+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1 3 12 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 224

Thread: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

  1. Link to Post #41
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    58
    Posts
    22,337
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,247 times in 18,668 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote PS ~
    i hope there is not a unconscious intent to distract others from viewing this material and deciding for themselves ?
    I'm aware of that as well, there was a long indepth thread put up about
    this a couple of months ago and it was difficult not to get polarised on
    parts of the discussion. I even tried listening to Mein Kampf , I listened
    to the first hour it was heavy going. Though I will finish it at some time.




    Published on 4 Jan 2014


    An autobiographical manifesto by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, in which
    he outlines his political ideology and future plans for Germany.
    Volume 1 of Mein Kampf was published in 1925 and Volume 2 in
    1926.The book was edited by the former Hieronymite friar Bernhard
    Stempfle who later died during the Night of the Long Knives

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    Delight (20th August 2014), Flash (20th August 2014), giovonni (20th August 2014), loungelizard (20th August 2014), seko (22nd August 2014)

  3. Link to Post #42
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    1,452
    Thanked 802 times in 250 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by aheb (here)
    The reason that you have films like this is because people are not allowed to discuss the holocaust, and if you disagree with it in certain places in Europe you can be imprisoned. It's very similar in that sense to 9/11 if they just had a very public enquiry were all the facts were published then there would be nothing left to have conspiracy theories about. The fact that they don't will encourage speculation, and may indeed lead to an outcome that the people denying the enquiries really don't want.
    Hello Aheb

    At the risk of sounding nit picky…and apologies in advance for the length of this post and the ranting tone but I think it's really important to be precise about this subject.

    It's not true to state that "people are not allowed to discuss the holocaust". They are. Neither is it true that, "and if you disagree with it in certain places in Europe you can be imprisoned. ".

    Holocaust denial is not a matter of "disagreeing with it". It is the assertion that either it never happened, or that the events were trivial.
    Lots of people "disagree with it": I think only 9 people have ever been imprisoned for denial in Europe. That's not exactly repressive. People are perfectly free to challenge truisms, ask questions, raise concerns, refute and debate without risk of legal proceedings.

    Disputing certain historical facts is not a form of hate. Neither does disputing constitute denial: evidence-based claims should be probed and disseminated.

    The problem with Holocaust denial is that, in general, it is often not innocent enquiry. It is part of a propaganda movement that seeks to rewrite history, to deny the reality of the systematic mass murder of six million Jews and millions of others deemed ‘inferior’ by the Nazi regime. The problem is that Holocaust denial denies history, reality and suffering, and sets the scene for legitimising other genocides.

    Holocaust denial is legal in 221 countries throughout the world. 14 countries (I think) in Europe have laws that attempt to combat denial, approval, justification or minimalisation of genocide, often under the laws regarding incitement to hatred and assaults on human dignity. These laws do not prevent people questioning the events of the holocaust. They are an attempt to draw attention to those whose questioning is disingenuous, and constitutes falsehoods with the aim of rewriting history.

    How do you envisage your idea of a "public enquiry"? How would that differ from the 4 year long Nuremberg trials? Those arrested stood trial in public for the allegations made against them, and were given the opportunity to defend themselves. The trials may not have been perfect, but they are a readily available public record.

    Is all the photographic and written evidence that has been catalogued and archived for us all, as individuals, to examine freely, not enough? Documents showing evidence of personal culpability of Nazi leaders and ranking subordinates were discovered in huge numbers after the defeat of Nazi Germany. Such documents included architectural plans for the camps, engineering drafts, test results, accounting ledgers, railroad timetables, payroll records, commendations, orders, deportation lists, meticulously drawn-up death counts...

    There are films, videos, televised discussions, documentaries, books, essays, research papers, court records of trials of holocaust deniers, detailed analysis of claims, archaeological studies, forensic reports, thousands of websites…put all these together and you have a public enquiry.

    You have to do the work: you have to carry out your own enquiry. The Holocaust is one of the best documented genocides in history, with a wide array of evidence documenting virtually every aspect of it - it's all out there in the public domain.

