say that the word "socialism" is virtually meaningless now?

    Can you take a step deeper than semantics (and comparisons using totalitarian regimes pretending to be "socialist"), and look at the reality that "the commons", which should be the birthright of all humans, has been stolen from 7.999 billion people, and into the hands of 0.001 billion people (the global financial "elite.") Call it, "the rest of us, ism", if need be. I'm not defending Marx, I'm defending the rest of humanity besides the financial elite, and saying we have been robbed, and that we deserve to share what what has been stolen from us.


  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Baby Steps (19th February 2020), Frank V (19th February 2020), Franny (21st February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), seko (19th February 2020)

  23. Link to Post #52
    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2017
    Posts
    982
    Thanks
    273
    Thanked 3,779 times in 856 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    TomKat and Satori, can you see why I say that the word "socialism" is virtually meaningless now?

    Can you take a step deeper than semantics (and comparisons using totalitarian regimes pretending to be "socialist"), and look at the reality that "the commons", which should be the birthright of all humans, has been stolen from 7.999 billion people, and into the hands of 0.001 billion people (the global financial "elite.") Call it, "the rest of us, ism", if need be. I'm not defending Marx, I'm defending the rest of humanity besides the financial elite, and saying we have been robbed, and that we deserve to share what what has been stolen from us.
    Totalitarian regimes pretending to be socialist vs. what? Utopian ideals pretending to be possible?
    Yes the Commons are commonly stolen, and it doesn't matter whether the theft is done in the name of socialism, communism, capitalism or fascism.

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TomKat For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (20th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), RogeRio (21st February 2020)

  25. Link to Post #53
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    TomKat and Satori, can you see why I say that the word "socialism" is virtually meaningless now?

    Can you take a step deeper than semantics (and comparisons using totalitarian regimes pretending to be "socialist"), and look at the reality that "the commons", which should be the birthright of all humans, has been stolen from 7.999 billion people, and into the hands of 0.001 billion people (the global financial "elite.") Call it, "the rest of us, ism", if need be. I'm not defending Marx, I'm defending the rest of humanity besides the financial elite, and saying we have been robbed, and that we deserve to share what what has been stolen from us.
    Totalitarian regimes pretending to be socialist vs. what? Utopian ideals pretending to be possible?
    Yes the Commons are commonly stolen, and it doesn't matter whether the theft is done in the name of socialism, communism, capitalism or fascism.
    Good. I'm glad to see that you recognize that there is (was) a commons, and that it has been stolen - even if we cannot agree on what to call some sort of movement or ideology for 99.999% of humans to take back the commons.


  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    johnf (20th February 2020), RogeRio (21st February 2020)

  27. Link to Post #54
    Avalon Member Satori's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th May 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1,271
    Thanks
    5,242
    Thanked 8,484 times in 1,239 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    TomKat and Satori, can you see why I say that the word "socialism" is virtually meaningless now?

    Can you take a step deeper than semantics (and comparisons using totalitarian regimes pretending to be "socialist"), and look at the reality that "the commons", which should be the birthright of all humans, has been stolen from 7.999 billion people, and into the hands of 0.001 billion people (the global financial "elite.") Call it, "the rest of us, ism", if need be. I'm not defending Marx, I'm defending the rest of humanity besides the financial elite, and saying we have been robbed, and that we deserve to share what what has been stolen from us.
    Hmm.

    I did not mean to hit a nerve and I was not directing my post to anyone in particular. I am no fan of Marx by any means. My post was written in response to the title of this thread and to follow up on a point with some quotes from a book that many people have found insightful and important.

    Personally I do not put any weight on isms of any variety, save perhaps individualism.

    The commons, as I understand your meaning DL, I agree it has been lost, or more accurately, stolen. The degree to which the “commoners” bear any responsibility for this is worth pondering.

