The nature of suicide

[Carmody]

Read the book again, do not miss the part of it being clearly mentioned that: involvement is voluntary.

That one can wander off and do whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want.

There is no forced anything in that presented scenanrio.

[joeecho]

Posted by Pris (here)
Do not relinquish your power to anyone or anything.

If it's something you can hold on to or relinquish then it isn't you. Power or powerless is an illusion. Having or not having makes no difference in defining who you are.

Power fluctuates between imaginary poles in an imaginary dance.

As a sensory experience it is breath taking.

[Pris]

Posted by Carmody (here)
Read the book again, do not miss the part of it being clearly mentioned that: involvement is voluntary.

That one can wander off and do whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want.

There is no forced anything in that presented scenanrio.

Lol, well... I never finished the book and I don't intend to. I think there is force involved here. It's a mind-control/thought-control thing. It's subtle, but it's there.

Follow the group. Everyone is doing it.

'Hey, my family is in there! All my friends are in there! (Wait a sec, why are they all in there?) Gee, I can choose to go in there, or I can choose/volunteer to stay out here and possibly never see any of them ever again. Great choice!'

They're like flies trapped in a web to lure you in...

[Pris]

Posted by joeecho (here)

Posted by Pris (here)
Do not relinquish your power to anyone or anything.

If it's something you can hold on to or relinquish then it isn't you. Power or powerless is an illusion. Having or not having makes no difference in defining who you are.

Power fluctuates between imaginary poles in an imaginary dance.

As a sensory experience it is breath taking.

That kind of sounds good on the surface... but... apparently, whether we acknowledge it or not -- illusion or not -- we do seem to hold tremendous power. Someone or something is always trying to hold us down. Why would that be... unless...

Certainly, power over others is an illusion. The idea of 'having power over others' feels like lower-dimensional thinking/hierarchical thinking.

Maybe when you are all-knowing and all-loving, that kind of power is so all-encompassing it can't be defined. But, it cannot be denied.

[Pris]

Posted by Amethyst (here)
Act shocked, lecture on the value of life, or say that suicide is wrong.

That would never work on someone like me because I would have already decided that suicide was right. I probably wouldn't even be depressed at that point... but relieved that I'd finally made a decision. With all respect, who are you to tell me it is wrong? Of course, someone like me would never call a crisis line for 'help'.

[Natalia]

Posted by Pris (here)

Posted by Amethyst (here)
Act shocked, lecture on the value of life, or say that suicide is wrong.

That would never work on someone like me because I would have already decided that suicide was right. I probably wouldn't even be depressed at that point... but relieved that I'd finally made a decision. With all respect, who are you to tell me it is wrong? Of course, someone like me would never call a crisis line for 'help'.

(Just to let people know, those were not my words but something I quoted from a prevent suicide page, and that bit was from the part that sais what not to do when someone is feeling suicidal...).


I have thought a bit about this, and if someone is going to commit suicide, I do not want them to feel bad about it when they do it so that they die with those feelings...this to me adds to their pain, to feel like a "bad person" for not being able to take it anymore (or for choosing to die before a terminal illness gets to a horrible stage where they know beforehand that it would be a tortorous hell for them).

[Pris]

Posted by Carmody (here)
Read the book again, do not miss the part of it being clearly mentioned that: involvement is voluntary.

That one can wander off and do whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want.

There is no forced anything in that presented scenanrio.

Sorry, I realized I need be clear that I'm talking about 'wandering off' before going into the white light (at the end of the tunnel).

If you are talking about 'wandering off' once you're inside (in the place between lives after having gone into the light), it seemed very clear to me that you are given only the illusion that you are free to do what you want. They gotcha!!

[Imagine going into a balloon. There is only one way in and one way out. And, they control the exit.]

Time not being linear, you could go off and explore for awhile (inside this balloon), go to 'another' planet etc. (most likely a holographic planet they create just for you within their little concocted prison... or 'place between lives'). Anyway, the point is they 'bring you back' eventually (to 'school') -- within a reasonable amount of 'time' (say, a few hundred Earth years) -- to continue with their agenda which is your reincarnation.

[Natalia]

Posted by Sloppyjoe (here)
Suicide is something that is extremely forbidden except in very rare circumstances. A big reason we come to this planet is to develop our integrity. In the case of Robin Williams he fought with addiction and depression and just couldn't win the battle so he took the easy way out. Unfortunately for most suicides the soul ends up coming back to planets like Earth in worse conditions to do it all over again. Such a shame to see that happen but it does.

I have a feeling that this way of seeing it would, if you ever felt suicidal, prevent you from taking your own life? Or at least prevent you from planning to...? (I could be wrong)...

Antony Robbins, motivational coach, has prevented several sucides and he has partly done it by making them see that it would be a huge mistake if they did it...and also to help them to feel more hopefull about their situation...

It seems to me that different things can help or harm different people...

And some people, deep down inside, want to be saved or helped...

Suicide is not a black and white thing..

[Pris]

Posted by Amethyst (here)

Posted by Pris (here)

Posted by Amethyst (here)
Act shocked, lecture on the value of life, or say that suicide is wrong.

That would never work on someone like me because I would have already decided that suicide was right. I probably wouldn't even be depressed at that point... but relieved that I'd finally made a decision. With all respect, who are you to tell me it is wrong? Of course, someone like me would never call a crisis line for 'help'.

(Just to let people know, those were not my words but something I quoted from a prevent suicide page, and that bit was from the part that sais what not to do when someone is feeling suicidal...).


I have thought a bit about this, and if someone is going to commit suicide, I do not want them to feel bad about it when they do it so that they die with those feelings...this to me adds to their pain, to feel like a "bad person" for not being able to take it anymore (or for choosing to die before a terminal illness gets to a horrible stage where they know beforehand that it would be a tortorous hell for them).

Ahh. I see now. Yes, that was in the 'what not to do' column. Sorry about that, I read it wrong!

That definitely belongs in the 'what not to do' column!

Thanks for clearing that up!

[Wind]

Posted by Pris (here)
Then there's Ra. Channeled. Possibly, very possibly a trickster entity. Who better to declare they are not a 'trickster'?

Ra is very clever. How easy it is to manipulate someone who is psychic with a very high IQ and has ego issues... You can't tell them they are 'wrong' once they've made up their mind.

Karma? Judgement? I learned to question everything. I listen to my inner voice and all of it just feels wrong.

To me, reincarnation back to Earth with all my memory conveniently erased screams 'soul trap'!

On the subject of suicide, all the talk of repercussions, again, convinces me there are none except for those we ourselves believe in.

If it wasn't for Michael Newton's books, I wouldn't be here talking. If it wasn't for the Law of One material, I probably still wouldn't be here talking. That's interesting when it comes to your experience with the book. I don't know how you came to those conclusions. I understand that if you have a problem with channeled material, many do and for a good reason. When it comes reincarnation and the concepts behind it, you could have a case of cognitive dissonance.

When it comes to channeling, there is always a chance of intervention, but that's why the people behind made certain preparations so that a thing like that would have not happened and possibly it did sometimes occur... However, most of the material seems to be genuine and consistent. It's not a bible, just a good source of information. Each to their own.

Now I don't know about David Wilcock channeling the entity RA, because it was always said that only the three wanderer souls behind the Law of One material could channel the group collective known as RA, probably Wilcock was channeling some other entity or his higher self.

Karma isn't judgement, one should study Buddhism in order to understand the concept behind it. Law of One says this:

Ra: Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

We can choose to live as victims or responsible mature souls with understanding of the game of life. Absolutely no-one forces us to come here, but our higher selves choose to come here, because we want to learn and correct the mistakes we made. We are brave when we come here because we know that the challenges will be challenging and testing. The spirit world is wondrous place where learning does occur too among souls who posess higher consciousness... But only in physical form do we learn so much about ourselves and the universe.

Challenges make us grow as souls so eventually we may shine bright like the divine crystals we are. It will take time, but we have all the time in the world. Literally.

[Pris]

In 'Bladerunner', replicants are only given a four-year lifespan.

Roy's final words:

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like tears... in rain. Time to die."

Poignant... heartbreaking...

For decades, this speech summed up what I felt/feared about death on this 3D plane regardless of how it happens.
It still fills me with intense sadness/despair to this very day... even though, more recently, I feel that 'death' is not the end.

For me, it is a beautiful, cinematic moment. At the same time, I can't help wonder if it was deliberately concocted to evoke negative, helpless feelings in all of us surrounding the topic of death -- suicide or otherwise.

[Jake]

Peace be with you all. You have all touched on this subject with awesomeness!! Reincarnation is part of this. Let me ask you this, for your emponderment... What if I decide that in my next life,,, I want to come back and live this one again,,, exact in every moment... I am playing this one over again, even now. It is like one of my favorite songs, that a higher part of myself is playing over and again,, until i decides to change the song...

Love to you all.
Jake.

[Pris]

Posted by Wind (here)

Posted by Pris (here)
Then there's Ra. Channeled. Possibly, very possibly a trickster entity. Who better to declare they are not a 'trickster'?

Ra is very clever. How easy it is to manipulate someone who is psychic with a very high IQ and has ego issues... You can't tell them they are 'wrong' once they've made up their mind.

Karma? Judgement? I learned to question everything. I listen to my inner voice and all of it just feels wrong.

To me, reincarnation back to Earth with all my memory conveniently erased screams 'soul trap'!

On the subject of suicide, all the talk of repercussions, again, convinces me there are none except for those we ourselves believe in.

If it wasn't for Michael Newton's books, I wouldn't be here talking. If it wasn't for the Law of One material, I probably still wouldn't be here talking. That's interesting when it comes to your experience with the book. I don't know how you came to those conclusions. I understand that if you have a problem with channeled material, many do and for a good reason. When it comes reincarnation and the concepts behind it, you could have a case of cognitive dissonance.

When it comes to channeling, there is always a chance of intervention, but that's why the people behind made certain preparations so that a thing like that would have not happened and possibly it did sometimes occur... However, most of the material seems to be genuine and consistent. It's not a bible, just a good source of information. Each to their own.

Now I don't know about David Wilcock channeling the entity RA, because it was always said that only the three wanderer souls behind the Law of One material could channel the group collective known as RA, probably Wilcock was channeling some other entity or his higher self.

Karma isn't judgement, one should study Buddhism in order to understand the concept behind it. Law of One says this:

Ra: Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

We can choose to live as victims or responsible mature souls with understanding of the game of life. Absolutely no-one forces us to come here, but our higher selves choose to come here, because we want to learn and correct the mistakes we made. We are brave when we come here because we know that the challenges will be challenging and testing. The spirit world is wondrous place where learning does occur too among souls who posess higher consciousness... But only in physical form do we learn so much about ourselves and the universe.

Challenges make us grow as souls so eventually we may shine bright like the divine crystals we are. It will take time, but we have all the time in the world. Literally.

If it wasn't for Michael Newton's book, I probably wouldn't be here talking about this subject. 'My conclusions' are shared by many people. You just have to search the internet and you'll find plenty of people who question Michael Newton's book(s) for the same reasons I do.

I never said I had a problem with reincarnation. I said I had a problem with reincarnation back to Earth with my memories erased.

Lol no, I do not think I have a case of cognitive dissonance, although I appreciate your concern. May I flip this back at you?

Absolutely Ra seems to be a great source of 'knowledge'. That's the problem. If Ra is a trickster, then seeded into the facts are lies.

Karma isn't judgment... but, that's semantics.

And, karma does require belief. You have to believe that karma just is. You have to believe in karma for karma to work on you. Not believing in anything is a good place to start IMHO.

When anything is presented to me 'as the way it is' and in a way that seems overly complicated, I always question why.

Even the question of having a 'higher self'... How can I question that? Easy! A 'higher self' suggests I am now in my 'lower self' lol. I'm always put into a position to 'look up to someone or something else' ('guides and angels etc.') -- even myself?! That's too hierarchical for my liking. Actually, anything hierarchical doesn't sit well with me.

If I remember correctly, David Wilcock has channeled Ra... he's made some kind of a connection with a 'group' entity.

[Pris]

Posted by Jake (here)
Peace be with you all. You have all touched on this subject with awesomeness!! Reincarnation is part of this. Let me ask you this, for your emponderment... What if I decide that in my next life,,, I want to come back and live this one again,,, exact in every moment... I am playing this one over again, even now. It is like one of my favorite songs, that a higher part of myself is playing over and again,, until i decides to change the song...

Love to you all.
Jake.

Oooooh, I like that idea. I know exactly what you mean! No doubt there is a parallel universe waiting there just for you.

[joeecho]

Posted by Jake (here)
Peace be with you all. You have all touched on this subject with awesomeness!! Reincarnation is part of this. Let me ask you this, for your emponderment... What if I decide that in my next life,,, I want to come back and live this one again,,, exact in every moment... I am playing this one over again, even now. It is like one of my favorite songs, that a higher part of myself is playing over and again,, until i decides to change the song...

Love to you all.
Jake.

Aye, Jake! I recently mentioned this in another thread.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post865073

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4m2FhRv8xF0

[Catsquotl]

So I am confused, I have lost someone through her suicide many years ago.
At first i fell into the selfish thing, and the one where karmic returns are worse, the one where suffering more is a part of the suicidee fate etc etc..

Looking back Those ideas did nothing at all to help coping.
A few years later, and with some study and practise in buddhist meditation I can't help but wonder who would benifit from creating such a horror story for those that are left behind..

Also if there is no self, Then who is coming back to experience the karmic return?

For me I don't think suicide is bad/evil or even a set back. Like anything its a viable choice at certain stages in life. Wether to take that road or any other is as much as any choice, just that a choice and for some in certain stages one to be respected..

With Love
Eelco

[Wind]

Posted by Pris (here)
'My conclusions' are shared by many people. You just have to search the internet and you'll find plenty of people who question Michael Newton's book(s) for the same reasons I do.

I never said I had a problem with reincarnation. I said I had a problem with reincarnation back to Earth with my memories erased.

Lol no, I do not think I have a case of cognitive dissonance, although I appreciate your concern. May I flip this back at you?

Absolutely Ra seems to be a great source of 'knowledge'. That's the problem. If Ra is a trickster, then seeded into the facts are lies.

Karma isn't judgment... but, that's semantics.

And, karma does require belief. You have to believe that karma just is. You have to believe in karma for karma to work on you. Not believing in anything is a good place to start IMHO.

When anything is presented to me 'as the way it is' and in a way that seems overly complicated, I always question why.

Even the question of having a 'higher self'... How can I question that? Easy! A 'higher self' suggests I am now in my 'lower self' lol. I'm always put into a position to 'look up to someone or something else' ('guides and angels etc.') -- even myself?! That's too hierarchical for my liking. Actually, anything hierarchical doesn't sit well with me.

If I remember correctly, David Wilcock has channeled Ra... he's made some kind of a connection with a 'group' entity.

It's good to question many things, maybe all of them. I certainly know that I do, but I trust my heart and my inuition, it doesn't fail me like the mind (even a sharp one) does. I don't believe that our memories are being erased for malicious purposes. We are collectively being watched over by divine beings even though this planet has been under the opression of not so nice beings.

There is a veil of forgetfulness when we choose to be born here... If we all truly remembered who we are then we knew that we would be godlike beings, that's not just how it works here on planet Earth. Not yet... We have lessons that need to be resolved and that's why right now we are just these mere human beings with our little flaws and quirks. It's what makes life interesting and worthwhile.

Many things require belief, it's just about what you choose to believe in. I think that having faith is about trusting in something, but it's not good trust something blindly. You don't need to look up to anyone or anything else, only within. There lies all the answers to the mysteries of the universe. Of course if you're extremely interested interested in finding out the truth about the nature of reality (if there is any) then there are many places where you will find the information, but not all of it is correct. I see alot of totally distorted information, churches mostly have been responsible for that in the past. I too have a problem with authorities, only a few are worth paying attention to.

If something makes you fearful and lowers your vibration, then it doesn't serve you (even if it's correct information) unless you absolutely love to dwell in that atmosphere... I don't think anyone ultimately does. But there are many pointless fears too. Fear is a very powerful emotion like love is, but fear can be conquered.

You could see your higher self just as your guardian who is watching over you all the time. I just talk about straightforwardly things which matter to me. I don't really like to impose my views and beliefs to others because they have their own and I respect them as long as they're not harming others.

--

I wouldn't say what I'm saying if I didn't care and had my own rather intensely painful experiences. Once I was in a very dark place, very alone... But I couldn't bear the idea of causing so much pain to people around me and even then I thought that it would have been extremely selfish of me to do... Even now I feel shame about the thoughts I had then. But I so understand why someone would choose suicide, because of intense pain coming from the pain body. I don't like pain, but without it I wouldn't have progressed to where I am now. The price of the gift of birth is death and I welcome it when it comes, in due time. I don't have a fear of death, but as I said, I don't like pain. Yet there still is so much to be learned...

[Jake]

Posted by Pris (here)
I don't like pain, but without it I wouldn't have progressed to where I am now. The price of the gift of birth is death and I welcome it when it comes, in due time. I don't have a fear of death, but as I said, I don't like pain. Yet there still is so much to be learned...

I am going to quote this, and use it as lyrics to a song... This is the crux of it right here... Thank you, dear pris... My GOD!!!! Pain is necessary... I wonder if Fear works in the same way...

Love to you, pris..
Jake.

[Pris]

Posted by Jake (here)

Posted by Pris (here)
I don't like pain, but without it I wouldn't have progressed to where I am now. The price of the gift of birth is death and I welcome it when it comes, in due time. I don't have a fear of death, but as I said, I don't like pain. Yet there still is so much to be learned...

I am going to quote this, and use it as lyrics to a song... This is the crux of it right here... Thank you, dear pris... My GOD!!!! Pain is necessary... I wonder if Fear works in the same way...

Love to you, pris..
Jake.

Awww, you're a sweetie, Jake! But, this lovely quote comes from Wind.

If I may be so bold (or annoying) to suggest the following: 'The price of the gift of death is birth...'

[Pris]

Posted by Wind (here)
It's good to question many things, maybe all of them. I certainly know that I do, but I trust my heart and my inuition, it doesn't fail me like the mind (even a sharp one) does. I don't believe that our memories are being erased for malicious purposes. We are collectively being watched over by divine beings even though this planet has been under the opression of not so nice beings.

There is a veil of forgetfulness when we choose to be born here... If we all truly remembered who we are then we knew that we would be godlike beings, that's not just how it works here on planet Earth. Not yet... We have lessons that need to be resolved and that's why right now we are just these mere human beings with our little flaws and quirks. It's what makes life interesting and worthwhile.

Many things require belief, it's just about what you choose to believe in. I think that having faith is about trusting in something, but it's not good trust something blindly. You don't need to look up to anyone or anything else, only within. There lies all the answers to the mysteries of the universe. Of course if you're extremely interested interested in finding out the truth about the nature of reality (if there is any) then there are many places where you will find the information, but not all of it is correct. I see alot of totally distorted information, churches mostly have been responsible for that in the past. I too have a problem with authorities, only a few are worth paying attention to.

If something makes you fearful and lowers your vibration, then it doesn't serve you (even if it's correct information) unless you absolutely love to dwell in that atmosphere... I don't think anyone ultimately does. But there are many pointless fears too. Fear is a very powerful emotion like love is, but fear can be conquered.

You could see your higher self just as your guardian who is watching over you all the time. I just talk about straightforwardly things which matter to me. I don't really like to impose my views and beliefs to others because they have their own and I respect them as long as they're not harming others.

--

I wouldn't say what I'm saying if I didn't care and had my own rather intensely painful experiences. Once I was in a very dark place, very alone... But I couldn't bear the idea of causing so much pain to people around me and even then I thought that it would have been extremely selfish of me to do... Even now I feel shame about the thoughts I had then. But I so understand why someone would choose suicide, because of intense pain coming from the pain body. I don't like pain, but without it I wouldn't have progressed to where I am now. The price of the gift of birth is death and I welcome it when it comes, in due time. I don't have a fear of death, but as I said, I don't like pain. Yet there still is so much to be learned...

I truly appreciate your thoughts and you taking the time to talk with me. I'm with you on much of what you say.

Posted by Wind (here)
There is a veil of forgetfulness when we choose to be born here... If we all truly remembered who we are then we knew that we would be godlike beings, that's not just how it works here on planet Earth. Not yet... We have lessons that need to be resolved and that's why right now we are just these mere human beings with our little flaws and quirks. It's what makes life interesting and worthwhile.

You and I seem to remember that we are godlike beings (even God, you and I). We are certainly not 'mere' IM(not so)HO. I'm rather fond of our little flaws and quirks.

I'm not so sure about the part of having lessons that need to be resolved... This place may be a school. It may also be a prison... a prison for God-sparks. I'm quite sure we cannot be held here any longer... now that we know.

Personally, I want all my memories back -- intact from Day One. It's like I've had a lobotomy. How I agreed to this... it's beyond my comprehension. Somehow, I don't feel like I agreed to this... coerced into this... perhaps.

Then again... knowing me, I'd try anything once.