Our worst fears proven true - Snowden exposes GCSB & NSA's covert spying in NZ

[KiwiElf]

Our worst fears proven true
By James Robins, Yahoo New Zealand September 16, 2014, 3:34 pm

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/opinion/po...s-proven-true/

Forget Kim Dotcom’s stupid blustering and the obscenely misleading event he conducted last night at the Auckland Town Hall. Forget Julian Assange’s ridiculous rambling about the “deep state”. Forget Robert Amsterdam’s alarming speculation about American hegemony. Forget the Internet Mana Party’s opportunistic hijacking of a serious issue.

The whole affair was pointless in the extreme. It smothered the most critically important revelations to emerge about a New Zealand government in generations.

The Intercept’s report yesterday, written by Glenn Greenwald by use of Edward Snowden’s trove of leaked National Security Agency (NSA) documents, is a damning expose of our political elite which has deceived and mislead the public.

The Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) has used technology and methods created by the NSA which has undermined democracy and basic civil liberties in this country, and we should feel a deep sense of indignation that our worst fears have been proven true.

Some context: Last year, after it had been revealed that Kim Dotcom and 88 other New Zealanders had been illegally spied on by the GCSB, the Prime Minister promised reforms which would clarify and clear up surveillance law. That new bill was “not about expanding the powers of a mysterious intelligence empire," John Key insisted. "It simply makes clear what the GCSB may and may not do.”

The Law Society and QC Rodney Harrison angrily disagreed. The proposal was “inconsistent with the rights to freedom of expression and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure”, and the bill was forced through Parliament in a way that “degrades the democratic quality of the legislative process.”

Greenwald’s reporting has utterly vindicated this assessment.

Together, Snowden and Greenwald emphasise the way in which Key refuted public fears of an unprecedented expansion in spying powers, while presiding over an agency which was doing precisely that.

Rather than prosecute, censure, or even chastise those responsible for breaking the law in the first instance, the decision was made to use the GCSB’s horrendous breach of trust as an excuse: to radically widen the State’s power, and retroactively legalise the previous wrongdoing.

While waiting for the bill to pass (eventually by two votes), Greenwald’s reporting reveals the government was actively participating with the NSA to tap and probe the undersea cables which links New Zealand’s internet infrastructure to the rest of the globe. This is known by the codename ‘Speargun’. Wholesale collection of data (both meta and otherwise) was the chief goal, and we have every reason to believe this has become an everyday occurrence.

This is sinister and morally corrupt in the extreme.

Not only did the Prime Minister mislead the public about the nature of that law change, he continues to mislead the public about whether mass surveillance of New Zealanders has occurred.

This troubling fact was raised by Edward Snowden himself in an excoriating companion piece for The Intercept. “If you live in New Zealand, you are being watched,” he says. “The prime minister’s claim to the public, that ‘there is no and there never has been any mass surveillance’ is false.” [sic]

The validity of Snowden’s claim rests on knowledge of a program called ‘X-Keyscore’, a “wide-ranging” system which requires no court warrant and no prior approval of senior intelligence officials. There are no ‘checks and balances’.

The program, according to Glenn Greenwald, “covers ‘nearly everything a typical user does on the internet’, including the content of emails, websites visited and searches, as well as their metadata.” This can range from the wholesale collection of text messages, emails, and Facebook meassages, to precise details of travel plans and contact books.

According to a joint Channel 4/Guardian investigation, more than 800,000 financial transactions “either through text-to-text payments or linking credit cards to phone users” are intercepted every single day.

Some members of the public will no doubt concede that this is an important thing. Indeed, every intelligence program run by the Five Eyes countries is publicly justified because it ‘prevents terrorism’ or ‘defends against cyber-attacks.’

But this absolutely necessary protection has been undermined by the indiscriminate collection of anyone’s data. New Zealand’s principal spy agency plays a role in a global surveillance apparatus which consumes information regardless of merit.

There are justifications for mass surveillance which do not comply with the narrow definition of ‘terrorism’ or ‘cyber-attacks’: Various agencies have spied on private economic interests like the Brazilian oil giant Petrobras. German Chancellor Angela Merkel, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, and the Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono all had their private phones tapped.

Most alarmingly, ostensibly innocent and unsuspecting international organisations have been spied on, including the United Nations Development Programme, the United Nations Children's Fund, and Medecins du Monde.

What possible justification could there be for targeting non-partisan aid agencies?

After all of these revelations, after all of these admissions of guilt, the principal failing of our government is thus: they conducted their business in secret, subverting our undeniable right to information.

If the public are comfortable with their online connections and communications being hoovered up by vast apparatuses of the State, why would John Key not explain it accordingly? Why would John Key say one thing and do the complete opposite? Why would John Key lie over and over again if spying programs are so palatable to the public?

These are all remarkably important questions, and in the name of accountable and transparent government, we deserve answers. Now.

More from James Robins on Twitter: @James_ARobins

[yelik]

We should already know this, we do nothing about it so we have effectively given our tacit support to it ! Do we have a problem?

[ponda]

Here's the conference from yesterday involving Glen Greenwald,Edward Snowden,Julian Assange,Kim Dotcom and Bob Amsterdam that took place in Auckland.

They discuss such topics as - The Five Eyes intelligence agencies - The Export of US law - The militarization of Justice - The Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement -Mass Surveilance - Government Deception etc

Please note that the video begins at 21 min 55 sec

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=szGkFazYp5I

[jackovesk]

Posted by yelik (here)
We should already know this, we do nothing about it so we have effectively given our tacit support to it ! Do we have a problem?

Unfortunately Kiwis aren't the Smartest people on the planet...

They ((ARE)) or should I say ((HAVE BEEN)) the NWO's ((Test Case)) for a lot of their draconian policies and as per usual the ((KIWI's)) haven't battered and eyelid to Stop it...

In other word's the Kiwi's are amongst the most ((SUBMISSIVE POPULATIONS)) in the Western world...

So unfortunately absolutely ((NOTHING)) will ever change over there ((EVER))...

That Country has (Small Mans) syndrome and many-many other issues that they would have the get to before they even considered ((Standing UP)) against the ((Trilateral Commissions - John Key-Holed Agenda)) that has been implemented like "Clockwork" with no protest whatsoever..!!!

PS - Disclaimer: The opinion 'above' is based on ((FACT)) and said without apology...

PSS - KiwiElf, but it was something that I felt needed to be said...

[Limor Wolf]

Jackovesk, you are absolutely wonderful in putting someone down, I wonder if you can do the opposite..

(But how good is this Australian when is presented with such a challenge..?)

[jackovesk]

Posted by Limor (here)
Jackovesk, you are absolutely wonderful in putting someone down, I wonder if you can do the opposite..

(But how good are Australians when they are presented with a challenge..)

Just (Save It) Limor..!

Growing a little bit tired of your constantly (Missing the Point)...

Firstly my statement had ((NOTHING TO DO WITH)) any kind of Australian/Kiwi rivalry...

Just the (Facts) & my opinion of them..

But how good are Australians when they are presented with a challenge?

Australians like yours truly ((Got Rid Of)) the NWO's Toxic-Criminal ((Carbon Tax)) how's that for a Start...

Now, go ahead and name me just (1) NWO Govt. Big Ticket Item the Kiwis have got rid of..???

Just (1) anyone..?

I rest my case..!!!

[Limor Wolf]

Mission failed it seems..and a lot of carbon dioxide has been released to the air. Congrats for your past and present contribution which I would love to hear more about. But my 'not understanding your point' is refering to the less than delicate way you often chose to express yourself when it comes to others. For some reason this type of humor is being hidden from me.

Blessings ~

Limor

[KiwiElf]

Hi Limor and Jack - am having a big laugh here. Jack and I understand each other's sense of humour quite well Limor, and he (and yelik) are absolutely right in what they say. (and thank you for the video Ponda).

This has been one of the most scandal-ridden elections in New Zealand as far as I can remember, and only one week out from an election, the results will be very close. (Hey this is great... the populace is finally waking up!)

For we Kiwi's "in the know", we have always been in the Cabal's pocket and a servant to the USA. I guess we just don't want to have to face another Cabal-created earthquake (Christchurch) or the likes of what happened on 3/11 to Japan (tends to make us a little... subserviant! - We certainly can't afford another "disaster" on that scale. Weather-related incidents this year alone have exceeded the repair cost of the Christchurch earthquake - we are being "kept in our place").

But this is just the tip of a very big iceberg. It is causing an uproar here. Perhaps more Kiwi's have had a (much needed) wake-up call in the last 24-hours. Everything happens for a reason, It's about to get very... "interesting"

[Carmody]

jack, the point is that the vast majority of the people you may try to reach will dismiss you, due to your insults and phrasing. The only people you will get to respond are people who already know, people who are already 'yes men'.

The larger number of people you are needing (and trying) to reach are not ever going to respond to the kind of tone you utilize.

In essence, you are 'preaching to the pew' as they say. Beseeching the already converted. You are riding a bike hard, but the wheels are off the ground - surrounded by people who are in the same state.

You'll get to your destination a lot faster, if you slow it down and get some traction on the road in a way that more people are used to seeing and understanding.

I'm not saying stop being you, etc, but just consider the tone of the interactions, is all.

The people you are trying to reach are not the problem, they are the solution, thus..alienating them in the process is highly likely to take some of the effort you are putting in - and throw it down the drain.

[Limor Wolf]

Got it, kiwiElf, and thank's for clarification

Good luck to you, your success is ours as well

I know about the rivilary between Kiwis and Aussies, (that is because they are so much alike)

I guess this 'thorns hidden in a scent of flowers' style comments so very favoured by our friend above that he often choses to extend it to other nationalities, worries me a little for the sake of it's potential possibility to encounter a little less laid back and lovely atitude such as yours

However, I don't wish to derail your thread, I hope that future comments could be a little more considerate

That said, I will try to improve my own middle eastern humor from which apparently the heat and lack of water reseviors in this area turn it to be a little dry.

Jacko's very often quite generous stinging may not be suitable for all tastes and I am thinking it will only be fair to inform him about it.

Good luck with the revealing of elite spying machinations to the public on your part of the world, I like to listen to Vinnie Eastwood who is often quite vocal about that

Many Blessings ~

Limor

[jackovesk]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Hi Limor and Jack - am having a big laugh here. Jack and I understand each other's sense of humour quite well Limor, and he (and yelik) are absolutely right in what they say. (and thank you for the video Ponda).

This has been one of the most scandal-ridden elections in New Zealand as far as I can remember, and only one week out from an election, the results will be very close. (Hey this is great... the populace is finally waking up!)

For we Kiwi's "in the know", we have always been in the Cabal's pocket and a servant to the USA. I guess we just don't want to have to face another Cabal-created earthquake (Christchurch) or the likes of what happened on 3/11 to Japan (tends to make us a little... subserviant! - We certainly can't afford another "disaster" on that scale. Weather-related incidents this year alone have exceeded the repair cost of the Christchurch earthquake - we are being "kept in our place").

But this is just the tip of a very big iceberg. It is causing an uproar here. Perhaps more Kiwi's have had a (much needed) wake-up call in the last 24-hours. Everything happens for a reason, It's about to get very... "interesting"

Let's hope so KiwiElf...

I appreciated your "Correct" interpretation of my post 'above' and the manner it which the message was meant to be portrayed to all the Kiwis out there to ((WAKE the Fk UP))...

[ulli]

Posted by Limor (here)
Mission failed it seems..and a lot of carbon dioxide has been released to the air. Congrats for your past and present contribution which I would love to hear more about. But my 'not understanding your point' is refering to the less than delicate way you often chose to express yourself when it comes to others. For some reason this type of humor is being hidden from me.

Blessings ~

Limor

Many countries which were once colonies have created a culture where the only form of acceptable interaction is mutual teasing, and even insults may fly...and no one gets hurt.
The more formal stages of relationships are left behind as quickly as possible, as they are often considered hypocritical,
being associated with language of the colonizers.
This is my experience, having lived in countries which were once colonized by the British and Spaniards,
and fraternal insults are the norm amongst people.

[jackovesk]

Posted by Carmody (here)
jack, the point is that the vast majority of the people you may try to reach will dismiss you, due to your insults and phrasing. The only people you will get to respond are people who already know, people who are already 'yes men'.

The larger number of people you are needing (and trying) to reach are not ever going to respond to the kind of tone you utilize.

In essence, you are 'preaching to the pew' as they say. Beseeching the already converted. You are riding a bike hard, but the wheels are off the ground - surrounded by people who are in the same state.

You'll get to your destination a lot faster, if you slow it down and get some traction on the road in a way that more people are used to seeing and understanding.

I'm not saying stop being you, etc, but just consider the tone of the interactions, is all.

The people you are trying to reach are not the problem, they are the solution, thus..alienating them in the process is highly likely to take some of the effort you are putting in - and throw it down the drain.

Carmody, I understand what you are trying to say...

But I beg to differ, if you asked our ((Guests)) out there, I rekon they would say that jackovesk tends to get his point across quite well...

e.g. If you were out surfing with me and looking upon the horizon to try and spot the next set of waves and I'd just caught a wave from the previous set and was paddling back out to the line-up where you were 20-metres away and I saw a ((5m White Pointer Shark)) heading straight for you, do you think I should...

a) Whisper - Psst Psst sorry Carmody but there is a lovely grey fish heading you way

...Or

b) Carmody-Carmody SHARK SHARK get the "F" out of the water)))))))

Which one do think would get the quicker response...

PS - In all seriousness I read what you had to say and what Limor had to say or any other of the many Critics I've had over the years,

My posting style is what it is and that's the way its going to stay and make no apologies for it...

Overall, I'm extremely proud of my contributions here on the Avalon forum and for a so called (Cranky Old Loud "Aussie' Bastard) I ((KNOW)) I have woken-up quite a few people out there in cyberspace...

How do I know, because of the many-many PM's I have received in support over the years...

I might ((SHOUT)) pretty loud, but I can also (Back-Up) every single post I make..!

[jackovesk]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by Limor (here)
Mission failed it seems..and a lot of carbon dioxide has been released to the air. Congrats for your past and present contribution which I would love to hear more about. But my 'not understanding your point' is refering to the less than delicate way you often chose to express yourself when it comes to others. For some reason this type of humor is being hidden from me.

Blessings ~

Limor

Many countries which were once colonies have created a culture where the only form of acceptable interaction is mutual teasing, and even insults may fly...and no one gets hurt.
The more formal stages of relationships are left behind as quickly as possible, as they are often considered hypocritical,
being associated with language of the colonizers.
This is my experience, having lived in countries which were once colonized by the British and Spaniards,
and fraternal insults are the norm amongst people.

((ByJingo - By Crikey)) I thinks she's got it...

Ulli, there would be (NO OTHER COUNTRY) in the world I'd rather have as my birthplace, than good old "Australia" down-under...

I'm a proud Aussie who loves his Country and its "Down-To-Earth" people where you don't get berated for calling a ((Spade a Spade)) by speaking your mind...

Instead, its customary to (Throw it right Back in ya Face) so you better (Damn-Well) know what you talking about and be able to back it up...

It was ((Astrid)) who once said...

Quote: "Aussies? I just don't think ((THEY)) get us..!"

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by Limor (here)
Mission failed it seems..and a lot of carbon dioxide has been released to the air. Congrats for your past and present contribution which I would love to hear more about. But my 'not understanding your point' is refering to the less than delicate way you often chose to express yourself when it comes to others. For some reason this type of humor is being hidden from me.

Blessings ~

Limor

Many countries which were once colonies have created a culture where the only form of acceptable interaction is mutual teasing, and even insults may fly...and no one gets hurt.
The more formal stages of relationships are left behind as quickly as possible, as they are often considered hypocritical,
being associated with language of the colonizers.
This is my experience, having lived in countries which were once colonized by the British and Spaniards,
and fraternal insults are the norm amongst people.

I wish you would give some examples, Ulli , but seriously, I agree, and there is nothing like a good 'ping pong game' when both contenders know the rulles of the game and shake hands at the end. But there may be at times a hit in a very low point that is even lower than the usual 'under the belt'. As long as it is 'mutual' all is well. So it may be useful to make sure that the other is riding the same wave as you, before you begin ~

[Cardillac]

@jackovesk

"the Kiwi's are amongst the most ((SUBMISSIVE POPULATIONS)) in the Western world"

ALL populations (no exceptions) are SUBMISSIVE POPULATIONS; that's why this planet is in the predicament it's in-

be well all-

Larry

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by Jackovesk: a) Whisper - Psst Psst sorry Carmody but there is a lovely grey fish heading you way

...Or

b) Carmody-Carmody SHARK SHARK get the "F" out of the water)))))))

Which one do think would get the quicker response...

I have to say I liked this one

Why don't you just swim with all your Australian might and give him a hand?

That is what I like to know..


(Seriously derailing the thread, I think after we finish talking English with the many different dialects of it to one another this portion of the discussion can be removed)

[Snowflower]

Well...all I have to say is...

The United States seems about as submissive as Aussies or Kiwis. Doesn't matter anyway. No amount of protesting, demonstrating, or violence is going to redirect the PTB. Only absolute collapse will stop their agenda. Hopefully, Mother Earth will get her licks in to stop them too.

I like Jack's delivery method. It is straight talk, to the point and without euphemistic political correctness.

Now, about the original thread topic. I'm amazed that there wasn't a catastrophic "terrorist attack" with resulting fire burning the entire embassy to the ground that is protecting Julian Assange, and oh just so coincidentally, a mysterious ball of fire hurtling down on whatever building Snowden lives in. The more they reveal, the worse it gets.

I also wonder why it's taking so long to get the whole message out.

[jackovesk]

Posted by Limor (here)

Originally posted by Jackovesk: a) Whisper - Psst Psst sorry Carmody but there is a lovely grey fish heading you way

...Or

b) Carmody-Carmody SHARK SHARK get the "F" out of the water)))))))

Which one do think would get the quicker response...

I have to say I liked this one

Why don't you just swim with all your Australian might and give him a hand?

That is what I like to know..


(Seriously derailing the thread, I think after we finish talking English with the many different dialects of it to one another this portion of the discussion can be removed)

Your making me laugh now...

Why don't you just swim with all your Australian might and give him a hand?

That is what I like to know..

Confucius Say:

Shark a little quicker, than a man paddling on surfboard...

If I took your advice Limor, Carmody would be in even more strife...

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by Jackovesk: " I'm a proud Aussie who loves his Country and it "Down-To-Earth" people where you don't get berated for calling a ((Spade a Spade)) by speaking your mind..."

Have you ever been to Israel? Ha Ha, you will be eaten here quickly and without a salt.

Originally posted by Jackovesk:"Instead, its customary to (Throw it right Back in ya Face) so you better (Damn-Well) know what you talking about and be able to back it up..."

Such Rubbish, and I can prove it.


Sincerely, Jackovesk, I wouldn't mind to meet your 'honest self' in a dark alley any time, but not in the light of the day. Take of it what you will

I very much understand how difficult it can be to get outside of your comfort zone, but rest assured, you are not asked to play nice (god forbid), but GOD DAMN IT, try not to put people down while you are being 100% loyal to expressing yourself.

Yours Truly

(By the way, Do you have a good beer over there?)