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Thread: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I think differently on this one Bill. The technology used to shoot down that plane calls for exact calibrations not to mention capturing the ID of those transponder signals of that plane which is also automatically indicated in that technology. So this suggests to us that those who shot down that plane, most likely knew it was a commercial airliner.

    At this point in time, I'm not ruling out that that plane was shot down intentionally and that they knew it was a commercial airliner. I also am not ruling out that Putin may be itching for another world war to team up with China to defeat the Western allies. That's my view.... if it's wrong, then I'll own up to that but this is my view at this present time.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Cheyne (here)
    I'd like to let Avalon know that the plane probably did go down with no survivors. My mother in-law's neighbor lost a family member that was on it. Ironically, she also lost 2 family members on the missing Malaysian Flight.

    I guess something else may of happened other than being shot down (same result for the passengers though), but I'm not feeling it.
    Maybe this story is about those people:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...7-9614230.html


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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Heard about this also on fox radio...
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Quote Posted by Cheyne (here)
    I'd like to let Avalon know that the plane probably did go down with no survivors. My mother in-law's neighbor lost a family member that was on it. Ironically, she also lost 2 family members on the missing Malaysian Flight.

    I guess something else may of happened other than being shot down (same result for the passengers though), but I'm not feeling it.
    Maybe this story is about those people:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...7-9614230.html
    OBADIAH 1:21
    The Good things in life

    "...where ever you go, there you are..."

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    You can think ..whatever , in terms of global agenda .. is because what you know .

    Just consider that those hordes of Cossacks ( not sure with spelling ) , the natives of that area - nicknamed 'rebels' and 'pro-russian separatists' are potentially not interested in anything else than their own territory .
    Like many other ethnics they can turn to ultra-nationalists , especially with weapons in their hands, they have fight for freedom in their blood .
    I don't think they are interested in Russia more than in Ukraine , the space is vast there and they don't want any rule over their heads.

    They were historically , hordes of people who moved on their horses , plundered villages, camped in wild , lived free , similar to Mongolian tribes of old . They revolted against all and any rule . Some served well in armies and many ran away when they could so they did not have to serve anyone.

    I can well imagine they'd be upto anything if it serves their freedom . But the least oriented they are in global strategy and thinking for the planet . To them it matters nothing and who was on that plane .

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I am thinking that Isreal MAY be involved with this. We have the double of the missing MALAYSIAN plane stored away 2 months ago (see articles I posted in this thread) and now Israel are attacking Gaza while we all talk about the MALAYSIAN air crash yesterday.

    Israeli Crowd Cheers As Missile Hits Gaza Live On CNN

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israe...za-live-on-cnn


    Back on the crash - why is nobody talking about the tweets from the air traffic contol regarding fighter jets?


    http://www.infowars.com/ukraine-air-...ssenger-plane/

    Quote Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

    Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
    Last edited by EYES WIDE OPEN; 18th July 2014 at 16:21.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    You can think ..whatever , in terms of global agenda .. is because what you know .

    Just consider that those hordes of Cossacks ( not sure with spelling ) , the natives of that area - nicknamed 'rebels' and 'pro-russian separatists' are potentially not interested in anything else than their own territory .
    Like many other ethnics they can turn to ultra-nationalists , especially with weapons in their hands, they have fight for freedom in their blood .
    I don't think they are interested in Russia more than in Ukraine , the space is vast there and they don't want any rule over their heads.

    They were historically , hordes of people who moved on their horses , plundered villages, camped in wild , lived free , similar to Mongolian tribes of old . They revolted against all and any rule . Some served well in armies and many ran away when they could so they did not have to serve anyone.

