Do Americans deserve the Trouble Flowing their way?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Do Americans deserve the trouble flowing their way?

Good question.

My personal perspective is that we all have contributed to the current master/slave situation. Perhaps some by acquiescence, others by being controlling and greedy. No doubt we all have been and are being manipulated by physical and non-physical energies.

The next question (for me) is what can be done to fix it? The answers for each of us will be a unique blend, with some things shared and others not. The best answers will be guided by our intuition with support from the rational mind.

Some of my choices?

Become more self sufficient and reduce debt. To some degree, that reduces the influence of manipulation by the money and power control freaks.

Learn how to grow a garden. Prepare the garden now, no matter how small. If one cannot till the soil, plant in containers. I am experimenting with bucket gardening. Or try raised beds, as shown here in New York City.

Support decentralization of power. It is necessary to strip the control freaks of their purple.

When intuition speaks, share information with fertile minds. We can only accept a little bit of truth at a time. Presenting shocking and unwanted information in a manner typical of a religious zealot does not work, and may be an indicator of our own fears. I know this from personal experience.

The promise of pain and imprisonment for the control freaks is simply directed hate and revenge. It will delay their surrender. When we hate someone it is like taking poison while we wait for the other person to die. It may be appropriate for some of the control freaks, those who are human, to spend a little time in public housing with income limited to social security, welfare and Obamacare, whatever that may become.

Stock up with at least a small quantity of items needed for an emergency. Water is critical. No doubt the control freaks will cause as much pain as possible in order to gain our acceptance of whatever they have planned for us. Preparation eases the discomfort. The more comfortable we are, the easier it is create what we want instead of what the control freaks want.

[Sidney]

My opinion is that the negative conditions that "flow", regardless of where, nobody deserves.

Regardless of its motives, the United States gives billions of dollars to other countries for "aid". (I understand there are ulterior motives with these gifts).
That said, perhaps other emotionally savvy countries could give Americans "aid" in the form of moral support, voicing the problems to the world that the United States is experimenting and using technological weaponry on its own citizens to maintain control. It is very hard to fight the cabal when under influence of electronic warfare. Having ones brain dismantled is not a choice. We are victims of invisible warfare, by our own leaders. How in hell do you fight it? It truly feels like it is a no-win situation.
Even if someone is party to the consumerism problem, it is because they are brainwashed into doing so. And they do not know it. If we truly ARE all related, and all UNITED, and go by the WE ARE ALL THE SAME mantra, then if one deserves it, then we all deserve it. I would rather think nobody deserves it.

The Big picture for me, is that the technology has gotten so far out of hand, that the earth and its inhabitants is dying. The only solution is that we need a full on end to the GRID, with a full on RE-SET.

Nothing seems to be changing. Yes more people are seeing the reality of the problems, but it is not enough for a tipping point. No one is brave enough to step up and say no to their toys. Say no to TV,smartphones,WAR ,wireless,etc.

It has been mainstream news for a long time, that something could happen that could cause the grid to come down. Time enough for people to be prepared.

The problems of the world do not belong to AMERICANS. They belong to humans. We are ALL guilty.

[Calz]

Posted by Sidney (here)

the United States gives billions of dollars to other countries for "aid".

Nyet.

You make good points ... yet you miss the bigger picture in that countries are all the illusion of the elite.

USA has been made into what it is and has been based on the need for the bankster need for advancing technology and as a military arm.

Time has passed ... time to bring it down to it's knees with the wet dream of the one world system (of all types).


Unless you can parse out the banksters and the corporate machine ... (... and deeper) ... then the point is missed.


Gonna blame civilians anywhere in the world for what their "governments" do???


Ouch ...

[Hawkwind]

For starts- Good morning Avalon! This has become quite an interesting and productive discussion. Sometimes I forget just how many amazing people we have posting on this forum. Thanks for reminding me. You’re all invited over for a pot luck get together at my house this weekend. Oh what the heck, any weekend...every weekend! It’s bring your own everything, but as long as you bring yourselves a good time should be had by all. For those of you who haven’t visited before, it’s easy to find. First star to the left then straight on til morning. Free hugs for the first 10 billion visitors. See you there!
Okay, got that out of my system now into the fray!

Posted by heretogrow (here)
You are seen as a country and not a human.

Not by me you aren’t! Thanks for the comment though. It reminded me of one of my favorite songs. I’ll post it here for anyone else who might want to take a brief musical interlude. (The lyrics listed by the person who uploaded this are pretty horrendously wrong in a couple places though.)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Correct lyrics here http://www.leoslyrics.com/leon-russe...mirror-lyrics/

Posted by heretogrow (here)
IN THIS THREAD I WISH TO STAND UP AS AN AMERICAN WHO GENUINELY CARES!

YOU AREN’T ALONE IN THAT! THERE ARE LOTS OF US! NOW PLEASE TURN OFF THE CAPS LOCK!... thank you

Posted by heretogrow (here)
I would give my life for any one of you

If by that you mean you’d devote your life’s energy to helping others, you quite obviously already are. It’s not a hypothetical “would” and thank you. If you mean you’d die for any one of us, please don’t. The world is made better by the presence of beautiful people, not by their absence.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)

Posted by Hawkwind (here)
If karma is an operative principle in the universe, then we all get what we deserve. If part of that principle is compassion, then you might want to apply some in your posts.

That's a big 'If' you're swinging around there; have you seen this thread?
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...641#post842641

Well, I have now and you are free to believe that karma is an outdated belief, that’s your karma.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
... The opposition would need to be willing to learn and engage in practices that would/could be considered nefarious, undignified, dishonorable, and condemnable.
In summary, the opposition must become their opponent - by all appearance and indication...

So, the way to overcome evil is to become evil? Seriously?? Isn’t the philosophy of “the end justifies the means” kind of how we got into this mess in the first place?

Posted by risveglio (here)
... Don't blame the people living in the section of the world called by some the United States of America, most of us have nothing to do with our government.

Well, I don’t “blame” my neighbor’s cat for killing birds. That’s just what cats do. I’ve made it real clear to him, however, that he is not welcome to hang out near our bird bath. The world is how it is. That’s nobody’s fault and/or everybody’s fault. The CEO of Monsanto has a greater degree of culpability than the janitor who works at the factory, but anyone who feeds the beast is to one degree or another “to blame”and that’s all of us.
As far as I can see, we can only seek to maximize our contribution to forces moving in the direction we want to go and minimize our contribution to forces moving in the opposite direction. On that note, the fact that most Americans “have nothing to do with our government” is a big part of the reason the government is able to do what it does. We are programmed to be depoliticized and feel powerless to change things from the moment we’re born. What say we delete that programming and see what happens?

Posted by gripreaper (here)
... The corporatocracy is NOT United States specific, but it is global is scope, and couching the debate as nationalistic misses the point and focuses on the citizens of the United States rather than the true culprits of the demise....

This is one of the best posts I’ve ever seen anywhere. Up to this point:

Posted by gripreaper (here)
... Most people in the United States are good people, just like the people in Iraq and Syria, or Israel or Russia. They are just like you and me, and are awakening to the globalist agenda more and more each day. If you want to know what you can do about it, go outside and talk to your next door neighbor about the globalist agenda....

Nope, sorry. Most of the people I’ve met in the US and everywhere else are not what I would consider “good”. From my experience most people are less oriented toward serving others (STO) than serving self (STS), which is the best working definition I have of “good” and “evil”. I actually see service to all (STA), which would include self, as closer to what I would consider “good”, but STO is a more commonly used term, so I’ll stick with that.
I’ve never met anyone who was 100% STO/good. Nor have I met anyone who was 100% STS/evil. I have, however, encountered some pretty clearly discernible gradations along that scale. Accurately measuring which orientation is more dominant would be exceedingly difficult, but look around. War, poverty, and extreme environmental degradation simply could not exist in a world where most people cared as much for others as they do for themselves. A shift toward STO/good is taking place. People are awakening to the fact that our collective survival is dependent upon learning to live in harmony with each other and the planet. Hopefully that awakening will continue and accelerate, but we still have a long, long way to go and the clock is most definitely ticking.

Oh, and as for talking with my neighbors- I have tried and a few have been quite a bit more receptive to discussing things like this than I would have imagined. Most still seem to think I've got several screws loose or altogether missing. C'est la vie.

[Sidney]

Posted by Calz (here)

Posted by Sidney (here)

the United States gives billions of dollars to other countries for "aid".

Nyet.

You make good points ... yet you miss the bigger picture in that countries are all the illusion of the elite.

USA has been made into what it is and has been based on the need for the bankster need for advancing technology and as a military arm.

Time has passed ... time to bring it down to it's knees with the wet dream of the one world system (of all types).


Unless you can parse out the banksters and the corporate machine ... (... and deeper) ... then the point is missed.


Gonna blame civilians anywhere in the world for what their "governments" do???


Ouch ...

I did inject the fact that "aid" includes ulterior "political" motives, that I am sure most people understand is all part of the illusion. My point was, that it is not an American problem. Its a human problem.
But you are also correct in your analysis!!!!!!!!

[mosquito]

Posted by Limor (here)

There is nothing that pleases me more than to be wrong, especially in such matters, and I wholeheartedly appologise if that may have ofended you.

You didn't offend me and I doubt you ever will !!

I think the subject of China and its' population should be reserved for another thread, suffice it to say that this is a country with not only thousands of years of deeply embedded culture, but with many many layers which most foreigners will never penetrate, so I don't profess to be an expert, just an observer.

[mosquito]

Posted by Kelly Anne (here)

I think the seemed blaming from those who do not live here comes from a frustration. It is actually a 'yell' saying to us "We know the citizens of the United States are not stupid and we want to see them in action."

If they didn't care about us and the world and thought we could not make a difference, then there would be no outcry at all.

Absolutely right, at least from my point of view.

I for one am frustrated to the point of insanity and have reached the point where it's seriously dangerous for my health to keep quiet. I apologize to you and others if I seem to rant at times but, believe me, I'm actually holding back !

The Americans on this forum are the good ones, and it's to you that we are appealing - take responsibility for the state of your nation and ACT. Don't leave it to Mr and Mrs Lard-arse, don't wait for the aliens to save you, or Jesus or anyone else. It really is up to YOU.

[Roisin]

Stated the paragraph below in Gio's off-shoot thread on this topic...

As America became more "Evangelicalized", the "Fatalism Quotient" increased exponentially among the masses. The higher the "Fatalism Quotient" got, complacency among the masses rose too on several important levels, hence, why we are at the point where we are now. The NWO is already in place and has been for many years now. The shift has already taken place too. If you want to know which direction that shift has shifted to, be up at dawn to watch the sun rise.
----------
And further more,this is one good reason why Big Business has flourished in our country and the reason for the demise of the "mom and pop" shop too. In short, The American Dream and the perpetuation of it is over. Period. 99% who are still at it are, at best, just breaking even. The way to go is buying into a franchise. IOW, big business.

ps -- only saying that that's how it is days and I'm not by any means saying that this is a good thing. Quite the contrary.

[Shezbeth]

Posted by mariposafe (here)
I for one am frustrated to the point of insanity and have reached the point where it's seriously dangerous for my health to keep quiet. I apologize to you and others if I seem to rant at times but, believe me, I'm actually holding back !

The Americans on this forum are the good ones, and it's to you that we are appealing - take responsibility for the state of your nation and ACT. Don't leave it to Mr and Mrs Lard-arse, don't wait for the aliens to save you, or Jesus or anyone else. It really is up to YOU.

I totally agree and - despite my apparent candor - am likewise holding back and am finding it to be detrimental. There is far more at stake - future generations in particular - than comforts, distractions, and ease. I was recently terminated from a grocery store position because my outspoken criticism of a variety of things, including US consumerism. The store received a weekly grocery-specific newspaper and a monthly grocery-specific magazine, of which I was the only entry level person who A. read the stupid things, and B. was able and willing to contest the statements made by management in regards to 'what they had read' because their apathetic degree of critical thinking was impaired or simply absent.

As an example, Del Monte Intl. recently posted record sales for the 2013 fiscal year. This was touted as a good thing with CEOs smiling big on the glossy cover of the article,... unless one read to the bottom where it was stated an average of 22% and as much as a 30% increase in general product prices (either directly or through downsizing of product container volumes, i.e. smaller cans and packages for the same price). I was quick to point out in discussion (mgmt brought it up, I was just responding!) "This is not progress, this is not indicative of growth, this is indicative of rampant inflation and devaluation of currency due to - largely but not exclusively - a 80 bil./month bailout of the banks and decreased international confidence in the dollar. People aren't buying more, they're being charged more for buying less!". I was termed "appearing not happy" and "not a good fit" (even though I worked graveyard shifts, i.e. not around customers), even though my production numbers were well above my 'peers' and likewise above the natl average by over 25%. Enough about me though.

People need to hear the truth, whether they want to or not. I am not adverse (aside from the obvious) to being outspoken and if I am defamed, disdained, or dismissed (lit. or fig.) I will gladly accept that role because at the end of the day I know there were people (younger people almost exclusively) who I spoke to and conversed with who actually listened to what I was saying and/or in several case tested/evaluated my allegations.

I might suggest that a sizable part of the problem is amongst the middle to latter age percentage of the population (not dissimilar to the phenomenon described in the recent thread here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...t-polls-show-- ).

Mind you, I am not simply criticizing older people, especially those who frequent Avalon; I am - like is occurring in other posts - focused on the sleeping middle to late age percentages who have a greater ability (through resources etc.) to respond to or at least be aware of what is going on.

It would seem that there is a want to perceive that what is occurring locally, nationally, and internationally is 'nothing new' and has been 'seen before'. In a manner of speaking that is true but the degree of it is something new entirely, and the apathy/lethargy that is apparent in older individuals is being gratified and even encouraged to an increasing degree. I can't say I can't see why a person would superficially want to step back and be less participatory, but neither will I support nor cease to oppose abject laziness and inactivity (especially intellectual - that doesn't take much physical effort at ALL thanks to the internet).

[Sidney]

Posted by heretogrow (here)
I know this will be met with many eye rollers but I love you all. I really mean that. I am so sorry I was born on a continent where there is a nation of bullies who have aggravated and steered everything in the direction of materialism and profit. I do not subscribe to this. I DO NOT WISH TO BE COUNTED IN WITH THE MATERIALISTIC BULEYS THAT DOMINATE BECAUSE I AM SO FAR REMOVED FROM THAT. IN THIS THREAD I WISH TO STAND UP AS AN AMERICAN WHO GENUINELY CARES!

Heretogrow, your post n states exactly how I feel, only you have said it so much better and more eloquently than I ever could in a million years and without being defensive. Kudos

[heretogrow]

Thanks Sidney! I am so sorry for screaming in all caps but I have never in my life felt I have fit in in the American way. I have three kids and instead of having them conform I have tried to teach them to look, question and come to their own conclusions. I have stepped out of my comfort zone recently and tried to teach kids what I know about art and how to express themselves and their frustrations creatively. In all honestly it was seen as something good in the beginning but now I am seen as a crazy person in my hometown who has wild ideas. Because I think differently I am viewed as crazy. This has taken its toll on me and many times I have wanted to give up. But I won't. I honestly feel that we have to teach our youth how to sustain and survive and if we don't do it now we will have their blood on our hands for being apathetic and expecting someone else to do the job. My older kids were tinkerers who always managed to try to create something from nothing. My daughter is a different breed who constantly worries about what everyone else thinks. I am trying to get her past that, and enable her to find her gifts and honor them. Peer pressure is real and hard to overcome. I tell her the lie that crazy is just a word that means you think outside of the box but I have lived with that word's sting. I hope and pray I am doing the right thing but really I honestly do not know.

Thank you for your kind words and your response,
Much love,
Julia

[heretogrow]

I will be the first to say I do not know all of the answers, but I am willing to learn!

[GuyFox]

ARE YOU A C3 HUMAN ?

I'm back - relaxed, and not angry about anything.

As JFK said: "Anyone can make an error. It is not a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
This thread needed a provocative title IMO. But the one I choose originally went too far. I planned to change it on my own. (I posted the thread, then went to supper. On the way back to my computer, I thought maybe I should change the title. The first few posts confirmed that would be a good idea.)

Before posting any new comments, I want to thank everyone for all the great comments that make this such and interesting a readable thread - beyond my original expectations. Maybe being away for 2-3 days was a good thing, since it gave people a chance to develop the thread without any "direction" from the original poster. Well done, Proj-A!

I could probably respond to more than a dozen good posts here, and I may do that later. But first I want to restate two Big questions that seem to unlie many postings here:

1/ Are you blaming the Victims, if you say Americans deserve their troubles?
2/ What could have been done differently?

I will be thinking about both of these queestions, as I finish this post.

The Bad News:
+ America is in a true economic and political fix: Many families are hemorrhaging cash, and are dependent on govt handouts. The US economy is now set up to "harvest" cash from the middle class through: defense spending, inefficient medical care, an extremely energy inefficient living arrangement, and a banking system that is geared to supporting elites
+ Politicians are doing little or nothing to improve things, because they are nearly all bought off by big campaign donors, including banks, and elites outside the country. The current President is paying little attention to the Constitution, except in how he can undermine it,
+ The supreme court now seems controlled by an elites, possibly through blackmail using info supplied to an elite cabal by the NSA
+ Ordinary people are mostly still asleep, sedated by the corporate controlled media
+ Two members of the "old guard": Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush, look as if they might be front-runners in the 2016 Presidential election
+ The quality of food and water is declining, even as the power of the American fascist state is growing fast

The Good News
+ More and more people are waking up, as represented by the vast majority of posters on Proj-Avalon
+ The power of the mainstream media is fading fast. And many good alternative sources of information, with far more truth, are springing up everywhere, and gaining readers and viewers
+ "Homo-Consumer" (dedicated to shopping, consumption, and borrowng to do it) seems to be dying off fast, to be replaced by three new breeds: people who are either: Confused, Concerned about the state of the country, or Committed to doing something.



This thread can help old C-zero consumer-humans, and those who have moved on to become C1 (Confused), and C2 (Concerned) humans, progress even further into becoming C3 humans - awake, enlightened, and Committed... to getting UP and OFF THE SOFA doing useful things. There are already many posts like that on this thread. I have noticed that many fascinating New threads with C3-type ideas are becoming increasingly common on Proj-A.

So, the really Good News is: we here-on-PA are already beginning to THINK AND DO, what needs to be done differently.
Thanks again, for making this such a constructive thread.

[crosby]

"Default Re: Why Are Americans So Apathetic... And what can be done about it ?

apathy... why would i care? i gotta pain in my chest. i gotta run to (put your favorite store here) for some hotdogs. i need a pack of cigarettes. wheres my beer? what the hell is apathy? nobody cares about me.......hey the (put your favorite team here) are playing and I got money on this..... i gotta pain in my chest. i gotta run to (put your favorite store here) for some hotdogs. i need a pack of cigarettes. wheres my beer? Where is the apathy? it is right in society (every society). Right in your face (in every face). Right in everybody's face. it isn't only in America, it is everywhere. we just have more words to describe it.....

Please do not despair, it doesn't run rampant ~ so many are aware. and they are working behind the scenes to change this unfortunate cruci-fiction. who the hell cares about apathy? WE DO! who the hell cares about hotdogs? NOBODY! who the hell cares about a favorite team? NOBODY! WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT US AND YOU? EVERYBODY........... thank you Gio..... you bring great awareness to this concern........

bring it on........i say, if you have the means to discuss this issue, then you have the means to pay it forward and do the right thing..... i believe i will be placing this in another thread........as well.
all the best,
crosby

cynicism is good - ridicule - - bad. stick with this thread. there is a definitive power with numbers."



just thought I would copy/paste this from Gio's thread. you know, it remains to be seen if people can actually formulate a cohesive strategy against the negative forces at work. i believe that your thread propagates negativity against Americans. What good does it do to maintain separation of the masses? What positive nature do you represent? Do you honestly believe what it is that you are saying? And, how long do you think you will get away with it here?
crosby

[GuyFox]

Project Avalonians you should be proud of this!
MSM is in its "Death Throes" recent polls show!!
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...t-polls-show--
(as Posted there):
THIS is great news !
.
Finishing off the MSM, and burying their toxic influence, would be a great, and wondrous victory for Truth Seekers.
This would help cut-off income to the elites, and disable they main source of mind control.



What is needed is a new and better way to communicate Truth. Fortunately, the pieces of the puzzle which may allow Alternative Truths to be better distributed are slowly coming together.

This is one of the Key pieces we need in our evolution towards becoming C3: Awake, and Aware Committed Humans!

[wnlight]

Thank you, Shezbeth.

Now that I have had a little time to cool off, I see that I did not make the point that I really needed to make. Thank you for pointing that out to me. The message that GuyFox made is not incorrect. My negative reaction was because GuyFox seemed to be insulting me and the many people of this forum that really DO care about what is happening to North Americans and the rest of the human race. GuyFox appeared to be telling me along with the rest of the forum members that we are still asleep and should wake up. That I am part of the problem - not part of the solution. So I took his post as a personal attack, and reacted accordingly. By my reaction, I DID become part of the problem. I became a part of the dividing force that can only do us harm.

For that I apologise.

I understand the frustration that comes from seeing the apathy in the faces of North Americans no matter what (so it seems) that we do. So we express our outrage. Maybe it will help a little that the USA expats that live here in Ecuador are very much aware of the problems that we are facing and mostly aware of the causes. No matter where we gather, I see it in their faces and their conversations that they know what is going on. Many have left the USA for that reason.

[GuyFox]

Thanks, for that post, wnlight.

It was never my intention to insult anyone - just to provoke people into thinking, and maybe shake up some complacent attitudes. (The only one who was personally attacked and insulted on this thread was me. But I can take it, and let it pass.)

I am very happy to share ideas/strategies with you on how to turn things around.
What are your thoughts on that?

[GuyFox]

Posted by Jake (here)
Guyfox. I apologize for insulting your attitude... I guess I wanted to step into the shoes of someone who leads with insults, and see how that worked out for me...

1.) I fell terrible about it.
2.) Nobody is discussing the subject matter at hand.
3.) There is a division among members that leaves a stink in the air.
4.) I cannot do what I do best. (Make friends with members, especially those that I don't get along with at first.)


As a moderater, who takes his duties seriously,, I will impose a small vacation on myself,, to think about what I've done. Shame on me for insulting another member.

Love to all.
Jake.

P.S. to GuyFox... I am not afraid to grow, for that I thank you. And I challenge you to do the same.

Wow. Amazing Jake.
I am moved.
(And I have also moved on for THAT post... I stopped thinking about it when I started posting here again.)

[GuyFox]

A NEW PLAYGROUND ?

This interesting thread has fizzled...
It seems to have happened before I returned (after a 2-3 day break), which is sad.

The good news is that a good part of the energy was picked up by a New thread:

Why Are Americans So Apathetic... And what can be done about it ?
(Started by giovonni - Thanks for keeping the flame burning)
> https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-done-about-it

But I want to revive the single part which I found MOST interesting.
Therefore I will be starting a New thread shortly, entitled:
REVERSING THE FLOW of Troubles - What can we do?

LINK:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...What-can-we-do