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Thread: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

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    Unsubscribed morguana's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Cheers kula will look up sinclare and much appresiated fred re link, people can be so helpfull and it warms my heart

    lightblue I can't believe your upset over the title! It's better than the shock horror sky is falling ones that get posted on here. I didn't read it as snobbish or condencending, i felt it was done with tongue in cheek and ment as a joke (worth reading freud's book on jokes and the unconcious ).

    Anyway I kinda feel that lightening up a bit is in order here and not jumping to conclusions, it can be hard sometimes to read things as they are ment by the person whom has typed. Also I feel a simple pm to the op would have been a more respectfull means of communicating your displeasure. Surely we are all adults here?
    Blessings
    m
    Last edited by morguana; 14th October 2010 at 09:17.

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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Also snowbird and conk your spot on with your posts
    m

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    Avalon Member Eric J (Viking)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Quote Posted by zookumar (here)
    There is only one solution now ... bring in the zeroing function.
    I can't see any other way ... Why the delay?

    Ermmm let me think...."lets sqeeze a bit more out of the system" !

    viking
    You decide...your thoughts..your actions..your reality.
    Choose well.
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...are-the-change

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    Avalon Retired Member Ross's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Quote Posted by zookumar (here)
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    The unofficial debt is approx. 41 terabucks.

    You get that by subtracting [US unfunded liabilities] from [total national assets].

    Ergo, we have [total national assets] - [US unfunded liabilities]
    ~ [70 trills] - [111 trills]
    = 41 terabucks

    Now, you add in the derivatives fraud, and you're well over 1.5 quadrillion dollars or one and a half petabucks! There is only one solution now ... bring in the zeroing function.

    Borrowing from the genius of Walt Kelly (Pogo):
    I have seen the enormity and it must be bust!
    I heard somewhere it was several Gazzilion dollars...ooh... Im worried now...

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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    awwwww dont worry ross

    Darth Vader - Don't Worry Be Happy

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=DGPYS...eature=related

    hehehehe

    as long as we look after each other within our communities, pull together and use our heads and hearts we will be ok, what upsets me is those billions
    (most of the population of this planet) that have jack **** right now they will be the worst effected, they dont stand a chance we are lucky compaired to them.
    when debt gets to stupid amounts like gazzilions (wow never thought it was a real number! learn something new every day) we may as well just kick back and enjoy what we do have
    (in a economically and environmentally concious manner of course) because numbers such a that are just daft and incomprehencable.
    m

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    Avalon Retired Member Ross's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    The only thing worth worring about is your own 'head space' keeping that balanced...at all costs, vital.

    Everything else that happens around you... you need to flow like water, 'duck n weave' when needed. if that fails then

    Regards

    Ross

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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Quote Posted by Ross (here)
    The only thing worth worring about is your own 'head space' keeping that balanced...at all costs, vital.

    Everything else that happens around you... you need to flow like water, 'duck n weave' when needed. if that fails then

    Regards

    Ross
    you got it hun
    ok im not going to keep this thread off topic any longer.....
    and will say toodle pip for now, sun is shinning, sky is blue, lifes for living, lots to do........

    m

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    Poland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    We have virtual casino that dwarfs what real folks produce. At least in theory.
    Problem is, we use casino chips to buy and sell real things.
    Stop doing that, and you'll see who is worthy of your time and skill.

    But that is of course tip of the iceberg, as many real industries are tied to "casino economy", and need to reorganize or fail, to clear place for real folks.
    "Law", bought and paid for with casino chips, need to be scrapped. Same to other "civilized institutions, created to serve casino.

    Folks need to readjust, and casino owners will do anything to keep addicted.

    In short: we need to re-invent our civilization. And build it anew, from scratch.

    Knowing what destroyed current one. Knowing forces that profited from current scheme of things will fight back.
    Last edited by Luke; 14th October 2010 at 09:51.

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    Avalon Retired Member Ross's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Quote Posted by Luke (here)
    In short: we need to re-invent our civilization. And build it anew, from scratch.

    Knowing what destroyed current one. Knowing forces that profited from current scheme of things will fight back.
    A most logical solution!

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    Avalon Retired Member Kulapops's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Quote Posted by lightblue (here)
    kulapops:

    yes, i think it's condenscending because you are assuming that people worry because they are choosing to do so - which is strongly implied by your chosen thread title...i find the assumption most presumptious...

    no, your wishinig people "people filled their days not worrying about stuff
    " is not condenscending and i never commented on what your wishes may be...


    anyway, i said enough and i will not be coming back here...too snobbish to my liking... l




    .
    Well, sorry if you're offended Blue... not that you're coming back here though... I envy your resolve. I wish I wasn't coming back here either.. but somehow I do

    I find it really interesting (I find people extremely interesting.. so don't take that as patronising either.. but we are... a very interesting race). I guess it's a wild hope that if we understood better how we tick as a race, then our future could be a little rosier.

    It really is a choice though, in my opinion, how much interest you take in world affairs and also to what level. And I'm pretty sure that, the more you know, the more you are going to worry. Because there is lots to worry about.

    The information age is bringing a whole lot of worry to our door. I don't particularly see the starving billion Morguana is referring to being too concerned about the 33 chilean miners. In all probability they know nothing about them. Is that bad ?

    I am glad that I know less than a tenth of what some people know on here...I'm starting to get to sleep at nights again. (yeah!.. "go back to sleep " someone cried). But for those that really want to know about something pretty real to worry about - here is this thread.

    It's the only thing real that smacks of real disaster in the world just now, with consequences for all.

    But I have faith in a quantum universe... my own expression is 'the universe can spin on a dime'. So we could wake up tomorrow and find a completely changed situation (just like the swine flu...it suddenly melted away)... or aliens could arrive - if you prefer.

    I'm not out to cause upset, so it's really interesting that someone can take such offense at what is actually a factual thread and not a rant (for a change ) . But that's your right Lightblue....

    My point of view, if you have your health, your family, some money to eat and pay the bills, then you're doing pretty well. We can then ask ourselves, 'what am I going to do with this great life of mine?'

    Jesus said , 'Which of you by anxious thought can add a foot to your height?'

    And he was right... worry is not going to change anything.... but if you want to know about something worrying ... here it is.

    I'm not worrying about Kermit and the rest of the lizard muppets. Or disclosure, or false flag (how would you ever know anyway ? No one's proved 9/11 yet.. or 7/7... yeah.. I agree the information's all there.. but who is accepting that as the official truth ???)

    Don't worry, be happy.. don't go back to sleep... we just need to change our point of focus.

    Staring hard at a wall is not going to change it into a blancmange.

    Peace

    K

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    Avalon Retired Member Ross's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Quote My point of view, if you have your health, your family, some money to eat and pay the bills, then you're doing pretty well. We can then ask ourselves, 'what am I going to do with this great life of mine?'
    We who live as such are a minority, be grateful.

    Quote Don't worry, be happy.. don't go back to sleep... we just need to change our point of focus.

    As Harry Enfield said on many occasions..."ooh yea like it"

    Good post.

    Regards

    Ross

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    Avalon Retired Member Kulapops's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Thanks Ross... and all for your contributions. I know I've posted this here before at Avalon.. but it's a real hoot and worth watching if you haven't seen it. I love the idea that a bank 'creates' the money for your mortgatge, the moment you ask for it !



    P.S. Regarding over the counter derivatives... as I understand it.. it's like a famer and a miller having an agreement.. one to sell corn and one to buy it. Traditionally, this agreement would be covered by a handshake. However, over the course of time, some bright spark saw that perhaps there was a value to this agreement. After all, the miller can't make bread without a supply of cord, and the farmer is equally stuffed if he has no buyers for his produce.

    So... banks (investment banks particularly) came up with the idea of giving this agreement a value. Let's say £1000 in our example. Course, as soon as something has a paper value (the contract to buy and sell something in this case, but there are dozens of others where OTC derivatives are concerned... everything from insurance agreements, credit swaps and blue-bottles racing down a window pane to.. well.. we'd better get on with the story...) it can be bought and sold at profit itself.

    So there is a market for these contracts (for that read worthless pieces of paper) just like the stock market, and these values can go up and down. Ludicrously so, that our £1000 farmers agreement can wind up being passed on from say Bear Stearns to Goldman Sachs down the chain for, ooh, say £500 million.

    Course in the meantime, everyone has forgotten what the piece of paper initially represented physically. And.. that for £500 million, you could buy the farm, the mill, a large chunk of the countyside and even the farmer's wife for that much...

    Now comes the good part... the pieces of paper can be insured.. just like everything else (they have a 'value', see?) and if a troubled bank looks like it's going under.. it can collect on the insurances. Nobody ever did, and consequently, investment bankers got rich on the insurance premiums.

    But the reality is that the asset this £500 million represents, is literally worthless (just a handshake, remember?) but if a bank fails ( a bit like crashing your car) they want to collect the insurance... and this causes the insuring bank to fail.. so creating a domino effect.

    That's why the banks can't be 'allowed to fail' (they'd all fall down ) and that's why they need so much bail out dough. This is not money to fix real problems, but to underwrite these worthless pieces of paper.

    What should really happen is everyone acknowledge that this paper is worhtless and write the debt off as '0'... the value of a handshake... but no.. they are valuing these pieces of paper as real and paying up the insurance for every penny. No wonder the bonuses are looking good, while tax payer and state money is paying these insurance 'claims' or rather OTC obligations....

    Of course, the whole house of cards will fall at some point. Look at pension funds for example... if a pension fund has , say $1 billion in total value.. you have to ask what portion of that is made up of OTCs... if it's a high proportion then that pension has no real value, other than what the OTC is valued at...

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    Poland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    WARNING! "Money as a debt" seriously slants reality of monetary system and what's worse provide completely ridiculous solution!!
    Before age of paper currency there was no banks per se, there were "investment agencies" that linked people with surplus of funds with those having investments proposals. It more or less worked like Islamic Hawala system, on which pre-modern european money system was based. These agencies have not stored money- limited amounts were secured by goldsmiths, but major storage facilities were provided by the state - in most famous case, England - in the Tower.
    This led to obvious problem - The crowns often borrowed money it was providing security for and was unable to pay back. Most famous case was defaulting made by King Charles I, that led to revolution and, ultimately to establishing Bank of England . I urge all diligent persons to read Murray N. Rothbard essay on "Mercantilism and Inflation" available here
    Quote The Restoration government soon needed to raise a great deal of money for wars with the Dutch. Taxes were greatly increased, and the Crown borrowed extensively from the goldsmiths. In late 1671, King Charles II asked the bankers for further large loans to finance a new fleet. Upon the goldsmiths' refusal, the king proclaimed, on 5 January 1672, a "stop of the Exchequer," that is, a willful refusal to pay any interest or principal on much of the outstanding public debt. Some of the "stopped" debt was owed by the government to suppliers and pensioners, but the vast bulk was held by the victimized goldsmiths. Indeed, of the total stopped debt of 1.21 million pounds, 1.17 million was owned by the goldsmiths.
    Quote Salvation came in the form of a group of promoters, headed by the Scot William Paterson. Paterson approached a special committee of the House of Commons formed in early 1693 to study the problem of raising funds, and proposed a remarkable new scheme. In return for a set of important special privileges from the state, Paterson and his group would form the Bank of England, which would issue new notes, most of which would be used to finance the government's deficit. In short, since there were not enough private savers willing to finance the deficit, Paterson and company were graciously willing to buy interest-bearing government bonds, to be paid for by newly created bank notes, carrying a raft of special privileges with them. As soon as Parliament duly chartered the Bank of England in 1694, King William himself and various MPs rushed to become shareholders of this new money-creating bonanza.

    William Paterson urged the English government to grant Bank of England notes legal-tender power, but this was going too far, even for the British Crown. But Parliament did give the bank the advantage of holding deposits of all government funds.

    The new institution of government-privileged central banking soon demonstrated its inflationary power. The Bank of England quickly issued the enormous sum of 760,000 pounds, most of which were used to buy government debt. This issue had an immediate and substantial inflationary impact, and in two short years, the Bank of England was insolvent after a bank run, an insolvency gleefully abetted by its competitors, the private goldsmiths, who were happy to return to it the swollen Bank of England notes for redemption of specie.
    As you see "Money as a debt" seriously understate bank-government connection that existed from day one. Goldshmits were those who screwed. Fiat money system existed from day one to supply government debt. Only after that banksters were allowed to fleece private debtors with fractional reserve system.
    And final straw- the so called solution- government issued non-interest paper: it means that government issues Debt with no interest attached- which means you do not earn interest on money you borrowed, instead you are secretly taxed via inflation. Who will fall for such obvious scam? History , via means of Lincoln's greenback scheme answer us: public employees and contractors, that are first to be paid in IOU's. Greenbacks were specially issued to pay soldiers during "Civil Wars". And then government forces all other market participants to use these unbacked IOU's on same terms as real money. Mind that when you next hold dollar: that is dollar you just lent to the the government via FED. Congress issued money means there is no ceiling for government debt - and no guuarantee it will be repaid. You will be foreclosed, government can't be.
    As fraudulent as private-government cooperation is, it still has some legal appearence - that is because bankster thieves have longer predatory horizon than your usually elected psycho.
    Historically, no government issued money has such claims- see Weimar Hyperinfletion story- you can read about that here

    Looking at history again: only periods of privately-funded enterprises backed with hard (gold based) currency led to prosperity. Periods of government-issued money inevitably lend to wars and growth of military industrial complex. Periods of bankster-issued money led to predatory economics followed by deep crisis.
    Logically, what should wise man choose?

    read here for origins of Central Banking in United States

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    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Gm Kula...
    Fred

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    Avalon Retired Member Kulapops's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Gm ?

    good man ? General Motors ? Good Move ? Good moan ? Get Moving ? Go Mufty ?

    Get Me ? Go Madly... Great Message... Good Money... Great Marsupial

    Green Man... erm ?

    No.. it's not coming yet... what are you saying Freddy, me ole star ?

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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Daylight had just washed up upon the western shores of my little hamlet, Kula.
    Since I own no General Motors cars, it was probably a
    Good Morning.

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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Thank you kula for popping clip on thread and for typing in simple language for economic illiterates such as myself.
    Gm fred roflmao iykwim
    m x

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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    AND.... in case no one noticed...



    Things is right with the world, once again.
    Bless ya, hon
    Fred

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    Poland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Less agendish than Money as debt .. Daily Reckoning presents: IOUsa (2008)

    And congatulations Morguana!

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    Avalon Retired Member Kulapops's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those seeking something to worry about, keep an eye on the financials

    Quote Posted by Fredkc (here)
    AND.... in case no one noticed...



    Things is right with the world, once again.
    Bless ya, hon
    Fred


    ... no surprises there then

    And now we have junior member, senior member, junior moderator, moderator, senior moderator...

    Wow.. this place has more stars and stripes than the Good Ol' Red white and Blue...

    Has no one considered that Senior Moderator should be at least four and a half stars

    GM Fred...

    (genetically modified Fred ? )
    Last edited by Kulapops; 14th October 2010 at 16:39.

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