+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 3 5 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 87

Thread: Atlantis: where and when was it?

  1. Link to Post #41
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    I was influenced in 4th grade when we studied "Egypt" because I could not understand how a "civilization" could just disappear. Why?

    MAYBE ITS COMETS COMETS COMETS all the way down??


    Woodcut showing destructive influence of a fourth century comet from Stanilaus Lubienietski's Theatrum Cometicum (Amsterdam, 1668)

    Here are some early scientific comet drawings from Johannes Hevelius' Cometographia (Danzig, 1668) and from early China:





    The impact of even a small and glancing blow from comet fragments can be dramatic.
    My investigation in to Atlantis is suggesting a really bigger issue...
    how do we LIVE with periodic, predictable (but unpredictable in effects) comets impacts? For some reason, this is only "hitting me" now as a SIGNIFICANT factor to be empahsized. Catastrophobia has a good reason....

    Quote For thousands of years, the appearance of a comet in the terrestrial skies has provoked deep anxiety and even collective hysteria in humans the world over. The reasons for this response are not entirely clear. Working with historical testimony, David Talbott and his colleagues have concluded that comet fears originated in a global experience of catastrophe and terror. Behind all of the regional traditions and stories is the memory of the "Great Comet," the mother of all comets. The memory traces to the origins of world mythology, according to Talbott, and is particularly vivid in the story of a cosmic serpent or dragon threatening to destroy the world. The most common ancient ideas attached to a comet were the death of kings, the fall of kingdoms, cosmic upheaval, and the end of the world.
    The Electric Comet
    I just heard about a comet named for an astronomer named Encke





    Quote Comet Encke

    Comet Encke is thought by some astronomers to be a piece of a larger comet that broke up 20,000 to 30,000 years ago. Comet Encke is believed to be the originator of several related meteor showers known as the Taurids (which are encountered as the Northern and Southern Taurids across November, and the Beta Taurids in late June and early July).

    Encke orbits the Sun every 3.3 years - the shortest period of any known comet. Given Encke’s low orbital inclination near the ecliptic and brief orbital period of 3 years, the orbit of Encke is frequently perturbed by the inner planets. The diameter of the nucleus of Encke’s Comet is 4.8 km.Taurids
    Here is some information FYI concerning the recurrent influence of this comet on the shaping of our present world civilization. The shape of our past 6000 years may have been triggered by Comet Encke in 3100 BC.

    Quote "The outrageous suggestion that I am going to make is that the Taurid Complex was producing phenomenal meteor storms between 4,500 and 5,000 years ago, accompanied by multiple Tunguska-class atmospheric detonations, and that Stonehenge I was designed to allow the (awestruck, terrified) culture of southern England to make observations of the Phenomena and to perhaps predict their recurrence. Peter Lancaster Brown, in his book on megalithic sites, wrote that "Eclipses, comets and meteorites were astronomical phenomena widely observed by the ancients. But probably only eclipses were predictable." (Steel means to imply that Stonehenge I was needed to make observations because meteorite falls are far more unpredictable, but and at the same time may be long-lasting and recurring. - TN.)

    Steel continues this theme in Peiser et al.: Natural Catastrophes (Oxford, 1998) by commenting that he sees no connection between the original Stonehenge I (built in 3100 BC) and the thousand year later Stonehenge II and Stonehenge III except the place. The original one was a scientific observatory, not for Sun, or Moon, or eclipses, but for watching dangerous meteorites, asteroids and comets. The later Stonehenges with their stones (the image of Stonehenge that we have of it today), was more that of a ritual and sanctuary than for any practical/scientific purpose. Of course it could be used for some trivial astronomical calculations (solstices, eclipses), but its original purpose was hardly known for the later builders. The world's first scientific astronomical observatory changed to a ritual place, because it was not anymore needed for its original purpose when the Taurids did not at that moment bother mankind, in fact the Taurids lived only in legends. Today the legends are coming part of a serious scientific study. What a change in paradigm!

    Rogue Asteroids: "Comet Encke is associated with the Taurid Complex. If we follow the orbit of P/Encke backward, we find that it intersected that of the Earth around 1,800 and 5,000 years ago (ascending) and 2,100 and 4,700 years ago (descending)."

    The Taurid complex is a comet/meteor swarm complex, whose main body is the periodic comet Encke with an unknown number of meteoroid swarms plus possibly some small body pieces. When the Taurid complex intersected Earth 5000 years ago, maybe around 3100 BC, it may have caused a 100 year long period of tunguskans and mini-tunguskans.

    Clube and Napier have already in their legendary "The Cosmic Winter" (Oxford (UK), Cambridge (US), 1990) told the Taurid story:

    "It seems clear that we are looking at debris from the breakup of an extremely large object. The disintegration, or sequence of disintegrations, must have taken place within the past twenty or thirty thousand years as otherwise the asteroids would have spread around the inner planetary system and be no longer recognizable as a stream.

    "The second discovery, due mainly to the Czechoslovakian astronomer Stohl, is that enveloping the Taurids, Comet Encke and these particular asteroids is a broad tube of meteoric debris. ... The Stohl stream is apparently double due probably to an exceptional fragmentation... The mass of the meteoric material within the Stohl stream is 10 or 20 billion tonnes. ... Adding in the mass of gas and very fine dust ... we find that the original body must have been about 100 kilometres across. ... Backtracking the orbits of Encke and Oljato, we find that 9500 years ago their orbits were nearly identical. It is possible there was a major disintegration of the prime body then, with much debris created of which Comet Encke and Oljato are the largest known bodies ... Oljato itself is in an orbit which brought it virtually into the Earth's orbital plane for some centuries around 3000-3500 BC."

    Was it Oljato's tail that swarmed Earth around 3100 BC? Did it have a partner or is Swift-Tuttle a part of a parent body of both or did the parent body disintgrate into three parts: Oljate, Swift-Tuttle and a third part that rained on Earth 13 August 3114 BC, the Mayan day zero?

    Darwin was not wrong while saying that evolution is the survival of the fittest, but today we must add that evolution is the survival of the fittest of the luckiest. The Third Millennium BC (3100-2100 BC)


    Evidence is taken from the Vedas of Encke's role.....

    The Meaning of Vedas
    Quote STATEMENT OF HYPOTHESIS

    1. The hypothesis is based on the theory of coherent Catastrophism put forth by astronomers M/s. Victor Clube, Bill Napier, and David Asher.

    2. The theory states that a large comet settled in the inner solar system, some 20,000 years ago, causing last mini ice age.

    3. This comet disintegrated around 7000 B.C. It caused some catastrophic events on Earth, like crater formation, trenching and flooding due to Tsunami waves.

    4. As a result of intense heat generated during meteoric impacts, natural glass was formed on the surface of earth.

    5. A bright comet was then visible from earth. The next four millennia were a period of celestial peace and human cultural development from Stone Age to Bronze Age.

    6. This comet further disintegrated around 3100 B.C. A series of 5 to 7 bright comets were visible in the sky for a period of few centuries. This disintegration also resulted in creation of a belt of asteroids and dust. This belt is known as Taurids and is still the cause of increased meteor falls in the first half of the month of November when earth intersects the Taurids orbit.

    7. The orbit of Taurids is in a 7:2 resonance with planet Jupiter. The gravitational effects of this massive planet cause this orbit to rotate slowly around its own axis.

    8. Because of this orbital precession, Taurids directly intersect earth’s orbit after a period of around 2500 years. This is a period of destruction due to bombardment of meteors of various sizes and in different locations on earth.

    9. According to the astronomers mentioned above, two such periods were around the years 2000 B.C. and 500 A.D. They have predicted that the next episode is likely to occur around the year 3000 A.D.

    10. Comet Encke-P2 is the largest remnant of this celestial turmoil and is still visible through a powerful telescope. It was visible to the naked eye till the end of 18th century. This comet completes its rotation around the Sun in 3.3 years.

    11. The deductions mentioned above are based on actual observations, mathematical calculations and computer modeling. The researchers are qualified scientists and their papers are published in journals of repute.

    12. For the purpose of present hypothesis, the theory put forth by these astronomers is taken to be true at its face value.

    The record of this celestial turmoil is available to us in different forms, but has not been looked at with the correct perspective. Following are some of the important sources.

    Descriptions in Vedic Literature
    1. Meteor showers, most likely to be seasonal.

    2. Bright, comet like objects streaking across the sky.

    3. Deification of these astral bodies.

    4. Abject terror of these deities

    5. Hymns and songs to pacify these deities.

    6. Prayers for self protection and destruction of enemies.

    7. Rituals and legends to keep these memories alive.



    · Abnormal geological formations in study areas



    1. Formation of Dhayya ridge in planes of Punjab.

    2. Presence of a large number of salt playas and salt water lakes like Sambhar and Didwana in deserts of Rajasthan.

    3. Newly emerging evidence of presence of impact craters in the region extending from Saurashtra to Kasmir.

    4. Disappearance of mighty Saraswati River and changed courses of rivers Yamuna and Sutlej.



    · Archaeological evidence available mainly from Indus culture sites



    1. Evidence of destruction at Harappa.

    2. Faience objects, vitreous paste and talcose faience.

    3. A special type of pottery called gray-ware.

    4. Stones with high specific gravity (more than 2.8)

    5. Corbelled water drains found at Mohenjodaro and Harappa.

    6. Burial pottery found at Harappa.



    The key factor that establishes a direct link between the Vedic Literature and Indus Culture is Soma. Present hypothesis claims that Soma was not a plant or herb having any kind of medicinal or intoxicating effects. In fact, it was natural glass formed during impact events. The process of making Soma juice was actually a process of creating static electrical charge on Soma particles by rubbing them on sheep skin. Earthing was provided by pouring charged Soma particles into a water trough. The static electrical energy accumulated on Soma particles, when discharged, produced sparks with sound. This, indeed, was magical. The pounded Soma was then finely ground and was used to make small moulded articles or to give a glazed coating on amulets which were supposed to have magical properties. This Soma powder was called a kind of gold, ‘Hiranya or Suvarna.’ There are enough references in the Vedic literature which describe the procedure of making Soma. There are also some Suktas which link Soma with Hiranya and describe the manufacturing of amulets called as ‘Mani.’



    Indra was the first and brightest comet. The destruction that he had caused was awful. Salt playas and lakes in Rajasthan are probably the result of a huge Tsunami wave. Dhayya ridge in Punjab can be a result of trenching caused by a streaking-earth gazing asteroid. These, on any scale, are the mightiest of the events if they were caused by Indra.



    Adityas were a group of bright comets created around the year 3100 B.C. In the beginning they were seven. Mitra, Varuna and Aryaman belonged to the first group; Bhag, Pushan and Savitru constituted the second. Indra, of course, was the mightiest amongst them. Vishnu was the last of them. In his Vaman incarnation, he was dwarf and blue in colour. He went round the region thrice in rapid succession leaving destruction in its wake. Vedic literature describes this Tri-vikrama with awe and fear.



    Maruts were the Gods, bright and numerous. Their arrival was seasonal. They came in autumn causing terror in the minds of hapless people. Rudra, their father was of the same nature. It is clearly stated in the Vedic literature that Rudra the terrible, accompanied by his sister Ambika causes destruction in Autumn.



    Ashvinikumar were the twin stars who announced the reversal of Sun God’s path and made him travel northwards bringing new harvests and thus renewing life.



    The book gives adequate (in fact, numerous) references from Vedic literature to support the above statements.



    The ritual of ‘Pravargya’ as described in Vedic literature is a vivid description of distant Aditya accompanied by Maruts spreading disasters on Earth. More interesting is the raw material used and process of making the pottery required to be used in this ritual. It points directly and unmistakably to the enigmatic “Gray-Ware” found in remnants of the Indus Culture.



    Darshapurnamas Ishti is a sacrifice that was performed on every new and full Moon day. This was an important ritual in which baked rice was given as food to the Gods. This hypothesis establishes a link between this ritual and ancient Soma sacrifice. It is proposed that husked rice was used as a substitute for Soma. Although the ritual was suitably modified, the recitation of original chants (mantras) did not change. The meaning expressed by these chants provides the necessary link.



    Mahavrata is another ancient ritual described in Vedic literature. A bull or a cow was sacrificed at the end of this ritual; it also marked the end of year. A flying falcon and a swing almost touching the ground are the two important symbols, which again point to some astral disturbances.



    Evidence for existence of Soma is available in Indus culture. A substance named as vitreous paste is described in archaeological reports. It is a mixture of silica and metal oxides. The silica contents are generally above 80%. The substance shows a hardness of 6 on Mohr’s scale. It almost always has entrapped air in the form of fine spherical bubbles. Its specific gravity varies between 2.2 to 2.5. It, thus, resembles natural impact glass in terms of all its properties including various colours. Glazed seals and moulded faience objects were probably prepared by making a powder of this vitreous paste and then using it as a moulding or coating material. Modern science has still not been able to explain satisfactorily the manufacturing process for these faience objects. There is almost no archaeological evidence about the existence of furnaces, crucibles etc. to prove that Indus faience/vitreous paste (not faience articles) was man-made.



    Presence of the so called ‘Corbelled Arch Water Drains’ at Mohenjodaro and Harappa indicate that these structures were more likely to be air-raid shelters from meteoric impacts, than water drains. Their locations, lengths and constructional features are more logical and appealing to common sense if they are called shelters rather than drains. A sukta in Rig Veda describes the destruction of ‘Vailsthanas’ by Indra.