  28. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Satori For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (20th February 2020), johnf (20th February 2020), RogeRio (21st February 2020), Sammy (26th February 2020)

  29. Link to Post #55
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    I wonder how many members of Avalon have seen this film:

    The Power Principle
    Source: watch free at: http://metanoia-films.org/the-power-principle/

    If you have not, or have not in a while, I highly recommend it as an exposé of US foreign policy in general ("patriots", take note, so you can figure out just exactly what policies of the US government you hinge patriotism upon), and a great exposé of how the USA has deliberately assigned a false label of "communist!" to heads of state who were trying to protect their countries from corporate exploitation and theft - all orchestrated to take over sovereign foreign governments for US corporate gain.

    It's a truly sobering look at US foreign policy, and you'll never be able to see the word "communist" again without being savvy to the propaganda that has been performed by oligarchs and their agents to manipulate public perception.

    A conclusion that I don't see in the movie is that the greatest fear of the oligarchs (the few who want to possess and control the Earth) is any ideology with "sharing" as a foundational tenet. Think about that concept.


  30. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Frank V (21st February 2020), Franny (21st February 2020), lloyds (21st February 2020), rainsong (21st February 2020), Satori (21st February 2020)

  31. Link to Post #56
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Be sure to watch part II and part III of The Power Principle. (link in previous post.)
    Part II is focused on Propaganda.
    Part III is subtitled "Apocalypse."

    Probably most of us have been exposed to tidbits of what this documentary assembles together and exposes, but (just like the general populace has been exposed to actual tidbits of the truth about 9/11, and has had those bits and pieces coated with subsequent propaganda like the ruling elite's microphages, and neutralized), you probably need to fortify your mind with a comprehensive dose of the truth. Do NOT watch this documentary (and do NOT read Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History of the United States") if you want to hold on to the engineered perception from the propagandists and just ignorantly accept and repeat the lies you were fed as truth. The truth is uncomfortable. Don't seek the truth if you know you prefer the comfortable lies and being part of the matrix.


  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Frank V (22nd February 2020), Franny (21st February 2020)

  33. Link to Post #57
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    28th March 2010
    Posts
    12,054
    Thanks
    28,586
    Thanked 52,630 times in 10,590 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Sanders & Socialism: Debate Between Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman & Socialist Economist Richard Wolff
    DemocracyNow
    Feb 24, 2020

    Democracy Now!

    "As Bernie Sanders’s runaway win in Nevada cements his position as the front-runner for the Democratic nomination, the Democratic Party establishment and much of the mainstream media are openly expressing concern about a self-described democratic socialist leading the presidential ticket. His opponents have also attacked his ambitious agenda. Last week during the primary debate in Las Vegas, Bernie Sanders addressed misconceptions about socialism. Invoking the words of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Sanders decried what he called “socialism for the very rich, rugged individualism for the poor.”

    For more, we host a debate on Bernie Sanders and democratic socialism, featuring two well-known economists. Paul Krugman is a New York Times op-ed columnist and author of many books, including his latest, “Arguing with Zombies: Economics, Politics, and the Fight for a Better Future.” One of his recent columns is headlined “Bernie Sanders Isn’t a Socialist.” Richard Wolff is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and visiting professor at The New School. He is the founder of Democracy at Work and hosts the weekly national television and radio program “Economic Update.” He’s the author of several books, including “Understanding Socialism.” "



    (I'm not sure if this will add anything to the discussion, but if nothing else, it may highlight some misconceptions....)
    Last edited by onawah; 25th February 2020 at 05:47.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to onawah For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (25th February 2020), Frank V (25th February 2020)

  35. Link to Post #58
    Denmark Avalon Member
    Join Date
    6th August 2018
    Location
    Denmark
    Age
    30
    Posts
    28
    Thanks
    47
    Thanked 142 times in 26 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Having no real idea, but giving an uneducated answer and living in Denmark, I'd say that the democracy here has aspects of socialism (which I really don't mind - I'm getting paid to study as I'm writing this.) I really enjoy the safety net social welfare, social education etc. provides. I think it's fascinating to listen to the debates at this moment, as I can totally understand that many find it unfair to pay for other peoples' disadvantages/accidents/educations. I just enjoy the heck out of living in it. When all is said and done; other people's (right) education and welfare makes life better for everyone involved - even if it's out of everybody's pocket.
    Last edited by Corfitz; 25th February 2020 at 08:30.

