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Thread: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Still no answers: Dutch MPs slam team
    investigating MH17 for lack of trasparency



    Published on 16 Oct 2017
    A number of Dutch lawmakers are angry over a lack of transparency in
    the investigation into the downing of flight MH17, the plane tragically
    shot down over Ukraine back in 2014. MPs in the Netherlands say the
    Dutch Investigation team heading the probe are withholding potentially
    vital information.

    RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Dutch investigators finally collaborate with Russia on MH17

    By Dmitry Sedov via Oriental Review
    Mon, 04 Sep 2017 08:37 UTC



    In late August Russia handed over decoded radar data to the Netherlands from the aerial zone where Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down on July 17, 2014. These materials had initially been provided in their original, i.e., non-decoded form, along with the software needed to decode them.

    However, the Dutch investigators, despite being armed with the latest in modern technology as well as the assistance of their British colleagues, were not able to decode the recordings, and in the end they asked Russian experts to do it. In three years this has been the only time they have asked to collaborate. Never before had the commission accepted any Russian offers of assistance.

    The decoded recordings clearly showed that the missile had been fired from the zone controlled by the Ukrainian military. And this is not some fabricated story concocted by journalists, but documented, technical information.


    Estimated distance to Flight MH-17 from the Ukrainian-controlled BUK launcher in Zaroshchenskoe at the moment of attack (less than 30km) lies within the operational range, unlike one, presumably operated by the Donbass militia.

    However, every sign seems to indicate that the decoded information obtained from Russia will not be included in the case file, but will instead face the fate of so much other data that does not fit neatly into the preferred version of the investigation. It will probably just fall into a black hole, which is what happened to the photos of the tragedy that were taken by American spy satellites.

    In the meantime however, it will not be easy for the investigators to stick to their prescribed approach to the investigation. Independent experts are conscientiously suggesting new avenues of inquiry that could help move the process along.

    For example, since all of the Ukrainian army's existing launch sites for its Buk-M1 missile-defense system can be accounted for and examined by the commission, it would be a simple enough matter to establish whether at least one of them was used to fire the missile. An inspection of the 60 existing launch sites within this system is both physically possible and could provide some surprising information. The launch of a Buk-M1 missile leaves indelible "burns" on the ramp that cannot be concealed, even under a new coat of paint. Although that would seem to be a very simple suggestion, it's a significant one.


    Kees van der Pijl

    Kees van der Pijl, a Dutch professor in the Department of International Relations at the University of Sussex and the president of the NGO The Committee of Vigilance Against Resurgent Fascism, recently finished writing a book titled "The Launch: Flight MH17, Ukraine and New Cold War" (Der Abschuss: Flug MH17, die Ukraine und der neue Kalte Krieg). The German-language version of the book will go on sale later this month, and the English original and Portuguese translation will be available by the end of the year.

    Professor van der Pijl examines the tragedy from a geopolitical perspective and asks: who benefited most from this disaster? And he answers: the US, which subsequently imposed sanctions against Russia, undermining its gas industry and checking its growing role on the international stage.

    Specifically, the professor cites the following arguments:

    - One day before the tragedy, the BRICS nations signed an agreement to establish their own bank, which the US saw as a rival to the IMF and World Bank.

    - Vladimir Putin and Angela Merkel had settled on a new conceptual framework for resolving the crisis in Ukraine - without US input - and real progress was being made.

    - In addition, once the Boeing 777 was downed, American gas companies were suddenly able to find the traction to kick-start their work in Europe and force Russia out of the EU market. Moscow was forced to abandon the construction of the South Stream gas pipeline, and relations with the government in Kiev, which subsequently became a pawn in the games played by the West, definitively soured.

    Not a single European or American media outlet has reacted to the announcement of the book's publication and its path onto the shelves of bookstores is unlikely to be an easy one. However, times are changing, and many people are taking an interest in and flocking to Professor van der Pijl's blog, Der Abschuss Flug MH17, which provides information about the publication of the book as well as links to his sources.

    Using the materials available to them, the authors of the blog intend to shed light on the absurd inconsistencies evident during the investigation, as well as the investigators' stubborn reluctance to answer awkward questions. Some known examples are:

    - How could Ukrainian President Poroshenko, who announced the tragedy 15 minutes after it occured, have known that the Boeing 777 had been shot down by a Russian Buk missile?

    - Why does the investigative commission not take into account the results of the experimental destruction of a retired passenger airliner by the company Almaz Antey, while also refusing to take part in a second experiment?

    - What prompted Ukrainian dispatchers to alter MH17's flight path right before tragedy struck?

    We shall soon see whether officials will block the distribution of the book and what the consequences of that might be. But events could take an interesting turn. As a result of Professor van der Pijl's efforts, we will learn the price of not only the work of the Dutch commission investigating the tragic fate of flight MH17, but the European democracy and European justice as well...

    The publication is based on Dmitry Sedov's article by Strategic Culture Foundation (in Russian), adapted and translated by ORIENTAL REVIEW.


    Related:
    New Russian radar data shows no missile attack on MH17 from rebel side, indicates Ukraine involvement

    MH17 'truth enforcers' throwing West's version of events onto deceived public

    Russian aviation official: Moscow provided Dutch Safety Board with MH17 radar data but evidence was ignored
    Last edited by Hervé; 13th November 2017 at 12:34.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?



    MH17 crash: Ukraine pilot blamed by Russia 'kills himself'

    2 hrs ago ...19/3/18



    Capt Voloshyn pictured at Mykolaiv airbase in 2016

    A Ukrainian military pilot blamed by Russia over the 2014 downing
    of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 has killed himself with a pistol shot,
    Ukrainian media report, quoting police.

    Capt Vladyslav Voloshyn had condemned the Russian claim as a lie.
    Dutch investigators concluded that a Russian Buk missile had
    destroyed the Boeing 777 jet, killing 298 people.Reports say
    Voloshyn shot himself at home in Mykolaiv, near the Black Sea.

    Ukraine described him as a war hero.He had flown 33 combat
    missions in a low-flying Su-25 ground attack jet against
    Russian-backed separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine.

    read more...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43457694

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  7. Link to Post #1124
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    What else does one expect from the BBC...

    On the other hand:

    Pilot suspected of shooting down MH17 commits suicide

    Inessa Sinchougova
    Fort Russ
    Tue, 20 Mar 2018 08:25 UTC



    Ukrainian pilot Vladislav Voloshin, whom his colleague Yevgeny Agapov accused of involvement in the shooting down of Boeing 777 flight MH17, has committed suicide in Nikolaev.

    Please note that Western mainstream media are specifically running the story as "Pilot, who was accused by Russia..." The allegations came from his colleague, who then was forced to leave Ukraine for Russia.

    As reported by Ukrainian media, Voloshin shot himself from a Makarov pistol. Doctors tried to save the pilot, but he died in hospital.

    According to the relatives of the deceased, in recent days Voloshin was in a depressed state, spoke about troubles at work and expressed disturbing thoughts. A criminal case was instituted in accordance with Part 1 of Art. 115 Criminal Code "Intentional homicide" - this article was chosen because of the peculiarities of the investigation procedure.

    Since January 2018, Voloshin has headed the Mykolaiv International Airport. The previous director was detained while trying to bribe a governor, but the Ukrainian media repeatedly reported that he refused to sign illegal documentation. Voloshin signed these papers immediately after his appointment to the post of acting director.

    Two days after the MH17 disaster, Voloshin was awarded the Order of Courage of the Ukrainian air force. According to the testimony of Evgeny Agapov, who escaped to Russia, the Boeing 777 aircraft was allegedly shot down by an Su-25 of the Ukrainian Air Force, piloted by the aforementioned pilot:
    "A combat mission was carried out from an airfield in the city of Dnipropetrovsk."
    According to his testimony, he personally saw how Voloshin's aircraft was equipped with air-to-air missiles of the R-60 type before departure, which the Su-25 is not normally equipped with.


    Related:
    Could this be? Meet the pilot who shot down Malaysian Boeing MH-17
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?




    MH17 missile owned by Russian brigade, investigators say

    24/5/18

    The missile that downed a Malaysia Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine in 2014
    belonged to a Russian brigade, international investigators say.For the first time,
    the Dutch-led team said the missile had come from a unit based in western Russia.
    All 298 people on board the Boeing 777 died when it broke apart in mid-air flying
    from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.It was hit by a missile fired from rebel-held
    territory in Ukraine. Russia says none of its weapons was used.

    But on Thursday Wilbert Paulissen, a Dutch official from the Joint Investigation Team
    (JIT), told reporters: "All the vehicles in a convoy carrying the missile were part of
    the Russian armed forces." He restated the JIT's conclusion that the plane had been
    destroyed by a Russian-made Buk missile, adding that it had been supplied by the
    country's 53rd anti-aircraft brigade in Kursk.At a news conference in the Dutch city
    of Utrecht, the investigators also showed social media pictures which they said traced
    the route the missile convoy had taken to reach eastern Ukraine.

    read more....



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44235402

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    No Russian missile system ever crossed into Ukraine: MoD rejects Dutch MH17 claims

    RT
    Published time: 24 May, 2018 14:07
    Edited time: 24 May, 2018 16:08
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    FILE PHOTO. A piece of the wreckage at a crash site of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. © Maxim Zmeyev / Reuters

    The Russian Defense Ministry has rejected new claims that flight MH17 over Ukraine was downed by a missile from a Russian unit, urging the Dutch-led probe to focus on studying hard facts instead of social media images.

    “Not a single anti-aircraft missile system of the Russian Armed Forces has ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border,” the defense ministry said in statement.

    The Russian military raised eyebrows over “the determination of the Dutch-led investigation to justifying its conclusions by solely using images from social networks that have been expertly altered with computer graphic editing tools.”

    The ministry pointed out that the images used in the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) press conference on Thursday were provided by the Ukrainian special services and had been previously displayed by the infamous British online investigative activist group, Bellingcat.

    The Dutch-led probe announced that the missile that downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in July 2014 came from a Russian military Buk system that crossed into Ukraine and then returned to its base in western Russia.

    Investigators claim the missile system involved came from “the 53rd Anti-aircraft Missile Brigade based in Kursk in Russia”. The JIT essentially just repeated the conclusion made by Bellingcat a year ago.

    The alarming part in the JIT probe is that “the Dutch investigators completely ignore and reject the testimony of eyewitnesses from the nearby Ukrainian communities”, according to the Defense Ministry. The testimonies, however, provided essential information “indicating the launch of a missile was carried out from a territory controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.”

    The Russian side said that it provided the international probe with “comprehensive” evidence, including field tests, which “clearly indicate the involvement of the Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft system units” in the destruction of the plane with 283 passengers and 15 crew members onboard.

    The untampered radar data, which was also passed on by Russia to the Dutch-led investigation, “didn’t establish any aerial objects approaching the passenger Boeing from the western side,” it added.

    If the international investigating team is really interested in establishing the true culprits of the MH17 crash "its representatives should rely in their statements primarily on facts and witness testimony instead of products by fakemakers from Bellingcat or the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine),” the Defense Ministry concluded.

    With Russian military and authorities insisting they had nothing to do with the downing of MH17 on numerous occasions, Bellingcat’s reports have also been refuted by aviation experts, journalists and online activists.

    Among other things, Bellingcat’s claims that Ukrainian forces had no Buk systems in the conflict area in the east of the country were also overturned by a plethora of Ukrainian media reports, with photos of Kiev’s Buk systems in the region, provided by the online activists.

    The UK group’s assertion that the Buk missile was fired from an area controlled by the self-defense forces of the People’s Republic of Donetsk was also questioned as they were based on maps from the Ukrainian military and Ukrainian online map services, criticized for lacking accuracy.

    Meanwhile, the Dutch journalists, who visited the MH17 crash site last year, have raised questions about the thoroughness of the JIT probe as they said a lot of debris from the aircraft, and what they identified as body parts, remained uncollected by investigators. Suspicions were further raised after they had everything collected in eastern Ukraine, along with their cellphones and laptops, confiscated by the Dutch police shortly after returning to the Netherlands.


    Related:
    Accusations and threats, but where are the facts? – Russia challenges West on truth

    Dutch journalists criticize MH17 probe results after finding ‘many pieces’ still at crash site
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    For once that the BBC reported something relevant... The British Ministry of Truth played the "now you see me, now you don't" game with it:


    Deleted BBC News report on MH17: Local witnesses of the incident believe fighter jets brought it down

    BBC
    Sun, 22 Jul 2018 12:58 UTC




    Posted by Max van der Werff on Vimeo.




    Related:
    Why is Russia Being Blamed For The Downing of Flight MH17 - Again?
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Serial numbers of missile that downed MH17 show it was produced in 1986, owned by Ukraine - Russia

    RT
    Published time: 17 Sep, 2018 09:05
    Edited time: 17 Sep, 2018 11:33
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    File photo. Dutch experts at the crash site of flight MH17 in 2014. © Aleksey Kudenko / Sputnik

    The serial numbers found on debris of the Buk missile which downed Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine show it was produced in 1986, the Russian military said. The projectile was owned by Ukraine, they added.

    There are two serial numbers found on fragments of the missile, which shot down the passenger airliner in June 2014 according to an international team of investigators led by the Netherlands. The numbers were marked on the engine and the nozzle of the missile.

    The Russian military on Monday said they had traced them to a missile which had the producer serial number 8868720.


    Speaking to journalists, Gen. Nikolay Parshin showed a document trail of the Buk missile. According to the documents, some of which have been declassified for the presentation, it was produced at a military plant in Dolgoprudny in the Moscow region in 1986.


    Serial number on engine and nozzle of the missile.

    The missile was shipped from the plant on December 29, 1986 and delivered to military unit 20152 located in what is now Ukraine. It is now called 223rd anti-aircraft defense regiment of the Ukrainian armed forces, the report said. The unit took part in Kiev's crackdown on rebels in eastern Ukraine in June 2014, the general said.

    The evidence disproves the accusations by Ukraine and some other parties, which claim that a missile fired by a launcher, secretly delivered from Russia, was responsible for the downing of MH17, the Ministry of Defense report said. All the materials have been sent to the Dutch investigators, the Russian military added.


    MIssilye shipment records found in Russia.

    The Russian military also challenges video footage used by the UK-based group Bellingcat, which calls itself a citizen journalism organization, to back its allegations about the delivery of the Buk launcher from Russia. The Defense Ministry showed a video clip with some of the footage, highlighting inconsistencies, which it said proved that the footage had been manipulated to place images of the launcher into background which were not in the original.

    The Bellingcat investigation was featured in the latest update by Dutch prosecutors involved in the MH17 investigation, prompting the Russian military to study it in detail, they said. The Russian video showed an example of how an Abrams tank can be shown to be carried by a trailer in the streets of Ukraine in the same way.


    Analysis of Bellingcat footage by Russian experts.

    The third part of the presentation was what the Russian officials called a record of intercepted communications of Ukrainian officials discussing, in 2016, the risk of flying through restricted airspace over Ukraine. Among a barrage of complaints one phrase says unless the restrictions are respected "we'll f***ing f**k up another Malaysian Boeing".

    The Russian military say the complaints came from Col. Ruslan Grinchak, who serves in a brigade responsible for radar control of the Ukrainian airspace. His unit tracked the MH17 flight in 2014, so he may have information which is not publicly available about the disaster.



    Information on a Col. Ruslan Grinchak shown by the Russian military.

    Gen. Igor Konashenkov, who hosted the briefing, said that Ukraine failed to provide radar data from its stations to the Dutch investigators. He also suggested that archive documents from the Ukrainian unit, which received the Buk missile back in 1986, would be of use to the probe, unless Kiev claims that they are no longer available. He stressed rules are in place which mean that such documents should still be stored in Ukraine.

    The Russian military said they had no evidence to disprove a scenario, involving the Ukrainian rebels capturing the missile from the Ukrainian army, but pointed out that Ukrainian officials publicly denied anything like this had ever happened.

    Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, falling in the rebel-held part of the country. The crash claimed the lives of 283 passengers and 15 crew members, most of them Dutch nationals. Russia was blamed by Western media in the first days after the tragedy, even before any evidence had been collected on the ground.

    The Joint Investigation Team, which is lead by the Netherlands, includes Ukraine, but not Russia. Moscow believes that the investigation is biased, failing to obtain all necessary evidence from Ukraine and relying on questionable sources while ignoring evidence provided by Russia, which doesn't fit the theory favored by Kiev and its foreign sponsors.

    Related:
    Moscow can’t accept ‘unfounded conclusions’ on MH17 downing – Russia’s UN envoy
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    MH17: Ukraine's guilt decisively proven?

    Eric Zuesse Strategic Culture Foundation
    Tue, 01 Jan 2019 20:43 UTC



    Finally, a clear and convincing - and unrefuted - case can now be presented to the public, as to precisely whom the guilty party was, that downed the MH17 Malaysian airliner over Ukraine on 17 July 2014, and why it was done. The complete case, which will be fully documented here, displays unequivocally who needed the MH17 murders (of 298 persons) to be perpetrated. This mass-murder was done for one leader's very pressing obsession. For him, it simply had to be done, and done at that precise time.

    The full MH17 case will be presented here, to be judged by the public, because no court of law which possesses the power to bring this (or even any) case on the MH17 murders, is willing to do so, and because the evidence in this 17 July 2014 case has become overwhelming, and is unrefuted. This evidence is accepted by both sides. But it still remains effectively hidden from the publics in the United States and its allied countries. (The present news-report, which is the first ever to present this entire case, is submitted to all news-media in English-speaking countries, so that any of them that wishes to provide its audience access to this uncontested and conclusive evidence in the MH17 case can do so, by publishing this article. Any of them that won't, don't want their audience to have access to the conclusive evidence in this case, because this article is being made available to all of them to publish, free of charge; so, there is no other reason not to publish it.)

    The complete evidence will be described, and all of the conclusive evidence is linked-to, proving who perpetrated, and who demanded, the shoot-down on 17 July 2014 of the Malaysian airliner MH17.

    This article will start by demonstrating the most important thing, and will demonstrate it by means of links to the most conclusive evidence of all. This is the evidence which absolutely proves that the official Netherlands-headed investigation into this matter is an intentional and utter fraud - a fraud which has already been conclusively answered and exposed by the Russian Government. (Netherlands headed the investigation because 196 of the 298 murder-victims were Dutch.) Russia's response provided, in excruciating detail, not only clear disproofs of the Netherlands-headed investigation's conclusions of Russian guilt, but also (and on the basis of the very same evidence that the official investigation had made public on 24 May 2018) provided the still-unrefuted (but nonetheless still effectively hidden) proofs of Ukraine's actual and incontestable guilt, in this mass-murder. This evidence, of the Netherlands team's fraudulence, carries the investigation a large part of the way toward its ultimate conclusion, regarding whom the person was who had demanded Ukraine to commit this crime.

    Incidentally, the Netherlands Government had partially funded the coup that in February 2014 overturned Ukraine's Government and installed the new regime, which regime is allied with the United States Government and actually perpetrated the MH17 shoot-down. The Government of Netherlands is not a neutral in this case that it is judging. It had helped install the present regime in Ukraine. In fact, as you can see here, Netherlands' Government had been the largest single contributor to Ukraine's Hromadske TV, which was propagandizing to exterminate the residents in Ukraine's former Donbass region, which breakaway region had voted over 90% for Ukraine's Democratically elected President, whom Obama's coup had just overthrown. This operation in Ukraine is an extension from the corrupt Nazi Prince Bernhard's having established in Netherlands in 1954 the secretive Bilderberg group to coordinate NATO's efforts for the US and its allies to conquer ultimately the world. He got caught in 1976, for one of his skimming operations, a million-dollar kickback from Lockheed Corporation. Holland's Deep State is anything but benign.


    Hromadske TV is financed directly by US and Dutch embassies.

    So, Russia's response, on 17 September 2018, used that Netherlands-headed team's own documentation, to disprove that team's attribution of guilt to Russia, and to prove conclusively Ukraine's guilt as having been the actual perpetrator of this mass-murder. Thus, the Netherlands-headed team includes the actual perpetrator, Ukraine, and not only the Netherlands Government, which had helped overthrow Ukraine's prior and democratically elected Government and bring Ukraine's current regime into power in February 2014, just months prior to the MH17 shoot-down, which resulted from that US coup.

    Most readers who click onto the links here will be shocked. What will shock them is the evidence, because it has not been published in The West (except summarized in less than a half-dozen obscure news-media - and, even there, generally not documented, such as it is here).

    The links will document and fully prove this stunning turnabout, from Russia to Ukraine. The documentation that was cited by Ukraine and Ukraine's fellow team-member (the team's leader) Netherlands, against Russia, on May 24th of 2018, contained previously unrecognized details (which were first pointed out in the Russian presentation on September 17th of 2018) which irrefutably convict Ukraine. Consequently, Russia's response was ignored in The West, despite that presentation's having been based upon the very same items of evidence that had been introduced by the Netherlands-led team on May 24th. Thus, the items of evidence, there, are the same that the Netherlands-led team had themselves provided. The items of evidence here are not in dispute.

    The current article will be the first-ever to hone-in on the especially shocking key data in Russia's data-packed September 17th response, the key evidence that Russia was calling attention to there, and which prove Ukraine's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt - prove it on the basis of the very same evidence that had been introduced by Ukraine's own team in their presentation four months earlier. Using the other side's evidence to convict that other side is what makes this denouement the stunning turnabout that it is.

    The Netherlands-headed Ukrainian team still refuses to answer the Russian presentation, which responds to the Ukrainian team's May 24th presentation. Western 'news'-media have likewise almost completely ignored Russia's response. (One Dutch medium did report on it but dismissed it by focusing on a subordinate part: their report said and focused on "Russia now claims that the video images the investigators used to track the missile's transport to the Ukraine, were manipulated." However, the part of Russia's presentation that will be discussed in the present article was being entirely ignored in that Dutch news-report, which, as you will see here, has nothing to do with any claim of manipulated evidence. Britain's BBC likewise focused-in on the "manipulated evidence" that Russia's presentation had attacked. The Washington Post instead headlined "Who spread disinformation about the MH17 crash? We followed the Twitter trail", and it focused-in on how polarized the public is over the MH17 case. The West's 'news'-coverage was virtually entirely misdirection and disinformation, as you will recognize from what follows here. And the evidence here is linked-to, so that you can see it for yourself.)

    Russia's response documented beyond any question, at all, that this airliner was shot down by the Ukrainian Government, and that Western (i.e., US-allied) 'news'media have been and are covering up this crucial historical fact and The West's still-ongoing lies about the downing of MH17.

    Those lies are the basis of US and EU anti-Russia sanctions, which remain in effect despite the basis for those sanctions having been exposed unequivocally, on September 17th, to be based on lies. Thus, continuing to hide those lies is crucial to the liars. This is the reason why Russia's blazingly detailed presentation on September 17th has been virtually ignored - to protect the actually guilty. The evidence here proves that those sanctions, themselves, are nothing but frauds against the public, and crimes against Russia - ongoing additional crimes, which have been, and remain, effectively hidden till now.

    The reader can see and consider here all of the conclusive evidence in the MH17 case - it can be reached via the present article's links. Unlike the 'news'-reports in The West's 'news'-media, the presentation here is not presuming readers' trust, but is instead providing to all readers access to the actual evidence - evidence that is accepted by both sides. That's what the links here are for: examination by any skeptics.

    Skepticism in judging anything is not only good; it is essential to justice. Trust should never be given; it should only be earned. Otherwise, no democracy can function. Only dictatorship can function in a country that's controlled by lies, and by liars. Liars are believed by people who have faith in them. Thus, faith in anything or anyone can poison judgment. The way to test the case that is presented here is to click onto a link wherever one wants to see and examine the evidence. Without examining (usually by spot-checking) the evidence, no reader can intelligently judge any case. Dictatorship is almost inevitable in a counry where spot-checking of the actual evidence isn't the norm. Most 'news'-media don't even enable such spot-checking. This is why 'news'-media are so often actually propaganda-media instead.

    So, here's the complete MH17 case, for any reader to judge:
    The last announcement from the official investigation, the Netherlands-headed "Joint Investigative Team" (JIT), was on 24 May 2018, and it headlined "Update in criminal investigation MH17 disaster". It said:
    The JIT is convinced that the BUK-TELAR [missile and launcher] that was used to down MH17, originates from the 53rd Anti Aircraft Missile brigade (hereinafter 53rd brigade), a unit of the Russian army from Kursk in the Russian Federation. ... This fingerprint has been compared with numerous images of BUK-TELARS, both Ukrainian and Russian ones. The only BUK-TELAR on which this combination of characteristics also was found, is a BUK-TELAR that was recorded several times when it joined a convoy of the 53rd brigade on 23 - 25 June 2014.

    Consequently, the JIT presumes that within the 53rd brigade and within the circle around it, people have knowledge about the operation in which that particular BUK-TELAR was deployed. ... Already in September 2016, the JIT disclosed that MH17 was downed with a BUK missile of the 9M38 series. ...

    The missile engine's casing shows the number 9 д 1318869032.
    Typical of Western 'news'-media's coverage of that presentation, was CNN's report the same day, May 24th of 2018. It was headlined "Missile that downed MH17 'owned by Russian brigade'". It stated: "'At the time this area was under control of pro-Russian separatists,' said Fred Westerbeke, chief prosecutor of the National Prosecutor's Office of the Netherlands. The Buk launcher of the 9M38 series 'was transported from the territory of the Russian Federation and was returned to that territory of the Russian Federation afterwards'."

    The Ukrainian side claimed they had finally found evidence which would enable them definitively to place the blame for the MH17 shoot-down on Russia. So, the very next day, May 25th, Britain's Telegraph bannered "Netherlands and Australia call for compensation for MH17 victims as they accuse Russia of downing plane" and reported that "Australia and the Netherlands have said they hold Russia legally responsible for the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight 17 over Ukraine in 2014 and will seek reparations for relatives of the 298 people killed." This demand against Russia was coming "the day after the Dutch-led international investigation concluded that the Russian military had deployed the Buk surface-to-air missile that shot down the plane."

    Four months later, on 17 September 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense youtubed its response, which is titled "Briefing on newly discovered evidence pertaining to the crash of the MH17 flight". It presented the actual history of the Buk missile and launcher which Ukraine and the other Governments on the JIT said had brought down the MH17. (The JIT includes four countries, Netherlands, Ukraine, Belgium, and Australia, with a fifth, Malaysia, having been brought in only later, after it finally agreed to allow Ukraine a veto over any conclusions that the team will publish. Malaysia's participation started on 4 December 2014; but whether Malaysia has actually been allowed to play a role in the 'investigation' isn't clear.) Russia, during the intervening months after the JIT's May 24th presentation, had tracked down all of those serial numbers, 8868720, and 1318869032, and 9M38, and found (as you can see there by clicking on each, especially onto the "Briefing" itself) that after the acquisition of the launcher and missile, by Ukraine in 1986, from Russia, that missile and its launcher had always, and constantly since their transfer to Ukraine in 1986, remained in Ukraine, and never again were located in Russia. So: if the JIT's supplied evidence is authentic - which the Ukrainian team asserts it to be - then it outright convicts Ukraine. This is an evidentiary checkmate, against the Ukrainian side.

    With the passage now of years, the precise cause of the shooting-down of the Malaysian passenger plane MH17 on 17 July 2014 has been becoming clearer and clearer, despite the rigorous continuing attempts by Western 'news' media to cover it up and to hide from the public the growing and by-now irrefutable evidence (presented here) that clearly shows what and who actually brought down this airliner.

    In the years since I headlined on August 24th of 2014 the news, "MH-17 'Investigation': Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out: Perpetrator of the Downing in Ukraine, of the Malaysian Airliner, Will Stay Hidden", the key fact about the official 'investigation' has actually been that the Government of Ukraine was, on 8 August 2014, granted veto-power over any official finding which would be produced by the Joint Investigative Team. On 20 November 2014, Russian Television headlined "Dutch government refuses to reveal 'secret deal' into MH17 crash probe" and reported that Holland's science-publishers Elsevier had filed for this information under that country's Freedom of Information Act, and the Government simply refused to comply with that law. The leaders of Western nations apparently want the black-box and much other basic data in their possession to remain hidden, and the four nations had signed this secret agreement to allow the Government of Ukraine to block any report that incriminates Ukraine in the MH17 shoot-down. But additional evidence has nonetheless become public, and all of it confirms and adds yet further details to the explanation that was first put forth by the retired German Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko, whose independent investigation had concluded that Ukrainian Government fighter-jets intentionally shot down this civilian plane. He did not rule out the possibility that a Buk missile had simultaneously been used there, but he made clear that at least one fighter-jet had been used in this shoot-down.


    5 perfectly aligned bullet holes in piece of MH17 wreckage

    However, if those parts of a Buk missile, which were the focus of the Netherlands team's presentation on May 24th, were indeed retrieved from the crash-site as that team claims, then a Buk missile had also hit the MH17. Serious question would nonetheless exist as to whether that Buk was fired by troops who were working for Ukraine, or instead for Russia (or else for Donbas separatists who were working in conjunction with Russia, which was Ukraine's and America's original version of the event).

    Precisely what the method was, by which the direct perpetrators brought down the MH17, has gradually become clearer, despite this continuation of Western secrecy (and Ukraine's veto-power over the 'findings') regarding the contents of the black boxes, and of the US satellite images, and of the Ukrainian air-traffic-control radar recordings, and of other evidence-sources that are still being held secret by The West and not made available to their 'news' media nor to anyone outside a tight official circle of those Western nations' intelligence agencies.

    But now, Russia has actually - on 17 September 2018 - exposed the outright fraudulence of the JIT's 24 May 2018 presentation, and The West (the US Government's allies) entirely ignored the conclusive evidence that that presentation by the JIT itself actually contained and to which Russia was pointing, so that there can no longer be reasonable doubt about The West's intentional and still ongoing fraudulence regarding the entire MH17 matter.

    Also entirely ignored in the Ukrainain team's 'explanation' of the event is why Ukraine's air-traffic control had guided the MH17's pilot to fly over the conflict-zone where Ukraine's civil war was being waged and where Ukraine's war-planes were bombing. The MH17's pilot was instructed by Ukraine's air-traffic control to take that path instead of the one that the airline had planned and that had become normal during the civil war. This was highly abnormal, and it doomed the MH17. Clearly, only Ukraine's Government could, and did, do that - change the route, and for only that one plane. Yet, still, the Netherlands-headed team blames Russia and is trusted in The West, but Russia is not. (Now, why would that be?)


    Is this proof that MH17 change course into a war zone? A route map compiled by Twitter user Vagelis Karmiros using data from flight-tracking website Flightaware claims to show how the doomed Malaysia Airlines plane took a different flightpath to the ones taken by the previous ten MH17 flights

    Russia has constantly been releasing its own investigations regarding MH-17; and, in the process, Russia on September 17th not only provided further details as to how the downing actually happened (it wasn't by mistake, as the West contends it was), but they have also, in prior presentations, exposed the absurd impossibility of the Ukrainian Government's 'explanation' of this event (that only a Buk had been used), which is the 'explanation' that is still being parroted unquestioningly and unflinchingly by officials in Washington, Europe, and NATO, and also by Western 'news' media. (As my news-report on 24 August 2014 explained, that secret August 8th agreement was signed by the four governments which formed the JIT team and which had been handed by Malaysia the black boxes to study - Ukraine, Belgium, Australia, and Netherlands - and the JIT granted to the Ukrainian Government a veto over anything that the team's official report would say. This is probably the reason why the subsequent officially released report on those black boxes said essentially nothing. It was a brazen insult to the 298 victims' families. The presumption has been that all of them will have faith, not be skeptical, regarding the JIT team.)

    Though Russia doesn't possess those black boxes (which, by chance, were handed by the pro-Russian separatists to the Malaysian Government's representative, and yet that Government handed them to Netherland's Government instead of to Russia's - apparently trusting Netherlands more than trusting Russia or even themselves), Russia does possess, and publicly reveals, evidence that's conclusive on its own; and it is 100% consistent with Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, regardless whether a Buk was involved or not. Russian Television had issued in October 2014 a 25-minute documentary on the event, and it starts with people whom they interviewed in that region, who were describing their having seen at least one and perhaps two planes rising toward the airliner, and then the airliner coming down from the sky. Other witnesses told them that they saw an SU-25 fighter plane take off in that general area just minutes before the airliner came down.

    First, the missing BBC report:
    The BBC had previously posted to their website on 23 July 2014, just six days after the event itself, a news report in Russian via their Russian service (fortunately archived by Global Research), about the downing, but they quickly removed it without explanation. Fortunately, however, some Russian-speakers had managed to download it before it was yanked; and at least two of those downloads were posted to youtube, the first one having been posted there on 28 July 2014, with English subscripts, and with the headline, "UKRAINE Eyewitness Confirm Military Jet Flew Besides MH17 Airliner: BBC Censors Video 25Jul2014". (It's gone now, but, actually, several witnesses, and not just one, were interviewed there - there wasn't just one "Eyewitness".) Furthermore, Global Research posted on 10 September 2014 a transcript of it, headlining, "Deleted BBC Report. 'Ukrainian Fighter Jet Shot Down MHI7', Donetsk Eyewitnesses." (The video itself is still at youtube and it will be linked-to just below here, so that you will be able to view it.)

    [Ed. note: The BBC videos have been taken down.]

    The interviews by the BBC were done by their reporter Olga Ivshina. (Also see http://archive.is/vFoh9.) She had filmed local residents in the crash-debris area. In one passage of her 23 July 2014 news-report, there were two residents simultaneously who described what they had seen. One of them said, "And there was another aircraft." The other continued immediately, in order to describe the other plane, "a military one, beside it ['it' being the airliner]. Everybody saw it. It was proceeding underneath below the civilian one."

    Here is the second, and clearer, version of that clip. (It's the one that's still live at youtube.) The key portion on it is at 0:38-042 in the video:

    That was the 9 September 2014 repost of it, with the same subscript-translation into English, only the visual is sharper.

    And here is an apology, dated 25 July 2014, by the BBC, for their having removed their original video of this interview - and yet they still didn't repost it; they still continue to blockade it; even today the only versions available, of these, the earliest recorded interviews of people who said they witnessed the event, are the independently posted ones, but here is the BBC's apology:

    Удаленный с сайта Би-би-си репортаж доработан ("Deleted from the BBC website report reportage")

    Here, then, is that BBC apology google-translated into English.

    So: clearly, BBC has done all that they could to remove evidence, which they had mistakenly broadcast, which had fit the retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, and which contradicted the US-Ukrainian reconstruction of it - the reconstruction that Western 'news' media project, and on the basis of which US President Barack Obama won from the EU stiff increases in, and subsequent extensions of, the economic sanctions against Russia, all on the basis of lies.

    So, this valuable eyewitness-testimony to the MH17 event is available despite Western 'news' media (or, more-accurately, propaganda-media), and the reason for the news-suppression is clear to anyone who views that BBC 23 July 2014 report, which presents several eyewitnesses, interviewed separately as individuals, not as a group, and yet all of whose testimonies - perhaps despite Ivshina's wish for them not to say this - report having observed the very same basic narrative, of at least one military jet rising toward the airliner just before it came down.

    In other words: it is clear that BBC had yanked this report because it didn't confirm the West's story-line, which says that Ukrainian pro-Russian separatists had fired a "Buk" ground-based missile at the airliner, thinking that the civilian plane was a Ukrainian Government war-plane about to bomb them and their families. But, first of all, the Ukrainian Government was virtually admitting there that they were bombing these villagers, which means that they were perpetrating an ethnic cleansing operation there, which indeed that Government was doing; but, secondly, the Ukrainian Government's statement also acknowledged that if the event had happened in that way, it would have been unintentional, a tragic accident on the part of the rebels there. (The JIT's line now is that it was instead an outright Russian attack against the MH17.)

    So, then, why did "the international community" respond with massive economic sanctions against Russia on account of this downing - by, as it turns out, Ukraine? The whole Western propaganda position was designed for a public of sheer fools, if not of outright psychopathic ones, who cared not a bit about the plights of the victims of an ethnic-cleansing campaign. They cared only about victims in "The West." The West's basic story-line doesn't make sense without recognizing that we were financing ethnic cleansing to clear the land in southeastern Ukraine, and that any support that Russia would be providing to those separatists would have been defensive in nature, not offensive. Yet Russia gets the blame when this passenger jet goes down? Even though Ukraine's air-traffic control had guided the pilot there? In any case, that story-line of Russian guilt is false, from start to finish. And now (at least after 17 September 2018) it is finished. But Western 'news'-media still continue to broadcast the lies, as if it weren't.

    Here is how outright ludicrous it actually is, and sound reason in itself that anyone in the military had to have known, from the very get-go, that the "Buk" 'explanation' was a line of pure malarkey:

    The Russian documentary:
    The 22 October 2014 Russian documentary was titled, "MH-17: The Untold Story," and it presents, among much else, videos of several "Buk" missiles being fired on other occasions, just to show how utterly ludicrous the initial Ukraine-US-and-allied 'explanation of the MH17 event was. On 5 November 2014, I summarized that, with screen-shots from the Russian documentary:
    So, when even the BBC's reporter wasn't able to find anyone in that entire region who recounts having seen anything of the sort, just how likely would the Ukrainian Government's line on that matter - that not only was this done by a lone Buk but it was fired by (at first) pro-Russian separatists, and (then) by the Russian army - actually be? Obviously, any person with any military knowledge whatsoever had to have recognized virtually immediately that the Ukrainian Government's story-line on the MH-17 downing was a pile of sheer malarkey, but did anyone in the Western 'news' media report that it was - that the Western line there was not just a lie, but an absurd one, one that requires an ignorant public in order for it to be able to be taken seriously at all by the public? One that requires an ignorant public, to remain ignorant? This is supposed to be the Western 'news' media, with a free press, and a democracy, a truthfully informed citizenry, who can vote based upon truths, not on mere lies?

    © RT

    Here is the way that the Russian TV documentary opens:


    © RT/Screenshot

    Several of the locals there told Russian TV's reporter that they had seen a military jet rise toward the airliner; and not a one of these individuals were any of the same ones who had testified the exact same thing to the BBC's reporter, whose news-piece had been squelched by her managers.

    Here is how MH17 was shot down:
    Now, to the substance of the explanation of how this plane was actually brought down:


    MH17 cockpit with evidence of bullet holes

    Earlier, I had summarized the evidence for Peter Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, but I questioned his having accepted the eyewitness testimony to the effect that the planes that shot down the airliner were SU-25s. In Haisenko's Russian TV interview, he stuck by his belief that it was probably SU-25s instead of SU-27s or Mig 29s, both of which are also in the Ukrainian Air Force, and all three of which use 30-millimeter machine-guns or "cannons." But since the fact is that all three of those attack-plane models use machine-guns ("cannons") with 30-caliber bullets (which is the size that clearly was used, especially on the cockpit), the effect would be identically-sized round 30-caliber entry-holes, no matter what. My last major report on that evidence, prior to the 8 August 2014 formation of the JIT and their mutual agreement to report nothing that would be incriminating to Ukraine's Government regarding the MH17 incident, was "Systematically Reconstructing the Shoot-Down of the Malaysian Airliner: The Guilt Is Clear and Damning." That basically fills in (and the links, in that report, document with pictures and videos that) the actual way that this plane was downed, and that why it was downed was "to get the EU to go along with stiffened sanctions against Russia". Obama (via the regime that he had installed in a February 2014 coup in Kiev) succeeded there in getting the international sanctions against Russia that he had been wanting. Obama, and certainly not Putin - and now we know it wasn't Russia at all (not even if a Buk was involved) - was the key person behind this. The 298 MH17 murder-victims on 17 July 2014 were murdered by Barack Obama (via his agents such as Victoria Nuland - she ran Obama's Ukrainian operation), just as clearly as (if not even more clearly than) Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman al-Saud (via his agents at the Sauds' Istanbul Consulate) murdered Jamal Khashoggi on 2 October 2018.

    International actions (such as economic sanctions) are based upon such fabrications, and 'evidence' taken out of its full context, as this from the far-right Forbes commentator Paul Roderick Gregory, but there are no such fakes, nor out-of-context items of evidence, in the case that has been presented here. That's the difference between news-reporting versus propaganda; but, in the United States today, propaganda passes as if it were 'news,' and authentic news that doesn't fit the regime's cooked-up narrative is suppressed entirely. The scandal isn't just Obama, and it's not just Ukraine; it is also the propaganda-organs, and even (though to the least extent) their audiences who subscribe to such lying 'news'-media.

    Western governments, and their 'news' media, are treating their citizens, their own publics, not really as citizens, but as suckers. They are treating them as subjects, instead of as citizens. This is not authentic democracy. It is neo-feudal; it is, in fact, fascism.


    MH17 cockpit bullet holes detail

    The entire "Buk" 'explanation' of the downing of the Malaysian airliner (the idea that only a Buk missile caused the physical wreckage which was found) is for suckers only; and everyone in official circles, and in the press, who peddles it, is just as fake as the ridiculous story-line that he or she is peddling. To fall for it, after being provided all of the authentic evidence, which has been linked-to here, one would have to be a willing slave to psychopaths. In this case, the psychopath was Obama, who not only had perpetrated a bloody coup to overthrow the democratically elected President of Ukraine in February 2014 but who also was now struggling, and had a very pressing obsession, to get the EU to accept his sanctions against Russia for its having accepted the pleas of Crimeans (who had voted 75% for that President) to become restored again to Russia. The 14 July 2014 mass-murder that was set up to be blamed against Russia was Obama's trick that enabled him to win his way on this.

    Conclusions:
    By no means do we know every detail about how the MH17 was shot down, but what we do now know for certain is that the narrative for that event which was supplied by Ukraine's team on May 24th - the official account of how it happened - isn't just false; it is outright fraudulent. Ukraine's team supplied evidence which, if it is authentic, actually convicts Ukraine. And Western 'news'-media hide this crucial fact.

    So, now, we know why Western governments have hidden, instead of making available to the public, the black-box data and the other evidence that they still refuse to provide to the public. They are aiming to scam the public, not to inform it. Lying is their game. They might call it 'patriotism.' Traitors would likely do that. Traitors to any country could do it. And, so, they do. Their believers constitute their political base.

    Unfortunately, anyone they fool becomes their tool, and everyone else is purely their victim - helpless to oust (much less, to replace) the tyrants who make things bad for everyone but themselves and their colleagues, the insiders at the very top.

    Just the day before the MH17 shoot-down, Bloomberg News had headlined, on 16 July 2014, "EU Readies Russia Sanctions Amid US Pressure on Ukraine", and reported that "the US urges the bloc to take a tougher stance against Moscow." The day before that, on July 15th, Bloomberg's headline had been "EU Leaders Weigh Sanctions Against Russia Over Ukraine", and that report opened,
    "European Union leaders meeting in Brussels will consider expanded sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine conflict, as the US urges the bloc to take a tougher stand against Moscow."
    Was the July 17th event only coincidentally timed perfectly in order to achieve what Obama was determined to produce: the first Ukraine-based anti-Russia sanctions? The regime that Obama had installed in Ukraine in February 2014 needed not only his support, but also the support of the IMF (in order to obtain loans), and of the EU (which it was seeking to join). There was probably even more pressure placed upon the leaders in Ukraine than there was upon the leaders in the EU. But there was plenty upon them both. The EU was widely reported to be balking at increasing the sanctions against Russia. Obama needed the EU to approve quickly his increased sanctions, so as to keep the momentum going for his entire anti-Russian campaign, which had been the reason behind his February 2014 coup in Ukraine. Something dramatic now was needed, in order for Obama to win the EU's full cooperation. After all, Obama had secretly started at least by 2011 his operation to take over Ukraine. This operation was, for him, one of the central objectives of his entire two-term Presidency. Ukraine - and Ukraine alone - now had within its power the capacity to deliver to him the EU's participation. Ukraine delivered it, precisely when it was the most urgently needed. This was essential in order for Ukraine to be able to enter the EU. And entering the EU would be essential in order for Ukraine to be able to enter NATO - the next key step in the Bilderbergers' plan.

    Continuing the sanctions is easier than originally imposing them was. On 22 December 2018, UAwire headlined "EU extends economic sanctions against Russia", and reported that on December 14th, the EU's sanctions against Russia, which are based upon alleged Russian aggressions in or against Ukraine, are being extended: UAwire noted "These measures were initially introduced on July 31, 2014 for one year in response to Russia's actions to destabilize the situation in Ukraine, and then strengthened in September 2014." The EU supports, and participates in, the US regime's lies and sanctions against Russia. These crimes and lies started as Obama's, but continued under his successor Trump, and have been also the EU's crimes throughout, by the EU's joining, instead of condemning, not only those sanctions but also the lies upon which those sanctions are based. The EU thus indirectly shares the US Government's guilt in the mass-murders that occurred on 17 July 2014.

    Perhaps the survivors' families and Malaysia Airlines (which is owned by the Malaysian Government), and their Governments, will file both civil and criminal charges now initially against Ukraine and its President Petro Poroshenko, and ultimately against Victoria Nuland, Barack Obama, and the United States, but also against the Dutch Government, for its collusion with the United States Government in its fraudulent 'investigation' that had pre-established blame against Russia. (However, the secret agreement that Malaysia signed to join the JIT might prohibit Malaysia from joining such suits.) Netherlands pre-established Russian blame especially by means of its 8 August 2014 secret four-party agreement (joined later by Malaysia's Government) to allow Ukraine, an actual suspect in this case, to hold veto power over the assignment of blame in this entire matter. However, not only the survivors of the 298 victims should be suing, but all of the victims should be represented in this case. There were also many violations of international laws. Obama's coup against Ukraine was one such. The MH17 shoot-down resulted from that coup, couldn't have occurred without it, and was an extension from it. That coup is thus an important part of the MH17 case.

    On 20 September 2017, the now 5 countries in the JIT signed a joint "Memorandum of Understanding" saying "Arrangements for signatories and other grieving nations to make financial contributions to the national proceedings in the Netherlands will be laid down in a financial memorandum of understanding," and that "This Memorandum will remain in effect for five years and will be automatically extended for successive five-year periods." So, they intend to continue their 'investigation' into MH17 until they can present to the world evidence that Russia did it. Perhaps before that happens, however, all of the victims and their children will already have passed away and this fraud and farce will finally end, as secretly as it began, and only few people will even care, any more, about it.

    Or will victims and their families, instead, initiate whatever legal proceedings they can, right now, against all members of the JIT, for their cover-up, and against the ringleaders, in the US, who demanded this mass-murder to be done, and against the perpetrators in Ukraine, who actually ordered and did it?

    Maybe they'll even be able to get Barack Obama to return to the Nobel committee their 2009 Peace Prize.

    The US regime masterminded this mass-murder in order to win the EU's support for sanctions against Russia, and the EU knowingly complied, and continues to comply, with the American regime's ongoing aggressions and lies against Russia. The 298 MH17 murder-victims are thus not only the US regime's victims, but vicariously victims also of the EU - and not, at all, of Russia. Russia was instead the real intended target of the possible Ukrainian Buk missile, and of the Ukrainian fighter-jets, that brought down the MH17. The MH17 victims were merely "collateral damage" in the US regime's secret decades-long and ongoing anti-Russia war. This is how today's America competes in the world, by playing very dirty, and getting away with it, helped by its allies, which endorse, and join in, the US regime's atrocities.

    Now, which major news-media in The West will report these solidly documented facts? Isn't it time, finally, that they should start doing that? Or, do they have no honor, at all?


    Related (video 2014):
    ​MH-17: the untold story Archived here: http://avalonlibrary.net/MH17_The_Untold_Story.mp4
    Last edited by Hervé; 2nd January 2019 at 21:14.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    MH17: Ukraine's guilt decisively proven?

    Eric Zuesse Strategic Culture Foundation
    Tue, 01 Jan 2019 20:43 UTC



    Finally, a clear and convincing - and unrefuted - case can now be presented to the public, as to precisely whom the guilty party was, that downed the MH17 Malaysian airliner over Ukraine on 17 July 2014, and why it was done. The complete case, which will be fully documented here, displays unequivocally who needed the MH17 murders (of 298 persons) to be perpetrated. This mass-murder was done for one leader's very pressing obsession. For him, it simply had to be done, and done at that precise time.
    This excellent article was also reposted more recently, on Zerohedge, at MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine's Guilt Now Proven

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I am still not convinced.
    The scene was obviously staged.
    It doesn't matter much who "shot down" the airplane as long as they can't explain how come the bodies on the ground were partly decomposed and leaking green fluid that glowed in the dark, and how they were of the wrong kind, and stripped of their clothes.
    A staged scene is a staged scene and not a crash site.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Ukrainian side involved in MH17 flight disaster over Donbass - former SBU officer

    TASS
    Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:25 UTC


    © Zurab Javakhadze/TASS

    Vasily Prozorov said it was his personal opinion and it relied on certain information

    The Ukrainian side was involved in the MH17 flight disaster over Donbass, a former officer of the Ukrainian security service SBU, Vasily Prozorov, told a news conference on Monday.

    "It is my personal opinion and it relies on certain information. The Ukrainian side is an accomplice to the Malaysian MH17 flight disaster," he said.

    "The amazingly prompt reaction of the Ukrainian leadership was the first thing that made me feel suspicious. My unequivocal opinion was President Pyotr Poroshenko and his press-service had prior knowledge of the affair. Secondly, hostilities had been underway for several months by then, but the airspace over the area was not closed," Prozorov said.

    In particular he emphasized the invariable response to all of his attempts to find out the circumstances of the disaster, for instance, a conversation with General Staff officers. The usual reply was: "Don't poke your nose into this business, if you don't wish to have problems."

    "Some information has leaked out in the end, though. On the basis of my own analysis I can speculate who was an accomplice in the crime and who was involved in concealing evidence. In my opinion, there were two men involved - the current deputy chief of the Ukrainian presidential staff Valery Kondratyuk and chief of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry's intelligence directorate, Vasily Burba."

    A passenger liner Boeing-777 of the Malaysia Airlines (Flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur) disappeared from the radar screens over the east of Ukraine's Donetsk Region on July 17, 2014. Its crash killed all 298 passengers and crew on board - citizens of ten countries. Although hostilities had been underway on the ground for quite some time by then Kiev failed to close the Donbass airspace to international passenger flights. Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine created a Joint Investigation Team. On May 24 last year it published an interim report to claim that the missile launcher which had fired the missile that downed the plane might have been brought from Russia's 53rd air defense missile brigade.

    Russia dismissed the JIT charges. The Defense Ministry said that not a single air defense system of the Russian armed forces had ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    More from Vasily Prozorov at FRN:

    BREAKING: Ukrainian Security Boss Admits Ukraine Shot Down MH-17, Planned Ethnic Genocide in Donbass

    By Joaquin Flores On Mar 26, 2019


    MOSCOW – Top ranking SBU (Ukrainian Security Service) agent in charge of the ATO operation since 2014 Vasily Prozorov has just made some stunning statements to international media, and has recently escaped to Russia. Moreover, without exaggeration, this is a major blow to the foreign policy positions of Kiev. It is also a very weighty argument for those forces in Europe who want to quickly move the peace process in Ukraine from its present stalemate.

    In speaking to journalists, Prozorov’s presentation can be summarized with these points:
    – Kiev from the very beginning did not plan to resolve the conflict in the south-east of Ukraine by peaceful means

    – Kiev initially planned a large number of victims among the population of Donbass, then they wanted to declare them accomplices of terrorists

    – In the area of ​​the ATO there are Ukrainian secret prisons (as he called them concentration camps)

    – The neo nazi Azov unit also had its secret prisons. This is not Russian propaganda, people were actually killed there.

    – Specialists from the USA and the UK prepared a division of the SBU (Department No. 5) who went to train in the US and abroad to organize terrorist attacks and sabotage in Donbass

    – The Ukrainian side was involved in the Boeing crash of the MH17 flight
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Buk does not "hit" the target per se.
    It explodes near the target, sending off thousands of shrapnel, killing the pilot.
    If indeed Buk was deployed, you should see thousands of tiny holes in the aircraft as well as in the bodies found.
    But such holes ain't there.

    Only Ukrainian Sokhoi can have done it.

    The event coincided with the start of Israel's massacre in Gaza. Coincidence?
    Last edited by Didgevillage; 31st March 2019 at 01:00.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Malaysia demands actual evidence proving Russia shot down MH17

    Free Malaysia Today
    Sat, 01 Jun 2019 09:49 UTC



    Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad says the probe into the MH17 plane tragedy seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians and this is not a neutral kind of examination.

    The Malaysian government wants strong evidence to show that Russia is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 tragedy in 2014, said Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad today.

    He said Malaysia accepted the investigation report of Holland but only up to the point where the plane was brought down by a missile made by Russia.

    Mahathir said while the government agreed that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile, it cannot be certain that the missile was launched by Russia.
    "They are accusing Russia but where is the evidence? We know the missile that brought down the plane is a Russian-type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine.

    "You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians.

    "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile," he said during a dialogue and media conference with the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (FCCJ) here today.
    Mahathir said people of Russia are military people and they would know that MH17 is a passenger plane.
    "I don't think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile," he said.
    The prime minister said Malaysia should also be involved in examining the black box as the plane belongs to Malaysia and there were Malaysian passengers.
    "We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.

    "We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it.

    "The idea was not to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians. This is not a neutral kind of examination," said Mahathir.
    "Had a neutral party examined and made the conclusion, Malaysia is willing to accept the findings but here we have parties with political interests in the matter," he added.
    Flight MH17, which departed from Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam, on its way to Kuala Lumpur, was shot before crashing near Torez in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, about 40km from the Russian border on July 17, 2014.

    The incident killed 298 people, including 15 crew members.

    The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) said the team was convinced that a BUK Telar missile was used to down MH17, and that it originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade (53rd Brigade), which is a unit of the Russian army in Kursk in the Russian Federation.
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