Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Hervé]

Russian investigators reveal identity of key witness in MH17 crash

Published time: June 03, 2015 09:19
Edited time: June 03, 2015 15:15

Reuters / Maxim Zmeyev

Download video (58.12 MB)

The Russian Investigative Committee has identified a key witness to the MH17 crash in Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. He is Evgeny Agapov, an aviation armaments mechanic in the Ukrainian Air Force.

The man is currently under Russian state protection.

Screenshot from Russian Investigative Committee video

“As now there is new evidence of the reliability of the words of the witness, as well as various reports concerning the doubts of certain media outlets about the real existence of this witness, we decided to disclose [the name of the witness],”

Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said.

Screenshot from Russian Investigative Committee video

Agapov, a Ukrainian citizen, was serving as a military mechanic in the first squadron of the Ukrainian Air Force’s tactical aviation brigade.

According to Markin, the man “voluntarily crossed the state border of the Russian Federation and expressed a desire to cooperate with the Russian investigation.”

Agapov has testified that on July 17, 2014, a Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-25 jet aircraft piloted by one Captain Voloshin “set out for a military task,” Markin said.

Head of the Media Relations department of the Russian Investigative Committee Vladimir Markin (RIA Novosti / Alexander Natruskin)

The aircraft returned to the airfield with empty ammunition. To his colleagues, Voloshin said that the plane was "at the wrong time or in the wrong place,” said the Investigative Committee spokesman.

“Our jets were flying regularly,” Agapov said in his testimony. “When one returned, the pilot, Captain Voloshin, got out of the cockpit.” He added that, as Captain Voloshin walked away with the other pilots, Agapov heard him say: “That was the wrong plane.”

“In the evening we learned that a passenger Boeing was shot down that day,” the witness said.

He said that on that day, July 17, the soldiers together with Agapov were “servicing another jet, attaching its payload.”

“Nearby was Flight Control Officer Dyakin, Captain Voloshin and two other pilots. Dyakin asked Voloshin: ‘What happened with the plane?’ He said, ‘It was in the wrong place at the wrong time.’”

On Tuesday, Russian arms manufacturer Almaz-Altey announced the results of its own probe into the MH17 tragedy. They say that the crash could only have been caused by one of the missiles from BUK’s older line of defense systems, the BUK-M1. These missiles are widely deployed by a number of post-Soviet states, including Ukraine, but have been replaced by a newer model in Russia.

“If a surface-to-air missile system was used [to hit the plane], it could only have been a 9M38M1 missile of the BUK-M1 system,” Almaz-Antey said in a statement.
In the meantime, Almaz-Antey’s experts said they had not “theoretically” excluded the possibility that the Boeing was hit by another type of weapon, such as an air-to-air missile. They cautioned that that final conclusions could only be drawn after all the necessary forensic tests had been conducted by the official investigative commission.

The Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, with 298 passengers on board, crashed on July 17, 2014 in the Donetsk Region of eastern Ukraine. The Boeing was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, and the majority of its victims were Dutch citizens.

Dutch forensic experts are leading the investigation into the causes of the tragedy. However, they have so far released only a preliminary report, in which they said that the plane “broke up in mid-air due to external damage.”

Read more:
MH17 likely downed by old BUK-M1 missile system not used by Russia – manufacturer

MH17 probe looking for witnesses to back ‘Buk missile’ scenario

[Cidersomerset]

MH17 crash: Russian investigators reveal identity of 'key witness' Raw

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tLMkwsMe304

Published on 3 Jun 2015


The Russian Investigative Committee has identified a key witness to the MH17 crash in
Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. He is Evgeny Agapov, an aviation armaments mechanic in
the Ukrainian Air Force. READ MORE:

=============================================

Russian investigators reveal identity of key witness in MH17 crash

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_5tivWzfzjA

Published on 3 Jun 2015


The Russian Investigative Committee has identified a key witness to the MH17 crash in
Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. He is Evgeny Agapov, an aviation armaments mechanic in
the Ukrainian Air Force.

[Sophocles]

MH 17 Case and testimony of the main witness (eng subs):

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2hnYeD77MZo

[Cidersomerset]

Twitter Users Find Ukrainian Buk-M1 System After Kiev Denies Existence

Tuesday 9th June 2015 at 09:39 By ickonic





‘Twitter users found an announcement on the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense website detailing
the transfer of a Buk-M1 system to the Ukrainian military over a month before the MH17 disaster.
Twitter users found a June 6, 2014 announcement on the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense website
(archived copy) detailing the handover of a Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile system to Ukraine’s
military from a Kharkov repair facility.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s advisor denied on Thursday that Ukraine possessed any
Buk-M1 systems at the time of the July 17, 2014 Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash. On Tuesday,
surface-to-air missile system manufacturer Almaz-Antey presented a report which indicated
that a Buk-M1 missile, operated by the Ukrainian military, was likely responsible for the disaster.’

Read more: Twitter Users Find Ukrainian Buk-M1 System After Kiev Denies Existence


http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150607/1023057320.html

[Baby Steps]

From an imaginary Russian insider:

We had heard from some of our sources, none reliable, that a plane was to be used to attack us, either with a nuclear device on board, a dirty bomb or some kind of biological weapon. The object would be to trigger full warfare in Ukraine, as our people would have concluded that the attack originated in Ukraine. The momentum would have been unstoppable.
We suspected that MH70 was at Diego Garcia and knew that another Malaysian 777 was in Israel. These planes ‘did not exist’ so using them for an attack was relatively easy for the West to contrive.
We also knew that such a flight could have a small bomb on board, and could be used to fake a Russian shoot-down, which would likely have tipped the Ukraine conflict over the edge.
With sketchy information our planners concluded that if such a flight was identified it should be brought down if possible over Ukraine, so that the incident could be passed off in the fog of war. However it was not possible to be confident in the BUK systems we had in place , especially with multiple aircraft.
So our plan was that should the flight be identified, BUKs would be launched, but our fighters would enter Ukrainian airspace to ensure that the plane did go down as soon as possible. If the plane was escorted it was hoped that the BUKs would bring down or drive off the escorting planes.

Our plan swung into effect when MH17 appeared on our screens with two smaller signatures, probably fighter jets. The presence of escorting fighters is of course completely abnormal for a civilian flight. We informed our allies in Novorussiya that an escorted Antonov was approaching and it was to be brought down immediately. We scrambled our fighters and entered their airspace once the Ukrainian Air Force jets were gone (one shot down and one turned back). We further believed that something was very wrong as shortly after passing Kiev, the plane diverted from its normal path towards the Black Sea and Georgia, towards the war zone, and the large population centre of Volgograd just beyond there.
Unfortunately, we found no evidence of any nuclear or biological device on board, and realised that our sources had fed us mis information in order to try to drag Russia further into the conflict in the eyes of the Western propaganda machine.
We did however have the opportunity to take genetic samples from some of the bodies and have positively identified two Chinese citizens from the MH70 flight. We have a copy of the Black box recording including Pilot dialogue confirming the presence of the Sukhoi escorts, and the instruction to divert over the war zone.

Attachment 30264

http://www.globalresearch.ca/major-a...coming/5419963

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle39341.htm

[Cidersomerset]

Malaysian Pressure Forces The MH17 Investigation to UN Adjudication

By ickonic on 28th June 2015 Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror



==========================================================





Malaysian Pressure Forces The MH17 Investigation to UN Adjudication

By Eric Zuesse

Global Research, June 27, 2015



‘Malaysia, frustrated by the refusal of the official international investigation-team to
produce any clear evidence yet of whom to blame for the downing of the MH17
Malaysian airliner over the Ukrainian civil-war zone on 17 July 2014, has finally forced
the team to request the UN to investigate. They’ve forced the original four nations on
the team to accept UN adjudication of any final report.

This will enable a court-proceeding to make the ultimate determination of guilt (upon
which judgment penalties and compensation will be assessed), and this court-
determination would inevitably allow whatever party is being blamed by the five-member
official investigating team, to present its own evidence in the case, so that the court will
make the ultimate determination — the official investigating team will not be performing
that crucial judgmental function.’



Malaysia was long prohibited from even participating in this investigational team, but on 5
November 2014, a deal was finally reached with the four nations that did comprise the team
— four U.S. allies: Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, and (a suspect in possibly having downed
the MH17) Ukraine itself (though it had lost none of its citizens in the disaster) — so, the next
day, Malaysia’s New Straits Times headlined “Malaysia to join MH17 criminal probe team,” a
nd reported that, “The prime minister said the country had been invited to play a bigger role
in the recovery and investigation of the ill-fated aircraft, believed to have been downed by a
missile over eastern Ukraine on July 17.”

The Malaysian report went on then, pointedly, to note: “In July, the Dutch and Ukrainian
authorities agreed that the bulk of the operations would be carried out by the Netherlands,
with assistance from countries whose citizens were on board the flight. Malaysia had repeatedly
asked to be part of the joint investigation team, currently comprising investigators from the
Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine.” Implicitly, that phrase “Malaysia had repeatedly
asked to be part of the investigating team” said that Malaysia had consistently been refused
membership until 5 November 2014. In fact, even by late November of 2014, Malaysia
continued to be refused membership, and I headlined on November 30th, “Malaysia Becomes
Angry About Exclusion from MH17 Investigation.”

That refusal was especially outrageous because, like three of the four nations that already were
on the team, Malaysia had lost (44) citizens from the downing. But in addition, Malaysia had
lost the plane, from it. There was no excuse for the four pro-Western nations to exclude
Malaysia, and for their limiting the investigating-team to only Ukraine (a key suspect in the
downing) and three of its allies. And, between November and now, Malaysia has finally become
so fed-up with the team’s continuing refusal to act, and to declare the culprit, so that the rest
of the team finally consented to Malaysia’s demand to transfer the investigation over to the UN.

On 24 June 2015, Agence France Press, a mouthpiece for yet another Western nation (France),
bannered, “Netherlands, Malaysia push for UN tribunal for MH17 culprits,” and Thailand’s
Bangkok Post headlined this same story more honestly and directly, as “Malaysia demands UN
court for MH17 shootdown,” but carried unchanged the anti-Russian-slanted AFP text. The
anti-Russian-slanted AFP ‘news’ report said “It remains unclear, however, whether Russia
would back the creation of the special tribunal” (something which they could also have said
of the U.S., for example) and included a sub-head: “- Getting Russia on board -,” which section
had only this brief and anonymously sourced reference to Russia: “The diplomat [unidentified]
said the countries were mindful of the need to ‘avoid a Russian veto’ [as if a Russian veto would
have been likelier than an American one, etc.].” That’s propaganda for a regime, not news-reporting
for a democracy — it delivers the bias (to whip up support for war), along with its sugar-coated
pro-regime facts.

The present writer has already set forth the conclusive evidence that Ukraine downed this airliner,
and that the reason Ukraine did it — intentionally, not at all by mistake — was in order to enable the
U.S. to blame Russia for it and thus get the EU to hike economic sanctions against Russia. Adolf
Hitler’s Nazi Germany isn’t the only nation in history that has used what the intelligence trade calls
“false-flag attacks” in order to blame the nations that it itself aims to attack. The U.S. has perfected
that technique.

Russia was framed for the downing of MH17, which was a U.S. job carried out by the Ukrainian Air
Force. (The EU knows that the U.S. has a mega-criminal government, but they go along with it,
thinking that their aristocrats will get some of the loot that’s being yanked off by America’s aristocrats.
They do this though 206 of the murdered passengers were EU citizens. And Netherlands,which provided
the U.S. key assistance in the buildup to overthrowing Ukraine’s democracy, lost the most people in it,
which just goes to show on which side Dutch aristocrats stand — it’s not the Dutch public’s side.)

Finally, Malaysia is having some success in pulling this criminal investigation away from the clearly
proven criminal (Ukraine — which now is itself a U.S. client-state) and its friends.

Anyone who believes Western ‘news’ media about international affairs is simply laying his mind out to
be raped by agents of the local nation’s aristocracy. Almost everything has become propaganda now.
Honest journalism is squelched, if not strangled.

That’s why, if you’ll google the headline of this news-report, none of the major mainstream and
alternative’ ‘news’ sites will likely come up — though it has been sent to all of them.

Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of They’re Not Even Close: The
vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event
that Created Christianity, and of Feudalism, Fascism, Libertarianism and Eco

Read more: Malaysian Pressure Forces The MH17 Investigation to UN Adjudication
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysi...cation/5458696

[Cidersomerset]

The MH17 Airline Crash: Methodology of an International Cover-Up

By ickonic on 4th July 2015 Coverups, War and Terror





‘Investigative journalists’ inquiries into the facts behind the fateful crash
of Malaysia Airlines on Flight MH17 on July 17, 2014 are being stonewalled
by all of the directly and indirectly implicated parties. The discourse is
dominated by political and geopolitical positioning and scapegoating with
the aid of “partial” not independently verifiable “evidence”. Everything,
including law, suggests that all parties are interested in denying
investigative journalists access to verifiable, testable evidence.’

Read more: The MH17 Airline Crash: Methodology of an International Cover-Up

http://nsnbc.me/2015/07/03/mh17-the-...onal-cover-up/

[Hervé]

Finally!

Someone has been looking at the facts!


Israeli-made air-to-air missile may have downed MH17 - report

Published time: 16 Jul, 2015 16:06
Get short URL

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...c9028b456f.jpg

A report on Malaysian Airlines MH17 air disaster in Ukraine last year by a group of old-hand aviation security experts maintains that the Boeing might have been downed by an Israeli Python air-to-air missile.

The report was leaked via the private LiveJournal account of Albert Naryshkin (aka albert_lex) late on Tuesday and has already been widely discussed by social media communities in Russia.

The authors of the investigative report have calculated the possible detonation initiation point of the missile that hit the passenger aircraft and approximate number and weight of strike elements, which in turn designated the type and presumed manufacturer of the weapon.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...ff028b456d.jpg

Malaysian Airline Boeing 777-200 performing flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014, crashed on the territory of Ukraine near the village of Grabovo, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crew members aboard.

The aircraft disintegrated in the air and the debris of MH17 were scattered across an area of about 50 sq. km.

The external view of MH17 hull pieces indicates that “fragments of the pilots’ cockpit have suffered specific damages in the form of localized puncture holes and surface dents typical for hypervelocity impacts with compact and hard objects,” the report says, stressing that similar damage could be found on the inner side of the cockpit.

The report specifically points out that chips of the body coat around the holes in the fragment are typical of wave effects created by hypervelocity impacts.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...c6028b4592.jpg

Some damage, though larger and less clustered, could be found near the air-scoop of the left-wing engine of the aircraft.

The nature of the damage allows for the identification of the source as a high-explosive fragmentation warhead from a modern anti-aircraft weapon, claims the report.

Apart from the large puncture holes, the debris of the nose and the cockpit of the aircraft bear a large number of scattered micro-craters resulting from the impact of high-velocity dust and tiny debris, such as an unburnt blasting agent and elements of the ordnance that accompany a shock wave from a blast that occurred very close to the target. In the case of MH17, the pilots’ cockpit.

The report says that as a rule, the initial speed of the striking elements of modern anti-aircraft weapons vary between 1,500 and 2,500 meters per second.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...c8028b4586.jpg

Altogether, the experts considered photos of five fragments of the cockpit and left port of the flight MH17, on which they counted some 230 “battle-damage” holes and punctures.

All this considered, the experts claim that the exact zone of the blast impact could be established with a fair degree of accuracy.

The warhead of the missile exploded very close to the cockpit, to its left side at a distance of 0.8-1.6 meters from the cockpit windows, exactly opposite the sliding window of the aircraft commander.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...c4028b458a.jpg

The dimensions and character of the puncture holes left by the strike elements allegedly allow their size and form factor to be established, which in its turn makes it possible to identify the type of weapon used in a particular case.

The cross dimension of absolute majority, 86 percent, of the 186 hull holes studied by experts measure between 6 and 13mm, with explicit maximum of them having cross dimension of 8mm.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...c5028b458d.jpg

This fact brought the expert group to a conclusion about the size of the strike elements of the warhead. If the warhead had been armed with two types of strike elements, the majority of the holes would have been of two types, the reports notes.

The strike element has been established of being a rectangular block measured 8mm x 8mm x 6mm, with margin of error of 0.5 mm, a high probability it was made of steel and an estimated weight of 3 grams each. The total number of such elements should have varied between 2,000 and 4,000.

The bulk of the strike elements are estimated between 4.88 – 14.8 kilograms.

The report confutes the argument of Russia’s Almaz-Antey military concern that early claimed that “intricate shape” double-t steel fragments, similar to those used in warheads of surface-to-air Buk missile systems, have been extracted from the debris of MH17 flight.

Howwever, the double-t strike elements of a Buk missile weigh 8.1 grams, more than twice as much as a single damage fragment among those that pierced MH17’s hull. Thus, according to the report, the hypothesis about a Buk missile system being involved in the crash is “most probably incorrect.”

With 95 percent probability, the group of experts estimates the weight of the missile’s warhead (explosives plus strike elements) that shot down MH17 of being between 10 and 40kg.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...c9028b4596.jpg

This led the experts to determine the exact type of the weapon used against Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

The report says that that Soviet- and Russian-made surface-to-air missile systems use more powerful warheads than the established maximum 40kg, as is the case with MH17.

Moreover, Soviet- and Russian-made air-to-air missiles which have a similar 10-40kg warhead capability use other types of strike elements within one warhead - obviously not the case with MH17.

A whole range of existing foreign air-to-air missiles have corresponding warhead characteristics, yet lack of physical elements of the missile used against MH17 prevented experts from establishing the exact type of the weapon used.

Still, the circumstances and conditions of the assault allowed experts to make certain assumptions.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...ff028b4584.jpg

The missile that attacked MH17 had a passive radar homing head, which explains why the missile exploded so close to the cockpit. Under the radar-transparent nosecone of a Boeing 777-200 there is a surveillance radar station operable during the flight, so most likely the missile homed on to this radar as the target.

Apart from a radar homing head, the missile could also be equipped with an advanced, matrix type, imaging IR seeker, which enables the missile to determine the size and the type of the target and choose for attack its most vital element. For a huge Boeing aircraft, that’s the cockpit.

A simulation of the missile attack has proved that missiles with that type of guidance choose to attack a big passenger plane from the front hemisphere.

There are four air-to-air missiles that fit the description established by the experts, namely: French Magis-2, Israeli Shafrir, American AIM-9 and Israeli Python – all short-range.

The first three have been struck off the list for various reasons, including type of warhead or guidance system specifications. The Python deserved a closer look.

The Python is equipped with a matrix-imaging IR seeker. It enables a relatively moderate power warhead to effectively engage big aircrafts. The warhead is armed with a set of ready strike elements. Even more importantly, some open military sources suggest that in early 2000s a number of Sukhoi Su-25 assault fighter jets we refurbished to use fourth and fifth generation Python missiles, which look very similar to the Su-25’s standard air-to-air R-60 missile.

https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/ori...c8028b45a4.jpg

The unofficial report leaked in LiveJournal has become yet another one among many other unofficial versions presented over the year that has passed since the catastrophe occurred on July 17, 2014.

The Dutch Safety Board that has been heading an international investigation into the cause of the crash is due to release its official report in October.

[Hervé]

SOTT.net comment on the above article:


Comment: When you combine this information about the probable missile being Israeli-made with the information Sott.net found about Su-25s having been upgraded by an Israeli firm...

'MH17 Who Dunnit? Western Media Silent on the Evidence', published on Sept 1st, 2014:

The Russians have stated that the jet they spotted on radar near MH17 at the time of the crash was most likely an Su-25. The Su-25 basic model is a rather 'dated' fighter aircraft that does not have a pressurized cockpit meaning that flying for any length of time above its operational ceiling of 7,000 meters is problematic for the pilot (MH17 was at 10,000 meters). The standard SU-25 also has fairly basic instruments and weapons, with only a laser guidance system for rocket and canon fire which, apart from being designed for ground target acquisition, has an error range of up to 13 feet. If the Su-25 came no closer than 3-5 kms and was only equipped with laser guidance, accurate targeting of the cockpit would not have been possible... with a standard Su-25.

Since the 1970s, several variants of the Su-25 have been produced, the most recent of which is the Su-25KM 'Scorpion' which was announced in early 2001 by the original manufacturer, Tbilisi Aircraft Manufacturing in Georgia, in partnership with Elbit Systems of Israel.

The aircraft uses a standard Su-25 airframe, enhanced with advanced avionics including a glass cockpit, digital map generator, helmet-mounted display, computerized weapons system, complete mission pre-plan capability, and fully redundant backup modes. Performance enhancements include a highly accurate navigation system, pinpoint weapon delivery systems, all-weather and day/night performance, NATO compatibility, state-of-the art safety and survivability features [...]

[Cidersomerset]

Good articles Herv'e......The Ukranian air force has the plane and the missile and
the motive to cause a 'false flag' to blame the rebels. Aim ? To ultimately blame
Russia, escalate the conflict to bring NATO ground troops and air offensives against
rebels and Russia if she reacted thus creating a conflict that could escalate into
war. Which the Neo - Cons in the US with Israeli support have been trying to do, if
you listen to rhetoric of many Republicans senators and others.

In this clip from 2010 the questioner hits some cords with Zionist puppet Sen Mc
Caine before being blown off and saved by another questioner. But NWO ,
Organised crime 'Banksters' all connected , Rothchilds also mentioned ? ...... Same
Old names behind the scenes..Many dots can be connected going back decades......

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0LYhmc2VD-0

Uploaded on 17 Jul 2010
John McCain and Jeff Gates, townhall meeting, discussing organized crime, Tempe Arizona, July 2010
http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-cr...#article_15156



http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-prepa...influence.html


========================================================
========================================================






http://airheadsfly.com/2014/03/01/ov...orces-ukraine/



http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-cr...#article_15156




http://gunm.ru/news/usovershenstvova...2011-08-23-474







Very good video Herv'e............." Advanced debriefing capabilities " There
must be a mission tape somewhere ? Or as in all the best ' false flags ' The
cameras were not working ...LOL

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAszf4XPTFo

[Sophocles]

MH17 couldn’t be shot from rebel areas, West pressuring investigators – Russian Air Agency

Published time: 16 Jul, 2015 23:16

(RT)Malaysian flight MH17 couldn’t have been shot by a ground-to-air missile from the areas controlled by eastern Ukrainian rebels, said Russian Federal Air Transport Agency, adding that West is putting pressure upon investigators to get conclusions it wants.

“If the missile, as Western authorities claim, were sent from Snezhnoe area [controlled by the rebels], then according to all experts and specialists, it would have been detected by radar station in Rostov-on –Don [region in Russia which borders on Donetsk Region],” Deputy chief of Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency Oleg Storchevoy said during a briefing on MH17 investigation Thursday.

He also added that if the missile that targeted the Malaysian plane was sent from Zaroshchenskое town which was at that time controlled by Kiev troops, specialists say that “the radars would have recorded neither the launch, nor the movement of the missile towards the plane.”

According to Storchevoy, Russian Air Transport Agency believes that the factors pointing at the downing of the plane by air-to-air or ground-to-air missile “are obvious and they are present.”

The investigators who are preparing the final report on the tragedy should also investigate the version that Malaysian plane crash could have been caused by air-to-air missile, he said.

Storchevoy added that there are “numerous records from plane crash witnesses, saying that they saw a military aircraft in the sky at the moment of MH17 crash.”

He reminded that earlier in July Russian aviation experts published the results of their own investigation, saying that MH17 was probably downed by air-to-air missile, but not a Russian made one.

The version of air-to-air missile is also considered to be a priority one by the Russian Investigative Committee.

The deputy chief of Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency also commented on the conclusions made by Russian military manufacturer Almaz-Antey, who said that if the flight was downed by a ground-to-air missile, it was Buk-M1 missile system. However, they added at the time that an air-to-air missile variant is also possible.

“We presented all the reports by Almaz-Antey manufacturer to international investigators during one of our meetings,” Storchevoy said, adding that the manufacturer’s investigation “is not a confirmation that the aircraft was downed exactly by Buk-M1 missile, but a consideration of possible version of a catastrophe.”

“Other variants of the downing of the plane are not rejected,” he added.

Russia the only country that published data on MH17 crash

Russia has questions why Ukraine and the US didn’t release the data concerning Malaysian plane crash, said Storchevoy, adding that Russia is the first and only country that published its data on the tragedy.

The Russian Defense Ministry held a briefing several days after Malaysian jet crash, where it presented all of its satellite data concerning the catastrophe.

Russia has sent international investigators “all the data which was asked from us,” including that from radars in Rostov. No other country has published the data it had on Malaysian jet crash, said Storchevoy.

“There are no documents from Ukraine, concerning the negotiations of the military on the day of the crash, no military flights schedule, no reports on availability and expenditure of the surface-to-air missiles, no satellite images from the US.”

Moreover, Russian experts were not invited to participate in the international investigation into the tragedy of the Malaysian Boeing, despite Moscow’s repeated proposals and experience they had, Storchevoy reminded.

“Russian organizations, specialists and experts on such investigations haven’t been involved in [MH17 crash] probe, despite repeated proposals from our [Russian] side to assist by providing competent experts as well as the necessary equipment for carrying out complicated tests.”

Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency has claims over parts of MH17 crash report

Russian Federal Air Transport Agency has several claims over the report by Dutch investigators, Storchevoy said.

“I can give comments on the current investigation, on the final report only after this final report is officially published.”

He added that Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency has “many things to say on this document and have some things to contradict to some of its points.”

“But currently I am bound by international norms and rules,” he said.

The Dutch Safety Board has released a preliminary report in September 2014 and is planning to release their full report on the tragedy in October 2015.

‘West is putting deliberate pressure on MH17 investigators’

Various comments and information leaks on the investigation of the MH17 tragedy before official release of Dutch experts report are merely a deliberate pressure on the international investigation commission, says Storchevoy.

“Without waiting for the results of official investigation, right after the catastrophe, journalists and western politicians started with lightning speed to release biased materials, based mostly on information from the social media, where the alleged causes of the accident, as well as the alleged culprits were named in no uncertain terms.”

This is not in line with the conventions of international civil aviation and should be viewed as “deliberate pressure on the investigative commission to get necessary conclusions,” he said.

Storchevoy used US ambassador to Russia John Tefft as an example, who said in an interview with Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper that the US “just knows” who is behind the tragedy.

“It is hard to call this position [Tefft’s] constructive and worthy of a politician of such a high rank,” Storchevoy said.

The CNN has also aired a report on Wednesday which cited two anonymous US officials reportedly familiar with the Dutch report on the MH17 crash in Ukraine, as saying that the plane was downed by the eastern Ukrainian rebel forces.

However, the Dutch Safety Board spokesperson Sara Vernooij told RT the investigators “cannot confirm” this information.

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur, crashed in the Donetsk Region in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing all 298 people on board. The Dutch Safety Board has been heading an international investigation into the cause of the crash, since a large number of passengers on the flight were from Holland while the plane itself flew out of Amsterdam.

Full article at RT

[Cidersomerset]

As with all these tragedies , ' false flags ' there are always innocent victims....




MH17 anniversary: The bedroom frozen in time

6 hours ago

Friday marks the first anniversary of the crash of Malaysia Airlines
Flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine that killed all 298 people on board.

short vid about one victims mothers thoughts...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33549849

Silene and Rob Fredriksz's 23-year-old son Bryce and his girlfriend
Daisy Oehlers were going on a dream holiday to Bali aboard the aeroplane.

They were just two of the 193 Dutch nationals who died in the disaster.

Silene has left Bryce and Daisy's bedroom untouched since the day
the young couple dashed out of the house to catch the flight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33549849



====================================================

Ukraine Today says the Russians fabricated evidence and that they shot down the
plane . The propaganda war continues !!


MH17 Tragedy Anniversary: All evidence points to Russian involvement one year later

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FFbeFOZm8S8

Published on 16 Jul 2015



Igor Girkin, the former commander of Russian special forces in eastern Ukraine,
was on Wednesday formally accused of orchestrating the downing of Malaysia
Airlines flight MH17 on July 17 last year.


===================================================
===================================================

Who ? Will Sue Who ? in the International courts ? The interviewer was trying
to emphasis Russia , but Lawyer kept saying and Ukraine ...........


Remembering MH17: Aviation lawyer gives exclusive interview on flight MH17 tragedy

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z8x2WmpUg9Q

Published on 15 Jul 2015


Ukraine Today is joined by Andriy Guck, an aviation lawyer, to discuss the tragedy
of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, which was shot down a year ago in east Ukraine.

[Matt P]

Yes, I know it's RT but it's an interesting article and there would certainly be no surprise if this is correct. Report due to be submitted in October. Hopefully the investigators don't have to get on a plane to deliver it.

Wish I could copy and paste the whole article, with photos included, but this won't let me. You'll have to go to the original to see photos with descriptions.

Matt

http://www.rt.com/news/310039-mh17-i...ssile-version/

A report on Malaysian Airlines MH17 air disaster in Ukraine last year by a group of old-hand aviation security experts maintains that the Boeing might have been downed by an Israeli Python air-to-air missile.

The report was leaked via the private LiveJournal account of Albert Naryshkin (aka albert_lex) late on Tuesday and has already been widely discussed by social media communities in Russia.

The authors of the investigative report have calculated the possible detonation initiation point of the missile that hit the passenger aircraft and approximate number and weight of strike elements, which in turn designated the type and presumed manufacturer of the weapon.

Malaysian Airline Boeing 777-200 performing flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014, crashed on the territory of Ukraine near the village of Grabovo, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crewmembers aboard.

The aircraft disintegrated in the air and the debris of MH17 were scattered across an area of about 50 sq. km.

The external view of MH17 hull pieces indicates that “fragments of the pilots’ cockpit have suffered specific damages in the form of localized puncture holes and surface dents typical for hypervelocity impacts with compact and hard objects,” the report says, stressing that similar damage could be found on the inner side of the cockpit.

The report specifically points out that chips of the body coat around the holes in the fragment are typical of wave effects created by hypervelocity impacts.

Some damage, though larger and less clustered, could be found near the air-scoop of the left-wing engine of the aircraft.

The nature of the damage allows for the identification of the source as a high-explosive fragmentation warhead from a modern anti-aircraft weapon, claims the report.

Apart from the large puncture holes, the debris of the nose and the cockpit of the aircraft bear a large number of scattered micro-craters resulting from the impact of high-velocity dust and tiny debris, such as an unburnt blasting agent and elements of the ordnance that accompany a shock wave from a blast that occurred very close to the target. In the case of MH17, the pilots’ cockpit.

The report says that as a rule, the initial speed of the striking elements of modern anti-aircraft weapons vary between 1,500 and 2,500 meters per second.

Altogether, the experts considered photos of five fragments of the cockpit and left port of the flight MH17, on which they counted some 230 “battle-damage” holes and punctures.

All this considered, the experts claim that the exact zone of the blast impact could be established with a fair degree of accuracy.

The warhead of the missile exploded very close to the cockpit, to its left side at a distance of 0.8-1.6 meters from the cockpit windows, exactly opposite the sliding window of the aircraft commander.

The dimensions and character of the puncture holes left by the strike elements allegedly allow their size and form factor to be established, which in its turn makes it possible to identify the type of weapon used in a particular case.

The cross dimension of absolute majority, 86 percent, of the 186 hull holes studied by experts measure between 6 and 13mm, with explicit maximum of them having cross dimension of 8mm.

This fact brought the expert group to a conclusion about the size of the strike elements of the warhead. If the warhead had been armed with two types of strike elements, the majority of the holes would have been of two types, the reports notes.

The strike element has been established of being a rectangular block measured 8mm x 8mm x 6mm, with margin of error of 0.5 mm, a high probability it was made of steel and an estimated weight of 3 grams each. The total number of such elements should have varied between 2,000 and 4,000.

The bulk of the strike elements are estimated between 4.88 – 14.8 kilograms.

The report confutes the argument of Russia’s Almaz-Antey military concern that early claimed that “intricate shape” double-t steel fragments, similar to those used in warheads of surface-to-air Buk missile systems, have been extracted from the debris of MH17 flight.

However, the double-t strike elements of a Buk missile weigh 8.1 grams, more than twice as much as a single damage fragment among those that pierced MH17’s hull. Thus, according to the report, the hypothesis about a Buk missile system being involved in the crash is “most probably incorrect.”

With 95 percent probability, the group of experts estimates the weight of the missile’s warhead (explosives plus strike elements) that shot down MH17 of being between 10 and 40kg.

This led the experts to determine the exact type of the weapon used against Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

The report says that that Soviet- and Russian-made surface-to-air missile systems use more powerful warheads than the established maximum 40kg, as is the case with MH17.

Moreover, Soviet- and Russian-made air-to-air missiles which have a similar 10-40kg warhead capability use other types of strike elements within one warhead - obviously not the case with MH17.

A whole range of existing foreign air-to-air missiles have corresponding warhead characteristics, yet lack of physical elements of the missile used against MH17 prevented experts from establishing the exact type of the weapon used.

Still, the circumstances and conditions of the assault allowed experts to make certain assumptions.

The missile that attacked MH17 had a passive radar homing head, which explains why the missile exploded so close to the cockpit. Under the radar-transparent nosecone of a Boeing 777-200 there is a surveillance radar station operable during the flight, so most likely the missile homed on to this radar as the target.

Apart from a radar homing head, the missile could also be equipped with an advanced, matrix type, imaging IR seeker, which enables the missile to determine the size and the type of the target and choose for attack its most vital element. For a huge Boeing aircraft, that’s the cockpit.

A simulation of the missile attack has proved that missiles with that type of guidance choose to attack a big passenger plane from the front hemisphere.

There are four air-to-air missiles that fit the description established by the experts, namely: French Magis-2, Israeli Shafrir, American AIM-9 and Israeli Python – all short-range.

The first three have been struck off the list for various reasons, including type of warhead or guidance system specifications. The Python deserved a closer look.

The Python is equipped with a matrix-imaging IR seeker. It enables a relatively moderate power warhead to effectively engage big aircrafts. The warhead is armed with a set of ready strike elements. Even more importantly, some open military sources suggest that in early 2000s a number of Sukhoi Su-25 assault fighter jets we refurbished to use fourth and fifth generation Python missiles, which look very similar to the Su-25’s standard air-to-air R-60 missile.

The unofficial report leaked in LiveJournal has become yet another one among many other unofficial versions presented over the year that has passed since the catastrophe occurred on July 17, 2014.

The Dutch Safety Board that has been heading an international investigation into the cause of the crash is due to release its official report in October.

[ponda]

What struck me as unusual was how immediately after the plane went down there were various claims from western politicians and talking heads that it was the Russians who were responsible and this was before any evidence had been evaluated.

[lucidity]

Posted by ponda (here)
What struck me as unusual was how immediately after the plane went down there were various claims from western politicians and talking heads that it was the Russians who were responsible and this was before any evidence had been evaluated.

Yes.. you're right,... the media was blaming Russia even before the crash investigators
had finished investigating. And when the crash investigators had finished investigating,
_bizarrely_ they signed a non-disclosure agreement with the British and French.

As if to say "we're not going to tell the world what we found out".
That never normally happens. The whole point of a crash investigation team
is to find out what happened.

There was something very, very wrong about that whole scenario.

be happy :-)

lucidity

[Hervé]

Posted by mpennery (here)
Yes, I know it's RT but it's an interesting article and there would certainly be no surprise if this is correct....

Psssttt... see this post: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

... includes supporting pictures and graphs...

[WhiteLove]

I totally agree and it's totally relevant that it's not appropriate to make any comments whatsoever in media or elsewhere about the source of the missile before an official investigation has been carried out, standard procedure and several news magazines failed completely, very suspicious activity...

Since the media started reporting blames too early by US politicians etc. that is a big red flag and shows that someone had certain motives/interests for the investigation to lead in a certain direction.

I think that this deed was carried out by a US-Israel breakaway military elite, with ties to certain secret possibly neo nazi societies. Becuase the trace evidence leads in that direction.

It was a disgusting act of war...

[Cidersomerset]

Sometimes it worth highlighting a breakthrough or article from a larger
thread , I did it a few days ago with post from the Jimmy Saville one.
Herv'e presented a good article about this titles topic and we discussed
it briefly. But it is deep in the thread. If true it adds to the false flag theory,
they certainly had the motives , backing and hardware.....

=================================================


Good articles Herv'e......The Ukranian air force has the plane and the missile and
the motive to cause a 'false flag' to blame the rebels. Aim ? To ultimately blame
Russia, escalate the conflict to bring NATO ground troops and air offensives against
rebels and Russia if she reacted thus creating a conflict that could escalate into
war. Which the Neo - Cons in the US with Israeli support have been trying to do, if
you listen to rhetoric of many Republicans senators and others.

In this clip from 2010 the questioner hits some cords with Zionist puppet Sen Mc
Caine before being blown off and saved by another questioner. But NWO ,
Organised crime 'Banksters' all connected , Rothchilds also mentioned ? ...... Same
Old names behind the scenes..Many dots can be connected going back decades......

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0LYhmc2VD-0

Uploaded on 17 Jul 2010
John McCain and Jeff Gates, townhall meeting, discussing organized crime, Tempe Arizona, July 2010
http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-cr...#article_15156



http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-prepa...influence.html


========================================================
========================================================






http://airheadsfly.com/2014/03/01/ov...orces-ukraine/



http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-cr...#article_15156




http://gunm.ru/news/usovershenstvova...2011-08-23-474







Very good video Herv'e............." Advanced debriefing capabilities " There
must be a mission tape somewhere ? Or as in all the best ' false flags ' The
cameras were not working ...LOL

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAszf4XPTFo

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/edit...tpostSometimes

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:

We have to remember that there is a war going on and propoganda gets the people to agree to many things that would normally be completely wrong! There was no reason for Russia to down this aircraft BUT there was a long list of reasons for other countries to down it. Politics has been in the way of finding out the truth from the beginning of this crash.
I hope that truth and justice will find the perpetrators and prosecute them to the fullest degree of the law.
chancy

[lucidity]

Hello Siblings,

I wonder how the Dutch are responding to the murder of a plane load of their citizens.

I remember it was the Scandinavians who were the first to be publically critical of the blood bath
against the Palestinians in Gaza last year. And it was principally the Germans and
French who steadfastly refused to cooperate in a war against Russia last year... suggesting
instead that NATO be redesigned with Russia as key contributor to NATO forces.

And I notice that Obama has refused to back down to Israeli pressure
to start a war on Iran... and to disable her Nuclear capabilities forever.

Perhaps tables are quietly turning against the Israelis.

be happy

lucidity :-)