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Thread: Atlantis: where and when was it?

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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Atlantis: where and when was it?

    I am thinking about Atlantis as a worldwide maritime culture with a "motherland" off the Americas. I am wondering when Atlantis did "perish" (as stated by Plato) and relate it possibly to a cometary event 12,900 years ago. I am also thinking about the Atlantean legacy that we relate as the "beginning" of modern history. Just wanted to share some things AND in case anyone is also absorbed by thinking about "Atlantis", FEEL FREE TO DISCUSS ATLANTIS....

    I have been interested in megalithic archeology ever since Graham Hancock first brought it to my attention. Also, I have been interested in "Catastrophobia" as Barbara Hand Clow coined that expression. There was at least one previous GRAND civilization. Something very difficult has effected the human "mind". We have suffered amnesia. This still effects us.

    It always fascinated me to imagine that the homeland of Atlantis was located off the coast of now North and South America.

    There was once a sea faring world wide civilization that had a common culture which was like a mother culture to many different children. This is evidenced in common features that can be identified. Evidence is found in many commonalities across the world.

    It is possible that during the last great ice age, civilization was maritime and the sea levels much lower. Something happened like a cometary event and suddenly melted the ice? Civilization was plowed over and an ice time commenced again. The world wide culture was fragmented. North America was decimated. It seems possible that perhaps the timeline for this catastrophe Plato described could be within the ball park of a cometary event around 12,900 years ago?

    Here is just one example of the synthesis of information connecting across vast distances. Maybe the "mother land" of Atlantis was here in this area? Maybe the Olmecs were Atlantean descendants?

    Quote ATLANTIS:
    The Berber tribes of North Africa call it Attala, the Basques Atlaintika, the Vikings Atli, the Babylonians Arallu, and the Aztecs Aztlán or Tulan. The Hindus referred to Atlantis or different portions of it, in various stages of its evolution, as Atala, Saka-dvipa (early Atlantis), Sveta-dvipa (‘white island’), Ruta and Daitya (large islands remaining after most of Atlantis had sunk), and Sankha- (or Sancha-) dvipa (Poseidonis).

    We know for fact that the Egyptian pyramids were coated with fine white limestone.
    Both, written and - more recently - photographic evidence reveal the face of Atlantis: an island of gigantic pyramids and temples (dedicated to the gods). Is this why the island was known as Sveta-dvipa (the white island)?

    Sunk cities (pavement, monuments & pyramids) have been discovered where Atlantis continent was located:

    .....“When we published the first news of this finding,” she said, “the University of Veracruz was interested in our work and we had recorded images of these structures on the seabed. Specifically, the Institute of Anthropology of the University excavations invited me. They were doing [studies] on parts and ruins of the Olmec civilization.

    “When they saw these submarine images [they] found similarities and parallels with the ruins found in these excavations that the Institute was undertaking.

    “The Olmecs and other native peoples all have primary morphology marking the arrival of this continent. This mean coming from the direction of Cuba, and had to occur in a very large earthquake where their land sank.

    Morphologies indicate that they belong to three families who were saved. One of these families came to the coast of Veracruz, which are supposedly the Olmec. Others came to Central America and traveled to the Pacific coast, and these families created the civilization of the Americas as we know it today, because they distributed all their knowledge.

    When these anthropologists saw underwater images of this city, and saw some stone monoliths, some symbol, and inscriptions, they identified with Olmec motifs. They were very surprised.” http://humansarefree.com/2011/09/atl...nnections.html
    Maybe cultures like the Olmec's and others had consistent contact that was then interrupted at a much earlier and much older than suspected or admitted time? As to "Atlantis" as a homeland, could the regional base of Atlantis have stretched as shown here?



    Throughout the world, harbors are seen on now flooded areas that were once shorelines

    Quote Evidence on this site, Ancient Canal Builders shows many harbor areas on much of New York's Long Island Sound and other East Coast locations, Florida Gulf Coast, the Louisiana Delta and Mexico, to have been 'worked' and 'inhabited' by a very large, and technically sophisticated population of canal builders during some remote period. Both Florida and New York have extensive offshore harbor and canal-channel systems that are at least -7,000 years old.
    Around 12,900 years ago, did a comet devastate the North American continent and the region of the Atlantis homeland? The Carolina Bays show the region was strafed northwest to southeast. It was evidentally from the residual markings on the earth, as powerful an event as something like this.

    Quote ‘There is a tendency in this field to label any circular feature a crater,’ says Michael Oskin of the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, who surely had in mind the famous Carolina Bays when he said these words. These are literally ten of thousands of elliptical craters, orientated northwest to southeast that cover large areas of not just the Carolinas but several states from New Jersey down to Florida. Many are in swampland and filled with water, thus are taken simply to be wind-created lakes or ponds. Ever since their discovery in the 1930s, following the advent of aerial photography, there has been mounting speculation that the Carolina Bays, and other similar elliptical craters in the Yukon permafrost, are impact craters caused by either the aerial bombardment of meteorites, or the fragments of some more substantial object such a comet or asteroid, similar to the one suspected of causing an explosion of immense magnitude in a remote forested region in Tunguska, Siberia, in 1908.

    Carbon-dating evidence from the Carolina Bays has provided compelling evidence that they were formed around the end of the Pleistocene period, and many bear characteristic lips or banks at their southeast ends, suggesting that whatever caused them arrived from the northwest.http://researchgroupfb.wordpress.com...900-years-ago/
    Quote North America’s woolly mammoth, giant ground sloths and sabre-tooth tigers were wiped out by a devastating comet 12,900 years ago.

    This is according to a controversial study by Californian Professor James Kennet which suggests that an ancient cosmic impact triggered a vicious cold snap.

    Now a research team from University of California, Santa Barbara, claims to have further evidence to back up Professor Kennett's 2007 ‘Younger Dryas impact theory’.
    Scientists from University of California, Santa Barbara, found nanodiamonds around rock sediment that formed during the Big Freeze 12.900 years ago.

    Scientists from University of California, Santa Barbara, found nanodiamonds around rock sediment that formed during the Big Freeze 12.900 years ago.

    The Younger Dryas, or the ‘Big Freeze’, saw a rapid return to glacial conditions in the higher latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere between 12,900–11,500 years ago.

    Quote Did a Comet Hit Earth 12,900 Years Ago?
    Nanodiamonds found across North America suggest that major climate change could have been cosmically instigated

    Roughly 12,900 years ago, massive global cooling kicked in abruptly, along with the end of the line for some 35 different mammal species, including the mammoth, as well as the so-called Clovis culture of prehistoric North Americans. Various theories have been proposed for the die-off, ranging from abrupt climate change to overhunting once humans were let loose on the wilds of North America. But now nanodiamonds found in the sediments from this time period point to an alternative: a massive explosion or explosions by a fragmentary comet, similar to but even larger than the Tunguska event of 1908 in Siberia.

    Sediments from six sites across North America—Murray Springs, Ariz.; Bull Creek, Okla.; Gainey, Mich.; Topper, S.C.; Lake Hind, Manitoba; and Chobot, Alberta—yielded such teensy diamonds, which only occur in sediment exposed to extreme temperatures and pressures, such as those from an explosion or impact, according to new research published today in Science.

    The discovery lends support to a theory first advanced last year in that some type of cosmic impact or impacts—a fragmented comet bursting in the atmosphere or raining down on the oceans—set off the more than 1,300-year cooling period in the Northern Hemisphere known as the Younger Dryas for the abundance of an alpine flower's pollen found during the interval.

    The cooling period interrupted an extended warming out of an ice age predicted by slight changes in Earth's orbit (known as Milankovitch cycles) that continues today. And it remains an unexplained anomaly in the climate record.

    But a series of cometary fragments exploding over North America might explain a layer of soil immediately prior to the cooling containing unusually high levels of iridium—an element more common in cosmic wanderers like meteoroids than in Earth's crust. Paired with the fact that this layer occurs directly before the extinction of at least 35 genera of large mammals, including mammoths, it is strong circumstantial evidence for a cosmic event.
    Civilization Lost
    Robert R. Cargill, Philip Coppens, Jonathan Young
    History Channel 11 December 2011

    Did People create Underground Cities in advance of Catastrophe

    Quote The Cappadocia region of Turkey was part of the zoroastrian empire, which was persian in nature.
    And it's one of the oldest religious traditions on the face of the Earth.
    The zoroastrian religion an ancient faith based on opposing forces of good and evil is widely believed to have influenced both hinduism and judeo-christianity.
    Founded sometime before the sixth century, its chief God is the creator, Ahura Mazda.
    And in the second chapter of the zoroastrian sacred text, the Vendidad, Ahura Mazda saves mankind from a worldwide environmental disaster much like the story of Noah in the Hebrew testament.
    The great prophet Yima was instructed to build a kind of underground refuge similar to Derinkuyu by the sky God Ahura Mazda.
    According to the sacred texts, Yima built a multilevel underground city to protect a select group of people and animals, not from a flood but from a global ice age.
    The Vendidad calls this "the evil winters.
    " According to many mainstream climatologists, the last ice age peaked around 18,000 years ago and ended around 10,000 b.http://www.springfieldspringfield.co...episode=s02e04

    From Graham Hancock:
    Quote a titanic global cataclysm in the window between 13,000 and 12,000 years ago, around the end of the last Ice Age, that wiped out and destroyed almost all traces of a great global civilization of prehistoric antiquity. I’m already well ahead with the research and I aim to complete writing of the book by December 2014 and to publish in the autumn of 2015.

    Emerging from mainstream science – which has so often ridiculed and dismissed my work – the first piece of evidence that made me realise there was a new story to be told was proof that north America was struck by several pieces of a giant fragmenting comet 12,900 years ago (i.e. 10,900 BC), causing an extinction-level event all around the planet, radically changing global climate and initiating the sudden and hitherto unexplained thousand-year deep-freeze right at the end of the Ice Age that geologists call the Younger Dryas.

    The second early clue was the discovery in Turkey of an extraordinary 12,000-year old megalithic site called Gobekli Tepe, which is on the scale of Stonehenge but 7,000 years older than any of the other great stone circles known to history anywhere else in the world. Furthermore the best megalithic work at Gobekli Tepi is the oldest and the site was deliberately buried 10,000 years ago only to be rediscoveredhttps://www.facebook.com/Author.Grah...51506710212354
    Coast To Coast Graham Hancock Interview -12,800 yrs ago comet hit polar icecap and wiped out advanced civilization

    North American Comet Catastrophe 10,900 BC Part 1
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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Atlantis has always intrigued me especially from a geological perspective. The Atlantis area marked in red on the map you attached is adjacent to the mid-Atlantic ridge. I think the Azores are volcanic islands, possibly similar to the Hawaiian islands i.e. hot-spot orogenesis. Maybe a supervolcanic eruption led to the demise of an Atlantean island, similar to Iceland, which is a hotspot on top of the mid-atlantic ridge??? Just throwing out some other possibilities. A volcanic winter would ensue.

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by seeker/reader (here)
    Atlantis has always intrigued me especially from a geological perspective. The Atlantis area marked in red on the map you attached is adjacent to the mid-Atlantic ridge. I think the Azores are volcanic islands, possibly similar to the Hawaiian islands i.e. hot-spot orogenesis. Maybe a supervolcanic eruption led to the demise of an Atlantean island, similar to Iceland, which is a hotspot on top of the mid-atlantic ridge??? Just throwing out some other possibilities. A volcanic winter would ensue.
    Andrew Collins talks about the Azores?Atlantis? theory here. Atlantis in the MidAtlantic
    IMO if the area is so volcanically active, it could have been part of Atlantis AND changing drastically with landmass appearing and disappearing?

    I just want to add one one more link about a coastal Brazilian discovery of granite underwater.

    Quote A large mass of granite has been found on the seabed off the coast of Rio de Janeiro, suggesting a continent may have existed in the Atlantic Ocean, the Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology and the Brazilian government announced.

    A Brazilian official said the discovery of the granite — which normally forms only on dry land — is strong evidence that a continent used to exist in the area where the legendary island of Atlantis, mentioned in antiquity by Plato in his philosophical dialogues, was supposedly located. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.U6iNyLHLLge

    Just for orientation for people like me who are geographically dense:

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    In Professor Doctor Lana Cantrel's book, "The Greatest Story Never Told" she said over her years of research, the Veda, Sumerian and Egyptian texts all say a "Ray War Weapon" was used and it drove people insane, and destabilized the DNA to where sterilization among the Gods was present. So they mated w/humans after the Wars they faught to reproduce in hopes of having a heir that wasn't deformed or crazy. It took thousands of years, but they finally succeeded and Adam was created. Before that, they incested. Probably why some of them went "off" upstairs. Also there was lots of CO2 in the atmosphere which brought on still borns and problems at birth. One of the weapons was used by Indra, whom the Veda text speak of, so this researcher who is more educated than Carl Sagan and the Saganite droids, is laying it out, the way it really was and the comparisons to now are astounding.

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    another perspective: Graham Hancock states ancient Atlantis might've been present Antarctica but located 2500 miles farther north back then than its present location-


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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    another perspective: Graham Hancock states ancient Atlantis might've been present Antarctica but located 2500 miles farther north back then than its present location-

    That a high civilization was located in Antarctica makes sense. But which civilizatoin and when? it is very possible that many high civilizations have passed along the very ancient timeline of earth?

    On Graham Hancock's website, I found support that Atlantis was a maritime civilization of seaports on shorelines and islands. It could be that Atlantis was not a particular place but interconnected world wide cultures? Maybe it's whole scope was known as "Atlantis"?

    Quote As far back as the seventeenth century, the rector of Uppsala University in Sweden, pointed out that nesos, the word used by Plato that was then subsequently translated as island, had in fact normally been used by the ancient Greeks to describe any of three completely different situations. Yes it could mean island, but it was also used to describe the entrance to an estuary with mud shoals. Crucially, the third meaning was a peninsula and during the last few decades many researchers have agreed with that. Even the standard Greek Lexicon includes an addendum confirming this. One example that verifies it is the Peloponnisos Peninsular at the bottom of Greece. The name derives from an amalgamation of “Pelops”, who was the Greek hero who originally conquered it, and “nesos”, giving the original Greek name of “Peloponnesos”. Others have pointed out that the Greeks also used nesos to denote a country or area, such as “Nesos Mesopotamia” and “Nesos Arabia”.

    Maybe just as important, Plato obtained his information third-hand from a learned Egyptian priest who had sourced it from a temple. It had been inscribed there much earlier. Experts have also pointed out that the symbol the ancient Egyptians used to denote an island was also used to mean a sandy shore, a coast, or even a foreign country. It must be doubtful if the priest could have known which was originally intended, but the information in the Temple did make it clear that Atlantis started immediately outside the Mediterranean. Plato explains this as the area outside the Pillars of Hercules, the Greek name for the Straits of Gibraltar.
    Atlantis homeland.....

    ......My theory is that the greater part of Atlantis, the huge southern plain described by Plato, now forms the seabed to the south of the coast in front of south-west Iberia and to the north of Morocco. Logic suggests that from early in the civilisation´s existence, North Morocco and the submerged area in front of it would have inevitably been annexed by the Atlanteans. At that time it would all have been very fertile and the narrow strait separating it from Gibraltar and Spain would have extended much further into the Atlantic and probably been even narrower than today. (See map)

    It is clear from the bathymetric chart of the sea-floor that the area in front of the Algarve was once a large plain. It slopes very gradually, only a few metres or so per kilometre, but it is broken into three successive areas by what would appear to be ancient cliffs where the levels suddenly plunge by significant amounts. These sharp differences in levels could have been caused by combination of land suddenly sinking due to seismic events and the rise in sea-levels caused by the melting of ice-age glaciers. I know of at least one site of unidentified ruins which were exposed on the sea-floor when the ocean withdrew immediately before the tsunami of 1755 struck. Ancient river-beds are also clearly visible on the chart where many of the current rivers once extended as far as the extremity of the submerged plain, evidence that the whole area was once above water.

    All of Plato´s other clues about climate, water, vegetation and crops identically match this region. Just one example, but a significant one, is that about the Atlantis countryside producing “a good store of chestnuts”. This rules out any tropical zone such as off the coast of central Africa, whereas South West Iberia has a bountiful crop every year.

    Plato also wrote that Atlantis had a range of mountains immediately north of the great plain and the capital city. He indicates these mountains survived the disaster, although greatly diminished in size and number. They still exist today, starting inland immediately behind the remaining narrow coastal plain in the Algarve and extending eastwards across into Spain. After identifying that the region must be the Atlantis that Plato described, I searched the remaining countryside for any indications of sites of inland cities. Against all odds I found the actual site of the famous small capital that was described by Plato with such a surprising amount of very specific detail it is as though he wanted to make sure it could be identified. This site matches so many of those elements it is surely globally unique and quite beyond coincidence.http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/DaughtreyP1.php

    Going back to this map,

    The location of Spain, Portugal, Morroco and Turkey now would easily have been within the sphere of the Atlantic based Atlantean sea faring Empire? Gobekli tepe is game changer and will shed light on the relationships and connected culture that could have been Atlantis IMO.

    In my imaginings as to the North and south American continents, I see deep mysterious places in the vast heart of plains, forests and jungle snaked with rivers and mostly unmapped...more primitive indigenous tribes like the Clovis people, the underground Ant people and giants might be found. There were mammoths and saber toothed tigers. Perhaps the remnants of the dinosaurs like giant pterodactyls and dragons scored the skies?

    I am imagining the "civilization" of Atlantis as travelers, traders, (masons? and hydraulics engineers?) practical scientists. The ice age would have found the oceans tempering cold climates. The area I consider possible for a more recent high civilization is close to the equator and warmed by currents. Possibly the Volcanic Azores were home places and the tapping of geothemic energy logical there? What manner of life would be appropriate in the time of the ice age whose height was 18,000 years ago?

    There are many connections between south America and Turkey revealed by Gobekli Tepe. The dating of Gobekli Tepe is important. Graham Hancock is adament that the dates of megalithic sites will be pushed back.

    Quote Carbonized plant remains have been scarce at Göbekli, thus limiting the possibilities for dating charcoal. Nevertheless three charcoal samples (Figure 2) are available for Enclosure A. The two samples Hd-20025 and Hd-20036 are derived from short-lived plants (pistacia sp. / amygdalus sp.) from the filling of Enclosure A (Kromer and Schmidt 1998). Both date to the late 10th / earliest 9th millennium. This fixes the filling material of Enclosure A firmly in the PPNA, though, as was explained above, the possibility of older material used for burying the structure can not be completely excluded. A third charcoal sample (KIA-28407) was found in Enclosure A under a fallen fragment of a pillar: it dates the final refilling of the enclosure to approximately the middle of the 9th millennium. http://www.exoriente.org/associated_..._site.php?s=25
    Göbekli Tepe, Turkey, with Graham Hancock, Andrew Collins & Hugh Newman

    Similarities connect Gobekli Tepe and Peru's megalthic architecture, art and symbols?

    Quote It's a very childlike style, that does not seem to follow any particular plan, but it was a popular technique favoured by the ancient megalith builders. This begs the question, was there a global megalithic stonemason elite in prehistory? Did they diffuse this influence around the world and construct specific sites? http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/NewmanH2.php

    Last edited by Delight; 23rd June 2014 at 23:23.

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Antecedent to Atlantis there were other high cultural epochs. The Bock saga relates a back story for Atlantis. It also relates who may have been the blond and red haired teachers who appeared and helped mankind in various parts of the world after the flood.

    Quote Ior Bock was a most controversial character and he was murdered in late 2010 by some young men who worked for him. People might want to dismiss his "history" and "Misstory" as too far out, too much to consider. However, the SA GA he tells is compelling story. Despite the way it might offend modern sensibilities, it actually makes some eugenic sense. Especially challenging are the hygeine practices and social structure that is suggested to maintain the health of Pi Pol (people).

    According to Ior Bock, he recalled the lineage of Earth millions of years ago. It all started at the North Pole....

    Quote At her funeral on 23 June 1984, Ior claimed that his mother Rhea (Boxström-Svedlin) had left him a very specific duty, confirmed in her will, to bring their ancient and unknown family-saga to the attention of professional historians as well as the public. The first recordings were done in Swedish in 1984 and 1985 at The Archive of Folklore in Helsinki. Later he gave further outlines and specifics in numerous tapes and in 1996 the Finnish writer Juha Javanainen collected some basic extracts in the book Bockin Perheen Saga (Helsinki, 1996).

    In his saga Ior Bock employs a distinct etymology, based on the letters of the Scandinavian alphabets (Swedish and Finnish language). To support his (allegedly) historical saga he related it to old Scandinavian folklore, describing a nucleus that is supposed to be the origin of both the Scandinavian and the Finnish cultures.

    The saga describes a detailed sound-system, built on the sounds of the Scandinavian alphabet. Based on this phonology the saga explains an extensive mythology and a chronological, stringent history. The "historical outline" covers a number of topics; from the origin of man before Ice Age and a global caste-system, to the breakup of this global population due to the appearance of the Ice Age, climatic fluctuations and continental drift.

    The saga explains how this first, tropical culture was divided into ten different kingdoms as life on each continents developed into parallel but different biotops. During the eons of time when ice-time proceeded a small group of people, the Aser, where caught inside the ice of northern Europe – inside the Baltic Ocean.

    The end of Ice Age broke this isolation and became a "new start" of humanity – since all the various populations could now be reached – and reach each other. Regaining contact with the various tropical kingdoms the Aser were instrumental in spreading a "root-system" of words, to develop a common ground for communication and exchange between the various cultures.

    Since the legendary "deluge" (Younger Dryas) 10.000 years ago the connections rapidly established and similar cultures started on all the different continents, leading to parallel cultures on the respective continents, leading to the ethnicities, constitutions and civilizations we know as Stone Age and Classical Antiquity.[13]

    During these millennia, the Asers were drafting and cultivating their inter-continental connections, enhancing the exchange of knowledge, skills and produce world-wide. The purpose was to produce common features and grounds for language and culture, through the exchange of procreators, skills, crafts, arts and architecture.

    Their method was co-operation between parallel constitutions of royals, nobilities and laymen. According to the saga the Eurasian monarchies were established shortly after the Ice Age. From the one arctic group of people that survived Ice Age, called "Aser", only three families were first made to explore the Eurasian north – and leave offspring in their respective regions; east, west and south of the Baltic Ocean.

    These off-springs became the core-families of three major kingdoms, who managed to grow into the societies that managed to populate western, central and eastern Europe. Within the open lands of northern Eurasia, the royals were producing 'houses' of nobility to inhabit and populate the various regions and there found a third cast of offspring, called Earls, to produce structured societies within their respective shires and villages.

    The Bock saga explains that the historical kingdoms of Eurasia descended from the three kingdoms found by the Aser already during early Stone Age. Similar constitutions is claimed to have existed already in the southern hemisphere, on all other continents. Since the ancestry of all these tropical and arctic royals would lead back to a common source, the word "All-father" was recognized by them all as a common origin of all human beings.

    Thus the renewed contact and resurrection of common roots and goals resulted in a positive contact and exchange, producing a world-wide net of genetic and academic exchange – leading to the innovations, produce and trade of agriculture, metals and alloys that led to advanced arts, tools, craft and technology.

    A major theme in the poetry and prose of the Bock saga is the exposure of the ancient fertility-cultures of antiquity, whose legal traditions – based on inheritance – where contradictory to the interest of foreign invaders and illegal regimes. Consequently, to handle an occupied population, the religions of the Middle Ages exercised an absolute repression of all the old fertility rituals, since they required and recreated the memory of the old codexes.

    Consequently the heathen traditions of sexual visibility and identification was massively condemned and sanctioned with the most severe of punishments. One such heathen tradition was that of drinking the "divine vine" or the "water of wisdom", which literally refers to the female sap (ejaculate) and the male sperm.

    According to the saga the pagan traditions were based on a naturalistic philosophy, where it was regarded a virtue to "save and not spill ones semen or female ejaculate". This could be done by sharing the liquids in a "69" or by practicing autofellatio – which the family-saga names sauna-solmu. The Finnish expression for this "sacred vines" would be Viisauden Vesi—the water of wisdom, which in other traditions are known under cryptic terms such as "The Water of Life", "The Seeds of Life", "The Nectar of The Gods" or "The Elixir of the Blessed".

    In the early Christian context these classical issues were mis-translated, to "blood" and "flesh", to stigmatize the pagan peoples as wild beasts, vampires and cannibals. Paradoxically the liturgy is still defining "the flesh and blood of Jesus" as our most sacred rite, the communion.



    Over 50 million years ago, the ancient ones saw that there was a change taking place on our planet. Most scientific studies indicate that the Ice Age began 65 million years ago but this time line is based on scientific techniques that may be flawed.

    According to the Sa-Ga, the first major changes occurred just over 50 million years ago resulting in a shifting of the Pole causing all the lands to become ice. This was known as the time of "all the lands ice" - ALTLANDIS (note spelling) - otherwise known as Atlantis. Atlantis was not so much a location as it was a time in history.

    Anticipating this major change, the Aser set up ten locations around the world so that the Vaner people could survive the ice time. Afterwards, there were ten breeding systems that became ten different races of people with ten different languages, all based on the original Rot / Van languages.

    When the ice came, the Aser were cut off from the Vaner people.

    Largely due to a warm Gulf Stream current flowing into the Finnish Gulf, the region of Uudenmaa remained icefree.

    AFTER THE ICE - The Great Flood

    According to the Sa-Ga, the second Ragnarök or the second destruction occurred just over 10,000 years ago when the ice began to melt rapidly. Foreseeing what was to come, the Aser built boats to accommodate animals, food, people and other supplies and sailed to higher islands. From this small group of artic human beings we know that they called their hide out in Gotland the "new yard" ("Noa-tun"): the origin of the story of Noah’s Ark.

    At this time the temple was closed and Hel was covered in ice. The surviving Aser returned to Hel just over 9,000 years ago when the waters receded. Hel became known as Hel-sing-ki, Helsinki in Finland and the original sound / breeding system was reestablished.


    Through history, the intent of most teachers has been to elevate the human spirit and goodness (God-ness) within the human condition. However, in many cases, older teachings were changed and altered by some teachers, with certain vested interests, in order to wield power and domination over others.

    Many Aser teachers are recorded in the Bock Sa-Ga. These teachers were sent out to reconnect the Vaner people to their heritage and to Oden. Many were sent all over the world. In a number of ancient locations, records, carvings and other monuments attest to the arrival of a Caucasian people that were very tall, blond or red hair with beards. These people came in boats without oars or paddles and were regarded as Gods among men. It was also recorded that these people came from the north, from the seat of power; their knowledge of all things was complete.

    Some of these Aser teachers were recorded in well known history. Yet, as previously stated, their teachings were significantly altered over the course of time to suit the purposes of an elect few. These teachers were male and female, as the people needed both to create the his-story (history) and the miss-story (mystery).

    Within the Sa-Ga, the names of the family of Aser are well known. They include Mohamed, Jesus, Buddah, Krishna and Moses (Muses) which is feminine.

    Over 10,000 years ago it became apparent that human genetics was changing. Even though efforts were made to reconnect the Vaner peoples, it was foreseen that not until the later part of the 20th century would the human condition evolve enough to once more assimilate the information contained in the Sa-Ga! Thus, it was determined to wait until 1984 before bringing the Sa-Ga to light - for at this time there would finally exist the possibility that man and woman could conceive a child that was both inwardly and outwardly whole.

    It is relevant to note that in the last fifteen or so years, around the globe, there are children being born that have three strands of DNA. These children are highly gifted and have abilities far beyond what is considered normal for most people. The psychic powers of these children enable them to even be aware of and communicate telepathically with other children around the world who are likewise gifted.
    Quote Ior Bock says that originally Pi Pol were brown skinned and that the white skin and light eyes of those sequestered at the North Pole developed later. This is important to note. the migration was first North to escape catyclysm and then return. It might be a way to avoid considering the Bock Saga as promoting "white" rascism?

    I found some more useful information here concerning the connection to Alt Land is


    Here is a brief review of the saga's statement of human chronology:

    Quote According to the Bock saga the origin of Mankind was evolving from the first family of Man, - from where all human beings descend. This happened during a period refered to as Paradise-time, when the Planet was perpendicular to the sun and the whole ball was tropical/subtropical.

    As the population grew, the first family made a organisation to govern the growing family; where the first son became the (nature-chosen) King, his 10 brothers became the Kings Council, - and the 12th brother became the new breeder of the family.

    Thus we got the first King of the planet. Now his 12th brother started to breed more than 12 sons/daughters; establishing offspring (called rabis) who went out to start new families and populations around the the first Ringland, called Oden - or "Eden"/"Edon".

    As the Rabis established new ringlands, these where populated and governed by their very sons and daughters, who in turn also got children, who also had the right to make children. Thus the King on top of the globe enlarged the Kingdom of Man, through the "Houses" of his Sons, who in turn created Earls with their Manors - where he created the Sirs (Serfs) who went to build and populate each Yard. The serfs sons though were not to perpetuate the "Seed of Life", creating a uncontrolable number of new people.

    Consequently we had a five-step pyramidal structure - in which the King is related to each and everyone in the Kingdom - through his sons, grandsons, and grand-grandsons. Thus, - from a certain point of view he became a forefather to all inhabitants. And as he descended in a straight line from the very first man and woman this "Pater Familias" was commonly known as "Allfader" - "Father-of-All".

    (Today that still remains in the antique stories of "The Good/God Al-migthy", while "The Lord" actually used to refer to the Landlords, i.e. the Earls and the Rabis. "All-a" though, is seemingly clear.)

    During Paradise we had a population slowly expanding - balancing against the surrounding nature, finding harmony with the universal forces. But - after a very long time some men and women got sloppy and ultimately altered the focus; away from "the good" to the indifferent, disobedient or the outright promiscuous.

    As "Man turned his face away from the Good Father" Paradise-time started to cease. It all ended with a cataclysmic finale, as the whole earth got shaken and stirred and by shockwaves, - as from an Asteroid. From the oceans we got tremendous amount of water evaporating - to assemble around the poles, where it condensed during a period of only three months; to become two enormous ice-caps, one on each pole.

    As said before, - within the ice-cap in the north there was a constant rift, that didn`t freeze up, - because of a stream of hot ocean-water, arriving from the cooking-pot of the Mexican Gulf (where the earth's skin is at its thinnest) towards the east along the rotation of the globe itself, - to be pressed northwards by the deep-ocean polar-currents, - arriving with water still hot - at the Finnish Bay (where the earths "skin" is at its thickest, i.e. oldest).

    Inside this rift and "pocket" of the global ice-cap there was a few of the old royals surviving - even being able to recreate and regenerate themselves - becoming more and more fit to live in an arctic surrounding.

    When this eonic period ended - the palewhite arcticals began to re-create contact with their southern fellow beings - who had kept their basic structure as 10 Kingdoms around in the tropical world. As the arcticals arrived they managed to reconnect to all kingdoms, reflecting on the different languages - recreating basic words from sounds familiar to all men.

    With the arrival of the arcticals in the tropics, the history of the Alt-land-is was fresh on the streets, aprox. 9.500 years ago. But today we can only see the fragments of this news, - as the true stories about us have been violated, altered, twisted, surpressed, falsified and basically forgotten. But still, - around the globe we may find parts or fragments reflecting these most dramatic periods in the history of Mankind.http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb...ML/001044.html
    The dating of human habitation is becoming more distant

    Quote .....archaeologists and population geneticists believe they are on the verge of retrieving a record of human history stretching back almost 50,000 years.

    The record, built on a synthesis of archaeological and genetic data, would be a bare bones kind of history without individual names or deeds. But it could create a chronicle of events, however sketchy, between the dawn of the human species at least 50,000 years ago and the beginning of recorded history in 3,500 B.C. The events would be the dated migrations of people from one region to another, linked with the archaeological cultures and perhaps with development of the world's major language groups.
    The Bock Saga says that people migrated from Africa at a time of great catyclysms.

    Quote The 40,000-year date "marks a turning point in the history of human evolution in Europe," says Svendsen's team. Around that time, roaming Neanderthals are thought to have given way to anatomically modern humans migrating northwards out of Africa and into Europe. The new haul does not reveal the identity of the Arctic dwellers to be either Neanderthal or modern.
    Either way the result is exciting, says archaeologist John Gowlett of the University of Liverpool, UK. Either Neanderthals travelled further north than was thought, or modern humans moved and adjusted to northern extremes very quickly - within a few thousand years of leaving hotter climes.http://www.nature.com/news/1998/0109...010906-11.html
    Quote "Reminiscent of Timaeus, the Younger Edda legend tells of an ancient Swedish king named Gylfe, who journeys to Asgard, where he assumes the name Ganglere (the wanderer). There he beholds a land of temples, golden palaces, and plowed fields populated by a mighty and noble race called the Asas. Just as the Egyptian priests relate to Solon, king of Athens, the tale of Atlantis and of the great flood that befell his ancestors, the Asas tell Ganglere the tale of Ragnarok. Asas comes from Norse word Aas, which means a “ridge of high land”. Hence the Asas, like the Atlanteans, would appear to be a fictitious race that once dwelt high up on the ice sheet’s glistening, paradise of ice."
    From "Earth Under Fire" by Paul LaViolette
    I am connecting a thread to read more about the Bock Sa-Ga

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    More support for a maritime base to Atlantis here:

    Quote Atlantis in America: Navigators of the Ancient World (l)
    Published June 2, 2010

    Atlantis in America: Navigators of the Ancient World [244] by Ivar Zapp & George Erikson, was initially inspired by Professor Zapp’s interest in the stone spheres of Costa Rica, which he first encountered in 1979. Local myth hinted at a connection with the stars but Zapp’s perusal of this idea led nowhere. Unfortunately, many of these remarkable stones have been moved from their original locations. However, Zapp discovered that the sightlines of all the stones remaining in their original positions, did point to important ancient sites such as Giza, Stonehenge and Easter Island. It would be prudent to treat Zapp’s claims with caution as his claim regarding the ‘perfect’ sphericity of the balls has been shown to be untrue(b)(c). The authors examine the links between MesoAmerica and the Mediterranean as well as with Polynesia. They perceive America as having been pivotal to the cultural empire of Atlantis. The general idea there was ancient links between the Old and New worlds in ancient times is perfectly tenable. However, to suggest that Plato was referring to an Atlantis centred in Mesoamerica is more difficult to accept. Zapp & Erikson have proposed that an asteroidal impact in the Caribbean in 10513 BC generated enormous tidal waves that caused widespread devastation in Central America where they have located Atlantis. Plato tells us that Atlantis ruled the western Mediterranean, before mounting an invasion in the east against the Athenians. The only physical evidence of ancient American influence anywhere in the Mediterranean, are traces of cocaine and tobacco in ancient Egypt. This widely reported discovery may have its significance weakend by the conclusions of article published in the April/May 1949 edition of Egerton Sykes’ Atlantis Research magazine entitled Did Tobacco Originate In Africa?, by M. Brenda Francklyn. In it the author quotes from an earlier book, The Ivory Coast, which recounts a myth from West Africa that suggests that the tobacco plant originated there and was in fact exported to the Americas. However, in the western Mediterranean, an area controlled by Atlantis, no tangible evidence of an ancient American importation has been found. Furthermore, there is nothing in the detailed description of Atlantis given by Plato that can be identified as exclusively American in origin. In the opinion of this reviewer, the case for any American connection with Atlantis is still very much an open question. Although this book presents a lot of interesting and thought-provoking ideas it must be read without the abandonment of the readers’ critical faculties. In 2006, National Geographic in a documentary entitled “Atlantis: Is it Real?” gave further exposure to the theories of Erikson & Zapp.
    - See more at: http://atlantipedia.ie/samples/atlan....gRryICa3.dpuf
    Quote Zapp and Erikson, who have clearly done their homework on the subject. Not only have they carefully researched the history, presuppositions, and current trends in the archaeology of the Americas, but they also bring original discoveries to back up their scholarship.

    Their thesis is that Atlantis was located in the Americas, specifically, around Central America. Their "Atlantis in the Americas" theory is based not only on the highly developed architecture of the Aztecs, Maya, Inca and other ancient cultures of the Americas, but also on evidence of an ancient, sophisticated maritime civilization.

    As one of the proofs that Central America was once the seat of an ancient maritime culture, Zapp offers the discovery of hundreds of stone spheres in the Diquis Delta region of Costa Rica that he believes were once part of an elaborate navigational "school".

    In this school, Zapp theorizes, sailors were taught how to determine their location on the sea based upon the relative locations of the sun, moon and stars. The spheres, he found, were precisely machined to within a thousandth of an inch of perfect sphericity, measured up to nine feet in diameter and weighed as much as 20 tons, which is unusual in and of itself.

    However, after closer examination, Zapp found that the spheres, that were typically arranged in sets of three, were so aligned as to point at various other megalithic sites around the world including the Pillars of Hercules, the Pyramids, Stonehenge, and Easter Island, among others. Some were also aligned perfectly north and south, and altogether, it became clear after some research, these stones could be used as a navigation teaching aid even today.

    Zapp and Erikson decided to study the history of the area more carefully and see if these ancient Americans had any substantial knowledge of sailing. In fact, they had mastered the use of light, sturdy balsa rafts, that they could (and did) use to travel long distances.

    Much of this knowledge, however, and a lot more, was suppressed or destroyed by the Catholic church after the Conquistadores conquered Central America, but enough still survives for us to learn that the native inhabitants of the area were in fact highly sophisticated astronomers, mathematicians, architects, sailors, and theologians, among other things.

    Their theological beliefs, of course, posed a threat to the Catholic church, whose understanding of science at the time was actually inferior to that of the Aztecs. Therefore, in their eyes, destruction of Central American history, culture, and sciences became an imperative.

    Not satisfied with displaying a mastery of American archaeology, Zapp and Erikson then go on to display a mastery of astronomy, history and anthropology to build a case for Atlantis in the Americas. Though it much more likely that Atlantis was actually what is now known as the Azores, Zapp and Erikson still argue very convincingly their case for an Atlantis centered somewhere in or around Central America.

    Their case is particularly strong because, as Edgar Cayce believed, the Caribbean and Central America were actually once part of Atlantis. However, Cayce also believed that these areas were actually westernmost islands and provinces of Atlantis, and not the continent of Atlantis itself, which he, like Plato, located in the Atlantic.

    Central America and the Caribbean also do not fit some of the criteria set forth by Plato, including the fact that they are not located in front of the Pillars of Hercules, they are not a large island the size of Libya and Asia, and they did not sink beneath the waves, though parts of them may have since the end of the last Ice Age.

    However, that area is definitely one of the areas that the Atlanteans fled to after their islands began to sink, so the argument that these structures were Atlantean in origin is probably correct. It would be more accurate to say not that Atlantis was centered in Central America, but that Central America was part of the Atlantean culture, most likely one of its largest and most important provinces.

    Plato and Cayce both said that the main island was in the Atlantic, but that the Atlanteans held sway over many lands to the west of that island, which obviously points to central America and the Caribbean.

    Actually much more interesting than the Atlantis theory itself, however, is the wealth of information about the ancient Americas that the authors bring together in a well-organized fashion. Fans of ancient history, archaeology, mythology, anthropology, and related types of information about the Americas will be well rewarded by a thorough read of this excellent book. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ar...ostarica02.htm
    Quote Jerry interviews anthropologist and author, George Erikson. George's new book and his theories on the demise of the Atlantean Civilization, some 11,000 years ago, and the mythology and cultural legacies that were left in the aftermath of a series of catastrophes, which included massive rises in sea levels of over 300 feet and giant tsunamis that marked the end of the last Ice Age. George's research, along with that of Professor Ivar Zapp of the University of Costa Rica, seem to finally have uncovered conclusive evidence that Atlantis actually existed and is the basis for much of mankind's post flood and current civilizations. Will the cycle of destruction return again in 2012 and result in the end of our civilization? Listen to this provocative but intelligent discussion.access interview here

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    The plejaren say , 15,000 years ago people from a time shifted area of Beta-Centauri came back to earth and built atlantis , under the leadership of Atlant and his wife ... they and the people of Lemuria were constantly attacked by Hyperborea , until the scientist of Hyperborea went into space and captured an asteroid and flung it right down on atlantis and sank it , huge pieces also hit lemuria and destroyed it , some of the people of Lemuria escaped to an underground city ( the blue people ) that now live in the area of India and are still there under the Himalaya mountains ... all of these groups originally came from Lyra 386,000 years ago first arriving on mars , then on to earth and the planet Malona and are our distant ancestors ... We are one lineage and the plejaren are the other , we share a common ancestory with them , for some of their people are the sons of heaven who returned to the homeworld 2,000 years ago ... a monitoring group has been watching us , and they left the earth for good in 1995 and closed their bases in this sol system , four bases on earth , the moon , and the moons of Saturn ... they say their ancestors of atlantis built a ray sword that was given to Merlin by his ET girlfriend ..., also atlantis was responsible for the creation of titans , Cyclops , mermaids , unicorns , by mixing the DNA of humans and animals and themselves ... the human race is a mixture of Lyrians with genetic modifications , a completely new species with a short life span as they live 1,000 years we only 80-100 years ... atlantis was located in the west and lemuria in the east , the earth's land mass was different then , florida was in the greenland area back then before the pole shift ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    What was the language of Atlantis? I think it will be a world wide script and from what I have learned, it could well be traced back to the North pole?

    Quote "Finding Atlantis", is the story of Olof Rudbeck, a true genius of Sweden who lived in the 1600s who spent the last 30 years of his life compiling and publishing ATLANTICA, a 2500 page tome on the origin of Atlantis. His life story is now for the first time in English.

    Rudbeck shows how the caduceus, encircled with 2 intertwined snakes, which are a common symbol in the north, is actually a code device, a perfect microcosm of the runes. King says:

    "In fact, on examination, each letter of the runic alphabet could actually be seen encoded in the god's emblem. If one relied on various angles formed by the snakes around the staff, every single rune could indeed be crafted."

    "Affixing numbers to various points on the staff and the snakes, Rudbeck provided directions for marking the runes by using Mercury/Hermes' caduceus."

    "What a device for encoding the letters, and for transmitting the knowledge! Rudbeck's discovery looks even more exciting when it is remembered that Hermes was, according to traditional accounts of classical mythology, the god who brought the alphabet to many places in antiquity, from Egypt to Arabia.

    So Rudbeck concluded that the "god's" staff was the handy means of teaching the art of the runes. And along with these Hyperborean heiroglyphics, the magical, mystical, and secret learning of the north would also be transmitted to the wise men of the Mediterranean."

    "Developing this insight--how, when, where, why, and what it all meant-- was to be one of the central functions of Rudbeck's ATLANTICA."

    Olof Rudbeck c.1679 Finding Atlantis: A True Story of Genius, Madness, and an Extraordinary Quest for a Lost World – David King - PDF, EPUB, FREE DOWNLOAD EBOOK AND AUDIOBOOK

    Quote According to Swedish research the dialects spoken on Gotland and the cost of the Botnic Sea seems to be the oldest of the Scandinanvian dialects.

    The circle of modern letters as refered as "the alphabet" by the Bock-saga, is commonly known - with small differences - in all Scandinavian grammars.

    The coastal population of Finland have traditionally been known to be the easternmost part of Fenno-Scandia, where "Scandinavian" have been spoken. Meanwhile the finno-ugrian have been spoken all over the Finnish inland, as well as in Carelia, western Russia, the Baltic States and south to Hungary.

    In Fenno-Ugrian the Scandinavian dialect of south- and west-coast Finland have been named "root-peopole" ("ruotilainen") and their language "root-speaking" ("ruotkielli").

    The discrepancy of the Finnish words "ruot-kielli" and "ruot-sin-kielli" describes the "root of the coastal Finns" that are TALKING "root", while the people populating the eastern shores of the Botnic Bay are perceived as "SINGING" the very same root-sounds, as they speak.

    Today the word "ruotsinlainen" means nothing but a "Swede" - because they still seem to be "sin" or "singing" the same words as the Finnish coast-people "speak" or "talk". Comparing the tonal chords of these two dialects that discrepancy - between singing and speaking - may perfectly describe the only major difference between the Scandinavian dialects of Finland respectively Sweden.

    If the "Paleolitic Continuation Language Theory" is rigth - the Scandinavian and the Finnish languages have a common origin, too - that once used to be the very original, common root of the European languages. As in "Indo-European" languages, where the "Finno-Ugric" ("Uralic") languages now seems to be included...

    In the plain Urlic dialect - still found in Carelia and Finland - they refer to the Swedish tounge as their "root". In that case we may accept that the Scandinavian tounge is explained - by the Finno-Ugric vocabulary - to be the oldest form of the northern languages.

    The alphabet presented on the former page is explained in its own language - by the words attached to the various letters. These words are given in the "Scandinavian language" - as known in Sweden, Gotland, Åland and the Finnish coast.

    According to the Bock-saga this was the language spoken by a tiny group of ice-time refugees, that survived this eonic period in the heated waters of southern Finland's archipelago.

    It was during this eon of time that the signs of the key-sounds, today called letters, are supposed to have been defined and refined - into the present state of perfection. This period is described by the saga as "Alt-land-is-time" - i.e. "the all-land-ice-time".

    Getting out of the ice-age the arctic population - developed into pale caucasians - started to spread across the northern hemisphere. While they worked har to reconnect to the populations on all corners
    of the globe - tying them together through similar, resonating sounds - paving the way for a reconstruction of a common, international language.

    The saga claims that both the French and the English language were direct results of these efforts. Combining the clarity of the Scandinavian sounds with the magnitude of the latin languages the English language seems to have filled all of the requirements needed of a language that works - in all kinds of international settings.

    Though, the original "root-alphabet" - as spoken even before the biotic refugia of the ice-age, called Altlandis - is still found in the "Scandinavian" or "Swedish" toungue. Of course it's hard for any Dane to accept such historical views, but reading this thread he or she just may have to learn them and even leave with them. Especially when he would have to listen to the further expension of the root-speaking, caucasoind population - that reached southern France via Denmark - as they populated northern Europe.

    Thus the close relationhip between the Glozel letters, the old runes and the ancient signs of letters - found world-wide. The alpe/aleph/alfa-syndrome of the major ancient cultures should be more than enough to incline that we really did have a common origin.

    This origin would have to be closely connected to the caucasian etnicity, as well as the indo-european culture. Considering that the origin of agrculture are linked to the caucasian populations of the north-west rather that the south-east Europe, we may suspect that the area between the Baltic Ocean and the North Sea - called Denmark - once were the axis of the population that spread throughout continental Europe - during mesolithicum....

    In that case the entire legend of AtlantIs would be based on a reality of history - rather than a "myth" or a 'hypothesis'.http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.co...?topic=1191.15
    Quote From a Master's Thesis by Paul Knighton on Alphernas Beten

    http://www.bocksaga.de/description_print.htm (NO LONGER AVAILABLE)
    Divine Generation of Alphabets.c.Divine Generation of Alphabets;

    Difficult as it may be to accept, as the old adage runs, seeing is believing: The geometric pattern known as the Seed of Life, ratcheted out to thirteen circles, forms the basis of the design which the Bock Saga uses, and it does indeed generate letters.

    The Seed of Life and the Flower of Life designs have been found in Egypt, Celtic Ireland, Turkey, Tibet, and Greece. This generation of letters seems like a kind of magic, and belief in such magic, or the divine origin and character of writing, is ubiquitous, in all eras, among civilized as well as among "primitive" people. The Egyptians called Thoth "the scribe of the gods" and taught that he had given them their writing, which they called the "speech of the gods."

    Muslims believe that Allah himself created writing, and the Norse saga attributes the invention of the runes to Odin. Hellen, the founder of the Greeks, according to Cassiodorus, "delivered many things concerning the alphabet, describing its composition and virtues, in an exceedingly subtle narration; insomuch that the great importance of letters may be traced to the very beginning of things."

    The Hindus say that it was Brahma who gave them Sanskrit, which is based on Devanagari, meaning "holy script." [Veta] means to know in Rot, [gana] (naga backwards) is script, the same as Japanese hiragana, so the Vedas are the "knowledge of the Aser."

    The Bock Saga then is not at all unique in its claim to be the original source of language or writing; almost all ancient nations had a tradition that they once possessed sacred writings in a long lost language, the Mayans, Japanese and Runic users amongst them.

    The "urrunen" theory runs parallel to the Saga in that it holds that it is the source of all Mediterranean alphabets, including Phoenician. Studies of the Norse peoples' Runic characters and Celtic symbols have found that the symbols appear to have served sacred and mystical purposes for hundreds of years before there is any evidence of their being used for written language.

    They are said to have magic powers, and this is supported by the linguistic evidence of the Gothic word runa, meaning secrecy, or mystery. Parallel to this is the oral nature of the Saga - remember, only the Bock family was supposedly cognizant of its origins.

    In Hebrew rune means a song, or to sing, and the ancient Jews maintained that their Cabala was revealed by God to Moses and was transmitted verbally, it being too sacred to be written. Similarly the Brahmins are not permitted to recite, but only to sing the Vedas. As magic is simply that which is not understood, comprehension of any process removes its numinosity.

    Could it be that the Bock Saga is a preservation of some form of mathematical or geometrical knowledge that has been lost, but that appeared so spectacular to early mankind that it appeared to be magical?

    Certainly, the many Garden of Eden myths found around the world "see mankind, over recent millennia, as having degenerated from root-races and cultures of great spiritual and technological development, which flowered in the Golden Age of antiquity, and were destroyed to be reborn (perhaps many times) in aeons more distant than the limitations of today's science would have us believe."

    Today, in Japan, there is a Shinto priest called Yoshimi Takeuchi who claims that his family has been the guardian of the Golden Dragon Shrine for over four thousand years. Among the shrine's sacred treasures are various artifacts, allegedly given by the Imperial court, including pottery believed to be 20,000 years old, and documents which he claims: "will prove that the origins of the five races of the world are one and the same."

    Also he says there are stones, the original tablets of Moses' Ten Commandments, which contain ancient Japanese writings remarkable similar to that of Hebrew. In fact, according to Takeuchi, ancient emperors developed over two hundred sets of characters which are said to be the basis for the ancient Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek, Sanskrit and Hebrew languages."
    This is the alpha betan described in the Bock saga

    Compare to an artifact found in Glozel France.

    There has been an ongoing archeological controversy over a trove of artifacts from various eras found in a cache in Glovel France. Included were several tablets. These artifacts relate to other finds in the general area that may have been a possible ancient necropolis.

    Quote In 1927, a subterranean chamber in France was discovered, accidentally, by a cow. Full of mysterious artefacts, some of them Neolithic, the find was an enigma. Was it a mediæval magician’s store, a Templar treasure house or something even more mysterious? Patricia and Lionel Fanthorpe revisit one of their earliest investigations.

    Seventeen-year-old Emile Fradin was helping his grandfather on their family farm at Glozel, near Vichy in the heart of central France, when they stumbled – quite literally – across one of the most bitterly controversial mysteries of the century. It was 1 March 1924 when one of their grazing cattle fell suddenly through the apparently smooth and stable surface of the meadow.

    The ground collapsed under the poor beast, dropping it into a totally unsuspected, artificial chamber or cavity. This strange, man-made chamber was lined with interlocking bricks, some of them glazed as though by intense heat. The room resembled a primitive glassworks, or mediæval kiln. Young Emile rescued the unlucky bovine by passing broad webbing under the cow to lift it. Descending again to explore – without the impediment of sharing the chamber with a frightened cow – he made some extremely exciting discoveries.

    The chamber was full of shelves and niches containing many ancient and unusual objects. There were several carved bones and a number of antlers. There were what appeared to be statuettes of primitive deities – resembling the heavily pregnant Stone Age ‘Venus’ – and, most intriguing of all, there were numerous clay tablets covered with an unknown alphabet. http://www.forteantimes.com/features...el_stones.html

    Quote Some orthodox archæologists were sceptical about Glozel because of the wide time-range of the discoveries. The earliest and latest specimens were separated by as much as 3000–4000 years. What individual, or group, could have collected them there and, above all, why?

    Before the recent development of scientific archæology and palæontology, much uninhibited speculation surrounded ancient flint artefacts, bones and fossils turned up by the plough. Stone Age cemeteries, tombs and monuments were variously attributed to Arthur, Merlin, pagan gods, giants, demons, angels, leprechauns or fairies. Bones of mammoths and dinosaurs were regarded as evidence that the Biblical, antediluvian giants – along with the monstrous Leviathan – had once roamed the Earth. Flint arrowheads were attributed to elven warriors and færie craftsmen.

    Such artefacts were widely prized through the Dark Ages by seers, sorcerers, wizards, warlocks, witches, prophets, shamans and ‘cunning-ones’ – together with supposedly magically knowledgeable priests and exorcists and other ‘wise-people’ of various kinds – in the belief that they had magical properties.

    Stone Age objects were used in the manufacture of protective talismans and medicines. For example, it was widely believed that carrying a flint (‘færie’) arrowhead in a leather pouch prepared with the appropriate herbs and moonlit incantations would protect the bearer from arrow wounds. Similarly, a tiny portion of a ‘giant’s bone’ (perhaps one attributed to David’s Goliath) could be ground up, mixed with oatmeal and fed to an undersized boy to help him grow.

    A mediæval magician or wise-woman would need somewhere safe and secure in which to keep his or her store of magical ingredients and equipment. Suppose such a person discovered the disused glass kiln. Here indeed was a well-hidden underground chamber, already lined with a glass-firer’s shelves and niches, in an ideally remote country area safe from prying eyes – safe, above all, from the Holy Inquisition and their army of secret informers.

    Is it possible that young Fradin rediscovered just such a subterranean magician’s warehouse in 1924 when his grandfather’s cow fell into it?http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...s-2948390.html
    Quote Glozel stones:
    The Dating of Glozel
    Glozel is certainly one of the European sites which has been subjected to the greatest amount of research by highly qualified professionals from the time of its discovery. But the fierceness of the attacks by Glozelts detractors has led to a stalemate in spite of the richness of the results and the successive demonstrations of Glozel's undeniable authenticity.

    In the 1970s a team of scientists (Vagn Mejdahl from Denmark, Hugh McKerrelt from Edinburgh, and Henri François of the Fontenay Atomic Test Centre> became interested in Glozel and used thermoluminescence to test Glozel ceramics.

    Henri François did not hesitate to ask Dr Zimmerman of the University of Washington, who is attached to the McDonnel Center for Space Science, to undertake an investigation, as the one person capable of doing this. The aim was to determine if the Glozel ceramics were indeed authentic and not recently produced ounterfeits.

    Basing his conclusion on a property particular to zircon grains, Dr Zimmerman said: "There is no possibility that these two samples from Glozel are of recent date and artificially irradiated in order to make them appear old. We conclude that they were truly made in antiquity. " This conclusion certainly reinforced observations previously made, including that of the geologist, M. E. Bruet, who in 1928 concluded that the tablets with inscriptions must have been fired at a temperature of between 600 and 700 degrees.

    The Glozel artifacts, which currently number some 2,500 pieces, were found in a single, well defined archaeological layer. This layer was described as being from the Neolithic by Dean Charles Depéret5. The recent international congress on Carbon-14 dating and archaeology, held in Lyon in 1998, noted that the Neolithic existed in Europe in the last centuries of the seventh millenium and was widespread by the first haîf of the sixth millenium.

    The "Champ des Morts" was the subject in 1974 of an investigation using a proton magnetometer undertaken by Mrs Lemercier of the Center for Nuclear Studies in Grenoble. This confirmed the results of Dr Antonin Morlet who excavated this site with Mr. Fradin for more than 15 years. He left numerous places untouched 50 that future generations either by new excavations or new technical approaches could add to the information already avaîlable. Comparison of the results of an aerial survey with those of Mrs. Lemercier reveals traces of intact structures at the level of the "Champ des Morts' and also in nearby areas, above and to the left of the area when coming from the museum.
    Information concerning the artifacts found at Glozel


    Then we have South American writing seen on artifacts like those of Father Crespi

    Finally here is a comparison of scripts

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    I'm midway through Michael Tsarion's book, Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation , so I love the timing of this thread! Here's some video to add to the mix:

    Michael Tsarion - Origins & Oracles - Atlantis, Alien Visitation & Genetic Manipulation

    Michael Tsarion: The Destruction of Atlantis

    Qui tacet consentit

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    another perspective: Graham Hancock states ancient Atlantis might've been present Antarctica but located 2500 miles farther north back then than its present location-

    I had not seen this older interview and wanted to share Graham Hancock again in case others had missed this....

    Quote original uncut interview featuring Graham Hancock, was filmed for the Network Television Special "The Mysterious Origins of Man." Most of this interview was not included in the final Television Network Broadcast and is being shown here now in it's entirety for the first time. Graham Hancock is the celebrated author of the groundbreaking book "The Fingerprints of the Gods." This interview includes amazing conclusions about the lost great civilization of Atlantis, a technologically advanced civilization that was able to circumnavigate the Earth and map the stars.http://www.UFOTV.com.

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    The long time periods and the destruction of historic records make the mystery tantalizing and impossible to pin down. IMO it still makes sense that civilization in the ice age would have hugged the coasts and that travel by ocean and advanced navigation were key elements to the Atlantis I imagine. But there were most likely stages or phases and I think we will need to piece together similarities in style and myth and accept we may never know the whole story?

    Here is an interesting collection of artifacts that share many stylistic similarities and glyphs that are shared by other sources including Glovel AND South America AND Gobekli Tepe.

    The youtube uploaders Diego Marin Autore other video artifact collections are all connected IMO and fascinating. These various caches indicate common themes and source of origin.

    Civiltà dei Feaci - Collezione Tolone -

    Quote Toulon The collection is kept in the house of the Girifalco professor Salvatore Toulon Azzariti, economics teacher in Oxford. Girifalco is at the center of the province of Catanzaro, the narrowest point of the Italian peninsula, the region was first called "Italian" in honor of the famous Italian king. According to the greek myth, the birth of the kingdom of Italo would have preceded the Trojan War sixteen generations, standing more or less in 1550 BC The date in question is compatible with the hypothesis of a noble Hyksos, who fled Egypt during the reconquest of the Pharaoh Kamose.

    Thucydides he referred to the province of Catanzaro, stating that "the region was called Italy by Italo", a name which only later was extended to the whole peninsula. We read in Aristotle: "It became king of Enotria some Italo, from which it would be called, changing name, Itali instead Enotri. Italo They also say that this has transformed the Enotri, who were nomads, farmers, and in which also gave them to other laws, and established the first Syssitia. " According to Strabo, the capital of the kingdom was Oenotrian Pandosia Bruzia, the city founded by Italo which probably corresponds to today's Acre.

    In January 1972 a disastrous atmospheric perturbation of Girifalco struck the area for several days. The lawyer Mario Toulon Azzariti (father of Salvatore) was commissioned to carry out a technical inspection in areas affected by torrential rain: during the inspection, as well as damage caused by bad weather, he noticed the presence of a cleft in the rock of almost 6 meters, which showed a massive stone covered in mud. It was a face staring traits, whose appearance had no connection with the world of Ancient Greece. From then until the early nineties Mario Toulon explored crevices and cavities in the steep walls, digging still below the ridges to review the material slipped over the millennia. In more than twenty years, were recovered over 800 statues and stone tablets of clay or fine workmanship, sprinkled with inscriptions in Iberian language. Officially the oldest examples of writing Iberian have been recognized by Harald Haarmann of the Research Centre on Multilingualism in Brussels: it's engravings dating back to 6000 BC, imprinted in vessels used for worship, ritual objects and figurines of the Vinca culture (the Balkans) . Initially, the writing was intended for the expression of the Iberian language Proto-Basque Cro-Magnon, but seamlessly evolved in the characters Euboian, Phoenicians, Etruscans and venetici, arriving at the threshold of the Roman Empire. And 'therefore difficult to derive the age of the finds on the basis of only the characters. On the other hand, Salvatore Toulon is convinced that his findings belong to the people of the Phaeacians (phaiakes from phalkones, "hawks") and that they should therefore be considered relatively recent (eighth to the sixteenth century BC). In support of his hypothesis, Toulon provides many coincidences place names, first of all Girifalco the same name that is derived from "kurios-phalkos" or the "Lord-hawk" or the "God-hawk."

    Homer wrote that the Phoenicians were the most experienced sailors of ancient times. He said that their boats did not need nor helm nor helmsman, who had intellect and knew the intentions of the men who wore. They knew the routes to the city and countryside, and sailed extremely fast over the waves, covered by fog without the fear of breaking or sinking. But the Phoenicians excelled not only in the nautical arts. Homer described them as experts and skilled in all the arts and civil institutions: we speak of thresholds bronze walls gleaming copper metal cerulean blue friezes, jambs silver, gold rings at the door, pictures of dogs d ' gold and silver on the inputs. They were passionate lovers of dance, music, feasting, of tepid baths and "change his clothes." Their gardens were full of fruits never seen a sweet taste and Feacesi were unmatched in the craft of weaving. The Phaeacians were from the island of Ogygia and blood in their veins was the same Cyclops (the Sicilians). Given that the Sicilians are among the Peoples of the Sea, it follows that the Phaeacians belonged to the same strain. The relationship, however, was not enough to secure peace among neighbors, because their contrasts with the Sicilians the Phaeacians forced to abandon their land and moved in its entirety to the new home of Corcyra (Corfu). To be their guide was Nausitoo, the son of the nymph Calypso who detained Odysseus on Ogygia for ten years. The findings of Toulon certainly belonged to a warrior culture, as is evident from the findings of swords and shields present on the urns. It may well be that the people of the Phoenicians was made up of the Hyksos kings who ruled an indigenous people, probably the Enotri.
    Edgar Cayce was accurate in channeling medical information shown in myriads of readings recorded. His accuracy in one area makes his historic readings which cannot be proved more interesting as possible "facts"?

    The young researchers here state they think the group we think of as Cro Magnon were the people of Atlantis. Atlantis spanned a long time period and did start in the Antarctic in their opinion. They have been criticized for using Edgar Cayce's readings as support to their ideas.

    Quote • Reveals that there was not one but three Atlantises—the first in Antarctica, the second in South America, and the third in the Mediterranean

    • Examines geological evidence of super-floods 15,000, 11,600, and 8,700 years ago

    • Shows how these flood dates directly parallel the freezing of Antarctica, the migrations of Cro-Magnon men, and the destruction of Atlantis according to Plato

    15,000 years ago the Earth’s axis tilted, shifting the geographic poles. Volcanoes erupted, the icecaps melted, and the seas rose dramatically. Antarctica was enveloped in ice, destroying the high civilization of prehistory: Atlantis. But before the survivors could reestablish what they had lost, catastrophe struck again—twice.

    Uniting scientific findings with theories on the location of Atlantis, the authors reveal that there was not one but three Atlantises—the first in Antarctica, the second in South America, and the third in the Mediterranean. Examining paleoclimatology data, they show that Antarctica was temperate 15,000 years ago and home to the original Atlantis. They explore geological evidence of three worldwide super-floods 15,000, 11,600, and 8,700 years ago and show how these dates directly parallel the freezing of Antarctica, the arrival of Cro-Magnon man in Europe, and the destruction of Atlantis according to Plato. Uncovering the influence of the Atlanteans in Proto-Indo-European languages and in massive ancient monuments aligned with the stars, they show how the civilization founders in all early myths—the Pelasgians, Danaans, Viracocha, Aryans, and others—were part of the Atlantean diaspora and how this migration split into two major movements, one to Latin America and the other to Europe and Asia.

    Following the Atlanteans from a warm Antarctica up to Peru, Mexico, and the Mediterranean, they reveal that Cro-Magnon men are the people of Atlantis and that we are just now returning to their advanced levels of science, technology, and spirituality.http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-...=9781591431794
    Quote Interview with Diego Marin

    1. What can you tell us about the Earth’s axis tilting 15,000 years ago?

    I can say that an extraordinary catastrophic event certainly happened 15,000 years ago. The evidence is everywhere: mass extinctions – especially of large mammals -, widespread volcanic activity – dormant volcanoes suddenly lit up simultaneously -, and last, so rapid climate changes that we find the food of that time still intact in the stomachs of the mammoth. I believe that the cause was been a meteorite, more or less as it happened in the age of dinosaurs, only this time a little smaller. In 1974 engineer Flavio Barbiero performed precise calculations that he reported in “A Civilization Under Ice” by which he demonstrated that such a pandemonium could be traced to a meteorite 200 billion tons heavier (about 3.7 km in diameter) which crashed off the coast of what today is Florida. It was not a simple shift of the axis. Actually, the Earth’s axis went from being almost vertical to the orbit (thus eliminating seasons) to being inclined (like today) of about 23°. This, however, was not the only change: even the two points where the Earth’s axis comes out from the earth’s surface had changed. The North Pole and the South Pole were no longer the same; suddenly the axis intercepted different points. Some regions moved to colder latitudes while other regions reached warmer climes. This all happened “in block”, in the sense that there was no significant relative movement of the continents. We can discuss whether such a shift has only concerned the crust (as suggested by Flem-Ath in “Atlantis beneath the ice”) or the whole terrestrial “ball” (as suggested by Barbiero), but there is no doubt that it happened.

    2. Would you go into why you think their are three Atlantises and where they are located?

    I think most of the myths refers to a first, original Atlantis located in Antarctica. Myths tell mostly of an island in the Pole, “where the day and night last for six months” and “where the stars never rise and never set but they make circles in the sky”. This is exactly what happens at the North Pole and at the South Pole of the planet. The choice of Antarctica is constrained as there are signs of a warmer weather before the cataclysm. Conversely, if we look at north, at Greenland, we would find that its temperature 15,000 years ago was even more harsh than the current one. Myths speak of Atlantis as the land of the gods, and even the Bible says that “one day of God amounts to one year of men”. The other two “Atlantises” of which we speak, in the highlands of Bolivia and in Sardinia, concern colonies renamed with the name “Atlantis” by the descendants of those who had left the Antarctic when it was trapped in the cold. In Bolivia and in Sardinia you will come across a stunning array of names of seas, cliffs, headlands and mountain chains assigned by the inhabitants in an ancient time, in relative positions that mirror the ones provided by the myth, especially from the account of Plato. The impression is that the migrants from Atlantis have brought with them the geographical names of their homeland and have transferred them to the new lands in the same sequence. This has regarded, in particular, the area around the capital, a rectangular plain enclosed by a wall of mountains. The Italian Sergio Frau and the English Jim Allen gave each many stringent clues about the presence of Atlantis respectively in Sardinia and in Bolivia. Acknowledging of the seriousness of their studies, noting at the same time their inability to explain the polar conditions, we can only conclude that these “Atlantises” were colonies of the first Atlantis, the one in Antarctica.

    3. How do you think Atlantis was destroyed and why?

    Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, walls of water hundreds of meters high that entered into the continent for hundreds of kilometers. We are talking about sudden movements of the ground which were able to “fossilize” waves of rock hundreds of kilometers long and about ten meters high, still visible today, as the wave “Parvie” of which we speak in the chapter 2 of the book. Simply everything was destroyed and swallowed up by the waters, by the magma and by the cracks in the ground. Only the most far-sighted, those who fled at the first signals survived. In the appendix we report the views of the Edgar Cayce Foundation which on many points are different from ours. They claim that it was a bad use of a form of energy called “prismatic tuning” to trigger the cataclysm of 15,000 years ago. I deeply respect the views of the ECF but, maybe due to my professional formation, I’m more inclined towards the meteorite hypothesis.

    4. Why are the founders of ancient civilizations intertwined with the Atlantis diaspora?

    Virtually every population of the ancient world told about a “golden age” began with the coming of the “gods” from the sea. These gods have taught to read and write, to build, to measure the movements of the stars, to grow plants and breed animals. This could be a sort of shared “dream” explainable by means of psychology, but I do not think so. The descriptions of these gods are virtually identical, either if we speak of Indian gods or if we are talking about American, Egyptian, Nordic or central africa gods. We always read of “beings” from the fair skin, pale, tall, blue eyes and red-blond hair. It is reiterated their ability to “transform” themselves into squamous beings (snakes or sirens), perhaps a distorted memory of some kind of ceremonial dress.
    It is clear that the most ancient civilizations, all of them, have received a common wealth of knowledge from a common source. All had conceived a rather complex model of their cosmos, based first of all on the apparent motion of the Sun. At that time (like today) the apparent path of the Sun on the celestial sphere traced a circle called “ecliptic” which walked across the twelve constellations that compose the “Zodiac”. It was cut into two sectors by an ideal plane passing through the Earth’s equator, at an angle of about 23.5 ° with respect to the apparent solar orbit. The zodiacal belt above the equator was called “dry land”, while the other represented the “lower waters”. At the contact points between the two zones there were two constellations of paramount importance (Aries and Libra) that rose just before the sun at the dawn of the equinoxes. At the center of the zones there were present instead the two constellations deputed to the solstice (Cancer and Capricorn). These constellations, associated to solstices and equinoxes, were called “pillars” and, in particular, the one corresponding to the vernal equinox (Aries) was called “carrier” or “key pillar of heaven”. The four pillars defined the corners of the “square ground”, the ideal plane passing through the four key points of the year. The idea that the expression “quadrangular land” indicated a flat conception of the world is deeply wrong; only during the Middle Ages and in highly religious environments, such symbolic definition had been taken for real. Other keywords were “mill” or “maelstrom” to indicate the Earth’s axis, and “heavenly river” to indicate the Milky Way (a faint whitish bright stripe which crosses the celestial sphere and which identifies the areas with higher density of stars of our galaxy, from which it takes its name). What mattered most was however the zodiacal belt, the so-called “true earth” or “inhabited earth”, in which the motion of the planets was (and is) contained. These were considered gods and the Zodiac offered to them homes, taverns, masks and disguises, which contributed to the birth of the astrological myth in the form of astronomical code. Such a wealth of detail, identical in every culture, it can’t be due to chance. In any case, there is a meticulous study that can’t miss in the library of every lover of mythology. I refer to “Hamlet’s Mill” by Professors Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend. If you still have doubts about the existence of a “common source”, it is through this book that you can heal them.

    5. Would you go into why Cro-Magnum men are the people of Atlantis?

    The identification has been obvious. We face a new human variety that suddenly arrived in Europe 15,000 years ago. We’re talking about a massive influx, which does not exclude the previous presence of sparse individuals. Such men were higher than average, fair-skinned (native Europeans were dark), with light hair and light eyes. The concordance of the dates and physical traits is so stringent that it can’t be otherwise explained.

    6. What else did Plato say about Atlantis? And did any other writers or philosphers write about it?

    Unfortunately, the story told by Plato is inconclusive. It is truncated abruptly at the point where Zeus, angered by the aggressive behavior of the Atlanteans, is about to hurl on them a terrible curse. Plato provides us especially with geographical references, and with a city planning description of the capital in which among other things we perceived the graft of models from the classical Greece, probably used by Plato to fill his gaps. Other tales, Greek and non, describe the establishment of a new Atlantean empire in the lands colonized by fugitives. There is talk of a struggle for succession between two brothers, the creation of two distinct empires and a war that ended with their unification. However I think the most important detail concerns the sudden arrival in Atlantis – until then a mild climate and fertile land – of an eternal winter which trapped the island in the darkness and in ice. This coincides exactly with the climatic data in our possession.

    Continued here...http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/...SplittedPage=0
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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Great thread Delight, this is one of the subjects that have always fascinated me,
    from a young age at school when I came home and watched Arthur C Carks
    Mysterious world, Jacque Cousteau, Horizon and later Graham Hancocks
    two series and any other documentary on TV back then.....LOL

    I have put up several threads about this and am sure we are much older
    than we have been led to believe, and with Go Beki Tepi and other finds
    of the last few decades even mainstream archeologists who thought
    Graham and others were romantic myth dreamers are having to rethink
    their views. Though I cannot see the likes of David Starkey changing
    their academic reputations and Time Team that I enjoy will have to
    dig a bit deeper...LOL


    What has changed in the last few years is satallite archaeology which is an exciting
    prospect as long as this is done in public and not used to hide really ancient sites.
    So far they seem to be concentrated in Egypt and as we believe there are ancient
    sites all over the world some of which could be hundreds of thousands of years
    old and not necassarily homo sapien sapien 'us' imo. Then that opens up a whole
    another subject

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)

    What has changed in the last few years is satallite archaeology which is an exciting
    prospect as long as this is done in public and not used to hide really ancient sites.
    So far they seem to be concentrated in Egypt and as we believe there are ancient
    sites all over the world some of which could be hundreds of thousands of years
    old and not necassarily homo sapien sapien 'us' imo. Then that opens up a whole
    another subject
    Me too about the life long fascination with the ancient mysteries.
    Regarding Antarctica, I am so looking forward to the view under the ice.
    If you'd like to do it, feel free to link your threads ...they get lost in the numerous threads on PA?
    Thanks so much! Maggie

    Quote How surveillance technology helps us find lost civilizations
    Archaeologists are finding more ancient cities and lost human settlements than ever before. And it's all thanks to new imaging technologies commonly used in surveillance. With highly-accurate measurements from satellites, drones, LiDAR, and more, archaeologists are making discoveries that were once impossible.

    Patricia Murrieta-Flores, an archaeologist at Lancaster University in the U.K., told io9 that archeologists have long been early adopters of new technology: "Since very early on, archaeology has learned and adapted theories, methods and techniques from other disciplines, such as geology, geography and chemistry, among many others." Though a previous generation's archeologists might have carried trowels, dustpans and maps, these days they're more likely to be using radar.http://io9.com/how-surveillance-tech...iza-1199363735
    Last edited by Delight; 25th June 2014 at 17:48.

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    The Torus, Hebrew Genesis, Golden Rule= Golden Mean and connection to Atlantis

    We know that the ancients were expert geometricians who embedded concepts of natural law in megalithic stone. The tower of babel that united all in a common language could have been the basic understanding of Universal sacred geometry. This could well be the One Uniting language that was metaphorically described as the the tower built in the legend.

    Religious and later scientific dogma has thwarted the appreciation of this knowledge encoded and the focus devolved to the covering legends. Stan Tenen considers the Golden Rule and other social "rules" to be metaphoric descriptions of laws like The Golden Mean.

    Quote "The Meru Project has discovered an extraordinary and unexpected geometric metaphor in the letter-sequence of the Hebrew text of Genesis that underlies and is held in common by the spiritual traditions of the ancient world. This metaphor models embryonic growth and self-organization. It applies to all whole systems, including those as seemingly diverse as meditational practices and the mathematics fundamental to physics and cosmology...Meru Project findings demonstrate that the relationship between physical theory and consciousness, expressed in explicit geometric metaphor, was understood and developed several thousand years ago." Meru Foundation Research
    Quote "Do you believe that there might have...that there is a connection in this (information) from some other corner of the Universe? That if this..if the code exists, if we we accept what Stan is working on (Stan Tenen interjects here: "We must remember this is conjecture")...If it is true that the codes do exist, someone had to put them there?

    John Keller: Right. One of the legends that has attracted (I am going through a personal transformation in my own life right now) and I am very interested in what is going on among physicists our age in their 30's and 40's, Fritjof Capra is one that is trying to connect modern day science with ancient eastern teachings and showing parallels that exist in those areas.

    Umm, let's assume for example that the legends are correct, that there was an ancient civilization called Atlantis and we're the top scientists and we know, we have a premonition through intuition, through meditation or some kind of scientific analysis that there is going to be some kind of catastrophic event that will wipe out our civilization?

    Why not try to send out in time and space some kind of message coded that will stand the test of time? That will be rediscovered some point in the future when society, civilization has rebuilt itself and approaches what I call a golden age where the physicists are talking to the metaphysicians; where the archeologists are talking to the architects and there is a collation, coalition of knowledge?

    As we know, we are entering an age where there is an information explosion and suddenly people are talking to each other all over the planet instantaneously through electronic communications. This creates very fertile ground for the re assimilation of knowledge that may have been known to ancient people?

    So it is a possibility that the text of genesis contains that kind of information which will be of value to us?" Stan Tenen and John Keller - The Meru Project

    Physical gesture transmission of the patterns

    Squaring the Circle: The One & the Many; Mind & World | Stan Tenen (1999)

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    The cross is a religious Icon but WHY?

    Quote The Cross and the Plumbline

    By Crichton Miller

    I am a Scottish born researcher and Company Director with an interest in prehistory. I have applied for a patent on a derivative of the Celtic cross. This application was published on the 14th of June 2000 under UK patent application GB 2 344 654 A. Despite intensive research by The Patent Office prior to publication, no instrument with its complete attributes has been discovered and its application was not found to be obvious.
    The Celtic cross, which is an ancient and sacred symbol, with which most people are familiar, appears to be a representation of an ancient instrument that was used by our ancestors as far back as Neolithic times. I believe that it was what the Ancient Egyptians and Phoenicians used to survey their buildings and navigate the oceans of the world. Despite the discovery of cocaine in some of the Egyptian Mummies, it has been argued, in august and academic circles, that it was impossible for them or the Phoenicians to have crossed the Atlantic in prehistory, because of their inability to navigate.

    Thor Heyderhal scotched the concept that their boats were incapable with his Ra expedition. I am about to collapse the final argument, by proving that they could navigate and had the instrument to do it.

    The discovery came about in the winter of 1997 when I was trying to figure out what the Ancient Egyptians would have used to survey the great pyramid complex at Giza. All constructions, even ancient ones, require surveying before commencement of work. The incredible pyramid of Cheops and the Giza complex, which seems to embody the mathematical value of PI, would have to be accurately surveyed, as would all similar constructions, including stone circles such as Stonehenge, Avebury and Callanish in Scotland. Callanish is more than 5000 years old and built in the form of a Celtic cross - proof that this knowledge predates the Egyptian Pyramids.

    Through intensive and exhaustive experimentation, a belief in the intelligence of our ancestors and a refusal to believe in little green men as the designers, I discovered that the only appropriate instrument that could have been used by the architect, in the place of a theodolite, was a derivative of the cross, with the addition of a plumbline. http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_5.htm
    The Pyramidal Surveyors

    Quote The Celtic Cross has been shown by Crichton Miller (The Golden Thread of Time, Pendulum Publishing) to be an ancient scientific, and in particular an important navigational device. The Celtic Cross, to be seen in many churchyards, is a design based on the pyramidal triangle. There are other Celtic crosses with different proportions but the one shown in Fig 1, alongside, fits the dimensions and the angles of the pyramidal triangle so perfectly that I believe it is the original shape.

    If we take the centre-line of the horizontal arms we find this forms the base ‘b’ of a pyramidal triangle as in Fig 1 with the apex being the centre of the upper limb of the cross.
    Quote The cross is also designed to give the moment of sunrise allowing for refraction as shown in Fig 2. In addition the open arcs allow the progress of the sun's initial rising to be observed without being blinded.

    Refraction effects mean that when the upper limb of the sun is apparently two diameters above the horizon its lower limb is actually on the horizon.
    This feature is also found in the Egyptian Ankh and the diagram (Fig 3) makes it evident how the design achieves this. So the Pharaoh carried in his regalia a device that held the proportions of the Great Pyramid.

    The device is held with the lower side of the arm on the horizon and it is the moment of sunrise when the sun's orb fills the top of the ankh. Means could have been found to filter the direct rays of the sun and so prevent the observer being blinded.
    The Cross of Thoth + Crichton Miller interviewed by his long-term friend Philip Gardiner

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    another perspective: Graham Hancock states ancient Atlantis might've been present Antarctica but located 2500 miles farther north back then than its present location-

    My intuition, which works fairly well, has told me that "Atlantis" or perhaps an equivalent great civilization existed where all that ice is now. The climate will continue to warm, the sun will continue to be involved, and eventually that big block of ice will melt and expose that which will forever change humanity, and bring the truth of our past straight into the limelight.

    My 2 cents.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Cardillac (here)
    another perspective: Graham Hancock states ancient Atlantis might've been present Antarctica but located 2500 miles farther north back then than its present location-

    My intuition, which works fairly well, has told me that "Atlantis" or perhaps an equivalent great civilization existed where all that ice is now. The climate will continue to warm, the sun will continue to be involved, and eventually that big block of ice will melt and expose that which will forever change humanity, and bring the truth of our past straight into the limelight.

    My 2 cents.
    It may have been? If the ice melts, I hope it won't be as rapid as proposed concerning past world wide floods. Hope we see LIDAR used soon in Antarctica.

    I found a brief interview that is recent with Graham Hancock. He again mentions needing a chronometer and I believe Crighton Miller has identified a simple chronometer.

    Wondering if Hancock has addressed Miller's idea. I found a post on his forum. It is really probable that many consider "Atlantis" to be a maritime civilization. I wonder what the consensus of reserachers is now?

    Quote Crichton proposes that our present system of beliefs and science was inherited from ancient mariners that sailed the oceans of the world in prehistory. He further proposes that the abrupt end of the last ice age, 12,500 years ago, was part of a cataclysm that destroyed of a large part of the flora and fauna of Earth. The most likely humans to survive this cataclysmic event were those who were at sea.

    Crighton proposes that the event likely produced a tsunami (a large wave that travels extremely fast) and that such a large tsunami would be more easily survived at sea, where the effect would be limited to a large swell on the surface of the ocean. The effects of a large tidal wave on a coastline, however, would be horrendous. The giant wall of water would have been turned into a breaking wave as it reached shallower depths, annihilating all before it as it rushed up the beach with churning debris.Crichton suggests that the sea level around the globe rose with the melting ice caps.

    Archaeological evidence of earlier civilizations is almost impossible to find since it is now below 300 feet of new sea water which changed the topography of coastlines, where most advanced civilizations were based. However Crichton proposes that there is other evidence of earlier civilizations and that this evidence has been left intact in stone and myth for us to decipher.Crichton believes that these pre-cataclysmic civilizations were maritime based.

    These ancient sea-going people had developed a form of geometry and mathematics that was linked to astronomy and astrology and developed out of their nautical lifestyles. To successfully travel on the world's oceans and seas, you must be able to know your position and direction. Navigators recognized that the Sun was directly overhead at mid-day. To find the longitude (East and West position) these navigators had to know the approximate time, both locally and at a prime meridian (an arbitrary North-South line from which the plotted position would be calculated).

    Today the prime meridian is at Greenwich (0 degrees longitude), but Crichton proposes that the original prime meridian was at Giza in Egypt from which all local times and distances were calculated.If this is true, this theory could explain the observed similarities in structures and astronomical orientations in many locations all over the Earth. Crichton proposes that these locations as watch stations. This network of astronomically aligned structures has long been investigated, but in the face of no real evidence, the similarities of these global sites is deemed coincidental.Many investigators and writers have commented on various bits and pieces of evidence that could not be explained. Explorers have brought volumes of information to the public attention. This information has only deepened the sense of mystery and, in some cases, has convinced a large section of the population that aliens must have been involved in these sites. Crichton does not believe that aliens were involved; instead, he prefers to think that we are the aliens because we do not understand the way our ancestors thought and lived.http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/...=74897&t=74897

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    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Gosford Glyphs Roundtable - Klaus Dona S&E.Strong H.Newman L.Scranton P.Awyan on Capricorn Radio - June 2014

    300 engravings in Australia chiseled in sandstone. In the 80's the site came to public notice. The site has potential to demonstrate evidence of Egyptian contact with Australia. The original people of Australia have said they are legitimately ancient engravings.

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