+ Reply to Thread
Page 57 of 69 FirstFirst 1 7 47 57 67 69 LastLast
Results 1,121 to 1,140 of 1377

Thread: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

  1. Link to Post #1121
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?




    9 September 2014 Last updated at 12:48

    MH17 crash: Dutch investigators' first findingsLatest


    Aircraft debris field and recovered parts identified on plane Parts of the plane were
    found 8km (5 miles) from the main debris site



    Dutch investigators say the damage to Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which crashed
    in eastern Ukraine on 17 July, suggests it was pierced by a large number of objects
    from outside the plane. They reveal that a few minutes before the plane went
    down, the pilots asked to move a few nautical miles north of their flight path
    because of weather conditions.The Dutch Safety Board says its preliminary report
    was based on the contents of the flight and cockpit data recorders, other
    communication with the plane, as well as forensic examination of the wreckage
    where possible.

    These are its key findings.

    MH17 was flying in unrestricted airspace, its engines running normally at 293 knots
    at 33,000ft (10,000m) cruise altitude

    Three other commercial planes were flying over the same airspace at around the
    same time - the closest 30km (18.5 miles) away

    12:53GMT: Dnipropetrovsk air traffic control (ATC) asks MH17 to climb to 35,000ft
    according to flight plan and to avoid other planes


    Diagram of planes in the area Three other commercial planes were in the same
    airspace at the time of the crash. MH17 says it is unable to comply and ATC agrees
    it can stay at 33,000ft; other traffic climbs to 35,000ft

    13:00: MH17 asks to divert 20 nautical miles to left, due to weather; ATC agrees
    but refuses permission to climb to 34,000ftIsolated thunderstorms were apparent in
    the area with some lightning strikes south-west of Donetsk

    13:19:53: MH17 flying 3.6 nautical miles north of centreline of airway
    ATC asks MH17 to alter route to "proceed direct" to waypoint Romeo November
    Delta due to other traffic

    13:19:56: Last MH17 crew transmission: "Romeo November Delta, Malaysian One Seven" - confirming flight path

    13:19:59: Transmission ends

    13:20:03: Flight data and cockpit recordings end abruptly
    Dnipropetrovsk ATC contacted several times but with no answer.No aural warnings
    from crew or alerts of plane system malfunctions; no distress messages received
    Likely that damage resulted in loss of structural integrity of aircraft, leading to
    break-up in the airForward parts of plane found near Petropavlivka closest to last
    flight data broadcastCockpit window contained numerous small puncture holes
    suggesting small objects entered from above level of cockpit floor.Cockpit floor -
    Source NBAAI A picture of MH17's damaged cockpit floor Damage to forward
    section indicates plane penetrated by large number of high energy objects from
    outside Wings, engines, fuselage found at main wreckage site 8.5km to east of last
    recorded position, around Grabove

    Aircraft wreckage scattered over approximate area of 10km by 5km, indicating the plane broke up in the air.

    No evidence found of manipulation of flight and data recorders, handed by rebels to Malaysian official in Donetsk

    No indication of technical or operational issues with plane or crew

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29122816
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 12th September 2014 at 20:55.

  2. Link to Post #1122
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    =================================================




    12 September 2014 Last updated at 16:18

    MH17 crash: Investigation focuses on '25 metal shards'Debris from MH17, 9 Sept 14


    Access to the crash site has been hampered by fighting between the rebels and Ukrainian forces




    The investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 is searching for clues in
    25 pieces of metal recovered from bodies and debris.

    Dutch officials heading the inquiry say they want to establish whether the iron fragments
    could prove the theory that a ground-to-air missile struck the plane.

    Flight MH17 came down over eastern Ukraine on 17 July, killing all 298 people aboard,
    mostly Dutch citizens.

    The investigation has been hampered by continued fighting near the crash site.

    Detectives are relying heavily on forensic samples taken from bodies and baggage, as
    well as satellite data, interviews with witnesses, computer reconstructions, online
    evidence and intercepted communications.

    Flight MH17 was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it crashed in rebel-held
    territory in eastern Ukraine.

    Ukraine and Western countries have accused pro-Russian separatists of downing the
    plane with a surface-to-air missile, supplied by Russia.




    Rebel at crash site, 9 September 14 Pro-Russian rebels have rejected claims that they brought down the plane

    Russia and the rebels have denied the allegation, instead blaming the Ukrainian government
    for the attack. Russia is playing no role in the criminal investigation.

    Intercepted conversation

    At a press conference in Rotterdam on Friday, Fred Westerbeke, chief prosecutor for the
    Dutch national prosecution service, said that the investigation was particularly interested
    in the origin of 25 pieces of iron, drawn from 500 samples.

    "The most likely scenario was that the plane was shot down from the ground," he said.

    "If we can establish that this iron is coming from such a missile, that is important
    information of course," he said. "At this moment we don't know that, but that is
    what we are investigating."

    a piece of the MH-17 fuselage The head of Emirates airlines says some carriers appeared
    to know there were anti-aircraft missiles in Ukraine and were avoiding the country's airspace
    Mr Westerbeke said any future prosecution would need to pinpoint where the missile
    was fired from, and who controlled that area.

    Patricia Zorko, of the Dutch national police, said the investigation was also examining
    the recording of an intercepted conversation discussing the missile attack.

    "The conversation is between rebels who allegedly shot down the plane, but we really
    need to authenticate it," she said.

    A Dutch safety board report said this week that the plane appeared to have been
    struck by a number of small fragments - again supporting the theory that a
    surface-to-air missile was involved.

    The report ruled out mechanical failure or pilot error.




    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29180887

  3. Link to Post #1123
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?



    12 September 2014 Last updated at 13:24

    Airline boss suggests Malaysian MH17 tragedy could have been avoidedRichard Westcott
    By Richard Westcott

    BBC Transport Correspondent

    a piece of the MH-17 fuselage



    Some airlines appeared to know there were anti-aircraft missiles in Ukraine and were
    avoiding the country's airspace, Sir Tim Clark has said


    The boss of Emirates has suggested that airlines would have avoided flying over
    Ukraine long before flight MH17 crashed, if information about missiles in the area
    had been passed on.

    Sir Tim Clark told the BBC there had been evidence of weapons for weeks.

    But he claimed those in the know didn't share it with most of the carriers flying
    across the country.

    If the airlines had all been told, he suggests, the industry would probably have
    by-passed the danger zone.

    And he added that some carriers did appear to know because they were avoiding
    the area, but they didn't share the information.

    Continue reading the main story

    Start Quote
    We have a concern that that information was known by certain stakeholders”
    End Quote
    Sir Tim Clark

    President, Emirates

    It's widely believed that a missile downed Malaysian flight MH17 on 17th July,
    killing all 298 people on board.

    Planes had been cleared to fly in the area as long as they stayed above a certain
    height, and a report earlier this week highlighted the fact that three other large
    passenger jets were in the same area at roughly the same time as the Malaysian flight.

    Sir Tim said: "There was evidence that these missiles had been on site, in
    situ for a number of weeks beforehand.

    "Emirates did not know of that fact, and I don't think many others did. Had
    we known that, we would probably have reacted in a manner that would have
    seen a complete avoidance of Ukrainian airspace, probably as an industry.

    "We have a concern that information was known by certain stakeholders...
    and should have been passed... at least to the industry, to the organisations
    that regulate the industry.

    "We understand now that certain carriers were aware of that and had
    already taken avoidance action."

    British Airways was among several airlines that had been avoiding Ukraine
    for weeks. But in a recent BBC interview, the overall boss of the company,
    Willie Walsh, said that decision was based on information that was publicly
    available at the time.

    Sir Tim is calling for an information "clearing house" to be set up, that can
    warn all airlines, quickly, if there are any new threats in an area.

    At the moment it's down to each individual airline to decide whether to travel
    over a war zone, based on information from local air traffic control and from
    their own government. And carriers aren't obliged to pass on the information
    to each other.

    Airport expansion

    Sir Tim, who is one of the most respected voices in the industry, also says that a
    "Yes" vote for Scotland would heighten the need for a new runway in the south of England.

    Although he made clear that he didn't want to get involved in the politics of the
    decision, he told us: "Clearly, if they do become independent they will develop
    their own civil aviation strategies, they will probably develop Glasgow, Edinburgh
    and Aberdeen. But therefore there is more impetus required for the remaining
    parts of the UK to develop their aviation strategy, to fill a gap."

    Like so many others in the business world, the Emirates' president says that
    doing nothing is not an option, be it expansion at Heathrow, Gatwick, or even
    at the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson's preferred location, in the Thames Estuary.

    After four decades in the business Sir Tim says he's seen airport expansion
    plans come and go, but there really does seem to be an urgency to do
    something this time,

    "I witnessed the Maplin Sands episodes in the 70s. Clearly there wasn't a
    buy-in to the level that I believe there is today. When you see the likes of
    Mayor Johnson, you may not agree with his Estuary project... the fact is
    that a person like this, who is politically, extremely powerful, he has
    championed this cause, he has raised the profile of the need for London
    and the South East to have more access."

    Maplin Sands was another proposal to build a floating airport in the Thames
    Estuary. They'd even begun building the place, but it was swiftly ditched in
    1974 by the new Labour government in the wake of the oil crisis.

    Finally, Sir Tim made the point that the UK needs to grow all of its regional
    airports too, including Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle and Cardiff,
    which he described as having great potential.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29170560


    =================================================


    http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png[/IMG]

    28 July 2014 Last updated at 08:25

    MH17 crash: The 298 who perished

    All 298 people on board a Malaysia Airlines plane lost their lives after the jet
    crashed into a field in eastern Ukraine, close to the border with Russia. Flight MH17
    from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was travelling over the conflict-hit region on 17
    July when it plummeted to the ground.

    Photos of some of the victims.....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-28482176

  4. Link to Post #1124
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Dutch police recover metal fragments from MH17 bodies

    Posted on Sep 12, 2014 by Janene Van Jaarsveldt


    Wreckage of flight MH17 (Source: Twitter/@Yahoo)

    One part of the forensic investigation into the MH17 plane crash in the Ukraine focuses on 25 metal fragments that were found on bodies of passengers and baggage.

    The investigation is examining where these particles came from. From the aircraft itself, from luggage or from a source external to the aircraft such as the missile, says Patricia Zorko of the national police Friday during a press conference. Zorko is leading the criminal investigation done by the police and justice after the disaster. According to Zorko currently about 500 physical traces have been secured, including 25 metal fragments.

    Chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke of the national prosecutor says that the Public Prosecutor is very willing to prosecute the parties responsible for the MH17 plane crash in the Netherlands. The Public Prosecutor in the Netherlands is leading the international crime investigation into those responsible for the disaster.

    The Public Prosecutor began the investigation in order to identify and prosecute the culprits immediately after the disaster. At the start of the investigation police and justice considered four scenarios: an accident, a terrorist attack from inside the plane, an attack from the ground or an attack from the air.

    According to Weterbeke a missile fired from the ground seems like the most likely scenario as the cause of the crash.

    *********************************************

    Look at that wording:
    Quote a terrorist attack from inside the plane
    ... anything but any mention of a bomb or sabotage of the plane before departure...

    ... such a careful wording is almost an admission of guilt since most MSM consumers fail to connect "n-Letters" agencies and "Terrorists" so that, ultimately, it can be blamed on some cave dwelling, hibernating creature...

    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (18th September 2014), Operator (13th September 2014), Ron Mauer Sr (13th September 2014), Sophocles (13th September 2014)

  6. Link to Post #1125
    Avalon Member Operator's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th March 2010
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    2,729
    Thanks
    7,575
    Thanked 9,670 times in 1,986 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    ---
    Look at that wording:
    Quote a terrorist attack from inside the plane
    ... anything but any mention of a bomb or sabotage of the plane before departure...

    ... such a careful wording is almost an admission of guilt since most MSM consumers fail to connect "n-Letters" agencies and "Terrorists" so that, ultimately, it can be blamed on some cave dwelling, hibernating creature...

    I've sent in a comment on an article in a Dutch newspaper last Monday. I took care it was according to all their rules in order
    to not get rejected. I mentioned Schiphol as start of investigation and usage of a bomb again.

    They could not reject my comments, instead they delayed approval till Friday(!) and buried my comments between other old ones.
    How much more proof do we need that the real cause is anxiously covered up?

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Operator For This Post:

    avid (18th September 2014), Carmody (15th November 2014), Hervé (13th September 2014), korgh (15th September 2014), seko (14th November 2014), Slorri (15th September 2014)

  8. Link to Post #1126
    Avalon Member sigma6's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th July 2011
    Location
    Tattooine
    Posts
    3,428
    Thanks
    8,906
    Thanked 12,729 times in 2,903 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Benjamin Fulford Sept 8, 2014

    Quote Meanwhile, the Nazionist attack on the Ukraine is going badly, a Russian government source says. “The Ukraine is going broke, the army on their Eastern front are defecting because of lack of food, ammunition, and pay. Their central government, likewise, is beginning to collapse because of a lack of funding,” he says. All Russian President Vladimir Putin has to do is wait because winter is approaching and they will have no gas, he notes. Germany, which also needs Russian gas to get through the winter, is increasingly anxious to settle the Ukranian crisis, he added.

    Putin, for his part, needs to make sure people friendly to him seize control of the shores of the Sea of Azov between Russia and the Ukraine. This is to make sure Russia controls the giant gas deposits there that are one of the real causes for this crisis. That is why fighting is still reported along the shores of that sea despite a supposed cease fire.

    The 67 world leaders gathered at the NATO summit held last week were unable to come up with any real solution to their imploding Ukrainian gambit, according to MI5 sources. The best their armaments company sponsors could come up with was to get them to use their new fake cold war with Russia as an excuse to build arms stashes all over the world for a “rapid reaction force.” They also all publicly said they will not send weapons the Nazionist regime in the Ukraine.

    The governments of the US and Europe, however, cannot afford to go on a weapons buying splurge these days though because their economies are imploding. The IMF, formerly the apex of world financial power, is bankrupt. The Federal Reserve Board, the European Central Bank and the Bank of Japan are also in a panic because their fiat fairy dust money sprinkling is not producing the magic results they hoped for.

    The EU has actually put negative interest rates on bank accounts to try to force companies to spend it.
    Negative interest rates? Did I just step through Alice's looking Glass? Huh??
    say that again... Negative Interest rates... Maybe next they will open a Walmart and start paying people to consume goods... wouldn't that be cool!
    Last edited by sigma6; 14th September 2014 at 04:34.
    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time
    By faith we understand things which are seen were not made of the things which are visible

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to sigma6 For This Post:

    genevieve (14th September 2014)

  10. Link to Post #1127
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Lavrov hopes the world will learn the truth about the Boeing crash in Ukraine

    Russia September 13, 15:50 UTC+4

    Russia is surprised by a very calm tone of the report on the investigation of accident, he said


    © ITAR-TASS/EPA/ROBERT GHEMENT

    MOSCOW, September 13 /ITAR-TASS/. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov hopes that the world will ultimately learn the truth about the Boeing 777 crash in Ukraine.

    “I hope that we are going to learn this truth but that does not depend on me,” Lavrov told TV Tsentr's “Pravo Znat” (The Right to Know) programme.

    “Russia, its political leadership and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should constantly remind the world of the need to do that. It is not accidental that I cited the U.N. Security Council resolution (whose adoption we actively supported). What’s written in it must be implemented by all. Such is the nature of this document,” the Russian foreign minister said.

    “All the rest is in the hands of those who have been assigned with the task to conduct this investigation,” Lavrov added.

    He said that Malaysia’s Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein had visited Russia. "He has been to Ukraine and the Netherlands and is planning to visit Australia,” the Russian foreign minister went on to say.

    According to him, the Malaysians “want to get our assessments because they know about the preliminary conclusions the Russian Defense Ministry announced at a briefing on July 21; they want to discuss a list of questions formulated by the Federal Air Transport Agency and talk to experts.

    “We welcome this interest because there are no grounds to refuse from getting comprehensible answers or at least from discussing the questions which we have posed but which have so far remained unanswered,” Lavrov emphasized.

    Russia is preparing a new set of questions, Lavrov said.

    “International experts spent three weeks in Kiev, talking with the Ukrainian authorities. No answers were prepared in response to the questions raised after the catastrophe by the Russian Defence Ministry and the Air Transportation Agency. Our representative, who is a member of the international team of experts, is pointing out these ‘oddities’,” Lavrov told TV Tsentr’s Pravo Znat programme (The Right to Know).

    “We are preparing another set of questions from the Russian aviation authorities to identify issues that require urgent attention. On the whole, as I was told by experts who know how such investigations are conducted, many things that must have been done were not done. I don’t know why. Maybe some benefited from the situation where hysterical accusations were made against militias and Russia immediately after the accident,” the minister said.

    “All front pages of newspapers and primetime on television, the Internet were full of that. Now that this ‘propaganda foam’ has been removed, some may not be so eager to investigate the actual causes of the accident,” he said.

    “This is not our approach. We are probably the only [country] who keep reminding [the world] that there is U.N. Security Council Resolution 2166, which I mentioned before and which calls for an immediate cessation of fire in the area of the crash so that experts could get access. It also says that the investigation must be thorough, international, transparent and accountable,” Lavrov said.

    “As for the international nature [of the investigation], there seems to be a group of experts under the ICAO aegis, and the organisation is taking steps to begin multilateral discussions, but there is neither transparency nor accountability,” he said.

    “I am not saying that the U.N. Security Council should conduct the investigation, but it set forth political requirements that match the acuteness of the tragedy and its perception in the countries whose citizens were aboard the plane and the international community as a whole, for it was a commercial plane that was downed,” Lavrov said.

    Russia is surprised by “a very calm tone” of the report on the investigation of the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 accident and by its slow pace, Lavrov said.

    The Dutch Security Council’s report stated that the plane had fallen into pieces in midair presumably as a result of structural damage caused by external impact from numerous high-energy objects.

    “The report surprised us and even our specialists who understand these terms… mainly because despite so much fuss around this tragedy its tone is very calm and the work is going unhurriedly and leisurely. There have been no calls for resuming the work of experts at the crash site.

    There have been no attempts to go out there, collect the pieces and see how the whole plane looked like, and no one ever spoke about this out loud,” the minister told TV Tsentr’s Pravo Znat programme (The Right to Know).

    “There were many tales about Buks [surface-to-air missile systems],” Lavrov said, commenting on numerous media reports claiming that the system was used to down the plane.

    He said such allegations had been refuted. “They showed a Buk with a serial number that was moving around in the area controlled by Kiev’s army. And there are many other [alleged] facts that are not just far-fetched but actually a blatant lie,” Lavrov said.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  11. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    araucaria (15th September 2014), avid (18th September 2014), Cidersomerset (22nd September 2014), KiwiElf (11th October 2014), korgh (15th September 2014), Operator (15th September 2014), seko (14th November 2014)

  12. Link to Post #1128
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

    Thursday, September 18, 2014



    The original version of this post was published on the Oceania Saker Blog who spearheaded the effort to translate this most important document proving, if needed, that one can be down under and yet at the very top at the same time!

    The Saker
    -------
    Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

    This is an excellent detailed analysis of the MH17 tragedy by the Russian Union of Engineers which quite frankly illustrates how heavily censored the Dutch “report” is.

    We will let you digest this report and come to your own conclusion, which in all likelihood will explain the infamous high velocity projectiles whitewash pumped out by the western “press”.

    This review was undertaken by experts who not only know the subject matter but have objectively presented evidence that must be considered with the legitimacy that is inherent to it. Here is the overall description of the “Analytical Group” from the report:
    A group of experts from the Russian Union of engineers was convened to analyze the situation, including reserve officers with experience in the use of anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as pilots having experience with aircraft weapons.This problem was also discussed at a meeting of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, where many variants were tested and discussed again. In the course of their analysis the experts used materials derived from public sources, found in the media. The situation was also analyzed using a computer simulation of the Su-25.
    You can download the English version of the report here.

    The original Russian version of the report is here.
    [note: the links above point to documents in the proprietary M$ DOCX format. For those who, like myself might prefer the free ODT or PDF format, I have made them available here. The Saker]
    Official statement by the Russian Union of Engineers:
    (please press on the 'cc' button to see the English subtitles)


    Special mention, thanks and much gratitude goes to Alice, Gideon & Katya for their wonderful effort at such short notice.

    Disclaimer:

    We have translated the text to the best of our abilities and where unsure have included the original Russian. Additionally, the original Russian report is available for download for your reference. Please distribute freely with acknowledgement.

    AE
    Posted by VINEYARDSAKER: at 13:04
    Last edited by Hervé; 18th September 2014 at 21:18.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  13. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (18th September 2014), Cidersomerset (22nd September 2014), KiwiElf (11th October 2014), Operator (22nd September 2014), seko (14th November 2014), syrwong (14th November 2014), ThePythonicCow (20th September 2014)

  14. Link to Post #1129
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US ‘Intel’

    Saturday 20th September 2014 at 11:28 By david-icke



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Activist Post.....





    ‘The absence of America’s so-called “intelligence” regarding the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17
    over Ukraine in a 34-page Dutch Safety Board preliminary report raises serious questions about the
    credibility and legitimacy of both America’s political agenda, and all agencies, organizations, and
    political parties currently behind it.

    The report titled, “Preliminary Report: Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17″ (.pdf),
    cites a wide variety of evidence in its attempt to determine the cause of flight MH17′s crash and to prevent
    similar accidents or incidents from occurring again in the future. Among this evidence includes the cockpit
    voice recorder (CVR), the flight data recorder (FDR), analysis of recorded air traffic control (ATC) surveillance
    data and radio communication, analysis of the meteorological circumstances, forensic examination of the
    wreckage (if recovered and possible foreign objects if found), results of the pathological investigation, and
    analysis of the in-flight break up sequence.’

    Read more: Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US 'Intel'

    http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/...-us-intel.html
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 22nd September 2014 at 09:14.

  15. Link to Post #1130
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    On the other hand, regarding that same report:

    Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US “Intel”




    The absence of America’s so-called “intelligence” regarding the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over Ukraine in a 34 page Dutch Safety Board preliminary report raises serious questions about the credibility and legitimacy of both America’s political agenda, and all agencies, organizations, and political parties currently behind it.

    The report titled, “Preliminary Report: Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17″ (.pdf), cites a wide variety of evidence in its attempt to determine the cause of flight MH17′s crash and to prevent similar accidents or incidents from occurring again in the future. Among this evidence includes the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), the flight data recorder (FDR), analysis of recorded air traffic control (ATC) surveillance data and radio communication, analysis of the meteorological circumstances, forensic examination of the wreckage (if recovered and possible foreign objects if found), results of the pathological investigation, and analysis of the in-flight break up sequence.

    Satellite images are referenced in regards to analyzing the crash site after the disaster, however, no where in the report is mentioned any evidence whatsoever of satellite images of missile launchers, intelligence from the United States regarding missile launches, or any information or evidence at all in any regard suggesting a missile had destroyed MH17. In fact, the report concludes by stating:
    This report is preliminary. The information must necessarily be regarded as tentative and subject to alteration or correction if additional evidence becomes available. Further work will at least include the following areas of interest to substantiate the factual information regarding:
    • detailed analyses of data, including CVR, FDR and other sources, recorded onboard the aircraft;
    • detailed analyses of recorded ATC surveillance data and radio communication;
    • detailed analyses of the meteorological circumstances;
    • forensic examination of wreckage if recovered and possible foreign objects, if found;
    • results of the pathological investigation;
    • analyses of the in-flight break up sequence;
    • assessment of the operator’s and State of Occurrence’s management of flight safety over a region of conflict or high security risk;
    • any other areas that are identified during the investigation.
    With the black boxes in hand and a wealth of data from multiple sources both onboard the aircraft and from the ground in both Ukraine and Russia, the Dutch Safety Board was still hesitant to draw any conclusions and insisted that none be jumped to.

    The report specifically mentions information collected from Russia, including air traffic control and radar data – both of which were publicly shared by Russia in the aftermath of the disaster. The report also cites data collected from Ukraine air traffic controllers. The United States however, apart from providing technical information about the aircraft itself considering it was manufactured in the US, provided absolutely no data in any regard according to the report.

    Missing US Intel Points to Fabrications



    Had the US actually possessed any credible information to substantiate its claims that MH17 was shot down by a missile, such evidence surely would have been submitted to and included in the Dutch Safety Board’s preliminary reporting. That it is predictably missing confirms what commentators, analysts, and politicians around the world had long since suspected – the West’s premature conclusions regarding MH17′s demise were driven by a political agenda, not a factually based search for the truth. The evidence that MH17 was shot down by a missile as the West insisted is missing because it never existed in the first place.


    That the Dutch Safety Board possesses such a vast amount of information but is still unable to draw anything but the most tentative conclusions, exposes the alleged certainty of Western pundits and politicians in the hours and days after MH17′s loss as an utterly irresponsible, politically motivated, exploitation of tragedy at best, and at worst, exposing the West – NATO in particular – as possible suspects in a crime they clearly stood the most to benefit from.

    Fabrications Establish Motive
    In the wake of the MH17 tragedy, the West would rush through a series of sanctions against Russia as well as justify further military aid for the regime in Kiev, Ukraine and the literal Neo-Nazi militant battalions serving its pro-Western agenda amid a brutal civil war raging in the country’s eastern most provinces. With sanctions in hand, and the war raging on in earnest, the MH17 disaster dropped entirely out of Western narratives as if it never occurred. Surely if the West had solid evidence implicating eastern Ukrainian rebels and/or Russia, the world would never have heard the end of the MH17 disaster until the truth was fully aired before the public.

    When Dutch investigators published their preliminary report, the West merely reiterated its original claims, simply imposing their contradictory nature upon the report – most likely believing the public would never actually read its 34 pages.

    For example, Reuters in a report titled, “Malaysia: Dutch report suggests MH-17 shot down from ground,” would brazenly claim:
    Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke apart over Ukraine due to impact from a large number of fragments, the Dutch Safety Board said on Tuesday, in a report that Malaysia’s prime minister and several experts said suggested it was shot down from the ground.
    The title of Reuters’ propaganda piece directly contradicts its first paragraph which reveals “experts,” not the actual Dutch Safety Board report, claimed it was “shot down from the ground,” while the report itself says nothing of the sort. The experts cited by Reuters in fact had no association whatsoever with the preliminary report and instead are the same mainstay of cherry picked commentators the West constantly defers to while building up and perpetuating utterly fabricated narratives to advance its agenda globally.

    The lesson to be learned from the MH17 disaster is that real investigations and their subsequent conclusions take time – weeks or even months. Anyone drawing immediate conclusions within hours or days after an event like the MH17 disaster are exploiting tragedy at best, and at worst implicate themselves as suspects having created it in the first place to serve as impetus for further chaos, conflict, and confusion.

    Those incapable of resisting the need to jump to conclusions are those who are least suitable to lead. The United States, United Kingdom, and the European Union have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are at best tasteless, irresponsible, politically motivated exploiters of human tragedy, and at worst, the prime suspects of a heinous act of mass murder aimed at perpetuating their agenda of war and carnage in Ukraine and beyond.

    Tony Cartalucci, Bangkok-based geopolitical researcher and writer, especially for the online magazine New Eastern Outlook”.
    First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2014/09/19/du...mits-us-intel/

    *******************************************

    I mentioned earlier a statistical improbability:

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Now that we "know," according to that preliminary report, that there was nothing unusual along the flight, whether it be from ATC exchanges, CVR or FDR; the end result defies all statistics:

    How come a SAM or AAM could disable a 4 X redundant Fly By Wire automatic system all at once... unless sabotaged?
    Both CVR and FDR shutdown at the same time which implies that the power to both got cut off at the same time and, although I do not yet know the configuration of a 777 power connection to these devices, I suspect some redundancy for these as well, I would deem this to be another statistical miracle of a winning lottery ticket!

    Especially since there are as yet no evidence for 20-30 mm fighter-jet's cannon gunning (see this post <---) which would also involve alternate incendiary-explosive rounds to compare with lack of traces of fire from pieces of the cockpit...
    Last edited by Hervé; 21st September 2014 at 17:00.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  16. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (9th October 2014), Cidersomerset (22nd September 2014), KiwiElf (11th October 2014), seko (14th November 2014), Sidney (21st September 2014), Sophocles (21st September 2014)

  17. Link to Post #1131
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    NewsTeam: MH17 tragedy brings back Ukraine to headlines (E30)




    Published on 21 Sep 2014


    Seven RT correspondents. Seven of the biggest news stories around the world.
    In News Team, an award-winning documentary crew traverses the globe, keeping
    up with the channel’s leading reporters as they cover the stand-off in Ukraine,
    the war in Syria, and the machinations in the EU’s corridors of power.

    News Team is not just a privileged view into how the news is made, but also
    provides unflinching insight into the personal lives of those who make it. After
    watching News Team, no RT broadcast will ever seem the same.

    The 20-part series was independently filmed by Emmy-nominated Josh Silberman.
    Named Producer of the Year by the Producers’ Guild of America in 2011, Silberman
    has been a key figure on leading US shows Fear Factor, America’s Got Talent, and
    Dancing with the Stars. He has also produced acclaimed extreme series Deadliest
    Catch and Ice Road Truckers, but says News Team is the most “extreme, real
    and unpredictable” show he has ever been a part of.

    RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 22nd September 2014 at 09:17.

  18. Link to Post #1132
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    This report is similar to above post......

    Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US ‘Intel’

    Saturday 20th September 2014 at 11:28 By david-icke



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Activist Post.....





    ‘The absence of America’s so-called “intelligence” regarding the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17
    over Ukraine in a 34-page Dutch Safety Board preliminary report raises serious questions about the
    credibility and legitimacy of both America’s political agenda, and all agencies, organizations, and
    political parties currently behind it.

    The report titled, “Preliminary Report: Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17″ (.pdf),
    cites a wide variety of evidence in its attempt to determine the cause of flight MH17′s crash and to prevent
    similar accidents or incidents from occurring again in the future. Among this evidence includes the cockpit
    voice recorder (CVR), the flight data recorder (FDR), analysis of recorded air traffic control (ATC) surveillance
    data and radio communication, analysis of the meteorological circumstances, forensic examination of the
    wreckage (if recovered and possible foreign objects if found), results of the pathological investigation, and
    analysis of the in-flight break up sequence.’

    Read more: Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US 'Intel'

    http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/...-us-intel.html

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    KiwiElf (11th October 2014)

  20. Link to Post #1133
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    This is a interesting doc/article of the RT news team response to the initial
    breaking reports of the attack on the plane and the response of the
    journalism team and how the investigative journalist tries to get to
    the crash site, and shows his fears , anxiety and professionalism ........

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    NewsTeam: MH17 tragedy brings back Ukraine to headlines (E30)




    Published on 21 Sep 2014


    Seven RT correspondents. Seven of the biggest news stories around the world.
    In News Team, an award-winning documentary crew traverses the globe, keeping
    up with the channel’s leading reporters as they cover the stand-off in Ukraine,
    the war in Syria, and the machinations in the EU’s corridors of power.

    News Team is not just a privileged view into how the news is made, but also
    provides unflinching insight into the personal lives of those who make it. After
    watching News Team, no RT broadcast will ever seem the same.

    The 20-part series was independently filmed by Emmy-nominated Josh Silberman.
    Named Producer of the Year by the Producers’ Guild of America in 2011, Silberman
    has been a key figure on leading US shows Fear Factor, America’s Got Talent, and
    Dancing with the Stars. He has also produced acclaimed extreme series Deadliest
    Catch and Ice Road Truckers, but says News Team is the most “extreme, real
    and unpredictable” show he has ever been a part of.

    RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

  21. Link to Post #1134
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Theres a old British saying that is dated now due to more
    modern media , and health and safety ,but the theme
    is the same.....

    ' Yesterdays news is tomorrows fish & chip wrapper '





    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is a very good report, and shows the west/Ukraine psyop failed and
    they are moving on to ISIL and the middle East. Though it does not
    mean the NATO/RUSSIA goading has finished.....




    Quote Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

    Thursday, September 18, 2014
    The original version of this post was published on the Oceania Saker Blog who
    spearheaded the effort to translate this most important document proving, if
    needed, that one can be down under and yet at the very top at the same time!
    The Saker
    -------
    Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 22nd September 2014 at 23:53.

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    avid (9th October 2014), KiwiElf (11th October 2014), seko (14th November 2014)

  23. Link to Post #1135
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    From main thread.....https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...680#post879680



    Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?



    Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

    Thursday, September 18, 2014


    The original version of this post was published on the Oceania Saker Blog who
    spearheaded the effort to translate this most important document proving, if
    needed, that one can be down under and yet at the very top at the same time!

    The Saker
    -------
    Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

    This is an excellent detailed analysis of the MH17 tragedy by the Russian
    Union of Engineers which quite frankly illustrates how heavily censored the
    Dutch “report” is.

    We will let you digest this report and come to your own conclusion, which in
    all likelihood will explain the infamous high velocity projectiles whitewash
    pumped out by the western “press”.

    This review was undertaken by experts who not only know the subject matter
    but have objectively presented evidence that must be considered with the
    legitimacy that is inherent to it. Here is the overall description of the
    “Analytical Group” from the report:

    A group of experts from the Russian Union of engineers was convened to
    analyze the situation, including reserve officers with experience in the use
    of anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as pilots having experience with
    aircraft weapons.This problem was also discussed at a meeting of the
    Academy of Geopolitical Problems, where many variants were tested and
    discussed again. In the course of their analysis the experts used materials
    derived from public sources, found in the media. The situation was also
    analyzed using a computer simulation of the Su-25.
    You can download the English version of the report here.

    The original Russian version of the report is here.

    [note: the links above point to documents in the proprietary M$ DOCX format. For
    those who, like myself might prefer the free ODT or PDF format, I have made them
    available here. The Saker]

    Official statement by the Russian Union of Engineers:
    (please press on the 'cc' button to see the English subtitles)



  24. The Following User Says Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    animovado (22nd September 2014)

  25. Link to Post #1136
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Exxon Winds Down Drilling as US Sanctions Hit Russia

    Monday 22nd September 2014 at 08:05 By david-icke




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    ‘ExxonMobil said on Friday it will wind down drilling in Russia’s Arctic in the face of
    U.S. sanctions targeting Western cooperation with Moscow’s oil sector, after the
    Obama administration granted a brief extension to safely mothball its operations.

    Washington extended sanctions on Russia last week over its aggression in Ukraine.
    The new measures seek to stop billions of dollars worth of cooperation between
    Western and Russian energy companies on oil drilling in Russia’s Arctic, in Siberia
    and offshore. Companies have until Sept. 26 to stop the work.’

    Read more: Exxon Winds Down Drilling as US Sanctions Hit Russia

    http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-e...s/2456136.html
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 22nd September 2014 at 23:51.

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cidersomerset For This Post:

    KiwiElf (11th October 2014), seko (14th November 2014)

  27. Link to Post #1137
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Malaysia Airlines MH17 passenger found with oxygen mask on — Dutch FM

    World
    October 09, 11:33 UTC+4

    Quote The latest finding questions the earlier theory that the 298 victims on board the tragic flight had been killed instantly



    THE HAGUE, October 9. /TASS/. One of those killed in the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine had an oxygen mask on when the body was recovered, Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans said on Thursday.

    The latest finding questions the earlier theory that the 298 victims on board the tragic flight had been killed instantly and indicates that they may have remained conscious after the Boeing aircraft was shot down.

    “People hardly had time to notice the missile coming, but do you know that one of the victims was found with an oxygen mask over the mouth?” the HOC TV channel quoted the minister as saying. “This means that someone had time to do that. At least, we cannot rule out this possibility,” Timmermans said.

    Full article: http://en.itar-tass.com/world/753427
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  28. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (9th October 2014), KiwiElf (11th October 2014), Limor Wolf (19th November 2014), seko (14th November 2014), Sophocles (10th October 2014)

  29. Link to Post #1138
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Brief analysis of the above and how important and significant that "detail" really is:

    • means that oxygen masks were released, implies there was power to do that
    • means that depressurization was detected, implies power was available to do that
    • available power is in direct contradiction with both CVR and FDR shutting off at the same time without recording anything
    See?
    Last edited by Hervé; 10th October 2014 at 12:29.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  30. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (10th October 2014), Cidersomerset (10th October 2014), KiwiElf (11th October 2014), Limor Wolf (19th November 2014), seko (14th November 2014), Sophocles (10th October 2014), Sunny-side-up (10th October 2014)

  31. Link to Post #1139
    UK Avalon Member Cidersomerset's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th May 2011
    Location
    Bridgwater somerset UK
    Age
    63
    Posts
    22,333
    Thanks
    33,460
    Thanked 79,637 times in 18,693 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    You reminded me I did see the report on BBC news page yesterday...

    9 October 2014 Last updated at 17:15

    MH17 crash: Dutch minister says passenger 'wore oxygen mask'



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29548942

  32. Link to Post #1140
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    MH17 victims' families plan legal action against Dutch state

    Friday 10 October 2014
    Several relatives of people killed in the MH17 plane crash are considering suing the Dutch state for negligence over its handling of the tragedy, the Telegraaf says on Friday.

    Remarks about one of the victims wearing an oxygen mask made by foreign affairs minister Frans Timmermans on television earlier this week were ‘the final straw’ for some relatives, the paper says.

    Relatives who had taken comfort in the fact their relatives had not suffered were shocked by the revelations. ‘We did not know. This should never have happened,’ one relative told the paper.

    Investigation
    A group representing some of the victims' families is now planning to take legal action against the state.

    ‘In addition, there has been no proper investigation of the crash site,’ said lawyer Bob van der Groen. ‘The Netherlands must ensure there are safety guarantees. We hold the state responsible for immaterial damages.’

    Timmermans said he deeply regrets his statement and has apologised to the families.

    © DutchNews.nl
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  33. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    avid (11th October 2014), KiwiElf (11th October 2014), Sophocles (20th October 2014)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 57 of 69 FirstFirst 1 7 47 57 67 69 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts