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Thread: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by AriG (here)

    Flash,

    I don’t think you interpreted the language incorrectly at all.
    Hi AriG

    Did you happen to see this post by AutumnW?

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)

    Yes, I should have edited it more carefully. If I had I would have more clearly stated it was white supremacists I was referring to.
    Yes.......
    “The World is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.”
    Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by AriG (here)

    Flash,

    I don’t think you interpreted the language incorrectly at all.
    Hi AriG

    Did you happen to see this post by AutumnW?

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)

    Yes, I should have edited it more carefully. If I had I would have more clearly stated it was white supremacists I was referring to.
    Yes.......
    Great! Then I am sure you will appreciate that AutumnW is actually delineating quite clearly that it was white supremacists that she is referring to.


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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Great! Then I am sure you will appreciate that AutumnW is actually delineating quite clearly that it was white supremacists that she is referring to.
    "Delineating"??? Seriously??? Isn't there a more anti-septic euphemism for vituperative behavior??? And let's remember, she wasn't "delineating" all white supremacists, just the "pimply assed ones."

    Not sure why everyone has to soften or reinterpret her language, she's not an invalid. In fact, she is quite masterful in her use of language and innuendo. If she can start fires, she is quite capable of putting them out too.





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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Great! Then I am sure you will appreciate that AutumnW is actually delineating quite clearly that it was white supremacists that she is referring to.
    "Delineating"??? Seriously??? Isn't there a more anti-septic euphemism for vituperative behavior??? And let's remember, she wasn't "delineating" all white supremacists, just the "pimply assed ones."

    Not sure why everyone has to soften or reinterpret her language, she's not an invalid. In fact, she is quite masterful in her use of language and innuendo. If she can start fires, she is quite capable of putting them out too.

    I'm not trying to soften or reinterpret Autumn's language at all. I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly' and if you look upstream Kryztian at post #170 this is exactly what AutumnW said.
    I'm really just trying to prevent further miscommunications and misinterpretations.
    Last edited by Constance; 22nd May 2019 at 06:46. Reason: clarity

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly'
    Yes, its almost 4am and I am also scratching my head too. I am wondering what she was able 'to describe so very exactly'? Was it the part where she described people as "Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning." or was it the pimply ass part? Oh, but she is just describing white supremacist people, not all white people! And who does she "delineate" as a white supremacist? Well, anyone who watched the video and didn't completely deplore would also be a white supremacist by the way she continually tried to pigeon hole me. I didn't take it as a personal offense when she said this words, but then she tried to pigeon hole me into this category I think I am completely entitled to.

    Are we really supposed to bow down in adoration towards Autumn for her post #170 like it is significantly contrite? Yes, it's the one time her mouth wasn't firing off insults and innuendos, but it is just an attempt to escape responsibility for the hurt she caused and is far from commerurate from the insult she created.

    Why you expect us all to show such love and understanding to someone who behaves so viciously is beyond me.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I raise a glass of pure water, toasting and saluting two passionately anti-racist Avalon members, AutumnW and Flash.

    As Cool Hand Luke's nemesis prison warden said, "What we've got here is failure to communicate."

    OK, here are the sentences: "It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning."

    It is left a bit grammatically wanting in identifying the subject of the comment, and (obviously) somewhat open for misinterpretation. It's not about "white people." I understand it, but allow me to play grammar police (editor?) and try to help to identify and specify which specific group of people (white supremacists) are being blasted - but keeping the clever aquatic wordplay.

    original phrase:
    whenever white people agitate for genetic purity
    could have been:
    whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity
    or
    whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
    or
    whenever those white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
    and then, rephrasing, to identify the subject more clearly:
    whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity
    ...and then the full sentences become:
    It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.
    and to complete the grammar policing, combine into one sentence:
    It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them: pink, hairless, bloated, not bright, and thrashing about like they are drowning.
    That let's the reader know that it is an intentionally racist group, "white supremacists", and not "white people" that are being blasted (and, in my opinion, deservedly.) Actually, I consider white supremacists to be a dangerous group of miscreants, and AutumnW's mockery is tame in comparison to a full intellectual deconstruction of their mental pathology.
    Gosh, I never ever understood Autumn was talking about White Supremacists. Her/his comment are still harsh, but it is different (theirs are harsher). I sincerely would never have guessed in view of may abilities to read - gosh I have to revise the way I read English.