    The paintings on burial pottery found at Harappa shows peacocks, bulls and some semi human figurines. Most of these figures have long plumes which in fact look more like comet tails. These pictures can be interpreted as a depiction of important features of the visible sky during those times.



    The Indus Unicorn can be interpreted as a representation of a group of deities- the Adityas! The banner/sign in front of this animal is a pictorial representation of ‘making Soma.’



    So far, no one appears to have computed the specific gravity of the famous ‘Standard Weight’ stones of the Indus Culture. This simple calculation reveals that some of these stones have specific gravities ranging from 2.8 to 3.2. This, indeed, is a high value for stones which are generally labeled as chert, limestone or granite. It is possible that some of these stones are pieces of meteorites and this point needs further investigation.



    ***



    The book presents this hypothesis, quoting and explaining references from Vedic literature. It also comments on the inadequacies and errors in translation, especially of hymns related to Soma. These errors have occurred because the Translator always has presumed Soma to be a plant/herb. This book also discusses the Archaeological evidence, mainly from the sites of Mohenjodaro and Harappa. Reports published by Sir John Marshall and Sri. Madhosarup Vats are considered as primary sources.



    Latest research papers dealing with physical properties of faience and gray-ware are referred. Unfortunately, such papers are very few in number and they tend to raise more questions than giving satisfactory answers.


    With due respect to all the proponents of Aryan Homeland Theories and various scholars’ claims about the antiquity and chronology of the Vedic literature, none of them are referred to in this book. I am quite aware that if the present hypothesis is found tenable then a lot of further work will have to be done. That, perhaps, will be the right time to consider and evaluate various views expressed so far on this controversial subject.
    Quote 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC.



    According to Duncan Steele four comets one month apart made terrestial orbit intersections with the Earth in 3,100 BC.



    One theory states that the comet Proto-Encke made its closest pass to the Earth in 3,100 BC.



    Clube and Napier postulate that between 3,500 BC and 3,000 BC an asteroid known as Olijato had repeated close encounters with the Earth. Clube and Olijato thought that Olijato was a fragment of a larger comet that broke up around 4,000 years earlier.





    Around 3,150 BC there was a massive electromagnetic surge in the earth’s atmosphere that effected the earth’s magnetic field. This could have been caused by a collision with a cosmic body.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Atlantic Ocean.


    Between 3,200 BC and 3,000 BC there were two centuries of rapid drying and cooling as Atlantic Ocean circulation apparently shut down again. The Gulf Stream may have stopped again.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Australia. Northern Territory.



    The Henbury Meteorite Crater is in the Northern Territory of Australia and is five hundred feet wide and is dated to 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Azores.



    There was massive vulcanism in the Azores around 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Babylon.



    Berosus the Chaldean or Babylonian historian wrote about the Great Flood and that it occurred on the 15th day in the month of Daisios or June 15th 3,116 BC.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. China.



    Chinese mythology mentions that the Emperor Fu Hsi arrived after the Great Flood which occurred around 2,950 BC.

    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Egypt.



    Professor Ioannis Liritzis of the University of Rhodes in the Greek Islands found evidence that a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea in 3,150 BC.



    Egyptologist Peter Clayton gives a starting date of 3,150 BC for the beginning of Egyptian civilization.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Egypt. Sinai Peninsula. 34.00e,



    29.00n. 34e29n.



    The plateau of the Sinai Peninsula is covered with formations of basalt lava. There are also wide stretches of the Arabian Desert that also glisten with lava. Lava formations interspersed with extinguished volcanoes stretch from the vicinity of Palmyra in Jordan southward into Arabia as far as Mecca. These volcanoes only became extinct a few thousand years ago. Was this last occurrence during one of the Cataclysms?



    There are also vast fields of burnt sharp stones here on what was fertile well watered land prior to the appearance of the strange stones. This is the same as in Arabia, which is just across the Gulf of Aquaba.



    The Sinai Desert is today covered with blackened stones that are scattered across the landscape and for which there is no known reason unless it is the Biblical one. At Har Karkom, Jebel Ideid, a sacred mountain community dating back to 3,000 BC, there are many boulders several feet in size that have been mysteriously blackened and on which numerous ancient travelers have etched signs and symbols. The rocks are blackened only on the surface.



    On the large mountain plateau of Har Kerkom, also in Sinai, the top is covered in an expanse of black stone fragments known to the locals as hamada. In some places in ancient times the hamada layer has been cleared to form what are called hut circles.

    The blackened rocks in the Sinai resemble volcanic rocks but there are no volcanoes in the area now.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. England.



    A dust veil event happened in Ireland and England. This is the abrupt appearance of massive amounts of ash in the atmosphere. This is from tree rings from the period of 3,100 BC. There is increased cosmic dust falling.





    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Greenland.



    An ice core recovered from Camp Century showed an acidity spike which indicated that there was a large increase in falling ash world wide in 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Iceland.



    There was a peak in vulcanism in Iceland in 3,100 BC at Mount Hiemay. This was coincidentally with vulcanism in the Azores at the same time due south of Iceland?



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. India.



    In the Vishnu Purana there is mention of the lost city of Dwarka which was governed by Krishna which was thought to have been on a large island off the northwest coast of India. Dwarka was submerged by a suddenly rising ocean at the dawn of the Age of Kali which according to the Vishnu Purana was in 3,102 BC.



    Other Indian scriptures mention the submerged city of Mahabilipuram that was totally swallowed up by the sea in a great flood. This city was a copy of the palace of the Gods which its architect and ruler had visited. The Great god Indra commanded the submerging of the city by convening all of the other dieities of Heaven to call down watery judgement on the blasphemous inhabitants. Mahabilipuram meant “City of the Great Giant”.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Ireland.



    A dust veil event happened in Ireland and England. This is the abrupt appearance of massive amounts of ash in the atmosphere. This is from tree rings from the period of 3,100 BC. There is increased cosmic dust falling.



    Tree rings in Ireland indicate enormous ashfall around 3,150 BC.



    According to Mike Baillie, a dendrochronologist at Queens University in Belfast in Northern Ireland there was a major temperature trough worldwide around 3,150 BC. Baillie had constructed an Irish bog oak dendochronology spanning the period from 5,000 BC to 1,000 AD. The Irish bog oaks showed a pattern of narrow rings, indicating extremely minimal growth, around 3,150 BC. In fact the rings were so narrow that Baillie could barely measure them indicating that weather conditions had been catastrophic. These narrow rings covered most of the 1,620s and unlike a major volcanic eruption lasted almost a decade. Even the largest volcanic eruptions only produce nuclear winter conditions for around three years. Baillie then compared his bog oak data against Greenland ice cores and a number of dates lined up indicated by ice core acid layers. These major weather events, much larger than volcanic induced nuclear winter conditions, occurred within thirty years of 210 BC, fifty years of 1,120 BC, ninety years of 3,150 BC and one hundred years of 4,400 BC. When new data was published in 1987 it showed another major acid layer within twenty years of 1,645 BC.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Israel.



    For no known reason the Dead Sea rose 300 feet around 3,100 BC.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Mediterranean Sea.



    The direction of the Earth’s magnetic field abruptly changed in 3,150 BC when a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea.



    Professor Ioannis Liritzis of the University of Rhodes in the Greek Islands found evidence that a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea in 3,150 BC.





    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Mexico.



    The Mayan calendar was founded on August 10th 3,113 BC by Kukulkan the great Civilizer. Other sources state August 12th. In Egypt this date when Gods and men sailed from their sinking island home and arrived in the Nile Delta was around 3,100 BC. The Babylonians had a date of 3,116 BC when Oannes the fish headed god arrived and brought civilization to Sumeria. Incidentally in Indian Mythology, from India, Dwarka was submerged by a suddenly rising ocean at the dawn of the Age of Kali which according to the Vishnu Purana was in 3,102 BC.



    Kukulkan arrived after the “Hun yecil” the Drowning of the Trees which covered the world.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Peru.



    Glaciologist Lonnie Thompson has accumulated evidence that indicates that there was a major change in Earth’s climate approximately 5,200 years ago. By studying plants released by the Quelccaya Ice cap in the Peruvian Andes Thompson found by carbon dating them that they were suddenly buried alive by ice around 3,200 BC. How accurate is carbon dating though?



    Around 3,150 BC the climate of Peru changed suddenly from that of a warm and wet and tropical climate to a different climate that was colder, dryer and less tropical. The Aspero pyramids were built at this same time.



    Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Sri Lanka.



    The Tamil people of Sri Lanka and southern India remember their ancestors coming to Sri Lanka after their island kingdom called Nawalam perished in the sea a long time ago.



    Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Taiwan.



    Massive flooding in Taiwan forced Austronesians who are members of an archeological group called the Dawenkou and inhabited Shandong and Jiangsu to leave Taiwan and travel south to the Philippines. These are the ancestors of the proto-Malay groups of people and languages.
    Proofs of Catyclysms.
    Last edited by Delight; 16th February 2015 at 17:38.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    conk (19th October 2016), Octavusprime (16th February 2015), Wind (17th February 2015)

  3. Link to Post #42
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    IMO, if I knew comets were likely to hit, I would want to be underground with the ant people. The Hopi legend of the four worlds....

    Quote This story comes from the Hopi people of northern Arizona. "Hopi" means "People of Peace". The stories here were recorded in the 1950s by Oswald White Bear Fredericks and his wife Naomi from the storytelling of older Hopi at the village of Oraibi, which tree-ring dating indicates has been inhabited by the Hopi since at least 1150 AD.

    The Four Creations

    The world at first was endless space in which existed only the Creator, Taiowa. This world had no time, no shape, and no life, except in the mind of the Creator. Eventually the infinite creator created the finite in Sotuknang, whom he called his nephew and whom he created as his agent to establish nine universes. Sotuknang gathered together matter from the endless space to make the nine solid worlds. Then the Creator instructed him to gather together the waters from the endless space and place them on these worlds to make land and sea. When Sotuknang had done that, the Creator instructed him to gather together air to make winds and breezes on these worlds.

    The fourth act of creation with which the Creator charged Sotuknang was the creation of life. Sotuknang went to the world that was to first host life and there he created Spider Woman, and he gave her the power to create life. First Spider Woman took some earth and mixed it with saliva to make two beings. Over them she sang the Creation Song, and they came to life. She instructed one of them, Poqanghoya, to go across the earth and solidify it. She instructed the other, Palongawhoya, to send out sound to resonate through the earth, so that the earth vibrated with the energy of the Creator. Poqanghoya and Palongawhoya were despatched to the poles of the earth to keep it rotating.

    Then Spider Woman made all the plants, the flowers, the bushes, and the trees. Likewise she made the birds and animals, again using earth and singing the Creation Song. When all this was done, she made human beings, using yellow, red, white, and black earth mixed with her saliva. Singing the Creation Song, she made four men, and then in her own form she made four women. At first they had a soft spot in their foreheads, and although it solidified, it left a space through which they could hear the voice of Sotuknang and their Creator. Because these people could not speak, Spider Woman called on Sotuknang, who gave them four languages. His only instructions were for them to respect their Creator and to live in harmony with him.

    These people spread across the earth and multiplied. Despite their four languages, in those days they could understand each other's thoughts anyway, and for many years they and the animals lived together as one. Eventually, however, they began to divide, both the people from the animals and the people from each other, as they focused on their differences rather than their similarities. As division and suspicion became more widespread, only a few people from each of the four groups still remembered their Creator. Sotuknang appeared before these few and told them that he and the Creator would have to destroy this world, and that these few who remembered the Creator must travel across the land, following a cloud and a star, to find refuge. These people began their treks from the places where they lived, and when they finally converged Sotuknang appeared again. He opened a huge ant mound and told these people to go down in it to live with the ants while he destroyed the world with fire, and he told them to learn from the ants while they were there. The people went down and lived with the ants, who had storerooms of food that they had gathered in the summer, as well as chambers in which the people could live. This went on for quite a while, because after Sotuknang cleansed the world with fire it took a long time for the world to cool off. As the ants' food ran low, the people refused the food, but the ants kept feeding them and only tightened their own belts, which is why ants have such tiny waists today.

    Finally Sotuknang was done making the second world, which was not quite as beautiful as the first. Again he admonished the people to remember their Creator as they and the ants that had hosted them spread across the earth. The people multiplied rapidly and soon covered the entire earth. They did not live with the animals, however, because the animals in this second world were wild and unfriendly. Instead the people lived in villages and built roads between these, so that trade sprang up. They stored goods and traded those for goods from elsewhere, and soon they were trading for things they did not need. As their desire to have more and more grew, they began to forget their Creator, and soon wars over resources and trade were breaking out between villages. Finally Sotuknang appeared before the few people who still remembered the Creator, and again he sent them to live with the ants while he destroyed this corrupt world. This time he ordered Poqanghoya and Palongawhoya to abandon their posts at the poles, and soon the world spun out of control and rolled over. Mountains slid and fell, and lakes and rivers splashed across the land as the earth tumbled, and finally the earth froze over into nothing but ice.

    This went on for years, and again the people lived with the ants. Finally Sotuknang sent Poqanghoya and Palongawhoya back to the poles to resume the normal rotation of the earth, and soon the ice melted and life returned. Sotuknang called the people up from their refuge, and he introduced them to the third world that he had made. Again he admonished the people to remember their Creator as they spread across the land. As they did so, they multiplied quickly, even more quickly than before, and soon they were living in large cities and developing into separate nations. With so many people and so many nations, soon there was war, and some of the nations made huge shields on which they could fly, and from these flying shields they attacked other cities. When Sotuknang saw all this war and destruction, he resolved to destroy this world quickly before it corrupted the few people who still remembered the Creator. He called on Spider Woman to gather those few and, along the shore, she placed each person with a little food in the hollow stem of a reed. When she had done this, Sotuknang let loose a flood that destroyed the warring cities and the world on which they lived.

    Once the rocking of the waves ceased, Spider Woman unsealed the reeds so the people could see. They floated on the water for many days, looking for land, until finally they drifted to an island. On the island they built little reed boats and set sail again to the east. After drifting many days, they came to a larger island, and after many more days to an even larger island. They hoped that this would be the fourth world that Sótuknang had made for them, but Spider Woman assured them that they still had a long and hard journey ahead. They walked across this island and built rafts on the far side, and set sail to the east again. They came to a fourth and still larger island, but again they had to cross it on foot and then build more rafts to continue east. From this island, Spider Woman sent them on alone, and after many days they encountered a vast land. Its shores were so high that they could not find a place to land, and only by opening the doors in their heads did they know where to go to land.

    When they finally got ashore, Sotuknang was there waiting for them. As they watched to the west, he made the islands that they had used like stepping stones disappear into the sea. He welcomed them to the fourth world, but he warned them that it was not as beautiful as the previous ones, and that life here would be harder, with heat and cold, and tall mountains and deep valleys. He sent them on their way to migrate across the wild new land in search of the homes for their respective clans. The clans were to migrate across the land to learn its ways, although some grew weak and stopped in the warm climates or rich lands along the way. The Hopi trekked and far and wide, and went through the cold and icy country to the north before finally settling in the arid lands between the Colorado River and Rio Grande River. They chose that place so that the hardship of their life would always remind them of their dependence on, and link to, their Creator.Four Creations
    One of the questions I have had is about the evidence of massive preparation and use of underground tunnels, chambers and cities, dolmen and all kinds of labor intensive architecture under cliff overhangs, under the earth surface or in caves or embedded in cliffs. What was the relationship to natural catyclysm and the aftermath?

    1. They had to be readied in advance so were in preparation for more than response after events. Some could hypothetically be 10s of thousands of years old for pre-ice age planning???

    2. Underground cities at least anywhere near water would be the worst place to go in flooding so they must have been for a different kind of threat like fire form the sky?

    IF the incidence of threat diminished so much that something like the streams of recorded comets were only barely recalled nightmares, then it makes sense that the use of underground shelters would end and be forgotten.

    The sacred (scared) rituals performed to appease "Gods" and ward off destruction might still be our "cultural" sacraments. The catastrophobia driving our willingness to seek safety and protection over creativity but the direct reason associated with the fear is subconscious.

    Examples of http://www.exohuman.com/wordpress/20...sday-shelters/Ancient Underground Shelters include

    "There is a labyrinth of vaults known as an “Erdstall” near the town of Glonn near Munich. It is at least 25 meters (82 feet) long and likely stems from the Middle Ages. A few radiocarbon dating analyses have been performed, and they indicate that the galleries date back to the 10th to the 13th century, but Heinrich Kusch believes that these results are incorrect. He suspects that some of the subterranean systems were built about 5,000 years ago, in the Neolithic period." http://www.exohuman.com/wordpress/20...sday-shelters/


    "Derinkuyu Underground City is an ancient multi-level complex in Nevşehir Province, Turkey. It is on the road between Nevşehir and Niğde, at a distance of 29 km from Nevşehir. With its thirteen floors extending to a depth of approximately 85 m, it was large enough to shelter 30,000 thousands people together with their livestock and food stores."





    Why?





    This article is interesting and large cometary meteorites would be "like" nuclear weapons.....

    Quote The mysterious underground land
    Polish researcher Ian Paenk argues that system of ancient tunnel covers the entire planet, including the ocean floor. Tunnels as if burned in the land. Their walls are hardened molten rock that looks like glass. Modern humanity like tunneling technology is unknown.

    The oldest tunnels, whose age is estimated at about one million years old, found in 1965 by Argentine Juan ethnologist Maurice. In Ecuador, in the province of Morona-Santiago, his expedition explored and mapped the system of tunnels, mostly rectangular, lies at a depth of 230 meters. Their smooth walls seem polished. They found vent pipe diameter of about 70 centimeters. These mysterious underground structures extend for hundreds of miles in all directions, including towards the Pacific Ocean. Most of them are still unexplored.

    American specialist Andrew Thomas is convinced that the ancient underground tunnels penetrate the North American continent, and associate it with Europe and East Asia. In some places, there is an important crossroads of the tunnel — the nodes. One node is located under Mount Shasta in California. Hence one of the branches is a huge cavity, discovered in 1980, under the bottom of the Pacific Ocean near California.

    Another node is Tibet. literally riddled with underground tunnels with perfectly smooth walls. Buddhist monks say that here, in the depths of the mountains and the earth. is legendary Shambhala, which is inhabited by initiates. These mysterious people move through the tunnels in devices moving at great speed.

    Vast unexplored underground cavities were found recently in Egypt, the pyramids at Giza. They spend a great galleries to the north — to the Black Sea and the Caucasus, to the east — to Tibet and to the west — to the Atlantic Ocean. There they are, seem to connect with the American system of tunnels.

    In the Caucasus and Crimea is another ancient site of the underground system. Cavers found in the Caucasus, a mountain range Uvarov, tunnels, going to the Crimea. Caspian Sea and the Volga region. The Volga is Medveditskaya mountain range, in the depths of which also has an extensive network of tunnels. Most of them have a circular cross-section, their diameter ranges from 7 to 30 meters. There are also rooms large.

    Researcher P. Mironichenko in his book "The Legend of the LFA" writes that the ancient underground tunnels stitched all of Russia, including Siberia and the Far East. While not all discovered tunnels. Similar findings are made more often than chance. For example, the ancient underground tunnel was discovered in 1950 during the construction of a tunnel under the bottom of the Tatar Strait, when they wanted to join the underground railroad Sakhalin Island to the mainland. According to the memoirs of one of the participants of those works, Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Sciences Berman, tunnellers not so constructed as restoring a very old tunnel. To the end and did not get. It is assumed that he is going through Sakhalin to Japan and then to America.

    Ancient people were waiting for a nuclear strike

    It is noticed that the older and deeper tunnel, so it is perfect in design and fine-tuned. Tunnels age 12,000 years found in Western Europe — the most "young" and structurally the most serious of all known ancient underground structures. But even they could not be built by primitive people who inhabited by modern historical views, at the time the planet. What to say about a lot more sophisticated tunnels, whose age is estimated in the tens of thousands and millions of years! Remains n We assume that in ancient times on Earth there really any advanced civilization, which for some reason has disappeared from the surface of the planet, leaving her only our uncivilized ancestors.

    Speaking about the reasons for her disappearance, some experts point to the possibility of the outbreak in ancient times a nuclear war. Careful study of a group of French experts dozens of large craters on the planet's surface, which are considered traces of meteorite impacts, showed that they could be formed as a result of nuclear explosions. The age of most craters is estimated at 25 thousand years. The deepest is in South Africa. According to researchers, it was formed by a nuclear strike capacity of over 500,000 tons of TNT-equivalent of fishing (power of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, is estimated at 20 000 tonnes).

    Apparently, 25,000 years ago, then humanity knew about the impending nuclear attack and were preparing for it. For this purpose were created underground shelters. But it is unknown whether they have helped: detecting tunnels are empty. This raises the question of who built the more ancient underground structures, age hundreds of thousands and millions of years? Why were they built?

    Underground country

    The easiest way to explain the occurrence of tunnel activity alien invaders. But now, most researchers are inclined to think that these constructions created the world's people, has the highest technology. Perhaps the most ancient underground tunnels were built in anticipation of a global natural disaster. Science is beginning to approach the understanding that after a certain period of time on Earth is a terrible cataclysm. The most devastating of these occur about once every 60 million years. Not as powerful, but also threatening the existence of humanity catastrophes occur at intervals of 100, 41 and 21 thousand years. Knowing this, the oldest "supermen", first built tunnels, and then completely went to great natural cavities under the ground, where there are the sea, its fauna and flora. The existence of a self-contained underground biosphere with many ancient forms of life and it has been postulated by modern science. People were able to settle in this underground world, adapt to it and continue to exist.
    Mysterious underground tunnels
    There are so many stories...even in Los Angeles....


  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Aspen (17th March 2015)

  5. Link to Post #43
    Belgium Avalon Member Violet's Avatar
    Join Date
    18th August 2011
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    5,274
    Thanked 9,182 times in 1,657 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Yay! Third page doesn't crash.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Violet For This Post:

    Delight (17th February 2015)

  7. Link to Post #44
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Flooding covered land where many people lived in the remote past. A PACIFIC "continen"t that may have extended from South India, where the Hawaiian Islands remain and perhaps other Pacific locations is related to several mythic traditions called Lemuria, Kumari Kandam, the ancient Tamil civilization (and Dravidians), Sundaland.




    Proposed Ancient Kumari Kumar



    Quote Expedition to Poompuhar - Remains of Kumari Kandam - Graham Hancock Underworld E02 (2002)
    Is it a coincidence that there are ancient Tamil flood myths that speak of a great kingdom that once existed in this area called Kumari Kandam that was swallowed up by the sea? Amazingly the myths put a date of 11,600 years ago on these events -- the same timeframe given by Plato for the end of Atlantis in another ocean.

    Like the cities in the Gulf of Cambay the underwater structures three miles offshore of Poompuhar were first identified by an instrument called sidescan sonar that profiles the seabed. One structure in particular was singled out for investigation and was explored by divers from India's National Institute of Oceanography in 1991 and 1993. Although they were not at that time aware of the implications of its depth of submergence -- i.e. that it is at least 11,500 years old -- the 1991 study confirms that it is man-made and describes it as: a horse-shoe-shaped object, its height being one to two metres. A few stone blocks were found in the one-metre wide arm. The distance between the two arms in 20 metres. Whether the object is a shrine or some other man-made structure now at 23 metres [70 feet] depth remains to be examined in the next field season.

    The 1993 study refines the measurements: The structure of U-shape was located at a water depth of 23 metres which is about 5 kilometres off shore. The total peripheral length of the object is 85 metres while the distance between the two arms is 13 metres and the maximum height is 2 metres Divers observed growth of thick marine organism on the structure, but in some sections a few courses of masonry were noted

    After 1993, no further marine archaeology was conducted along the Poompuhar coast until 2001 when I arranged with the NIO to dive on the U-shaped structure with funding from Channel 4 television in Britain and the Learning Channel in the US. Exclusive footage of the structure was filmed and is shown in episode 2 of the Underworld television series. Chapter 14 of the book is a report of our dives at Poompuhar, and what we found there.

    Dr A.S. Gaur of the NIO told me on camera that it would have required "a very great technology" to build the U-shaped structure -- one far beyond the abilities of known cultures in India 11,500 years ago. For Dr Gaur this is a reason to doubt the accuracy of the sea-level-data which suggests that the structure was submerged so long ago. However the NIO have not yet been successful in recovering any datable materials or artefacts that could tell us its age more directly (for example by C-14 or TL tests).


    Quote During the 1930s, James Churchward made the legends of Lemuria known to the public after he studied the extensive myths of peoples living from India in the West to Hawai'i in the East.

    For example, the old Tamil Sangam tradition contradicts modern theories that the Tamils were driven into South India by invading Aryans. Tamil legend states that they came from a sunken continent somewhere south of India.

    Similar beliefs are dispersed throughout the equatorial Asia Pacific region.

    If Sundaland and nearby regions were as heavily populated in pre-Holocene times as some specialists believe, the rising sea levels must have cause massive migrations.

    Buckminster Fuller, a noted engineer and futurist, formulated a theory that the great voyages of the Malayo-Polynesian peoples were stimulated by whole populations losing their land to the sea.

    Fuller was followed by Thai ethnographer Sumet Jumsai who correlated a mass of beliefs along the Asian waterfront and the Pacific and theorized that they belonged to the migrating peoples of sunken Sundaland.

    The overall argument is rather reasonable. Although the drowning of Sundaland occurred over many thousands of years, during some periods sea levels rose rather drastically. The Holocene era saw such a dramatic rise.

    The experience of relatively large numbers of peoples driven from their homelands by rising seas would definitely leave a mark on the collective psyche and cultures of these peoples. The legend of Lemuria and sunken Sundaland
    Quote The megalithic complex at Gunungpadang in Java has features which recall the megalithic "Monument" at Yonagumi near Japan, and both could relate to a single original culture which existed in the Pleistocene (during the last great Ice Age). Both structures are in such ruin that it is difficult to figure their original appearance, but there are definite resembalances.
    Lemurian (Sundaland) Architecture






    And Japan


  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Aspen (17th March 2015), Octavusprime (19th February 2015), Violet (19th February 2015)

  9. Link to Post #45
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Recommended videos

    Gunung Padang Megalithic Site...great aerial view



    Quote Schoch was one of the first to suggest that the Sphinx was far older than Egyptologists thought, dating to around 7,000 BC or further back. He has recently been studying the archaeological site of Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, a series of around 20 magnificently carved stone circles. It would have been difficult to carve and move around these 10-15 ton blocks which are tall and thin, without breaking them, suggesting they had advanced skills, he noted.

