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Thread: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    For those who are keeping up with solar photovoltaic (PV) technology, have there been any significant changes in what you'd recommend for a very small PV system? Particularly, in the panel(s.)

    I have heard that there are now much more efficient panels on the market. Maybe they are not yet in production? Maybe they are ridiculously expensive? I can't afford the really expensive ones.

    I'm starting to investigate a very small system that could be used to (at least) charge batteries, maybe charge a car battery, maybe provide enough power to save and use for a few lights and/or fan.

    So, is there anything really noteworthy to report, or to recommend...or should I just gloogle "solar panel"?

    Thanks!

    Dennis


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    Avalon Member Lifebringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    For those who are keeping up with solar photovoltaic (PV) technology, have there been any significant changes in what you'd recommend for a very small PV system? Particularly, in the panel(s.)

    I have heard that there are now much more efficient panels on the market. Maybe they are not yet in production? Maybe they are ridiculously expensive? I can't afford the really expensive ones.

    I'm starting to investigate a very small system that could be used to (at least) charge batteries, maybe charge a car battery, maybe provide enough power to save and use for a few lights and/or fan.

    So, is there anything really noteworthy to report, or to recommend...or should I just gloogle "solar panel"?

    Thanks!

    Dennis
    I've also seen back pack flexible solar panel kits. The lowest one was around 112.00, key in solar back packs, solar kits, or anything solar products, and have a ball.

    The back packs charge cells phones and lap top batteries and play radio, charge batteries for electronics.
    PSS This was 3 years ago, maybe cheaper and much stronger they are using optics.
    Last edited by Lifebringer; 26th April 2014 at 20:29.

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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Good question Dennis
    I'm afraid to find out myself as we just had solar installed recently on our home. I'm sure the panels are already outdated.
    But on a high note my last electric bill read -$3.40. So, I know they are working
    But am certain that in just a short time the 19 panels that I have will be improved to require half of that.
    Oh well

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    Avalon Member Tesseract's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Dennis,

    For anyone installing full scale home solar with thousands of dollar to spend, the price of the panels is not too high [http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...w+solar+panel]. Something like $0.6 per Watt - that is a bargain really. I am talking about standard silicon panels, poly or mono crystalline, that get about 18 % efficiency.

    Now, you seem to be talking about a very small system, 1 or 2 100 W panels [the more the better IMO] and a car battery or two, total value probably a few hundred bucks. In fact, you are likely to pay more for a single car battery, if you buy a good one, than for a single 100 W solar panel. If you have plenty of space, efficiency doesn't matter so much, and I'd just buy polycrystalline silicone panels since they are so damn cheap. Just pay attention to the output voltage of the panels, not all of them are 12 V. I would be setting up my own solar system too if I owned my own land - only I would buy several kW of panels and a big lithium battery.

    As far as other technologies go, I know that organic photovoltaics are very efficient in low light conditions [currently not so great in full light] and may be fairly cheap, but they are not commercially available yet as far as I know - I expect that they will be in a few years time.

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    Australia Avalon Member Anchor's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    To get started, camping equipment is the way to go - designed for portability and is all wired up ready for you to play with.

    Perhaps start with one or two 80W panels and have a play (which is normally two 40W panels hinged and with a stand - bigger ones exist but they start to get heavy and unwieldy).

    Car batteries are not a great way to store electricity for overnight use - for that you need a type of battery called "Deep Cycle" which are designed to discharge a fair percentage of their capacity without damage. Car batteries on the other hand are not designed to be discharged by much of their capacity and doing so shortens their life substantially. The deep cycle kind used in caravans might be the way to go.

    Lithium Ferrous Phosphate LiFePO4 batteries are by far and away the best option, but they need a little more care as they can be killed stone dead by overcharging or over discharging, so if you are going to make a system from scratch you need to ensure that you design in a battery balancing system can keep the individual cells balanced to within a few millivolts of eachother for efficient usage and long life and that protects the cells from overdischarge and cuts off the charger at the right time (or else the magic smoke is released).
    Last edited by Anchor; 27th April 2014 at 11:43.
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    Wales Avalon Member meat suit's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    I think the development has gone in the direction of getting more watts out of the space, bring down purchase cost and increase the time before efficiency drops.
    we get 150watts from our 1 square meter panels. they are frame less glass panels

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    Costa Rica Avalon Member ulli's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    I bought this last year, and find it really useful, as we have quite a few power cuts in our area.
    So I plug in my modem and maybe a couple of lights, and hardly miss a beat.



    I paid just under $900. It has five small solar panels, a battery and inverter inside.

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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    I bought this last year, and find it really useful, as we have quite a few power cuts in our area.
    So I plug in my modem and maybe a couple of lights, and hardly miss a beat.
    Lead-acid batteries tend to self-discharge, even when disconnected, and deep discharging them harms them, eventually ruining them.

