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Thread: Communication after society breakdown

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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default Communication after society breakdown

    Started last year putting all bug-out gear together and now thinking about communications. The ham radio is definitely a good thing to consider...my boy scout in me says so...


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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    A note posted in a central place or on a door of an old home, Have private family symbols, so you all know who/what to look out for - discuss destinations have a symbol for each destination so everyone who matters knows where you are headed.

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    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    This is a good, clear video. But a VHF/UHF handheld radio as shown has limited range of only about 5 to 10 miles which is fine if you want to know about local conditions. Using repeaters extends range to maybe 50 miles, but only if they have a mains supply - think of them as very simple cell-phone towers.

    To get greater distances, you need HF communications, something Bill Ryan understands when he started this thread.

    Don't forget CB radio. It's got a range similar to VHF radio (but greatly depending on antenna design and transmitter power) and will also be useful in some 'Big Event'.

    But please, all this equipment is useless in an emergency unless it can be operated from a stable, long-term power source that is not connected to the mains.

    No need to worry though, there are a number of free energy machines with free downloadable designs, (here and here on this forum) so power won't be a problem - will it?

    Nick

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    hello nick
    what is a good HF communication equipment to start with to reach people in the UK, which is at a reasonable price?
    If the internet goes off no one can communicate.
    thanks
    SC

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    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    Quote Posted by sound consciousness (here)
    hello nick
    what is a good HF communication equipment to start with to reach people in the UK, which is at a reasonable price?
    If the internet goes off no one can communicate.
    thanks
    SC
    Do you mean from within the UK to other parts of the UK or from outside the UK to people in the UK? If outside, how far away from the UK?

    Nick

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    Hello Nick
    I have a Midland CB Transceiver...ALAN 42 MULTI hand held radio 40 channels..i still cannot reach anybody with it even at a short distance, any ideas ?SC .I am trying to find a radio that works just in the UK

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    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    Quote Posted by sound consciousness (here)
    Hello Nick
    I have a Midland CB Transceiver...ALAN 42 MULTI hand held radio 40 channels..i still cannot reach anybody with it even at a short distance, any ideas ?SC .I am trying to find a radio that works just in the UK
    Hand-held CB transceivers will only have a limited range at the best of times - sometimes little more than than a couple of miles, depending on terrain. (In built-up areas much less). That's because they have small inefficient antennas and limited power because they run of batteries. Even if used from a car battery, the power won't be more than about 5 watts. Did you ever see it working with another station?

    Nick

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    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    Anyway, info you requested about inter-UK HF communications:

    For general use by non-trained, non-technical operators, 27 MHz CB equipment is probably the best bet for inter-UK use. But maximum range is probably only 15 - 20 miles, and often less. That's with a good base station and an efficient antenna. (But Morse Code is useful for secure communications - see end.)

    A good 27 MHz dipole antenna (about 5.5 metres end to end and fed in the middle) will not only make better use of the transmitter power, it will also go some way to enhancing the weaker signals of the received stations. Mount it sloping (but as near vertical as possible) away from trees, and buildings. Connect the outer braid of the coax cable (if not using a balun) to the length closest to the ground.

    See here: http://ham-antennas.blogspot.co.uk/2...e-antenna.html

    It can also be mounted as an 'Inverted V' as shown here: http://www.kd5om.com/build-an-inverted-vee.htm

    Each arm of both antennas is about 2.2 metres long. Precise trimming with an SWR bridge is a good idea, but not essential.

    Getting the antenna right, installed properly and with water-tight joints is vitally important. The usual antennas sold with CB gear are loaded vertical antennas, and although they work, they are mainly designed to be used on a vehicle. A base station can use a more efficient antenna as described above.

    UK CB can now use different transmission modes; FM, AM and SSB. They all have advantages and disadvantages, but FM was used first, so theoretically, in a zombie apocalypse (or whatever you're planning for!) people will get their old FM sets out, so there are likely to be more of those than any other type. If money is no problem, get a good multi-mode set. Do some research to see what users recommend these days.

    I guess in a true societal breakdown, CB and amateur radio will work together. Amateur radio to establish long-distance and international comms, and CBers concentrating on local comms.

    But have you got solar panels to charge batteries to run this equipment when the mains fails?

    To be honest, for simple, secure communications Morse Code still has a place. The equipment is incredibly simple to build, a few watts goes a very long way, and government authorities have probably lost all those capable of understanding it. I doubt many in GHCQ still copy it these days, and I doubt it's routinely monitored, although if terrorists used it (if they are not already) I hope GCHQ would plug that hole.

    Top Tip: Badly timed hand-sent Morse is very difficult for off-the-shelf computer readers to unscramble, but fairly easy for a trained operator to understand.

    Nick

    PS: Don't miss the useful info in Bill Ryan's thread here.
    Last edited by Nick Matkin; 7th September 2014 at 10:49. Reason: more info

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    hello Nick,
    20 miles is not very far especially if the internet goes down , which it will Sun,Negs etc, .therefore, How can we set up a systems where "Avalonians" can link up together,at the moment, no-one is making an issue of this problem and not many are getting prepared. SC

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    UK Avalon Member Nick Matkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    Firstly the true risk of such an event must be assessed. I think various agencies have done that. Opinions vary from 'inevitable' from the conspiracy bunch, to 'possible but very unlikely' which is where I place myself.

    Solar activity is probably the most likely cause of a technological breakdown - see Carrington Event. Unfortunately no one knows how often those could occur.

    Perhaps the other most likely cause of a societal breakdown is spread of a disease (or fear of spread) where people just stay indoors at home - including power workers - so the lights go out.

    All events are low risk, high impact, so it would be prudent to have a plan, but not lie awake each night worrying about it.

    Most Avalonians are sensibly aware, but like any group of people there are those who see fear and conspiracy under every stone, which I don't believe is helpful.

    So to answer your question about communications; amateur radio operators on this forum could possibly establish some form of international communications if there are enough, but think about it; if there were to be a complete societal breakdown, do you really think Avalonians will be worrying because we can't communicate with each other any more? I think I'd be more interested in locating clean water, getting my medications, and keeping my local community safe from marauding armed gangs.

    In that case radio amateurs and other radio operators would hopefully already have established a communications network. It might be nice to use it to continue our philosophical discussion with other Avalonians as to why the break down has occurred, argue that it's all been planned by the Illuminati to bring in the New World Order or that the aliens are coming to our rescue any day now, but in reality I think we'll have more pressing needs...

    Nick

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    An 18ft pole antenna like these will get you a bit of range with your CB radio, obviously not much use if mobile communications is what you are after:

    http://www.kcb.co.uk/shop2/contents/..._antennas.html

    Sited as high as you safely can get it.

    CB isn't going to be much use for long range comms tho and not many people will have it in the UK.

    Hog.
    Last edited by Hogswitch; 7th September 2014 at 12:13.

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    Ok ,
    Then , why does Bill want to get a radio , or be prepared for communication?

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    Quote Posted by Nick Matkin (here)
    Firstly the true risk of such an event must be assessed. I think various agencies have done that. Opinions vary from 'inevitable' from the conspiracy bunch, to 'possible but very unlikely' which is where I place myself.

    Solar activity is probably the most likely cause of a technological breakdown - see Carrington Event. Unfortunately no one knows how often those could occur.

    Perhaps the other most likely cause of a societal breakdown is spread of a disease (or fear of spread) where people just stay indoors at home - including power workers - so the lights go out.

    All events are low risk, high impact, so it would be prudent to have a plan, but not lie awake each night worrying about it.

    Most Avalonians are sensibly aware, but like any group of people there are those who see fear and conspiracy under every stone, which I don't believe is helpful.

    So to answer your question about communications; amateur radio operators on this forum could possibly establish some form of international communications if there are enough, but think about it; if there were to be a complete societal breakdown, do you really think Avalonians will be worrying because we can't communicate with each other any more? I think I'd be more interested in locating clean water, getting my medications, and keeping my local community safe from marauding armed gangs.

    In that case radio amateurs and other radio operators would hopefully already have established a communications network. It might be nice to use it to continue our philosophical discussion with other Avalonians as to why the break down has occurred, argue that it's all been planned by the Illuminati to bring in the New World Order or that the aliens are coming to our rescue any day now, but in reality I think we'll have more pressing needs...

    Nick
    What you're saying makes sense but there should be at least one person in any given local cluster of people who's a ham operator or has a CB to be able to contact people in other local communities, even if the radio can only go as far as 10 or 20 miles, right?

    Anyway, this most recent solar flare is unsettling.
    Last edited by Roisin; 11th September 2014 at 09:25.

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    For any 'preppers' out there who want to seriously consider communications between hubs, I have recently had a useful experience.

    With only one watt of RF (easily acquired from a small solar panel or 5 D-cells) and a discrete antenna hidden in the loft, I have repeatedly made two-way communication into Eastern Europe in the past few weeks. The only drawback being that it was in Morse Code on short wave. However...

    Equipment able to send and receive Morse is exceptionally small and simple. Effective communication across hundreds of miles is easily made with transmitter powers of only a couple of watts. Computer-based sending and receiving programmes are widely available, but of course that extra equipment requires power. (And if you're going to use computers, much faster data communication modes than Morse Code are available, but with the added equipment complexity and power consumption too.)

    The fact that hardly anyone is able to receive and understand Morse Code now is a double-edged sword; it makes it secure, but unless you intend computer sending and receiving, you need to find a proficient human at each end! Layers of encryption can of course also be added for additional security.

    Just a thought anyway...

    Nick

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    Default Re: Communication after society breakdown

    If you're broadcasting any kind of radio signals then hopefully there are no militaries around hunting civilians and/or rounding them up for camps.

    Granted that that's not a problem, of course radio communications would be fine. If it would be a potential danger then I agree with the poster above about leaving notes behind or simply discussing plans in advance.

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    Lightbulb Re: Communication after society breakdown



    Bumping this - if WW3 hits (like if the Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group is hit by Russian missiles for instance or something as comparably as insane) the internet may be severely compromised to the point of non-usability. As well as 'reporting sites' maybe compromised, hijacked, psyop'd. One can use their imagination - the points in the thread here looked like a good review for alternative communications.

    See this post also for the MARS network and that concept:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1107108
    Last edited by Bob; 11th April 2018 at 22:48.

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