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Thread: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

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    United States Avalon Member bearcow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....nt/?hpt=hp_bn2

    bilderberger fareed zakaria laying down the narrative
    Last edited by bearcow; 18th July 2014 at 05:34.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by bearcow (here)
    well it seems the story they will go with is that Russian separatists shot down the plane with weaponry that was Russian or could only be obtained by them through Russia.

    USA will then try to strong arm the EU into stiffer economic sanctions

    Mcain will trumpet the case for increased US aid and greater nato presence in eastern europe

    Merkel is still the wild card in all this, what did she and putin talk about in brazil last week?
    Hitlary just backed all this up...



    Hillary Clinton Blames Russia for Downed Plane in Ukraine

    Work of "Russian insurgents"

    July 17, 2014


    She told Charlie Rose there appears “to be some growing awareness” that “Russian insurgents” were behind the downing.

    “There is a great deal of concern that not only was a civilian plane shot down but what this means about the continuing conflict in eastern Ukraine and the role that Russia is playing,” Clinton said.

    The former Secretary of State said if Russia is held to blame for the incident sanctions against Russia should be tightened and Europe should stop importing Russian energy.

    “Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this,” Clinton said. “It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals.”

    http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clin...ne-in-ukraine/
    Last edited by jackovesk; 18th July 2014 at 05:55.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Now that the authorities think this flight was shot down,
    please do not rule out the possibility of a functional field testing of advanced boat and aircraft-mounted laser weapons systems, such as the US Navy LAWS Laser (altho this one has a purported range much shorter than what would allegedly have been required in order to shoot down this Malaysia airlines flight...)

    Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Weapon_System

    Laser Weapon System: History


    In 2010, Kratos Defense & Security Solutions was awarded an 11-million-dollar contract to develop LaWS in support of the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) for the U.S. Navy’s Directed Energy and Electric Weapon Systems (DE&EWS) program.[4] The May 2012 NSWC test used a CIWS control system to enable the beam director to track the UAV target.[5]

    The LaWS will be installed on the USS Ponce in summer 2014 for a 12-month trial deployment. The Navy spent about $40 million over the past six years on research, development, and testing of the laser weapon. It will be directed to targets by the Phalanx CIWS radar.

    If tests go well, the Navy could deploy a laser weapon operationally between 2017 and 2021 with an effective range of 1 mi (1.6 km; 0.87 nmi). The exact level of power the LaWS will use is unknown but estimated between 15-50 kW for engaging small aircraft and high-speed boats. Directed-energy weapons are being pursued for economic reasons, as they can be fired for as little as one dollar per shot, while conventional gun rounds and missiles can cost thousands of dollars each.

    The Navy has a history of testing energy weapons, including megawatt chemical lasers in the 1980s. Their chemicals were found to be too hazardous for shipboard use, so they turned to less powerful fiber solid-state lasers. Other types can include slab solid state and free electron lasers.[6] The LaWS benefitted from commercial laser developments, with the system basically being six welding lasers "strapped together" that, although don't become a single beam, all converge on the target at the same time. It generates 33 kW in testing, with follow-on deployable weapons generating 60-100 kW mounted on a Littoral Combat Ship or Arleigh Burke-class destroyer to destroy fast-attack boats, drones, manned aircraft, and anti-ship cruise missiles out to a few miles.[7]
    thanks to modern attitudes life gets cheaper rather than more precious as technology 'matures'...

    tesla would be sad i hope, to see tech used this way...
    and conventional tech easily blamed a la 9/11 for stuff likely accomplished via advanced means...

    @@

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    please don't forget about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Weapon_System

    Quote History

    In 2010, Kratos Defense & Security Solutions was awarded an 11-million-dollar contract to develop LaWS in support of the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) for the U.S. Navy’s Directed Energy and Electric Weapon Systems (DE&EWS) program.[4] The May 2012 NSWC test used a CIWS control system to enable the beam director to track the UAV target.[5]

    The LaWS will be installed on the USS Ponce in summer 2014 for a 12-month trial deployment. The Navy spent about $40 million over the past six years on research, development, and testing of the laser weapon. It will be directed to targets by the Phalanx CIWS radar. If tests go well, the Navy could deploy a laser weapon operationally between 2017 and 2021 with an effective range of 1 mi (1.6 km; 0.87 nmi).

    The exact level of power the LaWS will use is unknown but estimated between 15-50 kW for engaging small aircraft and high-speed boats. Directed-energy weapons are being pursued for economic reasons, as they can be fired for as little as one dollar per shot, while conventional gun rounds and missiles can cost thousands of dollars each. The Navy has a history of testing energy weapons, including megawatt chemical lasers in the 1980s.


    Their chemicals were found to be too hazardous for shipboard use, so they turned to less powerful fiber solid-state lasers. Other types can include slab solid state and free electron lasers.[6] The LaWS benefitted from commercial laser developments, with the system basically being six welding lasers "strapped together" that, although don't become a single beam, all converge on the target at the same time.

    It generates 33 kW in testing, with follow-on deployable weapons generating 60-100 kW mounted on a Littoral Combat Ship or Arleigh Burke-class destroyer to destroy fast-attack boats, drones, manned aircraft, and anti-ship cruise missiles out to a few miles.[7]

    ...unknown power levels and range...
    unknown interaction with aircraft and drones...
    unknown capabilities...


    p.s. are there large scale examples of helical laser drilling??

    http://www.industrial-lasers.com/art...drilling-.html
    Last edited by Tesla_WTC_Solution; 18th July 2014 at 06:10.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    MSM is plastering this disinfo all over the damn place, it is thoroughly disgusting... I'm sure that Putin is seriously pissed at the cabalist pukes at this point... Now I feel that this seems to be a payback since the BRICS bank went online the other day.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Airlines, including Qantas, quit flying over Ukraine airspace months ago

    July 18, 2014

    “We stopped flying over Ukraine because of safety concerns,” Asiana spokeswoman Lee Hyo-Min said.

    Korean Air re-routed its flights 250 kilometres south of Ukraine “due to the political unrest in the region”, an official for the carrier told AFP.

    A Qantas spokeswoman said its London to Dubai service used to fly over Ukraine, but the route was changed “several months ago”.

    Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

    http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...-1226993758257

    PS - Question:

    Quote Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.
    What was MH17 doing in Ukrainian Airspace in the 1st place...

    Ask this man, he may know why?


    6th Prime Minister of Malaysia Incumbent Assumed office 3 April 2009

    While your at it, ask him where MH370 is..???
    Last edited by jackovesk; 18th July 2014 at 06:20.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
    Personally, I don't think this flight MH17 was/is the missing MH370 Boeing 777.....for some reason though Israel keeps popping in to my mind. It's beyond coincidence that 2 Malaysian flights now have been downed in the last four months. Convienent this time though for Israel to have the world focused on Ukraine and this shot down flight while they turn Gaza in to a pile of rubble stained red....
    Israel keeps popping on your mind possibly because at the time of the MH370, we were puzzling over the role of a a second 777 in Malaysia Air livery in storage in Israel. Maybe we couldn't fit the two planes together in a scenario because the actual scenario being played out involved three planes and two 'crashes'.

    This might mean that the Amsterdam flight suffered an MH370-type disappearance, while the third plane was taken out of storage and somehow destroyed at ground level. I noted above the anomaly in the video loop of a ticket marked MH0851. Maybe this would explain it.

    We still have a problem though: while one 777 might be passed off as another, that is not possible with the victims, at least some of whom are likely to be identified as passengers from Amsterdam.


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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I just had a quick look before I go to work, had not seen this thread
    last night, David has posted some articles this morning some may already
    have been posted.....Got to go see you later.......


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Malaysian Airlines MH17 passenger plane carrying 295 people including between
    five and ten Britons ‘shot down with ground-to-air missile’ at 33,000ft over Ukraine
    near to Russian border

    new Friday 18th July 2014 at 04:19 By david-icke





    ‘A Malaysian Airlines passenger plane has been shot down on the Russian-Ukraine
    border, killing all 295 people on board including a reported five to ten Britons
    and 23 Americans.

    The Boeing 777 aircraft was hit by a sophisticated surface-to-air missile over territory
    near Donetsk held by pro-Russian rebels who the Ukrainian government says are backed
    by the Kremlin.

    The Ukrainian authorities laid the blame for the attack on the rebels by denying any
    responsibility for the missile launch.

    TV pictures from the scene showed a pall of smoke billowing into the sky near Donetsk,
    apparently from the stricken flight MH17.

    Witnesses say body parts are scattered over a distance of 15km, suggesting the plane
    broke up in mid-air. Whitehall sources told MailOnline that between five and ten Britons
    were feared dead. Interfax news agency reported that 23 U.S. citizens were on board.’

    Read more: Malaysian Airlines MH17 passenger plane carrying 295 people including
    between five and ten Britons 'shot down with ground-to-air missile' at 33,000ft over
    Ukraine near to Russian border

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-border.html

    ====================================================

    Strobe Talbott Blames Russia For Shooting Down Commercial Airliner



    ‘Brookings Institution President Strobe Talbott has sensationally blamed Russia for
    shooting down a Malaysia Airlines plane which was hit by a missile over Ukraine,
    killing all 295 people on board.

    Donetsk separatist boss Strelkov, Kremlin’s proxy in war, says he ordered shootdown
    thinking plane was Ukrainian

    — Strobe Talbott (@strobetalbott) July 17, 2014

    In a tweet posted shortly after news broke of the airliner’s demise, Talbott alleged that,
    “Donetsk separatist boss Strelkov, Kremlin’s proxy in war, says he ordered shootdown
    thinking plane was Ukrainian.”’

    Read more …

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/strobe-t...-airliner.html

    =======================================================


    Malaysian Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine – Kiev Government Implicated




    ‘In what is now the second curious incident involving a Malaysian airlines flight, a Malaysian
    airlines Boeing 777 has crashed over Ukraine. The flight was traveling from Amsterdam to
    Kuala Lumpur with 295 people on board. The flight crashed in East Ukraine close to the Russian border.

    The flight was allegedly downed by a missile.

    According to USA Today “Anton Gerashenko, the adviser, says on his Facebook page the plane
    was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was hit Thursday by a missile fired from a BUK
    launcher, the Associated Press reports.”

    AP Journalists are claiming to have seen a similar style missile in the eastern Ukrainian town
    of Snizhne on Thursday.’

    Read more …

    http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/...e.html#!bg4gXn

    ========================================================



    President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile – sources




    ‘Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President
    Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports
    citing sources.

    “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and
    the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100
    meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft
    – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

    “The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for
    the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added.’

    Read more …

    http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
    ======================================================


    Redux October 2001: Ukraine admits missile may have downed Russian plane



    ‘A Ukrainian official today admitted that his country’s military may have mistakenly shot
    down a Russian commercial airliner over the Black sea last week, killing all 78 people on board.

    The announcement by Yevhen Marchuk, the head of the Ukrainian security council and a
    member of the commission investigating the tragedy, marks the first time that the country
    has conceded it may be responsible.

    “The reason for the crash could be an unintentional hit by an S-200 missile during the
    Ukrainian air defence exercises,” Mr Marchuk told a press conference today, adding that
    investigators would make their final conclusions after further, complex research.

    The Russian chief of the investigative commission, Vladimir Rushailo, said today that the
    aircraft had been hit by an anti-aircraft missile, the Interfax news agency reported.’

    Read more …

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/200.../russia.israel


    ==================================================


    US caught planning terror attacks in Ukraine



    ‘In a series of hacked emails received from “Anonymous Ukraine” it is clear that Pentagon
    officials working in concert with extremist elements in the Ukraine have carried out and
    are planning more attacks in Ukraine.

    What is also clear is that these attacks are to be blamed on Russia including blowing up
    planes at an airport. Other attacks may well include mass civilian casualties.

    The long series of emails include several that are frighteningly incriminating. This is first
    of the “worst,” three “smoking gun” false flag planning documents:’

    Read more …

    http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/0...ks-in-ukraine/

    ===============================================================


    Remember in March 2014 – Are the Israelis Planning Another 9-11 Using the Missing Boeing 777?

    Connect the Dots – It would be interesting to know if it was still in the hanger in Tel Aviv, wouldn't it?



    ‘Why would Israel have a plane identical to the missing Malaysia Airlines plane in storage in Tel Aviv?
    The plane in this photo is Boeing 777 2H6(ER) – 28416/155, an identical twin of the missing plane,
    which has been in Israel since November 2013. What are the Israelis doing with this plane in a
    hanger in Tel Aviv? Could it be part of a false-flag terror plot in the making?’

    Read more …

    http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israel...e-missing-777/

    ===========================================================


    Why was MH17 flying over a warzone?



    Published on 17 Jul 2014


    Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was downed Thursday afternoon
    in the volatile Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine. After crashing,
    many international observers immediately began questioning why
    flights over such a violent area were permitted in the first place.
    RT's Lindsay France learns more about the circumstances surround
    the flight and its downing by speaking with aviation expert
    Captain Rick Dake.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 18th July 2014 at 06:45.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    more than 100 AIDS activists, researchers and health workers were on the plane:
    http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/n...6a50d2bbcea4be

    Is there a possibility that these people might be targeted for some reason?

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Here's Alex ...

    Was Malaysian Airliner Shoot Down A False Flag ?


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    Avalon Member Star Tsar's Avatar
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    Question Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by yuhui (here)
    more than 100 AIDS activists, researchers and health workers were on the plane:
    http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/n...6a50d2bbcea4be

    Is there a possibility that these people might be targeted for some reason?

    This is the conference...

    http://www.aids2014.org/programme.aspx

    The AIDS 2014 Conference Programme seeks to promote scientific excellence and inquiry, encourage individual and collective action, foster multi-sectoral dialogue and constructive debate, and reinforce accountability amongst all stakeholders. Sessions will focus on the latest issues in HIV science, policy and practice and will also seek to share key research findings, lessons learned, best practices, as well as identify gaps in knowledge. The conference will feature abstract-driven sessions, a daily plenary session, a variety of symposia sessions, professional development workshops, and independently organized satellite meetings. In addition, the conference programme will include a number of programme activities, such as the Global Village and the Youth Programme, which are an integral aspect of the International AIDS Conference.

    The AIDS 2014 Joint Programme Committee is an international committee of experts and professionals with exceptional experience in their respective fields. These individuals will work together to construct a balanced and representative conference programme.

    This webpage will be updated regularly and reflect advances in the conference programme.

    Former President Bill Clinton is listed as one of the featured speakers for the conference.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5597547.html

    Post Update

    Latest HIV Cure Data Expected at AIDS 2014, More Hep C News

    New information about a so-called functional cure for HIV will be released at the 20th International AIDS Conference, being held from July 20 to 25. In addition, scientists and policy makers are anticipating more breaking hepatitis C news at the largest global HIV get-together, where results from TURQUOISE-1 and PHOTO-2 will be presented.

    At a briefing for reporters held in advance of the AIDS 2014 meeting, chair Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, MD, said the studies emphasize the importance of early treatment.

    Canadian researchers will report on a series of infants started on triple antiretroviral therapy in the first 48 hours of life. Another study to be presented, of South African children who did not meet the World Health Organization criteria for initiating treatment but who received treatment because of high viral loads, has demonstrated that low levels of immune system activation, as reflected by cell counts, are a key determinant in the slow progression of HIV in these children.

    "Activation and the HIV reservoirs are really the 2 critical determinants of HIV pathogenicity," Dr. Barré-Sinoussi told reporters. "This is another study showing that activation should be considered as a future strategy aiming for a cure, or at least a sustainable remission, in HIV patients without any treatment."

    This has long been considered the critical first step toward generating a cure.
    Steven Deeks, MD, from the University of California, San Francisco, who also spoke at the briefing, said there will be a fascinating series of studies that approach the potential for a sustainable remission through other means.

    It is believed that reservoirs of latently infected CD4 cells are the source of HIV re-emergence after the discontinuation of therapy. Standard antiretrovirals do not prevent the establishment of these latent reservoirs, and HIV is inaccessible for expression in part because of histone deacetylases. Purging these latent reservoirs using histone deacetylase inhibitors could open the possibility for sustained remission, Dr. Deeks explained.

    Danish investigators will report findings indicating that the inhibitor romidepsin reverses HIV latency in patients on longstanding treatment. "This has long been considered the critical first step toward generating a cure that would treat people on a global level, not just bone marrow transplant patients," Dr. Deeks said. "This presentation will generate interest and excitement."

    The same class of agents has also been shown to markedly reduce chronic inflammation in HIV-infected patients, he added.

    Hepatitis C Coinfections

    Direct-acting antivirals appear to have produced sustained virologic responses in most patients with hepatitis C, noted Stefano Vella, MD, from the Istituto Superiore di Sanita in Rome. Results from 2 clinical trials — TURQUOISE-1 and PHOTO-2 — will address whether patients coinfected with HIV respond as well.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/828152

    http://www.aidsmap.com/AbbVie-3-drug.../page/2846407/
    Last edited by Star Tsar; 18th July 2014 at 07:54.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
    Convienent this time though for Israel to have the world focused on Ukraine and this shot down flight while they turn Gaza in to a pile of rubble stained red....
    Excellent obervation.

    Quote Posted by yuhui (here)
    more than 100 AIDS activists, researchers and health workers were on the plane:
    http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/n...6a50d2bbcea4be

    Is there a possibility that these people might be targeted for some reason?
    Thank you for this link.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by jackovesk (here)
    Quote Posted by bearcow (here)
    well it seems the story they will go with is that Russian separatists shot down the plane with weaponry that was Russian or could only be obtained by them through Russia.

    USA will then try to strong arm the EU into stiffer economic sanctions

    Mcain will trumpet the case for increased US aid and greater nato presence in eastern europe

    Merkel is still the wild card in all this, what did she and putin talk about in brazil last week?
    Hitlary just backed all this up...



    Hillary Clinton Blames Russia for Downed Plane in Ukraine

    Work of "Russian insurgents"

    July 17, 2014


    She told Charlie Rose there appears “to be some growing awareness” that “Russian insurgents” were behind the downing.

    “There is a great deal of concern that not only was a civilian plane shot down but what this means about the continuing conflict in eastern Ukraine and the role that Russia is playing,” Clinton said.

    The former Secretary of State said if Russia is held to blame for the incident sanctions against Russia should be tightened and Europe should stop importing Russian energy.

    “Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this,” Clinton said. “It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals.”

    http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clin...ne-in-ukraine/
    Can't remember where I heard this, only that it was someone who'd know and was a trusted source, and was at the time relating to the recent close call with Syria...anyway, they said that whenever the gov't. mentions "insurgents", an alarm should go off in your head telling you that they are behind it or complicit and are spinning a massive lie for the public's benefit. So here we go again!

    I'll try to find the source and will add it here.
    cursichella1


    Qui tacet consentit

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Please do not post graphic pictures without warning. its upsetting and nor called for. I didnt need to see that.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    There was a separate thread on this recently...worth a second look considering all of the 7's connected to the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed in Ukraine. Many see Lagarde's speech (or numerology lesson) as having been a "heads up" for the cabal about an upcoming false flag. Maybe it was for both Malaysia flights. In any event, I find her little chat to be very bizarre & creepy.

    Quote Here’s a video from Christine Lagarde of the alleged-Illuminati-affiliated International Monetary Fund (IMF) walking through some numerology, 7′s, and 2014. The point is that even professionals at this level talk about this type of stuff; perhaps even projected events this way. Magic involves taking the personal will and shaping the universe around it. Using numbers and symbols helps the practitioner accomplish this. Big ups to MMS for giving me the link on this one:


    “7″ references:
    1:22 – “Now I’m going to test your numerology skills by asking you to think about the magic seven”
    1:34 – “Most of you will know that seven is quite a number
    2:24 – “2014, you drop the zero, fourteen, two times, seven”
    4:08 – “It will mark the 70th anniversary, 70th anniversary, drop the zero, seven, of the Bretton Woods Conference that actually gave birth to the IMF” (7 + 0 = 7)
    4:22 – “And it will be the 25th anniversary of the fall of the berlin wall, 25th..” (2 + 5 = 7)
    4:38 – “It will also mark the 7th anniversary of the financial market jietters”
    5:08 – “After those seven miserable years, weak and fragile”
    5:14 – “We have seven strong years”
    5:43 – “Now I don’t know if the G7 will have anything to do with it” (G is also the 7th letter of the alphabet)

    “2014″ references:
    1:18 – “The global economy and what we should expect for 2014″
    2:19 – “So if we think about 2014″
    2:24 – “2014, you drop the zero, fourteen, two times, seven”
    3:54 – “So 2014 will be a milestone and hopefully a magic year in ma(n)y respects”
    5:05 – “So my hope and my wish for 2014″
    Occult Message in Speech by Christine Lagarde of IMF (An admitted numerological seven fest...)





    http://illuminatiwatcher.com/malaysi...racy-theories/

    Original Avalon thread: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post849673

    p.s. And maybe if I wasn't reading the thread backward I would have realized "Sigma6" and "Christine" had already touched on this!
    Last edited by cursichella1; 18th July 2014 at 08:57.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07...-over-ukraine/

    Text below: (click link for maps and so no)

    Breaking: From Global Travel Industry News:
    ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
    This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
    The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
    Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
    Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
    Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
    Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
    According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

    Putin controversy continues:
    Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.
    LIVE UPDATES:Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine
    “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.
    “The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added.

    At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax’s report that was the first and the only media source to publish the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over Ukraine at the same time.
    As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped neighboring country.
    “Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a while,” the source at Vnukovo-3 terminal said.
    President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the BRICS summit, to Moscow.
    ‘Tragedy would’t have taken place if there was peace in Ukraine’
    Ukraine should bear responsibility for Malaysian airliner tragedy, said the head of the Russian state at a meeting on economic issues, which he proposed to start with a minute of silence in memory of the victims of the disaster.

    Israel:
    Finger pointed at Israel: Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, former Jesuit and confirmed “nutter” let his Israeli handlers put his “nutters” in the ringer this time. “They” chose the weakest minded western leader possible to peddle an outlandish story, one that leads back to Tel Aviv, increasingly recognized as the puppet masters behind the Kiev junta.
    Australian PM: ‘Russian-Backed Rebels’ Appear To Be Behind Malaysia Plane Crash
    Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Friday that “Russian-backed rebels” appeared to be behind the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jetliner over eastern Ukraine
    Unconfirmed: Malaysian plane mistaken for Putin’s private jet which had flown over the area only moments before, leaving Israel and the Kiev junta as prime suspects. This may well have been an assassination attempt on Putin.
    We have people on the scene now (1:45PM EST) who have found a bag of passports and medical equipment. We will keep you updated.
    With the beginning of the Israeli ground attack on Gaza, might they well claim the plane was:
    1: An “Egyptian horse barge,” shot down by mistake
    2: Spying on Israeli troop movements
    (ref: USS Liberty Israeli cover stories)
    From Mike Harris:
    Malaysia hosted the war crimes tribunals which found George W Bush and company guilty as well as Israel guilty of war crimes, perhaps this is why they were targeted.
    Update: If, as claimed a BUK missile was fired at Putin’s plane. President Putin’s version of Air Force One has extensive ECM modules capable of jamming incoming missiles. Were a missile fired at them and it locked on, ECM, as with America’s “Air Force One,” would jam the missile systems. It is also likely that Russia has a “back door” into all systems they build, such as the one the “Ukies” had deployed outside Donetsk..
    We have no confirmation that Putin’s plane had a fighter escort but are assuming it did not. Were a missile to have hit the Malaysian plane, evidence will be easily discernible and missile wreckage should already have been found.
    As to whether an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile is found to be the culprit, we should know in hours unless that is suppressed. Either way, John McCain’s childish threats, to only go after those responsible if they happen to be enemies of his “handlers,” was an unwise statement.
    _____________________________
    Initial stories, traced back to Israeli intelligence, that a Russian jet is responsible for downing the Malaysian Airlines 777 with all aboard, are being disseminated to anyone stupid enough to listen. Showing their hand this early is a monumental blunder.

    Real “non 9/11″ plane wreckage
    Here is what we have so far, unconfirmed. An American built F 15 fighter took off from an airfield in Azerbaijan. Back in 2010, Azerbaijan claimed that this and one other airfield was taken over by Armenian militants.
    However, these two facilities were home to Israeli aircraft that relocated there as while participating in training exercises with the Turkish Air Force. Turkey allowed Israel to train pilots in strategic bombing in areas selected because they closely resembled potential Israeli targets in Iran.

    Real “non 9/11″ air crash evidence
    Israel would send 8 aircraft in for training with the Turks, 6 would return to Israel, two went on to Azerbaijan in preparation for a planned air assault on Iran. To aid this effort, Saudi Arabia put out cover stories stating that it had denied Israeli requests to cross their territory to attack Iran.
    These bases are supplied through the Georgian seaport of Poti. Armaments for the “attack that never happened” were offloaded in Poti by the USS Grapple in 2010 and shipped with help of Chechen extremists working with the Jamestown Foundation and Rand Corporation.

    What wasn’t on the Pentagon lawn…
    Those two organizations were recently found to be working with groups in Turkey in support of ISIS operations in Iraq as reported by Jeffrey Silverman, Veterans Today Bureau Chief working out of Tbilisi.
    The reason for the attack on the airliner is not clear and can only be speculated on. This is an extremely serious incident. Pro-Russian separatists in the Ukraine have no air defense systems capable of operating that high, or a need for them with air ground attack being their main concern.
    US surveillance which includes AWAC, drones and satellites is capable of detecting the launch of any air defense missile, ground based, capable of reaching the necessary 32,000 foot altitude.

    real evidence doesn’t “disappear”
    Such a weapon would have been spotted in seconds and, as all such systems in the region are under continual surveillance due to the sensitive nature of the conflict and the history of allegations made, making claims we expect to be made outlandish.
    There are questions. Why two Malaysian Airlines planes? If someone or something so threatening that this act was seen as ”reasonable and justified,” even by the Israelis, was undertaken, we will never hear the truth. Minimally, biological or chemical agents capable of global holocaust would have to have been onboard.
    After the disappearance of Flight 370, author Chris Bollyn published photographs of a plane that looked identical to flight 370 stating that plane was in Israel and was likely to be used by that nation in a terror attack. The story, both fascinating and yet reeking of wild conspiracy theory, dominated alternative media for some time. There is now serious reason to reassess the story, why was it written, what were the sources and was it simply a hoax or tied to something far more serious.
    The only other possibility is destabilization of the region and to push for a world war. It is reasonable to suggest that an Israeli plane was involved because we know they have the only clandestine capability within the region.
    As to the plot or reason, simply blaming Israel is not supportable, no more than blaming Hamas for murdering the 3 children a few short weeks ago.
    Thus, we assume these as high probability:
    An aircraft was used, most likely an American built F15 because of range and capability.
    Azerbaijan was used because we know of clandestine bases there, which were confirmed by military officers who defected to Iran in 2013.
    We know Israel has some role, yet undefined, because they are spreading stories blaming Russia.
    As this is a second Malaysian Airlines plane to go down, we look for false stories regarding Israel and Malaysian planes and reassess their meaning.
    As is always the case, que bono, who benefits?
    We ask readers to watch the world news and those in the region, report directly to our bureau there.
    ___________________________

    Who shot down the Malaysian jet over Ukraine?
    Fri, Jul 18, 2014
    Phenomenon of Terrorism, Ukraine
    By ORIENTAL REVIEW

    On July 17, 2014 the madness of three-month-long Ukrainian military conflict in the East has brought the first shocking international consequence. At 3.20PM GMT the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 jet flight #MH-17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur disappeared inside the Ukrainian airspace right above the area of intense military combat in Donetsk region and crushed near Grabovo village, around 60 km to the east from Donetsk. All 285 passengers and 15 crew members have reportedly died.
    According to data available the airliner “was moving at the altitude of 10,600 meters on the 350th flight level”. This flight level was opened for international transit flights, despite since July 8, 2014 the Ukrainian aviation authorities “did not recommend” international transit flights in the area below 302th level i.e. 9600 meters due to the “anti-terrorist operation” unleashed in the area involving Ukrainian pursuit aviation and air-defense capabilities in action. So formally the Malaysian company complied with the ruling of Ukrainian civil aviation authority although the security risk for the flight was evident.
    The area of the catastrophe is indeed the epicentre of the ongoing fierce fighting between regular Ukrainian army units and rebellious armed militias of Novorossia opposing anti-constitutional February coup d’etat in Kiev. An informed source monitoring operational situation in the area has revealed earlier on Wednesday that a battery of Buk antiaircraft missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was deployed near Donetsk.
    At present, another battery of the same missile systems is being loaded in Kharkiv. The aircraft flying at the altitude of more than 10,000 meters might be hit only with weapons like S-300 or Buk. The militias don’t have such weapons, and cannot afford them as it was acknowledged even by the Ukrainian Defense minister Valery Galetey in a statement on another issue two days before the Flight MH-17 tragedy:
    “…a “powerful weapon” must have been used to down the plane flying at 6,500 meters, an altitude the shoulder-fired missiles used by the separatists can’t reach.”
    The Russian military expert Igor Korotchenko argues that the catastrophe in Donetsk was most likely caused by the incompetence and non-professionalism of the Ukrainian operators of the Buk systems during its testing after the battery was deployed in the new location. He said that the Ukrainian antiaircraft unit did not have any kind of proper training for the last 23 years since the collapse of Soviet Union.
    What happened today is hardly the first case of “errant shooting” of the Ukrainian military on civilian air targets. On October 4, 2001 the Russian Siberia Airline flight #1812 Tel-Aviv-Novosibirsk carrying 66 passengers and 12 crew members was erroneously hit by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea during military exercises, which was eventually admitted by the Ukrainian side. No one on board survived.
    So regardless the MH-17 incident was caused by the criminal negligence and incompetence of the Ukrainian military or deliberate (and reckless) Kiev’s provocation to put blame on Russia, the strong international committment to make Kiev immediately halt its punitive actions in Novorossia until all the circumstances of the tragedy are thoroughly investigated is urgently needed.

    Location map of the point (marked in red) of the air strike against Flight MH-17 according to the flight tracking data.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    For your consideration....

    BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!




    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...n-flight-mh-17

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    [...]

    ******************************************************************

    Why the hell was it flying within a restricted airspace?

    Another 777 turned drone?
    Indeed, why off the usual flight corridor?

    Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?

    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/17/2014 20:55 -0400


    While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.

    Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.



    Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.



    So perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Breaking: From Global Travel Industry News:
    ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
    This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
    The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
    Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
    Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
    Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
    Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
    According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    BTW The huffington post showed pictures of bodies in their photo coverage of this crash. I don't recall ever seeing bodies included in any other crash site coverage. has anyone ever seen this before? I'm asking myself why the change here??? for what effect do we need to see this.? i asked my girlfriend in germany to look and her huffington post had the images blurred.

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