    End of rant

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    aheb (22nd August 2014), Cidersomerset (21st August 2014), giovonni (20th August 2014)

  5. Link to Post #43
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Question Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    While the Jewish Holocaust was truly tragic in human carnage ... Even more compelling in context and proportion are the total numbers of human loses ... This is the real back story of this world waring period ... Which has been all but forgotten in world remembrance. For those interested here is the Wikipedia break down on World War II casualties
    Last edited by giovonni; 20th August 2014 at 19:36. Reason: spelling

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to giovonni For This Post:

    Cidersomerset (24th August 2014)

  7. Link to Post #44
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,561
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,750 times in 8,858 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    While the Jewish Holocaust was truly tragic in human carnage ... Even more compelling in context and proportion are the total numbers of human loses ... This is the real back story of this world waring period ... Which has been all but forgotten in world remembrance. For those interested here is the Wikipedia break down on World War II casualties
    very obvious, that in terms of total dept, the Soviet Union had the most of it and its border countries, for more than 26 millions in Russia for 13 % of its population dead. But USSR is not the highest one not in proportion of the total population,

    In proportion of the total population before the war, it is the people from Jewish religion who have had the biggest toll, around 50% of its population.

    Then Germany itself with the countries or régions elsewhere where there was German population around 10% of its population dead.

    Then, Asian countries have had the most in proportion to population.

    Very interesting

    Although the most touched countries were in the Russian sphere, in proportion to its population, it is the Jewish that had the most casualties. And they were not a nation, but from everywhere.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    giovonni (20th August 2014), Kryztian (31st August 2014), Sophocles (20th August 2014)

  9. Link to Post #45
    UK Avalon Member
    Join Date
    2nd March 2014
    Age
    64
    Posts
    254
    Thanks
    304
    Thanked 589 times in 200 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    I never had any interest in Hitler or that time in history, and it is only recently that I have become interested and only from the very alternative viewpoint of magic, the occult etc. However, what I notice with agendas is that most people tend to hold one viewpoint that they can't shake.
    An example would be politics. I can call cameron and the conservatives from dusk till dawn and few will mind, however if I do the same to labour there will be people who will agree with my first viewpoint but not my second. Similarly if I said socialism was evil people may think me a nazi.
    In truth I don't believe any political party is any use until the fractional reserve banking system is changed.whether you call it labour or conservative......we have facists at the helm

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aheb For This Post:

    Gardener (21st August 2014), giovonni (20th August 2014)

  11. Link to Post #46
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Question Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    My history lesson and take of the last hundred years is simply this ...

    If one is to believe one man (or small group of men) created the so called Nazi party ... Which came forth to infect first the country of Germany ... Creating a new nationalistic state ... Soon moving aggressively outwards ravaging most of Europe ... Seemingly with intention in uprooting and displacing the lives of many ... Then supposedly provoking and causing a deadly catastrophic World War ... Only shortly there after (the war) in seeding and commencing of a new nation state ... Started by another small group of men ... Who are now called Zionist .. Who which are displacing and uprooting the lives of many others ... Which appears to have again reared up that infection anew upon the Middle East ... That appears to be spreading outward throughout the entire world ... One might (can) assume and conclude ... There is a damming Human virus that is still alive - well and thriving again upon the earth.

    i can only urge all here to read, view and listen to all that you can ... while the materials are still available for consumption ... So that we (humans) lest not forget the name of this virus called Tyranny ... Before again its to late.
    Last edited by giovonni; 21st August 2014 at 04:11.

  12. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to giovonni For This Post:

    Curt (21st August 2014), Flash (21st August 2014), Gardener (21st August 2014), karelia (21st August 2014), loungelizard (22nd August 2014), seko (22nd August 2014)

  13. Link to Post #47
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Lightbulb Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    While the Jewish Holocaust was truly tragic in human carnage ... Even more compelling in context and proportion are the total numbers of human loses ... This is the real back story of this world waring period ... Which has been all but forgotten in world remembrance. For those interested here is the Wikipedia break down on World War II casualties
    very obvious, that in terms of total dept, the Soviet Union had the most of it and its border countries, for more than 26 millions in Russia for 13 % of its population dead. But USSR is not the highest one not in proportion of the total population,

    In proportion of the total population before the war, it is the people from Jewish religion who have had the biggest toll, around 50% of its population.

