Do the people of this planet really deserve to be saved?

[Asyloth]

Hello avalonians,

I've got this simple question in mind and I'd like to have your opinions about it.
Most of the people I've met in my life were messed up one way or another and most of them are so selfish and disregarding that they themselves mess up with the others.
It seems like we're stuck in a cycle of hatrid, jalousy, and all the rest of it.
I've had this "crazy" dream for a while about saving this world but now I'm really wondering, do these people deserve to be saved?

I really don't know anymore...

Why should someone that's good hearted give his time to save people like this?

[crosby]

even with all of the insane atrocities, i will say 'yes'. Save them if you can, try to re-entrain them. do whatever it takes. the physical existence is more than just the singular moment of madness, chaos, and insanity. there is good. it does exist. it is relevant. it is important. whether or not we are holographic or totally real, there is a mission to accomplish here. Someone who is 'really good hearted' will selflessly give his/her time to save people who cannot see. i do it everyday. it is a battle worth fighting....... (although the inclination to be pissed off is often near) - .... i continue to fight the fight! hells bells, as much as it depresses me, i wake up everyday knowing that i have to discuss left/right politics with my mother everyday.....i get through it though. it seems wrong to not try. Agree?
warmest regards,
crosby

[NancyV]

I have some questions about the concept of being "saved". What is there to be saved from? How could only one or a few people have any possibility of "saving" the world? If you have any belief in some kind of karma or fate then each one of us has a life exactly as we either deserve or decided upon before we came here. If it is your fate to attempt to "save" others, then go for it. It certainly is not my fate or desire to save people from a life that suits them perfectly. Besides that there is no death so even when our physical bodies die we will continue on elsewhere.

I only help in situations that come into my life and are unavoidable, like when I was the first to come upon a van that had an accident and turned over in the snow, driving back from Tahoe in the winter. I jumped out, opened the side door by climbing up on the side of the van and helped people out. Pretty soon others stopped and also helped. Several situations like that have happened and I always feel the urge to help. But I just plain don't think the world and all people NEED saving. Besides that it's not my business to presume that I know better than they what course their life is supposed to take. So unless they are in my face I will mostly ignore them. I also can't tell you that you shouldn't try to save someone or everyone. Maybe you're on a mission from God!

But please don't fool yourself into thinking saving anyone is a selfless action. It is totally selfish because it is what you WANT to do, so you are doing it for yourself or your ideal of what you want your self to be like. Good hearted people who think they are sacrificing their lives in selfless service are really not. They are doing whatever they do for their own desires.

[loc333]

great question..the people have been dumbed down..how can you hold someone accountable who thinks they have to watch dancing with the stars(bullsh*t show) so they are in the loop of popular culture,....put that in your pipe and smoke it...just kidding good thread.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by NancyV (here)
I have some questions about the concept of being "saved". What is there to be saved from? How could only one or a few people have any possibility of "saving" the world? If you have any belief in some kind of karma or fate then each one of us has a life exactly as we either deserve or decided upon before we came here. If it is your fate to attempt to "save" others, then go for it. It certainly is not my fate or desire to save people from a life that suits them perfectly. Besides that there is no death so even when our physical bodies die we will continue on elsewhere.

I only help in situations that come into my life and are unavoidable, like when I was the first to come upon a van that had an accident and turned over in the snow, driving back from Tahoe in the winter. I jumped out, opened the side door by climbing up on the side of the van and helped people out. Pretty soon others stopped and also helped. Several situations like that have happened and I always feel the urge to help. But I just plain don't think the world and all people NEED saving. Besides that it's not my business to presume that I know better than they what course their life is supposed to take. So unless they are in my face I will mostly ignore them. I also can't tell you that you shouldn't try to save someone or everyone. Maybe you're on a mission from God!

But please don't fool yourself into thinking saving anyone is a selfless action. It is totally selfish because it is what you WANT to do, so you are doing it for yourself or your ideal of what you want your self to be like. Good hearted people who think they are sacrificing their lives in selfless service are really not. They are doing whatever they do for their own desires.

I was about to post, then looked back and saw NancyV's post and have to say -- exactly! Could not have said better.

[crosby]

Posted by NancyV (here)
I have some questions about the concept of being "saved". What is there to be saved from? How could only one or a few people have any possibility of "saving" the world? If you have any belief in some kind of karma or fate then each one of us has a life exactly as we either deserve or decided upon before we came here. If it is your fate to attempt to "save" others, then go for it. It certainly is not my fate or desire to save people from a life that suits them perfectly. Besides that there is no death so even when our physical bodies die we will continue on elsewhere. But is that a true, factual concept for all? It is quite possible that individuals just believe or do not believe in a particular matter. Does karma or fate actually interface with all?

I only help in situations that come into my life and are unavoidable, like when I was the first to come upon a van that had an accident and turned over in the snow, driving back from Tahoe in the winter.What if you walked or drove away? I jumped out, opened the side door by climbing up on the side of the van and helped people out. Pretty soon others stopped and also helped. Several situations like that have happened and I always feel the urge to help. But I just plain don't think the world and all people NEED saving. Besides that it's not my business to presume that I know better than they what course their life is supposed to take. So unless they are in my face I will mostly ignore them. I also can't tell you that you shouldn't try to save someone or everyone. Maybe you're on a mission from God! This does not necessitate one act of selflessness - - or the only kind of selflessness. Selflessness is something that is given because of love. When you help someone during an accident, it isn't necessarily selflessness, but an innate manner of fear.

But please don't fool yourself into thinking saving anyone is a selfless action. It is totally selfish because it is what you WANT to do, so you are doing it for yourself or your ideal of what you want your self to be like. Good hearted people who think they are sacrificing their lives in selfless service are really not. They are doing whatever they do for their own desires.

Being kind hearted and working towards the better life of mankind is not selfish. Just because one individual would like to help another does not necessitate selfishness for the sake of ones' self. if it is truly working towards helping all, it is not, imho, a selfish act.



so again, i say yes, whether it is for 'selfless' or 'selfish' reasons, the ultimate objective is too save mankind. what say you OP?

perhaps the very word 'saved' will throw the audience?

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by crosby (here)

Posted by NancyV (here)
I have some questions about the concept of being "saved". What is there to be saved from? How could only one or a few people have any possibility of "saving" the world? If you have any belief in some kind of karma or fate then each one of us has a life exactly as we either deserve or decided upon before we came here. If it is your fate to attempt to "save" others, then go for it. It certainly is not my fate or desire to save people from a life that suits them perfectly. Besides that there is no death so even when our physical bodies die we will continue on elsewhere. But is that a true, factual concept for all? It is quite possible that individuals just believe or do not believe in a particular matter. Does karma or fate actually interface with all?

I only help in situations that come into my life and are unavoidable, like when I was the first to come upon a van that had an accident and turned over in the snow, driving back from Tahoe in the winter.What if you walked or drove away? I jumped out, opened the side door by climbing up on the side of the van and helped people out. Pretty soon others stopped and also helped. Several situations like that have happened and I always feel the urge to help. But I just plain don't think the world and all people NEED saving. Besides that it's not my business to presume that I know better than they what course their life is supposed to take. So unless they are in my face I will mostly ignore them. I also can't tell you that you shouldn't try to save someone or everyone. Maybe you're on a mission from God! This does not necessitate one act of selflessness - - or the only kind of selflessness. Selflessness is something that is given because of love. When you help someone during an accident, it isn't necessarily selflessness, but an innate manner of fear.

But please don't fool yourself into thinking saving anyone is a selfless action. It is totally selfish because it is what you WANT to do, so you are doing it for yourself or your ideal of what you want your self to be like. Good hearted people who think they are sacrificing their lives in selfless service are really not. They are doing whatever they do for their own desires.

Being kind hearted and working towards the better life of mankind is not selfish. Just because one individual would like to help another does not necessitate selfishness for the sake of ones' self. if it is truly working towards helping all, it is not, imho, a selfish act.



so again, i say yes, whether it is for 'selfless' or 'selfish' reasons, the ultimate objective is too save mankind. what say you OP?

perhaps the very word 'saved' will throw the audience?

If I may, Living by instinct is not selfish, it is hard to have personal "reasons" and not have a selfish motive. Do the two not go hand in hand? It is a tricky concept. I inject instinct as the alternative because it has no reason, but still often works in a "service to all" way. When you have a "reason" for it, it becomes a personal gain. However, this is getting into some more deeper type stuff.

Just my 2 cents

[NancyV]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by crosby (here)

Posted by NancyV (here)
I have some questions about the concept of being "saved". What is there to be saved from? How could only one or a few people have any possibility of "saving" the world? If you have any belief in some kind of karma or fate then each one of us has a life exactly as we either deserve or decided upon before we came here. If it is your fate to attempt to "save" others, then go for it. It certainly is not my fate or desire to save people from a life that suits them perfectly. Besides that there is no death so even when our physical bodies die we will continue on elsewhere. But is that a true, factual concept for all? It is quite possible that individuals just believe or do not believe in a particular matter. Does karma or fate actually interface with all?

I only help in situations that come into my life and are unavoidable, like when I was the first to come upon a van that had an accident and turned over in the snow, driving back from Tahoe in the winter.What if you walked or drove away? I jumped out, opened the side door by climbing up on the side of the van and helped people out. Pretty soon others stopped and also helped. Several situations like that have happened and I always feel the urge to help. But I just plain don't think the world and all people NEED saving. Besides that it's not my business to presume that I know better than they what course their life is supposed to take. So unless they are in my face I will mostly ignore them. I also can't tell you that you shouldn't try to save someone or everyone. Maybe you're on a mission from God! This does not necessitate one act of selflessness - - or the only kind of selflessness. Selflessness is something that is given because of love. When you help someone during an accident, it isn't necessarily selflessness, but an innate manner of fear.

But please don't fool yourself into thinking saving anyone is a selfless action. It is totally selfish because it is what you WANT to do, so you are doing it for yourself or your ideal of what you want your self to be like. Good hearted people who think they are sacrificing their lives in selfless service are really not. They are doing whatever they do for their own desires.

Being kind hearted and working towards the better life of mankind is not selfish. Just because one individual would like to help another does not necessitate selfishness for the sake of ones' self. if it is truly working towards helping all, it is not, imho, a selfish act.



so again, i say yes, whether it is for 'selfless' or 'selfish' reasons, the ultimate objective is too save mankind. what say you OP?

perhaps the very word 'saved' will throw the audience?

If I may, Living by instinct is not selfish, it is hard to have personal "reasons" and not have a selfish motive. Do the two not go hand in hand? It is a tricky concept. I inject instinct as the alternative because it has no reason, but still often works in a "service to all" way. When you have a "reason" for it, it becomes a personal gain. However, this is getting into some more deeper type stuff.

Just my 2 cents

Actually natural instincts are often for survival or protection of the self, or in the case of helping another who happens to be near you, it could be a natural nurturing instinct or a sense of responsibility that you've acquired in your upbringing. If we want to get into "deeper type stuff" if you consider that we are all one, then anything you do for another is done for your self, hence NOT selfless!

As far as karma or fate I can't say for absolute sure that we are ruled or influenced by either, although they are certainly possibilities. But even when I think I know I can't be sure that I know, and I'm okay with that. Pretty much everything is speculation and opinion and everything is subject to change, in my opinion.

[crosby]

[QUOTE=DeDukshyn;839798]

Posted by crosby (here)

Posted by NancyV (here)
I have some questions about the concept of being "saved". What is there to be saved from? How could only one or a few people have any possibility of "saving" the world? If you have any belief in some kind of karma or fate then each one of us has a life exactly as we either deserve or decided upon before we came here. If it is your fate to attempt to "save" others, then go for it. It certainly is not my fate or desire to save people from a life that suits them perfectly. Besides that there is no death so even when our physical bodies die we will continue on elsewhere. But is that a true, factual concept for all? It is quite possible that individuals just believe or do not believe in a particular matter. Does karma or fate actually interface with all?

I only help in situations that come into my life and are unavoidable, like when I was the first to come upon a van that had an accident and turned over in the snow, driving back from Tahoe in the winter.What if you walked or drove away? I jumped out, opened the side door by climbing up on the side of the van and helped people out. Pretty soon others stopped and also helped. Several situations like that have happened and I always feel the urge to help. But I just plain don't think the world and all people NEED saving. Besides that it's not my business to presume that I know better than they what course their life is supposed to take. So unless they are in my face I will mostly ignore them. I also can't tell you that you shouldn't try to save someone or everyone. Maybe you're on a mission from God! This does not necessitate one act of selflessness - - or the only kind of selflessness. Selflessness is something that is given because of love. When you help someone during an accident, it isn't necessarily selflessness, but an innate manner of fear.

But please don't fool yourself into thinking saving anyone is a selfless action. It is totally selfish because it is what you WANT to do, so you are doing it for yourself or your ideal of what you want your self to be like. Good hearted people who think they are sacrificing their lives in selfless service are really not. They are doing whatever they do for their own desires.

Being kind hearted and working towards the better life of mankind is not selfish. Just because one individual would like to help another does not necessitate selfishness for the sake of ones' self. if it is truly working towards helping all, it is not, imho, a selfish act.



so again, i say yes, whether it is for 'selfless' or 'selfish' reasons, the ultimate objective is too save mankind. what say you OP?

perhaps the very word 'saved' will throw the audience?

If I may, Living by instinct is not selfishisness, nor is it selflessness, it is hard to have personal "reasons" and not have a selfish motive. Do the two not go hand in hand? It is a tricky concept. I inject instinct as the alternative because it has no reason, but still often works in a "service to all" way. When you have a "reason" for it, it becomes a personal gain. However, this is getting into some more deeper type stuff.


Although I believe that some (not all), people may act selflessly under duress, i do not feel that this is the motivation all of the time and i wonder if it is a motive to captivate being 'saved'. We have to be careful how we digress into stories about how 'we' personally and physically save other people and whether or not it is the appropriate point. Personally, i believe the OP should add a little more to the initial thread question and to expand on what he is asking for,. is he a MOD (merchant of death), giggle, or, just trying to reconcile the human race. The questions are endless, and there is never an easy answer, but, it is fun to draw some attention to this matter. Agree?
crosby

so while some may think that reacting in a certain way at a certain time precludes or excludes 'selfness' and 'selfish' responses it just isn't true. just my opinion.
i am always learning here, so, please, shed some more light for me.....
loving always,
cros.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Why should someone that's good hearted give his time to save people like this?

I do this all the time ( giving them my time), but I do not attach myself to the results I desire, no expectations, if people are full of sh!t, it's at least not because I haven't tried to change it, this gives me just as much comfort and irritation at the same time, probably in the end the joke will be on me, at least I can see it coming this way, that's somewhat nice, somewhat

[crosby]

Posted by 778 neighbour of some guy (here)

Why should someone that's good hearted give his time to save people like this?

I do this all the time ( giving them my time), but I do not attach myself to the results I desire, no expectations, if people are full of sh!t, it's at least not because I haven't tried to change it, this gives me just as much comfort and irritation at the same time, probably in the end the joke will be on me, at least I can see it coming this way, that's somewhat nice, somewhat

yah i've noticed that about you. right up front. no bull****. just true, non-regarding feelings. true grit...... way to go..... maybe the joke is on you. maybe it is not... maybe it is on me, maybe not.... selfish, selfless.......? what's it gonna be?
crosby

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by crosby (here)

Posted by 778 neighbour of some guy (here)

Why should someone that's good hearted give his time to save people like this?

I do this all the time ( giving them my time), but I do not attach myself to the results I desire, no expectations, if people are full of sh!t, it's at least not because I haven't tried to change it, this gives me just as much comfort and irritation at the same time, probably in the end the joke will be on me, at least I can see it coming this way, that's somewhat nice, somewhat

yah i've noticed that about you. right up front. no bull****. just true, non-regarding feelings. true grit...... way to go..... maybe the joke is on you. maybe it is not... maybe it is on me, maybe not.... selfish, selfless.......? what's it gonna be?
crosby

I do not consider it a good quality at all, at all, but I have been through a lot, beaten myself over the head with it, regrets, remorse, guilt, happiness, love, friendship but in the end all one has is ones self and have bullsh!tted myself so much I just couldn't stand it anymore, life is just life regardless of my feelings, I have feelings, tons, very nice and good ones too, so I still attempt to be there for people who need it in my own life, but cant do the work for them, only support them to figure things out, assisting people with finding answers on ( for me) small questions might mean a lot to them, imo opinion no effort is wasted, maybe unrequested, maybe pointless, but for me, myself and I it was no wasted effort at all, I tried, learned a lot and am still full of sh!t and yet I have grown beyond everything I ever hoped to expect out of life ( a steaming pile turned into a shining log), I am not as f@cked up as I could have ended up, that's a good thing, and the time I bought by asking myself an obnoxious amount of questions about life and my own being on this spacerock( many without answers ), taught me don't look for sh!t, it 'll find you if it needs you, just be happy with what you got, don't let others mess with your life and screw things up, I am perfectly capable of doing that myself and I am the only who has the right to do so, I have no need to contribute one drop of misery to anyone else's life, yet when one willingly tries to add misery to my own load or tries to manipulate me in any direction, very likely I will be in your face.

Love, happiness and more of that stuff to you and everybody else.

Edgar

[justntime2learn]

That is a wonderful question and I have asked it many times of myself.

I'm not sure of the answer but I am sure of the question because being American means you have to live with the growing ASPD rate.

I cannot deny that it bothers me to ask this question but, do 6 to 8 % of Americans belong behind bars that are not? Well, that would be a resounding yes!

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction- Albert Einstein

Yeah, there's probably a bunch in jail on trumped up charges by others that are able to manipulate To an easier degree.

It's painful to think what will happen as privatized prisons continue to grow

[crosby]

what a bunch of ass per days peeps then, rights?

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by crosby (here)
what a bunch of ass per days peeps then, rights?

Nopes, just peeps racing the ratrace with the tools/skills, they know and understand, my ass is no better then any other ass, I just happened to see around other corners and did not shy away of inviting my darkness to the party too, at least then I know where its at and can question it on what it needs, whether I give it what it wants/needs is a different question.

[vilcabamba]

I used to think I would like to save the world also and everyone needs to be saved. I have changed my mind.

I helped out a whistleblower that is currently saving lives. She has people that are sick from chemtrail pathogens come to her and she helps to save their lives. Well, most people in the matrix do no want to know the truth and even if they are dying, they will turn on the person trying to save their lives, if they are told the truth they do not want to hear about chemtrails. I used to think everyone deserves to be saved. I say now, no they don't! People on this planet will crucify you like they crucified jesus. Their souls gravitate towards the satanic energies. And I know for one, I have no interest in selfish, evil, arrogant, materialistic, murderous mind ways of the majority of the human population on this planet. And the star people don't want them in their realms either.

There are souls that cannot wake up no matter what, they are aligned more with the satanic energies on this planet and that will never change no matter how much you want to believe it. Dark energies and people who align towards Satanism don't deserve to be worked on continuously to try to get them to move towards the light.
Even the star people say that they believe 10 percent of us are moving towards the light and ascending and that a certain percent of the people on this planet don't even deserve to have their souls survive after leaving here. So I say NO, not everyone deserves to be saved !

The new age movement has been financed by the satanic forces and they want the new agers to believe that we are all partners in co-creation. Like one big happy family us and the Satanists who chop off baby heads for breakfast. This is mind control. Evil does not deserve to be saved. And people in the new age movement who believe they have chosen to partner with Satanists in one big la la happy family are under mind control. They have been pushed into delusional-ville to believe that all souls have the ability to wake up and move towards the light, when the majority of souls on this planet are undesirables, evil, psychos of the universe. And no they don't need to be saved. Only those with love and light in their hearts.

[Lifebringer]

I guess the Creator asks Jesus the same thing. I guess it all depends on the choices they made that destroyed them from inside out and whether they are choosing to ignore/bubble vacuum, and just piddle through life with all their quirks and maladjustments. Life's a gauntlet, and the glove has been thrown. Choose wisely and walk in peace and faith. Jesus thought we were worth it, and when he returns in spirit, He's "taking all prisoners." Removing in spirit, what we ourselves don't know how to remove, because we were kept in the dark, born in the dark, so to speak. Told a web of lies, and the ability to make this decision, hampered so we must all seek the truth to make those better decisions, to survive and be worthy of consideration. Paying it forward.

[Matt P]

A very difficult question indeed Asyloth. Difficult to answer honestly. No, many people do not deserve to be saved. They made their bed and deserve to lay in it. In fact, when I look at the evil and drop-jaw stupidity in the world, I often think the planet could use some depopulation, if only it could be selective (no, this has nothing to do with economic status, either). This sounds cruel, I'm sure, but I say this knowing there is no such thing as death. I think I want to save and/or awaken others only because I realize these people are destroying MY planet, MY water, MY air, MY ecosystems, and impeding MY experience of life. I am one of the few who actually lives consciously and makes daily choices in the interests of my planet. I do not lust after money or material things. I live a simple life with as small of a footprint as I can. I don't just say it, I live it, which requires multiple conscious difficult DAILY choices. I believe I deserve and have earned the right to enjoy this planet without it being destroyed by the evil and stupidity of others. So I want to awaken people for my own selfish interests I suppose, even though my particular interests are also in line with what's good for the planet and her ability to sustain life long term.

Matt

[Huntress]

I hear you, I probably give up on people at least once a day, ignorance is my biggest motivation killer but people can only save themselves.
It doesn't need to go beyond being prepared to be of assistance in some small manner, like lending an ear or helping out in some way, small things are about as proactive as you need to be and aren't so emotinally expensive. Helping small is easier than it seems, one step at a time one person at a time.
The trick is that people as individuals need to wake up to their own negative contribution to the global mess. Its the infintesimal drops in the ocean that give us an ocean calm or riled.
Do your bit if you are willing for you and those you love and you will probably find that you will have a positive effect on even perhaps hundreds depending on what you do. In the mean time try to find some of the good things when all you are seeing is darkeness and misery, otherwise you'll drown in despare and give up hope.

[risveglio]

Posted by Asyloth (here)
Hello avalonians,

I've got this simple question in mind and I'd like to have your opinions about it.
Most of the people I've met in my life were messed up one way or another and most of them are so selfish and disregarding that they themselves mess up with the others.
It seems like we're stuck in a cycle of hatrid, jalousy, and all the rest of it.
I've had this "crazy" dream for a while about saving this world but now I'm really wondering, do these people deserve to be saved?

I really don't know anymore...

Why should someone that's good hearted give his time to save people like this?

I think you may need to meet more people.