  36. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Corfitz For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (25th February 2020), Frank V (25th February 2020), onawah (25th February 2020), Wind (25th February 2020)

  37. Link to Post #59
    Sweden Avalon Member
    Join Date
    9th April 2011
    Age
    32
    Posts
    185
    Thanks
    209
    Thanked 648 times in 151 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    Communism = Anarchy
    Socialism = Elite own you (the slave)

    I see if that with Communism will return the age when there where no nations and most humans lived quite simple lives struggling to live. All this nice tech we have today will need to go away. The nice happy ending is kinda hard to achieve.
    Socialism is the devil in literal form. Speaking all the good and sweet promises but having your soul in ownership. As you see the two are at odds with each other and why they don't play along in reality. They do often team up in various ways to further their both wills. They try to get rid of each other whenever they get a larger hand in power and other enemies are gone.

    What I see is only the idiots in society that want to do no real work themselves choose these options. They hope some other will provide them like they are kings. Problem as mentioned above. Some other will not provide for you in the end. There is no incentive if your labour is stolen and you left with nothing but the bear of the work given.
    Communism only works in a situation of abundance. It dies the moment there is not enough to give or take. People will fight over the left over scraps in the end. Smarter people will have left it all long ago seeing where it's heading.
    Human emotions are a real thing, selfishness is real to never go away. Look at children. You are working against nature to hope they aren't selfish in the end. Greed will take over. You can't kill and hope to brainwash people for all eternity. All these idealized systems are unreal. None will happen and none will prevail. We shift from one to another with time struggling with whatever system works for the time at hand.
    All needs work... WORK! Any system that promotes the idea that you don't need to work to receive is doomed to fail. Too many will get lazy and choose to fool around given the choice.
    Communism and Socialism promises a world where you and I are supposed to live like Kings and Queens... How does that work when most do nothing?
    And looking at the problems it would incur. The resources the materials the labour. Kings and Queens love to overreach and when bored get quite devilish in "morals" coming up with all kinds of nastiness.
    You promote a world where everyone behaves like the "capitalist elite" you vilify but it's your ideal. You want it for yourself. Otherwise you want to strip it from those who have it when you can't have it. A child.

    Look where is "democratic socialism" *working*?
    Only in the Northern Countries. Why? We are efficient and work our asses off to have what we have! All the *newcomers* around the world in the southern regions... Have they worked? All I see is people demanding something for free, gimme that! and that! No work to be seen for half the world over. They want to STEAL! ROBBERY AND MURDER! Easy. Everything has to be easy. Why work? Just give me money??? Why Money? it will not give you food if it's not made somewhere and someone is willing to exchange for that "fiat" you demanded. Never work. Only money or things. When you print and never make anything else, you starve!

    Socialism is evil. You sell your soul to a lie! It's the "kings" in the party that will prevail. You will be rabble! Scurrying around like a dog or rat in the street for scraps. They will ONLY share to those in the party or friends. Corruption is the end and means of this system. Only those with connections will gain the privilege to have positions of worth.
    Look at USSR, DDR, CHINA, Cuba... Various countries tried. It all ended with a few at the top OWNING everything but saying it's "public" but you have NO access or support to try what you want. You will be limited and controlled! You will not be free. You will be A SLAVE!. It's a slave system. They tell you lies for you to believe you are free but everything is controlled and you will not be allowed to know the truth. You will not be educated or free of thought!
    Thought Crime is real in these systems! You are not permitted to think in some fashions! Then you are mentally ill and be dealt with!

    I said in another thread. "This is the 2nd Dark Ages in it's beginnings". The world will be in a lot of hurt soon enough if these tendencies continue as they have as of late.
    We already have blasphemy reintroduced.

    Leftism has become the church.

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to Kamikaze For This Post:

    Satori (26th February 2020)

  39. Link to Post #60
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    66
    Posts
    6,358
    Thanks
    37,781
    Thanked 43,878 times in 5,429 posts

    Default Re: What's the Difference between Socialism and Communism?

    communism=potato
    socialism=ennui
    left=photon
    right=bellicosity

    My opinions of what the words mean, and opinions are always correct, so there.

    Here we go again...


  40. The Following User Says Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Frank V (26th February 2020)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts