What Zecharia Sitchen Didn’t Tell You...

[sigma6]

Likin' it... some serious scholarship for a change...

I think it is high time we honour Michael S Heiser (PhD) I get the impression this man is horribly misunderstood and clearly biased by George Noory who just fawns over Sitichen's memory... But they treat Heiser like he is a right wing Christian fundamentalist or something... Maybe C2C knows there is a whole generation of "Sitchen wannabes" raised and fed on Sitchens work who treat it like holy gospel... and no wonder when you look at how many printings of his books and in different languages, it takes on a life of it's own... (how could such a kindly old man be misrepresenting the facts?
($$$$$$$$$...)

Anyhow I don't think Heiser is a right wing fundamentalist at all, (he probably was at one time. A long, long time ago... (or something along those lines...) But I don't think this is the case at all...

It has to do with his presentation, It may be there is an underlying conflict in his tone and manner. He probably feels the burden of what he is exposing which must be a huge contrast to the childhood and expectations his parents must have had putting him through all those biblical studies... But in this presentation, he manages to stifle that inner academic outrage he must feel.... Seriously put yourself in his shoes, you dedicate your life to teasing out the truth, and you make a decent living, while some other dude fabricates a fantastic story on the scale of L Ron Hubbard, Battlefield Earth, and ends up making millions... can you imagine the sheer rage and irony? Classic case of bull**** baffles brains...

What Heiser is not, that Sitchen is ... a good salesman... Something tells me that Heiser will at some point in the future, realize the potential of what he is sitting on (the TRUTH!) ... and will figure out how to market it properly... People do want to know the truth... and he definitely has this on his side, and these presentations show he can defend it...

It just needs "polishing" and added context to answer the objections and the naysayers, and I think he would be ready for the big time... (i.e. he has to think in terms of the market perception) Also instead of going head to head with Sitchen in small forums, he should be using Sitchen's momentum to carry his message into the mainstream... I just know there is a huge marketing angle here, and he is one of the few, who could deliver the goods...


What Zachariah Sitchen Didn’t Tell You...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5bHn0QC6a_I

Sitchen was a journalist, and never provided specific reference for any of his interpretations.
update: Zecharia Sitchin is a fiction writer pretending to be non fiction writer. Or as been more elegantly stated "alternative non-fiction"
He created a lot of popular "memes" that were never actually vetted or verified by any 3rd parties...
At a time when the Sumerian Texts were largely inaccessible to the main stream.
The biggest being the definition of Annunaki (which he misinterpreted ever so slightly)

According to the Sumerian tablets, there were Annunaki, they did hold a high position,
in some social structure of "deities" but not as Sitchen portrayed them (as Heiser clearly exposes)
This presentation also explains why Sitchen had so much room for embellishment.
The fact is, there is limited information about the Annunaki,
What is there, is open to much speculation and alternative interpretation.
(An ideal vehicle to write speculative fiction about.)

Heiser is a PhD, who learned how to read the original Hebrew, Aramaic, Sumerian and Greek texts;
And analyzed the original documents right down to their grammatical nuances and spelling.
It doesn’t get any more detailed or analytical.

Sitchen never did go live on air with him, but got sick the one time (and eventually died unfortunately)
(could it have been an attack of craphispantsitus? Great, even more guilt for Heiser to bear...
Ironically, many favour Sitchen because they liked his "kinder, gentler" personality,
(and fantastic stories...) The man definitely won the PR war...

But what does that have to do with scientific methodology?
As the above Youtube presentation shows, there is no comparison...


On a continuing note...
I am still looking at interpretations of the Nag Hammadi, (Gnostic origin story...) whole other story... and not inconsistent with modern conceptions of the universe known to science... very interesting... still fascinates... I think this particular interview follows nicely, whether John Lash realizes it or not, he totally substantiates Heiser's work and analysis above, yet another confirmation...

John Lash - Mythological Entities - Illuminati Knows About Them..

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5QkAryI5950

[The Royal Wizard]

I can't really see the big difference between what this man is saying and what Sitchin is saying.