    Then Germany itself with the countries or régions elsewhere where there was German population around 10% of its population dead.

    Then, Asian countries have had the most in proportion to population.

    Very interesting

    Although the most touched countries were in the Russian sphere, in proportion to its population, it is the Jewish that had the most casualties. And they were not a nation, but from everywhere.
    We should also mention the often still forgotten and forsaken Roma people (Gypsies)

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to giovonni For This Post:

    karelia (21st August 2014), loungelizard (22nd August 2014)

  15. Link to Post #48
    Avalon Member Andrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Posts
    306
    Thanks
    907
    Thanked 755 times in 224 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    You could read a paragraph or just watch the first five minutes... no need for an explanation.



    Sure someone will attempt character assasination on the speaker, if they cant attack the info they attack the person.

    Yes Irving retracted what he said once.. I wonder why? maybe he was giving his family a rest?

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Andrew For This Post:

    aheb (22nd August 2014), giovonni (21st August 2014), karelia (21st August 2014)

  17. Link to Post #49
    UK Avalon Member
    Join Date
    2nd March 2014
    Age
    64
    Posts
    254
    Thanks
    304
    Thanked 589 times in 200 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by Andrew (here)
    You could read a paragraph or just watch the first five minutes... no need for an explanation.



    Sure someone will attempt character assasination on the speaker, if they cant attack the info they attack the person.

    Yes Irving retracted what he said once.. I wonder why? maybe he was giving his family a rest?

    I think the retraction came after his prison sentence for being a holocaust denier.......seems some people fear free speech

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to aheb For This Post:

    giovonni (21st August 2014)

  19. Link to Post #50
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Lightbulb Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote I think the retraction came after his prison sentence for being a holocaust denier.......seems some people fear free speech
    Imprisonment has been known to have that effect.

  20. Link to Post #51
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    1,452
    Thanked 802 times in 250 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew

    I watched the first 5 minutes on the video as you suggested, Andrew.

    David irving talks of "the most telling incident" that happened in his life. I think this is a perfect example of the way Irving can spin a web of lies. He was never involved in producing a documentary with the BBC. The BBC producer who approached him to appear in a documentary he was making is Nick Fraser, entitled "Journey to the Far Right".

    Irving's story about being banned from Auschwitz didn't make to sense to me: in 2010 there was a kerfuffle in the media when Irving announced that he planned to lead a tour group to Auschwitz and was told by the museum that he was welcome to visit as an individual, but not to lead a group as only their guides have authority to do that. Why would they encourage him to visit in 2010 when they supposedly banned him in 1999?

    So I wrote to Nick Fraser, author of The Voice of Hatred, and the producer of the BBC programme, to verify Irving's story. This was the gist of Nick's reply:

    "It's nonsense!"

    It's pretty ironic that Irving is complaining about publishers being denied free speech, when he was the one who filed a lawsuit against Deborah Lipstadt for exercising her right to free speech by referring to him as a holocaust denier…he lost.

    As for the "increasing number of otherwise innocent citizens were cast into prison" - spin again! Only 9 people have ever been imprisoned under these laws. Hardly an avalanche.

    Accusations of suppression, of denial of the right to free speech, of smear campaigns, of persecution, of loss of academic positions and physical violence are perennial complaints by the "revisionist community" (I can't call them "revisionist historians" as none of them holds a PhD in history)… Classic victim mentality.

    All this alleged persecution hasn't stopped them writing books, touring the lecture halls, attending rallies, participating in debates, making videos, setting up websites - as far as I can see, they're pretty active at getting their message across. Irving is still making a comfortable living touring the private lecture circuit. For all his complaining, he's doing very nicely thank you, and owns houses in the UK and Key West, despite having been declared bankrupt in 2002.

    Personally, I'm not completely convinced that criminalising those who deny existing knowledge of historical events is the way to go - that could be a whole new thread! - but I understand why these laws have been brought about.

    It is very much down to cultural context. Laws exist in 14 European countries which were directly affected by the Nazi ideology, and there is a need of these particular countries to confront their past, and to deter those who seek to justify or glorify it by rewriting history and ignoring the weight of evidence to the contrary.

    Brains far bigger than ours are constantly discussing the balance between the right to express one's views in public, and prohibition of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred. They will continue to discuss this and it's well worth reading their opinions if you want to have an open minded approach to this. But it seems that the laws are not working: religious hatred is on the rise in Europe and there is an ongoing assault on the narratives of historical genocides.

    It's important to understand the distinction between historical revisionism - the legitimate scholastic re-examination of existing knowledge about a historical event as evidence is uncovered - and the words of those who call themselves revisionists, when they are actually concerned with distorting the historical record (some prefer the title "negationists").
    Last edited by Billy; 22nd August 2014 at 11:58.

  21. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    aheb (22nd August 2014), Delight (22nd August 2014), giovonni (22nd August 2014), learninglight (24th August 2014)

  22. Link to Post #52
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Question Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew
    Just as long as you and perhaps Andrew, do not take it in that direction ... Though i think it is safe to say at this time in post WW2 history, that anyone who believes ... Or calls themselves a holocaust denier ... Is not of a rational mind.

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to giovonni For This Post:

    Delight (22nd August 2014), loungelizard (22nd August 2014)

  24. Link to Post #53
    UK Avalon Member
    Join Date
    2nd March 2014
    Age
    64
    Posts
    254
    Thanks
    304
    Thanked 589 times in 200 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    Quote Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew
    Just as long as you and perhaps Andrew, do not take it in that direction ... Though i think it is safe to say at this time in post WW2 history, that anyone who believes ... Or calls themselves a holocaust denier ... Is not of a rational mind.
    Surely that would depend upon what they were denying?.................If you look at that film it tells you that there was a massacre in Danzig which forced Germany to invade Poland, now I have never heard that before from any source and it casts an entirly different light on the subject.
    I remember years ago talking to a family member who had lived in Germany he had spoken to an ex SS officer and said to the guy that he thought that they had treated the jews very badly, the nazi replied " What could we do they were enemies in our midst? we asked the Americans t take them and thy refused"................only in the past couple of years has it been revealed that the Nazis did in fact ask the US to take the Jews and they refused
    I must make the point that I believe, as with Islam today, it was not the jews specifically but a small hard core of fanatics who give judaism a bad name.I know some people call them zionists, I think we all should and maybe find a new name for radicalised muslims.Jehadists has been used for them.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aheb For This Post:

    giovonni (22nd August 2014), loungelizard (23rd August 2014)

  26. Link to Post #54
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Thumbs up Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by aheb (here)
    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    Quote Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew
    Just as long as you and perhaps Andrew, do not take it in that direction ... Though i think it is safe to say at this time in post WW2 history, that anyone who believes ... Or calls themselves a holocaust denier ... Is not of a rational mind.
    Surely that would depend upon what they were denying?.................If you look at that film it tells you that there was a massacre in Danzig which forced Germany to invade Poland, now I have never heard that before from any source and it casts an entirly different light on the subject.
    I remember years ago talking to a family member who had lived in Germany he had spoken to an ex SS officer and said to the guy that he thought that they had treated the jews very badly, the nazi replied " What could we do they were enemies in our midst? we asked the Americans t take them and thy refused"................only in the past couple of years has it been revealed that the Nazis did in fact ask the US to take the Jews and they refused
    I must make the point that I believe, as with Islam today, it was not the jews specifically but a small hard core of fanatics who give judaism a bad name.I know some people call them zionists, I think we all should and maybe find a new name for radicalised muslims.Jehadists has been used for them.
    Tushay ...

    mr Aheb ...

    mr Loungelizard and i have (Pm'ed) in private in these regards ... Since apparently they both (he and Andrew) have had a history in discussing this subject matter ...

    To which he (Loungelizard) was very respectful and courtesy to me and the presented OP material on this thread. ... As i hope you will also be ...

    Note it is not for me to moderate any forum member in these regards ... Though being the OP presenter, i will monitor in that it stays focused on that original material ... In keeping a high level of purposeful energy on this thread, for sharing this sensitive information ... So that other members and visitors will feel comfortable and not be driven away in viewing this information.

    Last edited by giovonni; 22nd August 2014 at 15:00.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to giovonni For This Post:

    loungelizard (23rd August 2014)

  28. Link to Post #55
    UK Avalon Member
    Join Date
    2nd March 2014
    Age
    64
    Posts
    254
    Thanks
    304
    Thanked 589 times in 200 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    Tushay ...

    mr Aheb ...

    mr Loungelizard and i have (Pm'ed) in private in these regards ... Since apparently they both (he and Andrew) have had a history in discussing this subject matter ...

    To which he (Loungelizard) was very respectful and courtesy to me and the presented OP material on this thread. ... As i hope you will also be ...

    Note it is not for me to moderate any forum member in these regards ... Though being the OP presenter, i will monitor in that it stays focused on that original material ... In keeping a high level of purposeful energy on this thread, for sharing this sensitive information ... So that other members and visitors will feel comfortable and not be driven away in viewing this information.

    Firstly sorry to Mr.Loungelizard, I missed one of your posts directed at me. What is an op?

    but back on topic. In recent years I have come to question everything. 9/11, 7/7, the banking system, our government. To give you my perspective on where this all led me would be very difficult..........maybe if we all sat round in a pub and talked, but on a forum it is very difficult.
    Words have life and meanings of their own, and some words change over time......when I listen to the way my sons speak and hear old words used in a new and stranger context............so very often we do not convey what we mean.
    I believe that the powers that be , the illuminati if you will have an agenda that they wish to promote, a false narrative for the sheeple....so finding the true agenda, and the true narrative is very difficult. I don't believe all the things said about Hitler, but I don't think that he was a particularly nice guy either..in truth I think he would be a rather boring conversational partner..but if you are a "truther" then you must consider ideas that others don't.........in the UK we have idiot left wingers who shout facist or racist at anyone who argues with them....but when you ask them what a facist is, they seem to think it's a racist who likes uniforms and flags, and they never consider the crimes of Stalin who probably killed as many Jews as Hitler is credited with. I'm just happy to read anything that comes my way..........and I would love to learn more about the jewish religion and the kaballah etc.
    Last edited by Paul; 24th August 2014 at 04:20. Reason: fix quoting

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aheb For This Post:

    giovonni (22nd August 2014), loungelizard (23rd August 2014)

  30. Link to Post #56
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    OP = Opening Post

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to giovonni For This Post:

    aheb (22nd August 2014)

  32. Link to Post #57
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Posts
    22,426
    Thanks
    18,297
    Thanked 93,587 times in 20,439 posts

    Question Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Will share this here ... It is not directly connected to the opening post, but i feel this material expands on the influences prior to the Hitler era. It also addresses the conspiratorial connections to the turbulent times were living in ... Quite a tangled web it weaves ...

    Quote Posted by giovonni (here)
    interesting conspiratorial discussion ...

    From ~ Time Monk Radio

    David Livingstone: Illuminati Studies: Islam, Fascism and Secret Societies


    Quote Bio.

    David Livingstone was born in Montreal in 1966 of a Jamaican-Canadian father (a school teacher) and French Canadian mother. At age seven, he asked his parents who Plato and Socrates were. Told they were truthseekers, he was shocked. "You mean people don’t know what the truth is?" He resolved to find it out.

    Livingstone studied history as an undergraduate but dropped out in 1992 when he realized he was being indoctrinated. "When I read that the Indo European [Aryan] race emerged from the Caucuses, out of nowhere, I got suspicious, and began the 13 years of research that led to my first book, The Dying God: The Hidden History of Western Civilization."

    While writing that book, Livingstone paid his bills by planting trees in British Columbia and upholstering furniture in Montreal. Raised as an agnostic, he accepted Islam in 1992 after making a study of the major world religions. He married in 2000 and has three children.
    Published on Aug 22, 2014

    Last edited by giovonni; 23rd August 2014 at 16:11.

  33. Link to Post #58
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    1,452
    Thanked 802 times in 250 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Hello aheb, and thanks for explaining where you're coming from - it made interesting reading.

    Quote If you look at that film it tells you that there was a massacre in Danzig which forced Germany to invade Poland, now I have never heard that before from any source and it casts an entirly different light on the subject.
    I'm not sure what the Danzig massacre is, or which film you're referring to: I think it could either be the attack on the Danzig Post Office on 1st Sept 1939 by the SS and German police (this was premeditated had been planned in July 1939) sheer only 4 of the 52 Polish defenders survived OR Bloody Sunday, which is also known as the Bromberg Massacre (and for which there are vastly differing accounts - you have to read them all in a attempt to sort through the myths).

    Either way, the claim that it was events such as these that "forced Germany to invade Poland" is seriously skewed and obviously propaganda-based. Remember that the Nazi propaganda machine, run efficiently by Goebbels, was one of the main reasons for the Nazis gaining the power they had, holding on to it and being able to implement the policies they did. Reading this stuff is chilling…much of it has its roots in Mein Kampf. Here's an example of Hitler's comprehensive understanding of the power of suggestion and manipulation:

    "The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. "

    Quote " What could we do they were enemies in our midst?"
    What do you think that Nazi in your account meant by that statement?

    Quote "…only in the past couple of years has it been revealed that the Nazis did in fact ask the US to take the Jews and they refused"
    We have to be careful that, just because we personally haven't heard about something, does not mean that it isn't well documented, common knowledge among those who've been studying such material . The lack of response of the US (and other countries) is a fascinating subject that is well worth researching (read up on the Evian conference). in the light of prevailing antisemitism of the 1930s and a sustained economic depression. and a resulting reluctance to increase existing immigration quota.

    Prior to Kristalnacht and the establishing of the Nuremburg Laws, the Jews were allowed to leave - but only after they paid large sums of blood money were they issued with necessary documents.

    Some did leave - but after 1939, are you aware of how difficult the German state made it for them to do so? If you're interested, I have a PDF of the paperwork/charges/documentation they would have had to have acquired.

    Quote "I don't believe all the things said about Hitler…"
    When it comes to the distortion of historical evidence by those who deny the reality of the Holocaust, it's vital to remember that this is one of the most meticulously documented events of recent times - a lot of what is known about Hitler is not a matter of belief as it comes from the mountains and mountains of material accumulated by both him, and the Germans.

    One of the most noticeable traits of those who want to rewrite this event is their refusal to engage in debate: they make statements and then run away so that they don't have to confront the explanation that blows their argument apart. I suppose they think if they repeat a lie enough times, it will become true. The danger is that this practice undermines all rational thought.

    We all know how important it is to question everything, but for me, when reasonable skepticism turns into unthinking, blanket cynicism, our minds can be warped by those pushing agenda - and this applies to both the "mainstream" and "alternative" worlds.

    Sorry...another monster post

  34. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    aheb (24th August 2014), Cidersomerset (23rd August 2014), Delight (23rd August 2014), giovonni (23rd August 2014), learninglight (24th August 2014)

  35. Link to Post #59
    Avalon Member Andrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Posts
    306
    Thanks
    907
    Thanked 755 times in 224 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    Remember back before we all had the internet; when we used to watch documentaries on the TV, I particularly remember the JFK ones, they would explain nothing and go on about the magic bullet theory and keep showing JFK getting shot, you would find yourself scratching your head wondering about what they were telling you and it not making any sense. Then the internet arrives and one day you search JFK speeches and you find the secret society speech, listen while wondering why they never played this on the tele, at the same time nearly falling off your chair at what you're hearing! Suddenly you start to see the deceit, propaganda, lies and coverups much more clearer in your mind just from that speech by connecting some dots yourself, realising that for all those years you accepted the original explaination because there was parts left out ie the secret society speech. This is just one episode of deceit there are many others as we are uncovering... I got the same feeling after listening to Hitler speeches and just looking at both sides of the coin and trying to see the why's. We are not educated in certain fields but does that mean we cant investigate or ask questions?

    Lounglizard even though you write full pages here and there you really have nothing anymore substantial then the likes of Irving or any other person asking question or pointing out missing facts and so on, you say one source is lieing because this source says so... this document says this so it must be true blah blah blah... there's many forgeries and many lies, I'm open to all but eventually the scale tips and you see a pattern, people just need to work out which way the scale tips for them. If you're open minded and want truth, seek and you shall find (Also depends if you're service to self or service to others to which truths you seek). You mention agendas alot by what agendas do you actually refer?

    It's the reasons and why's to understand not the War itself, if you get backed into a corner you fight to get out. One side starts doing bad stuff the other side does to counter it. I heard Stalin ordered his army to go on rape charges and same for the British; I also heard the German side were ordered not to rape because they would get shot?? but then we have the Holocaust which cancels out any fair play. But then you raise questions about the Holocaust write books or have lectures regarding the discrepencies and get thrown in jail even banned from countries, just doesnt make sense?

    People dont dedicate their lives to something like this topic just for a bit of cash when there is far easier ways to make money with less hassle.

    Who are the leaders in propaganda and deceit? Also like to add that whenever Hitler is speaking it's classed as Propaganda like it's some terrible thing, though it can be used to spread good or bad... whenever the general public here the word they mostly assume it's some evil to twist there minds to do bad, not always the case.

    Propaganda -
    1.
    information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
    2.
    the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
    3.
    the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.


    Every evil deed needs a scapegoat. Divert attention.

  36. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Andrew For This Post:

    aheb (24th August 2014), giovonni (24th August 2014), seko (23rd August 2014)

  37. Link to Post #60
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    58
    Posts
    22,337
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,247 times in 18,668 posts

    Default Re: Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

    I posted this on the other thread and just watched it again aprox 4mins in
    they start talking about no documentary evidence for gas chambers being
    installed in Auschwitz during the war and the replica built in 1948 is fake.
    Andrew Irving then admits that there is multiple documentations for
    the millions of Jews shot on the Eastern front. ( There were millions
    of other murdered as well partisans ,villagers etc.... not mentioned )

    If the murders in the concentration camps were exaggerated, which I
    have seen no proof for. Its a legitimate subject to discuss, in case new
    evidence comes to light. There is no doubt many million of civilians were
    murdered during WW11 , mainly as a direct result of Hitlers ambition
    to conquer and dominate Europe. Events happened very fast , the
    German Generals did not expect to rout the French army and British
    expeditionary force in May/June 1940.Which led to the occupation
    of much of Europe for only 4/5 years resulting in carnage.

    Hitler was head of state of the third Reich so in the end was responsible
    for all the atrocities committed by the forces and para military units
    as well as the allied militias and police that the German forces let carry
    out thousands of murders of the various ethnic communities under the
    control of his armed forces. It does not mean he was any more evil than
    many other leaders including Bush/Obama head of the US military crimes
    in Abu graib Iraq. Just that the Third Reich whether by Shooting, hanging
    starvation or Gassing was more efficient. Millions also died in Soviet and
    Chinese labour camps before and after the war.

    Every war Korea, Vietnam right up to the Ukraine .Gaza, Syria and Iraq
    once again more atrocities are happening and now we can witness them live
    on the web. it is very sad.

    I'm open that other powers manipulated events behind the scenes and the Allies
    were also guilty of excessive bombing towards the end of the war, and these
    same shadowy figures are still creating the circumstances for these conflicts to
    continue.

    Hardtalk David Irving BBC 2000.....He admits himself he has a despicable
    personality jokingly . So He does not dispute millions of Jews died in WW11, just
    how.

    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 5th December 2014 at 01:22.

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    giovonni (24th August 2014)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1 3 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts