Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[sigma6]

AUGUST 04, 2014

The Second Aircraft
Was Malaysia Flight 17 Shot Down?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/...-17-shot-down/

The fact that Russian radar spotted a SU 25 in the area where MH17 was attacked, has persuaded many that Haisenko’s analysis is credible. Adding to the controversy, international monitor Michael Bociurkiw, who was one of the first inspectors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) to reach the crash site and who spent more than a week examining the ruins–also appears to be convinced that the ill-fated jetliner was not hit by a missile but downed by machinegun fire consistent with the myriad bullet-holes visible on the fuselage. Here’s what he told on CBC World News:

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pock-marked. It almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire that has left these unique marks that we haven’t seen anywhere else.

We’ve also been asked if we’ve seen any signs of a missile?

Well, no we haven’t. That’s the answer.” (“Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw talks about being first at the crash site“, CBC News. Note: The above quote is from the video)

The idea that MH17 was downed by a surface-to-air missile (from a BUK system) is a theory that originated with the US government and spread by the western media. The theory has been repeated thousands of times in thousands of newspapers and TV programs without a shred of corroborating evidence. Needless to say, the repetition of a fable, does not make it true. The public needs more facts to determine what really happened. Unfortunately, the Obama administration has been stonewalling the investigation, preferring instead to use the tragedy to advance their own narrow political agenda by attacking Putin and smearing Russia. This strategy has clearly backfired as we can see by the fact that Haisenko’s analysis has caught on like wildfire convincing many that the missile theory is a fake.

Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw (First responder to crash site)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4

oh my, it looks like they're showing those "rusty" airplane parts again... hmmm

[jerry]

Was Putin Targeted for Mid-Air Assassination?
Exclusive: Official Washington’s conventional wisdom on the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down blames Russian President Putin, but some U.S. intelligence analysts think Putin, whose plane was flying nearby, may have been the target of Ukrainian hardliners who hit the wrong plane, writes Robert Parry.

TND Guest Contributor: Robert Parry

U.S. intelligence analysts are weighing the possibility that the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was a botched attempt by extremists in the Ukrainian government to assassinate Russian President Vladimir Putin whose aircraft was returning from South America the same day, according to a source briefed on the U.S. investigation.

A side-by-side comparison of the Russian presidential jetliner and the Malaysia Airlines plane.
A side-by-side comparison of the Russian presidential jetliner and the Malaysia Airlines plane.

If true, the direction of the investigation into the July 17 crash has veered dramatically from initial U.S. government allegations that eastern Ukrainian rebels, using a Russian-supplied anti-aircraft battery, were responsible for bringing down the plane killing 298 people onboard.

The Obama administration used those claims to whip up an anti-Russian hysteria that prompted European countries to ratchet up economic sanctions against Moscow, starting what now looks like an incipient trade war.

But the U.S. analysts dismissed those original suspicions because they could find no evidence that such a missile battery had been supplied by the Russians or was in the possession of the rebels, prompting a shift in thinking toward a scenario in which Ukrainian hardliners working with elements of the air force may have tried to ambush Putin’s plane but instead hit the Malaysian airliner, said the source speaking on condition of anonymity.

Putin flies in a plane with similar red, white and blue markings as the Malaysian airliner and was known to be on his way home after a six-day visit to South America. But his plane took a different route and landed safely in Moscow.

After the crash, as U.S. intelligence analysts pored over phone intercepts and other intelligence data, they began to suspect that the motive for the shoot-down was the desire among some Ukrainian extremists to eliminate Putin whom they had been privately vowing to kill – words initially viewed as empty bluster but which were looked at differently in hindsight – the source said.

If some Ukrainian authorities were hoping to ambush Putin’s plane, they also would have had only a matter of minutes to detect the aircraft’s presence and make a decision to fire, so it could be plausible that the attackers made a hasty decision to hit Putin’s plane before they realized that they had made a tragic mistake.

Blaming Russia

After the crash, the Ukrainian government quickly assembled some pieces of information from “social media” to pin the blame on the eastern Ukrainian rebels and the Russian government for what would have been a reckless decision to supply such powerful weapons to a poorly trained force.

The rebels denied having a Buk anti-aircraft battery capable of reaching an aircraft flying at 33,000 feet and the Russians denied having supplied one, but those denials were brushed aside by the mainstream U.S. news media and were rejected as well by senior U.S. officials. Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State John Kerry made the rounds of five Sunday talk shows to embrace the Ukrainian government’s assertions although the official investigation into the crash had just begun.

The following Tuesday senior U.S. intelligence officials briefed mainstream reporters from several news outlets offering qualified support to the claims by Kiev and Kerry, but some journalists noted the lack of any real evidence and the briefing’s curious reliance on “social media” rather than aerial reconnaissance, phone intercepts or other official sources. The absence of this corroborating evidence suggested that the case against the rebels and Russia was weaker than the Obama administration was letting on.