There are serpentine watchers/anunnaki/gods superior to men. There are hybrids. They tampered with the humans one way or another.

He knows his Bible, but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts, partly sumerian.

He calls the netherworld hell, why? Why not interpret the word literally? Netherworld could just as likely be under the earth surface.

To me this is a minor arguement, as wether Jesus was 33 or 34 years old. Both guys says practically the same thing. There was some beeings in the old days; they f***** with us, .......and they probably still do, from the Netherworld.

The details we can never be sure of, as this guy also states, the rest, as I see it, is interpretation or point of view.

Thank you though for posting :-)

all the best

TRW

[Gerald Paris]

"but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts"

Where can I find the justification for this statement? I do not know this and have not seen any evidence to support it. I hear people say this all the time and wonder why. I ask out of a genuine desire of understanding and knowledge and not just asking out of spite to stir an argument.

Thank you for sharing.

Much Love

G

[Lifebringer]

it appears those who would value gold over religion, morality, or soul, would be those who breeded with them or such that were easily led astray by mystical powers that made them address them as Gods. I don't know, I'm on the journey, and I'll look at both sides/all sides. With me, information gleaned from both, is worth a perusal.

[Lifebringer]

Compare what's been changed with the books the organized churches give you or speak on of importance to the church. Listen. Is it about money and do they mention the poor or do they mention a bigger mega church or cathedral, when the seats are mostly empty every Sunday? Is it always an endless building fund, yet NO modern necessities or handicap accommodations are provided. Do they welcome children, offer daycare by unemployed mothers who come to their church or work in their non-profits for the jobless? A multitude of services that are always read about in the books, but only select verses are mentioned when they want to lead the "congregation?" After school tutoring for the troubled child falling behind. Surely someone in the church has skills since they are unemployed, and if it's teaching, then hire them for a daycare or after school.

Anyway you asked a question, and I said I would provide a link. This one helped me as well as the Urantia Book in an understanding of how the Creator's Universe and all it's different realms and hierarchy in the superuniverses, we've just discovered, reside.

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qa-tran.htm

Where some of the pieces, possibly some answers, and other eye opening revelations about what really was occurring without bias? Urantia is a little complicated and long on the introduction of what, who and how it was in the beginning and the intent of Creator for this and other worlds. Dare I say it mentions the "Lucerferian Rebellion" to which after reading the total years of Yeshua/Jesus life and the end of it. I went to delve into the maladjusted thinking that influenced those San Hedrin, pharasees and it took me 5 months to read. Filled in a lot of blanks. You can find the Urantia Books at: http://www.Urantia.org. Its free and online.

Seek and ye shall find.

[zebowho]

Gerald, just look up the Council of Nicaea (Nicea) and the bible. As far as I know, every modern day "Christian" bible is based on that council, organized by Constantine. Which by the way, Dr. Heiser clearly references ancient texts (which predates Constantine and his council).

Thank you Sigma, this is something I've been on the trail of for quite a while, getting theological information that is pre Constantine (with no time to learn the ancient languages :D). Dr. Heiser does a great job of cross referencing and explaining where the biblical narrative could have some major miss-interpretations. I for one can see a big difference, based on how he is explaining interpretative languages!

Personally, I think Heiser should just stand on his own two feet. He doesn't need to use Sitchen/Gardner or others to his advantage. In fact it might not benefit him at all. I mean I half expected to see his whole presentation as a bash on where "so and so" got it wrong. Truth doesn't throw punches, it just is. Sure he used a couple examples but then left it at that, was a nice surprise.

-z

[Gerald Paris]

Mayhap what I am asking for is the actual evidence that the texts were rewritten and changed. I am aware of the "Council of Nicaea" and the speculations that people place on their role in our history without any real evidence. Please know that I am not christian nor do I subscribe to religion. The reason I even ask for the actual evidence (aside from my own personal growth and understanding) is to attempt to show folks that mayhap you believe something because someone told you and not because it is reality. I am open to other translations, in fact I compare multiple versions/translations of the bible (including apocryphal and pseudepigraphal works) when I do my study. I am not one to assume that the bible is the end all on truth and I am well aware that it is used by nefarious individuals to achieve control and mind manipulation. I get irritated when people scoff at the bible out of ignorance and label it as a false source for truth. I used to be one who did so until I recognized that I was speaking about things that I was completely ignorant of and decided to change that.

I appreciate you both adding to conversation.

Much Love

G

[Gerald Paris]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rY4YiUc4L2Y

Seems relevant

[Belle]

Posted by Gerald Paris (here)
"but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts"

Where can I find the justification for this statement? I do not know this and have not seen any evidence to support it. I hear people say this all the time and wonder why. I ask out of a genuine desire of understanding and knowledge and not just asking out of spite to stir an argument.

Thank you for sharing.

Much Love

G

I cannot speak well re: the old testament. In regards to the new testament, practically everything can be found in the cults of Attis, Dionysus, Mithras and Isis.

For example:

1. The central figure of the various mystery cults was a savior, a 'son of god', who was described as 'the Lord'...the suffering and death of the 'son of god'...crucified gods...a god's going into hell was a widespread idea as well as the ascent into heaven that formed part of the salvation story in all mystery cults...the trinity was known in ancient Egypt...the sick were healed in the names of Mithras and Dionysus, as well as the dead woken, the sea calmed, water turned into wine, etc....
I could go on an on, but you get the idea.

2. Generally there is an account of the supernatural 'begetting' of the savior god, with the virgin birth being known long before Jesus in the cases of Buddha and Zoroaster, for example. Other founders of religions, besides Jesus, were born in a manger, put in a crib, and wrapped in swaddling clothes. In other religions, too, the birthplace was lit by a bright light, heavenly choirs singing praise appeared, even the adoration of the shepherds was not lacking. After the births of both Jesus and Krishna, the slaying of all newly born male children was ordered by a jealous king. All founders of religion were tempted by the devil, mostly in the desert where they were fasting, offered food first and then worldly dominion of his 'victim' will submit.

Similar passages...

Bible: 'The crooked shall be made straight.'
Taoism: 'That which is crooked shall be made straight.'

Bible: 'Unto you is born a Savior'
Mytery religions: 'Unto you this day the Savior is born. The virgin has given birth; the line increases.'

Bible: 'And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die'
Hinduism: 'For believe me that he who trusts in me shall never die.'

Bible: 'Except ye...become as little children'
Zoroastrianism: 'Let ideas and thoughts be and become as a little child'

[cloud9]

Joseph Campbell's books are a good place to start about comparing religions and myths, mythology and gods from old days but there are many more authors and books.

[Belle]

Posted by zebowho (here)
Gerald, just look up the Council of Nicaea (Nicea) and the bible. As far as I know, every modern day "Christian" bible is based on that council, organized by Constantine. Which by the way, Dr. Heiser clearly references ancient texts (which predates Constantine and his council).

The oldest dogmas which are still valid today were proclaimed at Nicea (a.d.325), Constantinople (381), Ephesus (431), Chalcedon (451) and Constantinople (553).

Prior to the first Ecumenical Council at Nicea, the doctrine of Arius of Alexandria that God and Christ were not identical, but only similar held good. The Council proclaimed that God the Father and Jesus were of the same essence. With this as a foundation, the bishops unanimously passed the 'Nicene Creed'.

The second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople introduced the dogma of the trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost into church doctrine.

The third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus declared that Mary should be worshipped as the Mother of God.

The fourth Ecumenical Council at Chalcedon proclaimed the doctrine that divine and human nature are inseparably united in the person of Jesus. Also, the preservation of the unity of the doctrine was entrusted to the Pope, who could intervene whenever he saw fit...that is how the primacy of Rome originated.

The fifth Ecumenical Council at Constantinople was staged by Justinian I. This council was described in theological literature as the 'Council of Acclamation' to Justinian's imperial decrees and laws. Here it was declared that a 'heretic' was anyone who denied the Christian dogmas...subject of savage punishments, and even death. What was to be considered orthodox in the future was exclusively determined by the leaders of the Church, 'inspired by the Holy Ghost'. About this time, the ring which bishops wear became a symbol of marriage to the Church.

[sigma6]

Posted by The Royal Wizard (here)
I can't really see the big difference between what this man is saying and what Sitchin is saying.
There are serpentine watchers/anunnaki/gods superior to men. There are hybrids. They tampered with the humans one way or another.
He knows his Bible, but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts, partly sumerian.
He calls the netherworld hell, why? Why not interpret the word literally? Netherworld could just as likely be under the earth surface.
To me this is a minor arguement, as wether Jesus was 33 or 34 years old. Both guys says practically the same thing. There was some beeings in the old days; they f***** with us, .......and they probably still do, from the Netherworld.
The details we can never be sure of, as this guy also states, the rest, as I see it, is interpretation or point of view.
Thank you though for posting :-)
all the best
TRW

You might consider checking out the second video... DNA manipulation might not be the only issue... if at all... The Annunaki didn't alter human DNA, but they were present at the time, it's little bit more of a difference, then whether Jesus was 33 or 34 ??? And Heiser's is not just referencing the Bible, but the Sumerian texts and the Book of Enoch and more... Sitchen NEVER made specific reference, as many who have asked, have noted he always declined to provide any. Heiser also has many more videos, all of the same level of detail. He has an entire series on the Gnostic interpretation as well, that talks about a Pantheon of gods. I think people are mismatching Annunaki with Annu... It may just be a synonym, or similar sounding and thus I think many subconsciously associate it with "godlike" ones or similar... it may not derivative of Annu at all... might be worth watching that one a second time too...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Gerald Paris (here)
"but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts"
Where can I find the justification for this statement? I do not know this and have not seen any evidence to support it. I hear people say this all the time and wonder why. I ask out of a genuine desire of understanding and knowledge and not just asking out of spite to stir an argument.
Thank you for sharing.
Much Love
G

I would check out Bart Ehrman's work... but I have seen references that the Bible is a summation of Egyptian, Sumerian Mesopotamian, and check out my link ROMAN MATRIX

[sigma6]

Posted by Lifebringer (here)
Compare what's been changed with the books the organized churches give you or speak on of importance to the church. Listen. Is it about money and do they mention the poor or do they mention a bigger mega church or cathedral, when the seats are mostly empty every Sunday? Is it always an endless building fund, yet NO modern necessities or handicap accommodations are provided. Do they welcome children, offer daycare by unemployed mothers who come to their church or work in their non-profits for the jobless? A multitude of services that are always read about in the books, but only select verses are mentioned when they want to lead the "congregation?" After school tutoring for the troubled child falling behind. Surely someone in the church has skills since they are unemployed, and if it's teaching, then hire them for a daycare or after school.

Anyway you asked a question, and I said I would provide a link. This one helped me as well as the Urantia Book in an understanding of how the Creator's Universe and all it's different realms and hierarchy in the superuniverses, we've just discovered, reside.

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qa-tran.htm

Where some of the pieces, possibly some answers, and other eye opening revelations about what really was occurring without bias? Urantia is a little complicated and long on the introduction of what, who and how it was in the beginning and the intent of Creator for this and other worlds. Dare I say it mentions the "Lucerferian Rebellion" to which after reading the total years of Yeshua/Jesus life and the end of it. I went to delve into the maladjusted thinking that influenced those San Hedrin, pharasees and it took me 5 months to read. Filled in a lot of blanks. You can find the Urantia Books at: http://www.Urantia.org. Its free and online.
Seek and ye shall find.

This isn't about a focus on institutionalized religion, you took a wrong que from "Royal Wizard" and missed out he wasn't just referencing the KJB... But Granted the Bible by itself is a trap set to mislead the unsuspecting... a product of the Roman Vatican, (Roman Empire hiding in plain sight) The Bible does actually contain some solid information about the past 2, maybe 3,000 years, but there is no way to know what it is referencing, because it has been encoded in my opinion... (based especially on the work of Joseph Campbell, although I don't think he has the whole picture, and even more on the work of Richard Ellis and Timothy Wallace Murphy... It is a collage, different things to different people, a record, a code of laws, a symbolic reference to common law and equity (imo) a secret history of Egypt and Babylon and Sumeria, philosophy, etc and much more I am sure... and yes it is a tool of the Roman Empire ultimately...

I am open to other translations, in fact I compare multiple versions/translations of the bible (including apocryphal and pseudepigraphal works) when I do my study.

That is exactly what Heiser just did in the Video... ; ]

[sigma6]

Posted by Belle (here)

Posted by Gerald Paris (here)
"but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts"

Where can I find the justification for this statement? I do not know this and have not seen any evidence to support it. I hear people say this all the time and wonder why. I ask out of a genuine desire of understanding and knowledge and not just asking out of spite to stir an argument.

Thank you for sharing.

Much Love

G

I cannot speak well re: the old testament. In regards to the new testament, practically everything can be found in the cults of Attis, Dionysus, Mithras and Isis.

For example:

1. The central figure of the various mystery cults was a savior, a 'son of god', who was described as 'the Lord'...the suffering and death of the 'son of god'...crucified gods...a god's going into hell was a widespread idea as well as the ascent into heaven that formed part of the salvation story in all mystery cults...the trinity was known in ancient Egypt...the sick were healed in the names of Mithras and Dionysus, as well as the dead woken, the sea calmed, water turned into wine, etc....
I could go on an on, but you get the idea.

2. Generally there is an account of the supernatural 'begetting' of the savior god, with the virgin birth being known long before Jesus in the cases of Buddha and Zoroaster, for example. Other founders of religions, besides Jesus, were born in a manger, put in a crib, and wrapped in swaddling clothes. In other religions, too, the birthplace was lit by a bright light, heavenly choirs singing praise appeared, even the adoration of the shepherds was not lacking. After the births of both Jesus and Krishna, the slaying of all newly born male children was ordered by a jealous king. All founders of religion were tempted by the devil, mostly in the desert where they were fasting, offered food first and then worldly dominion of his 'victim' will submit.

Similar passages...

Bible: 'The crooked shall be made straight.'
Taoism: 'That which is crooked shall be made straight.'

Bible: 'Unto you is born a Savior'
Mystery religions: 'Unto you this day the Savior is born. The virgin has given birth; the line increases.'

Bible: 'And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die'
Hinduism: 'For believe me that he who trusts in me shall never die.'

Bible: 'Except ye...become as little children'
Zoroastrianism: 'Let ideas and thoughts be and become as a little child'

Yes much agreement here, it has been widely speculated by many scholars and historians that in fact "Jesus" and others did in fact get many of the "Christian" teachings from the East... Could that be the reason for all the "mystery" ??? Could this be the reason what eventually became the Vatican forbid people to read it, to accept is as a mystery? And to kill anyone who would question it, the whole thing was karmically set up against itself from the get go... regardless the good intentions of millions of souls... the foundation appears to be one of deceit and deception, born out of political intrigue... all cardinal characteristics of Classsical Roman culture you might say.

btw I am not saying that Heiser has perfect understanding, I don't think Heiser would say that... but he knows what scientific research is, and he does it well, so he does make an excellent reference... I think he should take it even further... (he may have, I am not familiar with all his work, apparently there is a lot... and there is some pretty far out stuff that both he and David Flynn had dug up... almost too mind boggling to comprehend even... (thinking of Flynn's analysis of the mathematical anomalies of Roswell crash... pure mind boggling... )

[ghostrider]

Posted by Gerald Paris (here)
"but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts"

Where can I find the justification for this statement? I do not know this and have not seen any evidence to support it. I hear people say this all the time and wonder why. I ask out of a genuine desire of understanding and knowledge and not just asking out of spite to stir an argument.

Thank you for sharing.

Much Love

G

all the spiritual teaching comes from the Nokodemjon who 12 billion years ago became a purely spiritual being no longer needing a material body ... he started the line of prophets , Henoch , Isaiah , Jeremiah , Ezekiel , Immanuel , Muhammad , Beam ... etc ... the writing has been brought to earth many times , at least for 22 million years ... it is much older than people know ...

[Cardillac]

I just think people must take a sobering look at Zechariah Sitchen; obviously he commanded much knowledge (like one of a very few being able to translate Sumerian/Mesopotamian tablets- very few have this knowledge) but on the other hand his offices were located in...Rockefeller Plaza (and we all know what that portends to); so for whom was he really working?-

now to the twilight zone: if one is aware of the testimonies of an entity known as "Arizona Wilder" and what she had to say about Sitchen (if her testimonies are to be taken seriously) this sheds an incredibly dark shadow on Sitchen-

"Wilder" a complete shill or Sitchen at least partly a shill providing some truth with some dis-info?- I don't have the answer- you decide-

please be well all-

Larry

[Timewaster]

Posted by Cardillac (here)
I just think people must take a sobering look at Zechariah Sitchen; obviously he commanded much knowledge (like one of a very few being able to translate Sumerian/Mesopotamian tablets- very few have this knowledge) but on the other hand his offices were located in...Rockefeller Plaza (and we all know what that portends to); so for whom was he really working?-

now to the twilight zone: if one is aware of the testimonies of an entity known as "Arizona Wilder" and what she had to say about Sitchen (if her testimonies are to be taken seriously) this sheds an incredibly dark shadow on Sitchen-

"Wilder" a complete shill or Sitchen at least partly a shill providing some truth with some dis-info?- I don't have the answer- you decide-

please be well all-

Larry

Yes from memory, Wilder said that Sitchen was a Reptillian.

[sigma6]

Posted by Timewaster (here)

Posted by Cardillac (here)
I just think people must take a sobering look at Zechariah Sitchen; obviously he commanded much knowledge (like one of a very few being able to translate Sumerian/Mesopotamian tablets- very few have this knowledge) but on the other hand his offices were located in...Rockefeller Plaza (and we all know what that portends to); so for whom was he really working?-
now to the twilight zone: if one is aware of the testimonies of an entity known as "Arizona Wilder" and what she had to say about Sitchen (if her testimonies are to be taken seriously) this sheds an incredibly dark shadow on Sitchen-
"Wilder" a complete shill or Sitchen at least partly a shill providing some truth with some dis-info?- I don't have the answer- you decide-
please be well all-
Larry

Yes from memory, Wilder said that Sitchen was a Reptillian.

Was hoping for something a little more down to earth, like "he fibbed a little". Or he was fudging data, I think he was a guy who must have spent so many years digging this up... and never in his wildest dreams did he think anyone would even bother to follow his trail. And those who may have known, usually can't be bothered to give it any attention, other then to poo-poo it..

[Frederick Jackson]

Posted by Gerald Paris (here)
"but as we know the Bible is just a rewrite of older texts"

Where can I find the justification for this statement? I do not know this and have not seen any evidence to support it. I hear people say this all the time and wonder why. I ask out of a genuine desire of understanding and knowledge and not just asking out of spite to stir an argument.

Thank you for sharing.


Much Love

G

The only thing I am aware of is the Biblical flood story, which is virtually identical to the flood story in the Sumerian "Epic of Gilgamesh". Probably no coincidence that Abraham was born in the same land and inherited and carried with him the same mythology (or history: Sumer was in the floodplain of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers)

[Airwooz]

When Icke met Sitchin face to face way back in the day, Icke asked him why he never said anything about ancient Sumer’s numerous reptilian motifs in his books (such as the fact that the Annunaki were sometimes shown to be human while at other times were depicted as having reptilian or fish-like skin), and after Icke asked him this Sitchin warned him, “Don’t touch the reptoids Icke!” It wasn’t until Arizona Wilder exposed these facts that Icke found out why Sitchin said this. And by the way, the Annunaki were actually the reptoids, as Icke explains in his 1999 book “The Biggest Secret.”

http://planet.infowars.com/weird-new...-and-a-monster