Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Hervé]

Crash sites:

[Billy]

continued from my previous post:

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/2...e-flag-attack/

From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev’s BUK launchers were then moved away from the firing zone.

Unlike rebel fighters, the Ukrainian military is in possession of some 27 BUK missile systems capable of bringing down high-flying jets, and forensic satellite imagery places at least 3 of their launchers in the Donetsk region on the day of this tragedy. Yet, Washington and NATO will not inquire about the possibility that any of these system had targeted MH17.

Watch the official video here:



This is a definitive smoking gun: why did the Ukrainian Army move these short-range anti-aircraft SAM missile batteries into position on July 16-17th – to an interior region of East Ukraine where it’s known that the rebel resistance possess no air crafts whatsoever? Not surprisingly, both the US and Kiev have not answered that difficult question, perhaps for obvious reasons.

In addition, the Ukrainian Army’s radio location traffic near Donetsk peaked on the 16th and 17th, including a total of 9 separate radio location systems active. On the 18th and 19th of July, radio location traffic from these stations dropped sharply, down to 4 stations. If, as Washington/Kiev claims, rebels fired a BUK missile at MH17, then the rebel radar location signals would be clearly noted and verifiable on the day; only, they are not.

MH17-MAP
All Aircraft in the Vicinity

Between 5pm-6pm Moscow Time on July 17th, the following aircraft have been identified in the general vicinity of MH17 on its course heading to its fatal destination of Grabovo:

1. Boeing 772 – traveling southeast from Copenhagen to Singapore at 5:17pm
2. Boeing 778 – traveling southeast from Paris to Taipei at 5:24pm
3. Boeing 778 – traveling northwest from Delhi to Birmingham circa 5:20pm
4. Boeing 777 – Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 at 5:17pm
5. Ukrainian Fighter Jet (confirmation of model TBC) appears on radar, trailing MH17 at same altitude, est. 4km behind it at 5:21pm

Note: the pilots and passengers of Singapore Airlines Flight SIA351 were close enough to have visually observed, at high altitude, the demise of MH17.

At 5:20pm MH17 began to abruptly lose speed, eventually slowing to 124mph (200kmph). About this time, possibly an Su-25 Ukrainian fighter jet appears on ATC radar climbing in the direction of MH17, before trailing MH17 on the same flight path approximately 3-5km behind MH17, rapidly approaching the same flight level - only minutes before MH17 disappeared on radar. Note that a Ukrainian fighter would not have been visible on ATC radar before it broke the ATC long-range standby radar tracking ceiling of 5km in altitude. Civilian ATC radar would not be able to identify this Su-25 as military because no secondary detection system is mounted – typical for military aircraft. Over the next four minutes, the Ukrainian fighter remained in the area.

Note also that the Su-25 can be armed with air-to-air R-60 missiles with a range of up to 5km-12km, but as 21WIRE has discovered, the Su-25 is not the only combat aircraft the Ukrainian Air Force has in its possession. On June 4, 2014, Janes Defense reported that Kiev have recently returned to service two other higher performance fighters, including the Su-27 ‘Flanker’ and the MiG-29 ‘Fulcrum’ fighters. The altitude ceiling performance characteristics of all in-service Ukrainian fighters are as follows:

Su-25 ‘Frogfoot’ fighter – Ceiling: 23,000 ft/ 7,000 m, or up to 32,800 ft/ 10,000 m (depending aircraft modifications)
Su-27 ‘Flanker’ fighter – Ceiling: 64,000 ft/ 19,000 m
MiG-29 ‘Fulcrum’ jet – Ceiling: 59,000 ft/ 18,000 m
Su-24 ‘Fencer’ fighter – Ceiling: 36,000 ft/ 11,000 m, or up to 57,400 ft/ 17,500 m (depending on variations of turbo intake)

Although the exact altitude position of MH17 is not yet know for every given second of its final minutes, it’s clear that a Ukrainian combat jet was in its shadow. Suffice to say, Kiev had a number of combat aircraft capable of engaging MH17 at within a wide range of altitudes, as well as firing air-to-air missile at short range (3-5km)either upwards, or downward angles using laser guided targeting which is standard on many of these models.

WATCH VIDEO:

Another Smoking Gun: Kiev government officials insisted on July 17th that, “No military aircraft were available in the region”. Based on available data detailed above, this appears to be a lie, indicating that a cover-up was taking place.

Again, it’s important to note here that at the moment when MH17 was allegedly was hit for the first time, at around 5:23pm Moscow time, the passenger jet was also within the range of several Ukrainian BUK batteries deployed close to Donetsk and as well as the Ukrainian Army’s BUK system positioned on the day just 8km south of Shakhterskoye, only a few miles from the eventual crash site at Grabovo.


IMAGE: A Ukrainian military Su-25 fighter jet carries air-to-air missiles, as do the Su-27 ‘Flanker’, and the MIG-29 Folcrum Fighter.

MH17′s Mysterious Left Turn

On passing glance, this seemingly minor, yet unexplained event doesn’t appear to be significant, but as is often the case, the devil is in the detail.

Again, was Kiev ATC also responsible for MH17′s final and fatal diversion from its course, or is there another reason for what appears to be an evasive maneuver?

One very real possibility for MH17 losing being diverted 14km to the left is that its GPS or navigation system was being jammed. US-NATO forces happened to be conducting an electronic warfare exercise in the Black Sea on July 17th (see ‘SEA BREEZE 2014′, below). In addition to this possibility, all Boeing jets (except Germany’s Lufthansa fleet) are equipped with a remote override that can be accessed by authorities in certain foreign countries, one being the United States. Although not publicly acknowledged until recently, Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot (BUAP) systems have been standard since the late 1990′s, apparently designed to take control of a commercial aircraft away from the pilot or flight crew, chiefly in the event of a terrorist incident.

Another possible explanation for this crucial event in the timeline is that MH17 was hit, or damaged, taking an emergency 180º left turn for 14km, before disappearing completely off of radar. This appears to be the case. On July 23rd, Anna-News published an interview with retired Russian Air Force colonel Aleksand Zhilin (Александр Жилин) a frequent military commentator on Ukraine’s Civil War.

“According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by the Russian border.”

“When, however, the Boeing started to turn in the opposite direction and was still apparently manageable, the US-Ukrainian headquarters of the special operation panicked and ordered the Buk battery to destroy the plane in the air in order to pre-empt the possibility of the Boeing’s emergency landing. A Buk missile was fired and the plane was then finally destroyed.”
21WIRE spoke to former Czech diplomat and political analyst, Vladimir Suchan, who puts Zhilin’s comments into context of what was happening militarily at the time of the crash. Suchan explains, “If MH17 was hit right over the frontline over Snezhnoye, this would have placed the timing and location of the intended downing and crash site to either the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, or much closer to the border between Russia and Ukraine where the “securing of the site” would allow lifting the strategic encirclement of the Ukrainian troops in the south and thus, on top of other objectives, saving Kiev’s armed forces from its first major military defeat.” (see ‘Military All-Out Offense’ section below)

If, indeed MH17 was struck by an air-to-air missile at that time, a distress call may have been sent to Kiev ATC, but as yet, Kiev officials may be reluctant to share, or release the entirety of its communications from July 17th.

At the time of this report being filed at 21WIRE, a second source to verify this testimony is not presently available. Zhilin’s account certainly makes sense when placed next to all ATC and satellite data released by Moscow. However, flight recorder information and data from MH17′s black boxes would certainly be able to corroborate this timeline of events, and one hopes that Great Britain’s predetermined political stance against Russia does not prevent Downing Street, or MI5 Intelligence Services from releasing the black box information in its entirety and more importantly, a full and unedited disclosure to the media. More than likely, the BBC will have first access to this release, and how the BBC report their findings will be very telling.

Above, is one possible map of MH17 final minutes, as calculated from one source of available public data, available here: http://nikolay-istomin.livejournal.com/3057934.html.

This account is also consistent with the location of key pieces of wreckage scattered over the wider crash site radius. It shows M17 turning back on itself, after being struck initially. If this was the final path, then it completely disapproves the US (US State Department) conspiracy theory that a rebel-controlled BUK missile hit the plane head-on from Snezhnoye (Snizhne). This U-turn then also helps explain why Kiev’s first “leaked conversation of the rebels” (see ‘Kiev’s Botch Social Media Audio’ below) tried to place the rebel’s BUK battery at a completely different location in Debaltzevo, a few kilometers northwest of the main crash site at Grabovo. However, that would not explain the U-turn, which they tried so much to conceal – for it points to the Ukrainian jet fighter.

As part of their PR damage-control exercise, Washington released this Google Map-style graphic on Tuesday July 22nd, illustrating its theory that the rebel missile battery was now located in Snezhnoye:



Incredibly, Washington’s latest evidence/theory, depicted above, put their alleged rebel firing position in an entirely new spot – at Snezhnoye, and this now contradicts other ‘social media’ items being held-up by John Kerry and President Obama in their “mountain of evidence” (see ‘More Falsified and Sloppy ‘Evidence’ Supplied by SBU’, below).

The irony of this somehow escaped US State Dept. Deputy Spokesperson, Marie Harf during her globally televised ‘intelligence’ briefing on Tuesday (see ‘US Now in Full Retreat and Damage-Control Mode’, below).

Almost certainly, the US government already has a comprehensive communications, satellite and radar data set which could either corroborate, or disprove what Russia has released. The fact that Washington only has this Google graphic to offer to the public indicates that what it has… may not be what it wants.

Whistleblower: A Spanish Air Traffic Controller in Kiev

All evidence pointing to a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet in the same frame as MH17, also validates the testimony of ‘Carlos’, an ATC contractor in Kiev. ETN received information from an air traffic controller (Borispol Airport) in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17:


“This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board. The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down. Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from. Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.”

‘Carlos’ was reporting from the Kiev airport in real time on Twitter, of the downing of MH17 as the tragedy was taking place — during that very time and in the very next hour – only to disappear immediately, along with his Twitter account.

Again, real mounting evidence which points to an obvious cover-up by Kiev and its NATO partners.


This is a long and in depth article. Continue here.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/2...e-flag-attack/

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Crash sites:

The more I look at this debris feild the more it reminds me of the Pan Am 103 debris feild, makes one wonder if this MH17 was blown apart from the inside rather than taken out by a missile....????

[Cidersomerset]

Seems like the noise to signal ratio is dramatically increasing here...

Unless UFOs are involved in making human bodies to rain like fish from the sky... that's a tough one to fake!

PS: that plane really did break apart very high up in the sky!

I thought I'd leave that for you to look at Amzer , I just posted the article for discussion...LOL

I'm finding this a bit hard to believe and quite far fetched....it's rather a bit convincing but I'm not getting it. Why would they fake the 777 with another smaller jet? makes no sense.....and where did the MH17 Boeing 777 go???? Where did all the people come from that fell through peoples roofs and scattered the debris field?

I admit its possible MH17 could be now sitting in a hanger next to MH370, but I personally doubt it.

There was definitely a disaster and hundreds died, I'm willing to consider
all ideas, this was not a hoax imo but probably a false flag to get at
Putin for a number of reasons expressed in the many posts on this thread.

[KiwiElf]

It's possible it was both Cider - an external missile (which could also have been fired from another aircraft) AND an explosion from inside as well (a planted bomb, which is what VT's Gordon Duff alludes to)

[Hervé]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
[...]

The more I look at this debris feild the more it reminds me of the Pan Am 103 debris feild, makes one wonder if this MH17 was blown apart from the inside rather than taken out by a missile....????

That's what it looks like to me, more and more...

The misdirections keep any debate around Buk missiles or "possibly" air-air rockets for those looking at the witnessed presence of jet fighters near MH17.

All, that leaves Shiphol airport's shady deals with all sorts of agencies with the cooperation of the Netherlands' government as "Operator" keeps repeating... oh, well...

[SilentFeathers]

Considering the liars that they are and also that they immediately determined it was a missile, it was probably an interior bomb that destroyed this craft.
The fighters tailing it were probably just a backup (plan B) to take it out if the bomb failed.....looks to me the bomb was quite successful. All the hupla about some ground to air missile taking this thing down is probably completely bull****.

Since they are so hell bent on making everyone believe it WAS a missile, I'm calling bull**** on that claim.

[Hervé]

Posted by Billy (here)
continued from my previous post:

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/2...e-flag-attack/

[...]

“According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by the Russian border.”

[...]

Well, unfortunate pun but that's 1/2 a hit for the Cs unless that colonel is also monitoring what the Cs have to say (or vice-versa):

Session 19 July 2014 « on: July 20, 2014, 10:42:32 PM »

[...]

Q: (L) Okay. We're going to change topics here. As you know, we just had this plane fall out of the sky over the Ukraine. Immediately the US blamed Russia, and then it started blaming the Russian-aided freedom fighters in East Ukraine. Meanwhile, the Russians say it was clearly the Ukrainians in conjunction with US/NATO/UK/Whoever. So, I guess the first thing we ought to ask is: What brought the plane down?

A: [Spiraling] Bomb on the plane placed there prior to departure.

Q: (Pierre) Schiphol airport, again! The famous Underwear Bomber place! So, MOSSAD?

(L) Who was involved?

A: Note change in altitude for "signature".

Q: (Perceval) From 35 to 33...

(L) 33. Is 33 the clue?

A: Yes. Consortium. And who is at the top of this STS pyramid??

Q: (Perceval) Figures.

(L) Who is at the top of this pyramid? And who is at the top?

(Perceval) MOSSAD.

(L) MOSSAD? The Israelis?

A: Yes

Q: (Perceval) It seems the goal was to further demonize Putin and Russia. But was it also to distract from what's happening in Palestine?

A: Absolutely!

Q: (Pierre) Is it only coincidence... before MH 17, there was MH 370, this plane that disappeared from the same company. Is it just coincidence that the two incidents involve the same airline company?

A: Another "signature".

Q: (Data) Why did the plane deviate from its usual course?

A: Instructed by ATC.

Q: (Perceval) Air traffic control at Schiphol?

A: Kiev.

Q: (Perceval) So, some agent...

(L) There was some control by MOSSAD in Kiev, and that whole Nazi business going on there...

(Kniall) They've been there for DECADES!

A: Yes!

Q: (L) I think that was answering Kniall there.

(Data) Why was it necessary to change the course with a bomb on board?

(L) So it would fall where it did. They had to change the course to put it in the middle of the war zone.

(Ark) The Russians were saying that the timing was a little bit miscalculated because it was supposed to come down closer to the Russian territory so that it would be easier to blame Russia.

A: Yes.

Q: (Pierre) It exploded too early.

(L) Yeah, they're so lazy, they never get anything perfect.

(Chu) Or too impatient.

A: But most people are so gullible it doesn't matter.

[...]

[Hervé]

Posted by naste.de.lumina (here)
Busted! MH-17 Was in Fact the 'Lost' Flight MH-370

[...]

Check this thread/post: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post856848

[Billy]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by Billy (here)
continued from my previous post:

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/2...e-flag-attack/

[...]

“According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by the Russian border.”

[...]

Well, unfortunate pun but that's 1/2 a hit for the Cs unless that colonel is also monitoring what the Cs have to say (or vice-versa):

If this was what actually happened and one of the Ukrainian jets hit one of the engines of MH17. Then i would say Ukraine at all costs would attempt to cover this up. Maybe as far as stupidly trying to swap an engine.

Thinking out loud here.

peace

[Hervé]

Now, this is an interesting piece of evidence because it shows...

"what isn't there!"

See?

What is this picture showing that isn't there?

... total absence of shrapnel impacts!

See? Unless the "alleged" Buk missile exploded right under the fuselage, the above piece of the plane's ruder is the only piece of an aircraft that would record shrapnel impacts from either side...

... and this one shows no shrapnel impacts from the left side:

... and this one shows no -- none-- shrapnel impacts from the right side:

... so what's left is: from directly underneath the plane since a "directly above" is not part of the possibility a of proximity-detonation from an "alleged" surface launched missile.

To the above, add this:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]

Full view:

... which quenched my suspicion that the first picture above might not have been from the downed MH17.

However these pictures point to another question since it seems that the projectiles are the wrong way to:

... they seem to be coming from the fuselage...

... that raises the question of a bomb inside that plane...

That would make more sense than to leave it to drunken knuckleheads having a vague notion of what they are supposed to be doing and because this is a false flag event as ascertained by MSM outcries and pointing fingers before any data could be analyzed.

Any projectile-impacts expert(s) around?

[Cidersomerset]

If this was what actually happened and one of the Ukrainian jets hit one of the engines of MH17. Then i would say Ukraine at all costs would attempt to cover this up. Maybe as far as stupidly trying to swap an engine.

Thinking out loud here.

peace

That could be why they are pressing to get control of the Crash site,
even though they agreed to leave the area alone so the flight
investigators could get on with there work.

Could be coincidence but as the report says below the Ukrainian
president said they would not attack near the crash site,,,,,


Fighting near MH17 crash site hinders Dutch team visit

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=IZn5ts8imgI

===================================================



RAW: E. Ukraine city of Gorlovka under heavy bombardment
.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bvYGm3a3UlQ

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
That could be why they are pressing to get control of the Crash site,
even though they agreed to leave the area alone so the flight
investigators could get on with there work.

Could be coincidence but as the report says below the Ukrainian
president said they would not attack near the crash site,,,,,

What a bunch of morons, the site was basically safe enough to get investigaters in there until they started shelling the area....this is beyond idiotic......

It totally looks like they want to destroy whats left there and say, "whoops, rouge shell landed on crash site"

friggin morons, friggin guilty covering their tracks morons.....

[linksplatinum]

White House Has 24 Hours to Disprove
—

… by  Gordon Duff, Senior Editor
—

Reporting on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17  has become childish, irresponsible and many have actually decided to invent wild stories even worse than the government/AIPAC lies.

Some such stories are on Veterans Today, stories totally unresearched, stories that are groundless and based on speculation and bad brain chemistry.  Such stories push our editorial limits as they are no more than spam.

We have made note of several findings thus far.  We have noted that were a missile used, an exhaust trail would have been visible for many miles and would have been photographed.  It was not and, thus, never existed.  Locals were questioned, none saw a launch nor exhausts.

The Russians have finally allowed someone to send us their video of MH17.  Judge for yourself.  We stick to “bomb” but are taking this under advisement:

[ Note: What you will be watching below is not a black and white image but infared one. Hotter items show up as white. What looks like a launch smoke plume is not...but the infared heat signature. If  you rewatch it and freeze at the beginning you will see the white hot spot dot where the launcher was in the tree line. There is a smoke plume, very visible, loud, and more visible as it gets higher...Jim W. Dean ]

See link_ http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/27/notes-on-mh17/

[Tesseract]

The technology exists to rapidly identify the original explosive by analysis of residue on the wreckage (if there really were a bomb on board). In fact, Australia happens to be a leader in this technology. Australia has sent some police over, however I doubt that they will be open to the idea that there was a bomb on board, so it is hard to say if they will take any samples for chemical analysis.

[sigma6]

Quote from Veteran's Today article above...

The failure to recognize a pattern of activity from the repulsive new Egyptian government and their role in Gaza to the bizarre comedy act in Mosul to the Tel Aviv based oligarchs now ruling Ukraine, a failure by the press, by all the press, by governments certainly, is astounding.

- more support for Pieczenik theory... (think Murder on the Orient Express)
- "the fix is in..."

...there is nothing knew under the sun...

I wonder if Poroshenko and his Right Sector Neo Nazi's see the writing on the wall... and now Kolomoisky is on the radar... labeled as the 'Cypriot Terrorist Leader' ?
(at least he can afford some protection)

[Cidersomerset]

The violence is stepping up..........


Dozens killed in latest Kiev army shelling in E. Ukraine's Gorlovka

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GBy71V-SUng

Published on 27 Jul 2014


WARNING content contains graphic images.
Kiev's army is contuining their crackdown of anti-govt forces in the East of Ukraine.
Urban areas are being caught in its deadly fire. There are reports from the city of
Gorlovka where the latest shelling has killed at least 13 civilians with some media
suggesting the death toll could be higher.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Ukrainian gov't should stop using Grad rockets in populated areas'

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cHXLvV0VEnA

Published on 27 Jul 2014


Human Rights Watch said that the Ukrainian army may have committed a war crime
when it kill16 civilians with unguided grad missiles. The group says that the grad
systems are just too inaccurate to be used on populated areas. HRW is calling on
both sides in the conflict to stop using this kind of weapon if it wanted to avoid civilian
casualties. One of the authors of the report said the Ukrainian military should be held
accountable for the killing of civilians.

[sigma6]

All residential targets, and let me guess, according to the US backed Neo Nazis this is technically "legal"...

This is what happens when you follow the letter of the law, as opposed to the spirit of the law.
Everything is a technicality. Which is what the US/Israeli media hamburger grinder has been
cranking out since the first "insinuation" (created by a British ambassador in Australia.... get it? get it? LOL)
followed by the reification of insinuations into "plausible theories", and then the reification of "plausible theories"
into "justified interpretations" which are now being used to coerce and provide a "rationale" (which is really
a rationalization for sanctions. (And there's the money payoff)

I never thought I would see the day a US propped up government would be using guerrilla terrorist tactics
against civilians. I need to listen to the latest talking head "harf" out a technical interpretation why this
is perfectly acceptable... cause I couldn't even twist this one into a viable platitude.

I am waiting for Eastern Ukrainians to start counter attacking the West. Cause I know if I was one of them, I would sure as hell be thinking about it... Like Pieczenik said. They are trying to instill fear in you, you have to understand how to serve it back to them...

And everything being equal and everything notwithstanding,
let truth overcome evil.

[Selene]

Posted by Sigma6
I never thought I would see the day a US propped up government would be using guerrilla terrorist tactics
against civilians. I need to listen to the latest talking head "harf" out a technical interpretation why this
is perfectly acceptable... cause I couldn't even twist this one into a viable platitude.

Exactly. it's that bad. And that laughable.

But maybe we should just begin laughing? Either way would work, perhaps....?

What a mess. But:

We. will. prevail.

Keep onward, my friends. Keep pointing fingers at the Naked Emperor......

Cheers,

Selene

[Operator]

Posted by Tesseract (here)
The technology exists to rapidly identify the original explosive by analysis of residue on the wreckage (if there really were a bomb on board). In fact, Australia happens to be a leader in this technology. Australia has sent some police over, however I doubt that they will be open to the idea that there was a bomb on board, so it is hard to say if they will take any samples for chemical analysis.

If the bomb was brought on board by the guys in suits then there will never be clues found to indicate this.
The investigation is lead by the Dutch, that's where the plane left. They could have started the investigation
there but didn't. Being shot down over a wartime area was the first intentional distraction.

When the Bijlmerramp was investigated the (inexperienced) parliamentary investigation committee was
sidetracked all the time. Covering their tracks is already taken care of. Black boxes are in the UK ...

Like 9/11 it is more important to learn and expose that the official storyline stinks and detect how they
are spinning the storyline to benefit from it. Otherwise it will end as a fight between the different
streams of truth seekers and we're all put in the conspiracy theorists corner again.

The next important indication is the question why the Kiev officials are stepping down and acts of war
are increased in the area of the crash site.