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Thread: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Serial numbers of missile that downed MH17 show it was produced in 1986, owned by Ukraine - Russia

    RT
    Published time: 17 Sep, 2018 09:05
    Edited time: 17 Sep, 2018 11:33
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    File photo. Dutch experts at the crash site of flight MH17 in 2014. © Aleksey Kudenko / Sputnik

    The serial numbers found on debris of the Buk missile which downed Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine show it was produced in 1986, the Russian military said. The projectile was owned by Ukraine, they added.

    There are two serial numbers found on fragments of the missile, which shot down the passenger airliner in June 2014 according to an international team of investigators led by the Netherlands. The numbers were marked on the engine and the nozzle of the missile.

    The Russian military on Monday said they had traced them to a missile which had the producer serial number 8868720.


    Speaking to journalists, Gen. Nikolay Parshin showed a document trail of the Buk missile. According to the documents, some of which have been declassified for the presentation, it was produced at a military plant in Dolgoprudny in the Moscow region in 1986.


    Serial number on engine and nozzle of the missile.

    The missile was shipped from the plant on December 29, 1986 and delivered to military unit 20152 located in what is now Ukraine. It is now called 223rd anti-aircraft defense regiment of the Ukrainian armed forces, the report said. The unit took part in Kiev's crackdown on rebels in eastern Ukraine in June 2014, the general said.

    The evidence disproves the accusations by Ukraine and some other parties, which claim that a missile fired by a launcher, secretly delivered from Russia, was responsible for the downing of MH17, the Ministry of Defense report said. All the materials have been sent to the Dutch investigators, the Russian military added.


    MIssilye shipment records found in Russia.

    The Russian military also challenges video footage used by the UK-based group Bellingcat, which calls itself a citizen journalism organization, to back its allegations about the delivery of the Buk launcher from Russia. The Defense Ministry showed a video clip with some of the footage, highlighting inconsistencies, which it said proved that the footage had been manipulated to place images of the launcher into background which were not in the original.

    The Bellingcat investigation was featured in the latest update by Dutch prosecutors involved in the MH17 investigation, prompting the Russian military to study it in detail, they said. The Russian video showed an example of how an Abrams tank can be shown to be carried by a trailer in the streets of Ukraine in the same way.


    Analysis of Bellingcat footage by Russian experts.

    The third part of the presentation was what the Russian officials called a record of intercepted communications of Ukrainian officials discussing, in 2016, the risk of flying through restricted airspace over Ukraine. Among a barrage of complaints one phrase says unless the restrictions are respected "we'll f***ing f**k up another Malaysian Boeing".

    The Russian military say the complaints came from Col. Ruslan Grinchak, who serves in a brigade responsible for radar control of the Ukrainian airspace. His unit tracked the MH17 flight in 2014, so he may have information which is not publicly available about the disaster.



    Information on a Col. Ruslan Grinchak shown by the Russian military.

    Gen. Igor Konashenkov, who hosted the briefing, said that Ukraine failed to provide radar data from its stations to the Dutch investigators. He also suggested that archive documents from the Ukrainian unit, which received the Buk missile back in 1986, would be of use to the probe, unless Kiev claims that they are no longer available. He stressed rules are in place which mean that such documents should still be stored in Ukraine.

    The Russian military said they had no evidence to disprove a scenario, involving the Ukrainian rebels capturing the missile from the Ukrainian army, but pointed out that Ukrainian officials publicly denied anything like this had ever happened.

    Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, falling in the rebel-held part of the country. The crash claimed the lives of 283 passengers and 15 crew members, most of them Dutch nationals. Russia was blamed by Western media in the first days after the tragedy, even before any evidence had been collected on the ground.

    The Joint Investigation Team, which is lead by the Netherlands, includes Ukraine, but not Russia. Moscow believes that the investigation is biased, failing to obtain all necessary evidence from Ukraine and relying on questionable sources while ignoring evidence provided by Russia, which doesn't fit the theory favored by Kiev and its foreign sponsors.

    Related:
    Moscow can’t accept ‘unfounded conclusions’ on MH17 downing – Russia’s UN envoy
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    MH17: Ukraine's guilt decisively proven?

    Eric Zuesse Strategic Culture Foundation
    Tue, 01 Jan 2019 20:43 UTC



    Finally, a clear and convincing - and unrefuted - case can now be presented to the public, as to precisely whom the guilty party was, that downed the MH17 Malaysian airliner over Ukraine on 17 July 2014, and why it was done. The complete case, which will be fully documented here, displays unequivocally who needed the MH17 murders (of 298 persons) to be perpetrated. This mass-murder was done for one leader's very pressing obsession. For him, it simply had to be done, and done at that precise time.

    The full MH17 case will be presented here, to be judged by the public, because no court of law which possesses the power to bring this (or even any) case on the MH17 murders, is willing to do so, and because the evidence in this 17 July 2014 case has become overwhelming, and is unrefuted. This evidence is accepted by both sides. But it still remains effectively hidden from the publics in the United States and its allied countries. (The present news-report, which is the first ever to present this entire case, is submitted to all news-media in English-speaking countries, so that any of them that wishes to provide its audience access to this uncontested and conclusive evidence in the MH17 case can do so, by publishing this article. Any of them that won't, don't want their audience to have access to the conclusive evidence in this case, because this article is being made available to all of them to publish, free of charge; so, there is no other reason not to publish it.)

    The complete evidence will be described, and all of the conclusive evidence is linked-to, proving who perpetrated, and who demanded, the shoot-down on 17 July 2014 of the Malaysian airliner MH17.

    This article will start by demonstrating the most important thing, and will demonstrate it by means of links to the most conclusive evidence of all. This is the evidence which absolutely proves that the official Netherlands-headed investigation into this matter is an intentional and utter fraud - a fraud which has already been conclusively answered and exposed by the Russian Government. (Netherlands headed the investigation because 196 of the 298 murder-victims were Dutch.) Russia's response provided, in excruciating detail, not only clear disproofs of the Netherlands-headed investigation's conclusions of Russian guilt, but also (and on the basis of the very same evidence that the official investigation had made public on 24 May 2018) provided the still-unrefuted (but nonetheless still effectively hidden) proofs of Ukraine's actual and incontestable guilt, in this mass-murder. This evidence, of the Netherlands team's fraudulence, carries the investigation a large part of the way toward its ultimate conclusion, regarding whom the person was who had demanded Ukraine to commit this crime.

    Incidentally, the Netherlands Government had partially funded the coup that in February 2014 overturned Ukraine's Government and installed the new regime, which regime is allied with the United States Government and actually perpetrated the MH17 shoot-down. The Government of Netherlands is not a neutral in this case that it is judging. It had helped install the present regime in Ukraine. In fact, as you can see here, Netherlands' Government had been the largest single contributor to Ukraine's Hromadske TV, which was propagandizing to exterminate the residents in Ukraine's former Donbass region, which breakaway region had voted over 90% for Ukraine's Democratically elected President, whom Obama's coup had just overthrown. This operation in Ukraine is an extension from the corrupt Nazi Prince Bernhard's having established in Netherlands in 1954 the secretive Bilderberg group to coordinate NATO's efforts for the US and its allies to conquer ultimately the world. He got caught in 1976, for one of his skimming operations, a million-dollar kickback from Lockheed Corporation. Holland's Deep State is anything but benign.


    Hromadske TV is financed directly by US and Dutch embassies.

    So, Russia's response, on 17 September 2018, used that Netherlands-headed team's own documentation, to disprove that team's attribution of guilt to Russia, and to prove conclusively Ukraine's guilt as having been the actual perpetrator of this mass-murder. Thus, the Netherlands-headed team includes the actual perpetrator, Ukraine, and not only the Netherlands Government, which had helped overthrow Ukraine's prior and democratically elected Government and bring Ukraine's current regime into power in February 2014, just months prior to the MH17 shoot-down, which resulted from that US coup.

    Most readers who click onto the links here will be shocked. What will shock them is the evidence, because it has not been published in The West (except summarized in less than a half-dozen obscure news-media - and, even there, generally not documented, such as it is here).

    The links will document and fully prove this stunning turnabout, from Russia to Ukraine. The documentation that was cited by Ukraine and Ukraine's fellow team-member (the team's leader) Netherlands, against Russia, on May 24th of 2018, contained previously unrecognized details (which were first pointed out in the Russian presentation on September 17th of 2018) which irrefutably convict Ukraine. Consequently, Russia's response was ignored in The West, despite that presentation's having been based upon the very same items of evidence that had been introduced by the Netherlands-led team on May 24th. Thus, the items of evidence, there, are the same that the Netherlands-led team had themselves provided. The items of evidence here are not in dispute.

    The current article will be the first-ever to hone-in on the especially shocking key data in Russia's data-packed September 17th response, the key evidence that Russia was calling attention to there, and which prove Ukraine's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt - prove it on the basis of the very same evidence that had been introduced by Ukraine's own team in their presentation four months earlier. Using the other side's evidence to convict that other side is what makes this denouement the stunning turnabout that it is.

    The Netherlands-headed Ukrainian team still refuses to answer the Russian presentation, which responds to the Ukrainian team's May 24th presentation. Western 'news'-media have likewise almost completely ignored Russia's response. (One Dutch medium did report on it but dismissed it by focusing on a subordinate part: their report said and focused on "Russia now claims that the video images the investigators used to track the missile's transport to the Ukraine, were manipulated." However, the part of Russia's presentation that will be discussed in the present article was being entirely ignored in that Dutch news-report, which, as you will see here, has nothing to do with any claim of manipulated evidence. Britain's BBC likewise focused-in on the "manipulated evidence" that Russia's presentation had attacked. The Washington Post instead headlined "Who spread disinformation about the MH17 crash? We followed the Twitter trail", and it focused-in on how polarized the public is over the MH17 case. The West's 'news'-coverage was virtually entirely misdirection and disinformation, as you will recognize from what follows here. And the evidence here is linked-to, so that you can see it for yourself.)

    Russia's response documented beyond any question, at all, that this airliner was shot down by the Ukrainian Government, and that Western (i.e., US-allied) 'news'media have been and are covering up this crucial historical fact and The West's still-ongoing lies about the downing of MH17.

    Those lies are the basis of US and EU anti-Russia sanctions, which remain in effect despite the basis for those sanctions having been exposed unequivocally, on September 17th, to be based on lies. Thus, continuing to hide those lies is crucial to the liars. This is the reason why Russia's blazingly detailed presentation on September 17th has been virtually ignored - to protect the actually guilty. The evidence here proves that those sanctions, themselves, are nothing but frauds against the public, and crimes against Russia - ongoing additional crimes, which have been, and remain, effectively hidden till now.

    The reader can see and consider here all of the conclusive evidence in the MH17 case - it can be reached via the present article's links. Unlike the 'news'-reports in The West's 'news'-media, the presentation here is not presuming readers' trust, but is instead providing to all readers access to the actual evidence - evidence that is accepted by both sides. That's what the links here are for: examination by any skeptics.

    Skepticism in judging anything is not only good; it is essential to justice. Trust should never be given; it should only be earned. Otherwise, no democracy can function. Only dictatorship can function in a country that's controlled by lies, and by liars. Liars are believed by people who have faith in them. Thus, faith in anything or anyone can poison judgment. The way to test the case that is presented here is to click onto a link wherever one wants to see and examine the evidence. Without examining (usually by spot-checking) the evidence, no reader can intelligently judge any case. Dictatorship is almost inevitable in a counry where spot-checking of the actual evidence isn't the norm. Most 'news'-media don't even enable such spot-checking. This is why 'news'-media are so often actually propaganda-media instead.

    So, here's the complete MH17 case, for any reader to judge:
    The last announcement from the official investigation, the Netherlands-headed "Joint Investigative Team" (JIT), was on 24 May 2018, and it headlined "Update in criminal investigation MH17 disaster". It said:
    The JIT is convinced that the BUK-TELAR [missile and launcher] that was used to down MH17, originates from the 53rd Anti Aircraft Missile brigade (hereinafter 53rd brigade), a unit of the Russian army from Kursk in the Russian Federation. ... This fingerprint has been compared with numerous images of BUK-TELARS, both Ukrainian and Russian ones. The only BUK-TELAR on which this combination of characteristics also was found, is a BUK-TELAR that was recorded several times when it joined a convoy of the 53rd brigade on 23 - 25 June 2014.

    Consequently, the JIT presumes that within the 53rd brigade and within the circle around it, people have knowledge about the operation in which that particular BUK-TELAR was deployed. ... Already in September 2016, the JIT disclosed that MH17 was downed with a BUK missile of the 9M38 series. ...

    The missile engine's casing shows the number 9 д 1318869032.
    Typical of Western 'news'-media's coverage of that presentation, was CNN's report the same day, May 24th of 2018. It was headlined "Missile that downed MH17 'owned by Russian brigade'". It stated: "'At the time this area was under control of pro-Russian separatists,' said Fred Westerbeke, chief prosecutor of the National Prosecutor's Office of the Netherlands. The Buk launcher of the 9M38 series 'was transported from the territory of the Russian Federation and was returned to that territory of the Russian Federation afterwards'."

    The Ukrainian side claimed they had finally found evidence which would enable them definitively to place the blame for the MH17 shoot-down on Russia. So, the very next day, May 25th, Britain's Telegraph bannered "Netherlands and Australia call for compensation for MH17 victims as they accuse Russia of downing plane" and reported that "Australia and the Netherlands have said they hold Russia legally responsible for the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight 17 over Ukraine in 2014 and will seek reparations for relatives of the 298 people killed." This demand against Russia was coming "the day after the Dutch-led international investigation concluded that the Russian military had deployed the Buk surface-to-air missile that shot down the plane."

    Four months later, on 17 September 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense youtubed its response, which is titled "Briefing on newly discovered evidence pertaining to the crash of the MH17 flight". It presented the actual history of the Buk missile and launcher which Ukraine and the other Governments on the JIT said had brought down the MH17. (The JIT includes four countries, Netherlands, Ukraine, Belgium, and Australia, with a fifth, Malaysia, having been brought in only later, after it finally agreed to allow Ukraine a veto over any conclusions that the team will publish. Malaysia's participation started on 4 December 2014; but whether Malaysia has actually been allowed to play a role in the 'investigation' isn't clear.) Russia, during the intervening months after the JIT's May 24th presentation, had tracked down all of those serial numbers, 8868720, and 1318869032, and 9M38, and found (as you can see there by clicking on each, especially onto the "Briefing" itself) that after the acquisition of the launcher and missile, by Ukraine in 1986, from Russia, that missile and its launcher had always, and constantly since their transfer to Ukraine in 1986, remained in Ukraine, and never again were located in Russia. So: if the JIT's supplied evidence is authentic - which the Ukrainian team asserts it to be - then it outright convicts Ukraine. This is an evidentiary checkmate, against the Ukrainian side.

    With the passage now of years, the precise cause of the shooting-down of the Malaysian passenger plane MH17 on 17 July 2014 has been becoming clearer and clearer, despite the rigorous continuing attempts by Western 'news' media to cover it up and to hide from the public the growing and by-now irrefutable evidence (presented here) that clearly shows what and who actually brought down this airliner.

    In the years since I headlined on August 24th of 2014 the news, "MH-17 'Investigation': Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out: Perpetrator of the Downing in Ukraine, of the Malaysian Airliner, Will Stay Hidden", the key fact about the official 'investigation' has actually been that the Government of Ukraine was, on 8 August 2014, granted veto-power over any official finding which would be produced by the Joint Investigative Team. On 20 November 2014, Russian Television headlined "Dutch government refuses to reveal 'secret deal' into MH17 crash probe" and reported that Holland's science-publishers Elsevier had filed for this information under that country's Freedom of Information Act, and the Government simply refused to comply with that law. The leaders of Western nations apparently want the black-box and much other basic data in their possession to remain hidden, and the four nations had signed this secret agreement to allow the Government of Ukraine to block any report that incriminates Ukraine in the MH17 shoot-down. But additional evidence has nonetheless become public, and all of it confirms and adds yet further details to the explanation that was first put forth by the retired German Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko, whose independent investigation had concluded that Ukrainian Government fighter-jets intentionally shot down this civilian plane. He did not rule out the possibility that a Buk missile had simultaneously been used there, but he made clear that at least one fighter-jet had been used in this shoot-down.


    5 perfectly aligned bullet holes in piece of MH17 wreckage

    However, if those parts of a Buk missile, which were the focus of the Netherlands team's presentation on May 24th, were indeed retrieved from the crash-site as that team claims, then a Buk missile had also hit the MH17. Serious question would nonetheless exist as to whether that Buk was fired by troops who were working for Ukraine, or instead for Russia (or else for Donbas separatists who were working in conjunction with Russia, which was Ukraine's and America's original version of the event).

    Precisely what the method was, by which the direct perpetrators brought down the MH17, has gradually become clearer, despite this continuation of Western secrecy (and Ukraine's veto-power over the 'findings') regarding the contents of the black boxes, and of the US satellite images, and of the Ukrainian air-traffic-control radar recordings, and of other evidence-sources that are still being held secret by The West and not made available to their 'news' media nor to anyone outside a tight official circle of those Western nations' intelligence agencies.

    But now, Russia has actually - on 17 September 2018 - exposed the outright fraudulence of the JIT's 24 May 2018 presentation, and The West (the US Government's allies) entirely ignored the conclusive evidence that that presentation by the JIT itself actually contained and to which Russia was pointing, so that there can no longer be reasonable doubt about The West's intentional and still ongoing fraudulence regarding the entire MH17 matter.

    Also entirely ignored in the Ukrainain team's 'explanation' of the event is why Ukraine's air-traffic control had guided the MH17's pilot to fly over the conflict-zone where Ukraine's civil war was being waged and where Ukraine's war-planes were bombing. The MH17's pilot was instructed by Ukraine's air-traffic control to take that path instead of the one that the airline had planned and that had become normal during the civil war. This was highly abnormal, and it doomed the MH17. Clearly, only Ukraine's Government could, and did, do that - change the route, and for only that one plane. Yet, still, the Netherlands-headed team blames Russia and is trusted in The West, but Russia is not. (Now, why would that be?)


    Is this proof that MH17 change course into a war zone? A route map compiled by Twitter user Vagelis Karmiros using data from flight-tracking website Flightaware claims to show how the doomed Malaysia Airlines plane took a different flightpath to the ones taken by the previous ten MH17 flights

    Russia has constantly been releasing its own investigations regarding MH-17; and, in the process, Russia on September 17th not only provided further details as to how the downing actually happened (it wasn't by mistake, as the West contends it was), but they have also, in prior presentations, exposed the absurd impossibility of the Ukrainian Government's 'explanation' of this event (that only a Buk had been used), which is the 'explanation' that is still being parroted unquestioningly and unflinchingly by officials in Washington, Europe, and NATO, and also by Western 'news' media. (As my news-report on 24 August 2014 explained, that secret August 8th agreement was signed by the four governments which formed the JIT team and which had been handed by Malaysia the black boxes to study - Ukraine, Belgium, Australia, and Netherlands - and the JIT granted to the Ukrainian Government a veto over anything that the team's official report would say. This is probably the reason why the subsequent officially released report on those black boxes said essentially nothing. It was a brazen insult to the 298 victims' families. The presumption has been that all of them will have faith, not be skeptical, regarding the JIT team.)

    Though Russia doesn't possess those black boxes (which, by chance, were handed by the pro-Russian separatists to the Malaysian Government's representative, and yet that Government handed them to Netherland's Government instead of to Russia's - apparently trusting Netherlands more than trusting Russia or even themselves), Russia does possess, and publicly reveals, evidence that's conclusive on its own; and it is 100% consistent with Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, regardless whether a Buk was involved or not. Russian Television had issued in October 2014 a 25-minute documentary on the event, and it starts with people whom they interviewed in that region, who were describing their having seen at least one and perhaps two planes rising toward the airliner, and then the airliner coming down from the sky. Other witnesses told them that they saw an SU-25 fighter plane take off in that general area just minutes before the airliner came down.

    First, the missing BBC report:
    The BBC had previously posted to their website on 23 July 2014, just six days after the event itself, a news report in Russian via their Russian service (fortunately archived by Global Research), about the downing, but they quickly removed it without explanation. Fortunately, however, some Russian-speakers had managed to download it before it was yanked; and at least two of those downloads were posted to youtube, the first one having been posted there on 28 July 2014, with English subscripts, and with the headline, "UKRAINE Eyewitness Confirm Military Jet Flew Besides MH17 Airliner: BBC Censors Video 25Jul2014". (It's gone now, but, actually, several witnesses, and not just one, were interviewed there - there wasn't just one "Eyewitness".) Furthermore, Global Research posted on 10 September 2014 a transcript of it, headlining, "Deleted BBC Report. 'Ukrainian Fighter Jet Shot Down MHI7', Donetsk Eyewitnesses." (The video itself is still at youtube and it will be linked-to just below here, so that you will be able to view it.)

    [Ed. note: The BBC videos have been taken down.]

    The interviews by the BBC were done by their reporter Olga Ivshina. (Also see http://archive.is/vFoh9.) She had filmed local residents in the crash-debris area. In one passage of her 23 July 2014 news-report, there were two residents simultaneously who described what they had seen. One of them said, "And there was another aircraft." The other continued immediately, in order to describe the other plane, "a military one, beside it ['it' being the airliner]. Everybody saw it. It was proceeding underneath below the civilian one."

    Here is the second, and clearer, version of that clip. (It's the one that's still live at youtube.) The key portion on it is at 0:38-042 in the video:

    That was the 9 September 2014 repost of it, with the same subscript-translation into English, only the visual is sharper.

    And here is an apology, dated 25 July 2014, by the BBC, for their having removed their original video of this interview - and yet they still didn't repost it; they still continue to blockade it; even today the only versions available, of these, the earliest recorded interviews of people who said they witnessed the event, are the independently posted ones, but here is the BBC's apology:

    Удаленный с сайта Би-би-си репортаж доработан ("Deleted from the BBC website report reportage")

    Here, then, is that BBC apology google-translated into English.

    So: clearly, BBC has done all that they could to remove evidence, which they had mistakenly broadcast, which had fit the retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, and which contradicted the US-Ukrainian reconstruction of it - the reconstruction that Western 'news' media project, and on the basis of which US President Barack Obama won from the EU stiff increases in, and subsequent extensions of, the economic sanctions against Russia, all on the basis of lies.

    So, this valuable eyewitness-testimony to the MH17 event is available despite Western 'news' media (or, more-accurately, propaganda-media), and the reason for the news-suppression is clear to anyone who views that BBC 23 July 2014 report, which presents several eyewitnesses, interviewed separately as individuals, not as a group, and yet all of whose testimonies - perhaps despite Ivshina's wish for them not to say this - report having observed the very same basic narrative, of at least one military jet rising toward the airliner just before it came down.

    In other words: it is clear that BBC had yanked this report because it didn't confirm the West's story-line, which says that Ukrainian pro-Russian separatists had fired a "Buk" ground-based missile at the airliner, thinking that the civilian plane was a Ukrainian Government war-plane about to bomb them and their families. But, first of all, the Ukrainian Government was virtually admitting there that they were bombing these villagers, which means that they were perpetrating an ethnic cleansing operation there, which indeed that Government was doing; but, secondly, the Ukrainian Government's statement also acknowledged that if the event had happened in that way, it would have been unintentional, a tragic accident on the part of the rebels there. (The JIT's line now is that it was instead an outright Russian attack against the MH17.)

    So, then, why did "the international community" respond with massive economic sanctions against Russia on account of this downing - by, as it turns out, Ukraine? The whole Western propaganda position was designed for a public of sheer fools, if not of outright psychopathic ones, who cared not a bit about the plights of the victims of an ethnic-cleansing campaign. They cared only about victims in "The West." The West's basic story-line doesn't make sense without recognizing that we were financing ethnic cleansing to clear the land in southeastern Ukraine, and that any support that Russia would be providing to those separatists would have been defensive in nature, not offensive. Yet Russia gets the blame when this passenger jet goes down? Even though Ukraine's air-traffic control had guided the pilot there? In any case, that story-line of Russian guilt is false, from start to finish. And now (at least after 17 September 2018) it is finished. But Western 'news'-media still continue to broadcast the lies, as if it weren't.

    Here is how outright ludicrous it actually is, and sound reason in itself that anyone in the military had to have known, from the very get-go, that the "Buk" 'explanation' was a line of pure malarkey:

    The Russian documentary:
    The 22 October 2014 Russian documentary was titled, "MH-17: The Untold Story," and it presents, among much else, videos of several "Buk" missiles being fired on other occasions, just to show how utterly ludicrous the initial Ukraine-US-and-allied 'explanation of the MH17 event was. On 5 November 2014, I summarized that, with screen-shots from the Russian documentary:
    So, when even the BBC's reporter wasn't able to find anyone in that entire region who recounts having seen anything of the sort, just how likely would the Ukrainian Government's line on that matter - that not only was this done by a lone Buk but it was fired by (at first) pro-Russian separatists, and (then) by the Russian army - actually be? Obviously, any person with any military knowledge whatsoever had to have recognized virtually immediately that the Ukrainian Government's story-line on the MH-17 downing was a pile of sheer malarkey, but did anyone in the Western 'news' media report that it was - that the Western line there was not just a lie, but an absurd one, one that requires an ignorant public in order for it to be able to be taken seriously at all by the public? One that requires an ignorant public, to remain ignorant? This is supposed to be the Western 'news' media, with a free press, and a democracy, a truthfully informed citizenry, who can vote based upon truths, not on mere lies?

    © RT

    Here is the way that the Russian TV documentary opens:


    © RT/Screenshot

    Several of the locals there told Russian TV's reporter that they had seen a military jet rise toward the airliner; and not a one of these individuals were any of the same ones who had testified the exact same thing to the BBC's reporter, whose news-piece had been squelched by her managers.

    Here is how MH17 was shot down:
    Now, to the substance of the explanation of how this plane was actually brought down:


    MH17 cockpit with evidence of bullet holes

    Earlier, I had summarized the evidence for Peter Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, but I questioned his having accepted the eyewitness testimony to the effect that the planes that shot down the airliner were SU-25s. In Haisenko's Russian TV interview, he stuck by his belief that it was probably SU-25s instead of SU-27s or Mig 29s, both of which are also in the Ukrainian Air Force, and all three of which use 30-millimeter machine-guns or "cannons." But since the fact is that all three of those attack-plane models use machine-guns ("cannons") with 30-caliber bullets (which is the size that clearly was used, especially on the cockpit), the effect would be identically-sized round 30-caliber entry-holes, no matter what. My last major report on that evidence, prior to the 8 August 2014 formation of the JIT and their mutual agreement to report nothing that would be incriminating to Ukraine's Government regarding the MH17 incident, was "Systematically Reconstructing the Shoot-Down of the Malaysian Airliner: The Guilt Is Clear and Damning." That basically fills in (and the links, in that report, document with pictures and videos that) the actual way that this plane was downed, and that why it was downed was "to get the EU to go along with stiffened sanctions against Russia". Obama (via the regime that he had installed in a February 2014 coup in Kiev) succeeded there in getting the international sanctions against Russia that he had been wanting. Obama, and certainly not Putin - and now we know it wasn't Russia at all (not even if a Buk was involved) - was the key person behind this. The 298 MH17 murder-victims on 17 July 2014 were murdered by Barack Obama (via his agents such as Victoria Nuland - she ran Obama's Ukrainian operation), just as clearly as (if not even more clearly than) Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman al-Saud (via his agents at the Sauds' Istanbul Consulate) murdered Jamal Khashoggi on 2 October 2018.

    International actions (such as economic sanctions) are based upon such fabrications, and 'evidence' taken out of its full context, as this from the far-right Forbes commentator Paul Roderick Gregory, but there are no such fakes, nor out-of-context items of evidence, in the case that has been presented here. That's the difference between news-reporting versus propaganda; but, in the United States today, propaganda passes as if it were 'news,' and authentic news that doesn't fit the regime's cooked-up narrative is suppressed entirely. The scandal isn't just Obama, and it's not just Ukraine; it is also the propaganda-organs, and even (though to the least extent) their audiences who subscribe to such lying 'news'-media.

    Western governments, and their 'news' media, are treating their citizens, their own publics, not really as citizens, but as suckers. They are treating them as subjects, instead of as citizens. This is not authentic democracy. It is neo-feudal; it is, in fact, fascism.


    MH17 cockpit bullet holes detail

    The entire "Buk" 'explanation' of the downing of the Malaysian airliner (the idea that only a Buk missile caused the physical wreckage which was found) is for suckers only; and everyone in official circles, and in the press, who peddles it, is just as fake as the ridiculous story-line that he or she is peddling. To fall for it, after being provided all of the authentic evidence, which has been linked-to here, one would have to be a willing slave to psychopaths. In this case, the psychopath was Obama, who not only had perpetrated a bloody coup to overthrow the democratically elected President of Ukraine in February 2014 but who also was now struggling, and had a very pressing obsession, to get the EU to accept his sanctions against Russia for its having accepted the pleas of Crimeans (who had voted 75% for that President) to become restored again to Russia. The 14 July 2014 mass-murder that was set up to be blamed against Russia was Obama's trick that enabled him to win his way on this.

    Conclusions:
    By no means do we know every detail about how the MH17 was shot down, but what we do now know for certain is that the narrative for that event which was supplied by Ukraine's team on May 24th - the official account of how it happened - isn't just false; it is outright fraudulent. Ukraine's team supplied evidence which, if it is authentic, actually convicts Ukraine. And Western 'news'-media hide this crucial fact.

    So, now, we know why Western governments have hidden, instead of making available to the public, the black-box data and the other evidence that they still refuse to provide to the public. They are aiming to scam the public, not to inform it. Lying is their game. They might call it 'patriotism.' Traitors would likely do that. Traitors to any country could do it. And, so, they do. Their believers constitute their political base.

    Unfortunately, anyone they fool becomes their tool, and everyone else is purely their victim - helpless to oust (much less, to replace) the tyrants who make things bad for everyone but themselves and their colleagues, the insiders at the very top.

    Just the day before the MH17 shoot-down, Bloomberg News had headlined, on 16 July 2014, "EU Readies Russia Sanctions Amid US Pressure on Ukraine", and reported that "the US urges the bloc to take a tougher stance against Moscow." The day before that, on July 15th, Bloomberg's headline had been "EU Leaders Weigh Sanctions Against Russia Over Ukraine", and that report opened,
    "European Union leaders meeting in Brussels will consider expanded sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine conflict, as the US urges the bloc to take a tougher stand against Moscow."
    Was the July 17th event only coincidentally timed perfectly in order to achieve what Obama was determined to produce: the first Ukraine-based anti-Russia sanctions? The regime that Obama had installed in Ukraine in February 2014 needed not only his support, but also the support of the IMF (in order to obtain loans), and of the EU (which it was seeking to join). There was probably even more pressure placed upon the leaders in Ukraine than there was upon the leaders in the EU. But there was plenty upon them both. The EU was widely reported to be balking at increasing the sanctions against Russia. Obama needed the EU to approve quickly his increased sanctions, so as to keep the momentum going for his entire anti-Russian campaign, which had been the reason behind his February 2014 coup in Ukraine. Something dramatic now was needed, in order for Obama to win the EU's full cooperation. After all, Obama had secretly started at least by 2011 his operation to take over Ukraine. This operation was, for him, one of the central objectives of his entire two-term Presidency. Ukraine - and Ukraine alone - now had within its power the capacity to deliver to him the EU's participation. Ukraine delivered it, precisely when it was the most urgently needed. This was essential in order for Ukraine to be able to enter the EU. And entering the EU would be essential in order for Ukraine to be able to enter NATO - the next key step in the Bilderbergers' plan.

    Continuing the sanctions is easier than originally imposing them was. On 22 December 2018, UAwire headlined "EU extends economic sanctions against Russia", and reported that on December 14th, the EU's sanctions against Russia, which are based upon alleged Russian aggressions in or against Ukraine, are being extended: UAwire noted "These measures were initially introduced on July 31, 2014 for one year in response to Russia's actions to destabilize the situation in Ukraine, and then strengthened in September 2014." The EU supports, and participates in, the US regime's lies and sanctions against Russia. These crimes and lies started as Obama's, but continued under his successor Trump, and have been also the EU's crimes throughout, by the EU's joining, instead of condemning, not only those sanctions but also the lies upon which those sanctions are based. The EU thus indirectly shares the US Government's guilt in the mass-murders that occurred on 17 July 2014.

    Perhaps the survivors' families and Malaysia Airlines (which is owned by the Malaysian Government), and their Governments, will file both civil and criminal charges now initially against Ukraine and its President Petro Poroshenko, and ultimately against Victoria Nuland, Barack Obama, and the United States, but also against the Dutch Government, for its collusion with the United States Government in its fraudulent 'investigation' that had pre-established blame against Russia. (However, the secret agreement that Malaysia signed to join the JIT might prohibit Malaysia from joining such suits.) Netherlands pre-established Russian blame especially by means of its 8 August 2014 secret four-party agreement (joined later by Malaysia's Government) to allow Ukraine, an actual suspect in this case, to hold veto power over the assignment of blame in this entire matter. However, not only the survivors of the 298 victims should be suing, but all of the victims should be represented in this case. There were also many violations of international laws. Obama's coup against Ukraine was one such. The MH17 shoot-down resulted from that coup, couldn't have occurred without it, and was an extension from it. That coup is thus an important part of the MH17 case.

    On 20 September 2017, the now 5 countries in the JIT signed a joint "Memorandum of Understanding" saying "Arrangements for signatories and other grieving nations to make financial contributions to the national proceedings in the Netherlands will be laid down in a financial memorandum of understanding," and that "This Memorandum will remain in effect for five years and will be automatically extended for successive five-year periods." So, they intend to continue their 'investigation' into MH17 until they can present to the world evidence that Russia did it. Perhaps before that happens, however, all of the victims and their children will already have passed away and this fraud and farce will finally end, as secretly as it began, and only few people will even care, any more, about it.

    Or will victims and their families, instead, initiate whatever legal proceedings they can, right now, against all members of the JIT, for their cover-up, and against the ringleaders, in the US, who demanded this mass-murder to be done, and against the perpetrators in Ukraine, who actually ordered and did it?

    Maybe they'll even be able to get Barack Obama to return to the Nobel committee their 2009 Peace Prize.

    The US regime masterminded this mass-murder in order to win the EU's support for sanctions against Russia, and the EU knowingly complied, and continues to comply, with the American regime's ongoing aggressions and lies against Russia. The 298 MH17 murder-victims are thus not only the US regime's victims, but vicariously victims also of the EU - and not, at all, of Russia. Russia was instead the real intended target of the possible Ukrainian Buk missile, and of the Ukrainian fighter-jets, that brought down the MH17. The MH17 victims were merely "collateral damage" in the US regime's secret decades-long and ongoing anti-Russia war. This is how today's America competes in the world, by playing very dirty, and getting away with it, helped by its allies, which endorse, and join in, the US regime's atrocities.

    Now, which major news-media in The West will report these solidly documented facts? Isn't it time, finally, that they should start doing that? Or, do they have no honor, at all?


    Related (video 2014):
    ​MH-17: the untold story Archived here: http://avalonlibrary.net/MH17_The_Untold_Story.mp4
    Last edited by Hervé; 2nd January 2019 at 21:14.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    MH17: Ukraine's guilt decisively proven?

    Eric Zuesse Strategic Culture Foundation
    Tue, 01 Jan 2019 20:43 UTC



    Finally, a clear and convincing - and unrefuted - case can now be presented to the public, as to precisely whom the guilty party was, that downed the MH17 Malaysian airliner over Ukraine on 17 July 2014, and why it was done. The complete case, which will be fully documented here, displays unequivocally who needed the MH17 murders (of 298 persons) to be perpetrated. This mass-murder was done for one leader's very pressing obsession. For him, it simply had to be done, and done at that precise time.
    This excellent article was also reposted more recently, on Zerohedge, at MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine's Guilt Now Proven
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I am still not convinced.
    The scene was obviously staged.
    It doesn't matter much who "shot down" the airplane as long as they can't explain how come the bodies on the ground were partly decomposed and leaking green fluid that glowed in the dark, and how they were of the wrong kind, and stripped of their clothes.
    A staged scene is a staged scene and not a crash site.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Ukrainian side involved in MH17 flight disaster over Donbass - former SBU officer

    TASS
    Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:25 UTC


    © Zurab Javakhadze/TASS

    Vasily Prozorov said it was his personal opinion and it relied on certain information

    The Ukrainian side was involved in the MH17 flight disaster over Donbass, a former officer of the Ukrainian security service SBU, Vasily Prozorov, told a news conference on Monday.

    "It is my personal opinion and it relies on certain information. The Ukrainian side is an accomplice to the Malaysian MH17 flight disaster," he said.

    "The amazingly prompt reaction of the Ukrainian leadership was the first thing that made me feel suspicious. My unequivocal opinion was President Pyotr Poroshenko and his press-service had prior knowledge of the affair. Secondly, hostilities had been underway for several months by then, but the airspace over the area was not closed," Prozorov said.

    In particular he emphasized the invariable response to all of his attempts to find out the circumstances of the disaster, for instance, a conversation with General Staff officers. The usual reply was: "Don't poke your nose into this business, if you don't wish to have problems."

    "Some information has leaked out in the end, though. On the basis of my own analysis I can speculate who was an accomplice in the crime and who was involved in concealing evidence. In my opinion, there were two men involved - the current deputy chief of the Ukrainian presidential staff Valery Kondratyuk and chief of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry's intelligence directorate, Vasily Burba."

    A passenger liner Boeing-777 of the Malaysia Airlines (Flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur) disappeared from the radar screens over the east of Ukraine's Donetsk Region on July 17, 2014. Its crash killed all 298 passengers and crew on board - citizens of ten countries. Although hostilities had been underway on the ground for quite some time by then Kiev failed to close the Donbass airspace to international passenger flights. Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine created a Joint Investigation Team. On May 24 last year it published an interim report to claim that the missile launcher which had fired the missile that downed the plane might have been brought from Russia's 53rd air defense missile brigade.

    Russia dismissed the JIT charges. The Defense Ministry said that not a single air defense system of the Russian armed forces had ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border.

    Related:
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    More from Vasily Prozorov at FRN:

    BREAKING: Ukrainian Security Boss Admits Ukraine Shot Down MH-17, Planned Ethnic Genocide in Donbass

    By Joaquin Flores On Mar 26, 2019


    MOSCOW – Top ranking SBU (Ukrainian Security Service) agent in charge of the ATO operation since 2014 Vasily Prozorov has just made some stunning statements to international media, and has recently escaped to Russia. Moreover, without exaggeration, this is a major blow to the foreign policy positions of Kiev. It is also a very weighty argument for those forces in Europe who want to quickly move the peace process in Ukraine from its present stalemate.

    In speaking to journalists, Prozorov’s presentation can be summarized with these points:
    – Kiev from the very beginning did not plan to resolve the conflict in the south-east of Ukraine by peaceful means

    – Kiev initially planned a large number of victims among the population of Donbass, then they wanted to declare them accomplices of terrorists

    – In the area of ​​the ATO there are Ukrainian secret prisons (as he called them concentration camps)

    – The neo nazi Azov unit also had its secret prisons. This is not Russian propaganda, people were actually killed there.

    – Specialists from the USA and the UK prepared a division of the SBU (Department No. 5) who went to train in the US and abroad to organize terrorist attacks and sabotage in Donbass

    – The Ukrainian side was involved in the Boeing crash of the MH17 flight
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Buk does not "hit" the target per se.
    It explodes near the target, sending off thousands of shrapnel, killing the pilot.
    If indeed Buk was deployed, you should see thousands of tiny holes in the aircraft as well as in the bodies found.
    But such holes ain't there.

    Only Ukrainian Sokhoi can have done it.

    The event coincided with the start of Israel's massacre in Gaza. Coincidence?
    Last edited by Didgevillage; 31st March 2019 at 01:00.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Malaysia demands actual evidence proving Russia shot down MH17

    Free Malaysia Today
    Sat, 01 Jun 2019 09:49 UTC



    Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad says the probe into the MH17 plane tragedy seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians and this is not a neutral kind of examination.

    The Malaysian government wants strong evidence to show that Russia is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 tragedy in 2014, said Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad today.

    He said Malaysia accepted the investigation report of Holland but only up to the point where the plane was brought down by a missile made by Russia.

    Mahathir said while the government agreed that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile, it cannot be certain that the missile was launched by Russia.
    "They are accusing Russia but where is the evidence? We know the missile that brought down the plane is a Russian-type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine.

    "You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians.

    "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile," he said during a dialogue and media conference with the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (FCCJ) here today.
    Mahathir said people of Russia are military people and they would know that MH17 is a passenger plane.
    "I don't think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile," he said.
    The prime minister said Malaysia should also be involved in examining the black box as the plane belongs to Malaysia and there were Malaysian passengers.
    "We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.

    "We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it.

    "The idea was not to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians. This is not a neutral kind of examination," said Mahathir.
    "Had a neutral party examined and made the conclusion, Malaysia is willing to accept the findings but here we have parties with political interests in the matter," he added.
    Flight MH17, which departed from Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam, on its way to Kuala Lumpur, was shot before crashing near Torez in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, about 40km from the Russian border on July 17, 2014.

    The incident killed 298 people, including 15 crew members.

    The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) said the team was convinced that a BUK Telar missile was used to down MH17, and that it originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade (53rd Brigade), which is a unit of the Russian army in Kursk in the Russian Federation.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    New MH17 doc reveals evidence tampering, Dutch cover-up of forged recordings, hidden Ukrainian radar records

    John Helmer Dances with Bears
    Sun, 21 Jul 2019 16:47 UTC



    A new documentary film by Max van der Werff, the leading independent investigator of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments. An attempt by agents of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to take possession of the black boxes of the downed aircraft is also revealed by a Malaysian National Security Council official for the first time.

    The sources of the breakthrough are Malaysian — Prime Minister of Malaysia Mohamad Mahathir; Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the officer in charge of the MH17 investigation for the Prime Minister's Department and Malaysia's National Security Council following the crash on July 17, 2014; and a forensic analysis by Malaysia's OG IT Forensic Services of Ukrainian Secret Service (SBU) telephone tapes which Dutch prosecutors have announced as genuine.

    The 298 casualties of MH17 included 192 Dutch; 44 Malaysians; 27 Australians; 15 Indonesians. The nationality counts vary because the airline manifest does not identify dual nationals of Australia, the UK, and the US.

    The new film throws the full weight of the Malaysian Government, one of the five members of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), against the published findings and the recent indictment of Russian suspects reported by the Dutch officials in charge of the JIT; in addition to Malaysia and The Netherlands, the members of the JIT are Australia, Ukraine and Belgium. Malaysia's exclusion from the JIT at the outset, and Belgium's inclusion (4 Belgian nationals were listed on the MH17 passenger manifest), have never been explained.

    The film reveals the Malaysian Government's evidence for judging the JIT's witness testimony, photographs, video clips, and telephone tapes to have been manipulated by the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), and to be inadmissible in a criminal prosecution in a Malaysian or other national or international court.

    For the first time also, the Malaysian Government reveals how it got in the way of attempts the US was organizing during the first week after the crash to launch a NATO military attack on eastern Ukraine. The cover story for that was to rescue the plane, passenger bodies, and evidence of what had caused the crash. In fact, the operation was aimed at defeating the separatist movements in the Donbass, and to move against Russian-held Crimea.

    The new film reveals that a secret Malaysian military operation took custody of the MH17 black boxes on July 22, preventing the US and Ukraine from seizing them. The Malaysian operation, revealed in the film by the Malaysian Army colonel who led it, eliminated the evidence for the camouflage story, reinforcing the German Government's opposition to the armed attack, and forcing the Dutch to call off the invasion on July 27.

    The 28-minute documentary by Max van der Werff and Yana Yerlashova has just been released. Watch it in full here.

    The full interview with Prime Minister Mahathir was released in advance; it can be viewed and read here.

    Mahathir reveals why the US, Dutch and Australian governments attempted to exclude Malaysia from membership of the JIT in the first months of the investigation. During that period, US, Dutch, Australian and NATO officials initiated a plan for 9,000 troops to enter eastern Ukraine, ostensibly to secure the crash scene, the aircraft and passenger remains, and in response to the alleged Russian role in the destruction of MH17 on July 17; for details of that scheme, read this.

    Although German opposition to military intervention forced its cancellation, the Australians sent a 200-man special forces unit to The Netherlands and then Kiev. The European Union and the US followed with economic sanctions against Russia on July 29.

    Malaysian resistance to the US attempts to blame Moscow for the aircraft shoot-down was made clear in the first hours after the incident to then-President Barack Obama by Malaysia's Prime Minister at the time, Najib Razak. That story can be followed here and here.

    In an unusual decision to speak in the new documentary, Najib's successor Prime Minister Mahathir announced: "They never allowed us to be involved from the very beginning. This is unfair and unusual. So we can see they are not really looking at the causes of the crash and who was responsible. But already they have decided it must be Russia. So we cannot accept that kind of attitude. We are interested in the rule of law, in justice for everyone irrespective of who is involved. We have to know who actually fired the missile, and only then can we accept the report as the complete truth."

    On July 18, in the first Malaysian Government press conference after the shoot-down, Najib announced agreements he had already reached by telephone with Obama and Petro Poroshenko, the Ukrainian President. " 'Obama and I agreed that the investigation will not be hidden and the international teams have to be given access to the crash scene.' [Najib] said the Ukrainian president ‎has pledged that there would be a full, thorough and independent investigation and Malaysian officials would be invited to take part. 'He also confirmed that his government will negotiate with rebels in the east of the country in order to establish a humanitarian corridor to the crash site,' said Najib. He also said that no one should remove any debris or the black box from the scene. The Government of Malaysia is dispatching a special flight to Kiev, carrying a Special Malaysia Disaster Assistance and Rescue Team, as well as a medical team. But we must - and we will - find out precisely what happened to this flight. No stone can be left unturned."

    The new film reveals in an interview with Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the head of the Malaysian team, what happened next. Sakri's evidence, filmed in his office at Putrajaya, is the first to be reported by the press outside Malaysia in five years. A year ago, Sakri gave a partial account of his mission to a Malaysian newspaper.


    "I talked to my prime minister [Najib]," Colonel Sakri says.

    "He directed me to go to the crash site immediately." At the time Sakri was a senior security official at the Disaster Management Division of the Prime Minister's Department. Sakri says that after arriving in Kiev, Poroshenko's officials blocked the Malaysians.

    "We were not allowed to go there...so I took a small team to leave Kiev going to Donetsk secretly." There Sakri toured the crash site, and met with officials of the Donetsk separatist administration headed by Alexander Borodai.
    With eleven men, including two medical specialists, a signalman, and Malaysian Army commandos, Sakri had raced to the site ahead of an armed convoy of Australian, Dutch and Ukrainian government men. The latter were blocked by Donetsk separatist units. The Australian state press agency ABC reported their military convoy, prodded from Kiev by the appearance of Australian and Dutch foreign ministers Julie Bishop and Frans Timmermans, had been forced to abandon their mission. That was after Colonel Sakri had taken custody of the MH17 black boxes in a handover ceremony filmed at Borodai's office in Donetsk on July 22.

    US sources told the Wall Street Journal at the time "the [Sakri] mission's success delivered a political victory for Mr. Najib's government... it also handed a gift to the rebels in the form of an accord, signed by the top Malaysian official present in Donetsk, calling the crash site 'the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic.'...That recognition could antagonize Kiev and Washington, which have striven not to give any credibility to the rebels, whose main leaders are Russian citizens with few ties to the area. State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf said in a briefing Monday that the negotiation 'in no way legitimizes' separatists."

    The Australian state radio then reported the Ukrainian government as claiming the black box evidence showed "the reason for the destruction and crash of the plane was massive explosive decompression arising from multiple shrapnel perforations from a rocket explosion." This was a fabrication - the evidence of the black boxes, the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder, first reported six weeks later in September by the Dutch Safety Board, showed nothing of the kind; read what their evidence revealed.

    Foreign Minister Bishop, in Kiev on July 24, claimed she was negotiating with the Ukrainians for the Australian team in the country to carry arms. "I don't envisage that we will ever resort to [arms]," she told her state news agency, "but it is a contingency planning, and you would be reckless not to include it in this kind of agreement. But I stress our mission is unarmed because it is [a] humanitarian mission."


    In Kiev on July 24, 2014, left to right: Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop; Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin. The NATO intervention plan was still under discussion, but the black boxes were already under Malaysian control.© Alamy

    By the time she spoke to her state radio, Bishop was concealing that the plan for armed intervention, including 3,000 Australian troops, had been called off. She was also concealing that the black boxes were already in Colonel Sakri's possession.

    The document signed by Sakri for the handover of the black boxes is visible in the new documentary. Sakri signed himself and added the stamp of the National Security Council of Malaysia.



    Col. Sakri says on film the Donetsk leaders expressed surprise at the delay of the Malaysians in arriving at the crash site to recover the black boxes. “Why are you so late”, [Borodai] said…I think [that was] very funny.”

    Sakri goes on to say he was asked by the OSCE's special monitoring mission for Ukraine to hand over the black boxes; he refused. He was then met by agents of the FBI (Min 6:56). "They approached me to show them the black box. I said no." He also reports that in Kiev the Ukrainian Government tried "forcing me to leave the black boxes with them. We said no. We cannot. We cannot allow."


    The handover ceremony in Donetsk, July 22, 2014: on far left, the two black boxes from MH17; in the centre, shaking hands, Alexander Borodai and Mohamad Sakri.

    Permission for Colonel Sakri to speak to the press has been authorized by his superiors at the prime ministry in Putrajaya, and his disclosures agreed with them in advance.

    Subsequent releases from the Kiev government to substantiate the allegation of Russian involvement in the shoot-down have included telephone tape recordings. These were presented last month by the JIT as their evidence for indictment of four Russians; for details, read this.

    Van der Werff and Yerlashova contracted with OG IT Forensic Services, a Malaysian firm specializing in forensic analysis of audio, video and digital materials for court proceedings, to examine the telephone tapes. The Kuala Lumpur firm has been endorsed by the Malaysian Bar. The full 143-page technical report can be read here.

    The findings reported by Akash Rosen and illustrated on camera are that the telephone recordings have been cut, edited and fabricated. The source of the tapes, according to the JIT press conference on June 19 by Dutch police officer Paulissen, head of the National Criminal Investigation Service of The Netherlands, was the Ukrainian SBU. Similar findings of tape fabrication and evidence tampering are reported on camera in the van der Werff film by a German analyst, Norman Ritter.


    Left: Dutch police chief Paulissen grins as he acknowledged during the June 19, 2019, press conference of JIT that the telephone tape evidence on which the charges against the four accused Russians came from the Ukrainian SBU. Minute 16:02 Right: Norman Ritter presented his analysis to interviewer Billy Sixt to show the telephone tape evidence has been forged in nine separate “manipulations”. One of the four accused by the JIT last month, Sergei Dubinsky, testifies from Min. 17 of the documentary. He says his men recovered the black boxes from the crash site and delivered them to Borodai at 2300 hours on July 17; the destruction of the aircraft occurred at 1320. Dubinsky testifies that he had no orders for and took no part in the shoot-down. As for the telephone tape-recording evidence against him, Dubinsky says the calls were made days before July 17, and edited by the SBU. “I dare them to publish the uncut conversations, and then you will get a real picture of what was discussed.” (Min. 17:59).

    Van der Werff and Yerlashova filmed at the crash site in eastern Ukraine. Several local witnesses were interviewed, including a man named Alexander from Torez town, and Valentina Kovalenko, a woman from the farming village of Red October. The man said the missile equipment alleged by the JIT to have been transported from across the Russian border on July 17 was in Torez at least one, possibly two days before the shoot-down on July 17; he did not confirm details the JIT has identified as a Buk system.

    Kovalenko, first portrayed in a BBC documentary three years ago (starting at Min.26:50) as a "unique" eye-witness to the missile launch, clarifies more precisely than the BBC reported where the missile she saw had been fired from.


    BBC documentary, “The Conspiracy Files. Who Shot Down MH17” -- Min. 27:00. The BBC broadcast its claims over three episodes in April-May 2016.

    This was not the location identified in press statements by JIT. Van der Werff explains: "we specifically asked [Kovalenko] to point exactly in the direction the missile came from. I then asked twice if maybe it was from the direction of the JIT launch site. She did not see a launch nor a plume from there. Notice the JIT 'launch site' is less than two kilometres from her house and garden. The BBC omitted this crucial part of her testimony."

    According to Kovalenko in the new documentary, at the firing location she has now identified precisely, "at that moment the Ukrainian Army were there."

    Kovalenko also remembers that on the days preceding the July 17 missile firing she witnessed, there had been Ukrainian military aircraft operating in the sky above her village. She says they used evasion techniques including flying in the shadow of civilian aircraft she also saw at the same time.


    On July 17, three other villagers told van der Werff they had seen a Ukrainian military jet in the vicinity and at the time of the MH17 crash.

    Concluding the documentary, van der Werff and Yerlashova present an earlier interview filmed in Donetsk by independent Dutch journalist Stefan Beck, whom JIT officials had tried to warn off visiting the area. Beck interviewed Yevgeny Volkov, who was an air controller for the Ukrainian Air Force in July 2014. Volkov was asked to comment on Ukrainian Government statements, endorsed by the Dutch Safety Board report into the crash and in subsequent reports by the JIT, that there were no radar records of the airspace at the time of the shoot-down because Ukrainian military radars were not operational.



    Volkov explained that on July 17 there were three radar units at Chuguev on "full alert" because "fighter jets were taking off from there;" Chuguev is 200 kilometres northwest of the crash site. He disputed that the repairs to one unit meant none of the three was operating. Ukrainian radar records of the location and time of the MH17 attack were made and kept, Volkov said. "There [they] have it. In Ukraine they have it."

    Last month, at the JIT press conference in The Netherlands on June 19, the Malaysian representative present, Mohammed Hanafiah Bin Al Zakaria, one of three Solicitors-General of the Malaysian Attorney General's ministry, refused to endorse for the Malaysian Governnment the JIT evidence or its charges against Russia.
    "Malaysia would like to reiterate our commitment to the JIT seeking justice for the victims," Zakaria said.

    "The objective of the JIT is to complete the investigations and gathering of evidence of all witnesses for the purpose of prosecuting the wrongdoers and Malaysia stands by the rule of law and the due process."

    [Question: do you support the conclusions?]

    "Part of the conclusions [inaudible] - do not change our positions."
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    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    This is a real bombshell report. Thanks Hervé.

    I wonder if it will get any coverage in the western press?

    The role of Malaysia is interesting.
    *I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night*

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    German Detective Can Offer Russia, Malaysia Findings of His Own MH17 Crash Probe

    Sputnik World
    11:31 07.08.2019


    © AFP 2019 / EMMANUEL DUNAND

    Earlier, the German detective said that he had tried to provide the Dutch prosecution and the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) with new materials about the MH17 downing, but had got a refusal because of asking to make the documents public.

    German detective Joseph Resch, who conducted a private investigation into the downing of the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight in Ukraine's Donbass region, told Sputnik that he could turn to Russia, Malaysia and other states and offer to disclose his information about the causes of the tragedy, the names of the people responsible for it, and US satellite data that he has.

    According to Resch, he will do so if an international investigation led by the Netherlands prosecutor’s office continued to ignore his requests to accept his findings.


    Names Unknown
    Earlier, he tried to provide the Netherlands, whose prosecutors run the Joint Investigative Team (JIT), with new findings on the MH17 tragedy which weren’t taken into account in the JIT’s June statements. However the Dutch side rejected the materials after he asked that they be made public.
    “Together with my lawyer, I will send one more letter to the JIT; this will be distributed internationally, and we are going to look at the reaction. I cannot make anyone from the JIT or from anywhere accept this evidence… But we can assume that [if the JIT turns down the findings] I will publish [the materials] together with Malaysia, Russia, and any other involved country which would like to take part in that,” Resch said.
    Speaking about the specific persons responsible for the downing, the German detective noted that “when the data is made public, everything will be presented… including names”. However, he refused to name them now.


    US Satellite Imagery
    The detective said that he’d like to involve other countries to examine his evidence, including the Netherlands, Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, Germany, Belgium and the United States.
    “I have satellite imagery, which the United States allegedly no longer has… This will also be made public,” Resch said, adding that

    “Of course, satellite images play a role” in the investigation. He emphasised the JIT’s inconsistent reaction to the issue, as earlier

    “it was constantly said that satellite imagery was needed, but at one point the images were no longer needed, because, apparently, it was already unimportant”.
    Ready to Witness at the ECHR
    According to the detective, the German federal government was aware of the fact that data on the MH17 case had been hidden, although it claims the opposite. He also said that the evidence he had collected has the name of the person responsible for that hiding.

    Resch said that he was ready to be a witness at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in lawsuits by relatives of victims of the MH17 crash over Donbass in July 2014, if such a legal action was initiated.

    Earlier, German lawyer Elmar Giemulla said that he was going to bring Resch into the MH17 proceedings at the ECHR if the court allowed that claim. Giemulla represents the relatives of four German citizens who died in the MH17 crash.


    A Joke
    Resch also said that in 2016 he was interrogated at the Federal Criminal Police Office in Cologne and at the Federal Court in Karlsruhe with the participation of Judge Renata Wimmer and representative of the Attorney General Christian Ritscher.
    “It was striking that the case was falling apart, and they [the German Prosecutor General’s Office representatives] told my lawyer:

    “Let Mr. Resch say it was a joke, they will send it to the Netherlands’ everyone will be happy, and everything will end,” the detective said.
    According to Resch, he was shocked by such a proposal, because
    “you cannot joke with the death of 298 people.”
    “And then I started to doubt whether they themselves believe in what they are doing,” Resch said.
    Resch’s Investigation
    Joseph Resch has been investigating the MH17 crash since 2014. The client, whom Resch doesn’t name due to the terms of the contract, first offered a reward of $30 million, and then another $17 million for data on the causes of the Boeing's downing. In mid-2015, an informant addressed the detective and provided him with some valuable information. For that data, he was rewarded with $15.5 million, paid in three different currencies – euros, US dollars and Swiss francs. According to Resch, he repeatedly received anonymous threats because of his investigation.


    Members of the Ukrainian Emergencies Ministry work at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, near the village of Hrabove, Donetsk region, July 20, 2014 © REUTERS / MAXIM ZMEYEV

    In addition, his apartment was searched, and his bank cell in Switzerland, where the document on the MH17 case was kept, was opened at the request of the Netherlands.


    MH17 Downing
    Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, carrying 298 people on board, was shot down on 17 July 2014 as it was flying over eastern Ukraine engulfed in a military conflict between the Ukrainian army and Donetsk People's Republic (DPR). As a result, all 298 passengers – mostly Dutch – and crew on board were killed in the crash.

    Following the tragedy, Kiev and the self-proclaimed republics in the region blamed each other for the downing, with the latter contending that they had no military equipment that would allow them to shoot down an aircraft at that altitude. The United States and a number of European nations, for their part, rushed to allege that Russia was responsible for the incident– a claim that was made even before an official investigation was launched.

    Shortly thereafter, the Netherlands set up a Joint Investigative Team (JIT) to probe the MH17 case, but left Russia out of the process despite the latter’s consistent offers to assist in the investigation.

    JIT’s probe concluded that the aircraft was downed by a Buk missile, ostensibly launched from a Russian anti-aircraft missile brigade stationed in the city of Kursk, not far from the Ukrainian border. At the same time, the Dutch-led team refused to share concrete evidence to corroborate the claims that Russia was responsible for the downing.

    In its turn, Moscow has repeatedly slammed JIT’s conclusions as “openly biased” and “one-sided” and emphasised that after being denied access to the formal probe, Russia had carried out its own investigation. The Russian side provided the Netherlands not only with the data from Russian radar, but also the papers indicating that the Buk missile that had downed the Boeing belonged to Ukraine; however, the investigators ignored the information.


    Dutch experts work at Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 crash site © Sputnik / Alexey Kudenko

    According to Russian Ministry of Defence, the missiles, whose engine was demonstrated by the Dutch commission for the investigation of the MH17 crash, had been disposed of after 2011.


    JIT’s June Conclusions
    In June, an international investigation into the MH17 crash announced the names of four suspects, three Russian citizens Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinsky and Oleg Pulatov, as well as Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko. The investigation considers them to have been involved in the delivery of the Buk air defense system to Donbass and in the downing the Boeing. According to the JIT representative, they will be charged with murder, and the investigation will issue international warrants for their arrest. The JIT also reported that the trial of the MH17 crash will be held in the Netherlands; it will start on 9 March 2020.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin condemned the report for failing to address "a lot of questions" that remained unanswered. The president also slammed the JIT for failing to consider the Russia's account of the events and the results of its own investigation into it, and simply "appointing perpetrators", instead of figuring out what in fact happened on the day of the crash.

    Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammad also expressed distrust in the international investigation’s conclusions, saying that the United States, the Netherlands and Australia weren’t really interested in establishing the causes of the crash and finding real culprits of the tragedy, but simply decided that Russia should be held responsible.


    MH17 Malaysian Airlines Boeing crash in Ukraine © Sputnik / Andrei Stenin

    The film by Dutch and Russian journalists Max van der Verff and Yana Erlashova, which contains an interview with the Malaysian Prime Minister, presents the views of German and Malaysian experts, who say that Ukraine’s Security Service has edited the records of talks presented as evidence for the MH17 case.


    Related:
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    The Saker interviews Max van der Werff about the MH-17 conspiracy

    The Saker
    August 28, 2019
    27 Comments

    Introduction: MH17 is to Novorussia, what the Markale (also see here) has been to Bosnia and Racak (also see here) has been to Kosovo: a typical false flag operation which pursued two goals:
    first, of course, to justify a military aggression and,

    second, to force everybody to chose one of two options:
    first, either pretend to believe the official narrative or,

    second, be vilified and discredited.
    From this perspective, the MH17 false flag has been a tremendous success, mostly due to the extremely successful lobotomy inflicted by the legacy Ziomedia on the western public opinion (I would argue that the Skripal fairy tale is even more self-evidently ridiculous than the MH17 fairy tale, and yet that was also swallowed hook line and sinker by most western “experts”).

    But then, we live in a post-9/11 world, in which neither facts nor logic matter much anymore, except for a rather small amount of people, including Max van der Werff who has proven to be one of the most tenacious and courageous investigative journalists. I am most grateful for his time and answers!

    The Saker

    ——-

    The Saker: First, a question about yourself: why and how did you get involved in this topic of MH17? What did were you doing before you got involved in this topic?

    Max van der Werff : The very moment the news of the shoot down of the Malaysian Boeing broke on July 17th 2014, I immediately realized this tragedy would have long term geopolitical implications. What further struck me was the fact most passengers were citizens of my country, The Netherlands.

    Since childhood I have an interest in geopolitics and history. The fact my father was an immigrant from Indonesia surely contributed and as a teenager I read a lot about Dutch colonial history.

    After Japan surrendered and World War II ended 150,000 Dutch troops were sent to restore Pax Hollandia in the old colony and the main motive was to restore the exploitation of the ‘wingewest’ (area for profit) as soon as possible. The Dutch elite had the opinion that the Japanese rule over the Dutch Indies was merely a short interruption and that Dutch colonial rule would be reinstated for generations to come. This fatally wrong perception of reality led to the Indonesian war of independence lasting from 1945 to end 1949 causing hundreds of thousands casualties.

    Prior to my MH17 investigations I spent a lot of time in archives and on the ground in Indonesia searching for evidence of Dutch war crimes. There’s a documentary about my work: https://vimeo.com/288088492

    The Saker: Now, let’s immediately jump into the core question: after having researched and analyzed the topic of MH17, what personal conclusion did you come to?
    What do you believe really happened that day?

    Max van der Werff : Having spent thousands of hours researching the case and being interviewed by the official Joint Investigation Team more than once my answer to your core question might be disappointing for some: I don’t know what happened.

    Let me elaborate. Depending on political preferences all kinds of ‘experts’ claim to know for sure what happened exactly. One camp is sure it was a false flag, executed by Ukraine. The opposing camp is sure Russia is responsible. There are many variants as to who is an accomplice. On social media you see claims Ukraine was just a proxy for the CIA or Mossad. On the other side Russia just supplied the weapon and rebels shot down the airliner.

    Then there are more exotic claims flight MH17 was shot down by a drone, a modernized Georgian SU-25 or by Israeli Python-5 missile(s) fired from the air or from the ground.

    I have not encountered any credible evidence supporting any of the theories. This specifically includes the official version. Too many things simply do not add up. I’ve written a lot about the questionable evidence the official investigators have presented to the public so far and was one of the producers of a documentary that already has more than 200,000 views on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkDWwYk4-Ho

    The Saker: I outlined my personal guesstimate here where I wrote that in my opinion the Ukronazis used the radar of a Buk battery to guide a Su-25 within 8 clicks of the MH-17 at which point the Su-25 fired a R-60 IR missile which hit one of the engines which caused the Boeing to go into a sharp turn and lose altitude – the Su-25 easily caught up and finished the Boeing with its 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 autocannon (I explain my reasons in details here: https://thesaker.is/mh-17-one-year-later/). Do you have any elements of proof which would undermine/negate my guesstimate? Specifically, do you consider it as admitted by all sides now that a Buk missile did strike MH-17?

    Max van der Werff : President Putin recently said:
    We have our own version, we presented it, unfortunately, no one wants to listen to us. And until there is a real dialogue, we will not find the right answer to those questions that are still open
    Link: https://sputniknews.com/world/201906...on-mh17-crash/
    For five years I am asking: What exactly is the Russian official version of events?
    To my knowledge the Russian Federation has never claimed the Malaysian Boeing was shot down by a buk missile. You have to be very precise here. Over the years Russian media have presented all kinds of versions about what happened. One version even more exotic than the other.

    As most of your readers will know Almaz Antey, the company producing the missile system, gave a press conference and conducted a life experiment detonating a buk missile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r63cskl08o

    During the press conference the Almaz Antey spokesman explained that the observed damage patterns in the hull of the Boeing could not have been caused by a buk missile fired from the location near Snizhne as claimed by the MH17 Joint Investigation Team. If a buk missile caused the damage, it must have been fired from an area southeast of the village Zaroshenskoye. Notice the little word “IF” in the sentence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsohFzbJ-vs

    Concerning your assessment a Su-25 fired a R-60 IR missile. You do get some support for your theory from Zahar Omarov, chief researcher at the Central Research Institute of the Air Force of the Russian Ministry of Defense:
    I can say that our results disprove the conclusion that the plane was shot down by a missile from a Buk-type anti-aircraft missile system. Most likely, it was an air-to-air missile with a mass of high-explosive fragmentation warheads not exceeding 33 kg (the mass of the warhead of the Buk missile is 70 kg).
    Link https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2720372
    Omarov repeatedly attended meetings of Russian delegations with members of the Dutch Safety Board. Here’s a very interesting segment of what he experienced during one of those meetings:

    –QUOTE–
    During the first meeting, in which I had to take part, and this was in February 2015, the Dutch reported that the plane, in their opinion, was shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft missile. Moreover, a definite modification of this missile was indicated, and, moreover, even the area from where it was launched was indicated.

    I will not hide, we were very surprised. After all, before this, fragments of the aircraft with holes were examined, and there was not a single fragment with cut out sections that would indicate the conduct of any laboratory research.

    I want to draw attention to such a dialogue that I had with a speaking expert.

    –I asked a question: “Excuse me, did you investigate combat damage on fragments of an airplane?”

    –Answer: “No. We are only planning to do this.”

    –Question: “But how did you establish that the plane was shot down by Buk missile launcher?”

    –Answer: “We found out from the Internet that the aircraft could have been hit either by a GSh-23 type air gun, or a R-60 type air missile, or a Buk anti-aircraft missile. One of the steel pieces found in the wreckage of the aircraft, in our opinion, is somewhat reminiscent of the shape of a “butterfly”. And we know that the warhead of one of the modifications of the Buk missile has damaging elements in the form of a “butterfly”. Therefore, of the three versions, the last was chosen.”

    Logic, as they say, is iron. Something reminds me of our school exam. Dutch experts, apparently, have a good university education. However, for such work, education alone is not enough. Of course, experience is necessary, but even this is not the main thing. It is necessary to know, or, in extreme cases, at least conceptually understand the methodology for investigating such aviation events.
    –UNQUOTE–

    Now back to the type of air-to-air missile allegedly used. Omarov claims:
    The warhead was equipped with compact striking elements in an amount of not more than 4000 pieces. The missile most likely had a matrix-type thermal imaging homing head or passive radar. I note that missiles with similar characteristics are not in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces and never have been.”
    Source http://www.aviapanorama.ru/2016/02/r...skoj-komissii/
    The Saker: Russia and Malaysia were denied the right to participate to the investigation. Can you outline what the legalities are to decide which countries do or do not get the chance to participate? Do Russia and Malaysia not have any legal instruments to invoke to challenge the absolutely ridiculous way the official inquiry was formed and, even more so, the way this commission of inquiry operated (such as using social media sites, but not official Russian data)? Russia is an IATA member, so is Malaysia. Can they not sue?

    Max van der Werff : This is a question for legal experts, but I’m quite certain Malaysia would have a strong case. ICAO Annex 13 describes in detail how the composition of an air disaster investigation must be. For sure the country of the operator (in this case Malaysia Airlines) has to be part of the investigation from the very beginning, which we all know was not the case. Malaysia only was allowed to become MH17 JIT member four months after the shoot down.

    Russia could argue that Ukraine as a potential suspect of the crime is a member of the official investigation and to compensate this obvious anomaly the Russian Federation should be part of the investigative team too.

    Connected to this issue Lawyer and expert international criminal law Geert-Jan Knoops argues:
    In my view, the OM made a wrong choice by first setting up a trial model with the JIT team, with the Netherlands and The Hague District Court as the place of trial, then presenting the report with the suspects and then expecting Russia to cooperates.
    and
    I think Russia might have been more cooperative if there had been trial in a neutral country, a non-JIT country.“
    Source https://nos.nl/artikel/2289762-knoop...npak-mh17.html
    The Saker: What is going on in Russia? First, they strongly hinted that some Ukie aircraft had shot MH17, then they declared that it was a Buk owned by the Ukronazis. So did they actually change their working hypothesis and ditched the Su-25 hypothesis to the (much less credible, at least in my opinion) Buk missile scenario?

    Max van der Werff : Information management of the Russian Federation is of very low quality, to put it mildly. It took Russia four days to present its version of events and claimed a (most probably) Su-25 appeared on radar as it broke the 5,000 meter altitude. Russia also claimed it had deleted its radar data only to find a copy a few days before the official JIT press conference. And on those radar data a Russian expert explained there was no fighter jet visible. How credible is all this and how could it fail to explain why on one set of radar data a fighter jet is visible and on the other there is not?

    Another criticism is Russia reacts when new accusations are disseminated by the official investigators, but fails to take the initiative and to communicate its own version of events in a simple, complete and credible narrative. More about this in two radio interviews with patrick Henningsen of 21st Century Wire en Chris Cook of Gorilla Radio.

    https://21stcenturywire.com/2019/07/...umentary-film/
    http://www.gorilla-radio.com/2019/07...uly-25th-2019/

    The Saker: If the quasi official hypothesis now is that a Buk was shot (by somebody, nevermind for the time being how did it)? In spite of the fact that a HUGE plume should have been seen and in spite of the fact that any such Buk launch was absolutely certain to be tracked and recorded by all sides? Does it not strike you that the Buk hypothesis is just not credible at all? To ask the question a little differently: do you think that challenging the Buk hypothesis is still a viable strategy or should I (and a few others) give up on our Su-25 hypothesis and accept the Buk theory as established beyond reasonable doubt (or even by a preponderance of evidence)?

    Max van der Werff: The narrative of a buk missile fired from rebel held territory was the first narrative that circulated in western media and after five years it is unchanged and still the dominant narrative. It is now also the official version of the MH17 Joint Investigation Team.

    To your question if challenging the Buk hypothesis is still a viable strategy the answer depends very much on who is questioning this hypothesis. For sure the Russian Federation knows a lot more than what it is sharing with the public.

    The tragedy happened merely thirty kilometers from the Russian border. For me it is unthinkable Russia does not know exactly what happened on July 17th 2014. What facts and information does it hide after even five years and for what reasons? If a buk missile was not the murder weapon, why not explain this to the world with irrefutable evidence?

    The Saker: Finally, do you believe that the full truth about MH17 will eventually come out and, if yes, roughly how and when?

    Max van der Werff : For sure at some point in time the truth will come out. However, I am not sure we will be living long enough to witness this event.

    The Saker: thank you so much for your time and replies!

    ——-

    Afterword by The Saker:
    During my years as a strategic intel analyst I had the chance to personally witness how the airspace over Europe is controlled in peacetime: not a single aircraft can take off without immediately being detected by numerous and redundant reconnaissance capabilities of many different actors including NATO, but also the various member states and even some neutral countries. I can only begin to image the degree, the concentration, of intelligence/reconnaissance means deployed by ALL SIDES of the conflict in the Donbass. There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that both the Russians and the Empire have very detailed radar tracks, signal logs and God knows what else which gives them a 20/20 vision of everything which took place on that day (and before and after too, of course). This brings me to three different questions:
    • Why are the Russians not releasing to the world the full and irrefutable evidence of what took place that day? I could understand why the Russians remained silent about 9/11, but in this case I really don’t get it!
    • How are the various NATO states justifying that they are not simply showing the general public the full picture of what took place that day? Has nobody asked them point blank?
    • How is it that journalists with a lot of contacts (say a Seymour Hersh or a Robert Fisk) not get at least ONE (even anonymous) source to give them the full picture? There must be HUNDREDS of people between all the US and EU intel agencies who know exactly what has taken place and most of those probably do not sympathize with the Ukronazi regime in Kiev). Why this deafening silence?
    I think that MH-17 will go the way of the Kennedy assassination or the way of 9/11: everybody will know that the official version is a load of bull, everybody will have his/her version of what really might have taken place, and we will probably never know for sure.

    Unless one of the hundreds of people who actually do know the truth steps forward.

    The Saker
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Tremendous turn of phrase in my view:

    Quote successful lobotomy inflicted by the legacy Ziomedia on the western public opinion
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Eric Zuesse: Update on the MH17 Case

    Eric Zuesse Sott.net
    Mon, 07 Oct 2019 17:12 UTC


    A photo taken on July 23, 2014 shows the crash site of the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, in a field near the village of Grabove, in the Donetsk region. © Agence France-Presse / Bulent Kilic

    The Netherlands Government is resisting an effort by Dutch victims' families to find out why Ukraine's Government, on 17 July 2014 — when the Malaysian airliner MH17 was shot down while flying over Ukraine's civil-war zone — this passenger-plane had been guided by Ukraine's air-traffic control to fly through, instead of around (as it instructed other airliners), the war-zone. On 1 October 2019, now more than five years after 196 Dutch nationals had died from that incident, Holland's RTL News headlined (as autotranslated into English) "Cabinet considers research into Ukraine's role in disaster MH17", and reported that "The cabinet will examine whether further research is possible on the role of Ukraine in the disaster with flight MH17," because "A proposal ... for the investigation received the support of all Parties present in the second chamber" of Holland's parliament. This news-report said that, "So far, the cabinet has not taken any steps against Ukraine. As far as we know, nothing is happening behind the scenes."

    Furthermore: "Last year, the Netherlands, together with Australia, decided to make Russia as a country liable. For the liability of Ukraine, according to the cabinet, there was 'no evidence' and also 'no research needed'." Moreover, Dutch Foreign Minister Stefan Blok said that "We don't see any reason for an investigation" into that, because "The government is trying to maintain its relationship with Ukraine," and "because then both the airspace of Ukraine and that of Russia should be looked at," and because "there are still no indications that Ukraine can also be held liable."

    But actually, from the very start of that investigation, there has been a secret agreement not to blame Ukraine for anything having to do with the incident. This agreement is kept secret from the Dutch people. Blok, in resisting to investigate why the MH17 was guided over the civil-war zone, was simply adhering to the secret agreement that Netherlands had signed with Ukraine on 8 August 2014. If he were to agree to the families' demand, he still would be obligated, by Holland's 8 August 2014 agreement with Ukraine, to find Ukraine not to have perpetrated the downing. But the families don't know this.


    Members of a joint investigation team present the preliminary results of the criminal investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 , in Nieuwegein, on September 28, 2016 © Emmanuel Dunand / AFP

    As I reported back on 24 August 2014, a secret agreement had been signed on August 8th between Netherlands, Ukraine, Belgium, and Australia, that Ukraine would have veto-power over any finding that their official "Joint Investigation Team" ("JIT") would issue regarding the shoot-down of the MH17. Malaysia was excluded from the Team, but was finally admitted, after agreeing to their secret terms — including not to blame Ukraine. Russia's RT headlined on 20 November 2014 "Dutch government refuses to reveal 'secret deal' into MH17 crash probe" and revealed that the Dutch Government was refusing to comply with its own Freedom of Information law by keeping this agreement secret. On 14 June 2016, the website "What Happened to Flight MH17" headlined "The vague role of Malaysia in the Joint Investigation Team" and reported that the JIT had actually been officially formed on 7 August 2014, and noted that, "In the limited number of public communications by JIT it is not mentioned what the role of Malaysia is in the criminal investigation." (Malaysia, unlike those other four nations, isn't a member of America's core anti-Russia alliance, which includes NATO and Australia, but is instead a neutral nation and therefore considered untrustworthy by the others.) Subsequently, on 21 July 2019, John Helmer and Max van der Werff revealed that Malaysia's Government rejects the 'findings' by the JIT (which, with no reservations, blame Russia for downing the MH17), but that Malaysia isn't violating the 8 August 2014 secret agreement, since Malaysia isn't saying Ukraine did it. Instead, Malaysia is saying that further investigations are needed, and that Malaysia possesses the black boxes and other crucial evidence.


    Malaysia takes custody of MH17's black boxes © AP

    The present report is an update regarding the entire matter of the shoot-down on 17 July 2014 of the MH17 Malaysian airliner over the breakaway Donetsk region of Ukraine. The additional facts which will be reported here regarding the MH17 incident shock me. I knew that U.S. President Barack Obama had become desperate for something to happen that would persuade German Chancellor Angela Merkel to endorse added sanctions against Russia regarding Ukraine, but I had had no idea, until now, as to what direct involvement, if any, he had had in the actual setting-up of the MH17 shoot-down. All of the source-evidence for the following can be clicked-through-to here by the reader, and this is important to do, for any reader who is skeptical (as all ought to be) and who wants to see source-evidence, for any assertion that seems outlandish.

    It's important especially because the case which will be presented here stuns even me, who had voted three times for Obama, first in his 2008 primary against Hillary Clinton, then once again in his 2008 general election contest against Republican John McCain; and then, finally, once more, yet again, in his 2012 general election contest against Republican Mitt Romney (who, incidentally, right now, is arguing for Trump's impeachment and replacement by Mike Pence; and who is famous for having said, in his 2012 campaign against Obama, that "Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe"). I knew that Obama was the lesser of two evils, but I now recognize that I had had no idea of how evil that actually was. Here I shall report what I now know. This extensively documented reconstruction, of the MH17 incident and of how it came about, seems to me to disprove the fundamental Western 'historical' narrative about contemporary international relations, and to signal the necessity for a fundamental rewrite of the mainstream view of world history in our era. At the very least, it disproves that view — the mainstream view or 'history' of our time. Whatever the truth might be, it certainly cannot be anything even approximating that 'historical' mainstream. Mainstream recent 'history' is, now more clearly than ever before, a sinister and carefully orchestrated myth, as will be demonstrated here in what follows.

    The essential background information regarding the MH17 must be presented at the start, and it's accurately portrayed in an 11-minute video. The first-ever news-report to display and assemble in an easily comprehensible way all of the crucial facts constituting the background context that's necessary in order to understand the MH17 event and what caused it, was an 11-minute video compilation, which was uploaded to youtube on 12 March 2014, and which you can see here. It's 100% true, nothing at all deceptive in any way, and it still remains, in my opinion (after my seeing it around 50 times and considering it from a multitude of different perspectives), absolutely a masterpiece, the only perfect public-affairs video that I have ever seen. Beyond that essential background information to the MH17 event, now follows (and entirely within that factual background-context), a summary in more detail, focusing in, or zooming onto, the MH17 event itself, more closely:

    This will be a summary, which — since it might seem incredible to anyone who doesn't already know the evidence — will immediately be followed by the evidence, all clickable here to each source (though not necessarily via only a single click). The first sentence of the summary will summarize the essential background information to the MH17 event — meaning here only information on the background that's essential in order to be able to understand the context in which the information that is to be newly introduced here regarding the MH17 event will fit into that bigger picture — and this opening sentence will therefore itself be linked to more-detailed summaries of key aspects of that background part, each aspect of which itself contains links to all of the source-evidences there regarding that aspect of the deepest background, so that the full background will be accessible from the links that are provided here, and the new information, which is to be provided at the end, will be entirely understandable within the context of that full background.

    Here, then, is the overall summary, including the heavily-linked opening sentence regarding this event's deep background:

    President Obama not only perpetrated the February 2014 bloody coup in Ukraine which he had started by no later than 2011 to plan and placed into operation on 1 March 2013 inside the U.S. Embassy in Kiev (months before the democratically elected Ukrainian President whom he was to overthrow decided for Ukraine not to accept the EU's offer of membership), but Obama and his NATO were so determined to reverse the coup's resulting breakaway, from Ukraine, of Ukraine's two most anti-nazi districts, Crimea and Donetsk, that Obama and his NATO then set up the shoot-down of the MH17 airliner by Obama's newly-installed nazi Ukrainian government, with the objective being to promptly blame it against Russia. Obama was, at that time, in early July 2014, desperate for there to be a pretext on which the European Union would join the U.S. in greatly hiking sanctions against Russia regarding Ukraine.

    What the most-recent information will show is this: Obama and his NATO were intending to use this false accusation against Russia as a pretext not only to hike anti-Russia sanctions but ultimately to invade both Donetsk and Crimea and risk WW III in order to coerce those two regions back again into Ukraine — now to become (like the rest of Ukraine) under the control of the U.S. regime. The reasons why that plan failed (was aborted) were, first, that Malaysia's Government held in international law the unchallengeable right of ownership over the airliner's black boxes; and, second, that there was especially one member of NATO, Angela Merkel, who refused to risk WW III and to join into Obama's extremely psychopathic scheme, since it risked the whole world over his determination to grab the entirety of Ukraine. Obama always refused to proceed forward with a geostrategic plan if it was strongly opposed by at least one core ally — in this particular instance, he knew enough not to drive Germany to abandon NATO and to ally with Russia (especially since Russia itself was his actual target in his coup to take over Ukraine). By declining to move forward without Merkel, all of those immediate risks to the world were avoided. Furthermore, Malaysia's holding the black boxes was especially a problem for Obama and NATO, because any preparation for a U.S.-NATO invasion of Donbass and Crimea would spark Malaysia to go public with what it already knew about the U.S.-NATO lies regarding the MH17 incident. Obama possessed no ability to prevent that response from Malaysia. Not only Germany, but also Malaysia, possessed power in this situation, and Obama, fortunately, yielded to it. (Of course, the great worry about Trump is that if he gets into a similar situation, he might move forward regardless.)

    Also noteworthy — especially for Dutch citizens and the families of the passengers on that airliner — the Netherlands Government had been one of the largest financial backers of the February 2014 U.S.-planned overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected President. For example, it was the largest single donor, listed at $793,089, to Hromadske TV, which was the leading station that advocated for forcing that President out of power. Whereas the U.S. Government had organized and ran the overthrow, and spent far more on it (over $5 billion) than did any other nation or individual, the U.S. was only the second-largest donor to that station, at $399,650. So: Holland's government had a significant investment in the post-coup regime, even before that post-coup regime shot down the MH17 plane and thereby slaughtered its 283 passengers, of whom 196 were Dutch. This is yet another reason why the Dutch Government's heading this investigation in which Ukraine — another member — should be a suspect but is instead a juror, nullifies any rational authority to its 'findings'.


    US/Dutch/Soros-sponsored Hromadske TV cashflow © Unknown

    One of my more important early news-reports regarding the MH17 case was the 24 August 2014 "MH-17 'Investigation': Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out", which article, referenced near the opening of the present article, documented that the secret agreement amongst the 4-party official MH17 'investigative' team — Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, and Ukraine — gave each one of those governments an absolute veto over any public announcement or 'finding' from the 'investigation', so that if Ukraine, which was a prime suspect in the incident, were to disapprove a 'finding', then the team wouldn't be allowed to issue it. This is like giving a murder-suspect veto-power over the investigation into the murder. It shows how poisoned that whole official 'investigation' was, even at its very start. This is important to understand.

    Another especially relevant news-report from me was the 7 June 2015 "Obama Sidelines Kerry on Ukraine Policy", which noted that Obama supported the position of Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, who favored the U.S. backing an all-out invasion of Crimea and Donbass by Ukraine, and that Obama rejected the position of her boss, John Kerry, the Secretary of State, who opposed that policy. "Kerry, for his part, now faces the decision as to whether to quit ... or else for Kerry to stay in office and be disrespected in all capitals for his staying on after having been so blatantly contradicted by his subordinate." (This wasn't the only instance when Obama trashed Kerry's work: he likewise did it when Kerry favored the U.S. agreeing with Russia that, in a Syrian-war cease-fire, not only ISIS but also Al Qaeda-led forces in Syria could continue to be bombed. Russia was bombing both, but Obama refused to accept a ceasefire in which Russia would be allowed to continue its bombing of Al Qaeda, not only of ISIS. It was the ultimate humiliation of Kerry, and effectively ended his career in government.) This displays Obama's profound hatred of Russia.


    U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, flanked by Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria “Toria” Nuland, addresses Russian President Vladimir Putin in a meeting room at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia, at the outset of a bilateral meeting on July 14, 2016. © U.S. State Department

    My last major report on MH17 was on 31 December 2018, "MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine's Guilt Now Proven". That presents conclusive checkmate against the U.S.-NATO case blaming Russia for MH17 (that case being run by the Netherlands Government, which simply ignores its case having become disproven by that evidence).

    Here's the more-recent report, what I did not previously know, which comes from the great independent Western journalist living in Moscow, John Helmer; and presented here are the highlights from his report — a report that fills-in crucial additional details of the same historical narrative that I have previously documented regarding the MH17 incident:
    "MH17 Evidence Tampering Revealed by Malaysia - FBI Attempt to Seize Black Boxes; Dutch Cover-Up of Forged Telephone Tapes; Ukrainian Air Force Hid Radar Records; Crash Site Witness Testimony Misreported"

    John Helmer, 21 July 2019

    A new documentary from Max van der Werff, the leading independent investigator of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments. An attempt by agents of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to take possession of the black boxes of the downed aircraft is also revealed by a Malaysian National Security Council official for the first time.

    The sources of the breakthrough are Malaysian — Prime Minister of Malaysia Mohamad Mahathir; Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the officer in charge of the MH17 investigation for the Prime Minister's Department and Malaysia's National Security Council following the crash on July 17, 2014; and a forensic analysis by Malaysia's OG IT Forensic Services of Ukrainian Secret Service (SBU) telephone tapes which Dutch prosecutors have announced as genuine. ...

    The film reveals the Malaysian Government's evidence for judging the [Joint Investigative Team] JIT's witness testimony, photographs, video clips, and telephone tapes to have been manipulated by the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), and to be inadmissible in a criminal prosecution in a Malaysian or other national or international court.

    For the first time also, the Malaysian Government reveals how it got in the way of attempts the US was organizing during the first week after the crash to launch a NATO military attack on eastern Ukraine. The cover story for that was to rescue the plane, passenger bodies, and evidence of what had caused the crash. In fact, the operation was aimed at defeating the separatist movements in the Donbass, and to move against Russian-held Crimea.

    The new film reveals that a secret Malaysian military operation took custody of the MH17 black boxes on July 22, preventing the US and Ukraine from seizing them. The Malaysian operation, revealed in the film by the Malaysian Army colonel who led it, eliminated the evidence for the camouflage story, reinforcing the German Government's opposition to the armed attack, and forcing the Dutch to call off the invasion on July 27. ...

    Malaysia's Colonel Mohamad Sakri led a secret mission to recover the MH17 black boxes before they could stolen and tampered with. © Bonanza Media /YouTube

    Although German opposition to military intervention forced its cancellation, the Australians sent a 200-man special forces unit to The Netherlands and then Kiev. ...

    The new film reveals in an interview with Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the head of the Malaysian team, what happened next. Sakri's evidence, filmed in his office at Putrajaya, is the first to be reported by the press outside Malaysia in five years. A year ago, Sakri gave a partial account of his mission to the Malaysian newspaper New Straits Times.

    "I talked to my prime minister [Najib]," Colonel Sakri says. "He directed me to go to the crash site immediately." At the time Sakri was a senior security official at the Disaster Management Division of the Prime Minister's Department. Sakri says that after arriving in Kiev, Poroshenko's officials blocked the Malaysians. "We were not allowed to go there...so I took a small team to leave Kiev going to Donetsk secretly." ...

    Sakri goes on to say he was asked by the [nominally nonpartisan] OSCE's special monitoring mission for Ukraine to hand over the black boxes; he refused. He was then met by agents of the FBI (Min 6:56). "They approached me to show them the black box. I said no." He also reports that in Kiev the Ukrainian Government tried "forcing me to leave the black boxes with them. We said no. We cannot. We cannot allow."


    The handover ceremony in Donetsk, July 22, 2014: on far left, the two black boxes from MH17; in the centre, shaking hands, Alexander Borodai and Mohamad Sakri. © Bonanza Media/Youtube

    Van der Werff and Yerlashova contracted with OG IT Forensic Services, a Malaysian firm specializing in forensic analysis of audio, video and digital materials for court proceedings, to examine the telephone tapes. The Kuala Lumpur firm has been endorsed by the Malaysian Bar. The full 143-page technical report can be read here.

    The findings reported by Akash Rosen and illustrated on camera are that the telephone recordings have been cut, edited and fabricated. The source of the tapes, according to the JIT press conference on June 19 by Dutch police officer Paulissen, head of the National Criminal Investigation Service of The Netherlands, was the Ukrainian SBU. Similar findings of tape fabrication and evidence tampering are reported on camera in the van der Werff film by a German analyst, Norman Ritter. ...
    CLOSING NOTE: The present article was offered as an exclusive to virtually all mainstream news-media in the U.S. and its major allied countries, none of which responded. It therefore is not copyrighted, and is instead available to all news-media, free of charge, for publication. Readers are therefore encouraged to distribute it to others without any limitation.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Ukranian Whistleblower Reveals MH-17 Tragedy Was Orchestrated By Poroshenko And British Secret Service

    Quote
    "It is highly recommended that the documentary is viewed as all the information, in which all of it is relevant, cannot be confined into a single article. The insights and information provided by Prozorov thoroughly examines and concludes that MH-17 flight downing was an aggressive action taken by Ukraine with the backing of foreign intelligence agencies, particularly British, to discredit the Donbass militias.

    I would argue this was also done to legitimize a Western intervention in Ukraine. Just as Bellingcat’s disinformation campaign against Syria has failed, Higgins and other peoples campaign to blame the Donbass volunteers for MH-17 tragedy is also crumbling apart."

    Link: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...ko-and-british

    Related video.

    MH-17: In Search of Truth

    UKR LEAKS
    In July, 2014 Boeing-777 was shot down over the Donbass region. The Joint Investigation Team claimed that Russia and the militia of the Donetsk People's Republic were involved. But is their evidence solid enough?
    The investigation MH-17: in Search of Truth reveals new and earlier unknown details and focuses on inconsistencies in the official investigation. The film is based on original documents from the Ukrainian special services and exclusive interview of the eyewitnesses.
    The collected evidence makes it clear that it was a well-prepared provocation conducted by the special services of several states.
    In hoc signo vinces / In this sign thou shalt conquer

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Some Emerging Truths About Ukraine and the Crash of MH17

    02.03.2020
    Author: James ONeill
    journal-neo.org



    On 17 July 2014 a Malaysian Airlines flight was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down over Ukrainian territory with the loss of all passengers and crew. The majority of the passengers were Dutch citizens, although there were significant other nationals represented, including in particular Australian citizens and residents.

    The Ukrainian territory over which the tragedy occurred was the centre of fighting between its largely Russian speaking inhabitants and Kiev government forces, acting on the instructions of the Kiev government that had earlier that year seized power in an American financed coup.

    An international group of countries set up an investigation into the crash. An early indicator that the investigation was likely to be less than objective came from its membership: the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium and Ukraine. As the countries suffering the largest casualties, the presence of The Netherlands and Australia was understandable.

    There was no obvious reason for including Belgium, although that countries position as NATO headquarters provides at least one clue. Why Ukraine was included was also a puzzle. On the then known facts, or at least what was thought to be the facts, Ukraine was at the very least a prime suspect in the shooting down.

    The exclusion of Malaysia, the plane’s owner and operator, who also lost citizens, was at the time inexplicable. The reasons only became known much later. Malaysia refused to be a party to an extraordinary agreement between the other four nations that gave an effective veto to the Ukrainians against any adverse findings.

    Contrary to basic principles of investigation, the quartet of countries immediately blamed Russia, alleging that a Russian missile has been fired at the plane, causing its destruction and the death of all on board. Not then and never since has any remotely plausible argument been advanced as to what possible motive Russia could have for shooting down the civilian airliner of a friendly country.

    In the now more thanfive- and one-half years since the tragedy, the original blame game has not ceased. A new report has recently been released however, that has shed considerable light on what really happened.

    This report follows earlier revelations from the Malaysians that they had sent a team to the Ukraine to recover the plane’s black boxes, managing to do so with the assistance of local rebels fighting the Ukrainian government forces.

    Had the Malaysians not been successful, establishing the truth of what happened would have been much more difficult. Thanks also to the efforts of an independent Dutch group, a great deal more information has become available, none of which casts the original quartet of countries in a favourable light.

    The conduct of the inquiry, the evidence that was established and then suppressed by the original investigators, the allegations repeated without question in the western media, and the manifestly false allegations have now been revealed in a major study by an independent Dutch group led by the investigative journalist Max van der Werff. Their results can be read on the website.

    That this report, with its devastating revelations, has not been reported in the western mainstream media confirms that rather than being an inquiry into the truth about a tragedy, the investigation always had as a primary objective, to blame Russia.

    It will be recalled that the allegations against Russia hinge on the alleged presence of a Russian missile system in the crash location on the relevant date. This allegation was actively promoted by the notorious mouthpiece of the United Kingdom security services who publishes under the nom de plume Bellingcat.

    Bellingcat was a major promoter of the version of events that a Russian missile crew had crossed the border from Russia into Ukraine, and then fired its missile with the devastating consequences of destroying the aircraft and killing all its passengers and crew, and then returning across the border back into Russia.

    Bellingcat published some photographs of the Russian missile system, and the western mainstream media duly reported the allegations that the photographs were of the offending missile system, without the least bit of fact checking, either with local citizens who would have witnessed the alleged movements of such a conspicuous weapon system, or any verifiable military records.

    It is now known that local eye witnesses were interviewed by the Dutch investigators.

    Those eye witnesses referred to seeing Ukrainian fighter jets operating in the sky at the relevant time. This directly contradicted the Ukrainian government claim that none of their fighter jets were operational on that day. Such an obvious and easily disproven lie raises questions about what else the Ukrainians may be lying about.

    As might be expected, the Dutch Military Intelligence Service carried out its investigation into the circumstances surrounding the crash. Their investigation produced a report that has been leaked to the van der Werff investigation team.

    That data shows quite clearly that at the material time the flight path of MH 17 was outside the operational range of both Ukrainian and Russian missile systems.

    The report of the Dutch military investigation team (MIVD) quoted by van der Werff confirms that there were no Russian BUK missiles or radar systems in Ukraine on or about 17 July 2014.

    The Dutch report further confirmed that no BUK missiles were detected as having been fired on that day. Nor had anything been fired from the Russian side of the border.

    This information was consistent with data obtained by two Australian investigators, Shaun Ellis and Timothy Johns, conducting an inquiry under the code name “Operation Arkanella”. None of these findings, which clearly contradict the allegations of Russian responsibility, have ever been published in the western mainstream media.

    It raises the obvious question of why the lie of Russian complicity in the tragedy has been raised and maintained ever since, when it is clearly contradicted by the evidence the Dutch-Australian investigations discovered.

    The known Russian missile systems were in proximity to substantial population centres. There were no reports in any format of any missiles being fired on the relevant day.

    This conclusion is clearly reported in the official report of the Dutch Military Intelligence and Security Service. Their report clearly states: “it becomes apparent that flight MH 17 was flying beyond the range of all identified and operational Ukrainian and Russian locations where 9K37m1Buk M1 Systems were deployed.”

    Again, it raises the obvious question: how is this information reconciled with the propaganda attack on Russia, then and ever since?

    This report was published on 21 September 2016, i.e. more than three years ago. Not a word of it has been published by the western media who persist in their “blame Russia” version despite having no verifiable evidence let alone motive, to sustain such an allegation.

    If we are able to exclude a missile as the cause of MH 17’s demise, that inevitably leaves only either an accident (which may be emphatically excluded) or intervention by fighter aircraft. Even the Ukrainians and their Western allies have never alleged that a Russian fighter jet was involved.

    Rather, the Ukrainian government has always maintained that none of its military aircraft were flying at the time. This claim has long been disputed by civilians living in the area who have given repeated accounts of the activity of Ukrainian fighter jets in the area at the relevant time.

    The area where the shooting down of MH17 occurred was an active war zone. It is known that both United States and Russian satellites were in stationary orbit over the region at the relevant time.

    It raises the obvious question as to why these data have not been released. One can understand the US reluctance as the data would disclose the complicity of their ally Ukraine in the tragedy. It is less clear why the Russian authorities have not released their data. The evidence after all is in their favour.

    What the satellite data would show is exactly what was established by the Dutch and Australian investigators at the time. That is, MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian fighter jets.

    Van der Werff’s report includes the transcript of an interview with one such keywitness,a Brigadier of the Dutch Police. That witness gave detailed evidence as to the activities of Ukrainian fighter jets in the area at the relevant time on the day of the tragedy. Again, this clearly refutes the Ukrainian claims.

    When one adds together the known facts revealed in the Dutch documents as well as other sources, certain irresistible inferences can be drawn. The most obvious is that MH 17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet.

    That single fact, from which so much else followed, has never been reported in the mainstream media despite it being the irresistible inference drawn by Dutch investigators more than three years ago.

    That the suppression of the truth has been a major factor in the anti-Russian campaign waged by the Netherlands, Australia and Ukraine is obvious. That the lies, obfuscations and misinformation should be perpetrated by the mainstream media is a sad commentary on the deplorable state of affairs that media has now sunk to.

    James O’Neill, an Australian-based Barrister at Law, exclusively for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    MH17 court cartoon: Dutch judge presents bombshell, US delivers dud - no satellite evidence of Russian shootdown

    John Helmer
    johnhelmer.net
    Tue, 09 Jun 2020 19:08 UTC


    The foundation stone of the Dutch prosecution of the Russian state, three Russian soldiers and a Ukrainian from Donbass for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 is the US satellite imagery of the missile launch, trajectory, and detonation. The US Government publicly laid this foundation within hours of the incident, on July 17, 2014, following the destruction of the 298 people on board.

    If the satellite images are not presented in the trial, which began hearings again this week, the prosecution case fails, either because the US refuses to declassify and release the images, or because they don't exist. If it can be proved that the US has lied about the satellite evidence, and that Dutch prosecutors are repeating this lie in court, then the defence will have the foundation for summary dismissal of the charges.

    On March 23, the presiding judge Hendrik Steenhuis issued an order for the prosecution to produce in court the US satellite images. This week, on June 8, Steenhuis announced the prosecution had responded with a memorandum prepared by another Dutch prosecutor interpreting the satellite images but without revealing them. "The American authorities informed us that they cannot provide any additional information regarding the launch of the missile... and the court understands from this that no further information is to be added to the file as a result."

    The judge did not say this is a violation of his disclosure order. The defence lawyers have not announced the evidence is hearsay, unverifiable, and inadmissible in a court of law. Neither the defence lawyers nor Steenhuis himself have charged the prosecution with contempt of court. The prosecution lawyers, who are continuing this week with an outline of their case, are preparing to repeat the US lie.

    The US satellite images allegedly proving that a BUK missile brought down MH17 have existed for twenty-three days - between July 20 and August 12, 2014. They were the dates of two public statements by then-US Secretary of State John Kerry, claiming: "we picked up the imagery of this launch. We know the trajectory. We know where it came from. We know the timing. And it was exactly at the time that this aircraft disappeared from the radar."

    Since Kerry's remarks, the satellite images have ceased to exist. Since then too, for almost six years, no US Government official has claimed in public, nor told Dutch police, prosecutors, or military intelligence officials in secret, that the images can be viewed with the naked eye.

    Steenhuis confirmed this on Monday. "A request was sent to the American authorities in 2014," he announced, reading from a script. Follow the proceedings here; the judge's ruling on the satellite evidence is between Minute 34:07 and 35:02.

    Left: Judge Hendrik Steenhuis ruling on the non-disclosure of US satellite evidence; Steenhuis was a state tax collector before he became a judge of The Hague District Court. Right: Ward Ferdinandusse, listening to the judge's ruling on the US satellite evidence; Ferdinandusse was a police detective before switching to the prosecutor's office.
    In response to the Dutch request to the US for the evidence in 2014, Steenhuis said, "a memorandum was received from them. A Dutch anti-terrorism prosecutor was given the opportunity to check whether the memorandum was correct. For that reason the classified information was made available to him in a confidential manner. And the public prosecutor came to the conclusion that the memorandum is supported by the other sources he consulted. They also indicated that his statement has been put into the file with a second addition. The American authorities informed us that they cannot provide any additional information regarding the launch of the missile. That was stated in the memorandum that has already been made available to the anti-terrorism prosecutor in a confidential manner. That was the reply from the prosecution regarding the court's question, and the court understands from this that no further information is to be added to the file as a result."

    Steenhuis's ruling is intentionally vague and ambiguous. He provided no date for the request in 2014; no name of the Dutch official who was the go-between with the Americans; the date of the classified US memorandum; the date when that document and the Dutch prosecutor's accompanying report were entered in the prosecution file; the author and date of the "second addition". Steenhuis implied that he has now accepted the prosecution's response as complying with his disclosure order.

    Left: Steenhuis's anonymous reference to the go-between appears to be to Simon Minks, the senior Dutch prosecutor in charge of counter-terrorism. A courtroom lawyer before becoming a state prosecutor, Minks has no technical or military intelligence expertise. There are no details of his education or activities in the US in his authorized biography, which reports he has prosecuted the Tamil Tigers, Saddam Hussein's suppliers, and Somali pirates. Centre: Dr Marco Langbroek, the expert whose evidence on the alleged US satellite images Steenhuis referred to in his disclosure order. Langbroek publishes a regular satellite tracking report of observations made at Leiden. His research has been funded by the University of Leiden and the Dutch Air Force. Right: Major-General Onno Eichelsheim, an Air Force helicopter pilot, who became head of MIVD in April 2016. Last year, Eichelsheim announced that his counterparts in Russian military intelligence were "active here in the Netherlands ... where a lot of international organizations are (based)".
    On March 23, Steenhuis had been explicit. Referring to testimony by Marco Langbroek, a Dutch satellite imagery expert and consultant to the Dutch Air Force, speaking to a committee of the Dutch parliament on January 22, 2016, Steenhuis said he understood Langbroek to believe "that the United States has access to classified satellite images allegedly showing the missile being fired, and these have been shared with Dutch intelligence services. This has been made in a statement by Mr Langbroek who is a satellite expert. Further, it is stated in the [parliamentary committee] documents that the United States has no objection to declassifying this information."

    "The question is whether this is correct and if so, whether the Public Prosecution is considering adding this information to the record through the MIVD or by declassification." MIVD (Militaire Inlichtingen- en Veiligheidsdienst) is the acronym for Dutch military intelligence. The judge was ordering the prosecution to bring to court the US satellite images following declassification, or the record of them from the MIVD.

    For the full story of the US allegations about the satellite images, and Washington's refusal to release them in secret to the Dutch, read this.

    For the court disclosure order of March 23, 2020, read this.

    By concealing the dates and names, Monday's new ruling by Steenhuis covers up for the Dutch prosecutors that between December 2015 and January 2016, meeting behind closed doors, they agreed "we haven't received anything [of the satellite images] from them." That was the acknowledgement by the insiders of the disclosure request they had sent to Washington in 2014. The insiders also told each other at a meeting at the Dutch National Police Central Crime Unit at Driebergen on February 12, 2016: "We should receive the official report from Dutch Military [Intelligence] on U.S. data by mid-March [2016]."

    The data were never handed over. This has been confirmed in secret reports sent from MIVD to the prosecutors on September 21, 2016; they were signed by the MIVD head, Major-General Onno Eichelsheim. The Eichelsheim documents were published several weeks ago, and can be read here. Eichelsheim went further. Not only had MIVD been shown no US satellite images of the shootdown, there was also no NATO electronic, radar or satellite evidence to corroborate the American claims of a missile attack on MH17. The authenticity of the Eichelsheim reports have not been challenged by the Dutch prosecutors; instead, they have accused the Russian secret services of hacking the Dutch prosecution files.

    By concealing the date of the Minks report on the US satellite images and hiding its author, Steenhuis has joined the prosecutors to conceal that MIVD had concluded there were no US satellite images. That was Eichelsheim's conclusion two years after the shootdown; three and half years before Steenhuis ordered the disclosure of the images and the MIVD evidence.

    The judge's new ruling on the satellite evidence is a lie by omission. Drafted, edited, reviewed, retyped, authorized, recited, it has been weeks in preparation.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    ...

    Dutch state leaks expose MH17 trial outlaws, starting with the investigating judge in hiding

    John Helmer
    Dances with Bears
    Thu, 15 Apr 2021 09:32 UTC


    The Dutch Government's trial of the Russian Government for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 reached new lows on Thursday when it was revealed in court that the US Government continues to conceal the satellite evidence alleged to show a BUK missile firing at the aircraft; that the release on Dutch television of thousands of telephone taps of one of the Russian soldiers accused of the shoot-down was the work of the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) and by a source among the Dutch police and prosecutors; and, finally, that an investigating judge has decided in secret to prevent any cross-examination of the Dutch government experts responsible for reports allegedly proving the prosecution's case.

    That investigating judge was acknowledged in court yesterday to be playing a more decisive role than the president of the trial, District Court judge Henrik Steenhuis. Her name is being kept a state secret.

    The hearings in the trial resumed on April 15 after Steenhuis adjourned on February 8. He will hold another session on April 16, then adjourn again until May 20. The formal trial is now scheduled between June 7 and July 9. According to Steenhuis "some investigation will take place after the [trial] hearings."


    The Russian state television company Ruptly, which has been providing an archive copy of the hearings since the trial opened on March 9, 2020, now demands payment for access to their recording. Other Russian state media Sputnik, Tass, and RIA-Novosti have also reduced their coverage of the trial and halted publication of an open-access video film. For the book of the trial and the evidence, read this.

    [...]

    Full article: https://www.sott.net/article/451534-...udge-in-hiding

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Suddenly it's all too clear why this plane was shot down, this is an old article but it didn't really mean anything beyond what it states at the time.

    These people would have been in a unique position to see what is going on now, and now Luc Montagnier, the French virologist who shared a Nobel Prize for discovering HIV, has just died after making uncomfortable claims about covid 19.(I'm not claiming he was bumped off, it's what he's been saying thats of interest)

    Quote About 100 people traveling to a global AIDS conference in Australia were on board the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed and killed 298 people in eastern Ukraine, reports the Sydney Morning Herald.

    The researchers, health workers and activists were on their way to the International AIDS Conference in Melbourne. Among the victims planning to attend was Dutch national Joep Lange, a top AIDS researcher and former International AIDS Society president. Briton Glenn Thomas, a spokesperson for the World Health Organization and a former BBC journalist, was also on flight MH17.

    “The amount of knowledge that these people who died on the plane were carrying with them and the experiences they had developed will have a devastating impact on HIV research,” Owler told TIME.

    “The amount of time it takes to get to a stage where you can come up with those ideas cannot be replaced in a short amount of time. So it does set back work for a cure and strategic prevention of HIV/AIDS very significantly,” he said.
    https://time.com/3003840/malaysia-ai...aids2014-mh17/

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    A new article on Russia Today. I'll copy the whole thing, as some readers may not be able to access the link.
    Russia hit with compensation claim over MH17

    Australia and the Netherlands have launched legal proceedings at the global aviation watchdog over the flight downed in 2014



    Australia and the Netherlands have asked the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to force Russia to pay compensation for the 2014 downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine, the countries announced on Monday.

    ICAO is a UN agency tasked with organizing safe civil air traffic around the world. Canberra and Amsterdam want it to punish Russia for the deadly incident in July 2014, in which an airliner flying over Ukrainian territory was shot down, killing almost 300 people on board. The two nations hold Russia accountable for the tragedy and want the UN body to confirm their position.

    “We want it to be internationally recognized and established that Russia is responsible for the disaster with flight MH17,” Dutch Minister of Infrastructure Mark Harbers told journalists.

    “The Russian Federation’s refusal to take responsibility for its role in the downing of flight MH17 is unacceptable and the Australian government has always said that it will not exclude any legal options in our pursuit of justice,” Australian Foreign Minister Marise Payne said.

    The two nations claim Russia supplied a crewed Buk anti-aircraft missile system to Ukrainian rebels in eastern Ukraine, who were fighting a war against government forces at the time. Their working theory is that the airliner, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was mistaken for a Ukrainian military aircraft before being shot down.

    A murder trial is currently underway in the Netherlands, where four suspects are facing life sentences for their alleged roles in the incident. They are Russian nationals Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinsky, and Oleg Pulatov, as well as Ukrainian national Leonid Kharchenko, all of whom were rebel commanders and are tried in absentia. A verdict in the case is expected later this year.

    Russia has long denied any involvement in the incident and has accused the Dutch-led international investigation of political bias. Moscow claims the probe ignored evidence contradicting their working theory and failed to pressure Ukraine into providing additional data, instead allowing it to be one of the investigators.

    Kiev, Moscow argued, is at least partially responsible for the tragedy since it allowed the civilian aircraft to fly through a war zone despite losing several military planes in the days prior. It also suggested that the Ukrainian military could have shot down the airliner.

    Amid the squabble, in 2020, Moscow refused to keep cooperating with the investigation. Australian and Dutch authorities said pressure applied through ICAO was meant to bring Russia back in and accept culpability for the deaths. Payne told reporters his government may “consider” withdrawing its complaint, if Russia abides by its demands.

    Otherwise, the ICAO could impose all sorts of punishments against Russia, including suspending its voting rights in the organization, Australian Attorney General Michaelia Cash, who spoke alongside Payne, said.

    The Dutch government said its complaint was not filed in response to Russia’s ongoing military incursion in Ukraine, but Foreign Minister Wopke Hoekstra said the hostilities “underscore the vital importance” of holding Russia accountable for the MH17 downing.

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