    One excavator at the Gobekli site has estimated it dates back as far as 9,000 to 10,000 BC. Interestingly, Plato dated Atlantis to around 9600 BC which would correlate with the Gobekli timeline, Schoch pointed out, adding that there were likely intense solar flares at this time that heralded the end of the Ice Age. As shown in the work of Anthony Peratt, ancient petroglyphs may have depicted some of the intense solar plasma discharges.

    Schoch has also investigated Easter Island, which contains huge, mysterious megalithic statues.


    Dr Robert Schoch on Solar Radiation, The Last Iceage & Easter Island



    Michael Cremo





    This relates to the 3100 BC cometary swarm....
    Dwarka look at 14:24 concerning astronomic dating from Mahabarata.
    The date 3067 BC comes up in reference to comets and as the date of the war with the Pandyvas....


  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Aspen (17th March 2015), Octavusprime (19th February 2015)

  11. Link to Post #46
    Avalon Member Kindred's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th February 2011
    Location
    At Peace, within the Noise
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,109
    Thanks
    2,094
    Thanked 5,320 times in 994 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    For any examination of Earth's 'history', one needs to include Thiaoouba Prophecy... http://www.worldlibrariez.com/the-th...a-prophecy.pdf

    It will help fill in many of the narratives offered throughout this thread.

    That said, it is also important to note that All Probabilities Are Realized... there is NO 'one line path' of time, even in something as 'solid' as Earth. Many manifestations have taken place on, and in, this 'place', including other planets. All time is simultaneous, thus, it is not wise to point to one object and try and deduce it's 'history'.

    CONSCIOUSNESS CREATES MATTER... and it can manifest it at Any Time and Place - as well as OUT of 'Time and Place'.

    The Thiaooubans recognize these aspects of the Greater Reality, and have the knowledge and wisdom to work with them. Such a circumstance was pointed out in Seth Speaks; the Christ story is described on pages 166 and 167:

    "Others, finished with reincarnations and of a different overall nature, may begin the long journey leading toward the vocation of a creator. On a much different plane, this can be compared to geniuses in creative fields within you own physical reality. Instead of paints, pigments, words, musical notes, the creators begin to experiment with dimensions of actuality, imparting knowledge in as many forms as possible - and I do not mean physical forms. What you call time is manipulated as an artist would manipulate pigment. ...

    Art is created, then, using time - for example - as a structure.... Such a work would be perceived in your system as one thing, for example, but would also be perceived in probable realities, though perhaps in a different way - a multidimensional art, you see, so free and elemental that it would appear simultaneously in many realities. ...

    There are various kinds of multidimensional art, and therefore many levels in which the creators work. The whole Christ story was such a creation."

    ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE...

    In Unity, Peace and Love
    “A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.”
    - Gandalf (J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring)

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kindred For This Post:

    conk (19th October 2016), DeDukshyn (18th October 2016), Delight (19th February 2015)

  13. Link to Post #47
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Kindred (here)
    it is also important to note that All Probabilities Are Realized... there is NO 'one line path' of time, even in something as 'solid' as Earth. Many manifestations have taken place on, and in, this 'place', including other planets. All time is simultaneous, thus, it is not wise to point to one object and try and deduce it's 'history'.

    CONSCIOUSNESS CREATES MATTER... and it can manifest it at Any Time and Place - as well as OUT of 'Time and Place'.

    The Thiaooubans recognize these aspects of the Greater Reality, and have the knowledge and wisdom to work with them. Such a circumstance was pointed out in Seth Speaks; the Christ story is described on pages 166 and 167:

    "Others, finished with reincarnations and of a different overall nature, may begin the long journey leading toward the vocation of a creator. On a much different plane, this can be compared to geniuses in creative fields within you own physical reality. Instead of paints, pigments, words, musical notes, the creators begin to experiment with dimensions of actuality, imparting knowledge in as many forms as possible - and I do not mean physical forms. What you call time is manipulated as an artist would manipulate pigment. ...

    Art is created, then, using time - for example - as a structure.... Such a work would be perceived in your system as one thing, for example, but would also be perceived in probable realities, though perhaps in a different way - a multidimensional art, you see, so free and elemental that it would appear simultaneously in many realities. ...

    There are various kinds of multidimensional art, and therefore many levels in which the creators work. The whole Christ story was such a creation."

    ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE...
    Thank you for taking a look....Very helpful response. I will investigate.

    I have recently felt a response to a statement "If you wish to meet your ancestors, look in the mirror."
    Maybe I have been tracing my dream or creating an art piece????
    For whatever reason, I am fascinted by a story.....

    I "think" that being multidimensional includes great curiosity about a story of consciousness???


    Edit
    By the way, I think that Graham Hancock has deep passion and I do not always see "his story" the same way he seems to feel deeply angry at terrible events humans inflicted one to another (at least his words sound that way) but I appreciate him greatly and his work.
    Last edited by Delight; 19th February 2015 at 01:35.

  14. Link to Post #48
    Avalon Member Kindred's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th February 2011
    Location
    At Peace, within the Noise
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,109
    Thanks
    2,094
    Thanked 5,320 times in 994 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    I "think" that being multidimensional includes great curiosity about a story of consciousness???
    All there IS, is Consciousness. Consciousness manipulates the energy of the All That Is into multitudinous forms for the purpose of Experience in the development of it's creative talents.

    The Primary goal of Consciousness is this development of Conscious Creation throughout Infinity, for CREATION is NEVER COMPLETE. It is Always in a state of Becoming.

    In Unity, Peace and Love
    “A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.”
    - Gandalf (J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring)

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Kindred For This Post:

    Delight (19th February 2015)

  16. Link to Post #49
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    The thinking I have now is that "history" beginning with approximately 3100 BC is only the beginning of the latest "world" so when "biblical" research is involved, they can only imagine this latest incarnation.

    The creation of massive geoglyphs is one of the common elements that I see in the Atlantian culture. The serpent mound and giants...were the "Allegewi" descendents of Atlantis?

    Quote Why were geoglyphs designed? It would seem logical that these ancient civilizations had much more to be concerned with then giant works of art. Were they messages to their Gods? Possible since most appear to be best viewed from the sky or at great distances. Were they a remembrance of ancient times before them when flight was possible? Around the world there are references of great-lost knowledge and a powerful civilization, ancient even to those we now consider ancient. Atlantis perhaps? Is there a connection binding them we have yet to understand?

    New thought is finally emerging in the study of sacred, ancient mysteries and the way these stories appear to be repeating themselves. With thousands of amateur and professional archaeologists sharing discoveries online, similarities are being discovered in some Native American rock-art symbolism and that found in other parts of the world. This means ancient people from other cultures could have migrated here thousands of years ago (or vice versa). Atlantis & Ancient Civilizations: Ancient Geoglyphs
    Below is an interesting article.

    the-great-serpents-mound-of-ohio


    Quote Serpent Mound crater, also known as the Serpent Mound Disturbance,[1] is an eroded meteorite impact crater in Ohio, United States. It lies largely in Adams County, with the northern part mostly in Highland County, except for a small northeast part in Pike County.[2][3]

    It is classified as a complex crater because it features a central uplift, a transition zone, and a ring graben (a ring-shaped trough in the outer part of the crater). Although eroded, the original rim diameter has been estimated at 8 km (5.0 mi) and the age is estimated to be less than 320 million years (Mississippian or younger).[2] However, K.A. Milam argued that the maximum rim diameter might rather have been as much as 14 km (8.7 mi).[4]

    The crater is named after the Serpent Mound, an effigy mound, located on a plateau in Brush Creek Valley within the crater. European-American explorers had already noted the unusual terrain in the 19th century, and it is often speculated that the odd geological features inspired Native Americans to construct the mound at that location.Serpent Mound crater
    Quote The Great Serpent Mound is a 1,348-foot (411 m)-long,[2] three-foot-high prehistoric effigy mound located on a plateau of the Serpent Mound crater along Ohio Brush Creek in Adams County, Ohio. Maintained within a park by the Ohio Historical Society, it has been designated a National Historic Landmark by the United States Department of Interior. The Serpent Mound of Ohio was first reported from surveys by Ephraim Squire and Edwin Davis in their historic volume Ancient Monuments of the Mississippi Valley, published in 1848 by the newly founded Smithsonian Museum.

    Researchers have attributed construction of the mound to three different prehistoric indigenous cultures. Although it was once thought to be Adena in origin, now based on the use of more advanced technology, including carbon dating and evidence from 1996 studies, many scholars now believe that members of the Fort Ancient culture built it about 1070 CE (plus or minus 70 years). There are still anomalies to be studied.[3] Serpent Mound is the largest serpent effigy in the world.Serpent Mound[4]

    Nearest city: Peebles, Ohio
    Coordinates: 39°1′33.09″N 83°25′49.60″W / 39.0258583°N 83.4304444°W




    Quote John Heckewelder reported that Native Americans of the Lenni Lenape (later Delaware) nation told him the Allegheny people had built the mound, as they lived in the Ohio Valley in an ancient time. Both Lenape and Iroquois legends tell of the Allegheny or Allegewi People, sometimes called Tallegewi. They were said to have lived in the Ohio Valley in a remotely ancient period, believed pre-Adena, i.e., Archaic or pre-Woodland period (before 1200 BCE). Because archaeological evidence suggests that ancient cultures were distinct and separate from more recent historic Native American cultures, academic accounts do not propose the Allegheny Nation built the Serpent Mound.[6]
    Quote Delaware and the Sioux Indians Indians tell the story of the legends of Allegewi:
    The oral traditions of the Delaware and the Sioux Indians tell of a race of “great stature, but cowardly” with whom they entered into conflict. The Allegheny River and Mountains are named after
    the Allegewi, but the Iroquois Confederacy drove the giants out of their strong, walled cities, and the Sioux finished them off when they attempted to relocate in what is now Minnesota.
    Native Americans do not claim to be the builders of these structures. In 1870, an old Stockbridge Native American returned to the site of his ancestors for a visit and recounted the following tale. His people had gone west after “much wretchedness” living in the local area. He said his ancestors told his people that they had found these “stone huts” when they first arrived to these lands. They were not comfortable to his people, so they moved across the Ripowam to the high ground to live. Evidence shows that Northeast Native American tribes were not engaged in large scale stone building but did some work with stone and used the chambers for ritual purposes. Researcher Philip Imbrogno had a rare opportunity to spend three weeks with and interview the last living shaman of the Wappinger tribe. His name was “Onawan Tu” which in english translates to “he who walks with the spirits”. Onawan Tu recounted the following ancestral tale of who built the stone chambers. “Long, long ago my people lived in peace and prosperity. One day strange beings came from the direction of the rising sun. These beings were much taller than my people. My people greeted them as friends and they began to build the stone huts you call chambers. They would have huge fires around them and would be able to commune with “spirits” because these chambers stored energy and acted as doorways to the spirit world. It is said that the giant stones were moved by spirit power with a great wind. These beings were considered by my tribe to be messengers of the great spirit, they lived with my ancestors for a very long time. There was a great exchange of ideas and knowledge not only with our tribe but also with the Delaware, Algonquin and Huron people.”Delaware Indians speak of Giants
    Quote The 36th issue of that publication published an article by Steve Quayle, entitled "Giants and Ancient North American Warfare" which resurrects the Rev. John Heckewelder's antique reports about the so-called Allegewi. According to the Moravian missionary, Heckewelder (1743-1823): "Many wonderful things are told of this famous people. They are said to have been remarkably tall and stout, and there is a tradition that there were giants among them..." Exactly who these Allegewi were and how much credence may be put into Heckewelder's accounts of them, cannot at this late date be very well established. It may be significant, however, that Heckewelder was a Moravian and that the "Moravian Hospitality Tract" separated the lands sold by Solomon Spalding in Ohio from the lands he disposed of in adjacent Pennsylvania. Whether or not Spalding and Heckewelder ever met, Spalding may well have heard of the missionary's accounts of the ancient Allegewi. Up to this point Quayle's article provides some interesting possibilities. But, beyond this, the writer offers up his speculation about the Allegewi having been a "selected group" within the "late Adena" culture of "mound-builders," a sub-race produced by "selective breeding" for "the creation of a guardian or warrior class made up of physically superior men and women." The GIANTS of Conneaut
    Quote The Legend

    From Henry Schoolcraft, noted scholar on the subject, we have this reference to a most antique and mysterious tribe or nation:

    The oldest tribe of the United States, of which there is a distinct tradition, were the Alleghans. The term is perpetuated in the principal chain of mountains traversing the country. This tribe, at an antique period, had the seat of their power in the Ohio valley and its confluent streams, which were the sites of their numerous towns and villages. They appear originally to have borne the name of Alli, or Alleg, and hence the names of Talligewi and Allegewi. By adding to the radical of this word the particle hany or ghany, meaning river, they described the principal scene of their residence—namely, the Alleghany, or River of the Alleghans, now called Ohio. The word Ohio is of Iroquois origin, and of a far later period; having been bestowed by them after their conquest of the country, in alliance with the Lenapees, or ancient Delawares. (Phi. Trans.) The term was applied to the entire river, from its confluence with the Mississippi, to its origin in the broad spurs of the Alleghanies, in New York and Pennsylvania; and the designation, to its sources, is still continued in use by that people.

    From the traditions of the Lenapees, given to the Moravian missionaries, while the lamp of their traditionary history still threw out its flickering but enlivening flames, the Alleghans had been a strong and mighty people, capable of great exertions and doing wonders.

    Schoolcraft, referring to the entire Appalachian chain as the Alleghenies, is believed to have secured his information specifically from the writings of John Heckewelder, assistant to the Moravian missionary David Zeisberger, himself from Moravia. Together Zeisberger and Heckewelder founded the town of Shoenbrun, near present day New Philadelphia, Ohio. They successfully converted as many as 400 Delaware to the Christian faith through peaceful persuasion, doubtless making many close allies during the work. Heckewelder’s account may not be the only one concerning prehistoric America, but it is surely reliable for the conveyance of the tradition of the Delaware, who were derived, however indirectly, of the venerable Lenni Lenape.

    John Heckewelder
    John Heckewelder

    Heckewelder writes regarding the Allegewi:

    Many wonderful things are told of this famous people. They are said to have been remarkably tall and stout, and there is a tradition that there were giants among them, people of a much larger size than the tallest of the Lenape.

    Many centuries ago, the Lenni Lenape, for some undisclosed reason, moved en masse from the western half of the present day United States, toward the east. As the legend goes, these people found themselves at the shore of the Mississippi—the white man’s enunciation of their Namesi Sipu, River of Fish. There they met up with the Mengwe, who had come from a bit further north and closer to the source of the Namesi Sipu, perhaps the present-day Missouri. It was a meeting of destiny, and was, at that time, a peaceful one. The Lenape sent out their scouts across the broad current.

    James A. Jones, another writer of the time, relates of the occasion of the safe return of these “spies” for the Lenape, having reconnoitered the eastern side of the Mississippi:

    They told, that they had found the further bank of the River of Fish inhabited by a very powerful people, who dwelt in great villages, surrounded by high walls. They were very tall—so tall that the head of the tallest Lenape could not reach their arms, and their women were of higher stature and heavier limbs than the loftiest and largest man in the confederate nations. They were called the Allegewi, and were men delighting in red and black paint, and the shrill war-whoop, and the strife of the spear. Such was the relation made by the spies to their countrymen.

    The legend moves very quickly then. In the words of Heckewelder:

    … They sent a message to the Allegewi to request permission to settle themselves in their neighborhood. This was refused them, but they obtained leave to pass through the country and seek a settlement farther to the eastward. They accordingly began to cross the Namesi Sipu, when the Allegewi, seeing that their numbers were so great, and in fact they consisted of many thousands, made a furious attack on those that had crossed, threatening them all with destruction, if they dared persist in coming over to their side of the river. Fired at the treachery of these people, and the great loss of men they had sustained, and besides, not being prepared for a conflict, the Lenape consulted on what was to be done; whether to retreat in the best manner they could, or try their strength, and let the enemy see they were not cowards.

    While one should always be aware that history as related by the victorious side may not be history as it actually occurred, never the less the resultant war is related as eventually becoming an overwhelming loss for the Alleghans. Whether the Lenape were considered deceitful in not disclosing their vast hoard is perhaps irrelevant. While one account says the Allegewi were extirpated, another relates of their escape down the Mississippi. The Lenni Lenape, having made an alliance with the Mengwe, took many years, and through a great loss of people, claim to have finally defeated the Alleghans through force of arms. As noted again later, these Mengwe followed after the Lenape in war, staying back to avoid injury as much as they might. Perhaps this was on account of their agreement, that upon the defeat of the Alleghany people, the Lenni Lenape would take for themselves the heartland of their adversaries, while the Mengwe would be awarded the lands to the north, nearer to the Great Lakes, and the latitude whence they came.

    As the legend completes itself, the two triumphant tribes lived together in peace and cooperation for many centuries. But having done this, it is related that the lands to the east were found to be uninhabited by any enemies, and that they were rich and beautiful, the destiny of the Great Spirit for the people. On this account, they ultimately moved eastward, leaving again the Ohio country comparatively vacant.

    The settlements of the Middle Adena correspond precisely to Heckewelder's accounts of the prehistoric Lenni Lenape
    The settlements of the “Middle Adena” correspond precisely to Heckewelder’s accounts of the prehistoric Lenni Lenape.

    Out of these ancient people of the Lenape (who are assumed to have bred with the Mengwe only to a lesser extent at the beginning), no less than 40 tribes are said thereafter to have arisen. In hindsight, not only would this have required a great number of generations, but also it may explain the difficulty in DNA pattern matching with an ancestral people living millennia before. As for the Mengwe, their destiny as the Iroquois is well known, being that of the Confederation of the Five Tribes, and then the Tuscorora. Later of course, the Lenni Lenape, as the Delaware, became bitter enemies with the Iroquois.

    David Cusick, a Tuscorora by birth, writes in 1825 that among the legends of the people of the ancient stock, there was a powerful tribe called Ronnongwetowanca. They were giants, and had a “considerable habitation.” He says that when the Great Spirit made the people, some of them became giants. The giants were said to have had a “silly” mode of attack, waiting until their intended victim was not expecting anything. After a time, and having endured the outrages of these giants, it is said that the people banded together, and through the final force of about 800 warriors, successfully annihilated the abhorrent Ronnongwetowanca. After that, it was said that there were no giants anywhere. This was supposed to have happened around 2,500 winters before Columbus discovered America, i.e., around 1000 B.C.E.—the time that the Adena seem to have arrived in the Ohio Valley.

    There appear to be coincidental links, combining legend and archaeology, between the possible existence of a great nation having giants among their people, their struggle in war, and the beginning time of the Adena in the Ohio Valley.




    It is no great stretch to reason the possibility that mound construction, especially mortuary, was not necessarily transferred to the Ohio region from the southeast region. In point of view, there may be logic in it.

    Heckewelder writes:

    Having thus united their forces, the Lenape and Mengwe declared war against the Allegewi. And great battles were fought, in which many warriors fell on both sides … An engagement took place in which hundreds fell, who were afterwards buried in holes or laid together in heaps and covered over with earth.

    Such an after-battle chore would be the warriors’ choice. Mound building of this type is as ancient a practice as can be imagined. It was not only clean, but was practical, and probably respectable as well.

    Then from where the Mengwe are thought to have come before they joined the Lenni Lenape, i.e., from the region of the Mississippi’s source confluence at the Dakota Missouri, we have this, originally entitled “A Prehistoric Cemetery:”

    Two miles from Mandan, on the bluffs near the junction of the Hart and Missouri Rivers, says the local newspaper, the Pioneer, is an old cemetery of fully 100 acres in extent filled with bones of a giant race. This vast city of the dead lies just east of the Fort Lincoln road. The ground has the appearance of having been filled with trenches piled full of dead bodies, both man and beast, and covered with several feet of earth. In many places mounds from 8 to 10 feet high, and some of them 100 feet or more in length, have been thrown up and are filled with bones, broken pottery, vases of various bright colored flint, and agates. The pottery is of a dark material, beautifully decorated, delicate in finish, and as light as wood, showing the work of a people skilled in the arts and possessed of a high state of civilization. This has evidently been a grand battlefield, where thousands of men … have fallen. Nothing like a systematic or intelligent exploration has been made, as only little holes two or three feet in depth have been dug in some of the mounds, but many parts of the anatomy of man and beast, and beautiful specimens of broken pottery and other curiosities, have been found in these feeble efforts at excavation. Five miles above Mandan, on the opposite side of the Missouri, is another vast cemetery, as yet unexplored. We asked an aged Indian what his people knew of these ancient graveyards. He answered: “Me know nothing about them. They were here before the red man.”

    Mounds wherein the dead were placed and covered with earth to avoid open decay and the diseases associated with it are as easy to accept as yesterday’s news. This is a possible explanation for the origin of mounds for the honored dead—the slain heroes and men sacrificed in discharging the dreadful arts of war. Through the eyes of the participant warriors, such a battlefield practice may have served as a fitting memorial, reminding them of their struggles. Later, it could have been re-enacted in quieter surroundings by the Adena. Such mounds or cemeteries as quoted above, holding the remains of people of above average stature, even giants, possibly pushes the practice of moundbuilding back into an undisclosed period of prehistory.

    The inclusion of broken pottery in the above mound is similar to the Adena practice of placing broken pottery in the fill of their mounds (Dragoo, Mounds For the Dead, 1963, p.246). Could this be symbolic of the soul’s “vessel” being broken? Because Webb and Snow (Adena People, 1981 p.314-15) are emphatic that the Adena showed no signs of being engaged in any warfare practice at all, one might assume that the practice was pre-Adena, re-enacted to become as tradition by them.

    From History of Huron and Erie Counties (Ohio), we also have this excerpt recorded by W.W. Williams in 1879:

    In the township of Milan there were three clearly-defined [sic] fortifications when the first settlers came into the country, and they are still not entirely leveled by the plowshare. All three were upon the high banks of the Huron …

    F. W. Fowler, one of the pioneers of Milan, describes these earth-works [sic], as first seen by him, to have been from two to four feet above the surface of the ground. Large trees were growing upon some of these embankments. Near these forts were mounds or hillocks, which were found to contain human bones, promiscuously thrown together, as if a large number of bodies had been buried at one time. The skull bones, when found entire, were shown by measurement to be larger, upon the average, than those of the present race, and all exhibited marks that would indicate that life had been taken in deadly combat. Scattered among the skulls and vertebrae, and arm and leg bones, were stone pipes and fragments of burnt clay.

    Could these earthworks and remains have been slightly pre-Adena? The accounts of the Alleghany say that they built strong fortifications. Although the above notices offer some beginning evidence for earlier mounds, according to the twentieth-century archaeological investigations, the Adena seem to have started the practice of moundbuilding for the dead. Curiously, the Adena had “tall members” among their people, extraordinarily tall in fact—and massive in skeletal structure—exactly the way the Allegewi were first described. This however does not mean that the Allegewi were the Adena, for there is no sign that the Adena were makers or recipients of war. This may be important to remember.

    Unlike the Allegewi, and in accord with the statistics of Webb and Snow, in the majority of Adena skeletons cataloged, the average height of a man was considerably less than six feet (168.0 cm or about 5’6″), and the women were proportionally smaller (158.8 cm or about 5’3″). But there were also numbers of burials catering to a special class of individuals, wherein the skeletal length of six feet was not uncommon. So while on one hand relatively fewer tall skeletons were discovered by academic archaeological efforts in the last century, on the other enough were found to give rise to special theories concerning these people. Most Adena folk were apparently cremated.

    Don Dragoo, in discussing these “honored dead” and referring to this taller Adena stature, says in his Mounds For the Dead:

    Two outstanding traits have been noted repeatedly for this group. One is the protruding and massive chin often with prominent bilateral protrusions (Webb and Snow, 1959, p. 37). The second trait is the large size of many of the males and some of the females. A male of six feet was common and some individuals approaching seven feet in height have been found … Not only were these Adena people tall, but also the massiveness of the bones indicates powerfully built individuals. The head was generally big with a large cranial capacity.

    “Massive in skeletal structure” perhaps reflects the term “stout” used by Heckewelder. These observances were in the late Adena tombs, and although the earlier Adena graves yielded far fewer measurable remains, large skulls were also discovered among those graves. Webb and Snow suggested the possibility of “sexual and social selection” being factors in the development of the large-chinned Adena type. Thus it is of course generally interpreted that these people possibly bred selectively.

    Dragoo agrees, adding:

    If only certain … individuals of the total population were members of the “selected group,” genetic factors would also have played an important part in the establishment of the unique Adena physical type found in the late Adena tombs. Any changes (mutations) in the gene pool either dominant or recessive would soon be distributed among all the members of the group.

    Dragoo, Mounds For the Dead

    It would make sense that such selective breeding would be assiduously practiced, and for several good reasons. The main purpose could have been the creation of a guardian or warrior class made up of physically superior men and women. With any luck, these people would also have an above average intellectual capacity as well. But did the genetic traits for larger, more powerful human beings commence with the Adena? The grave evidence does not suggest it. It would be most difficult to attempt such a selective genetic process if all you had to start with were a handful of unfortunate people owning the conditions of acromegaly and gigantism.

    Thus it would seem that these Adena folk already had among their race a very rare ancestral lineage and line of descent. They had, in other words, people of pedigree. Studies have also indicated that, as in the case of the Adena, when a people settle down and have a good nutritional food supply, they grow larger and stronger.

    .........
    How ancient were the Allegewi? Did the practice of funerary moundbuilding stem from the post war necessity of quick physical interment? Were the “honored dead” buried in the tradition of the warrior class, in the non-cremation style, after the practice of mass mound-graves following great battles? Were the taller, perhaps more accomplished members of the Adena given special rank and privilege? Why did these giants show up with greater distinction in the later Adena burials? How long would it have taken the Adena to build a new tradition from Allegewi stock?
    A Tradition of Giants

    In Silverberg’s words, Heckewelder’s reference to the Allegewi as giants “touched off a search for a race of giant mound builders in the Ohio Valley.”

    Indeed, the pioneering whites and their descendents enthusiastically performed their own examination of the uncounted mound-tombs, leaving relatively few for the archaeologists some years later. Stretching in large part from Pennsylvania to Indiana, the sheer number of raised earthen and stone works boggled the imagination. Upon life’s end, some Adena would be interred right into the floor of their home, the whole covered with earth, making little clusters of mounds at intervals throughout the countryside, preserving the sites of their former hamlets. As it turned out, there were many extra-large skeletons reported in the various records of townships and counties, all independent of one another. Whether Heckewelder and others touched off this search may be irrelevant, because it was virtually irresistible for these early settlers to look inside these ancient earthworks—located in their “back 40″ as it were.

    Being mostly of Euro-Celtic decent, these pioneering-types enjoyed comparing the giant jawbones of the skulls they found with their own. Says Dragoo:

    One of the peculiar features present in at least one-half of the observed examples is the great width of the bony chin formed by bilateral eminences rarely found among the skulls of the much earlier Shell Heap People or among the later Hopewell People.

    ..........

    The graves were, distinguished by slight depressions in the surface of the earth, disposed in straight rows, which, with intervening spaces or valleys, covered the entire area. The number of these graves has been estimated to be between two and three thousand. Aaron Wright, Esq., in 1800, made a careful examination of these depressions, and found them invariably to contain human bones blackened with time, which upon exposure to the air soon crumbled to dust. Some of these bones were of unusual size, and evidently belonged to a race allied to giants. Skulls were taken from these mounds, the cavities of which were of sufficient capacity to admit the head of an ordinary man, and jaw-bones [sic] that might be fitted over the face with equal facility. The bones of the upper and lower extremities were of corresponding size.

    Certainly there was more curiosity than hysteria among the early settlers however, leading to the conclusion of there being less of a competitive spirit to prove the existence of a lost and superior race. Besides, a fortunate number of mounds were left untouched, possibly because they seemed less interesting, but perhaps through wise foresight. The accounts all seem quite honest and matter-of-fact, some writers not bothering to report the exact lengths of skeletal remains (were it possible). Convinced perhaps that the giant race was a well-established aspect of prehistory for the region, the post-Revolutionary War people took it for granted that the larger stature was commonplace enough to take the bones in stride. Only a few scholarly measures were taken toward the preservation of sites and contents, reflecting such an attitude.

    .........

    Brush Creek Tablet
    The now lost Brush Creek Tablet was found among skeletons measuring over 8 and 9 feet in length in Brush Creek Township, Muskigum County, Ohio, in the early 1880s.



    At the bottom of the three-page account, the signature of six citizens was affixed
    in an affidavit verifying the truth, correctness, and non-deviation from the facts. It is quite possible that these people reported on something a bit rarer than ever expected. The mounded structure was possibly Archaic Alleghany. If a tradition of giants existed among these ancient people, surely a firm genetic base in people of more than seven feet in height would occasionally produce even taller members.

    Needless to say, it is for reasons as the described indifference between the property owners and the archaeologists that discoveries of the remains of giant human beings in North America are questionable to seated academics. This may be especially true currently among those who have never engaged in a more thoughtful reading of the exponents of Adena analysis, especially the summations of Dragoo. The scientific community today has its own tradition fraught with skepticism, academic disapproval, and outright dismissal of the old citizenry’s accounts. A part of the problem may be wrapped up in the politics and policies of the anthropological and archaeological communities. Credibility is always a point of vital interest. Few who bear degrees and use their letters as levers in their theories will step off the beaten path into “alternative” areas of research.

    Never the less, gigantic stature among men and women has been known since the beginnings of recorded history, the Bible’s Genesisitself relating of giants. They’re referred to as “sons of God,” and “men of renown.” This seems to echo the words of Schoolcraft referring to the Allegewi as “a strong and mighty people, capable of great exertions and doing wonders.” The Greeks have extensive mythological accounts of such people owning a grand stature as well. They were often held as a reclusive race, perhaps for self-preservation, whose lineage went back to a time of great antiquity, perhaps prior to the last Ice Age.

    The odd thing about large men, however, is that in ancient times of warfare, they were the ones selected first—often the “champions” of kings. This practice of taking the big men first is believed to have systematically depleted the gene pool among the older European, Asian, and Middle Eastern stocks, reducing the average height of modern man to something less than it could possibly have been. David slew Goliath, and it was part of a pattern. Could this have been the fate of the Allegewi big men in defense of their homeland against the Lenape-Mengwe?

    Heckewelder indeed said that there was a tradition that there were giants among the Allegewi. Tradition is consciously passed down from time to time, generation to generation. Is it coincidence that there was an apparent tradition of giants among the Adena? If one were to conspire to weave legend with archaeology, there are a number of coincidences possibly equating the early Adena with the ancient Allegewi, indirectly at least. The Lenni Lenape seem to be intimately involved, for it is from them that we have the story.
    Weaving Legend and Science

    Did the Adena simply wander into the Ohio Valley or were they already here, genetically at least, in the form of a race with very dominant genetic traits? Did a severely compromised Archaic Lenape interbreed with the remaining Alleghany inhabitants of the region, in effect continuing the strong characteristic breed of the former Allegewi race, giving rise to the Adena? Were some of the disinterred giant humans representative of actual Allegewi?

    It is tempting, in other words, to demonstrate a philosophical matching between transmitted history and hard facts, creating a sort of weave to hold them together. Like the making of a belt of wampum, such a weave may have a practical as well as ornamental purpose.

    To start, here are a few additional accounts of giant skeletons found in the 19th century, both in and out of the state of Ohio. This first refers the general character of the human remains found in Logan County, Illinois:

    It is sometimes difficult to distinguish the places of sepulture raised by the Mound-Builders from the more modern graves of the Indians. The tombs of the former were in general larger than those of the latter, and were used as receptacles for a greater number of bodies, and contained relics of art, evincing a higher degree of civilization than that attained by the Indians. The ancient earth-works of the Mound-Builders have occasionally been appropriated as burial places by the Indians, but the skeletons of the latter may be distinguished from the osteological remains of the former by their greater stature.

    History of Logan County, Illinois, 1886

    Similarly this next one from Vermillion Township, Erie County, Ohio:

    There are quite a number of mounds, in the township, where the bones, and sometimes the whole skeleton of the human race have been found. The bones and skeletons found are very large, and some of the inhabitants think they must have belonged to a race of beings much larger in size than the Indians found here by the first settlers.

    Firelands Pioneer, 1858

    In 1829, when the hotel was built in Chesterville, a mound near by was made to furnish the material for the brick. In digging it away, a large human skeleton was found, but no measurements were made. It is related that the jaw-bone was found to fit easily over that of a citizen of the village, who was remarkable for his large jaw. The local physicians examined the cranium and found it proportionately large, with more teeth than the white race of today. The skeleton was taken to Mansfield, and has been lost sight of entirely.

    History of Morrow County and Ohio, 1880

    In digging the cellar of the house, nine human skeletons were found, and, like such specimens from other ancient mounds of the country, they showed that the Mound Builders were men of large stature. The skeletons were not found lying in such a manner as would indicate any arrangement of the bodies on the part of the entombers. In describing the tomb, Mr. Albert Harris said: “It looked as if the bodies had been dumped into a ditch. Some of them were buried deeper than others, the lower one being about seven feet below the surface. When the skeletons were found, Mr. Harris was twenty years of age, yet he states that he could put one of the skulls over his head, and let it rest upon his shoulders, while wearing a fur cap at the same time. The large size of all the bones was remarked, and the teeth were described as “double all the way round.”

    The History of Medina County, 1881

    On the Wappatomaka have been found numerous Indian relics, among which was highly a finished pipe, representing a snake coiled around the bowl. There was also discovered the under jaw-bone of a human being (says Kercheval) of great size, which contained eight jaw-teeth in each side, of enormous size; and, what is more remarkable the teeth stood transversely in the jaw-bone. It would pass over any man’s face with entire ease.

    Historical Collections of Virginia, 1845

    There are many more suchlike accounts, and all will be published in a book with a title similar to this article.

    Could the ancient ancestors of the Lenni Lenape have taken over the lands of the Allegewi, then intermarried with the former subjects of the Allegewi hierarchy, producing the Adena—but with an added twist? That twist would ask whether some of the select Allegewi women were spared of the supposed genocide, becoming participants, willing or not, for the procreation of what was to become the “tall members” of the Adena? Were any alliances made in the course of the long war that allowed a taller Allegewi male to live on? Were the Adena people themselves the result of a “fusion” or commingling of two or even three separate and distinct cultures?

    Heckewelder writes:

    The war that was carried on with this nation, lasted many years, during which the Lenape lost a great number of their warriors, while the Mengwe would always hang back in the rear, leaving them to face the enemy.

    The loss of that many men may very well have inhibited their ability to reestablish a new and thriving generation quickly, and so perhaps the surviving members of the Allegewi, taking the Lenape as their new masters, shared not only their lands, but themselves as well. This might help to explain the strong physical type of those later Adena found preserved in mounds, if the Adena also developed a ceremonial system of selective breeding—even as the Alleghans were supposed to have done. In this, the stronger, more dominant Allegewi gene type may have survived the annihilation of the Allegewi themselves, becoming the children of their conquerors.

    The romantic James A. Jones relates how, on the eve of the first armed encounter with the Allegewi, the strong love of a man of the Lenni Lenape for a beautiful maiden of the Allegewi was born:

    It was night; the bands of the confederate nations were sleeping in their cabins, dreaming dreams of victory and glory, when Wangewaha, or the Hard Heart, sleeping in his tent, was aroused by the tread of a light foot on the earth at his side, and a voice sweeter than that of the linnet or the thrush. Looking up he saw, by the beams of the moon, a tall and beautiful woman, straight as a hickory, and graceful as a young antelope. She wore over her shoulders a cloak made of the tender bark of the mulberry, interlaced with the white feathers of the swan, and the gay plumage of the snake bird and the painted vulture. Wangewaha started from his sleep, for he knew her to be the beautiful maiden whom he had seen in his dream, ere he quitted the land of his father’s bones—the shape tall and erect, the eye black and sparkling, the foot small and swift, the teeth white and even, the glossy dark hair, and the small plump hand.

    The warrior (whose callus name, infers Jones, could have been changed at the sight of the tall beauty), listened to her story of how she was being made to marry one she could never love. Wengewaha, after consoling the young woman, bade her to spend the remainder of the night with his sister, who was nearby.

    But the passion of love arose in the warrior’s heart, and he determined that, if the Great Spirit should give him victory in the approaching contest, the beautiful maiden should become his wife.

    Thus is related the story of the Lenape commingling romantically with the Allegewi. Cusick carries out this understanding of the mixing of giants with folk of lesser stature—only reversing the sexes. He relates the story of a giant abducting the daughter of a noble chieftain. Her brothers search for her, and are taken unaware when they find she has fallen in love with the giant, becoming uninterested in returning to her family. Interestingly, there is biblical reference to such relations between giants and people of smaller physical type:

    And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

    That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Genesis 6:1-2

    The possibility of the Allegewi having passed on their “tradition” of giants may not be far fetched at all, especially in the understanding that the Lenape folk, in crossing over the Mississippi, likely did so with their woman and children, not suspecting an attack. In the course of the Great War, would it not have been feasible that the Allegewi, as likewise the Lenape, took to themselves, at any given opportunity, the desirable womenfolk of their adversaries? Hence would come an explanation for the selected taller members of the Adena, especially among the later Adena, when enough time had passed to refine the mating ritual of the elite stock. For these children, after all, would have been in the direct lineage of they that had so bravely risked their lives in the defeat the Alleghany warriors.
    Adena Fate, Hopewell Destiny

    Heckewelder writes:

    In the end, the conquerors divided the country between themselves; the Mengwe made choice of the lands in the vicinity of the great lakes, and on their tributary streams, and the Lenape took possession of the country to the south.

    So the Mengwe (later Iroquois) took the lands north, and, as we may assume from the account, the Lenape took for their own the Ohio Valley with all its tributaries and streams. In this might we not assume the new masters of the Ohio Valley inherited not only the possessions of the Allegewi, but their lore of the region’s natural resources as well? Being prompted and educated by the extant inhabitants, would they not have quickly developed the supposedly unique arts and crafts of the “Adena?” Unfortunately we cannot discern a possible Allegewi trinket from an Adena one, for if the ancient post war scenario resembled anything like what the white settlers enacted, that would explain less evidence for any perceivable Alleghany legacy.

    Heckewelder also notes that many of the Lenape people stayed back on the western shores of the Namesi Sipu, being frightened by the fierce reception of the Allegewi. This might explain the presence of only the stronger and more necessarily hierarchical “Mexican” traditions being applied at the onset of the Adena culture, if they came along at all. That, combined with the possibility of a diminished number of men, and the probable non-admittance of the northern Mengwe in their new local politics, could have manifested itself in the difficult-to-explain origins of the Adena with their skeletal type. But then, as the peace extended itself, and more of the formally diffident Lenape cultural messengers arrived and took root in the region from west of the Mississippi, the effect could have been more of the “missing” Mexican traits appearing in the later tombs. At the same time, and as the old Lenape tradition asserted itself more and more, the stronger diagnostic traits of the early Adena, rich in the possible spoils of the great war, would have exited, leaving evolved and improved versions to be associated with the emerging Hopewell.



    But what became of the Adena? Were they indeed forced out by the Hopewell? In this, Heckewelder recounts this interesting bit of information:
    Says Dragoo:

    Ritchie’s extensive archaeological studies in the Northeast indicate Adena influence also spread into that region (Ritchie and Dragoo, 1960 p.26-62). Although some Adena traits may have filtered into New York state [sic] from the upper Ohio Valley earlier in Adena, the majority of traits appear similar to those of the late Maryland and Delaware Adena sites. The distribution of Adena materials along the east coast and in the Northeast also indicates that there may have been a migration route from Chesapeake Bay to Delaware Bay, then northward via the Delaware River into New Jersey and beyond. Some Adena peoples also may have moved from the Chesapeake Bay area up the Susquehanna River into New York.