    I read that she was talking about the whole white race.

    Either Autumns writing mishaps, or my misunderstanding of the English language.

    Please fellows, we are not all English speaking around here. When there is misunderstanding, please express yourself better to correct the situation instead of giving answers continuing the fights.

    Thanks Dennis for clarifying. The most intelligent of us is you!!!!
    I dont think you need to change the way you read Flash.

    Honestly, the way it was written was really confusing and I had to stop and do many rereads just to make sure I actually understood what they(i use they because I was/am not sure of the sex of AutumnW but for me it doesnt matter really) were really intending.
    Dennis did an excellent job of really making it very clear.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    I appreciate the energy spent here in clarifying the nature of each person who has contributed to the recent discussion in this thread. Beautiful souls on a journey to understanding. Text remains one of the most difficult areas of translation but care has been taken to clarify meaning on this topic, one of the most important confronting the human family at this juncture in our planetary history. It is true, people who share a common cause need to do what they must to avoid the "circular firing squad". Kudos and many blessings.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Is this fellow a white supremacist, Voice?
    Well he's white, doesn't have a genocidal self-hatred complex, so yeah, he probably is.

    So tell me more about the disgusting, pink, bloated bodies that white supremacists have, you sweet old "anti-racist," you.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    I'm not trying to soften or reinterpret Autumn's language at all. I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly' and if you look upstream Kryztian at post #170 this is exactly what AutumnW said.
    I'm really just trying to prevent further miscommunications and misinterpretations.
    I wonder if I made similarly degrading descriptions about the bodies of people from other races, if the staff here at Avalon would be bending over backwards to reinterpret my words for me too.

    I think we all know the answer to that.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    AutumnW is not a racist. What she's posting is factually slightly off and cherry picking but I don't find it offensive. We very much need to be able to poke fun at each other without exploding and 'calling them out.' I will say, you should definitely get to know folks before 'busting balls' but in these forums I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist. I'm sure there are inherent prejudices and biases but I doubt there is downright racism.

    I think it's best to work on ourselves so that we don't have a hair trigger on our tempers. Arguing with someone rarely changes minds. It's like impossible to 'be right' in these debates. Just when you got it all figured out someone comes along, says one line, then you feel dumb.
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist.
    Based on whose definition of racism? Because to me, when you claim to be insulting supremacists, but then insult them based on the appearance of their body, which they hold in common with everyone who belongs to that race, I don't think the people posting on this thread even know what "racism" or "anti-racism" mean.

    Imagine I said, "I hate Arab supremacists," and then began insulting them based on their greasy, olive-colored bodies and black, stubbly faces. Does that pass the sniff test to you? Should I expect the Avalon staff to come in and "clarify" my comment and assure everyone that no offense was committed, all while patting each other on the back to reassure themselves about how not-racist they all are?

    I don't think people even know what racism is anymore, and this is clown world in here.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Is this fellow a white supremacist, Voice?
    Well he's white, doesn't have a genocidal self-hatred complex, so yeah, he probably is.

    So tell me more about the disgusting, pink, bloated bodies that white supremacists have, you sweet old "anti-racist," you.
    Back on the playground in elementary school, one kid might call another kid a "poop head." Yet, there is actually no poop on the kid's head!

    On the freeway, one driver might call another driver an "asshole", yet the offending driver's anal sphincter is not really displayed, nor is it the source of the problem.

    "Your mother wears combat boots!" - (that insult must have been from before the military welcomed women to kill the damn foreigners that have the audacity to have built their homes on our oil!) But the pronouncement is probably almost always incorrect!

    My girlfriend from 40 years ago (who had escaped East Germany as a child) taught me to say a German insult, saufafluctahundt! (no idea how to really spell it), which (according to her) means sow pig dog. Yet, no farm animals are actually present!

    Thus is the nature of insults. Not literal, but metaphorical or allegorical.

    So, what is a serviceable insult to white supremacists? For me personally, it could not be actual words, but rather the sounds, sights, and smells of vomiting. Words are inadequate.

    Based on the Aryan (white supremacist) notion of the genetic superiority of the "white race", AutumnW chose to poke fun at the white supremacists desired gene pool, and word-played with it as an aquatic theme. It's an insult, not a doctoral dissertation, and not to be taken literally.

    I could twist this on you and ask if you are really defending white supremacists. I really don't think you are, but "The lady [man] doth protest too much, methinks", of others mocking white supremacists. If you keep up the pearl-clutching over white supremacists being insulted, I think you should be prepared to directly answer two questions: Are you a white supremacist? Do you support white supremacy? Even though you and I have some major differences of opinion on various subjects, I am confident that your answers would be "no" and "no." Prove me right.

    ================

    This thread has strayed far off course, and I will powwow with the mods as to slicing off all of the off-topic and barely-on-topic posts of late, into another thread. For the moment, I'd say for everyone to feel free to add whatever you feel is important to express, even if off-topic, knowing (assuming) that it will be split off this thread. However, I would ask everyone to take a deep breath, recognize that the other people posting are not your enemies but rather are your compatriots fighting against our perception and understanding of evil. We're on the same side - do stop and publicly recognize that fact.


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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist.
    Based on whose definition of racism? Because to me, when you claim to be insulting supremacists, but then insult them based on the appearance of their body, which they hold in common with everyone who belongs to that race, I don't think the people posting on this thread even know what "racism" or "anti-racism" mean.

    Imagine I said, "I hate Arab supremacists," and then began insulting them based on their greasy, olive-colored bodies and black, stubbly faces. Does that pass the sniff test to you? Should I expect the Avalon staff to come in and "clarify" my comment and assure everyone that no offense was committed, all while patting each other on the back to reassure themselves about how not-racist they all are?

    I don't think people even know what racism is anymore, and this is clown world in here.
    Care to comment on the rest of my post?
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    AutumnW is not a racist. What she's posting is factually slightly off and cherry picking but I don't find it offensive. We very much need to be able to poke fun at each other without exploding and 'calling them out.' I will say, you should definitely get to know folks before 'busting balls' but in these forums I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist. I'm sure there are inherent prejudices and biases but I doubt there is downright racism.
    Comment was not on topic.
    Last edited by Hervé; 22nd May 2019 at 18:24.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly'
    Yes, its almost 4am and I am also scratching my head too. I am wondering what she was able 'to describe so very exactly'? Was it the part where she described people as "Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning." or was it the pimply ass part? Oh, but she is just describing white supremacist people, not all white people! And who does she "delineate" as a white supremacist? Well, anyone who watched the video and didn't completely deplore would also be a white supremacist by the way she continually tried to pigeon hole me. I didn't take it as a personal offense when she said this words, but then she tried to pigeon hole me into this category I think I am completely entitled to.

    Are we really supposed to bow down in adoration towards Autumn for her post #170 like it is significantly contrite? Yes, it's the one time her mouth wasn't firing off insults and innuendos, but it is just an attempt to escape responsibility for the hurt she caused and is far from commerurate from the insult she created.

    Why you expect us all to show such love and understanding to someone who behaves so viciously is beyond me.
    Hi Kryztian,

    After sleeping on this I realize now how I offended you. And I DO apologize for not recognizing sooner how you misinterpreted what I wrote. I have to edit and then re-edit what I write for clarity. Obviously. I have managed to convince not just you but another poster as well that I am an evil genius, it appears. Believe me when I say I NEVER meant to offend you personally or call your character into question. I use the word, "compelled," a LOT when I refer to my own desires. I feel compelled to watch this or do that, or whatever. I don't generally mean that I have OCD and have an unhealthy preoccupation with doing a,b or c.

    When I commented that you felt compelled to watch videos crafted by fascists. I followed that statement with the qualifiers that you are obviously able to extract useful information from them--thus diamonds out of dunghills. I think this is a fair statement and one that doesn't discredit you. Let me be clear again. I won't watch videos of this nature because I am not able to vet the rest of the information. I should have also included that I am somewhat suggestible and don't trust myself to watch this kind of thing. I feel such animosity towards Israel I don't want to watch anything that might carry that animosity into the Jewish community.

    As far as "up to and including the fact that it was Jews who started the whole holocaust ball rolling," or words to that effect. No, of course you didn't say that. But it's fairly certain if the film was an alt right themed, fascist production, that that idea is in there. It's very common among the extreme neo-Nazi crowd.

    So there you go. Now, perhaps we can be friends. If something comes up again where you feel offended by me, please PM me and we can sort it out behind the scenes. I am most amenable to people asking me, "did you mean this or that," rather than unleashing the hounds of Hell on me on a public forum. Super happy to retract almost anything and apologize for misunderstandings or where I have been unfair.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Thus is the nature of insults. Not literal, but metaphorical or allegorical.

    So, what is a serviceable insult to white supremacists? For me personally, it could not be actual words, but rather the sounds, sights, and smells of vomiting. Words are inadequate.
    As it happens, I actually literally have white skin that tends to pink when I'm not tan, so what Autumn posted about people with white skin is not allegorical or metaphorical to me. You don't have to be a white supremacist to have white skin, in case you forgot. And what Autumn posted was clearly directed towards a race of people. Not supremacists, not an ideology, but the appearance of white bodies was the object of Autumn's degrading comments. Yet "for some reason" some of you mods don't seem to get that, though I'm sure you would very quickly if the shoe were on a different colored foot. I would say I find it "interesting" how it took no time at all for you guys to show up in here to defend those same degrading comments, but of course we all know which side of the line each other sits on, and of course I'm not actually surprised by what you're doing at all.

    I don't believe that Bill Ryan would actually support his moderators defending anti-white racism, so why else would you rush onto this thread to "clarify" and defend Autumn's comments, as if there might be something wrong with them?

    Quote Based on the Aryan (white supremacist) notion of the genetic superiority of the "white race", AutumnW chose to poke fun at the white supremacists desired gene pool, and word-played with it as an aquatic theme. It's an insult, not a doctoral dissertation, and not to be taken literally.
    Black Panthers are also ethnic nationalists and supremacists, but I hope you would agree that the existence of the Black Panthers does not give me carte blanche to insult the black gene pool and what black people look like. Right? Or do you need more room to double-down this double standard? Let me describe what the Asian or Latino gene pools look like while I'm at it and you keep explaining to me how fine this is, and how thick everyone's skin is.

    Are you one of those people who goes around claiming that it's impossible for minorities to be racist?

    Quote I could twist this on you and ask if you are really defending white supremacists. I really don't think you are, but "The lady [man] doth protest too much, methinks", of others mocking white supremacists.
    You and all the other leftists accusing everyone to the right of Stalin being "literally Hitler" or a "Nazi" or "white supremacist" is actually making these terms so watered-down and meaningless that I don't even care what insults you hurl at me anymore. If it gets your dopamine flowing to call other people white supremacists, then please, let me be the target of your anti-white hate. In the mean time, please be aware of what you are doing to empower actual white supremacists, by perpetually and antagonistically pushing normal people into their camp as if you SJWs are just "the future" by default, and no backlash could possibly come of racially antagonizing white people.

    Quote Are you a white supremacist? Do you support white supremacy? Even though you and I have some major differences of opinion on various subjects, I am confident that your answers would be "no" and "no." Prove me right.
    Give me a definition of "white supremacist" that actually makes sense. If white people as a whole are allowed by established society to come under blatant racist attacks (such as Autumn's, which you are other mods are here defending without even being asked), and I defend myself and other white people against them, and you and others in the SJW cult define that as white "supremacy," do you really think that is going to dissuade people from standing up for what is actually right? That seems to be the big gamble you leftists are taking, and I have to say, current social trends aren't looking pretty for that strategy.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 22nd May 2019 at 22:38.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    You are conflating the mockery of white supremacists, neo-nazis, avowed racists, with the mockery of all melanin-challenged people. Stop that. It's called 'putting words in someone's mouth.'

    This is called a "strawman argument": "If white people as a whole are allowed by established society to come under racist attacks..." because that isn't in the equation, it's just conflated hand-wringing, pearl-clutching, and fear-mongering. You're just making something up and then arguing against it. Strawman.

    And just wow on your inability to simply answer those two questions with a simple unqualified "no." You are also name-calling me a "SJW" and a cultist and a leftist, I guess in an attempt to further turn away from the (just slightly on-topic due to the lineage from hitler to today's white supremacists) actual subject at hand. If you were old enough in 1963, you know where you were when JFK was taken out; you certainly know where you were on the morning of 9/11, and you certainly do know if you support white supremacy. That's "white supremacy", not "being white/Caucasian."


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    Constance (22nd May 2019), Ken (23rd May 2019), Praxis (23rd May 2019), Rahkyt (23rd May 2019), Wind (23rd May 2019)

  31. Link to Post #198
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    I'm not trying to soften or reinterpret Autumn's language at all. I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly' and if you look upstream Kryztian at post #170 this is exactly what AutumnW said.
    I'm really just trying to prevent further miscommunications and misinterpretations.
    I wonder if I made similarly degrading descriptions about the bodies of people from other races, if the staff here at Avalon would be bending over backwards to reinterpret my words for me too.

    I think we all know the answer to that.
    I'll try and say this another way Voice from the Mountains. I was pointing to another post, post #170 upstream to demonstrate what correction AutumnW had made to her post. An example would be say, if Joe Bloggs had written a post saying 'Onion' but had then made the correction to 'Red Onion'. It was just a point of reference. Nothing more, nothing less. I am not trying to reinterpret anyone's words. I don't have any agendas. I'm really just trying to do the best I can as a mod.

    I am as aware as anyone else how sentences or words can be misconstrued or misinterpreted and so my apologies if what I said was not as clear as it could have been.

    I want to reiterate what Dennis said upstream because it is worthwhile repeating.

    Recognize that the other people posting are not your enemies but rather are your compatriots fighting against our perception and understanding of evil. We're on the same side - do stop and publicly recognize that fact.

  32. Link to Post #199
    Avalon Member Kryztian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Dear AutumnW:

    Thank you for your last post, for which I am most grateful and relieved. I do appreciate your words and the time and energy you took to write it.

    To say, however, that I misinterpreted what you wrote, is not to fully accept responsibility for your words here. Your language is filled with colorful similes and metaphors, and if they weren’t so hostile and directed at real people with real feelings, they would actually be quite humorous. The language is also quite vague and open to a lot of different interpretations. When you address me as “Dude” or refer to the intellectual content of my life as “dunghills” or use many of the language choices that you did in this thread, there is a clear and unmistakable tone of anger, hostility and disdain that pretty much insures that most people are going to interpret your words in the most negative way possible, and your vague and colorful language leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

    As far as my “unleashing the hounds of Hell” upon you in public, I think you might want to review this thread. At this moment, I don’t have the stomach to do this, but as I recollect, most of your post were general assertions of who I was and what kind of person I was and what kind of Holocaust denying videos I like to watch. Most of my posts were only criticizing you in terms of the language you were directing at me here in this thread, and since I had not had much interaction with you on Avalon I made no assumption as to who you were outside this thread. I feel no need to retract any of the language I made or make any claims that my words how meanings which could have been misunderstood. I think my word choices were pretty good, considering, that I felt, in my opinion, that it was I who was battling the “hounds of Hell” at the time. This is not to say that I don’t get emotional and unreasonable and my word choices aren’t always perfect, and if I did say something untrue, untoward or undeserved, please let me know and, if I agree, I will gladly apologize. Perhaps I could have been a little less abrupt when I disagreed with you about whether the video discussed in this thread should have any value. For that I do apologize.

    As for your suggestion that we now be friends, I don’t think that either of us could sincerely do that right now, considering our disagreement as to what actually happened here. But we can always agree to disagree, and we can certainly be polite and even look forward to having some interesting discussions and even have fun debating from different points of view. This becomes a whole lot easier when you take Adolph Hitler and revisionist WW II history off the table. So I sincerely hope that we can look forward to that! And while I don’t agree with all of your words here, I do thank you.

    Sincerely,

    Kryztian

  33. Link to Post #200
    Avalon Member Kryztian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    This thread has strayed far off course, and I will powwow with the mods as to slicing off all of the off-topic and barely-on-topic posts of late, into another thread. For the moment, I'd say for everyone to feel free to add whatever you feel is important to express, even if off-topic, knowing (assuming) that it will be split off this thread. However, I would ask everyone to take a deep breath, recognize that the other people posting are not your enemies but rather are your compatriots fighting against our perception and understanding of evil. We're on the same side - do stop and publicly recognize that fact.
    Interestingly, I started off on another thread in a conversation with the now departed (from this forum) Didgevillage. His comments about the Holocaust made it off topic, but responses were necessary, so I requested the posts be moved to a new or other thread and I should have been more specific about which one!!! This thread may have seemed like a logical choice at them time, but I was a little bit taken aback when I suddenly found my self on the Internet in the midst of a thread whose first two words were "Adolf Hitler". What could possibly go wrong!?! Thanks a whole heck of a lot for that one Bill Ryan! I will buy you a drink next time we meet!!! You really delivered on that ancient blessing of "May you live in interesting times!".

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