Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Zamolxe]

Posted by Daphne (here)

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?

Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

Thanks Paul. I am feeling quite chastised.

Daphne, I'm sorry if I have offended you. I just did not understand why you so zealously implied that the pictures I posted were fake.

I'll ask you again and would be delighted to receive your answer as this seems to have turned into a debate. Please tell me, what do you base your assumptions on that the photos are fake? these were photos posted on russian media, before western journalists could reach the scene. If they are fake, why would russian media fake them?

Also, I'm sorry if I was offensive in asking you how much you knew of the conflict before the crash, but I would love to read your take on how the evidence (luggage, fuselage) was planted by the ukrainian army (as you said) in this particular area and in this particular context. was it before the plane crashed or after it crashed (in the short time before the rebels that control the area head to the site)? And why would they plant it? To make us believe it was a different plane than what actually crashed?

I would still like to hear an answer to how much you knew of the conflict before this event because you were so convinced of your point of view, and wouldn't hear any other argument. I think you can only prove me wrong and demonstrate that you were in knowledge of this subject and weren't making assumptions based on nothing.

Since the news of the disaster I immediately followed the thread on avalon to try and get extra info than what was reported on pro-west, pro-russian and neutral news channels... But I was actually shocked to see how quick avalon users were jumping to conclusions about the cabal's involvement, just as quick as the western media said it was the rebels who shot it down.
Also, I've been tracking the ukrainian situation since november 2013 and have watched tens and tens of hours of reporting from pro-western, pro-russian and neutral observers. I even have personal friends that have been on location reporting.
The way that some users (that I actually appreciated from other posts on this site) have been jumping to absurd conclusions and showing in some instances that they have absolutely no idea about this conflict has quite frankly really disapointed me. I am never fervent about a subject if I know nothing about it. First investigate, then try to make rational conclusions.

This video of DHABOO7 in my opinion is a total disgrace to the truth movement and people like him are parasites that will only further us away from answering our already numerous questions.
For me the video is even more stupid than the lies that CNN tries to pass by as reporting.

[Roisin]

The long and the short of it? As a distraction for what's going on now between Israel and the Hamas. This from the view higher up on the pyramid. Israel initiated its ground defense against the Hamas on the same day that plane went down. This was not a coincidence and was planned all along.

The Ukrainians moved one of their Buk systems into rebel territory and then left it there to make it look like the rebels had their own fully operational Buk system so they could say that the rebels used it to shoot down that plane.

The Ukrainians then guided that airliner (correction, my previous source on this was incorrect.) Corrected to --> 14 km off track via 2 of their military jets where they told the pilot to descend down to 33,000 ft so they could then blast it out of the sky using a jet- to- target sophisticated Buk system. IOWs, one of those military escort jets shot down that airliner or another separate Ukrainian military jet that was positioned ahead of time shot it down once it was over the area where they wanted the debris to fall.

The secondary objective to all of this was to turn Putin into the bogeyman so they (Ukraine and the West) can impose more sanctions on Russia and force him to stay out of the Ukraine.

[TigaHawk]

They want to send troops in but without the public's backing it will be difficult. To get the public's backing, they create a reason for hatred and want for revenge.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
Before any tells you otherwise this is footage from Ukraine Military Aircraft Shot Down Over Slovyansk a month ago. NOT the Malaysia crash.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=n60vAtZBrsI

VERY disapointed to see that Vetarns Today / Rense have posted the video above as evidence. I posted it here days ago and just as I predicted, its been called footage of the shootdown. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07...p-established/

I expect more from them.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-c__Fm5liCo

Kiev’s evidence of militia’s responsibility for airliner crash Video conversation is faked - expert

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741521

A tape posted by Ukrainian security services in the Internet and allegedly recording a talk between self-defense fighters about the destruction of a Malaysian airliner is a fake, experts said on Sunday.
A group of experts studied the tape and came to the conclusion that it was made up of numerous unrelated recordings.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20...ee-in-ukraine/

What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?
July 20, 2014

Exclusive: The U.S. media’s Ukraine bias has been obvious, siding with the Kiev regime and bashing ethnic Russian rebels and Russia’s President Putin. But now – with the scramble to blame Putin for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down – the shoddy journalism has grown truly dangerous, says Robert Parry.

What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

If you do not know who Robert Parry is - he is no lightweight when it comes to journalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)

[SilentFeathers]

Interesting (VIDEO) interview with the rebel leader about the plane crash in this cnn article.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17: Eight unanswered questions

Also, a tidbit about Joe Biden's son.....

Burisma Holdings’ Board Member Hunter Biden outlines his mission for the Company

“Burisma’s track record of innovation and industry leadership in the field of natural gas means that it can be a strong driver of a strong economy in Ukraine. As a new member of the Board, I believe that my assistance in consulting the Company on matters of transparency, corporate governance and responsibility, international expansion and other priorities will contribute to the economy and benefit the people of Ukraine.”

The Chairman of the Board of Directors of Burisma Holdings, Mr. Alan Apter, noted: “The company’s strategy is aimed at the strongest concentration of professional staff and the introduction of best corporate practices, and we’re delighted that Mr. Biden is joining us to help us achieve these goals.”

http://burisma.com/hunter-biden-join...isma-holdings/

[ktlight]

Posted by airaspect (here)
Also those passports were probably inside personal luggage.

Passports are held by the owner, usually in a safe place on the person.

The plane was 30,000+ in the sky

If a rocket had hit it, there would be fragments of the plane over a very large area, probably no fire.

How is it possible for pristine passports to be collected from charred bodies and/or why would there be so many passports in one piece of luggage.

[Abhaya]

This breaking news blurb just popped up on RT.

http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-p...ussia-ukraine/

Ukrainian Su-25 fighter recorded in close approach to MH17 before crash - Russian military

[Cidersomerset]

This is a couple of days old but I don't think has been posted.....


Special Report: Malaysian Flight False Flag Evidence Revealed

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BY4W-8qNnD0

Published on 19 Jul 2014


Less than 24 hours after the devastating attack that downed Malaysian
Airlines Flight MH17, Neocons and their state-run media would have us
believe the case is closed...before an investigation has even been launched.
We break down the repetitive false-flag narrative.

[SilentFeathers]

Check this out.....and we are suppose to believe MH17 wasn't being watched with a magnifying glass before it went down???????????

If a Ukraine fighter jet took MH17 down, this article implies NATO is involved in the coverup....IMO

Seven NATO countries completed naval exercises in the Black Sea on Thursday, officials said, in a signal of the alliance's resolve to support east European members who have been unnerved by Russia's behavior in the Ukraine crisis.

Though scheduled before the crisis erupted, the war games took on added significance because of Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Black Sea peninsula of Crimea in March, and the subsequent outbreak of a pro-Russian separatist rebellion in eastern Ukraine.

Led by the Bulgarian navy, the 10-day drills aimed to improve tactical coordination of allied units “in a multi-threat environment,” NATO has said. Vessels took part from Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Britain and the United States.

“The navy exercises BREEZE 2014 successfully concluded,” a Bulgarian defense ministry spokesman said. The Romanian Navy said exercises involved commercial traffic monitoring, reaction to asymmetric threat warnings, anti-submarine warfare and artillery firing.

http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-n...d/1959529.html

PS: I'm finding info saying this operation ended before MH17 went down, but it still suggest some very high tech equipment most likely was still in the "neighborhood" when MH17 did go down....

[Hervé]

...

[jackovesk]

Yep, these stories keep piling up don't they...

Further to what Cidersomerset & others have brought to the table Re: Satellite Surveylance

................

Whistleblower: U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17

Source tells award winning reporter Washington lying about responsibility for tragedy

July 21, 2014



Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry has been told by an intelligence source that the United States is in possession of satellite imagery which shows that Ukrainian troops were responsible for the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17.

In the absence of any proper investigation, media rhetoric over the last few days has firmly pointed the finger of blame for the downing of the aircraft on Russian-backed Ukrainian rebels, but Parry’s source tells a different story.

What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

Although the establishment press has attempted to deride any questioning of the official narrative that Ukrainian rebels were responsible for the incident by invoking the tired “conspiracy theory” pejorative, Parry can hardly be dismissed as a crank given his key role in covering the Iran-Contra scandal for the Associated Press and Newsweek. Indeed, Parry’s investigative work on intelligence matters, for which he was awarded the George Polk Award, suggests that the information provided by his source is worthy of serious attention.

U.S. and Ukrainian authorities continue to insist that Moscow-backed separatists were responsible for the tragedy, asserting that a BUK missile system was used to bring down the airliner. However, this was contradicted by Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Vitaliy Yarema, who stated, “The military told the president after the passenger plane had been shot down that the terrorists did not possess our Buk missile systems.”

In a related development, audio experts who conducted a study into the authenticity of a recording released by Ukrainian authorities which implicated Russian-backed rebels as being responsible for the missile attack on MH17 concluded that the tape was fabricated.

“The tape’s second fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed that the dialog was cut into pieces and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved time marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes, the expert said,” reports ITAR-TASS.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E

http://www.prisonplanet.com/whistleb...down-mh17.html

[Daphne]

Posted by Zamolxe (here)

Posted by Daphne (here)

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?

Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?
?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

Thanks Paul. I am feeling quite chastised.

Daphne, I'm sorry if I have offended you. I just did not understand why you so zealously implied that the pictures I posted were fake.

I'll ask you again and would be delighted to receive your answer as this seems to have turned into a debate. Please tell me, what do you base your assumptions on that the photos are fake? these were photos posted on russian media, before western journalists could reach the scene. If they are fake, why would russian media fake them?

Also, I'm sorry if I was offensive in asking you how much you knew of the conflict before the crash, but I would love to read your take on how the evidence (luggage, fuselage) was planted by the ukrainian army (as you said) in this particular area and in this particular context. was it before the plane crashed or after it crashed (in the short time before the rebels that control the area head to the site)? And why would they plant it? To make us believe it was a different plane than what actually crashed?

I would still like to hear an answer to how much you knew of the conflict before this event because you were so convinced of your point of view, and wouldn't hear any other argument. I think you can only prove me wrong and demonstrate that you were in knowledge of this subject and weren't making assumptions based on nothing.

Since the news of the disaster I immediately followed the thread on avalon to try and get extra info than what was reported on pro-west, pro-russian and neutral news channels... But I was actually shocked to see how quick avalon users were jumping to conclusions about the cabal's involvement, just as quick as the western media said it was the rebels who shot it down.
Also, I've been tracking the ukrainian situation since november 2013 and have watched tens and tens of hours of reporting from pro-western, pro-russian and neutral observers. I even have personal friends that have been on location reporting.
The way that some users (that I actually appreciated from other posts on this site) have been jumping to absurd conclusions and showing in some instances that they have absolutely no idea about this conflict has quite frankly really disapointed me. I am never fervent about a subject if I know nothing about it. First investigate, then try to make rational conclusions.

This video of DHABOO7 in my opinion is a total disgrace to the truth movement and people like him are parasites that will only further us away from answering our already numerous questions.
For me the video is even more stupid than the lies that CNN tries to pass by as reporting.

It's not about "you" Zamoixe. It's about a very media driven script that includes pictures of passports that look perfect when the plane just crashed and they are supposed to Have been found in that "wreckage" site? Do you recall how pristine passports of the so called hijackers were found on 9/11? These are strategically placed media messages designed to add "proof" that it's not a false flag to the incident. Perhaps Dahboo is sensationalistic. But it doesn't take away the strong possibility that this is a completely staged event.

How I come to my conclusions is much like you do. I do not know anyone there, I also do not pollute my mind with traditional news sources like cnn or network news - I'm not interested in their propaganda. I watch many different sources from YouTube videos to alternative news on the internet.

I was simply stating an opinion based on my experience and knowledge. I disagree with you. I can live with that. It also happens to be an opinion that many people here share. I definitely do not like feeling like I'm being treated in a condescending manner.

[GoodETxSG]

Untrained investigators hunting and pecking through a majority of the information in a Thread (No matter its Title/Topic), grabbing the data that most favors the point they were trying to make... then doing a "Mexican Hat Dance" around that information and being reactionary (visceral as opposed to logical Forum response?) is exactly how I would want a target audience to react to my PSYOP.

I am just saying this makes some of my points in this and other Threads for me... (And yes everyone is welcome to their own opinion, that is what is counted on in PSYOP 101, Illusion of ideology being your own...). I guess out of all of this information certain things are going to "POP" out more for those who want to debate than want to get to the bottom of an issue...

DHAB007 "may" be 60% disinfo/BS (I really have only followed his video's accept when sources have pointed one out to me and that has only been on a few occasions), I do not know the ratio of disinfo on his channel as I do not subscribe/follow his every video but like I have said in other Threads about sifting through Intel (In "Hip High" wading boots) those who are not trained to do so have no stomach or temperament for it. To be clear the passport info was just a piece of the puzzle and not a slam dunk for any type.

You usually have to "Dumpster Dive in your favorite Tuxedo" with just about every source that provides you information to be able to dig out a few nuggets of Actionable Intel... (AKA Good Info). No one source is going to lay out the "Good Intel" for you on the table in one single source (DOES NOT HAPPEN, ONLY IN THE MOVIES), you have to put the puzzle together by doing the dirty work and using your brain to decide what is BS and what jives or fits the puzzle.

That is what Real Operatives do for a living, it's not glamorous, its not fun, its very frustrating and it is a matter of back checking (And ReChecking) on sources intel with various other sources of intel in as much of a "Blind Taste Test" way as possible. Then you ferret out the most likely sources which have Intel that coobberate.

I have no horse in the race as far as DHABOO7 other than I have been pointed to his Intel on a hand full of occasions where parts of his info panned out. All the rest of his info could be pure BS (Like I said) for all I know but that is not how Gathering Intelligence to present up the Chain of Command works. You pass on bad intel/Dis-info one time and tarnish your reputation among your peers and leadership then spend years to redeem themselves.

Just like Cops work with shady "CI's" that lie to them and do things that turn their stomachs you have to get your boots dirty and stinky and learn not to throw the Baby out with the Bath Water because the "Source" turns your stomach (Visceral Response that doesn't last long in professionals, one embarrassing instance of being played will do it for you)... It takes training, experience and more than a few mistakes to become somewhat competent enough to have your assessments in a folder near the top of the stack... I KNOW most Avalonians are not trained Intel Agents and are doing the best they can.

If one can set aside an argument for a moment and decide to begin to learn how these groups think if you want to swim in their waters or go head to head with them you will save yourself some long term confusion and falling into their ideology traps.

The story circulating of the missing flight bodies being recovered at the UK crash sight... that doesn't track at all. If all of the first plane incident Intel is as reported then the bodies were disposed of at Diego Garcia and I will spare you the most used methods to "Erase every Trace" of that many bodies and DNA etc (Mass graves etc leave too much evidence)... The secret governments recruit psychopaths for a reason.

Why would there be bodies as described at the crash scene along with the redacted epidemiologists from the planes manifest (Most likely specimens who died from various stages of a nasty virus... my educated opinion on this matter)? Rumors among all of the agencies is that the Cabal has a bio-weapon/virus/plague that is fast moving and intended to wipe out a large amount of the population that just needs to be delivered... that last statement is based off of these rumors and very real fears based on these rumors that have had more than anecdotal evidence has been offered in briefings about such a "Terror and WMD". Though kind of off topic...

Meanwhile the Cabal is wasting no time positioning itself before any International Investigators produce any results! They have a SMALL WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY for many reasons and they are not ones to waste any opportunity!

PUTIN GIVEN 48 HOUR ULTIMATUM TO LET INVESTIGATORS PROBE MH17 CRASH SITE, AS CAMERON, MERKEL AND HOLLANDE SAY THEY ARE 'READY' TO HIT RUSSIA WITH FRESH SANCTIONS
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Putin...38/38/Y/M.html

SPECULATIVE EDIT: As a foot note, as a tie in to my Thread on International Banking and Military Intel Types Running for their lives... When I wrote the thread they were first beginning to disappear and go on the run or to their "safe places". This thread was prior to all of the suspicious deaths of bankers and economists and a few Intelligence Operatives... Wouldn't a "Plane Crash" be a perfect way to either fake your death/disappear or actually disappear a person? (Complete and TOTAL speculation on my part, take w/a grain of salt!)
Thread: Why Are the Bankers and Ex-Intel Types Running For Their Lives? (Confirmed for MONTHS by my vanishing sources);
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...shing-sources-

[Selene]

Amazing post, Goode. Very, very well said.

Much thanks,

Selene

[jackovesk]

Wrap your head around this MSM Story...

...........................

MH17 conspiracy theories: What happened to downed Malaysia Airlines plane?



July 21, 2014

WHENEVER there is a tragedy on such a scale as the downed Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane, there are bound to be conspiracy theories that follow as the world tries to understand and deal with the tragedy.

While there’s no doubt many are based simply on paranoia or speculation, they won’t be able to be dismissed until the black box is recovered and the world gets answers.

Here are (6 Conspiracy Theories) about MH17, according to the Washington Post.

1. It was an HIV/AIDS cover up

The terrible news that the plane held prominent HIV/AIDS researchers sparked speculation that it was not a random target. One theory proposed that the attack was a cover-up for the so-called “man-made origins” of AIDS - which is another theory in itself. It has been pointed out that 16 years ago, AIDS patient advocate and World Health official Jonathan Mann was also killed in a plane crash that some still find suspicious.

2. It was an attempt to start WWIII

While it’s not yet clear exactly why the missile was fired at the plane, some believe it was an attempt to bring on the next world war.

“We can clearly see an attempted false flag to launch WWIII unfolding,” a commenter said on the website Before Its News. They also pointed to a Russian tweet predicting the deliberate downing of a plane full of people, as an instigation of a NATO invasion.

Скоро над Руиной будет сбит лайнер битком набитый невинными евро-туристами. Це явится поводом для официального приглашения НАТО. Так вижу.

1:45 AM - 18 Jun 2014

Translation: “Soon will be shot down over the ruins of the liner packed full of innocent Euro-tourists. It will be the occasion for the official invitation to NATO. So I see.”

Though this theory doesn’t make sense, as killing innocent people is not a very stratigic move for NATO.

3. It was an assasination attempt on Putin

Russia’s Interfax news agency claimed that Russian President Vladimir Putin was on board his personal jet and flying on the exact same route as MH17 at the same time. His plane was the same size and colour as the Malaysia Airlines flight.

The claim was debunked with the news that Putin’s plane hadn’t flown over the Ukraine since the beginning of the conflict



Russia's President Vladimir Putin descends from his plane. Source: AFP

4. The jet wasn’t actually shot down

A conspiracy blogger who’s popular on YouTube called DAHB0077 proposed that the plane was actually diverted into the area where it was blown up by explosives from onboard so it could appear to have been shot down. This could then be an excuse for an invasion.

He claims his suspicion was born from footage showing the plane exploding on the ground instead of in the air, but experts say this is actually possible upon the event of a mile-high missile strike.



The moments after MH17 was shot out of the sky over the Ukraine. Source: Supplied

5. MH17 is MH370

They’re both Boeing 777s, from the same airline, with a commenter from the forum Above Top Secret stating: “It could be the MH370 rigged with explosives” that has only just reappeared after vanishing for months. Why would they do this? To start WWIII.

6. Many were already dead before the plane took off

This bizarre theory comes from a top pro-Russian rebel commander in eastern Ukraine.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Ultimately, these theories wont’ be true, but the hunt for answers about what really happened to flight MH17 will continue.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...-1226995523375

PSS - They got close on a couple and left the rest sailing up into the ether as a...

(Conspiratorial 'Cacophony' of Madness)...

Did they really say this...

Though this theory doesn’t make sense, as killing innocent people is not a very stratigic move for NATO...

The INFOWAR

It really is (US vs THEM) isn't it...

[Selene]

Posted by Zamolxe
...they went through the luggage to find passports and determine who was on board...

Collecting passports to find out who was onboard was completely unnecessary. That flight – like all flights – would have had a passenger manifest with all the relevant data on file before it took off.

I don’t know if you fly much, but that little barcode on your boarding pass contains all the data from your passport. Time-stamps are added to your file every time you go through a checkpoint on your way to the plane. That’s all saved in a central file.

And in a crash, first responders are looking for survivors (or sometimes they might be looters looking for goodies. No indication of looting anywhere here). But no one would be looking for ID right off the bat. Those photos of fresh passports and pristine boarding cards were taken within minutes of the crash. Too soon to have been collected on site at any rate.

Posted by Zamolxe
they actually thought the plane could be carrying ukrainian spies or something

Logic check: The plane was not scheduled to stop in Ukraine. It was going to Malaysia. Why would it be full of “Ukrainian spies”? Logic fail here. Are you trying to somehow imply that it was shot down by Russian, not Ukrainian, forces....? The question of Whodunnit and Why is still open.


Cheers,

Selene

[jackovesk]

What the Media Won’t Report About Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17

July 21, 2014

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8guKpjF9Z-Y

Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!

While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.

The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.

Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the US media has it right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it’s very difficult to get accurate information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it. Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-the...ight-mh17.html

[SilentFeathers]

When the truth stares you in the face......


Putin and Merkel at the World Cup Final


Ukraine slates Merkel for ‘cosying up’ to Putin at World Cup as bitter virals compare her to Hitler’s right hand man von Ribbentrop



Defiant Putin warns the West not to use MH17 tragedy for 'selfish political ends', as Ukraine accuses Russia of spiriting away shrapnel-hit bodies to avoid implicating rebels

Incubating a non-dollar architecture

After two years of intense negotiation, the BRICS leaders finally launched the New Development Bank on July 15 at the Sixth BRICS Summit in Fortaleza, Brazil. The bank’s focus will be on infrastructure and sustainable development projects through loans, guarantees, credits and equity investments. The decision to share the initial subscribed capital of $50 billion and the resulting voting rights equally, reflects a commitment by the five countries to view each other with equity[1].

The launch of the bank will now give the BRICS five confidence to experiment with other geoeconomic ambitions. Chief among them is the desire to conduct trade in local currencies. Russia is moving to denominate its energy assets in roubles, China is pushing for the renminbi to become the global currency of choice for trade payments, and India was creatively using rupee accounts to hold payments for Iran after the U.S. and EU imposed financial sanctions on Iran.

http://www.gatewayhouse.in/incubatin...-architecture/

Hmmm? what's up with this???????????????

Malaysia could overtake BRICs

BRICS , Israel and SA's role in world politics

The BRICS bank and the reserve pool as an alternative to the IMF and World Bank offer the possibility for dozens of other nations to escape the Argentine plight. Not to mention the possibility that other emerging nations such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran and Turkey may soon contribute to both institutions.
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/BRICS...itics-20140718

In a nut shell, it's always about power and money.....

[airaspect]

Posted by ktlight (here)

Passports are held by the owner, usually in a safe place on the person.

They should be, but not always are.

Posted by ktlight (here)
The plane was 30,000+ in the sky

If a rocket had hit it, there would be fragments of the plane over a very large area, probably no fire. [/B]

From what i understand that was exactly the case, as fragments were found up to 15 km from the main crash site. I would still expect fire on the crash site though.

Posted by ktlight (here)
How is it possible for pristine passports to be collected from charred bodies and/or why would there be so many passports in one piece of luggage.[/B]

I agree those passports could not have been collected from the charred bodies. The only explanation i see is some bodies or luggage must have been scattered across a larger area during the fall, away from the crash site, hence avoiding the fire. If a plane, flying at high speed, got hit at 10 km height by a rocket, the pieces should not fall into one place.

Why the assumption all those passports were in the same luggage ?


Let's not search for a false flag on every turn. Things happen by themselves too.