    He then adds that in he and his colleague’s opinion, it is more than coincidental that the extensions of these ancient folk occurred about the same time—the time of the middle Adena period. He goes on to say that the presence of artifacts in these outlying areas cannot be considered the result of “the wandering of traders in search of new markets or raw materials.” He then asks the question of why groups of Adena people would find it a necessity to leave their homeland in the Ohio Valley.

    Was the later Hopewell, after the loss of the Adena type to migration, dominantly composed of the northern Mengwe ancestral stock? In the words of Dragoo in his summations of Webb and Snow:

    The traits shared by Adena and Hopewell were those already present in late Adena and donated by Adena to the new Hopewell culture which formed after the contact of Adena peoples with a long-headed population which had lived north of the area of Adena occupation.

    Since Heckewelder’s accounts preceded even the broader knowledge of the Ohio Valley mounds, we may have a series of clues to begin to help answer our better investigators’ questions concerning these mysteries of the Adena. The time of a supposed entry in the Ohio Valley, followed by a few centuries of settlement (middle Adena) and the subsequent movement eastward—virtually identical to Heckewelder’s descriptions—may be valuable considerations in the now centuries long inquiry embodying the mystery of the Adena. A possible movement southward by the Mengwe only reinforces the understanding that the Adena, having recognized themselves as physically and ancestrally different from the Mengwe, chose to move on eastward, maintaining their stock for awhile.
    A Tradition of Giants: More Questions Than Answers
    Quote in ancient times of warfare, they were the ones selected first-often the "champions" of kings. This practice of taking the big men first is believed to have systematically depleted the gene pool among the older European, Asian, and Middle Eastern stocks, reducing the average height of modern man to something less than it could possibly have been. David slew Goliath, and it was part of a pattern. Could this have been the fate of the Allegewi big men in defense of their homeland against the Lenape-Mengwe?

    Heckewelder indeed said that there was a tradition that there were giants among the Allegewi. Tradition is consciously passed down from time to time, generation to generation. Is it coincidence that there was an apparent tradition of giants among the Adena? If one were to conspire to weave legend with archaeology, there are a number of coincidences possibly equating the early Adena with the ancient Allegewi, indirectly at least. The Lenni Lenape seem to be intimately involved, for it is from them that we have the story.Giants and Ancient North American Warfare
    I am reposting this video link with Fritz Zimmerman....

    http://youtu.be/JC-Fa7Uy7vI

    Quote the mysterious world of the Allegewi Hopewell mound builders from 1000 B.C. - 500 A.D. Two-hundred-twenty-two mound and earthworks sites have been photographed, with directions provided in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia and Michigan. The Guide is the result of physically exploring over 700 burial mound and earthwork sites in the Ohio Valley and Great Lakes Region.Zimmerman's second book, The Nephilim Chronicles: Fallen Angels in the Ohio Valley, leads readers on an ancient journey from the Levant to the British Isles to the Ohio Valley, where the remains of giant human skeletons have been documented. It includes the historical accounts of over 300 giant skeletons that have been discovered within burial mounds and subsurface tombs. The accounted giants in the Bible, known as the Amorites have not only left their physical remains, but have have left an indelible mark across the landscapes of the British Isles and the Ohio Valley with their conical burial mounds and open air solar and celestial temples known as henges. The most historical reports of giant skeletons http://gianthumanskeletons.blogspot.com/

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Lefty Dave (16th March 2015)

  18. Link to Post #50
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Here are my latest assumptions

    1. In the remote past, there was a truly global consciousness civilization

    2. In the near past, catastrophe destroyed the global network in some way. the conscious sense of being integrated as a whole of earth is not any longer the "default" mind set.. This has set back "mankind" with connection narrowed. We have fractured into local conern, myopic relating and we are recovering. The break down to tribal consciousness with concern for at most family (race), village, city, state, country is still the default. To embrace a consciousness as part of our whole (whole including ALL beings) globe is encountering our DEEP fear.

    WE ARE RECOVERING OUR SELF AS PLANETARY BEING. This is being assisted by ability to see some things from the past...like geoglyphs relating a technology of scale that is whole world.

    The relationships between communities South and North, East and West are fascinating. Geoglyphology, An Ancient Science Rediscoveredis a new approach linking the landscape art and science of Consciously Planetary People.

    Quote Over the past several years The Faram Foundation has been involved in the research and development of a new and emerging science. That science has been named Geoglyphology. You will realize as you scan through the website that this science has the power to rewrite history, as we know it. During our research it was discovered that down through time civilizations have secretly passed down a legacy of geoglyphs on the shores and highlands of land masses around the world. A well known example of this is the Nazca Lines in Peru. The reason the Nazca lines and other geoglyphs were not discovered until recently is that they are too large to be seen from the ground. And so it is with most geoglyphs.

    Until now the majority of the information available to the Archeologist is gleaned from the information recovered at the dig site. We discovered that a great majority of the ancient architectural, monolithic and geoglyphic structures built around the world had something in common. That commonality is that the structures were aligned in such a manner that the study of their linear alignment unveils a much larger story and immensely expands the data available to the archeologist and the related disciplines.

    Extensive research on these geoglyphs, which exist on every continent and many islands around the world, have shown that, no matter when or where they were constructed, they all tie into a worldwide network of civilizations that have progressed, prospered and suffered setbacks for millennia. These geoglyphs range in age from the 10,000 year old Yonaguni Pyramid in Japan, to the 250 year old streets of Washington, DC USA.

    Data recovered from these studies includes obtaining the geographical range of the culture being studied, the level of sophistication that existed in relation to their understanding of mathematics and geometry, their knowledge of world geography, the discovery of other archeological sites that were unknown prior to the studies, and the dating of the culture itself by the data collected at the offsite locations and the sophistication of the geoglyphs identified at the dig site. Earth's International Research Society

    For instance here rock art

    "Aztec Chieftain Stone Image From Mexico"


    "Mayan Head Gear"


    Where would these geoglyphs be located if one guesses by appearance? Did you know this is in Medicine Hat Canada






  19. Link to Post #51
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    20th November 2012
    Location
    gone
    Age
    40
    Posts
    4,873
    Thanks
    15,814
    Thanked 18,722 times in 4,284 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Please check out page 50 of the book "Mysteries of the Unexplained"
    1982 Reader;s Digest, explains wonderfully how advanced was the astromomy of the Dogon people.

    I tried twice to post, typing out 4 paragraphs but something or someone is happening to my connection today.
    I apologize.
    Here is an Open Library link to the book if you have an account:

    https://openlibrary.org/books/OL3509...he_unexplained

    I need to get Skype or something so this backspace thing stops happening.
    On my old computer there was a virus that really interrupted longer posts.
    I got a new Dell and now the same thing is happening,
    my mouse selects an area outside the posting box and then the browser backspaces away from the content I'm writing. Doh!

    Time for youtube right? lol

  20. Link to Post #52
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th January 2011
    Location
    North Texas
    Language
    English
    Age
    76
    Posts
    28,581
    Thanks
    30,501
    Thanked 138,435 times in 21,490 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    I have been fascinated by the Cave at Tayos story and adventurers like Stan Hall and the golden tablets of Padre Crespi and the language written on these and other ancient artifacts. The idea that South America is the repository of Ancient wisdom from "Atlantis" is tantalizing.
    There is a significant update on the current state of the Crespi artifacts, including a number of images of the remaining artifacts still stored in the Central Bank of Ecuador’s storage rooms, at The Truth About Father Crespi and His Missing Artifacts Finally Revealed, by April Holloway (Ancient-Origins.net).
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

  21. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ThePythonicCow For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (11th March 2016), DNA (18th May 2016), Foxie Loxie (19th October 2016), PurpleLama (11th March 2016), sunflower (21st March 2016)

  22. Link to Post #53
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    ...
    Taking an overall overview of what’s going on, on earth, and comparing it to what went on in those days and there isn’t much difference whether it’s one’s fight for sovereignty against an “elite” which considers anyone else soulless useless eater slaves/cattle/sheeple, genetic engineering or the ceaseless race to increasing destructive power in order to enslave rather than help…

    Most of the concerns debated on Avalon have a root resonance to what occurred in those days, one way or another.

    So that, for all intents and purposes, it does indeed seem that Atlantis has arisen from its watery grave and hot volcanic ashes.


    Edgar Cayce on Atlantis I

    Quote 364-1

    2. Atlantis as a continent is a legendary tale. Whether or not that which has been received through psychic sources has for its basis those few lines given by Plato, or the references made in Holy writ that the earth was divided, depends upon the trend of individual minds. Recently, however, the subject has taken on greater import, since some scientists have declared that such a continent was not only a reasonable and plausible matter, but from evidences being gradually gathered was a very probable condition.

    3. As we recognize, there has been considerable given respecting such a lost continent by those channels such as the writer of Two Planets, or Atlantis - or Poseidia and Lemuria - that has been published through some of the Theosophical literature. As to whether this information is true or not, depends upon the credence individuals give to this class of information.

    4. Then, it has seemed well to many of this group, that those channels through which information may be obtained interest themselves in such an undertaking, as to gain through those channels such information that might be applicable in the lives or experiences of individuals interested in such.

    5. From time to time, in and through the information obtained for some individuals in their life readings, has come that they, as an entity or individual, occupied some particular place, or performed some activity in some portion of that continent; or emigrated from the continent to some other portion of the earth's surface at the time, and began some particular development. These must have been a busy folk, for with their advent into other climes (as the information runs) they began to make many changes from the activities in that particular sphere in which they entered.

    6. Then, if we are to accept such as being a fact or fiction, may truly depend upon what value to the human family knowledge concerning such a peoples would be in the affairs of individuals today. What contribution would information be to the minds of individuals, as to knowing or understanding the better or closer relations to the Creative Forces? Or, to put it another manner, what would information of that nature mean to my SOUL today?

    7. Be it true that there IS the fact of reincarnation, and that souls that once occupied such an environ are entering the earth's sphere and inhabiting individuals in the present, is it any wonder that - if they made such alterations in the affairs of the earth in their day, as to bring destruction upon themselves - if they are entering now, they might make many changes in the affairs of peoples and individuals in the present? Are they, then, BEING born into the world? If so, what WERE their environs - and will those environs mean in a material world today?

    364-3
    1. EC: Yes, we have the subject and those conditions. As has been said, much data has been received from time to time through psychic forces as respecting conditions in or through the period, or ages, of this continent's existence. That the continent existed is being proven as a fact.

    2. Then, what took place during the period, or periods, when it was being broken up? What became of the inhabitants? What was the character of their civilization? Are there any evidences of those, or any portion of, the inhabitants' escape? The POSITION of the continent, and the like, MUST be of interest to peoples in the present day, if either by inference that individuals are being born into the earth plane to develop in the present, or are people being guided in their spiritual interpretation of individuals' lives or developments BY the spirits of those who inhabited such a continent. In either case, if these be true, they ARE WIELDING - and are to wield - an influence upon the happenings of the present day world.

    3. The position as the continent Atlantis occupied, is that as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand - and the Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco on the one hand, British Honduras, Yucatan and America upon the other. There are some protruding portions within this that must have at one time or another been a portion of this great continent. The British West Indies or the Bahamas, and a portion of same that may be seen in the present - if the geological survey would be made in some of these - especially, or notably, in Bimini and in the Gulf Stream through this vicinity, these may be even yet determined.

    4. What, then, are the character of the peoples? To give any proper conception, may we follow the line of a group, or an individual line, through this continent's existence - and gain from same something of their character, their physiognomy, and their spiritual and physical development.

    5. In the period, then - some hundred, some ninety-eight thousand years before the entry of Ram into India [See 364-3, Par. R2] - there lived in this land of Atlantis one Amilius [?], who had first NOTED that of the separations of the beings as inhabited that portion of the earth's sphere or plane of those peoples into male and female as separate entities, or individuals.

    As to their forms in the physical sense, these were much RATHER of the nature of THOUGHT FORMS, or able to push out OF THEMSELVES in that direction in which its development took shape in thought - much in the way and manner as the amoeba would in the waters of a stagnant bay, or lake, in the present.

    As these took form, by the gratifying of their own desire for that as builded or added to the material conditions, they became hardened or set - much in the form of the existent human body of the day, with that of color as partook of its surroundings much in the manner as the chameleon in the present. Hence coming into that form as the red, or the mixture peoples - or colors; known then later by the associations as the RED race.

    These, then, able to use IN their gradual development all the forces as were manifest in their individual surroundings, passing through those periods of developments as has been followed more closely in that of the yellow, the black, or the white races, in other portions of the world; yet with their immediate surroundings, with the facilities for the developments, these became much speedier in this particular portion of the globe than in others - and while the destruction of this continent and the peoples are far beyond any of that as has been kept as an absolute record, that record in the rocks still remains - as has that influence OF those peoples in that life of those peoples to whom those that did escape during the periods of destruction make or influence the lives of those peoples TO whom they came. As they MAY in the present, either through the direct influence of being regenerated, or re-incarnated into the earth, or through that of the MENTAL application on through the influences as may be had upon thought OF individuals or groups by speaking from that environ.

    6. In the MANNER of living, in the manner of the moral, of the social, of the religious life of these peoples: There, classes existed much in the same order as existed among others; yet the like of the warlike INFLUENCE did NOT exist in the peoples - AS a people - as it did in the OTHER portions of the universe.

    Conflict between Belial and Law of One
    Quote 2464-1
    Entity was in the Atlantean land, during those activities in that period preceding the second upheavals. The entity was among the children of the law of One; a high priestess, who chose to keep within self those abilities for progeneration. (Remain male and female)
    Quote 2464-2
    The children of the Law of One were giving periods to the concentration of thought for the use of the universal forces, through the guidance or direction of the saints (as would be termed today).

    There are few terms in the present that would indicate the state of consciousness; save that, through the concentration of the group mind of the children of the Law of One, they entered into a fourth-dimensional consciousness - or were absent from the body. Thus they were able to have that experience of crystallizing, through the Light, the speech from what might well be termed the saint realm, to impart understanding and knowledge to the group thus gathered.

    To be sure, there were those influences apparent in which the children or sons of Belial sought more and more the use, or the interpreting of that spiritual unity into individuals or material things for self-aggrandizement or indulgences without due consideration for the freedom of choice or decision by those who were then, in the physical experience, in that state of evolution of developing their mental abilities for single or separate activity.

    Thus the great conflicting problems that arose in the experiences of the entity through that period of activity. Among those of the entity's own group that division had come in which there had arisen the separation of the sexes. There were those who had listened, and who were inclined to listen to the tempting applications made by the sons of Belial.

    These had made some impressions upon the companion, upon the workers - together with the entity in its choice of the representatives, in the activity among the peoples of that period. Something of the consciousness of the individuals that were in that state of evolution or development might well be interpreted in the language of today, if there is to be a proper interpreting of that influence to be applied by the entity in its choice of companion, of associations, in this present experience.

    A comparison might be made, that is not a full interpretation but gives something of an idea of the beings that have in some experiences advanced to that activity as may be implied in present day terms. Those individuals who had through their sojourns in the earth as souls pushed into matter as to become separate entities, without the consideration of principle or the ability of self-control, might be compared to the domestic pets of today, - as the present development of the horse, the mule, the dog, the cat.

    This is not intended to indicate that there is transmigration or transmutation of the soul from animal to human; but the comparison is made as to trait, as to mind, and as to how those so domesticated in the present are dependent upon their masters for that consideration of their material as well as mental welfare, - yet in each there is still the instinct, the predominant nature of that class or group-soul impregnation into which it has pushed itself for self-expression. Hence those interpretations are implied by the characteristics indicated in the name itself, as to the relationships to its group and its dealing in sexual relationships. Hence the terms, - as docile as the horse, as catty as the cat, as stubborn as the mule, or the like.

    These, then, are merely the indications of the groups that were being used through that period for the activities of the individual entity, as to its application of spiritual and mental universal laws in materiality; the same as in every realm of today.

    The entity then was the high priestess in authority, or the interpreter to the groups of the messages attained or gained from the periodical meetings with those from the universal realm, for instruction, for direction, for understanding in those periods of activity. Being influenced by the groups or individuals about same, there were those disputations with them as to the purposes of the children of Belial; that these were to be exploited rather than to be made equals with those thus endowed with the spiritual understanding. For, as it remains in the present day: That declaration made and those influences entertained, whether for construction or destruction, depend upon that force upon which the declaration by the entity was made, or that spirit with which the declaration was made or the influences entertained.

    In other words, with what spirit do ye declare thyself?

    That in conformity with the universal consciousness, the law of love? Or that of hate, dissension, contention - which brings or produces burdens upon thy fellow associates?

    For, the law of love is unchangeable; in that as ye do it to the least of thy fellows, ye do it to thy Maker. These are the problems with which the entity was confronted in its activity, in its sojourn through that particular phase of its experience; being tempted by that entity who favored less and less the law of One and became more and more favorable to the sons of Belial.

    (Q) Describe in detail the entity's work with the White Stone, and present urges from this.
    (A) This may be well implied from that indicated. The entity as the high priestess was the interpreter of the messages received through the concentration of the group upon the stone from which the oracle spoke from the realm of the saints (as would be termed today), or impressed upon those of that period - the group - the messages of hope, encouragement, endearment, and the necessity of keeping the oneness of purpose.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  23. The Following 26 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Alekahn2 (23rd March 2016), avid (23rd March 2016), Baby Steps (23rd March 2016), Bill Ryan (22nd March 2016), Billy (23rd March 2016), Callista (23rd March 2016), Calz (23rd March 2016), Caren (23rd March 2016), cursichella1 (25th March 2016), Deega (23rd March 2016), Dennis Leahy (24th March 2016), gord (24th March 2016), greybeard (23rd March 2016), Ioneo (22nd March 2016), justntime2learn (22nd March 2016), Mandala (23rd March 2016), Michelle Marie (23rd March 2016), Mike (23rd March 2016), moekatz (23rd March 2016), Patrikas (23rd March 2016), rgray222 (23rd March 2016), seko (23rd March 2016), Shannon (23rd March 2016), Sophocles (27th April 2016), Sunny-side-up (23rd March 2016), Wind (23rd March 2016)

  24. Link to Post #54
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    7th February 2014
    Location
    hawaii
    Age
    79
    Posts
    107
    Thanks
    1,555
    Thanked 536 times in 100 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    In a discussion 42 years ago with a person who had studied Edgar Cayce's Atlantis story, I remember vividly how she looked me square in the eye and said, "you know, all the Atlanteans are incarnating back on earth right now and they are all being born in or trying to get to.....CALIFORNIA.

  25. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to moekatz For This Post:

    Baby Steps (23rd March 2016), Calz (23rd March 2016), cursichella1 (23rd March 2016), fourty-two (26th March 2016), Hervé (23rd March 2016), Michelle Marie (23rd March 2016), Shannon (23rd March 2016), Wind (23rd March 2016)

  26. Link to Post #55
    Argentina Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    18th November 2015
    Location
    Patagonia
    Posts
    724
    Thanks
    1,566
    Thanked 4,523 times in 661 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by moekatz (here)
    In a discussion 42 years ago with a person who had studied Edgar Cayce's Atlantis story, I remember vividly how she looked me square in the eye and said, "you know, all the Atlanteans are incarnating back on earth right now and they are all being born in or trying to get to.....CALIFORNIA.
    Most people I know are trying to get out of Cali.

  27. Link to Post #56
    Scotland Moderator Billy's Avatar
    Join Date
    27th January 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    69
    Posts
    6,749
    Thanks
    55,318
    Thanked 33,557 times in 5,028 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by moekatz (here)
    In a discussion 42 years ago with a person who had studied Edgar Cayce's Atlantis story, I remember vividly how she looked me square in the eye and said, "you know, all the Atlanteans are incarnating back on earth right now and they are all being born in or trying to get to.....CALIFORNIA.
    I remember something I read about 30yrs ago. That after the self imposed devastation through the misuse of knowledge, wisdom and technology, many Atlanteans wanted to reincarnate back on earth to make sure that the cycle would not be repeated. But they did not want to reincarnate in a human form because of the distraction of temptation of the flesh. So they chose to incarnate as dolphins. That way their intentions could be uncorrupted. With pure hearts, using their super intelligence, knowledge and wisdom as an energetic signature that flows through all the waters around the world to help humanity and mother earth.

    If true, We should be thanking the dolphins instead of killing them.
    Last edited by Billy; 23rd March 2016 at 04:22.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

  28. The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Billy For This Post:

    Alekahn2 (23rd March 2016), Baby Steps (23rd March 2016), Callista (23rd March 2016), Calz (23rd March 2016), Elisheva (24th March 2016), fourty-two (26th March 2016), gord (24th March 2016), greybeard (23rd March 2016), Hervé (23rd March 2016), Maknocktomb (24th March 2016), Michelle Marie (23rd March 2016), Mike (23rd March 2016), NeedleThreader (24th March 2016), seko (23rd March 2016), Wind (23rd March 2016)

  29. Link to Post #57
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by moekatz (here)
    In a discussion 42 years ago with a person who had studied Edgar Cayce's Atlantis story, I remember vividly how she looked me square in the eye and said, "you know, all the Atlanteans are incarnating back on earth right now and they are all being born in or trying to get to.....CALIFORNIA.
    California... yes, with its "Silicon Valley" and the many research centers: Stanford, Cal-tech, JPL, Berkeley, Livermore, etc...

    There was a reading that, when taken out of context, was put in the earthquake category:
    Quote “Will Los Angeles be safe?”
    “Los Angeles, San Francisco, most all of these will be among those that will be destroyed before New York even.”
    However, when put back in the original context of the question, that well known excerpt points in a totally different direction:

    Quote A New York businessman, concerned not only by the continuing strain of big city life, but the threat of wartime bombing [WW II], had said to Cayce,

    “I have for many months felt that I should move out of New York.”

    “This is well, as indicated,” the slumbering Cayce observed.

    “There is too much unrest; there will continue to be the character of vibrations that to the body will be disturbing, and eventually those destructive forces, though these will be in the next generation.”

    The businessman asked:

    “Will Los Angeles be safe?”

    The answer came clearly, directly, without equivocation:

    “Los Angeles, San Francisco, most all of these will be among those that will be destroyed before New York even.”
    Although "vibrations" encompasses earthquakes and explosions, a scant search for "vibration" in the Cayce material yields mostly references to radio waves, RF, radiations, etc...

    Considering the growth of electrosmog, microwaves, cell towers, WiFi, smart-meters, etc, in the "vibrational atmosphere" of those cities, amongst others, and one might want to reconsider what the source of destruction is, or going to be...
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  30. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Calz (23rd March 2016), Elisheva (24th March 2016), gord (24th March 2016), greybeard (23rd March 2016), Michelle Marie (23rd March 2016), Mike (23rd March 2016), PurpleLama (23rd March 2016), seko (23rd March 2016)

  31. Link to Post #58
    Avalon Member Enola's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th November 2015
    Posts
    310
    Thanks
    238
    Thanked 1,315 times in 279 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    When I've had soul readings Atlantis always comes up as a first life.

    Seems like I was mostly doing some type of priestess work or in a spiritual environment. I was also told I worked as some kind of oracle in several lives and was a very clear channel for the angelic kingdom.

    After that we took the civilisation to Egypt and carried on with the same things there. One time we talked about my lives in Egypt she asked if I knew that I knew Cleopatra personally and she and I were good friends. I was one of her chaperons in that life so we spent a lot of time together.

    She said although Cleopatra was very kind and generous to me I didn't like her that much as I was jealous of her. Cleopatra wasn't very popular among women because they were jealous. We also had a rivalry over Marc Anthony.

    Sounds kind of crazy to me, but that's what she said.

  32. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Enola For This Post:

    gord (24th March 2016), Hervé (23rd March 2016), Michelle Marie (23rd March 2016), Mike (23rd March 2016)

  33. Link to Post #59
    United States On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    30th June 2011
    Location
    The Seat of Corruption
    Age
    44
    Posts
    9,177
    Thanks
    25,610
    Thanked 53,659 times in 8,694 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    That way their intentions could be uncorrupted. With pure hearts, using their super intelligence, knowledge and wisdom as an energetic signature that flows through all the waters around the world to help humanity and mother earth.

    If true, We should be thanking the dolphins instead of killing them.
    what are we thanking them for again?


    cuz I think they got their "energetic signatures" wrong or something...

    unless bombs in public places are a part of the plan :shrug:



    if this is an Atlantis replay then the new "atlantians" are most likely a part of the shadow government & I hope they do destroy themselves.

    if that's not the case then they are selfish arse holes that are hording knowledge.. .either way I'm not going to lose any sleep.
    Last edited by TargeT; 23rd March 2016 at 17:49.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

  34. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to TargeT For This Post:

    fourty-two (26th March 2016), Hervé (23rd March 2016), Michelle Marie (23rd March 2016), Mike (23rd March 2016)

  35. Link to Post #60
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,700
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Atlantis: where and when was it?

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    That way their intentions could be uncorrupted. With pure hearts, using their super intelligence, knowledge and wisdom as an energetic signature that flows through all the waters around the world to help humanity and mother earth.

    If true, We should be thanking the dolphins instead of killing them.
    what are we thanking them for again?


    cuz I think they got their "energetic signatures" wrong or something...

    unless bombs in public places are a part of the plan :shrug:



    if this is an Atlantis replay then the new "atlantians" are most likely a part of the shadow government & I hope they do destroy themselves.

    if that's not the case then they are selfish arse holes that are hording knowledge.. .either way I'm not going to lose any sleep.

    Well, TargeT you cynic you

    Perhaps they are helping, thru energetic sig or otherwise...but they can't be counted on to eradicate every bit of evil in the world, crumbs n all...right?

    One way to think of it is to imagine (if indeed dolphins are somehow helping humanity) what this place would be like without their assistance. Perhaps roadside bombs would be the least of our worries...

    This is pretty woo woo for me, but I do tend to believe dolphins help humanity is some way, tho i can't pretend to know how..

    P.s don't get me started on unicorns (kidding)

  36. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    cursichella1 (25th March 2016), Dennis Leahy (23rd March 2016), Elisheva (24th March 2016), fourty-two (26th March 2016), Hervé (23rd March 2016), NeedleThreader (24th March 2016), seko (24th March 2016), TargeT (24th March 2016)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 3 5 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts