Do Americans deserve the Trouble Flowing their way?

[aheb]

I am not American, but I will say two things. The first is that I only became aware of all the financial malpractice in the world by reading what Americans had written. I would say that 8 out of 10 writers of blogs etc on this subject are American with only one or two Europeans/English contributing.
The other is that Americans have a very different culture and sadly have absorbed into that culture many very militaristic attitudes, in fact I think that this is a deliberate attempt at mind control by the elites. Although I think the same attitude was prevelant in the UK in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
There is a lot of apathy and indifference , when I saw that US gunship shooting up those innocent civilians,on Wikileaks I was sick to my stomache and I was even more appalled when Bradley Manning was sent to prison for revealing it. We all know why Snowden went to russia now.
I do think though that the general populace be it in the US the UK or Europe are generally indifferent or unaware of what is going on.and it makes me mad as well

[heretogrow]

You can't change it alone no matter how much you want real change. It is like being born into a bad family of psychopaths. You didn't ask to be born in this particular place but you are guilty of the flag flying over your head and guilty of everything that was ever done and will be done in its name just the same. You may think for yourself and really try to make a difference anyway you can but it will never be enough. You are seen as a country and not a human. So you make the most of it and treat others with the respect that you wish you were treated with in return.

This could be anywhere on the planet. It is all the same and we are all in different places but yet the same in so many ways. Peace
and much love to all of us,
Julia

[Kelly Anne]

Posted by GuyFox (here)

Posted by Strat (here)
Well, I think you'd be better off posting this somewhere else because you're not saying anything that anyone doesn't already know and you're doing it in an off putting fashion. Keep in mind you're posting this on Avalon. If you ever call out any American you may as well call me out. Please be specific with who you call out. I'm not challenging you or puffing my chest out or anything it's just that we can work together if our ideologies are inline.

I'm open to suggestions, Strat.
How would you deliver the message that America has SHOPPED its way into the poorhouse,
and needs to wake up, and raise its game (before it is too late) ?

I LOVE your photo, btw.
I think it is so very true than many Americans have shot themselves in the foot, and in the head by over-consuming gasoline. (IF, indeed, that is the point you are making.)

The consumption thing got way out of hand over the last 3-4 decades, I think. it left many people in huge homes, surrounded by things they did not need, driving long distances... And deeply in Debt.

This is one of the first posts I am reading in Avalon.

I did not take offense to the title or what you are saying.

As I get more involved in the community I will write about my experiences.

What first came to my mind is...how far has American consumerism spread to the rest of the world?

I see it a lot

So, will things change here in America soon enough to help us and the rest of the world?

[ghostrider]

It is my belief that setting up our money based on the petro-dollar was the beginning of the end... It is said America has exhausted the oil supply, hence the reason for fracking nowadays ....earth takes thousands of years to make oil and we pull millions of barrels per day out of her... It had to run out... Our money will be worth half and the price of things will double overnight ...people will wake up when they go hungry...empty shelves is an eye opener, in a country built on the consumer mentality...

[Kelly Anne]

Posted by CurtisW (here)
Most Americans know something is wrong but don't have the knowledge, the resources or the time to figure out that we've been hijacked by a faceless cabal of global oligarchs who literally want most of us dead...

In fairness, this is a hard reality to face when you've grown up on a steady diet of Mickey Mouse... and stories about the glory days of Washington, Lincoln, and FDR.

The truth is we face an assault on all sides. Our dollar is being devalued. Our minds are being harassed and controlled; our bodies are being poisoned, fattened and sterilized.

Our media is the most wretched outside of state TV in China. Our education system is abhorrent. 90% of us don't know the difference between socialism and democracy, much less democracy and a republic.

We're being fluoridated and dosed with heavy metals and toxins and fed genetically altered frankenfood.

We pay $2000 to go to the dentist for a root canal (after insurance).

It costs 75K to get an undergraduate degree. A huge proportion of Americans have to borrow money each month just to pay the interest on credit debt (which was itself accrued to pay for living expenses)...and our real wages haven't gone up since the 70's.

We have vast unemployment, and underemployment, just like Europe, except with virtually no safety net. Those who have good paying jobs are taxed at asinine levels, which is odd because we don't really receive anything in return for this money as our infrastructure is caving in all around us.

And we don't get vacations, or reasonable amounts of sick time, or reasonable family leave when we have children. And any health concern greater than tonsillitis will very often result in personal bankruptcy.

Our government is abysmally corrupt... like third world banana republic corrupt. We have the biggest inequity in wealth of any country in the world.

We've been targeted. We've been taken out. We're mob-hit victims bleeding in the street.

We don't have much time to consider how it got this way because we're trying to stay alive.

So cut us, and yourself, some slack.

Exactly how I feel...

Then, where do I/we start? :/

[Kelly Anne]

Posted by yelik (here)
America isn’t the only place in the world where people are still asleep; the UK is just as bad, if not worse. Most western economies follow similar strategies of encouraging consumer spending because it constitutes around 70% of GDP. GuyFox is right you cannot spend your way out of the huge debt that burdens the west, in particular, the UK. Thanks to the corrupt media the pound is strengthening and there’s very positive market sentiment, however our already horrendous debt is actually getting worse despite what our politicians say. We are broke so is the US and Europe.

The US is a superpower that cannot afford to keep spending on its military might and fighting and instigating wars around the world. It will not solve or help anybody accept the elites. We all should know that the secret service in the US, UK and Germany are mostly responsible for stirring up unrest around the world so as to grow the military industrial complex; the problem is they've robbed our governments and people of their wealth. If they can crash the markets again then everyone could be in the poor house, which is what they want. The world will be weak and ready for control.

All superpowers come to an end. The problem is that the west does not want China to become too powerful so everything will be done to stop them, the thing is can / should America hold onto its position.

I've heard this from people I've connected with in the UK also.

[Kelly Anne]

Posted by aheb (here)
I am not American, but I will say two things. The first is that I only became aware of all the financial malpractice in the world by reading what Americans had written. I would say that 8 out of 10 writers of blogs etc on this subject are American with only one or two Europeans/English contributing.
The other is that Americans have a very different culture and sadly have absorbed into that culture many very militaristic attitudes, in fact I think that this is a deliberate attempt at mind control by the elites. Although I think the same attitude was prevelant in the UK in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
There is a lot of apathy and indifference , when I saw that US gunship shooting up those innocent civilians,on Wikileaks I was sick to my stomache and I was even more appalled when Bradley Manning was sent to prison for revealing it. We all know why Snowden went to russia now.
I do think though that the general populace be it in the US the UK or Europe are generally indifferent or unaware of what is going on.and it makes me mad as well

Absolutely...the general populace in indifferent and unaware.

It is mind control from my experience.

When I've tried to bring up the subject and discuss with some of my closest friends and family I am blown off...interrupted with silly trivial conversation... :/

[Ahnung-quay]

Isn't there another thread on PA that tells us that the oil supply is really not exhausted? Didn't all of the big oil companies buy all of the operating oil wells from the individuals that owned them and then shut them down? Is the low oil supply just reeling in the string just like they do to the jobs, the food, and most in-demand products while the wages stay stagnant?

I'm a hard worker and I take care of myself. I have little debt compared to most because I don't charge things or buy on time if I can help it. My credit rating is not spectacular but, it's not in the dumps either. I don't buy the latest fashions and I don't fell the need to be high maintenance. I try to stay reasonably informed on world, national and local news (the real news not MSM). I like the earth and I want to help take care of Her for the next generations. I live simply and keep my use of utilities low as possible. I drive an economical car. I'm not a drunk or a drug addict (not even any prescription medication). I'm not racist. I have quite a few friends from other countries. I believe everyone has gifts to share with the rest of humanity.

I despise politics (run by mobsters) and the IRS (I don't come here to be a slave). I'd like to take 90% of our present national leaders and run them out of the country on a rail. Even though I have some faults as we all do, I don't think I'm a bad person.

I don't think that I deserve any trouble that may be flowing my way.

[Ahnung-quay]

And, P.S. all war is stupid- quote from my dad (who I always listened to).

[mosquito]

Thank you Guy for having the balls (am I allowed to say balls ?) to start this thread.

So some people are offended by the truth. Well to quote Stephen Fry - "So f*cking what ?" (And NO, I'm not going to apologize to Carmody or any other prissy americans (deliberate lower case) who don't like real English).

Guess what ? There are a million and one things that offend me about this corporate american nightmare that our once beautiful planet has become, I'm not going to list any of them because there is no point, suffice it to say that if I'M offended, that's MY choice, I own it.

It's fascinating to read that so many americans say "it's not my fault". Oh really ? Well maybe you can explain to me exactly who is responsible for the state of your country ? I'M responsible for every problem I have in my life. I'M responsible, jointly, for the apathetic mess that is the UK at the moment. I'M equally jointly responsible for the state that the world is in at the moment. Crying and whinging about he truth doesn't make it go away.

FACT - "The USA", by which I mean the corporate militarized bully, NOT the likes of Dennis and Paul, is behaving exactly like a rapidly metastasizing aggressive cancer, which means that the human race is in a near terminal condition. We have 3 choices:

1. Let it kill us (hmmmmm, maybe not the best),
2. Apply Western Medical "logic" (bomb it into non-existence), or
3. Take a holistic approach and heal it/us.

Option 2 won't work, for the same reason that chemotherapy doesn't work; it wouldn't remove the underlying cause, it would merely eradicate a manifestation of the illness. There are plenty of other institutions/countries waiting to take the mantle from "The USA", which is symbolically one of the heads of the beast mentioned in Revelations (no I'm not going all biblical on you, Revelations is about the only book of the bible worth reading).

"The USA" is a manifestation, a nasty aggressive manifestation, of our deep underlying sickness. I don't think there is one word to describe this sickness, but maybe it's greed, selfishness, self-agrandizement (is that a word ?), the belief that "me me me" is all that counts, failure to consider our fellow beings, failure to recognize we are PART of nature, PART of the universe.

We ALL have to wake up to the truth of who we are, then the control structures, be they religions, countries, governments, corporations will fall apart at the seams. How long that will take is anyone's guess, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Shezbeth]

Posted by Kelly Anne (here)
Then, where do I/we start? :/

Greetings, and allow me to welcome you to Avalon. You have picked an auspicious topic to inaugurate your participation! Since yours is among the most pertinent of questions currently facing this thread, I will address it.

I really can't accurately or definitively answer your question. What I will say is that the individuals, groups, corporations, and interests that have been pulling the strings that have resulted in the circumstances we see today began their initiatives no less than ~120 years ago. If the work of Charlotte Iserbyt is to be considered authoritative, it began with a variety of secret societies, though it stands to reason that the foundation from which those societies were potentiated began longer ago than that; they comprised the elite after all, and the elite did not spring up out of nowhere. If other accounts are to be considered authoritative (I can't recall the specific source, but I know David Icke references it in many of his works) the elite - and particularly the reigning royal family of Britain (et. al) - can trace their lineages as far back as Egypt and in some cases further back to Sumer. At Sumer, (assuming one doesn't give credence to the potential during Egypt) is where there is a wealth of evidence pertaining to the participation/manipulation with/by the Sumerian Gods and/or the Annunaki.

Simply put, we may have to start with alien involvement - which many could rightly suggest is occurring now (the last 50 years certainly) - and may take a very gradual and steady progression of the unyielding application of pressure, intent, and resources (not to mention lives, but we'll get to that) over the course of anywhere from ~120 years to ~7000 years (if memory serves) if one is to base the strategy on historical precedent.

One could suggest that with the advent of technologies that a significant timeframe could be reduced to a fraction, though I counter that any advances that have been made on the public end of the spectrum have been long outdistanced on the 'private' (controller) side. Communication can certainly be said to have been streamlined, but on both sides of the line of scrimmage.

My intention in suggesting the year-threshold is to imply and indicate that success (to a lasting degree) will - in observance of overwhelming probability - be unrealized within the lifetime of anyone alive at the moment; I am not trying to be a downer, I am just suggesting that anyone actively involved be realistic about their expectations.

The long initial paragraph could be readily summarized by the following; we start by emulating the opposition. The participating and active opposition to the controllers must become as exclusive as the secret societies from which the controllers operated and sprang. I'm talking the whole nine yards; oaths, rituals, initiations, degrees, checks and balances, everything. The opposition (that's what I'll refer to it for simplicity) will need to learn subtlety, manipulation, strategy, subterfuge; the art of war in a nutshell, but to apply it in a manner that actually benefits humanity (literally, not just on paper). The opposition would need to be willing to learn and engage in practices that would/could be considered nefarious, undignified, dishonorable, and condemnable.

In summary, the opposition must become their opponent - by all appearance and indication - and to do as has been done before. This would cost countless resources, lives, years, and too many others to mention, and still there would be no guarantee of victory.

As above, so below.

"When facing an insurmountable opponent or unraveling a grand tapestry, it is best to start from the edges," - Jarlaxle

The answer then, begins on the fringes through generational descendants willing and able to live in the confines of the increasingly aggressive structures and slowly and ever so gradually build toward a day and time where there there are sufficient means to outweigh the controllers and their controls. The magnitude of population could change the situation in a day, but cannot be rallied under the same goals; at least not yet, and not with the ability to achieve stability in the aftermath.

You will notice that I have largely danced around the question - suggesting topics and possible areas of inquiry and investigation - but without identifying what we/you do; this was deliberate. What we/you do is stop asking what we/you do and decide for yourself; be resolute in that decision and unflinching in the face of the overwhelming adversity that is all but a given. Recognize that the majority perception in and around the US is a symptom of something, and not a cause in and of its self; mind control is not the cause, but the result of cause. Openness and sensitivity to changing climates and circumstances are a must, mindful of efficacy, pragmatism, and the difference between win-able battles and winning the 'war'. Be as wise as serpents, as the saying goes.

I hope no one mistakes this post as pessimistic; quite the contrary, that I'm even speaking it is a testament of optimism, else I would not bother. There IS a chance, but those participating must have realistic expectations. If I have overestimated the requirements, so much the better.

But then, this post could be considered off topic. ^_~

[heretogrow]

I know this will be met with many eye rollers but I love you all. I really mean that. I am so sorry I was born on a continent where there is a nation of bullies who have aggravated and steered everything in the direction of materialism and profit. I do not subscribe to this. I DO NOT WISH TO BE COUNTED IN WITH THE MATERIALISTIC BULEYS THAT DOMINATE BECAUSE I AM SO FAR REMOVED FROM THAT. IN THIS THREAD I WISH TO STAND UP AS AN AMERICAN WHO GENUINELY CARES!

[Freed Fox]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
The long initial paragraph could be readily summarized by the following; we start by emulating the opposition. The participating and active opposition to the controllers must become as exclusive as the secret societies from which the controllers operated and sprang. I'm talking the whole nine yards; oaths, rituals, initiations, degrees, checks and balances, everything. The opposition (that's what I'll refer to it for simplicity) will need to learn subtlety, manipulation, strategy, subterfuge; the art of war in a nutshell, but to apply it in a manner that actually benefits humanity (literally, not just on paper). The opposition would need to be willing to learn and engage in practices that would/could be considered nefarious, undignified, dishonorable, and condemnable.

I would like to politely suggest that the above is a terrible idea. I agree more with mariposafe in that the only viable remedy is a holistic approach which leads to healing; anything but nefarious or condemnable.

This (primarily, rampant consumerism) is what appears to me to be a psychological, societal sickness. I don't think it is constructive to attribute it to influence or manipulation by the likes of some unseen force such as the Annunaki. I am not dismissing the possibility though, mind you; rather I believe that pointing to such a causative source will only serve to disempower and/or 'turn-off' potential 'initiates' to the cause of the greater good (which is - as I see it - setting us upon a more sustainable, compassionate, and just course as a society). Furthermore, there is no practical difference in the approach; bringing to light the consequences of unsustainable ways of living, changing those ways, and mitigating the disproportionate power and influence that corporations and industries have which have vested interests in continuing the current paradigm. I don't think it is unrealistically idealistic to say that there is no need for anyone's heads to be mounted on spikes here. Finally, if there really is a means of (other worldly) mass manipulation so as to work on such a large scale, while seemingly being so deeply embedded into the psyches of so many, I think it is only logical that such sophisticated means of influence would not allow for so many exceptions. Ipso facto, we wouldn't be here discussing the problem. And, believe it or not, Avalon is not the only community aware of these issues. I could be wrong, but that's always been a personal nitpick of mine when pinning the blame on anything other than human agencies themselves.

Humanity shouldn't need another 'hidden hand' to manipulate it into doing what is best for itself as a species and, for that matter, the planet as a whole... they just need more awareness and less ignorance and/or apathy. My honest opinion.

[Ahnung-quay]

I think you're right Shezbeth. The El-ites; followers of El. They go way back to the Annunaki, a faction of them anyway.

My post above was not to absolve myself of responsibility but, more to point out that the bulk of the responsibility for the mess that we're lies with the past and present leadership that we've been handed in the U.S. I say handed because it's my belief that we haven't really elected anyone to major positions within our government for many years. We've all been sold a bill of goods through our corporations, our three branches of government, our education system and our media and, unfortunately we are left with a mess.

I take heart that more and more people seem to be waking up. Small, grassroots initiatives are a good way but, we also need to start demanding that corporations (and lawyers) get out of our politics. We also need to increase boycotting of corporations that produce things that are killing the earth. The earth should have personhood status rather than the corporations.

Perhaps it will take a revolution and I pray that can be done peacefully for the most part. It's navigating that without extincting ourselves that would be the tricky part. I'm willing to help in any way that I can. This country could be great like it never was before, not in a nationalistic way but, in a service to humanity and earth way. I hope enough of us can wake up in time....

[heretogrow]

I would give my life for any one of you and to eradicate all of the injustice that has been done in the name of my country. Still I will stand in my own two shoes and try to make a difference that counts to benefit all. Surely as Avalonians you can understand that. To all who have been maimed in my country's name I am so sorry. We all in this world, deserve so much more!!!

GUY FOX, thank you for awakening and stirring the human rights movement within me. Your thread is most important and appreciated for its content and thought provoking truths that ring loud!

[Shezbeth]

In chess, the white side defeats the black side in essentially the same manner that the black side defeats the white side; there is no overall morality or laudability to any of it, one side simply begins with the initiative.

Simply put, the unwillingness to go to the lengths of the opponent (the controllers) is why we (their opposition) have been losing; the desire to see one side as 'better' is why it has been doing 'worse'.

[risveglio]

I think we need to separate a person living in the United States from the actions of the United States government. Isn't the consensus on this site that the government leaders we elect are not really in control or just part of the game? I think the number of people that have become aware of the irrelevance of government over the last 4 years is quite miraculous and soon, with our without a consciousness raise, the government will be needed less and less. They know this and that is why they are pushing so hard now.

The electric car is 2-3 years away from becoming the next big thing, this will make oil cheap. Driverless cars are right around the corner, there goes your speeding tickets, reckless driving, most car accidents, and the need for traffic cops and the revenue they bring in. There are companies out there that provide high quality, gmo free, organic foods for an affordable rate and some even allow you to share in the profits. There are scientists out there working on free energy, they may not find it but they may discover cheaper energy. Look how many of our cool products were just an accident.

We just need to teach us to be positive, to love and to show those that still think voting for which bullet they kill you with matters. We need to stop praising the military, we need to tell our current service men to lay down there weapons and say we are not doing this anymore.

We are winning. The problem is that the only way we win is when enough of us have become free. Free of mind control. Free of the poison. Free of the hate. Free of the worry and the anger. And when you become free, or understand what it means to be free, SHARE IT. If you are wealthy and deserve to be, then teach those that are not wealthy how to become wealthy. If you don't deserve it, pay someone to teach you how to stay wealthy and then teach someone. If you are filled with compassion, teach someone how to have compassion. If you are filled with love, teach someone to love. If you feel like you are different, like you have a right to be angry, filled with your own self doubt, sulking in your depression or your sickness, look inside and figure out how you can work on it and fix it so you can be taught to be wealthy and filled with compassion and love.

Don't blame the people living in the section of the world called by some the United States of America, most of us have nothing to do with our government.

[heretogrow]

I wholeheartedly agree, risveglio. I don't want to fight with anyone. I want to apologize for the wrongs done and make amends. We have such a long way to go but I want to start somewhere. That somewhere is with a heart that really cares. I do not want to be part of the division. I want to be part of the solution. I will find a way to be that!

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by CurtisW (here)
We pay $2000 to go to the dentist for a root canal (after insurance).

Side story: when I bought a wheel chair for my sister a couple of years ago, I had a choice of:

• buying it on insurance, and with her co-pay of $14 per month for 13 months (with the insurance covering the other $500), or
• buying it cash, and paying $104 for it (period, full price.)

For those who don't easily multiply in their heads, 14 * 13 is 182. The 104 is cheaper (nevermind the insurance portion.)

It's insane.

(The above numbers are from memory, and may differ slightly from the actual numbers.)

... and don't get me started on root canals -- they are bad dentistry .

[gripreaper]

I want to answer the question in the OP, within the overall context of the United States and it’s people.

Our forefathers braved the oceans and came to this continent to escape tyranny and oppression, the divisiveness and control which has existed on this planet for eons, not specific to the United States. Remember, this country is only a little over 200 years old, and from the very beginning, the founding fathers were a mixed bag of elitists with ties to the crown, died in the wool freemasons, hell bent on making this country an agent of the Vatican and the banksters, while the rest of the delegates did want freedom and liberty.

This battle raged on for the first century, when the banksters finally gained their foothold, through wars and debt. Once the 1913 Federal Reserve Act was passed, the banksters had control. The United States has been under a military state of emergency since the mid 1800’s, all citizens were made wards of the state, chattel for the bankruptcy, and the globalist banksters have controlled all aspects of industry, education, government, media, and religion ever since.

To say that US citizens are rampantly consumerist misses the point, considering that the debt based fiat monetary system is designed to cannibalize resources through imperialistic expansion and slavery. After the great depression of the 1930’s, where money per capita in circulation was reduced to about 3 dollars per person, it became almost impossible to survive and function until Roosevelt gave us the New Deal under social security, and other entitlements. We were sold a bill of goods in exchange for our labor “in perpetuity” to the banksters.

The main reason the United States was ALLOWED to prosper so extensively in the last 70 years since then, is because the elite needed an educated work force to back engineer the stellar technology and to implement their covert black op’s agendas within a rapid timeline, based on a perceived threat and the need to bring the planet up to speed with other off world technology.

Consider taking about 100 million people with a gross GDP of about 3.5 trillion a year at the turn of the last century, to 300 million people and a GDP of 17 trillion a year today. This happened because it was engineered to happen, a collateral side effect being consumerism. Although it appears that US citizens are spoiled and have wealth, none of us own anything or hold allodial fee simple title to any tangible assets, and none of the fiat currency we hold in savings has any intrinsic value.

We have been duped, lied to, covertly and overtly manipulated, and used to create the most massive underground economy and technology known to this planet, providing the globalists with the largest mercenary military force for their colonialistic imperialism to rape and pillage the entire planet. The corporatocracy is NOT United States specific, but it is global is scope, and couching the debate as nationalistic misses the point and focuses on the citizens of the United States rather than the true culprits of the demise.

The demise of modern western societies is NOT United States specific, and neither is the imminent transformation taking place. It is engineered globally, is a global phenomenon, and affects all of us globally, and is slated to come to a town near you, if it hasn’t already.

The expansion of the United States was engineered, and so is the collapse of the United States an engineered phenomenon. Nothing happens by accident and the populace has nothing to say about it and how their futures are to be guided until we lose the nationalistic blame game and stand as one human species all around the world and realize the problem is global, and not national. The elite have NO nationalistic tendencies or proclivities, and we should not either.

Most people in the United States are good people, just like the people in Iraq and Syria, or Israel or Russia. They are just like you and me, and are awakening to the globalist agenda more and more each day. If you want to know what you can do about it, go outside and talk to your next door neighbor about the globalist agenda. Keep studying and learning and sharing, and doing what you can to NO LONGER support the globalist corporatocracy. ALL OF US are in the same boat. We each need to do our part to starve the beast and awaken our neighbors.

Creating divisiveness and pointing the finger at US citizens is part of the divisive agenda, the same agenda the elite use. The United States does not deserve the trouble flowing their way any more than any other nation. Let us rise above and take the higher ground, and work on what unites us all and not focus on any one segment of humanity and how they are different, or what they deserve or don't deserve.

The very word "deserve" implies an agenda, meting out rewards or punishment based on behavior, or a set of relativistic values and morals, decided by whom? Who deserves to be at the top of the power pyramid, and who deserves to be at the bottom? We need to move away from the pyramidal power structures of the last several millennium, with the elite at the top an all of us at the bottom, and the corporations and banks in the middle.

I think all of us are sick of war and debt, aren't we?