    So, if you put that "on the self" for a couple of years, and then need to use it, there's a good chance the battery will have much reduced capacity, or no useful capacity at all.

    Lead-acid batteries have the longest life span if occasionally recharged. I notice that the better run battery shops near me have chargers that they move around from battery to battery, so that every month or two, each battery is topped back up.

    On the other hand, if your power is sufficiently unreliable, you might be recharging those batteries as a matter of normal usage, whenever there's a power outage . That works.

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    Costa Rica Avalon Member ulli's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    I bought this last year, and find it really useful, as we have quite a few power cuts in our area.
    So I plug in my modem and maybe a couple of lights, and hardly miss a beat.
    Lead-acid batteries tend to self-discharge, even when disconnected, and deep discharging them harms them, eventually ruining them.

    So, if you put that "on the self" for a couple of years, and then need to use it, there's a good chance the battery will have much reduced capacity, or no useful capacity at all.

    Lead-acid batteries have the longest life span if occasionally recharged. I notice that the better run battery shops near me have chargers that they move around from battery to battery, so that every month or two, each battery is topped back up.

    On the other hand, if your power is sufficiently unreliable, you might be recharging those batteries as a matter of normal usage, whenever there's a power outage . That works.
    That's exactly what happens. Although I was away from home for the last two months, but will be returning next week.
    So the cube will get plugged in for a while, to restore the full charge. Thanks for the reminder.

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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Not to be dumb but what are organic photovoltaic panels?

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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    http://www.happypreppers.com/solar.html

    Some ideas on the bottom of the link page.

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    United States Avalon Member GlassSteagallfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Lead-acid batteries tend to self-discharge, even when disconnected, and deep discharging them harms them, eventually ruining them.

    So, if you put that "on the self" for a couple of years, and then need to use it, there's a good chance the battery will have much reduced capacity, or no useful capacity at all.

    Lead-acid batteries have the longest life span if occasionally recharged. I notice that the better run battery shops near me have chargers that they move around from battery to battery, so that every month or two, each battery is topped back up.

    On the other hand, if your power is sufficiently unreliable, you might be recharging those batteries as a matter of normal usage, whenever there's a power outage . That works.
    If charging batteries is your primary use of solar cells, maybe you should have a look at the Bedini Energizer SG. From what I have read (correct me if i'm wrong), the Bedini Energizer -although it requires a battery to operate- will charge an infinite number of batteries at the same time (using radiant energy), whereas normal battery chargers can only handle one at a time.

    Also, the batteries improve over time. Charging and discharging cause the battery to become de-sulphated and able to accept a better charge.

    The downside - once the batteries are 'conditioned' in this method, normal battery chargers are useless because the chemical makeup of the battery is changed. You must always use the Bedini Energizer for recharging.

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    Avalon Member Tesseract's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Quote Posted by chrysocolla (here)
    Not to be dumb but what are organic photovoltaic panels?
    It's not dumb at all! I only know because I have worked with others who are developing this technology.

    'Photovoltaic' means that light (photons) are being used to generate a voltage difference.

    The particular technology I am most familiar with is the dye sensitised solar cell, which I will describe below [or see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye-sensitized_solar_cell].

    The word 'organic' comes from the fact that an organic (carbon based) molecule is used to absorb the incoming sunlight (the molecule is quite literally a dye), although these organic molecules often have at least one metal atom in them as well. So, once the incoming light has been absorbed by the dye, things get a little complex, but it involves the energised dye transferring an electron to an inorganic electrode surface, that electron then travels around the external circuit (doing electrical work, like powering your light bulb), comes back into the cell at the other electrode. There, it hitches a ride on an Iodine atom in the electrolyte, the Iodine crosses the cell, and gives the electron back to the dye. And the whole thing repeats.

    For the device to work well, the dye needs to be a good absorber, the transfer of the electron from the dye to the electrode needs to be efficient, the iodine needs to be highly mobile, and the system needs to be stable [sunlight often finds a way to destroy organic molecules].


    As for other organic solar systems, you can find info at wikipedia, although it is not so easy to understand. I won't try and explain it myself since I don't know so much about it.

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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    I just wanted to add a little post here about batteries. My partner is a whiz at this and is forwarding more info for you that I will post in a moment. However I would like to tell you about batteries, because they are a part of every solar system. Watch your local Craigslist or possibly eBay for the expensive deep cycle batteries used by cell phone companies in their stations. The ones we bought for a mere $300 each are normally many $1,000s of dollars in cost. The cell phone companies routinely change them out and discard the old ones after 3 years of use, whereas the batteries are rated for 25+ years of continual use.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Now here are some excellent links provided by my partner. His hobby is researching and keeping up with the latest in this area. He lived for many years on a solar system he designed.

    He spends hours each week in research on this field (which is his passion). If electricity in our area ever goes out, we have a fully functional solar system which powers everything here in our all electric house. We use the system periodically just to be sure it works and is completely ready for any emergency. The total cost for for this system was $3,400 and it is a dual bank system which can run more than one household. Here are the links he recommends:


    Solar panels. can get this brand on ebay for a little less.
    http://www.amazon.com/RENOGY-Monocry.../dp/B009Z6CW7O

    Solar tracker 5 charge controller. Best possible solar charge controllers. Charge battery even on cloudy days.
    http://teslachargers.com/solartrackeriii.html

    He says that these are the BEST controllers which will keep the batteries running indefinitely. There are other systems which could save you over $1,000 but you would have to replace batteries every 5-10 years. In the long run the better controller will be cheaper because batteries will (theoretically) last forever.

    He also tells me that the most difficult part to learn about in designing a system is .... BATTERIES. Common industry practices are designed to wear out batteries so that you (the consumer) must spend $ replacing them on an ongoing basis. Once you understand batteries and how to care for them you will not need to replace them again (probably never in your lifetime). The book to get in learning about this situation and how to manage it is called: Living on 12v with Ample Power. It does not discuss the very latest in Solar trackers because there has been new technology created since it was written, but it is a great book for understanding batteries. Here's an Amazon link to it: http://www.amazon.com/Living-Twelve-...ng+on+12+volts

    There is another recommended book on batteries which contains new information which informed the Solar Tracker 5 controller we have. It is called Battery secrets ... Here's the link: http://teslachargers.com/batterysecrets.html
    Last edited by Dawn; 27th April 2014 at 17:50.

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    Avalon Member 13th Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Quote The total cost for for this system was $3,400 and it is a dual bank system which can run more than one household.
    This is the large part of why I don't get too excited when someone claims they have a free energy device that cost 7+ thousand dollars for 4kw; when you can already do this with solar and wind power.
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Thanks for all the replies!

    Just like the last time I looked into PV solar, I realize that I really have to make a decision as to what specifically I want to power, and for how long. Everything else stems from that.

    Of course, until my FE unit arrives, I want to run my entire home empire and world headquarters on free solar energy, and have a solar-powered car, and a solar-powered extremely lightweight unit for camping/backpacking/bug-out - in all cases, paying as close to zero for the systems as possible. What I want to do and what I could afford are worlds apart.

    Ulli is showing a practical solution for a real-world homestead scenario: powering a few lights and an electronic device when the grid (temporarily) blinks off. I need to find my "practical" hat, put it on, and really think about what I can afford to do, and why I would do it. For example, if the BIG grid really did go down for a year (the coronal mass ejection scenario, or the false-flag phony-terrorist-but-really-the-US-government scenario), there would be no phone, no internet...and power would make sense for food refrigeration, air circulation fan(s), some lights, maybe some intermittent use of small power tools, possibly powering a pump for a shallow well (water would then be filtered for potability), possibly running a home computer/monitor to consult with data/e-books already downloaded and/or watch whatever videos (documentaries, how-to videos, entertainment, etc.) had already been downloaded. Really, not all that much electrical energy needed, when you break it down to necessities. I don't own a electric bike but if I did, the recharging of that battery would be an additional power need consideration.

    The highest level (that I thought I could not possibly afford, an on-grid 5kW system using Renogy panels), might cost $10,000. But Dawn's partner has lived off a system that costs one-third of that.

    Seems like we have to also stop and think about the cost of upgrading some "energy piggy" devices, to bring down the system requirements. I mean, we're not talking about running central air conditioning, dehumidifiers, and several refrigerators/freezers as well as whole-house incandescent lighting on a small system. Not that I want to run all that crap, just saying that you need to know what output you need, and then exceed it by a bit (the PV cells degrade over time, and sometimes there are chemtrail-y, er, I mean cloudy days.)

    I have a lot of homework to do. Thanks for the resources!

    Dennis


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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Take a look at Goal Zero; their target market is mobile/camping type use.

    http://www.goalzero.com/mobile/
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Dennis, just want to mention that we both have electric bikes 'just in case' and we bought them 2nd hand on Craigslist. One cost $275 and the other cost $325 (because it looked brand new). So... don't forget that one man's junk can be your own personal treasure!

    And... of course... right now we have our freezer and refrigerator on a permanent system which will flip on if the power grid goes down. No need to use the alternate system right now for power is free to us where we keep them.

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    Dawn,

    I love the concept of Freecycle and Craigslist (and to a lesser extent, having degraded over time), Ebay. I am into used stuff, and fixing stuff when it breaks - whenever possible, (rather than buying new.) That said, I always seem to be about 1 day late for great deals on cool stuff on Craig's list. Sounds like you did great with the bikes! That's less than the cost of an add-on electric kit (Hilltopper) for an existing bike.

    Dennis


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    Default Re: What's the latest (newer, but inexpensive) in photovoltaic cells/panels?

    http://www.goalzero.com/mobile/p/21

    $200 for a 30w panel that's 21"×18" and 6lbs. Is pretty fricken good...
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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