    I can well imagine they'd be upto anything if it serves their freedom . But the least oriented they are in global strategy and thinking for the planet . To them it matters nothing and who was on that plane .
    Pretty much true, and this is one possibitity: sheer stupidity mixed with fierce nationalism interpreted as total freedom to do whatever one wants

    There is also the possibility of manipulation from Russia, from USA, from Israel, even from Germany or China, or directly from the dracos for example

    And the possibility of the wanted disappearance of AIDS scientists

    And all of this combined

    It is easy to manipulated stupid people into doing one's plans - ultra nationalists fit this possibility of being manipulated as well.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/index.html C

    Imediately after the shoot down, foreign people entered the nearest control tower that was monitoring flight MH17 and removed the normal workers and started doing their jobs. Normal workers in the tower were "temporarily" relieved. Obviously the "correct" people were put in place there to front the "official" story. These tweets are re-linked HERE and hopefully they will remain intact, they were tweets by the original workers in the tower saying they had been removed: https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489813837013848065 https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489815416701984769 https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489816898545012736 https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489817106259927041 The original people in the tower had witnessed the fact that flight MH17 was being escorted by two fighter jets up until a couple minutes before it disappeared. These fighter jets identified themselves as Ukranian, but I seriously doubt they were. My best guess, based upon other information such as stated cancellations of flight MH17 and conflicting departure times (there can be only one departure time if it was a real departure). These two pieces of information - that no one could agree on a departure time and at least ONE plane tracking web site said the flight was cancelled, pretty much sews this one up - MH17 very probably never took off and was substituted for another identical aircraft. And what identical aircraft was available for this? Flight 370.

    It is highly probable that flight 370 was substituted out, zombie flown via remote by both fighter jets with all original passengers aboard and possibly other undesirables, and then shot down by the fighter jet escorts. Buk missiles produce a very noticeable plume, and no one documented any. In the day of cell phone cams, I would say zero documentation of something so noticeable means no missile launch. This points the finger at the fighter jet escorts which have always been completely scrubbed from the mainstream media and would do the dirty work at an altitude too high for any witnesses. Needless to say then, reports about communication with any originating tower would all be false, but if flight systems were adequately spoofed (or possibly no need to spoof them at all) the "zombie" MH17/370 could report itself as MH17 via falsified transponder to other traffic control towers and none would know anything was amiss because it would have been expected at the appropriate times anyway. And all communication could easily be spoofed by the fighter jet escorts, with no pilots at all aboard MH17/370. While targeting for shoot down, they could just sit there silent and shoot it down.



    EDIT: TWEETS HAVE GONE TO MEMORY HOLE!

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    your twitter connections are already out, do not exist anymore
    those messages should have been copied - they are critical

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    The tweets have gone. This may be very important: Here they are:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

    But again, it could be that "carlos" is just making a joke in bad taste.
    Last edited by EYES WIDE OPEN; 18th July 2014 at 16:30.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    In a problem, reaction, solution scenario, the problem needs to create the reaction of chaos and fear, so that we buy the solution. It's what's happening in the quantum energy field which is the driving force. - [emphasis by observer]
    I couldn't agree with you more, grip.

    The only point of contention among the members is, What controls the hologram? .... with the understanding controlling the hologram is simply the manipulation of the quantum field.

    "They are very clever at what they do...."

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    You can think ..whatever , in terms of global agenda .. is because what you know .

    Just consider that those hordes of Cossacks ( not sure with spelling ) , the natives of that area - nicknamed 'rebels' and 'pro-russian separatists' are potentially not interested in anything else than their own territory .
    Like many other ethnics they can turn to ultra-nationalists , especially with weapons in their hands, they have fight for freedom in their blood .
    I don't think they are interested in Russia more than in Ukraine , the space is vast there and they don't want any rule over their heads.

    They were historically , hordes of people who moved on their horses , plundered villages, camped in wild , lived free , similar to Mongolian tribes of old . They revolted against all and any rule . Some served well in armies and many ran away when they could so they did not have to serve anyone.

    I can well imagine they'd be upto anything if it serves their freedom . But the least oriented they are in global strategy and thinking for the planet . To them it matters nothing and who was on that plane .
    Pretty much true, and this is one possibitity: sheer stupidity mixed with fierce nationalism interpreted as total freedom to do whatever one wants

    There is also the possibility of manipulation from Russia, from USA, from Israel, even from Germany or China, or directly from the dracos for example

    And the possibility of the wanted disappearance of AIDS scientists

    And all of this combined

    It is easy to manipulated stupid people into doing one's plans - ultra nationalists fit this possibility of being manipulated as well.

    It seems they are playing on both sides , making use of the chaos because the chaos serves them well .

    It's the same thing that happened in countries like Afghanistan and similar areas, all they want is get rid of the rule imposed on them historically from other cultures and getting hands on weapons is the only way they think this can be achieved .
    These groups take advantage of their 'aimless mentality' and war as a way of life .

    Whoever supplies them weapons and aids is a 'friend' . Major rift between the superpowers too is a 'friend' , that's how this all started .

    Hard to think of solutions as long as the atmosphere is one of hatred . Everything is connected on the big scheme yes and potentially very dangerous situation .

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Despite alternative media indicating anomalies in this case the room for speculation AND propaganda,
    intentional or opportunistic, does take hold in mainstream media setting the main stage for public
    opinion ... unfortunately.

    We should actually wait using language and terms while there are no hard facts justifying them.
    Like talking about the plane is 'shot down' and yet there is no evidence for that so far.

    Finding evidence for a ground-to-air or air-to-air strike should be easy ... HOWEVER ... because
    of the warlike situation in that area we won't get that evidence I'm afraid. There will always be
    room for speculation that there was time to place or remove that evidence ... whatever suits
    the party making such a claim.

    And in the meantime parties take the opportunity not to let this crisis go to waste. E.g.:
    http://www.telegraaf.nl/tv/nieuws/tt...zichten__.html

    In this short Dutch newscast they report that remorseful Russian people put flowers and notes
    saying 'sorry' at the Dutch embassy because they apparently believe their own president Putin
    is responsible for the death of hundreds of passengers ... really ?!?

    When I called family and friends in the Netherlands yesterday they were already convinced by
    US supplied radar intelligence that a missile was launched from the ground.

    Why not wait with all these energy draining speculations, gather hard evidence first and
    keep the signal to noise ratio to acceptable levels?
    Last edited by Operator; 18th July 2014 at 16:47. Reason: half a sentence was missing ...

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I was wondering why the plane was flying over a war zone ?

    There was a 'no' fly zone upto 32, 000 ft and the airliner
    was flying at 33, 000 so this asks more questions from
    a 'false flag ' point of view.Could the missile fly higher ? or was
    the plane lower ? There was still a large amount of traffic
    flying over the area until yesterday,see article below.....


    1) If it was pro Russian Seperatists , why did they do it ?

    2) I would of thought it was a mistake, and they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane ...

    3) As planes still fly over regularly the Russians would know that and would not
    attack imo. They have nothing at all to gain by doing something like this and
    everthing to lose. Unless they were creating a 'False flag' to blame the Ukrainians
    which is unlikely .

    4) The Ukrainians would obviously gain by blaming either the seperatists or Russians.


    5)Then you go into the wider false flag conspiracies.....


    -----------------------------------------------------------




    18 July 2014 Last updated at 13:14

    Who, what, why: How often do planes fly over conflict zones?Magazine Monitor
    Who, What, Why


    The crash of Malaysian airliner MH17 in eastern Ukraine has raised questions
    about which conflict zones commercial jets will fly over. Who decides where
    is safe to fly, asks Tom de Castella.

    Most of the decisions about a route are taken by airlines. But they must avoid
    no-fly zones. The area where the Malaysian airliner crashed had a no-fly zone
    in place up to 32,000ft (9,754m). The airliner was flying at 33,000ft (10,058m).

    There are also national aviation bodies to consider. For example, the US's
    Federal Aviation Administration in April issued a Notam (notice to airmen)
    that prohibited US airliners from flying over the Crimean region of Ukraine
    and nearby areas of the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. After the crash of
    MH17 it widened that to cover the whole of Ukraine.

    Continue reading the main story
    The answer
    No-fly zones must be avoided
    A national aviation authority can ban its airlines from flying over part of a foreign country
    Otherwise it is up to the airlines to decide

    British Airways has been avoiding eastern Ukraine for some time, the BBC
    understands. But many airlines continued to fly over it. According to Flight
    radar24, which monitors live flight paths, the airlines that most frequently
    flew over Donetsk in eastern Ukraine in the last week were: Aeroflot 86 (flights),
    Singapore Airlines 75, Ukraine International Airlines 62, Lufthansa 56, and
    Malaysian 48. It was not necessarily a risky approach. The chance of a rocket
    reaching above 32,000 feet was considered remote, says Sylvia Spruck Wrigley,
    author of Why Planes Crash.

    The UK's Civil Aviation Authority says airlines' decisions will be based on a range
    of factors - advice from the Foreign Office, warnings in the area, weather,
    navigation aids, strikes and which airports are out of action. They will generally
    fly the shortest route - a long detour around a warzone will cause delay and
    add extra fuel costs.




    A map of Ukraine and surrounding countries tracking all active planes. Only a few
    planes cross Ukrainian air space After the attack: Airliners avoid eastern Ukraine
    Airlines fly over most trouble spots, says Mikael Robertsson, co-founder of Flight
    radar24. They have to get from A to B in the most efficient manner possible. Syria
    is probably the only airspace that everyone avoids. Other trouble spots - North Korea
    and Somalia - airliners do fly over, he says, although it is hard to verify how common this is.

    A pilot told the Guardian that "We would often avoid areas where there is air-to-air
    conflict, but we flew over Iraq and Afghanistan when the British and US armed forces
    were deployed there, because only one side was using military jets."

    Airlines tend to be secretive about operational details, perhaps for security reasons.
    BA says that it will not give "further details" on its routes, adding: "Some parts of the
    world are closed to commercial airline operations and we would never fly in airspace
    unless we were satisfied that it was safe to do so." It still flies to Ukraine, although
    not over the east of the country.

    Qantas would only say: "We don't fly over the Ukraine. For London to Dubai we fly
    400 nautical miles south of the region."

    Subscribe to the BBC News Magazine's email newsletter to get articles

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-maga...nitor-28364306

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    lastest BBC news report


    18 July 2014 Last updated at 17:19

    MH17 crash: OSCE investigators reach east Ukraine site


    Confirmed death toll so far

    Netherlands: 189
    Malaysia: 44 (including 15 crew)
    Australian: 27
    Indonesia: 12
    UK: 9
    Germany: 4
    Belgium: 4
    Philippines: 3
    Canada: 1
    New Zealand: 1
    Unverified: 4


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Possible system used if it was a ground to air missile..

    Used by both the Russian and Ukrainian armies


    Buk surface-to-air missile system



    SA-11 Gadfly
    Also known as SA-11 Gadfly (or newer SA-17 Grizzly)

    Russian-made, mobile, medium range system

    Weapons: Four surface-to-air missiles

    Missile speed (max): Mach 3

    Target altitude (max): 22,000 metres (72,000ft)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28361908

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------



    short vid on link....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28375256

    President Obama says the deaths are an "outrage of unspeakable proportions"

    President Obama: 'Evidence Malaysia jet was shot down'15 minutes ago

    President Obama has said there is evidence that the Malaysia Airlines flight, which
    crashed in eastern Ukraine on Thursday, was shot down by a surface-to-air-missile
    from an area controlled by pro-Russia separatists.

    Mr Obama described the downing of the plane, with 295 people on board, as
    an "outrage of unspeakable proportions".

    The US president went on to demand a "credible international investigation", an
    immediate ceasefire and access to the crash site.

    Read more
    MH17 crash: OSCE investigators reach east Ukraine site

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28375256
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 18th July 2014 at 17:15.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?



    Rebel fighter describing how Kiev regime tried unsuccessfully to lure the rebels into shooting down an airliner by mistake. Remember to switch on English subtitles.

    Put subtitles on.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    it would not be surprising if he ends up tampering and erasing any information in those boxes if he finds anything that indicates that his mercenaries/the Separatists were the ones who shot down that plane..

    But why would Russian separatists ever have done that??

    Framing Russia, to meet a new-Cold-War global agenda, makes a great deal more logical sense. (Either that, or it was a mistake, with some Ukrainian faction having intended to bring down Putin's plane.)
    To put it honestly Bill, I think Putin will be reveling in this...

    Quote He's got the ((Black Box)) which means, one way or another he will know the Truth as to what really happened to MH17

    &

    What really Cracks me up is he will KNOW if they really did try to Assassinate him by targeting his jet...
    All seriousness aside of this tragic event...

    Quote This is Geo-Political (Comical-Theatre) at its best and we all have (Front Row Seats)
    The ((Old World Order)) are simply NOT going to make it through to the other side this time...

    Really, have a look at the players on the TEAM US...

    Biden, McCain, Obama, Hitlary & Kerry and all of them against just 1 man with some Powerful friends...

    Like I said the OWO are not going to make it out of this one, even if they drop a Nuke in the middle of America..!

    They're Done, Kaput, Nada - Outta-here..!

    The (CHANGE) has already occurred...

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Operator (here)
    We should actually wait using language and terms while there are no hard facts justifying them.
    Like talking about the plane is 'shot down' and yet there is no evidence for that so far.
    the lack of critical thinking on this topic is a good litmus test for "where we are" as a people....

    (so let me join in!)

    Unless I'm missing something (VERY VERY likely) This entire situation may have just been a test of the current psycology... this could just be a "test run" to see how gullable we are before other actions are taken.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    Thanks Christine. I'm still going to stick by what I said though about those who are pro-Russian/Putin here and I said it because I think it's true and I'm still think it's true. This is a forum where we are permitted to give our viewpoints even if it goes against the prevailing one. In my view, several alternative news sources have been consistently pro-Putin over the course of the past few years. And in the case of this downed airliner, I'm once again seeing this sentiment throughout the reporting of yesterday's incident at those news sites and blogs regardless that there's much more information that strongly suggests that the fault may ultimately lie with Putin's Separatists in the case of this plane. IMHO, the vast majority of participants here are quoting those same pro-Putin sources regardless of the glaring errors in the form of sig. omissions, and blatant slanting toward their Pro-Putin stance in those reports of that incident that they are posting here. I feel that that justifies my very real concern that we are not seeing anything remotely close to what is termed "Fair and Balanced" reporting on this incident in this thread.

    Obviously, I'm not going to gain any popularity votes by pointing this out but I'm just giving my own opinion on this. If, later on, I find out that I was wrong about my opinion on this, I will be the first one to admit that and own up to it. But at this present time, I have expressed where I'm at with this now and my disappointment that most here in this thread are only focusing on one side of this issue having to do with the demise of this airliner.
    Don't be so hard on yourself Roisin, everyone's entitled to their own opinion...

    I think people that tend to believe Putin's side of the story, have not formed that opinion with anything they have learnt from the MSM...

    I think those that are looking for rational answers are more likely to side with Putin due to his standing up against the establishment i.e. BRICS and their (New Bank) that will now compete DIRECTLY with the World Bank & IMF. Not to mention Putin and his Allies running a mile away from the 'Petro-Dollar', etc...

    Plus, most other Countries have had an absolute (Gutful) of US Foreign Policy..!!!

    Having said that, all bets are 'OFF' if Putin is (In-On-It)?

    We are all Toast...
    Last edited by jackovesk; 18th July 2014 at 18:05.

  27. Link to Post #218
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    For what it's worth... WGN Channel 9 out of Chicago IL, is now reporting that the plane was "shot down" from 34,000 feet, when yesterday they said 33,000,
    and that there was 298 people killed, when yesterday they reported 295.

    I'm wondering why the change? When they reported the figures yesterday there was no verbiage that made it seem like they weren't absolutely sure, like "we're hearing reports of up to 295 people" or "around 33,000 feet," they were very definite in their wording.... yet today they are just as definite but different, with no acknowledgement of a change.

    Weird.... and I'm guessing it affects any numerology being done.
    Last edited by the_real_dave-id; 18th July 2014 at 17:26.

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  29. Link to Post #219
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Operator (here)
    We should actually wait using language and terms while there are no hard facts justifying them.
    Like talking about the plane is 'shot down' and yet there is no evidence for that so far.
    the lack of critical thinking on this topic is a good litmus test for "where we are" as a people....

    (so let me join in!)

    Unless I'm missing something (VERY VERY likely) This entire situation may have just been a test of the current psycology... this could just be a "test run" to see how gullable we are before other actions are taken.
    Just part of the (PRS) package, is all...

    PS - Remember, most of their Cards have already been played...

    WWIII... Only if (No-one Stands Up to Them) on a Political level..!

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    What would it take to shoot down Malaysia jet?

    To shoot down a commercial airliner at cruising altitude would require advanced anti-air missile systems. Among the easiest systems to employ would be man-portable air-defense systems, known as MANPADS. But some experts ruled out that possibility.

    ‘‘First off, a MANPAD did not shoot down that airliner,’’ a former Marine Special Operations member trained in air defense systems said. ‘‘A MANPADS original purpose is for low-flying aircraft with high-heat signatures.’’


    ‘‘Like helicopters,’’ he added.

    MANPADS have been known to target commercial aircraft — but usually only during takeoff and landing, when the jets are moving the slowest and are the most vulnerable. A DHL transport plane was struck by an SA-14, a type of MANPAD, shortly after departing Baghdad international airport in 2003.

    ‘‘MANPADS don’t have the fuel to continue tracking a fast moving target at high altitude,’’ said the special operations member, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.

    Pro-Russian separatists have denied allegations that they brought down the aircraft, saying they lack weapons systems that would be able to target an airliner at a cruising altitude near 30,000 ft. At the same time, rebels in eastern Ukraine claimed that they had shot down a Ukrainian transport plane earlier this week. That plane, an IL-76, was shot down at 21,000 ft, according to U.S. officials. Three crew members were killed.

    Both Russia and Ukraine have moved advanced air defense systems near their borders in recent months, including the SA-17 Buk 2. The SA-17, known to NATO countries as the ‘‘Grizzly,’’ is an advanced iteration of the SA-11 ‘‘Gadfly’’ and is fielded by a number of countries.

    The SA-17 is a surface-to-air missile system that can be fired from either a wheeled or a tracked chassis and can engage aircraft at anywhere from altitudes of roughly 32 feet to 78,000 feet, putting flight MH17 easily within range.

    The SA-17 guides its missiles via a radar array, unlike MANPADS, which mostly use a heat signature for guidance.

    Flight MH17 was a Boeing 777-200, with a wingspan of 199 feet, while the Il-76, the aircraft shot down Monday in eastern Ukraine, has a wingspan of 165 feet.

    ‘‘To a radar operator, the two aircraft might look similar,’’ said Navy Pilot Lt. James Swiggart, who has flown early-warning aircraft.

    However, Swiggart explained, advanced surface-to-air systems like the SA-17 are transponder aware, meaning they can detect if they are targeting an airliner. Civilian airlines are constantly broadcasting a four-digit transponder, known as an IFF code, that designates aircraft as civilian. The code would be detected by the SA-17 if the weapons system attempted to lock on or ‘‘paint’’ MH17.

    ‘‘It’s easy to tell the difference between a civilian aircraft or not, if you’re a skilled radar operator,’’ Swiggart said. ‘‘There’s really no excuse to shoot down an airliner unless you were trying to.’’

    Swiggart added that airliners fly well-established routes at regulated speeds. And while military aircraft have an advanced warning system in case they are being targeted by anti-aircraft missiles, civilian aircraft have no such device.

    ‘‘They would have had no idea,’’ Swiggart said.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/worl...rticle_Related

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