Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Hervé]

Dutch PM tells Ukraine to stop fighting near MH17 crash site

Published time: July 29, 2014 12:47
Edited time: July 29, 2014 17:27
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Investigators work at a the crash site of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo), some 80km east of Donetsk (AFP Photo / Bulent Kiic)

The Dutch Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, has called Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to ask government forces to stop fighting around the Malaysia Airlines crash site after experts were unable to get there for a third day running.

Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine LIVE UPDATES

"The prime minister this morning called the Ukrainian president with a request to halt hostilities around the crash site," Jean Fransman, a spokesman for the Dutch PM, told AFP. "Rutte expressed his concern about the fact it appeared the investigators may today yet again not reach the site.”

The Dutch Ministry for Security and Justice confirmed that the team of forensic experts and police officers from the Netherlands and Australia had not even attempted to try and reach the place where the Boeing 777 was downed due to heavy fighting in the vicinity. This is the third day they have been prevented from reaching the site due to the conflict.

The Australian Federal Police again deemed the situation too risky without firm commitments from opposing Ukrainian and anti-government forces which would guarantee the investigators’ safe passage to the area.

Kiev says rocket blast downed MH17, Dutch probe says info ‘premature’

Special envoy Angus Houston said there was a lot of fighting just south of the MH17 crash site and the situation remained “very fluid, very dynamic.”

“You just have to accept the fact that you don’t go into a fast-moving conflict with a mission like ours,” The Australian newspaper reported him as saying.

Monitors from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe have been trying to negotiate the investigators’ passage to the crash site from the city, which is encircled by Ukrainian troops, but the message to let them pass has not been heeded by Ukraine government forces.

Heavy fighting in E. Ukraine prevents experts from visiting MH17 crash site

Anti-government forces have repeatedly tried to escort the unarmed investigators in a convoy to the crash site, but each time have found the situation too risky to push on.

Australian PM Tony Abbott, who met with his Cabinet’s National Security Committee in Canberra on Tuesday, said it was a “confused situation on the ground.’’

“There is fighting and it’s not just the anti-government forces, it’s the Ukrainian government as well,’’ Abbott said.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in a telephone conversation with US State Secretary John Kerry on Tuesday urged Washington to influence Kiev to achieve a prompt ceasefire and to start negotiations with southeast Ukraine.

Lavrov stressed the need to return to the accord achieved at Geneva on July 17, including an end to the use of force and to promptly start an open and accountable process of constitutional reform involving all regions of Ukraine.

The two diplomats also agreed to implement the UNSC resolution which demands the provision of an international and independent investigation into the causes of the MH17 disaster and a ceasefire in the region surrounding the crash site.

Putin: West should demand Kiev obey ceasefire during plane crash probe

Poroshenko ordered a ceasefire within a radius of 40 kilometers of the crash; however, this was broken a week ago, when the Ukrainian Air Force carried out a missile strike 30 kilometers from the MH17 crash site.

The Ukrainian government hopes to be allowed to visit the Malaysian Airlines crash site in the next few days or hours, said the acting vice Prime Minister, Vladimir Groisman, who is leading a Ukrainian state commission to find out the causes of the plane crash.

“We have reason to believe that there are some bodies remaining, where the plane came down," he told journalists on Tuesday. He also added that a plan had been drawn-up, which would see the armed forces enter the territory where the MH17 plane was downed. “I hope in the next few hours or days there will be positive results,” Groisman said.

Intl. teams find ‘no violations’ by Russia along Ukrainian border

All efforts to visit the wreckage will be suspended while negotiations continue to secure safe access to the site.

“The mission will again attempt to enter the crash site when suitable arrangements are in place to provide an appropriately secure area for officers to begin the search for the remains and belongings of victims,” the investigation team added, AFP reported.

There is clear frustration on behalf of the Australians and Dutch, who are desperate to get to the site as soon as possible.

Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop, speaking before holding more talks with the Ukrainian government in Kiev, said investigators remained undeterred and would continue to seek access to the site until the job of retrieving bodies and carrying out a thorough investigation was completed.

“We are assessing the situation, day by day, hour by hour, and won’t take any unacceptable risks,” she added.

Air Chief Marshal Houston added: “As soon as a window of opportunity opens we are going to go in there and get out quickly again, hopefully in a matter of two to three weeks.’’

There are still human remains and important forensic information to be retrieved from the area where the Boeing 777 was brought down 11 days ago with the loss of 298 people. 282 bodies have already been found, while on Monday, the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic stated that they are still looking for 16 bodies, which have not been recovered following the accident.

[Hervé]

Australia's Priority to Access MH17 Crash Site, Not Sanctions Against Russia – Abbott

Topic: Malaysia Airlines Boeing Crashes in Ukraine

13:47 30/07/2014

Crash site of Malaysian Boeing 777 in Ukraine© RIA Novosti. Andrei Stenin

MOSCOW, July 30 (RIA Novosti) – Australia’s number one priority is getting access to the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine, rather than imposing further sanctions on Russia, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said Wednesday as quoted by The Star.

"I am not saying that we might not, at some point in the future, move further," Abbott said. "But at the moment our focus is not on sanctions, our focus is on bringing home our dead as quickly as we humanly can."

Australia has not stopped attempting to gain access to the Boeing crash site, the prime minister stressed.

"If it doesn't happen today we will try again tomorrow, if it doesn't happen tomorrow we will try again the next day," Abbott said.

On Tuesday, a group consisting of Dutch and Australian specialists for the third time failed to reach the MH17 crash site near the city of Torez due to ongoing fighting in the region. Tony Abbot expressed concern over the armed conflict around the crash site, adding that “it’s not just the separatists, it’s the Ukrainian government as well.”

A total of 298 people, including 193 Dutch citizens and 27 Australians, died on July 17 as a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed in Donetsk Region of Ukraine.

Kiev authorities and independence supporters have been trading blame for the downing of the plane, with independence supporters insisting they lacked the equipment to shoot down a target flying at an altitude of nearly 33,000 feet.

[...]

Full article: http://en.ria.ru/news/20140730/19147...Sanctions.html

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• Russia's UN Envoy Slams Ukraine Military Action Near MH17 Crash Site
• Russia Ready to Discuss Police Mission to MH17 Crash Site in Eastern Ukraine
• Dutch Prime Minister Urges Kiev to Stop Fighting Near MH17 Crash Site
• MH17 Downing in Eastern Ukraine May Amount to War Crime - UN

[Hervé]

MH-17: Beware of the «Chameleon»

21.07.2014 | 00:00
Wayne MADSEN
Strategic-Culture.org

The 10-day NATO exercise code named «BREEZE 2014» has ended in Black Sea. The exercise, which included the use of electronic warfare and electronic intelligence aircraft such as the Boeing EA-18G Growler and the Boeing E3 Sentry Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), coincided with the shoot-down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 in eastern Ukraine, some 40 miles from the Russian border. NATO ships and aircraft had the Donetsk and Luhansk regions under total radar and electronic surveillance.

MH-17 was shot down over a region where Russian-speaking separatist forces have been battling against the alliance of the Ukrainian armed forces and a private mercenary force answerable to a Ukrainian-Jewish billionaire oligarch.

The U.S. Army has revealed that the 10-day exercise involved «commercial traffic monitoring». Because of the sophistication of the electronic warfare and intelligence used during SEA BREEZE, it can be assumed that commercial traffic monitoring included monitoring the track of MH-17.

Past NATO-Ukraine exercises in Crimea were called «SEA BREEZE». This year's annual SEA BREEZE exercise with Ukraine, approved by the rump Ukrainian Parliament, is clouded in mystery with the Pentagon saying it was only «in the planning stage and we can't announce dates yet». However, 200 U.S. Army personnel normally assigned to bases in Germany were in Ukraine during the time of the MH-17 fly-over. They were participating in NATO exercise RAPID TRIDENT II. Ukraine's Ministry of Defense led the exercise.

BREEZE included the AEGIS-class guided missile cruiser USS Vela Gulf. AEGIS cruisers' AN/SPY 1 radar has the ability to track all aircraft over a large region. For example, the AEGIS test center in Moorestown, New Jersey, was able to see the Boeing 747 TWA Flight 800 when it disappeared from radar screens in 1996 near East Moriches Bay, Long Island. According to Lockheed Martin personnel who operated the AEGIS test center in New Jersey, the Navy ordered the SPY 1 radar turned off for «maintenance» shortly before the downing of TWA 800.

From the Black Sea, the Vela Gulf was able to track Malaysian Airlines 17 over the Black Sea and any missiles fired at the plane. U.S. AWACS electronic intelligence (ELINT) aircraft were also flying over the Black Sea region at the time of the MH-17 flyover of Ukraine. Growler aircraft have the capability to jam radar systems in all surface-to-air threats.

The announcement of U.S. BREEZE and RAPID TRIDENT II military maneuvers came on May 21, 2014, and were announced on the website operated by Vice President Joe Biden's office. Biden's son, Hunter Biden, is a newly-named director of the Ukrainian natural gas and oil company Burisma Holdings, Ltd., owned by Ihor Kolomoisky, the Ukrainian-Israeli mafia oligarch, whose is known as the «Chameleon». Kolomoisky has raised his own mercenary army, complete with the BUK missiles allegedly used in the shootdown of MH-17. Kolomoisky, the Governor of Dnipropetrovsk oblast in eastern Ukraine, has threatened terrorist attacks against Russian-speaking officials in eastern Ukraine, including assassinations.

Burisma is a typical RUIM [Russian - Ukrainian - Israeli - Mafia] operation, with subsidiaries in such tax havens as Cyprus and the British Virgin Islands. It is part of Kolomoisky's large umbrella corporation called Privat Group.

Kolomoisky, estimated to be the second-richest person in Ukraine, also has strong connections inside Kiev's Borispol International Airport, where it has been reported that Ukrainian Interior Ministry troops stormed the air traffic control tower shortly before MH-17 was shot down. A Spanish air traffic controller, who possessed knowledge of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry's involvement in the shootdown of MH-17, reportedly had his life threatened by people he described as «Maidan» troops, a reference to the Maidan Square uprising that toppled the Ukrainian government earlier this year. The Spanish controller, identified only as «Carlos,» understood that the shoot-down of MH-17 was carried out by supporters of former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko and Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. Kolomoisky is a political ally of Tymoshenko and Avakov.

Kolomoisky, until 2012, owned Aerosvit Airlines, which used Borispol as a hub, and Donbassaero, which was based out of Donetsk Airport. Aerosvit leased all of its planes, including a Boeing 767, from Boeing Capital. After filing for bankruptcy, Aerosvit and Donbassaero ceased flying in April 2013. Among other Kolomoisky airlines, Skyways Express, based out of Stockholm Arland Airport; City Express, based at Gothenburg, Sweden Airport; and Cimber Sterling, based out of Sønderborg and Copenhagen Kastrup Airports in Denmark, all filed for bankruptcy in 2012. Kolomoisky continues to be active in commercial aviation. His Private Group owns Dniproavia, which is based at Dnipropetrovsk Airport. Kolomoisky’s aviation and Israeli security contacts gives him carte blanche access to secure airport facilities in Europe and around the world.

Kolomoisky's forces are armed with advanced weaponry, obtained both from Ukrainian weapons inventories and from purchases on the black market. Kolomoisky's forces reportedly possess the BUK surface-to-air missile system said to have been used to shoot down MH-17. Kolomoisky's forces, comprising Ukrainian regular military personnel; neo-Nazi units from west Ukraine, and foreign mercenaries, including Georgians, Romanians, and white supremacists from Sweden and Germany; and ex-Israel Defense Force Blue Helmet commandos, are mainly separated into four battalions: the Azov Battalion; the Aidar Battalion, the Donbass Battalion; and the 2,000-strong Dniepr-1 (or Dnipro-1) Battalion, which was responsible for the deadly May 1 fire-bombing of the trade union building in Odessa and the burning alive of people trapped inside the Mariupol Police Station on May 9. Dnipro-1 also maintains a 20,000-member reserve force.

At the heart of Kolomoisky's Army is a Nazi «Brownshirt»-style force of ardent Kolomoisky loyalists who have used guns, iron bars, and batons to seize control of factories and offices in Ukraine that Kolomoisky has expropriated from so-called «separatist» sympathizers.

[...]

A Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, the same type that was used by MH-17 and the still-missing Malaysian Airlines flight 370, which disappeared on March 8 while en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, is stored in a hangar at Ben Gurion International Airport in Tel Aviv. The Boeing 777 in Israel, with serial number 28416, Malaysia registration tail numb 9M-MRI, was sold to GA Telesis, LLC of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, on October 21, 2013. The Boeing 777 was re-registered with the United States tail number N105GT and first stored at Tarbes Lourdes Pyrenees airport and on November 4, 2013, was transferred to Tel Aviv, where it was last spotted in a hangar.

[...]

The presence of a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 in Tel Aviv, the mysterious disappearance of a second Malaysian Boeing 777 on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, and the attack on yet a third Amsterdam-to-Kuala Lumpur Malaysian Boeing 777 over eastern Ukraine may be more than coincidental. Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport is a center for Israeli Mossad activity in Western Europe. Israeli-owned ICTS controls the security at Schiphol for passengers and cargo. It was ICTS that permitted Nigerian national Umar Farouk Abdulmutallah to slip past Schiphol’s normally stringent security on Christmas 2009 and board a Northwest Airlines Airbus bound for Detroit. While approaching Detroit, Abdulmutallah, who was permitted to board by ICTS in Amsterdam without a passport or U.S. visa, tried to detonate explosive materials sewn into his underpants.

The seizure of the air traffic control center at Borispol by allies of Kolomoisky shortly before the shooting down of MH-17 and Kolomoisky’s strong links to Israel, which benefited immensely from the downing of MH-17 because it drew the attention of the world’s media away from its ground invasion of Gaza, which began just as initial reports about the fate of MH-17 were being transmitted, may be the real story behind the loss of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 and the horrible deaths of its 298 passengers and crew.

[cursichella1]

Posted by linksplatinum (here)
(Check one) ______ model number ________ one specific plane
Actually neither one of these. 9M-MRC, 9M-MRD, and 9M-MRO are all registration numbers...
But spin or not, these analyses make sense. The US State Dept has now shifted its position from ‘Russian atrocity’ to ‘tragic accident’. The above opinions suggest that neither are true: they suggest strongly that the Ukrainian air force took out MH17.

Thank you, Linksplatinum, for taking the time to clarify all of this! Kind of a monumental task!

The planes' i.d.'s and possibilities make much more sense now, but then now so does the scenario in the investmentwatchblog that you posted...oiiiii.

[Cidersomerset]

If you watched the excellent one season series Rubicon
it is all about the job of government 'Analysts'.....


'The US government has a pattern of making these claim'...


Good points in this interview the former analyst is saying
the administration is not telling the truth on many of these
operations from Iraq to Syria and more often than not they
are lying for their own agendas......

Which is what we've been saying.



US intelligence officers think evidence on MH17 downing not adequate

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Jb4iHw2WzfE

Published on 30 Jul 2014


A group of former US intelligence officers are calling on President Barack Obama to release
more evidence on the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. Believing the US has not yet
provided hard evidence to back up its claims of separatist and Russian involvement in the
tragedy, the officers signed an open letter to the president asking for answers. RT’s Manila
Chan speaks with one of the signatories, former CIA analyst Larry Johnson, to find out more.

[Cidersomerset]

Here we go over the last couple of years the military budget
has been cut in the UK, to the anger of the hawks who are
always paranoid. I have been wondering when they can use a
flash point, to start lobbying for more Tanks and bombs.....







31 July 2014 Last updated at 01:52

Nato 'unprepared' for Russia threat, say MPs



Pro-Russian militants sit on a tank in Donetsk,
eastern Ukraine Pro-Russian militants in Ukraine. The MPs warned about the use of irregular militias.


Nato is poorly prepared for an attack on a member state from Russia, an influential group of MPs has warned.

The Commons Defence Committee said the recent Ukraine conflict showed "serious deficiencies"
in Nato's preparedness to counter threats - and "radical reform" was needed.

The MPs said the risk of a conventional assault remained low, - but warned over methods such as
cyber-attacks and the use of irregular militias.

Nato said it would study the findings.

The committee called for changes including:

Establishing a continuous presence of Nato troops and military equipment in "vulnerable"
Baltic states, including Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania

Adding unconventional threats such as irregular militia and cyber-attacks to Nato's Article
5 commitment for all members to come to the aid of a member which is attacked
"Dramatic" improvements to existing rapid reaction forces.
Large-scale exercises involving military and political leaders from all Nato states

The MPs also warned Nato "may not have the collective political will to take concerted
action to deter attack".

And they said public opinion may not support the use of military force to honour Article 5
commitments in a confrontation with Russia.

"Nato is currently not well-prepared for a Russian threat against a Nato member state,"
the report said.

"A Russian unconventional attack, using asymmetric tactics - the latest term for this is
'ambiguous warfare' - designed to slip below Nato's response threshold, would be
particularly difficult to counter."

'Too complacent'

Tory MP Rory Stewart, who was elected chairman of the committee in May, said: "The risk
of attack by Russia on a Nato member state, whilst still small, is significant. We are not
convinced that Nato is ready for this threat.

"Nato has been too complacent about the threat from Russia, and it is not well-prepared.

"Even worse, the nature of Russian tactics is changing fast - including cyber-attacks,
information warfare, and the backing of irregular 'separatist groups', combining armed
civilians with Russian Special Forces operating without insignia," said Mr Stewart, a
former soldier and diplomat who has worked in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq.

"We have already seen how these tactics have been deployed by Russia and its proxies
in Ukraine to destabilise a Nato partner state, annex part of its territory and paralyse its
ability to respond."




Typhoon jet Typhoon jets have already taken part in exercises in eastern Europe


The report said that while Nato had not seen Russia as a territorial threat for 20 years,
recent events meant it was "forced to do so".

"Events in Ukraine this year, following on from the cyber attack on Estonia in 2007 and
the invasion of Georgia by Russia in 2008, are a 'wake-up call' for Nato", it read.

"They have revealed alarming deficiencies in the state of Nato preparedness, which will
be tough to fix."

The committee also called on the government to show leadership when it hosts a Nato
summit in Wales in September. The report added: "The UK government should take the
lead in ensuring that the Nato summit addresses these threats in the most concrete and
systematic fashion."

'Adapt to change'

Nato spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said: "We have not seen the report by the UK Defence
Select Committee but we'll study it carefully once it's published.

"As early as March, the Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called Russia's
military actions in and around Ukraine a wake-up call for the alliance and for the wider
international community.

"He has also made clear that Nato must adapt to a changed security environment and that
the Wales Summit in September will be an important milestone in that process.

"Nato has already taken measures to reinforce collective defence, especially for our eastern
allies, with more planes in the air, more ships at sea, and more exercises on the ground.

"All 28 allies are contributing, and the United Kingdom is playing an important role in policing
Baltic airspace and planned exercises in Poland."

The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which was formed in 1949, is predicated upon a series
of collective security guarantees between its members.

The alliance has expanded widely in the past 15 years, admitting states that border Russia and
three - Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia - which were once part of the Soviet Union.

'Future threats'

Earlier this week, it emerged that the UK is to send a "full battle group" of 1,350 military
personnel to take part in Nato manoeuvres in Poland to support allies in eastern Europe.

It is the UK's largest such commitment to the region since 2008.

Labour said the report underlined Nato's position as the "cornerstone" of UK defence policy
and the "sole organisation for collective defence".

"The government must demonstrate UK leadership on the international stage at the upcoming
Wales summit," said shadow defence secretary Vernon Coaker.

"Recalibrating Nato as a military and political alliance to deter future threats must be a priority
for this government which has failed under David Cameron to think strategically about future
UK defence capabilities."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28577904

[Cidersomerset]

The Elite, the ‘Great Game’ and World War III

new Thursday 31st July 2014 at 06:34 By david-icke








‘The control of the US, and of global politics, by the wealthiest families of the planet
is exercised in a powerful, profound and clandestine manner. This control began in
Europe and has a continuity that can be traced back to the time when the bankers
discovered it was more profitable to give loans to governments than to needy
individuals.

These banking families and their subservient beneficiaries have come to own most
major businesses over the two centuries during which they have secretly and
increasingly organised themselves as controllers of governments worldwide and as
arbiters of war and peace.

Unless we understand this we will be unable to understand the real reasons for the
two world wars and the impending Third World War, a war that is almost certain to
begin as a consequence of the US attempt to seize and control Central Asia. The
only way out is for the US to back off – something the people of the US and the
world want, but the elite does not.’


The US is a country controlled through the privately owned Federal Reserve, which
in turn is controlled by the handful of banking families that established it by
deception in the first place.

In his interesting book The Secret Team, Col. Fletcher Prouty, briefing officer of the
US President from 1955-63, narrates a remarkable incident in which Winston
Churchill made a most revealing utterance during World War II:


“On this particular night there had been a heavy raid on Rotterdam. He sat there,
meditating, and then, as if to himself, he said, ‘Unrestricted submarine warfare,
unrestricted air bombing – this is total war.’ He continued sitting there, gazing at a
large map, and then said, ‘Time and the Ocean and some guiding star and High
Cabal have made us what we are’.”

Prouty further states:


“This was a most memorable scene and a revelation of reality that is infrequent, at
best. If for the great Winston Churchill, there is a ‘High Cabal’ that has made us
what we are, our definition is complete. Who could know better than Churchill
himself during the darkest days of World War II, that there exists, beyond doubt,
an international High Cabal? This was true then. It is true today, especially in these
times of the One World Order. This all-powerful group has remained superior
because it had learned the value of anonymity.” This “High Cabal” is the “One
World Cabal” of today, also called the elite by various writers.

The High Cabal and What They Control

The elite owns the media, banks, defence and oil industry. In his book Who’s Who
of the Elite Robert Gaylon Ross Sr. states: “It is my opinion that they own the US
military, NATO, the Secret Service, the CIA, the Supreme Court, and many of the
lower courts. They appear to control, either directly or indirectly, most of the state,
county, and local law enforcement agencies.”

The elite is intent on conquering the world through the use of the abilities of the
people of the United States. It was as far back as 1774 that Amschel Mayer
Rothschild stated at a gathering of the twelve richest men of Prussia in
Frankfurt: “Wars should be directed so that the nations on both sides should be
further in our debt.” He further enunciated at the same meeting: “Panics and
financial depressions would ultimately result in World Government, a new order of
one world government.”

The elite owns numerous “think tanks” that work for expanding, consolidating and
perpetuating its hold on the globe. The Royal Institute of International Affairs
(RIIA), the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral
Commission, and many other similar organisations are all funded by the elite and
work for it. These think tanks publish journals, such as Foreign Affairs, in which
these imperialist and anti-mankind ideas are edified as publications, and then, if
need be, expanded in the form of books that are given wide publicity.

Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger et al, as well as the neo-con “thinkers,”
owe their positions and good living standards to the largesse of the elite. This is an
important point that must be kept in full view at all times. These thinkers and
writers are on the payroll of the elite and work for them. In case someone has any
doubts about such a statement, it might help to read the following quotes from
Professor Peter Dale Scott’s comprehensively researched book The Road to 9/11 –
Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America (University of California Press, 2007):


…Bundy’s Harvard protégé Kissinger was named to be national security adviser
after having chaired an important “study group” at the Council on Foreign
Relations. As a former assistant to Nelson Rockefeller, Kissinger had been paid by
Rockefeller to write a book on limited warfare for the CFR. He had also campaigned
hard in Rockefeller’s losing campaign for the Presidential nomination in 1968. Thus
Rockefeller and the CFR might have been excluded from control of the Republican
Party, but not from the Republican White House. (Page 22)

The following quote from page 38 of the book is also very revealing:


The Kissinger-Rockefeller relationship was complex and certainly intense. As
investigative reporter Jim Hougan wrote: “Kissinger, married to a former
Rockefeller aide, owner of a Georgetown mansion whose purchase was enabled
only by Rockefeller gifts and loans, was always a protégé of his patron Nelson
Rockefeller, even when he wasn’t directly employed by him.”

Professor Scott adds:


Nixon’s and Kissinger’s arrival in the White House in 1969 coincided with David
Rockefeller’s becoming CEO of Chase Manhattan Bank. The Nixon-Kissinger foreign
policy of detente was highly congruous with Rockefeller’s push to internationalise
Chase Manhattan banking operations. Thus in 1973 Chase Manhattan became the
first American bank to open an office in Moscow. A few months later, thanks to an
invitation arranged by Kissinger, Rockefeller became the first US banker to talk with
Chinese Communist leaders in Beijing.

How They Manipulate Public Opinion

In addition to these strategic “think tanks” the elite has set up a chain of research
institutes devoted to manipulating public opinion in a manner the elite desires. As
pointed out by John Coleman in his eye opening book The Tavistock Institute on
Human Relations – Shaping the Moral, Spiritual, Cultural, Political and Economic
Decline of the United States of America, it was in 1913 that an institute was
established at Wellington House, London for manipulation of public opinion.
According to Coleman:


The modern science of mass manipulation was born at Wellington House London,
the lusty infant being midwifed by Lord Northcliffe and Lord Rothmere. The British
monarchy, Lord Rothschild, and the Rockefellers were responsible for funding the
venture… the purpose of those at Wellington House was to effect a change in the
opinions of British people who were adamantly opposed to war with Germany, a
formidable task that was accomplished by “opinion making” through polling. The
staff consisted of Arnold Toynbee, a future director of studies at the Royal Institute
of International Affairs (RIIA), Lord Northcliffe, and the Americans, Walter
Lippmann and Edward Bernays. Lord Northcliffe was related to the Rothschilds
through marriage.

Bernays was a nephew of Sigmund Freud, a fact never mentioned, and developed
the technique of “engineering consent.” When Sigmund Freud moved to Britain he
also, secretly, became associated with this institute through the Tavistock Institute.
According to Coleman, Bernays “pioneered the use of psychology and other social
sciences to shape and form public opinion so that the public thought such
manufactured opinions were their own.”

The Tavistock Institute has a 6 billion dollar fund and 400 subsidiary organisations
are under its control along with 3,000 think tanks, mostly in the USA. The Stanford
Research Institute, the Hoover Institute, the Aspen Institute of Colorado, and many
others, devoted to manipulation of US as well as global public opinion, are
Tavistock offshoots. This helps explain why the US public, by and large, is so
mesmerised as to be unable to see things clearly and to react.

Bilderberg researcher Daniel Estulin quotes from Mary Scobey’s book To Nurture
Humanness a statement attributed to Professor Raymond Houghton, that the CFR
has been clear for a very long time that “absolute behaviour control is imminent…
without mankind’s self realisation that a crisis is at hand.”

Also keep in mind that currently 80% of US electronic and print media is owned by
only six large corporations. This development has taken place in the past two
decades. These corporations are elite owned. It is almost impossible for anyone
who is acquainted with what is going on at the global level to watch, even for a few
minutes, the distortions, lies and fabrications, incessantly pouring out of this media,
a propaganda and brainwashing organ of the elite.

Once your picture is clear it is also easy to notice the criminal silence of the media
on crimes being perpetrated against humanity at the behest of the elite. How many
people know that the cancer rates in Fallujah, Iraq are higher than those in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki because of the use of depleted uranium, and maybe other
secret nuclear devices, by US forces? Fallujah was punished for its heroic resistance
against the American forces.

The Importance of Eurasia

Why is the US in Central Asia? In order to understand this, one has to look at the
writings of the stooges of the elite – Brzezinski, Kissinger, Samuel P Huntington,
and their likes. It is important to note that members of these elite paid think tanks
publish books as part of a strategy to give respectability to subsequent illegal,
immoral and predatory actions that are to be taken at the behest of the elite. The
views are not necessarily their own – they are the views of the think tanks. These
stooges formulate and pronounce policies and plans at the behest of their masters,
through bodies like the Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group, etc.

In his infinitely arrogant book The Grand Chessboard, published in 1997, Brzezinski
spelled out the philosophy behind the current US military eruption. He starts by
quoting the well-known views of the British geographer Sir Halford J Mackinder
(1861–1947), another worker for the elite. Mackinder was a member of
the ‘Coefficients Dining Club’ established by members of the Fabian Society in
1902. The continuity of the policies of the elite is indicated by the fact Brzezinski
starts from Mackinder’s thesis first propounded in 1904:


“Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland: Who rules the Heartland
commands the World-Island: who commands the World-Island commands the
world.”

Brzezinski argues that for the first time in human history a non-Eurasian power has
become preeminent and it must hold sway over the Eurasian continent if it is to
remain the preeminent global power: “For America the chief geopolitical prize is
Eurasia… About 75 percent of the world’s people live in Eurasia… Eurasia accounts
for about 60 percent of the world’s GNP and about three fourths of the world’s
known energy resources.”

It is not just the geostrategic location of this region – it is also its wealth, “both in
its enterprises and beneath its soil,” that holds such attraction for the elite whose
greed for money, and lust for power, remain insatiable, as if there was a sickness
afflicting it.

Brzezinski writes:


“But it is on the globe’s most important playing field – Eurasia – that a potential
rival to America might at some point arise. This focusing on the key players and
properly assessing the terrain has to be a point of departure for the formulation of
American geostrategy for the long-term management of America’s Eurasian
geopolitical interests.”

These lines were published in 1997. Millions of people have died in the past two
decades and millions have been rendered homeless in this region but it remains
a “playing” field for Brzezinski and his likes! In his book Brzezinski has drawn two
very interesting maps – one of these has the caption The Global Zone of Percolating
Violence (page 53) and the other (page 124) is captioned The Eurasian Balkans.
The first of these encircles a region which includes the following countries: Sudan,
Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, all Central Asian states, Afghanistan,
Pakistan and parts of Russia as well as India. The second one has two circles, an
inner circle and a wider circle – the outer circle encloses the same countries as in
the first map but the inner circle covers Iran, Afghanistan, eastern Turkey and the
former Soviet Republics in Central Asia.

“This huge region, torn by volatile hatreds and surrounded by competing powerful
neighbours, is likely to be a major battlefield…” writes Brzezinski.

He further writes:


“A possible challenge to American primacy from Islamic fundamentalism could be
part of the problem of this unstable region.”

These lines were written at a time when this kind of fundamentalism was not a
problem – subsequently the US manipulated things and chose to make it one by its
provocative and deceptive tactics. According to its strategic thinkers, the US might
face a serious challenge from a coalition of China, Russia and Iran and must do
whatever it can to prevent such a coalition from forming.

For Brzezinski, “terrorism” – a Tavistock-type concept – is just a well planned and
well thought out strategy, a lie and a deception, to provide cover for a military
presence in the Central Eurasian region and elsewhere. It is being used to keep the
US public in a state of fear, to keep Russia in a state of insecurity about further
breakup (the US has trained and supported Chechen fighters, “terrorists,”
throughout) and to justify presence of US troops in and around Central Asia.

The Concocted War on Terrorism

Terrorism provides justification for transforming the United States into a police
state. According to the Washington Post of 20 & 21 December 2010, the US now
has 4,058 anti-terrorism organisations! These are certainly not meant for those so-
called terrorists who operate in Central Asia – the number far exceeds the number
of so-called terrorists in the entire world. Unbridled domestic spying by US agencies
is now a fact of life and the US public, as always, has accepted this because of the
collusion of media and Tavistock type institutes owned by the elite.

The US historian Howard Zinn puts it very well: “The so-called war on terrorism is
not only a war against innocent people in other countries, but also a war on the
people of the United States: a war on our liberties, a war on our standard of living.
The wealth of the country is being stolen from the people and handed over to the
superrich. The lives of our young are being stolen. And the thieves are in the White
House.” Actually the thieves control the White House and have been doing so for a
very long time.

In his outstanding book Crossing the Rubicon, Michael Ruppert points out that
much of the violence in the Central Asian region as well as in Pakistan, which has
been encircled in two maps in Brzezinski’s book, was “initiated by the US
proxies.” “Given that these maps were published a full four years before the first
plane hit the World Trade Centre, they would fall in a category of evidence I
learned about at LAPD [Los Angeles Police Department]. We called them ‘clues’.”
This means that the eruption of US militarism after 9/11, and the event itself, were
part of a pre-planned and coherent strategy of global domination in which the
people of the US were also “conquered” through totalitarian legislation carried out
in the wake of 9/11.

As Brzezinski puts it:


America is too democratic at home to be autocratic abroad. This limits the use of
America’s power, especially its capacity for military intimidation. Never before has a
popular democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is
not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat
or challenge to the public’s sense of domestic well-being… The economic self-denial
(that is, defence spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties even among
professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts.
Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilisation.

Certainly post 9/11 legislation, the extraordinary expansion of agencies and
surveillance of the US public is a cause of great satisfaction for the elite – the US
can hardly be called a democracy now. As reported by the Washington Post, the
National Security Agency intercepts over 1.7 billion emails, phone calls and other
communications every day and stores them. No wonder Bush called 9/11 “a great
opportunity” and Rumsfeld saw it analogous to World War II to “refashion the
world.”

In order to achieve the objectives of the elite, the US destroyed Yugoslavia while
Russia stood by mesmerised and impotent, carried out regime changes in Central
Asia, set up military bases in East Europe and Central Asia, and staged highly
provocative military exercises testing Russia’s and China’s will. It set up a military
base in Kyrgyzstan that has a 500 mile or so border with China. When the Chinese
protested recent naval exercises with South Korea were too close to Chinese
territory, a US spokesman responded: “Those determinations are made by us, and
us alone… Where we exercise, when we exercise, with whom and how, with what
assets and so forth are determinations that are made by the United States Navy, by
the Department of Defence, by the United States government.” As journalist Rick
Rozoff notes: “There is no way such confrontational, arrogant and vulgar language
was not understood at its proper value in Beijing.”

The US has acquired bases in Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, and the Czech Republic –
and set up the largest military base ever built in the region, Camp Bondsteel, in
Kosovo. According to a report in the Russian Kommersant newspaper on 3 March
2011, a four-phase plan for deployment of a US missile system in Europe is to be
fully implemented by the end of 2020. The US is also busy setting up bilateral
military ties in Russia’s backyard with Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan,
Turkmenistan and is pursuing the goal of a “Greater Central Asia” from Afghanistan
right up to the Middle East, a great corridor from where the oil, gas, and great
mineral wealth of this region will flow to the coffers of the US elite, at bloody
expense to the local people.

As remarked by the Indian career diplomat M.K. Bhadrakumar: “The time is not far
off before they begin to sense that ‘the war on terror’ is providing a convenient
rubric under which the US is incrementally securing for itself a permanent abode in
the highlands of Hindu Kush, the Pamirs, Central Asian steppes and the Caucasus
that form the strategic hub overlooking Russia, China, India and Iran.” The scene
for a great war involving the great powers of the time – US, Russia and China – is
now set, by design of the elite. It is just a matter of time.

Time and again the US elite has taken its good people into great wars through
documented and proven deceptions – the sinking of the Lusitania during World War
I, Pearl Harbour in World War II, and so on. The elite considers us “human
garbage” – a term first used by the French in Indo-China. It is also generating a
good deal of “human garbage” in the US. A World Bank report points out that in
2005, 28 million Americans were “insecure” – in 2007 the number had risen to 46
million! One in every five Americans is faced with the possibility of
becoming “destitute” – 38 million people receive food coupons!

Michael Ruppert laments:


My country is dead. Its people have surrendered to tyranny and in so doing, they
have become tyranny’s primary support group; its base; its defender. Every day
they offer their endorsement of tyranny by banking in its banks and spending their
borrowed money with the corporations that run it. The great Neocon strategy of
George H.W. Bush has triumphed. Convince the America people that they can’t live
without the ‘good things’, then sit back and watch as they endorse the
progressively more outrageous crimes you commit as you throw them bones with
ever less meat on them. All the while lock them into debt. Destroy the middle class,
the only political base that need be feared. Make them accept, because of their
shared guilt, ever-more repressive police state measures. Do whatever you want.

A global economic system erected on inhuman and predatory values, where a few
possess more wealth than the billions of hungry put together, will end, but the end
will be painful and bloody. It is a system in which the elite thrives on war and
widespread human misery, on death and destruction by design. As Einstein said, “I
do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they
will use in the Fourth – sticks and stones!”

Prof. Mujahid Kamran is Vice Chancellor, University of the Punjab, Lahore, Pakistan,
and his book The Grand Deception – Corporate America and Perpetual War has just
been published (April 2011) by Sang e Meel Publications, Lahore, Pakistan.


Read more: The Elite, the ‘Great Game’ and World War III






http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-eli...-war-iii/25160

[Observer1964]

CNN publishes photo that proves Putin shot down plane in Ukraine
#mh17 #pentagon #Satellite #blameputin



(#BlamePutin is an increasing trend by people who are mocking the west as they are blaming everything on him. #Russia #MH17 #Ukraine)

[Hervé]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
[...]

How They Manipulate Public Opinion

[...]

… the purpose of those at Wellington House was to effect a change in the opinions of British people who were adamantly opposed to war with Germany, a formidable task that was accomplished by “opinion making” through polling. The staff consisted of Arnold Toynbee, a future director of studies at the Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA), Lord Northcliffe, and the Americans, Walter Lippmann and Edward Bernays. Lord Northcliffe was related to the Rothschilds through marriage.

Bernays was a nephew of Sigmund Freud, a fact never mentioned, and developed the technique of “engineering consent.” When Sigmund Freud moved to Britain he also, secretly, became associated with this institute through the Tavistock Institute.

According to Coleman, Bernays “pioneered the use of psychology and other social sciences to shape and form public opinion so that the public thought such manufactured opinions were their own.”

The Tavistock Institute has a 6 billion dollar fund and 400 subsidiary organisations are under its control along with 3,000 think tanks, mostly in the USA. The Stanford Research Institute, the Hoover Institute, the Aspen Institute of Colorado, and many others, devoted to manipulation of US as well as global public opinion, are Tavistock offshoots. This helps explain why the US public, by and large, is so mesmerised as to be unable to see things clearly and to react.

[...]

See this post (<---)

[Hervé]

Interesting puzzle pieces:

Map of a Tragedy: How MH17 Came Apart Over Ukraine

Renée Rigdon/The Wall Street Journal

Hrabove

DigitalGlobe via Reuters, annotations by The Wall Street Journal

Rozsypne

Google, annotations by The Wall Street Journal

Petropavlivka

Google, annotations by The Wall Street Journal

So... upper part of cockpit in "Petropavlivka":

(12) "Flight-deck window cut-out" Paul Sonne/The Wall Street Journal

... and:

(18) "Upper fuselage Skin" Paul Sonne/The Wall Street Journal

... but, lower part of cockpit in "Rozsypne":

(9) "Cockpit and lower nose" Rob Stothard/Getty Images

I've been looking and only the upper parts of the cockpit show some "shrapnel" evidence... none on the lower parts...

That would rule out the 30 mm anti-tank rounds...

Then, I am not sure how "proximity-detonated" rockets work, but if fired from ground, I would expect the lower belly portion of that plane to have been affected... right?

So, one wonders what's left that could have dismantled that plane at high altitude to bring it down...

PS: Looking at the Hrabove debris field, it seems the pieces were falling northward...

PPS: Damn article! they keep updating it!

[Billy]

From Peter Haisenko an expert in aviation who closely looked at the images of the wreckage that are circulating on the Internet.


http://www.anderweltonline.com/wisse...alaysian-mh17/




Shocking Analysis of the ‘Shooting Down’ of Malaysian MH17

Juli 30, 2014
Peter Haisenko in Cockpit of Condor DC 10

By Peter Haisenko Zur deutschen Version bitte hier anklicken

The tragedy of Malaysian MH 017 continues to elude any light of clarity being cast over it. The flight recorders are in England and are evaluated. What can come of it? Maybe more than you would assume. Especially the voice recorder will be interesting when you look at the picture of a cockpit fragment. As an expert in aviation I closely looked at the images of the wreckage that are circulating on the Internet.

First, I was amazed at how few photos can be found from the wreckage with Google. All are in low resolution, except one: The fragment of the cockpit below the window on the pilots side. This image, however, is shocking. In Washington, you can now hear views expresssed of a “potentially tragic error / accident” regarding MH 017. Given this particular cockpit image it does not surprise me at all.

Entry and exit impact holes of projectiles in the cockpit area
Source for all photos: Internet

I recommend to click on the little picture to the right.
Cockpit-MH017.pdf



You can download this photo as a PDF in good resolution. This is necessary, because that will allow you understand what I am describing here. The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likeley that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefull exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.

In sifting through the available images one thing stands out: All wreckage of the sections behind the cockpit are largely intact, except for the fact that only fragments of the aircraft remained . Only the cockpit part shows these peculiar marks of destruction. This leaves the examiner with an important clue. This aircraft was not hit by a missile in the central portion. The destruction is limited to the cockpit area. Now you have to factor in that this part is constructed of specially reinforced material. This is on account of the nose of any aircraft having to withstand the impact of a large bird at high speeds. You can see in the photo, that in this area significantly stronger aluminum alloys were being installed than in the remainder of the outer skin of the fuselage. One remembers the crash of Pan Am over Lockerbie. It was a large segment of the cockpit that due to the special architecture survived the crash in one piece. In the case of flight MH 017 it becomes abundantly clear that there also an explosion took place inside the aircraft.

Tank destroying mix of amunititon
Bullet holes in the outer skin

So what could have happened? Russia recently published radar recordings, that confirm at least one Ukrainian SU 25 in close proximity to MH 017. This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller ‘Carlos’ that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment!

Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator). After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.

What “mistake” was actually being committed – and by whom?
Graze on the wing

Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon. This explains a coherent scenario. The largely intact fragments of the rear sections broke in mid air at the weaker points of contstruction most likely under extreme internal air pressure. The images of the widely scattered field of debris and the brutally damaged segment of cockpit fit like hand in glove.

Furthermore, a wing segment shows traces of a grazing shot, which in direct extension leads to the cockpit. Interestingly, I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well known smoking ruins.

read more.

[Operator]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
...
Then, I am not sure how "proximity-detonated" rockets work, but if fired from ground, I would expect the lower belly portion of that plane to have been affected... right?
...

I am not an aviation expert but know a little bit more about torpedoes.

In the navy world they learned that it is more effective not to 'hit' a ship with a torpedo
but to explode one beneath the hull of a ship.
It will rapidly sink in a matter of a few minutes, it's cruel this way because there will be
far less survivors.

I guess something similar may apply to planes ...

P.S. It will sink faster because it breaks in 2 halves ...

[Billy]

quote from my above post.

This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller ‘Carlos’ that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment!

Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator). After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.

I think this guy has something here. The cockpit section does have entrance and exit holes around 30mm in diameter.

what do others think.

[TargeT]

Posted by Operator (here)
In the navy world they learned that it is more effective not to 'hit' a ship with a torpedo
but to explode one beneath the hull of a ship.
It will rapidly sink in a matter of a few minutes, it's cruel this way because there will be
far less survivors.

I guess something similar may apply to planes ...

P.S. It will sink faster because it breaks in 2 halves ...

Yep, the concussive wave is the power you want & it forms best on it's own, a slight distance from the target works best, that way the reaction of the explosive is not inhibited by a solid mass (which will re-direct the blast slightly)

Here's a run down on the Sidewinder:

The Sidewinder isn't designed to go off when it actually hits the target; it's designed to go off when it gets very close to the target. The missile control system uses an ingenious optical target detector to figure out when it's within range.

The detector consists of eight laser-emitter diodes and eight light-sensor diodes arranged around the outside of the missile airframe, just behind the flight fins. When the Sidewinder is in flight, the detector is constantly emitting laser beams in a spoke pattern around the missile. If the missile gets close enough to the target, the laser beams will reflect off the aircraft body and bounce back to the sensor diodes. The control system recognizes that the missile is right next to the target and triggers the warhead.The current Sidewinder, as well as its replacement, the AIM-9X, carries the 20-pound (9-kg) WDU-17/B warhead. The WDU-17/B consists of a case assembly, a good amount of PBXN-3 high explosive, booster plates, an initiator device and nearly 200 titanium fragmentation rods. When the target detector senses the enemy aircraft, it activates the fuze mechanism, which sends an explosive charge through the initiator (a train of low-explosive material) to the booster plates. The explosive charge from the initiator ignites low-explosive material in the booster plate channels, which ignites explosive pellets surrounding the high-explosive material. The pellets ignite the high explosive, causing it to release a huge amount of hot gas in a short amount of time.

The powerful explosive force from this expanding gas blasts the titanium rods outward, breaking them apart to form thousands of metal pieces, all zipping through the air at top speed. If the warhead goes off within range of the target, the speeding titanium fragments will break apart the enemy aircraft's fuselage. In some cases, the missile may go right up the target's tailpipe, demolishing the aircraft from the inside. The WDU-17/B is referred to as an annular blast fragmentation warhead because the explosive force carries the metal fragments outward in all directions, in an annular, or ring-shaped, pattern.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sidewinder.htm

[Hervé]

Posted by Billy (here)
[...]

... the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment!

Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator). After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.

[...]

What bugs me with that "expert" report is that he considers that those alledged 30 mm "bullets/shells" entered and exited without doing what they where supposed to do on the lower part of the cockpit found in "Rozsypne," and if his hypothsis of "shot at from both sides" is to hold any water, then the two fighter/assault jets were firing at each other... somehow.

As I mention in post # 777 (gulp!) "...at least they are looking at the right kind of pieces of evidence" in reference to Cidersomerset's linking to a similar article from that German fellow.

As I also mentioned in another post, these upper-cockpit pieces look like they have been the targets of close-range target-practice...

I gather that these two pieces of evidence will require some serious CSI investigation to sort out what's what!


PS: For close-up views of "exit" impacts," see post # 642 and post # 751

[Operator]

Posted by Billy (here)
quote from my above post.

This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller ‘Carlos’ that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment!

Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator). After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.

I think this guy has something here. The cockpit section does have entrance and exit holes around 30mm in diameter.

what do others think.

It was already mentioned and discussed before ...

Please review my post here and Amzer Zo's reaction here.

No problem, if there's something new of course ... just to prevent repetition.

[Operator]

Posted by TargeT (here)
...
Here's a run down on the Sidewinder:

The Sidewinder isn't designed to go off when it actually hits the target; it's designed to go off when it gets very close to the target. The missile control system uses an ingenious optical target detector to figure out when it's within range.

The detector consists of eight laser-emitter diodes and eight light-sensor diodes arranged around the outside of the missile airframe, just behind the flight fins. When the Sidewinder is in flight, the detector is constantly emitting laser beams in a spoke pattern around the missile. If the missile gets close enough to the target, the laser beams will reflect off the aircraft body and bounce back to the sensor diodes. The control system recognizes that the missile is right next to the target and triggers the warhead.The current Sidewinder, as well as its replacement, the AIM-9X, carries the 20-pound (9-kg) WDU-17/B warhead. The WDU-17/B consists of a case assembly, a good amount of PBXN-3 high explosive, booster plates, an initiator device and nearly 200 titanium fragmentation rods. When the target detector senses the enemy aircraft, it activates the fuze mechanism, which sends an explosive charge through the initiator (a train of low-explosive material) to the booster plates. The explosive charge from the initiator ignites low-explosive material in the booster plate channels, which ignites explosive pellets surrounding the high-explosive material. The pellets ignite the high explosive, causing it to release a huge amount of hot gas in a short amount of time.

The powerful explosive force from this expanding gas blasts the titanium rods outward, breaking them apart to form thousands of metal pieces, all zipping through the air at top speed. If the warhead goes off within range of the target, the speeding titanium fragments will break apart the enemy aircraft's fuselage. In some cases, the missile may go right up the target's tailpipe, demolishing the aircraft from the inside. The WDU-17/B is referred to as an annular blast fragmentation warhead because the explosive force carries the metal fragments outward in all directions, in an annular, or ring-shaped, pattern.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sidewinder.htm

Your answer raised my interest to dig a bit deeper. Since the debris is scattered in a wide area
miles apart it tells us that the plane must have disintegrated in mid-air. Which makes me think
of a bomb on a carefully chosen place or a scenario like the torpedo or Sidewinder (concussive
wave).

I looked for more precise answers of what happens when a plane is hit by e.g. 'normal' bullets
from a hand gun: http://science.howstuffworks.com/inn...n-on-plane.htm
It apparently can get very bad but no fuselage disintegration.

I also found this comment

...
In real life, a Boeing 737 in Hawaii had the front roof section of the First Class cabin ripped off due to a depressurization caused by some undetected cracks in the airframe at 24,000 feet. There was only one fatality, apparently sucked out of the cabin due to the rapid depressurization but the aircraft landed safely.

The aircraft would certainly not disintegrate unless there is a bomb on board.

on this website: http://www.askcaptainlim.com/-air-tr...ane-cabin.html

or what about this hole ...


It appears to me that gunfire or shrapnel alone will not cause an airliner to disintegrate in mid-air.

So next thing to look at is the warhead on the 9M38 missile. Then I found this video ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LSXMhaFntrU

From this video it becomes clear that the BUK system is pretty complicated and extensive to
work with. It's not low cost at all, not something the Russians would just give away to 'rebels'.

Complete system:

• TELAR (9A310M1)
• Loader/Launcher (9A39M1)
• SNOW DRIFT Surveillance Radar (9S18M1)
• Command and Control vehicle (9S470M1)

By the way a much heard complaint by groups that are not allowed to enter the crash site is
that the separatists are not very well organized: "The situation is different at each road block".
I think this confirms that a BUK system could never have been operated by them.

And this video also clearly demonstrates that a launch is noisy and leaves a very distinct
contrail. Such a launch could not have gone unnoticed ...

Then looking a bit deeper into the warhead ...

The original missile launched by the SA-11 is known by its designator 9M38. One missile alone is just over eighteen feet long, weighs 1,521 pounds, and contains a 154.3 pound Fragmentation-High Explosive warhead that detonates based on radar proximity fuse. With a two-stage solid rocket fuel engine and roughly fifteen seconds of burn time, the 9M38 can reach an altitude of 46,000 feet and has a range of nineteen miles. It reaches speeds of over 2,000 miles per hour (almost 3,400 feet per second!), traveling at Mach 3. Using semi-active radar homing, the missile is sent flight path corrections based on proportional navigation computations performed by the SPM while the missile is in flight, allowing it to correctly find its way to its target for a successful intercept.

http://sofrep.com/36195/one-missile-...11-gadfly-sam/

Not much details to be found except that it is based on fragmentation from a close distance. On another website
(although type of missile was not listed as 9M38) it said that the kill range was 17 meters.
So it needs to get very close to be effective.

So, I really have my doubts if it is 'a done deal' that this plane is 'shot' down by a 9M38.

[Hervé]

That's roughly what that guy said:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
FINAL – Part II: Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag Operation

Examining the Evidence July 18, 2014

Key Information in Reverse Chronological Order:

#15 – Dissecting the Fake Intercept Disseminated by SBU (Ukrainian Security Service)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

Note: Half of the Post Translated; The Remaining Half is Speculative

Complete Original of the Post (in Russian) Can Be Found at Eugene-DF LiveJournal

In the disseminated intercept, the place from which the missile was allegedly launched is clearly indicated: the checkpoint at the settlement of Chernukhino.

Pay close attention at the Alleged Map of the MH17 Catastrophe.

As you can see, the distance from the point of launch to the point of the fall is 37 kilometres. At the same time, the elevation of the plane was 10-11 kilometres. For the Russian BUK M2 this distance is, in fact, achievable (although with a very important caveat discussed below).

However, Ukraine does not, and cannot, have modern digital high-tech Anti-Aircraft systems in its arsenal. What it does have, at best, is the older version BUK M1. The system itself is not too bad, and could even fit the stated distance. Except for the caveat that was mentioned.

The thing is that most short to medium range Anti-Aircraft systems work extremely poorly in a “pursuit” mode. There are a number of reasons for this, and I do not intend to belabor the point, but you can take it as an axiom that when the launch is made in “pursuit” of the target, the maximum distance of the launch that successfully hits the target is at least half of the advertised maximum distance (in reality, it's even worse, but let’s leave aside the sad part). Accordingly, the real distance of a “pursuit” launch for BUK M1 is 16 kilometres. What’s more, the last 3 kilometres are purely “God willing” and “without guarantees.”

And, so, we have the background. Let’s see how the picture unfolds:

The launch is alleged to have been made from Chernukhino. The maximum distance of the launch is 16 kilometres. The aircraft fell between Snezhnoye and Torez. That’s 37 kilometres, which is 20 kilometres more than the maximum possible point at which the plane could have been hit. You know, even a plane with turned-off engines can’t glide like that. But the trouble is that the aircraft was not whole.

According to the pattern of the spread of fuselage fragments and bodies, the plane was ruptured practically with the first shot. Here it must be mentioned that the high-explosive/fragmentation warhead of the rocket has a mass of approximately 50 kilograms (by the way, Ukrainians have an outdated modification, which is only 40 kilograms).

Overall, that’s not too little; however, it must be understood that it detonates not when it sticks into an airplane, but when it is still at a certain, and fairly significant distance. Moreover, the main strike factor is not the blast wave, but far more significantly – the stream of fragments. These fragments are previously prepared rods (and in the earlier versions – little cubes, if I recall correctly). And yes, for a jet fighter, that, in itself, is more than sufficient.

However, here we are dealing with a huge airliner. Yes, one rocket will rip the casing, cause depressurization, and will kill a lot of passengers. But it will not break up the airliner into pieces. Given certain conditions, the pilots may even be able to land it. And, in fact, there have been precedents (to be provided in future posts). For example – the very same An-28, which is alleged to have been the first victim of a BUK system; even though it was done for, but the crew was able to successfully catapult out. Which, in some way, symbolizes. An An-28, by the way, is far smaller than a Boeing.

Nevertheless, this has relation to the next part of our analysis. For now, let’s accept as a fact the break-up of the aircraft in the air, at a significant height (which is, in essence, what was observed. Allow me to remind you: “fragments spread over a radius of 15 kilometres.” The key here is that this means the following: the aircraft (or, more precisely, the core of the aircraft) fell literally at the point where the rocket impacted it. Clarifying: as soon as the aircraft turned into a host of fragments of different mass, the separation of these fragments began due to air resistance and the difference in inertia. The densest fragment flew a further 3-6 kilometres, falling more and more steeply. The lightest – spread out and, due to gliding and air currents, fell somewhere within a 10 kilometre radius. The medium ones (primarily pieces of casing with high sail-effect and the victims’ bodies) – fell almost vertically.

In other words, the rocket caught up to the plane no closer than 25 kilometres away from Chernukhino. Which is absolutely impossible for a BUK system.

By the way, we can’t overlook the fact that, at maximum distances, BUK can be used only provided there is support from an external radar installation for location and guiding purposes. In other words, even if a rockets flies far, BUK’s mobile radar does not cover its entire distance.

Accordingly, if SBU’s video above is not fake, then, to our surprise, we discover that it was literally impossible for the aircraft to be shot down by the rebel’s BUK. By the way, what exactly this BUK was doing in Chernukhino with the Cossacks is pretty much inexplicable. It is 60 kilometres whether you go to Donetsk or to Lugansk from there, and this BUK would be unable to protect the skies over either of the key cities. Nor are there any hostilities in the area. It’s also strange for the Militia to expect enemy planes there – it’s not like the pilots are their own enemies to make such detours over the enemy’s territory, is it? Well, all right. As I already stated, let’s accept, for the moment, that the intercept is not fake.

And that is what is so strange here: SBU literally offers evidence that proves that that the Militia had no part in the shooting down of the Boeing! The fact that they blame themselves in the recording is quite understandable. Unlike the fascists, they have a conscience, which takes its toll until you are sure it was not you who did it.

Ok. But did somebody, in fact, shoot down the plane?

Of course it was shot down. And here we have another question: what if this recording is a falsification through and through? Then it had to have been prepared somehow? And then disseminated?

That’s when smoke starts to clear, and mirrors – to break.

That’s the problem with tricks.


#14 – An Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol Airport in Kiev
Original: EturboNews (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

[...]

Now, somewhere in this thread, there is a post that mentioned or linked to one of these TV series that demonstrate or debunk urban legends as depicted in Hollywood movies.

One of the thing they set to settle was to verify if a bullet shot through the fuselage would end up creating a catastrophic depressurization and rip a plane apart as Hollywood so loves to do.

They went to one of those planes grave yard and sealed old airliners fuselages, pumped pressure into them and proceeded with various experiment to check at what point the "Hollywood effect" would be created... bullet didn't do it...

It took blowing a window with explosives to rip portions of the fuselage apart... but didn't expelled dummies placed inside.

This means it would take a lucky shot to produce what happened to 9M-MRD on its MH017 flight or a well planed disposition of explosive charges, in advance, to ensure its demise at a precise spot in order to generate the prepared MSM screams at Russia.

[Operator]

What surprises me again and again ... is that, same as happened with 9/11, there must be
military experts, intelligence agencies etc. out there that can easily make the same deductions.
How come this isn't widely exposed ? Why is it so quiet ?

[sigma6]

This is more then Tonken Bay, this is a do or die, kiss our arse or take everyone down with us... last play ....

I don't know who this guy is, but I totally agree with everything is he saying 110%
Even people who don't agree with the Main Stream Media, unfortunately their minds have been muddled by it and their responses are tainted.

Political Correctness is a control technique to that impedes you from speaking your mind. Prejudice, ignorant, half baked, if you don't exercise your truth, you will not develop your ability to improve your own short falls. Perfection is not the goal improvement is...

In any event this guy must be taking "super clear thinking drugs" because I didn't know that there was anyone left who knows how to call a spade a spade any more. This should have been a UN speech.

OFFICIAL WARNING - US HAS BEEN OVER INVESTING IN MILITARY HARDWARE FOR HOW LONG? WHY DO THEY NEED MORE MILITARY HARDWARE THEN THE TOP 10 COUNTRIES ON THE PLANET COMBINED? WHY ARE THEY PLANNING A FIRST STRIKE ON THEIR #1 CREDITOR? (CHINA) AND RUSSIA?
Because they are part of a desperate half rat half human criminal cabal that goes back centuries...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NePChnsuMNs

AT 15:10 I didn't know it was only in 1983 (When Blade Runner came out) 90% of the media was controlled by 50 COMPANIES. (I heard in the late 50's it was 250 companies.) TODAY WE ALL KNOW IT IS 6 COMPANIES THAT COLLUDE WITH EACH OTHER. NOT EVEN AN OLIGARCHY!

When you look around you, it is the same old military strategy. The US taking advantage of it's surplus of printed money. Over extended military, Media Lockdown. Blowing up countries stockpiling military hardware, killing people in the name of peace, and when the other side says f*** off. They get "offended". This is the strategy and politics of the sadistic bully. It is so transparent to me... I don't understand how anyone cannot see the truth of it.

And no one is going to win this one. Except the Elites.

1) The take over the world and start their new world order. or

2) They blow up everyone elses ****, then hide in their underground palaces with free energy and stored up food and let everyone else rot. While they plan how to take it over under force in a nuclear contaminated world. Cowards who have learned to exist solely on their ability to manipulate money and politics would rather live in an infested nuclear radioactive wasteland then just admit their own fallibility, their own secret fear at having to live as equals. THAT IS THEIR GREATEST FEAR.

Check out the hidden message to (Legal Researchers) at 20:20 (Hingsight is 20/20)

Accrording to Hans Sponich (?) "NATO Now promotes itself as the Military arm of the UN itself" and is attempting to supercede and replace the UN (like it was just a another Imperialistic global money drain system to begin with) This is RIGHT OUT OF STAR WARS!!! But that's not the kicker. "...The doctrine reserves the right to intervene ANYWHERE in the world, where there is movement of large numbers of PERSONS (HELLOOO!!!) It's new "Partners across the globe" program includes Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Pakistan and Iraq, and leads the occupation of Afghanistan. And now including El Salvador and Columbia puts NATO on ALL 6 continents... " (two countries they destroyed with death squads)

This is nothing short of trying to put the entire planet under military rule.

Ukraine blew it. Maybe Russia was too selfish in sharing, maybe they didn't have enough, But the direction they were going in was and is clearly to raise the standard of living, and involving the BRICS made that obvious it was going to be a shared and therefore transparent process. The US/France/Britain screwed the whole planet and reneged on their trustee responsibility to the planet via the Secretive Satanic Jesuit/Zionist banking Cabal Federal Reserve.

Now they want to hide their dishonour and rewrite history by wiping out an entire generation of conspiracy researchers who have awoken the planet. The Cabal using the US must stop that at all cost. IT IS CLEARLY THE BIGGEST THREAT THEY HAVE FACED in the last 100 years. The US knows it, Russia knows it, Europe knows it. China knows it, Japan knows. Anyone in the know knows it. It's going to be a much needed shift of distribution of disproportionately controlled wealth, or it's going to be WAR. This plays right to Russia's honour, to their security parameter, right to their doorstep. Play the western game, you want it, your going to have to kill us to get it, cause we got these stupid Ukrainians feeding out of our hand.

Even if to some degree they are all in on it.. What difference does it make? The PTB want their death tribute... It's an economic, corporate, accounting, real world debt restructuring. They need at least a billion dead if they even hope to reboot their flawed control system. If the people don't wake up soon. This is a very real potential because is makes sense from their MODEL of economics. Even with the radio-activity.

The option is THEY STEP ASIDE. THEY LOSE CONTROL... It really is getting down to US or THEM. They are giving us no TRUE choice. Honour with death or dishonour and continue being a slave and live in ignorance, your life a lie and an illusion of falsehood.