Yet, because of the high-level endorsements of Russia’s presumed guilt, the U.S. intelligence analysts are moving cautiously in developing their alternative scenario, said the source, who added that another line of inquiry still being pursued is that the Ukrainian military brought down the passenger plane simply to create a provocation that could be turned against the rebels and Russia.

But the assassination motive would seem to make more sense given the intense hatred expressed by Ukrainian leaders toward Putin and how Ukrainian extremists would view the murder of Putin as a giant feather in their cap.

Still, the idea of assassinating the Russian president by shooting down his plane – even if the attack were carried out by hardliners without the approval of top officials – could have provoked a major international crisis. Nuclear-armed Russia would have almost surely retaliated against Ukraine, possibly with a full-scale invasion which could have escalated into a dangerous military confrontation with the United States.

This possibility of a cascading crisis beyond the control of rational policymakers has always been a risk since the U.S.-backed overthrow of elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22, a putsch spearheaded by neo-Nazi militias though also supported by more moderate political figures. The U.S. State Department quickly embraced the coup regime as “legitimate,” but ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, which had been Yanukovych’s political base, resisted the new order.

Crimea, another stronghold of ethnic Russians, voted overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia, a move endorsed by Putin and backed by Russian troops who were stationed in Crimea, the site of the Russian naval base at Sebastopol. The annexation of Crimea was heartily denounced by President Barack Obama and U.S. allies in Europe, who began applying sanctions on Russia.

Meanwhile, the new Ukrainian government, which gave the neo-Nazis several ministries in appreciation for their key role in the coup, began calling the ethnic Russian resistance “terrorists.” New National Guard units, formed from neo-Nazi militias, were dispatched to intimidate ethnic Russians in the southern city of Odessa, where scores were killed when a pro-Kiev mob set a trade union building ablaze.

A Worsening Crisis

As the crisis worsened, several eastern cities in the Donbass region also voted to secede and an armed resistance emerged against the Kiev regime, which responded by vowing to crush the rebellion with an “anti-terrorist operation” that has included artillery and aerial bombardments against towns and cities held by the rebels.

On Friday, a Ukrainian parliamentary group reported that more than 10,000 people have been killed in Kiev’s offensive since April, a number far higher than earlier estimates.

Angered by the mounting violence, the Russians lodged murder accusations against two Ukrainian officials, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and Ihor Kolomoisky, a billionaire oligarch who was appointed by the coup regime to be governor of the southeastern Dnipropetrovsk Region.

Kolomoisky, known for his strong-arm business tactics including deploying paid thugs to intimidate rivals, is now using his fortune to finance paramilitary units, such as the Dnipro Battalion which is considered one of the most aggressive and brutal units in the “anti-terrorist operation” in eastern Ukraine.

Since the February coup, Kolomoisky also has engaged in a bitter war of words with Putin whom he publicly mocked as a “schizophrenic shorty.” But Kolomoisky’s fury toward Putin has intensified in the face of the Russian murder charge and other threats to the billionaire’s PrivatBank holdings. In private conversations, Kolomoisky has made angry threats against Putin, the source said.

Other Ukrainian officials have vowed to kill Putin. Ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a onetime Kolomoisky ally, said in an intercepted phone: “It’s about time we grab our guns and kill, go kill those damn Russians together with their leader.”

Though U.S. intelligence was aware of such threatening anti-Putin rhetoric via American intercepts, the rants were not taken seriously, at least not until after the shoot-down of the Malaysian airliner, the source said. Now, they are reportedly being studied as a possible motive for the July 17 attack.

Another curious development was the sudden resignation on Thursday of Andriy Parubiy as chief of Ukraine’s national security. A longtime neo-Nazi leader, Parubiy had organized and directed the paramilitary forces that spearheaded the putsch on Feb. 22 forcing Yanukovych and his government officials to flee for their lives.

Parubiy refused to explain his reason for quitting but some analysts believe it may have a connection to the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down, the source said. The U.S. intelligence analysts specifically said their evidence does not implicate Ukraine’s current President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, but they did not extend that clearance to the more extreme elements of the government, the source said.

Russian Evidence

Based on technical evidence that Moscow has supplied to U.S. and other investigators, it appears that the Ukrainian military had several Russian-made Buk anti-aircraft missiles along the path of the Malaysia Airlines flight as well as two jetfighters in the air in the vicinity of the doomed plane.

Eyewitnesses also reported seeing one or two Ukrainian jetfighters near the airliner right before it was blown out of the sky. Two theories are that the jetfighters were trying to identify the plane or were responsible for finishing it off if the missile failed to do the job.

An independent analysis by an expert on the Buk systems, who has reviewed the Russian evidence, says it shows that one of the Ukrainian anti-aircraft batteries was in position to take down the Malaysian airliner by inflicting damage consistent with the wreckage that has so far been recovered from the plane.

As the pieces of this puzzle fill in, the image that emerges is of a possible Ukrainian ambush of a jetliner heading into Russian airspace that had markings very similar to President Putin’s official plane. As shocking as that picture may be, there is a grim logic to it, given the demonization of Putin who has been likened to Hitler and Stalin by pundits and politicians from Ukraine to the United States.

However, even if the U.S. intelligence analysts do assemble a strong case implicating an extremist faction within the Ukrainian government, there is still the political problem for the Obama administration of dealing with a conclusion so dramatically at odds with the original accusations aimed at the rebels and Russia.

Powerful people are notoriously unwilling to admit mistakes, especially when it could open them to charges that they rushed to judgment and behaved recklessly. There are similarities with the hasty U.S. conclusions a year ago when sarin gas killed hundreds outside Damascus on Aug. 21 – and the finger of blame was pointed immediately at the government of President Bashar al-Assad.

On Aug. 30, Secretary Kerry declared repeatedly that “we know” that the Assad regime was guilty, but some U.S. intelligence analysts were privately expressing their doubts and refused to endorse a “Government Assessment” which presented no verifiable evidence to support the accusations. The four-page white paper also suppressed the dissents of the analysts.

Over the ensuing months as much of Kerry’s case fell apart, some of these analysts came to believe that rebel extremists were likely responsible for the attack as a provocation to draw in the U.S. military into the civil war on their side. But the U.S. government has never retracted its allegations against the Syrian government. [For details, see Consortiumnews.com’s “The Collapsing Syria-Sarin Case.”]

Given how far senior U.S. officials have gone in heaping blame for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down on the rebels and the Russians, it is hard to envision a walk-back of those accusations regardless of the actual evidence. To compel that would require true courage from U.S. analysts or from international investigators looking into the crash.

It is never easy to contradict important people, especially when they have leveled such serious accusations so confidently. That is one reason why Kerry and the mainstream U.S. news media should have held back on their conclusions until a thorough investigation had been done.

[sigma6]

Ukrainian Soldiers Taking Refuge In Russia
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28652096

Despite strained relations between the two countries, the servicemen have been allowed to enter, including Ukrainian Jews! and have been provided with food and shelter. Yet the BBC is saying these soldiers are blaming Russia for the violence!?... Let me get this straight, they are being granted free food and shelter, they can come and go as they please, they can even blame Russia, live on BBC TV, who themselves were obviously granted access to go into the Russian territory and interview them. And they will have more security than the Ukrainian civilians who are being targeted in their own homes by the very soldiers they just fled from!!!

I don't know about you, but this shows a lot of honour and strength and character on the part of Russia... I wonder what would happen if they crossed the border into the US while attacking fellow Americans living across the border?... That would be so predictable given the paranoid Police State mentality of the US. They would have been immediately incarcerated as a potential enemy combatants, or as a spy threat and interrogated to dredge out every piece of intelligence that could be wrung out of them, and you wouldn't from them again from months and years...

The Times... They Are A Changin'...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=e7qQ6_RV4VQ

[Cidersomerset]

Ron Paul: US knows 'more than it's telling' over MH17 crash

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yf71VvDfod0

Published on 11 Aug 2014


Washington's being accused of hiding the truth about the Malaysian plane
crash in eastern Ukraine. Former US presidential candidate and congressman
Ron Paul claims the government knows more than its letting on.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Toxic Threat: Shelling near Donetsk chemical plant raises fear of eco disaster

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=c_JKdEADHKg

Published on 11 Aug 2014


Ukraine is at risk of an environmental disaster as Kiev’s army continues to bomb
the Donestk region, nearly hitting its largest chemical plant that stores lethal
agents. READ MORE http://on.rt.com/07u7bd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cidersomerset]

11 August 2014 Last updated at 20:49

Ukraine and Russia 'agree' to aid mission to LuhanskA young boy holds a loaf of bread as
residents of the eastern Ukrainian city of Lysychansk queue to receive bread distributed
as part of humanitarian aid on 27 July 2014.




Residents in Donesk and Luhansk are facing food shortages and power cuts due to the
fighting Continue reading the main story


Ukraine and Russia say they have agreed to a Red Cross-led humanitarian aid mission
to the eastern Ukrainian rebel stronghold of Luhansk.

The Kremlin earlier announced it was working with the Red Cross to send a humanitarian
aid convoy to the region.

The EU Commission chief has warned Russia not to carry out unilateral military action
"under any pretext".

Ukraine and Western governments had previously objected to Russia sending any aid
into the region.The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) confirmed it had
held talks with officials from both countries, and laid down strict guidelines to uphold
its neutral role in conflicts.

Ukrainian servicemen ride atop an armoured personnel carrier as they patrol an area
near Donetsk on 11 August 2014.



Ukrainian government forces pounded rebel-held Donetsk with artillery over the weekend
At least 1,500 people have died since Ukraine's new government sent in troops to put
down an insurrection by pro-Russia separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in mid-April.

The fighting has displaced hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom have fled to Russia.

Ukrainian forces have now encircled Donetsk, a city of one million people before the unrest
began, and residents are struggling without power or reliable sources of food.

Humanitarian convoy

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov confirmed on Russian TV that an agreement had been
reached with Kiev and the Red Cross on humanitarian aid for eastern Ukraine.

But the Russian military will not be involved in the aid convoy sent, President Putin's spokesman
Dmitry Peskov told the AFP news agency.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's press secretary, Svyatoslav Tsegolko, also said in a
statement that a humanitarian mission to Luhansk had been agreed with the Red Cross with
the EU, Russia, Germany and other partners participating.

US President Barack Obama confirmed that the US would take an active part in the mission,
he added.

The Kremlin did not say when the aid convoy would leave. The Red Cross acknowledged last
week that it had received an offer from the Russian foreign minister about organising aid
convoys to the affected areas in Ukraine.




A Ukrainian soldier walks past a damaged car which was used by pro-Russian militants who
tried to break through the checkpoint of Ukrainian forces, near the eastern Ukrainian city of
Donetsk on 11 August 2014. Ukrainian government forces say they are in the final stages of
the battle for control of Donetsk




People stand at the entrance of a makeshift bomb shelter in Donetsk, on 10 August 2014.
People in Donetsk have sought shelter in makeshift bomb shelters amid the artillery fire




Prisoner/smouldering grass A prisoner tramples on grass left smouldering after shells landed
at a high-security jail outside Donetsk The Ukrainian government in Kiev and Western powers
had earlier expressed concern that a Russian humanitarian mission in the east could be used
as a pretext to bring Russian military forces across the border.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen has accused Russia of using humanitarian
grounds as a pretext for military intervention.

In a telephone conversation with President Putin on Monday, EU Commission chief Jose
Manuel Barroso "warned against any unilateral military actions in Ukraine, under any pretext,
including humanitarian," an EU commission statement said.

President Barroso made a separate telephone call to the Ukrainian president to discuss the
situation in Luhansk, it added.

Pro-Russia separatists sparked a four-month battle with Ukrainian government forces when
they overran large swathes of the east and declared independence from Ukraine.

Ukrainian government artillery has been pounding areas on the outskirts of rebel-held Donetsk.

It led to the escape of 106 prisoners from a high-security prison on the outskirts of the city,
after the facility was hit by shells on Sunday night.

The fighting has also prevented a full investigation of the MH17 air disaster, in which 298 people died.

The Malaysia Airlines plane was brought down in the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine on 17
July and the remains of many of the victims are still to be recovered.

It is strongly suspected that the plane was shot down by pro-Russian rebels. Russia and the
separatists have blamed the Ukrainian military.

BBC map



More on This Story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28743478

[Cidersomerset]

Kiev’s Fake Picture Scam

new Tuesday 12th August 2014 at 09:24 By david-icke





‘Faking pictures can backfire badly if you’re caught. A government will only risk it when
the stakes are high, the risks are low, and there’s no other evidence it can use.

The best example is the notorious ‘Russian Soldier’ image, which the Kiev government proudly
presented to John Kerry as the long-sought evidence of Russian’s military involvement in Ukraine.

It inspired massive headlines in all the western media, and was only exposed as a fake when
the central picture turned out to be stolen from the Instagram account of photographer
Maxim Dondyuk – where it was clearly labelled ‘Slavyansk’ and not ‘Georgia’.’


We may laugh now, but the hoax isn’t quite as stupid as it seems. Precautions had been
taken against exposure, and those amateurish red and yellow rings served as cunning
camouflage in any image search, where Google naturally interpreted them as an integral
part of the picture. If it hadn’t been for a sophisticated image-identifier from Tineye, Kiev
would probably have got away with it and NATO might have been in Ukraine before May.

Even exposure didn’t cost Kiev much. The western media protected them, the NYT’s
ambiguous retraction was buried deep on page 9, and many people still believe the
‘little green men’ were definitely identified as Russian soldiers. Kiev lost little, gained
much, and proved how effective such fakes could really be.

But there’s a different kind of fake washing round the internet at the moment – one
where the stakes are low, the risks astronomically high, and where the effects on the
supposed creator can only be damaging. You know the things – those simple unmarked
pictures of Ukrainian atrocities which circulate for a couple of days before being
triumphantly exposed by Kiev’s INFORESIST as ‘retreads’ from Syria, Bosnia or Palestine.
Indeed, there are now so many that US government employee Julia Davis is show-casing
them all in a long-running series entitled Russia’s


'GRAPHIC PICS ON REST OF REPORT '.....


Read more: Kiev’s Fake Picture Scam


http://www.globalresearch.ca/kievs-f...e-scam/5395298


======================================================





Russia told by Europe not to send 'aid convoy' to rebels in
Ukraine as Kremlin accused of massing 45,000 troops on border
EC President Barroso rang Mr Putin today to warn against unilateral military action
Nato Secretary-General Rasmussen: 'Russia developing pretext for invasion'
Kremlin said Moscow would send help to Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine

By Paul Donnelley

Published: 22:20, 11 August 2014 | Updated: 22:37, 11 August 2014


President Vladimir Putin is sending an aid convoy to eastern Ukraine in spite
of a warning from the West not to use it as a pretext for invasion.

Ukraine has said that 45,000 Russian troops are on its border today and Nato
has added that it thought that there was a 'high probability' that Moscow could
intervene militarily in the east of the country where Kiev forces are closing in
on pro-Russian separatists.

Jose Manuel Barroso, the European Commission President, rang President Putin
today to 'warn against any unilateral military actions in Ukraine, under any
pretext, including humanitarian.

The Kremlin said that Moscow would send help to largely Russian-speaking
eastern Ukraine.

UN agencies say that more than 1,100 people have been killed including government
forces, rebels and civilians in the four months since rebels seized territory in the east
and Kiev launched its crackdown.


Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said that he was in favour of an aid mission as
long as it was an international effort under the aegis of the Red Cross and involving the
European Union as well as Russia.


Mr Poroshenko said US President Barack Obama had also backed the international plan
when they spoke on the telephone today.

The International Committee of the Red Cross had no immediate comment, although last
weekend it issued a statement acknowledging the receipt of an offer from Russian Foreign
Minister Sergei Lavrov about aid convoys.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3AAW4TRtZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


================================================



Lugansk Under Siege: Over 250,000 civilians struggle without water and power

new Tuesday 12th August 2014 at 09:26 By david-icke





Published on 11 Aug 2014


250,000 people have been left without water, electricity and communications for
over a week in the eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk. The town is subject to siege
conditions and under heavy bombardment - READ MORE http://on.rt.com/60v0lp

[jackovesk]

FLIGHT 17 SHOT DOWN BY RUSSIANS

10 Aug 2014 11:55 | Written by Kerry Cassidy

This past weekend I interviewed Simon Parkes at the Bases Conference in Marlborough, England. This was a fascinating coversation and I will be posting it in the next few days.

One important piece of information came forward from this interview which is that Flight MH 17 was shot down by a Russian plane because it was headed to a Russian city being armed as a biowarfare dirty bomb. The flight did contain bodies that had long been dead from Flight MH 370 and it was aimed and outfitted by the Mossad. Sadly the passengers were killed as 'collateral damage' in an effort to create a 911 in Russia with the intention of sparking WWIII.

This information comes from a man who has high level contacts in the British government. Simon Parkes, a British city councillor, comes from an illuminati bloodline. He was trained in occult Magic from a young age by his Grandfather, a British Diplomat and Freemason who worked for MI6 and his mother, who worked for MI5. More to come...

http://projectcamelotportal.com/blog...wn-by-russians

PS - Me thinks this is total

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by jackovesk (here)

One important piece of information came forward from this interview which is that Flight MH 17 was shot down by a Russian plane because it was headed to a Russian city being armed as a biowarfare dirty bomb. The flight did contain bodies that had long been dead from Flight MH 370 and it was aimed and outfitted by the Mossad. Sadly the passengers were killed as 'collateral damage' in an effort to create a 911 in Russia with the intention of sparking WWIII.

PS - Me thinks this is total

I think this is a bit far-fetched too....

I do find it odd though some mentioned some bodies seemed dead for days, but we haven't seen the cargo list and there may have been some dead bodies being transferred for burial in another country, or cadaver bodies for aids research, etc.

Dead bodies from MH370 in MH17?????????? dah, makes no sense to me. MH370 is probably at the bottom of the ocean somewhere IMO.....(and will likely be found soon).

[Hervé]

Well, I'll keep my $$ to buy ice cream, rather.

[jerry]

Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publis...le_67273.shtml

[Cidersomerset]

Ron Paul on MH17 downing and the crisis in Ukraine

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PbEyJl_hpVI

Published on 12 Aug 2014


Libertarian politician and former US Rep. Ron Paul (R.-Texas) told RT
that he believes the US has crucial information the downing of Malaysia
Airlines flight 17 that it is not releasing to the public. In an interview with
RT’s Ameera David, Paul expressed his frustrations with the politicization
of the tragedy and the “propaganda” coming from Western media, while
also questioning why the government has backed off some of its earlier claims.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RAW: 280 trucks with Russian humanitarian aid depart to E. Ukraine

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EWsg-T7Ao5U

Published on 11 Aug 2014


Trucks carrying food, medication, and drinking water have been sent towards
the border with Ukraine by Russia’s Emergencies Ministry on Tuesday morning.
READ MORE http://on.rt.com/7jfnjk



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia sends humanitarian aid to Lugansk after Red Cross approval

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1X_42KWokWg

Published on 12 Aug 2014


A convoy of aid from Russia is on its way to Lugansk, a week after local
officials declared a humanitarian disaster in the east Ukraine city. RT's Maria
Finoshina is on the Russian-Ukrainian border. READ MORE http://on.rt.com/7jfnjk

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Food Fight: ‘Latin America will not bow to EU pressure, will tighten ties with Russia’

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bBCg4vQP4wE

Published on 12 Aug 2014


The EU is reportedly planning to put pressure on Latin America to stop it from
boosting its agricultural exports to Russia. In response to sanctions, Moscow
imposed a food embargo on a range of EU products, and countries like Brazil
and Chile are being canvassed to step in and fill the gap. For more on this RT
is joined by Robert Oulds, head of the Bruges Group think-tank.

[Billy]

I did not merge this info with this thread. but will share it here.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...hot-down-MH-17


Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publis...le_67273.shtml

By Alex Lantier, OpEd News
OEN
Monday, Aug 11, 2014

An August 7 article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia's flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.

The New Straits Times article, titled "US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft," lays out evidence that Ukrainian fighter aircraft attacked the jetliner with first a missile, then with bursts of 30-millimeter machine gun fire from both sides of MH17. The Russian army has already presented detailed radar and satellite data showing a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet tailing MH17 shortly before the jetliner crashed. The Kiev regime denied that its fighters were airborne in the area, however.

The New Straits Times article began, "Intelligence analysts in the United States have already concluded that Malaysia flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a jet that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth."

It cited "experts who had said that the photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes -- the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with 'flechettes,' and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds."

The New Straits Times cited several sources to substantiate its position. One was testimony by a Canadian-Ukrainian monitor for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Michael Bociurkiw -- one of the first investigators to arrive at the crash site. Speaking to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on July 29, Bociurkiw said: "There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire."

Another source the paper cited was an article, "Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts," by former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry, who now writes for the ConsortiumNews.com web site. Given the lack of any evidence supporting US charges that pro-Russian forces shot MH17 down with a Buk anti-aircraft missile, Parry said, "some US intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault, and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings."

Perry indicated that sections of the US intelligence apparatus have concluded that US secretary of state John Kerry's claims that pro-Russian forces shot down the plane are lies.

"Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an 'extraordinary circumstantial' case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the US government was 'not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible,'" Perry wrote. "By then, I was already being told that the US intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry's allegations, and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military."

Finally, the New Straits Times and Parry both cited retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko, who has pointed to photographic evidence of MH17 wreckage suggesting that cockpit panels were raked with heavy machine gun fire from both the port and starboard sides. "Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through the panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile," Parry wrote.

The New Straits Times report constitutes a powerful accusation not only against the Ukrainian government, but against Washington, Berlin, and their European allies. They installed the Kiev regime through a fascist-led putsch in February. They then deployed a series of intelligence operatives and Blackwater mercenaries who are closely coordinating the various fascist militias and National Guard units fighting for Kiev on the ground in east Ukraine, where MH17 was shot down.

These forces now stand accused not only of stoking an explosive political and military confrontation with Russia on its border with Ukraine over the MH17 crash, which threatens to erupt into nuclear war, but of provoking the confrontation through the cold-blooded murder of 298 people aboard MH17.

These charges from Malaysia are all the more significant, in that Malaysia is not a strategic adversary of the United States. Unlike Russia, which already presented evidence suggesting Ukrainian involvement in the crash, Malaysia has no political motive for trying to discredit the US, the European powers, or their puppet regime in Kiev.

While it has not aligned itself as openly as the Philippines or Vietnam with the US "pivot to Asia" aimed at isolating China, Malaysia has in fact pushed for deployments of its forces in the South China Sea to contest Chinese influence in the area, in line with the agenda of the US "pivot."

Indeed, the New Straits Times and its sources are basing themselves on sections of US intelligence that, disgruntled by the complete lack of evidence to back up US charges against Putin and fearing catastrophic military escalation, have criticized Washington's handling of the crisis (see: "Former US intelligence personnel challenge Obama to present evidence of Russian complicity in MH17 crash").

These events also constitute yet another indictment of the Western media, who have completely blacked out the investigation of the crash of MH17 and the latest material in the New Straits Times. Instead, the elements in the CIA and their Ukrainian proxies driving the war in east Ukraine have been able to escalate the confrontation with Russia and demonize Putin, without any of their unsubstantiated accusations of Russian involvement in the MH17 crash being challenged.

Kiev regime officials are continuing to stonewall the investigation, refusing Malaysian requests for information about MH17, such as the record of communication between the doomed plane and air traffic controllers in Kiev.

Read more here.
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publis...le_67273.shtml

[Hervé]

Still no 30mm nor 20mm gun holes here either:

Plane's upper nose holding the port windshield wiper stem.

Compared to:

From: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J...aft+window.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

'No physical interference:' EU denies pressure on Latin America over trade with Russia

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=AtHgYKHobOA

Published on 13 Aug 2014


EU has reportedly been pressuring Latin American countries not to up their
trade with Russia, after Moscow's food embargo came into force. RT spoke
with the spokesperson of the European Commission, Peter Stano.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

=============================================

'Senseless Violence': Sixty killed/injured everyday in E.Ukraine - UN Human Rights Council

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cpigBmHOUcg

Published on 14 Aug 2014


Many civilians are feared dead after Kiev authorities resumed shelling of eastern districts
in Lugansk, the city council reported - READ MORE http://on.rt.com/n5ge2n

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

===========================================

‘It is not about fear of death’ RT follows refugees from E. Ukraine to Russia

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yarX5XZJbZI

Published on 13 Aug 2014


Tens of thousands of people across eastern Ukraine have been forced to flee
the violence in recent months, most of them to Russia. Maria Finoshina followed
some of the refugees as they left their homes in the city of Lugansk.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air


====================================================




14 August 2014 Last updated at 17:38

Ukraine crisis: Rebel military chief Strelkov 'quits'




Rebel sources denied reports that Strelkov had been injured


The military leader of pro-Russian rebels in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk,
Igor Girkin - known as Strelkov - has resigned.

Alexander Borodai, the former PM of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic,
confirmed the news but denied reports Mr Strelkov had been wounded.

There has been heavy shelling both in Donetsk and Luhansk as Ukrainian forces
battle the separatists.

The news came with a disputed Russian aid convoy stationed near the border.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28792966

===================================================


As Russian Aid Trucks Near Ukraine, Mass Media Describe It As An ACT OF WAR!

new Thursday 14th August 2014 at 18:21 By david-icke

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=pV4Pp05eW6E

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RAW: Fierce tank battle rages near Ukraine-Russia border crossing

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oDDkBrkkpI8

Published on 14 Aug 2014


Anti-Kiev rebels seized control of a checkpoint south of Marinovka, near the border
with Russia, following a ferocious battle with Kiev forces in recent days. The anti-
Kiev forces deployed a sniper and anti-tank team, among other units, to take the
checkpoint. The bodies of two Ukrainian soldiers were identified, as well as four
tanks and one APC destroyed.

FOLLOW LIVE TIMELINE http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-ar...

[Debra]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)

Posted by jackovesk (here)

One important piece of information came forward from this interview which is that Flight MH 17 was shot down by a Russian plane because it was headed to a Russian city being armed as a biowarfare dirty bomb. The flight did contain bodies that had long been dead from Flight MH 370 and it was aimed and outfitted by the Mossad. Sadly the passengers were killed as 'collateral damage' in an effort to create a 911 in Russia with the intention of sparking WWIII.

PS - Me thinks this is total

I think this is a bit far-fetched too....

I do find it odd though some mentioned some bodies seemed dead for days, but we haven't seen the cargo list and there may have been some dead bodies being transferred for burial in another country, or cadaver bodies for aids research, etc.

Dead bodies from MH370 in MH17?????????? dah, makes no sense to me. MH370 is probably at the bottom of the ocean somewhere IMO.....(and will likely be found soon).

I've been meaning to say something here … about the claim of bodies being dead already for days. A very good friend of mine actually knew someone on that flight, MH17, so I take it that alive people actually boarded the flight …

Maybe there were dead bodies in cargo …?

[avid]

A lot of posts ago - we discussed this. Bodies are repatriated to various countries en route. On normal flights. Every day. So 'deader-than-dead' cargo may be normal, or going to be 'gifted' samples for research for a scientific conference. I have seen them loading up coffins at the main terminal in Manchester to repatriate the dead, lots of coffins on overseas flight cargo on lots of international flights. A vile view, but this is what you observe on international departures lounges looking inwards to the core of the main hub. They are definitely repatriating lots of dead daily all over the world. This will happen all over the world - repatriation of the dead. Absolutely a normal procedure.

However - we must always question that which gives us grief and torment and there are many links to the truth of this tragedy elsewhere.

[onawah]

That claim about the flight containing some dead bodies was already circulating before the Simon/Kerry interview, though Simon confirmed that, and also said that some of the bodies showed signs of torture.
I don't think it was claimed that all the bodies had already been dead, so no doubt they were in a different part of the plane than the living passengers.

[avid]

...............

[Hervé]

Radar SPOOFING – Spooky Stuff

“The government and media have always known radar imagines are always faked…”

—
By Gene “Chip” Tatum

—
Editor’s note: I asked Chip to do this piece based on his background with the technologies and how vital it is for the public to know that all information about plane locations, altitudes, speed or even plane type have been faked though EW (Electronic Warfare) modules for years. Thus, the radar tracking from 9/11… faked… the SU25s tracking MH17… faked as well, wrong altitude, wrong planes, maybe not even Ukrainian or Russian at all. An Israeli F15 taking off from Azerbaijan was “there.” Did it magically turn into two SU 25′s? We can prove it could have. What Chip proves is that efforts to sell government conspiracy theories based on faked radar is going to have to come to an end. We are busting them now.g
—
In 2010, Israeli fighters bombed a suspected nuclear materials site in Syria. Here’s the million dollar question: How did they do it without tipping off Syria’s Russian-bought air defense radar? Israel hacked the network.

So lets consider what means could have been used and even more, how technology has advanced in the last four years.

DARPA and the U.S. Air Force are prime users and developers of radar systems, using them for early warning during the Cold War, when the Air Force had both airborne and ground based radar systems deployed around the world to guard against and detect Soviet aircraft. Radars were and continue to be one of the most important pieces of equipment on modern aircraft. The faster and farther away an adversary can be identified and accurately tracked helps to give the pilot an edge that can be vital during combat. Electronic warfare techniques (EW and ECM) and technology have been in use since World War II and go hand in glove with radar systems. These technologies are often used to jam, counter jam, spoof, or confuse enemy radar operators and weapon systems, allowing the aircraft to accomplish their mission.

But what exactly is Radar? And how does it work? And better yet, how can you Spoof or Fool it?

[...]

But lets get back to the 2010 Raid on Syria by Israel. The system used for the raid is called Suter.

U.S. aerospace industry and retired military officials indicated today that a technology like the U.S.-developed “Suter” airborne network attack system developed by BAE Systems and integrated into U.S. unmanned aircraft by L-3 Communications was used by the Israelis. The system has been used operationally in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The technology allows users to invade communications networks, see what enemy sensors see, and even take over as systems administrator so sensors can be manipulated into positions so that approaching aircraft can’t be seen or seen in false positions ans false sizes. The process involves locating enemy emitters with great precision and then directing data streams into them that can include false targets and misleading messages algorithms that allow a number of activities including control.

BAE and the Suter system developed and used in 2010 have made major advances in abilities. Not only can the system Spoof location, bearing, heading, and target size, but it can also project misleading information on aircraft in the vicinity.

For example, let’s say for sake of discussion that a fighter jet was flying missions in the Ukraine against Russian Separatists. Separatists missile defense systems would readily detect such flights, identify it as a foe via the ground radar systems, and lock on in preparation for launch. The Suter software, however, could forward project data showing their aircraft in another location. The launched missile would then seek a hard target after launch seeking any hard target in the area. If that happened to be a commercial airliner, the missile would automatically lock on and destroy that target. If it could not acquire a target, it would search until fuel supply runs out and fall to earth.

Today’s electronic battlefield is more complex and deadly than ever-particularly when it comes to electronic surveillance and electronic warfare.


Full article: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08...-spooky-stuff/

[Hervé]

The end of the "30mm gun theory":

rolan, August 12, 2014 - 8:09 pm
The cannon theory is UNTENABLE/UNSUSTAINABLE.


The 777 having flown at 250 m/s means that every point A, B, or C of the aircraft shifted 250 m every second (A+250m, B+250m, C+250, ect.) WHILE the cannon was able to *only* fire rounds in the order of the tens per second. (Say 50 rounds/s = 3000/min.)


Admitting one burst of a fraction of second with the cannon, every next round would have hit in the order of the meters aside, next to the preceding hit, the 777 flying at 250 m/s. (250 m/s) / (50 rounds/s) = 2.5 m/round


Shooting at the 777 at an angle changes little (see trigonometry), the order of spacing of the rounds hitting the 777 would be still in the orders of the meters.


Is what observation of the cockpit and of the reaming body of the aircraft confirm?! **NO**


(And *finishing* the 777 off with a cannon makes VERY little sense JIC, aside NOT solving the initial problem anyway.)