This evening in Israel

[Polyamine]

Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?

[Tesseract]

Posted by Polyamine (here)

I don't mind you verbally assaulting me or my opinion. Our views are different and yet I don't verbally assault you or your character. Why is that? Perhaps I am rational about the situation and realize that attempting to belittle someone on a message board is of little use. It certainly would not change anyone's opinion. Would you like to apologize for your insults?

Oh, you certainly did your best to belittle me in your earlier post, and it was of little use. No, I would not like to apologise. Would you like to apologise for your defense of the indefensible?

[Tesseract]

Posted by Polyamine (here)
Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?

I support their defense of Palestine and Lebanon - I don't support their religious beliefs.

[Polyamine]

Posted by Tesseract (here)

Posted by Polyamine (here)
Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?

I support their defense of Palestine and Lebanon - I don't support their religious beliefs.

Do you feel they are terrorists?

[Observer1964]

Posted by Polyamine (here)
Do you feel they are terrorists?

If I was Israeli I propably would, If I was Palestinian I would probably not.

The french maquis during ww2 was called terrorist by the germans, by the french resistance, so it depends on where you stand.

But from my point I do see them as the underdogs.

[loungelizard]

Posted by Tesseract (here)

Posted by Polyamine (here)
Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?

I support their defense of Palestine and Lebanon - I don't support their religious beliefs.

I'd be interested to hear how that works for you: reading the Hamas covenant, one understands that they are clearly inextricably linked.
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/50...palestineu.jpg

[Observer1964]

Why do we ignore what is really going on here?

Israel is taking over Palestine, and the Palestinians have hardly any of their land left.

What would you do if someone big and strong comes living in your house uninvited and pushes you out and the police (U.N.) helps this invader?
just leave and be homeless or try to get the invader out?

[Dorjezigzag]

A history of the land now named Israel.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4pKMV6e5kEo

Do we not learn, What is now happening in this land is a travesty.

[Billy]

Concerning the OP picture.
Having been in the war zone in Bosnia, It is normal behaviour for the civilians if they are able, to head to the hills away from the danger zone and watch the fireworks from a safe distance. Just as millions watched the Iraqi war unfold on TV.

Yes speak out against the Zionists and The Israeli Government and military, Hammas ,Hezbollah, And any one else who does not think that all are equal and life is sacred. they deserve it.

But the people of Israel and the poor Palestinians people only ever want peace.

@Tesseract, I think the OP picture and comment is an insult to the everyday Israeli citizens. ONE female smiling at a camera has no meaning. It is a pity you started what could be an interesting thread by posting a picture distorted by peoples interpretations, with no links provided as to its source.

Insulting a member by calling them a Moron is also not the way forward.
some self moderating is called for.

What is the solution for the people of Palestine and Israel, A debate that is most welcomed in Avalon, Is there a solution that could bring peace to this horrific situation. It does not appear so.

My personal thoughts are,

The intentional divide and conquer by creating the state of Israel in 1948 by those who believe they are in control was a disaster from the beginning, initiated to bring on the bastards in power agenda of world war 111.

A shame the world is falling for this lie which does not have to happen. A homeland for the displaced Jewish population who survived the genocide did not have to be in Palestine. A homeland was what was required, That homeland could have been anywhere.

My personal solution.

The people of Israel awaken to the fact that they are used as pawns by their leaders and those who believe they in control as they attempt to steer towards Armageddon. The people of Israel say. enough is enough, NOT IN MY NAME.

Everyone moves out of Jerusalem, NO ONE ever moves back in. A new homeland is given to Israel. The history of lies is realized, Jerusalem becomes a monument for all nations, religions and future generations. The city of Jerusalem becomes a University where Schools of learning are built to teach the true history of humanity. For all the worlds truth seekers to attend. The lies of religions are realized and the true history of the creation of religions are learned.

Peace reigns

and i am allowed to think outside the box.

[Observer1964]

My personal solution.

The people of Israel awaken to the fact that they are used as pawns by their leaders and those who believe they in control as they attempt to steer towards Armageddon. The people of Israel say. enough is enough, NOT IN MY NAME.

Everyone moves out of Jerusalem, NO ONE ever moves back in. A new homeland is given to Israel. The history of lies is realized, Jerusalem becomes a monument for all nations, religions and future generations. The city of Jerusalem becomes a University where Schools of learning are built to teach the true history of humanity. For all the worlds truth seekers to attend. The lies of religions are realized and the true history of the creation of religions are learned.

Peace reigns

and i am allowed to think outside the box.

Best solution I heard sofar.

Maybe we create a land for them where no one can claim anything...
Like the artificial Island of Dubai, but bigger, a large circular Island and then pump out the water of the encircled area et voila, with modern technology and know-how this should't be all that difficult.

[Ulyse30]

La seule chose que nous voulons,c'est la paix,la paix,la paix,le drapeau blanc partout sur Terre,.....!!!! Ceci est mon pain quotidien,ceci est mon obsession personnelle,depuis l'enfance que je souffre en silence en ce qui concerne les guerres sur la Terre,....je ne suis plus capable d'écouter les nouvelles à la T.V.,depuis environ 1999,je lie encore moins les journaux,je suis plus capable des mensonges,etc!!!Je perd plus mon temps avec ces manipulations,je me concentre sur mes méditations,.....!!!!

[Observer1964]

Posted by Ulyse30 (here)
La seule chose que nous voulons,c'est la paix,la paix,la paix,le drapeau blanc partout sur Terre,.....!!!!

Daar sluit ik mij volledig bij aan.

[Ulyse30]

Toutes les solutions positives ici,sont de très bonnes solutions!!!Les problèmes vient de plus haut,de ceux qui tirent les ficelles,ils ont déjà plusieurs solutions à leurs dossiers,mais ils veulent pas,que sa ce règle,...!!!!

[ThePythonicCow]

As it was for Billy in his post above, this thread has been both provocative and concerning for me.

For the purposes of my response here, let me define war as "the large scale rape, pillage, murder, genocide, enslavement, torture and terrorizing of humans, by other humans."

As is clear to anyone who reads history or observes current events, humanity apparently has a propensity for war, thusly defined. I say "apparently" because I think that this propensity is imposed, not inherent.

I find some interesting parallels between war and cancer. In both cases, like turns on like. As human civilization has a propensity for war, so do human (and other such) bodies have a propensity for cancer.

In the case of cancer, the proper response (in my view) is neither to ignore it, hoping for the best, nor to attack it viciously by trying to cut, burn or poison it, as is the current "standard of medical care." Rather I recommend better supporting the body's own well being, while reducing the toxic and irritating influences, thus allowing the body's own preference for healthy tissue to regain the upper hand. One does not ignore the cancer, but rather notices it, as one of several useful sources of feedback guiding one's efforts further.

War, as I broadly defined it, warrants a similar response. It does not work to ignore it, sticking our head in the sand ostrich style, with the (false) hope that if only we all loved each other, war would be obsolete. In my (admittedly, conspiracy inclined) view, war is a toxin on human civilization deliberately instigated by some smaller number of bastards who do not have humanity's best interests at heart. That toxin will not go away just because we hope it will. Rather a healthier, stronger human civilization will be more resistant to it, and an informed civilization can better focus its resistance to these bastards, and better guide its endeavors to a healthier, more humane, civilization.

Let us not fall into "he said, she said" justifications for continuing the war due to claims that the other side started it: "They shot first. Annihilate them!"

Let us not fall into "they deserve it" justifications for continuing the war with claims that "See! The other side enjoys their brutality. They are sub-human and unworthy of any mercy."

Let us humans work together to build a stronger and healthier civilization, that respects strong, free and healthy individuals and that contributes to a healthier planet. Let us continue to identify and diminish the influence of the bastards that would abuse this planet, its life and our humanity.

[Observer1964]

Posted by Ulyse30 (here)
Créer des îles artificielles pour Gaïa ce n'est pas bon,Dubaï n'est pas bon pour Gaïa,pomper l'eau n'est pas bon pour Gaïa,....

There are places that were once above water and are now only covered by a undeep see that could easily be dry again. big parts of my country are below sealevel too.
Anyway to me that sounds better than taking land thats allready occupied

[Ulyse30]

Notre Terre,nous aiment,elle nous accueillent,partout il y a de la vie,partout il y a de la place,le problème c'est que certains esprits humains et non humains contrôlants gèrent les conflits pour qu'ils durent,.....Je suis certains qu'ont peux régler les conflits,mais il faut trouver des solutions pacifiques,....un terrain d'entente pacifique!!!!Ils aiment compliquer les situations en jetant de l'huile sur LES FEUX,déjà biens alimentés depuis des décennies,ces l'une de leurs tactiques,.....

[Tesseract]

Of course it would be ideal if there were a collective change of views in Israel – I have exactly considered this scenario myself. The reality is though, that Israel, at least since the early 2000s, has been steadily inching towards the right, the apartheid system has been underscored with the construction of walls around Palestinian areas, and the settler programs have gotten bigger and bigger. I recall, back in the early days of the second intifada, when Israel used a fighter jet to launch air strikes against Palestinian targets it was major news, because it was the first time in a long time that this had happened. Nowadays, these kinds of air strikes are routine and are barely a cause for commentary, even outside of these major offensives. The reality is that the bombs are falling, the missiles are flying, the tanks are rolling and the Palestinian people are engaged in a desperate attempt to defend their own lives – and they are receiving almost no defensive assistance at the state level.

Some kind of mass awakening of Israeli Zionists to their own depravity is a hope, yes – but it is quite a stretch to call it a solution, much less one of any tangible probability. It’s a relatively facile exercise to come up with ideal (where no one loses anything) but utterly unlikely outcomes. It’s easy to ignore the fact that exiled Palestinians and Jewish immigrants/settlers lay claim to exactly the same pieces of land. My preference is for the foreign implants to be removed and the Palestinians let back in to the land of their birth – not something that is possible if you only want to subscribe to implausible fantasies where no one loses anything.

I note that no one has yet taken up my offer to explain why it would be wrong to shoot down the jets and destroy the destroyers. The invitation stands. I take it that people are still searching for an argument... Maybe someone will post some photos of kittens and say ‘what about this instead?’

I support world vision, even though they are an overtly Christian, proselytising organisation. If it came to a vote I would most likely not vote for Hamas over Fatah, but that does not mean I don’t support their democratic legitimacy or their resistance efforts on the ground. Hamas won the Palestinian general elections, freely and fairly, and had a clear mandate to govern Palestine. Their chance to do this was destroyed. The definition of Hamas and Fatah as terrorist organisations switches with the nature of their opposition with Israel. Israel had a relationship with Hamas (or what would become Hamas) when senior figures like Yassin were calling for restraint - at a time when Fatah was at the forefront of the armed resistance. Situation is now reversed. As for Hezbollah, no I do not consider them a terrorist organisation, in fact they are one of the biggest forces against Islamic terrorists in the region. Further, I recall the war between Israel and Hezbollah after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006 – the ratio of civilians to militants killed was lower for Hezbollah offensives than it was for Israeli offensives. Hezbollah also has democratic representation, and while I wouldn’t necessarily vote for them I recognise and support their resistance on the ground and their democratic legitimacy.

I used the picture in the OP to open the debate – and at the time I didn’t know if it would get a response or not. However, the actual picture is really quite irrelevant, as that scene has played out before during other offensives against gaza – but only this time did it, for some reason, garner media attention. The bombing operation has major support in Israel and whether someone is in a deck chair supporting this murder, or on the telephone speaking to a pollster, doesn’t really matter. And you can keep talking about it, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over insulting Zionists, and I refer anyone concerned to the substance of that user’s post when judging whether or not is was valid to question if that person was a child or if they lacked intelligence (see, it’s not really any less insulting just by removing one word, for the actual offense is in the substance of the message).

I see quite a few people using the strategy of making the imputation that, because of my condemnation, without caveat, of the state of Israel, my unapologetic destruction of Zionist apology, my arguments on the moral weakness of neutrality and giving credence to Israeli hasbara, that I am dissuading contributions. You need to understand that this intensity is the very nature of my opposition. Why shouldn’t I be mad at you all for trying to shut me, and anyone else with an incisive, but accurate comment, down? If I tell a lie, or make a mistake, by all means let me know. If you have a compelling argument against my own views, please make it. I have already invited this. But don’t put me on a guilt trip for standing up for, without any platitudinous ambiguity or assuagement (which we seem to be addicted to), a people in plight. You may be surprised to know that love and humanity is at the core of even the sharp end of the resistance effort.

[Wind]

Unbiased reporting from Vice News. The situation is really disheartening, I can't believe that the international community allows this to continue, but I'm not really surprised since US' criminal government supports Israel's criminal government. Meanwhile the situation in Ukraine is getting really bad too... I wonder if all of this is planned or are the escalations just "natural"?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ssoZUSOgELk

[ulli]

Posted by Wind (here)
Unbiased reporting from Vice News. The situation is really disheartening, I can't believe that the international community allows this to continue, but I'm not really surprised since US' criminal government supports Israel's criminal government. Meanwhile the situation in Ukraine is getting really bad too... I wonder if all of this is planned or are the escalations just "natural"?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ssoZUSOgELk

There is nothing natural about poly-ticks. It's all planned.

The earliest quote was from abolitionist minister Theodore Parker (1810-1860)
who said in 1848, “They called him (John Tyler --ed.) an accident; but there are no accidents in politics.”

A similar saying (incorrectly credited to Franklin D. Roosevelt) is
“In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens you can bet it was planned that way.”

[Wind]

Posted by ulli (here)
There is nothing natural about poly-ticks. It's all planned.

That's what I was guessing, politics as usual and human lives don't mean anything to the leaders. I'm still wondering if certain factions would want certain prophecies come to life...