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Thread: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    Bill,

    Have you ever considered expanding on the priority thread idea? What if you, as the site owner and leader here, were to serve as an 'editor' of sorts and create some kind of category system? Something along the lines of Analytical, Reactive, Somatic? rate the threads as Definitely pertinent to awakening/truth seeking, Moderately relevant and everything else? I am sure you could find better descriptions than what I pose, but it might be helpful in noise reduction to have someone with laser precision set some social conventions? I could see members eventually going with the flow and ultimately understanding where their thread fits with respect to how it better serves the purpose of the forum? Just a suggestion.
    A few thoughts:

    Members enthusiastically posting threads in not-quite-the-right place is occasionally a problem, yes. I'm almost every day moving new threads in General Discussion to more accurately descriptive sections.

    Prioritizing threads is always likely to be subjective and therefore controversial. And retrospectively, really hard to do... there are 76,700 threads to work through!

    As an example, the section called Books, Videos, Articles, etc., which some well-meaning moderator created many years ago, is quite redundant and of almost no useful value as a description. But recategorizing (and moving) everything that's in there would be almost impossible.

    All the music threads (and there are many of them) should probably be in Express Yourself. It feels like what's happening at the moment is that quite a lot of members are chatting idly (and sometimes noisily! ) to one another... as if everyone's kind of waiting for something to happen.

    I've done that myself a couple of times recently: posted something that was really very fluffy and inconsequential, kind of as light relief from all the seriousness. (I do that privately with the other moderators, too, quite often.) But we have to remember the mission statement we all have here, and maintain our focus... most of the time.

    It's a serious world, and these are critically serious times we live in. In our lifetime, we may even see the end of the human race as we know it. Joking around, and sharing music, is all totally fine, and is an integral part of age-old human tradition and culture in itself — but it's all a matter of balance.

    And always being aware of the signal-to-noise ratio is all part of that. Although it's a very human, passionate and compassionate community, this is not an entertainment site: there are plenty other places for that.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 4th April 2016 at 13:58.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    regarding priority threads:

    I have a relative who worked in a place where they tried to organize the place with respect to things that were urgent. They put red stickers on the priority tasks.

    Within a week or two, everything had priority stickers on it.

    That an effectual forum with a future.... possibly (for your consideration)... is a group consensus (averaged) system of data sharing and support, not a vehicle of personal unfolding foisted on all others as a overlay in those given individual personal hopes and desires.

    The very reason that 7 billion people cannot possibly live the life of tasting billionaire success in forms of excess that are both subtle and gross. The body may pressure us individually into such a direction of self as expression, but the world cannot handle even a hundredth of that desire ever coming true.

    This sort of thing, which is steeped in our individualism... as individual 'mostly closed' (external feedback loops are limited) buckets of mind and organics in situ and in motion, tends to cause frictive intrusion on some level or another.

    Ie, all 7 billion individual balloons cannot expand fully, in exploration of all, in a space that cannot accommodate it. The result in the given attempt is a more complex, varied and expanded noise level and far less societal cohesion (in some 'historical norm' ways).

    Facebook is a natural and expected 'pressure release area' exploration of the given individual and overall group's deep desires in such direction.
    Last edited by Carmody; 4th April 2016 at 19:24.
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    And always being aware of the signal-to-noise ratio is all part of that. Although it's a very human, passionate and compassionate community, this is not an entertainment site: there are plenty other places for that.
    This is about as subtle as a train wreck. My participation in a certain music thread was an attempt to validate an individual- to say, "you're important and I am going to pay attention to you". Whether intentional or not, PA does seem to draw quite a few very lonely people whose world view is already outside the standard societal mores, very possibly leaving this individual feeling very isolated. In this particular case, I sensed that if some participation and validation did not take place, that the psyche or even physical well being of the OP might be in jeopardy.

    I do, however, understand and appreciate your pointing out the irony. The intent was pure, but I couldn't very well say, "hey, I am only posting here because you are having a Harry Kiniption fit over this and I am worried that you might implode".

    So... how many other of my posts have you lying in wait, unaddressed , to point out my hypocrisy? LOL. Believe me, my posts are neither world shattering or all that good. Unfortunately. Just meat in the room.
    Last edited by AriG; 5th April 2016 at 12:43.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    And always being aware of the signal-to-noise ratio is all part of that. Although it's a very human, passionate and compassionate community, this is not an entertainment site: there are plenty other places for that.
    This is about as subtle as a train wreck.
    Well, I'm pleased my point wasn't missed!

    All I was really saying was that it's all about balance. Signal to noise, expression to information, opinions to facts, support to requests for a hand if someone's having a bad day... or a bad few months.

    My track record is pretty good in openly (behind the scenes as well) supporting members who are having a hard time. Sometimes, I lead the way in that. But I also hold an overview about what we're all doing here (on the forum as well as on Planet Earth), which is serious business.

    Any warrior knows that it's important to balance the encouragement, the jokes, the levity, even the music , with the sometimes deadly business at hand. This is not being dark or discouraging: it's just telling it how it is. Every soldier knows how important jokes are, the value of teasing, lighter moments, picking out absurdities. Yet at any moment one's life might be in another's hands. Some here will have experienced that, for real.

    Some members are suffering, very alone, and find it hard to reach out. For some, music threads will be alleviating and heart-warming: to others, they may appear superficial and shallow. That's not any kind of value judgement, it's an observation of the spectrum of human nature. Some people having a hard time want to switch off and tune out (or tune in). Others will value a serious conversation that's honest, straight, and dodges nothing.

    So, between us, we have to provide for ALL of this, and somehow keep that multi-dimensional (or multi-directional) balance. That's the only point I'm making here. Never forget those who are silent.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Bill I support your work for many good reasons. I always will. This is your site.

    What you say goes.

    Still, the most successful thread on this forum is itself rather fluffy, and enjoyed by many.

    You are too astute for me to point out the obvious.

    With respect, have a great day.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    I think you will find that most of the "noisy" members have also contributed to the "signal".

    Human nature.

    We have all been drawn here for the "signal" yet we are human ... all varieties and all that entails.

    imho

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    I think you will find that most of the "noisy" members have also contributed to the "signal".

    Human nature.

    We have all been drawn here for the "signal" yet we are human ... all varieties and all that entails.

    imho

    even the noise is important at a certain point, everything contains a signal, it's a matter of recognizing the pattern; that's all a "signal" is... a pattern we recognize.

    However, we are easily overwhelmed, so filtration has to happen at some point.... it's just a mitigation for human nature, or our psyche's nature I suppose.
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    I think you will find that most of the "noisy" members have also contributed to the "signal".

    Human nature.
    Yes... since the dawn of time, humans have always played hard and worked hard. It's most important in every possible way that we all do both.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Sorry that I missed your post, Bill. . . . a deep insight, to be more aware of the signal to noise ratio! (Not the easiest thing to do when one has to work, live in the 3-D daily grind, keep up the cliches & small talk with colleagues. . .) - thanks for pointing it out!

    Sometimes the motions we go through (I should speak for myself) seem so pointless, & like Waiting for Godot. I polish up my grammar across a couple of languages, file my nails to the perfect shape to play the guitar, download scores, slot them neatly into plastic folders, read, browse the web, do yoga. . . . all the while semi-aware that it's all just vanity. I think we are only really awake in the face of danger or death. . . . maybe that's why we watch horror films & scare ourselves with disaster scenarios - to make us more alive in the moment.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Sometimes the motions we go through (I should speak for myself) seem so pointless, & like Waiting for Godot. I polish up my grammar across a couple of languages, file my nails to the perfect shape to play the guitar, download scores, slot them neatly into plastic folders, read, browse the web, do yoga. . . . all the while semi-aware that it's all just vanity.
    Women have it worse, you have so many extra "social pressures"... but it's worse than vanity, it's also wasting your time and mostly not benefiting "you" at all (obviously some of it is great for you,, intense yoga for example).

    But we all silently agree to uphold these expectation & enforce them via our judgement of others when they fail to fall with in the "acceptable guidelines"... I used to think un-shaved legs (mine were exempt of course) were "gross", how hilarious is that? If all of this wasn't set in place to keep us divided and petty in thought then we certainly figured out a great way to screw ourselves over...

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    I think we are only really awake in the face of danger or death. . . . maybe that's why we watch horror films & scare ourselves with disaster scenarios - to make us more alive in the moment.
    Our bodies are designed to function at peek capacity when in danger; much different than the lazy languid state we float in when safe & wanting for nothing... As a recovering adrenaline junkie I can assure you that there is NOTHING like the moment you narrowly avoid what you are sure would be a terrible situation.. your body is flooded with survival chemicals and everything is vibrant, your brain seems to work faster and it is, well... addicting.

    We get a more minor reward set from other emotional states as well, I think this is why we can get so "caught up in the moment" on forum posting and leave logic/reason behind while riding a wave of emotion.
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    BTW, I don't do yoga to look good far too late for that! I've done yoga since I could walk. . . .it's just one of my daily things, I hope I didn't give the impression that I do it to fit in. By vanity, I meant something other than physical appearance, more in line with "useless" or "pointless", like a "vain hope", & the nail filing is for purely utilitarian purposes (playing classical guitar to the wall)

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    BTW, I don't do yoga to look good far too late for that!
    Oh come now, age & looking good are not tied to each other by any means, I have seen plenty of terrible looking 22 year olds and am married to an extremely attractive 42 year old (which I'm reminded of every time we go out.. the guys in these Caribbean countries are tenacious as hell & also obvious as hell... its actually pretty funny).

    I view each decade as like a new model, every model has it's pro's and con's.. for example the inexperience of youth is so frustrating to me I cannot spend very much time around the 20 something crowd (which is basically all of our volunteers).

    Quote Posted by kirolak
    By vanity, I meant something other than physical appearance, more in line with "useless" or "pointless", like a "vain hope", & the nail filing is for purely utilitarian purposes (playing classical guitar to the wall)
    Quote Full Definition of vanity
    plural van·i·ties
    1
    : something that is vain, empty, or valueless
    well, I suppose I could re-assure you, but it really depends on your view on "why we are here" if we are here to experience, then nothing you do is valueless, even the valueless has value as you can now recognize it as such and have experienced it.

    If we aren't here to experience, but for some other reason; then I suppose those actions (and probably many others, anything that does not line up with that purpose) would seem vain. Are you missing your purpose, or just having an experience?

    (is this noise, or a signal?)
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    .
    I have to post this observation:

    Just now in the first page of the New Posts list we have one thread about the ISS (International Space Station) being fake, TWO threads on the 'Event', one on Paul Ryan as the new president, another with 'Mermaids' in the title, one claiming that nuclear explosions never happened, and even "Do ETs exist?", which was asked seriously by an intelligent member, but which most members would agree is not the most intelligent question.

    Like, all at once. I mean, do we have something aimed at us at the moment?

    A remark to me literally a few minutes ago (best anonymous!) from one of the other mods:
    Quote such flooding with gibberish is one good way to ruin a good forum

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    I was thinking some of this seemed a bit shill-like, but didn't want to say anything.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Enola (here)
    I was thinking some of this seemed a bit shill-like, but didn't want to say anything.
    Well, yes. I guess a really smart shiil can do a great job of cloaking themselves to appear (a) pretty dumb, (b) utterly well-meaning, and (c) very persistent and enthusiastic.

    A person acting like that can do quite a lot of damage in a group. Whether they're a shill or not!

    One mod wondered a minute ago if it was the full moon. My response was that we may all be being zapped from the International Space Station.

    (That was a joke. )

    The above is a general comment just to make a point. But it's a serious one. I'm not accusing anyone of being a shill. But I am accusing a few people of being rather dumber than usual... whether knowingly or not.

    If we really are hit by a tsunami of rank silliness on the forum, we will (gently, kindly and respectfully) unsubscribe a few folks who are no longer in alignment with what we stand for. (In a few words: intelligent and open-minded, but well-informed and grounded, shared inquiry.)

    We've only rarely done this before — as in the case of Solon, for example, posting obsessively about the 'invisible sun' — but we certainly may do that again if things get too extreme.

    More good, clear signals, and less noise... please.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    The alt media is currently in the process of purging itself, and that is spilling over onto Avalon.

    Bill, I agree in principle, but the "Event" thread spawned some interesting discussion, with 90 percent of members bringing up multiple points that discredited the people pushing that particular angle of the agenda. As far as ISS goes, there are many videos with evidence of CGI fakery...

    I have noticed a lot of young people getting 'activated' recently. They go googling and find people like Keshe and Cobra, and then get sucked into those groups.
    Whether we like it or not, having these topics on the front page gives us a chance to debunk them.

    There are persistent myths of undersea dwellers, so mermaids may or may not be a viable topic, who knows?

    I have been surprised -for years- at the apparent disinterest from Avalonians on threads about grassroots food technology, water filtration, energy etc. You would think that would be a major priority for a group of people that claim they want to change the world. But instead there are meandering round table discussions on pointless topics. On the other hand, you have built up one of the best healing/herbs/nutrition archives on the whole internet. So it's swings and roundabouts.

    You can bring back more 'seriousness' to the forum by temporarily stickying 5-10 threads that you think represent your vision of Avalon, whatever that is... I think it's OK for the owners of a forum to curate their front page.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ce-in-Pictures
    Last edited by Daozen; 24th May 2016 at 02:56.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Daozen (here)
    The alt media is currently in the process of purging itself, and that is spilling over onto Avalon.

    Bill, I agree in principle, but the "Event" thread spawned some interesting discussion, with 90 percent of members bringing up multiple points that discredited the people pushing that particular angle of the agenda. As far as ISS goes, there are many videos with evidence of CGI fakery...

    I think the OP of the "Event" page started off on the wrong foot, with the planet appearing in our solar system thing. I think Kerry Cassidy made some excellent points about the "Event" looking like it could be talking about the folks/people/aliens from Aldebaran. Mark Richards in the Kerry Cassidy interviews states according to Kerry that there appears to be an influx of these people in Africa right now, apparently they are moving to earth and being given some kind of citizen status in South Africa.
    But as far as the ISIS thing goes, the objective of that thread is to state there are no satellites orbiting the earth.
    To this I can personally state I've seen a satellite just in the past year.


    About this time last year, I saw a classic 90 degree quick flying UFO in the South Phoenix area. After the craft departed zipping straight up into the sky a jet fighter flew over the area no more than a few minutes later, and then just a few minutes after that, I saw a bright light in sky, coming from the west and flying easterly until it passed right over the area I had seen the UFO. This bright light was obviously a satellite being scrambled in much the same manner as the jet aircraft was scrambled.


    Also, let me state something on the mermaid thing.
    Edgar Cayce stated such were created with the genetic experiments in Atlantis, much the same as Sasquatch.
    And in George Knapp's "HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER" it is stated in the Gorman Ranch area that there was a lake monster in the vicinity. A large serpent that the locals claimed was quite dangerous and had killed a few people.
    Now this wouldn't be a big deal, except that the lake was a relatively new water reservoir made in the late 20's.
    So, I will quickly connect the dots here. There couldn't be any hold over criptid from antiquity here, not in such a new lake. No, if this has any validity to it, this criptid would probably be crossing over from one of the regions much talked about portals. And if a portal can be accessed via a fresh water reservoir, I'm sure the vast oceans of the earth may have portals for things to cross over from another dimension's ocean into our world's oceans.
    Last edited by DNA; 24th May 2016 at 05:29.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    About noisy noises without signals:
    Information Anarchy Relief

    Posted on January 15, 2017 by Mark C. Rathbun

    The post-fact era of information anarchy has caused many people to be overwhelmed with useless and misleading information. That is causing us collectively and individually to make more irrational and destructive decisions, e.g. see the posts Has Your Mind Become Infected, When Distraction Becomes Catastrophic, Lulz Rules. Consequently, concentration and focus are becoming increasingly valuable faculties for maintaining a semblance of equanimity and increasing the effectiveness of personal time-management and productivity.

    One means of sharpening focus that I have read about recently in the works of Nassim Taleb seems to work, at least on a personal basis it has. That is, training oneself to differentiate ‘noise’ from ‘signal.’ Signal is the message of a communication – the substance of what one is invited to consider. ‘Noise’ is the carrier wave it rides in on often jazzed up to jar your wits, have your emotion override your reason, or is just plain alarming distraction.

    We most often see ‘noise’ in the form of appeals to emotion rather than to intellect or understanding. Emotion does and should play a role in the weight we give to data. But, when emotion is overemphasized and manipulated to override reason and interject deception: irrationality - and worse - results.

    In the past year in the US we have seen an unprecedented level of appeals to passion, prejudice, and particularly to anger (by both sides of the political spectrum). It has served in lieu of important issue education and understanding to influence decision-making.

    The noise to message ratio across established media and social media has risen to absurd levels in favor of emotional prejudice over intellect. Practice noticing the distinction between signal and noise and you might find that many ‘messages’ themselves are nothing more than ‘noise’.

    More means of recognizing and rationally evaluating message before getting distracted in and unduly influenced by time-consuming and potentially destructive noise is covered in Nobel prize recipient Daniel Kahneman’s book Thinking, Fast and Slow.

    One way is to learn to be wary of experts, particularly in the fields of politics and social sciences. Kahneman cites to clinical studies that evaluated the prediction reliability of the most commonly touted experts increasingly populating news and current events shows – those sitting on panels telling us how to view matters. Their long-term prediction success rates are well below 50% accurate when actually studied. In other words your chances of making correct decisions based on raw information – without relying on those ostensibly more qualified to make them for you – are better than if you waste a lot of time listening to those paid to tell you how to think. Taleb goes into this phenomenon in a lot more detail in his books as it pertains to economics and politics.

    Kahneman provides more information that can serve as another handy index. That is, studies have shown that – no matter how counter-intuitive it may seem – often the more absolutism and unyielding certainty an expert asserts or exudes, the less likely his predictions will be accurate.

    Another useful noise-detection tool is contained in Kahneman’s book where he covers the ‘availability cascade.’ Here is a short section where he defines the term and describes the pitfall which capitalizes on the human tendency to follow like sheep:
    An availability cascade is a self-sustaining chain of events, which may start from media reports or a relatively minor event and lead up to public panic and large-scale government action. On some occasions, a media story about a risk catches the attention of a segment of the public, which becomes aroused and worried. This emotional reaction becomes a story in itself, prompting additional coverage in the media, which in turn produces greater concern and involvement. The cycle is sometimes sped along deliberately by “availability entrepreneurs”, [i.e.] individuals or organizations who work to ensure a continuous flow of worrying news. The danger is increasingly exaggerated as the media compete for attention-grabbing headlines. Scientists and others who try to dampen the increasing fear and revulsion attract little attention, most of it hostile:
    anyone who claims the danger is overstated is suspected of association with a “heinous cover-up.”
    The issue becomes politically important because it is on everyone’s mind, and the response of the political system is guided by the intensity of public sentiment. The availability cascade has now reset priorities. Other risks, and other ways that resources could be applied for the public good, all have faded into the background.
    It is not difficult to spot availability entrepreneurs if you apply some of the tips covered above. An increasing percentage of ‘news’ online and on television is reporting on the reactions to ‘news’ and then reactions to reactions, and reactions to reactions to reactions, and having those reactions evaluated by experts, etc. If one could teach oneself to spot such and to identify availability entrepreneurs, one could be spared a lot of time, anguish and potential grief. And one might even wind up being a little bit smarter and happier.
    ================================================== =

    Regarding this point:

    Quote ... your chances of making correct decisions based on raw information – without relying on those ostensibly more qualified to make them for you – are better than if you waste a lot of time listening to those paid to tell you how to think.
    ... check this other guy's opinion and conclusion:
    Reply by the U.S. President to John Norvell, 1807
    To your request of my opinion of the manner in which a newspaper should be conducted so as to be most useful, I should answer, 'by restraining it to true facts and sound principles only.'

    Yet I fear such a paper would find few subscribers. It is a melancholy truth, that a suppression of the press could not more completely deprive the nation of its benefits, than is done by its abandoned prostitution to falsehood.

    Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper.

    Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.

    I will add that the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false.

    - Thomas Jefferson

    ... because the "... those paid to tell you how to think" are actually not appealing to any "thinking" abilities but to one's emotions or to what one "resonates" with without any actual "thinking" taking place... think about it
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    I would strongly suggest anyone who has joined Project Avalon in the last 18 months, please read Bill's first post in this thread. It appears as though the signal to noise ratio needs a bit of a refresher.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Joe from the Carolinas (here)
    I would strongly suggest anyone who has joined Project Avalon in the last 18 months, please read Bill's first post in this thread. It appears as though the signal to noise ratio needs a bit of a refresher.
    Yes. This is NOT an admonishment — truly! — but really just a reminder.

    The forum is huge now, with well over a million posts and getting on for 100,000 threads.

    As I and others have said many times now, this really is a wonderful, in-depth, reference library on every subject one might think of. One of the very best on the net.

    Many posts and threads over the last 8 years (since the present incarnation of the forum was launched, in April 2010) have been carefully and intelligently written, very well researched, and referenced with many interesting details. These gradually form more and more of the library for anyone to read and learn from.

    (And, another reminder: we regularly get 10-15x as many guest non-members as we get registered members who are part of the community. Some of them check in with us every day, and have done so for years. That's all part of the service we provide.)

    Why am I emphasizing this again?

    It's a request to members, including some of the newer ones, not to treat the library like Facebook, Twitter, or the opportunity to make what might look a little like YouTube comments. Of course, it's fun to have a little banter, or a superficial side comment now and then. That makes it all human, and that's important.

    But it's a matter of balance. If we have TOO much of that, then the valuable and important signals can get drowned out in all the noise.

    It's really a matter of conscious awareness. Here's a kind of little mental checklist for anyone making a post. (Not a big one! It takes 3 seconds to think about. )
    • Is my post off-topic?
    • Is my post really rather trivial, and likely to be a distraction?
    • Have I really thought about whether I'm adding value here? (Note: a good joke, or a nice compliment to someone, sometimes IS adding value.)
    • Have I taken just a little care with my post to see if it reads well, is relevant, and makes sense? (Always read it again AFTER you've posted it. All posts are easy to edit and amend any time later.)
    • And am I just thinking aloud here, but haven't got anyone to talk to, so instead I'm just posting and hoping someone might read it?
    Once more: it's a conscious balancing act. It's impossible to lay out a set of rules (and I've not done so!). It's more a matter of feel, sensitivity and awareness. This isn't a library of boring scientific journals, or dusty ancient tomes. But it's not Marvel Comics, either.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 29th July 2018 at 16:53.

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