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Thread: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

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    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Thank you all for your support, I'm going to dive right in!!

    Methodology and Research.


    These studies into the methods and techniques of Advanced Projectors are going to be a bit detailed. These pioneers into the study of ObEs are/were all quite successful on their own, and their studies can only be seen as a reflection of their passion for truth. These guys are Physicists, Doctors, etc,, all professionals and very analytical (Western) thinkers. (Though you wouldn’t know it if you heard them talk about their OBEs.)

    I’m going to skip past Galilao and past Newton. I’m even going to fast forward past Jung and Freud for the time being.

    Franz Anton Mesmer (1779) postulated a universally distributed and continuous fluid that could be received, stored and propagated by organisms, and affirmed that this principle was able to cure nervous and other disorders. Years later, J. H. D. Petetin (1808) referred to this concept as “animal electricity”. In addition to explaining what were later referred to as psychic phenomena, from the beginning the magnetic force was postulated to be related to bodily functions.
    Herewood Carrington took the ball out of their hands, and ran with it, causing a radical change in thinking, regarding the human body and its energetic makeup. A lifetime of research and exploration into the human body, and ‘psychic’ phenomenon, and the energetic body was enough to inspire more incredible works to come


    Herewood Carrington:
    In 1880, a man named Herewood Carrington was born in the UK. Carrington led a lifetime of investigation into psychic phenomenon and Spirituality. His research is held in the Princeton University’s Manuscripts Division, or you can request them here: http://findingaids.princeton.edu/collections/C1159 Carrington was an avid researcher into the claims of psychic phenomenon which led him to the conclusion that science does not have the research methodology to begin intelligent studies into certain phenomenology. In fact, in 1921 he wrote a paper called The Problem of Psychical Research http://www.unz.org/Pub/CarringtonHereward-1921 which basically outlines the problem that science has with regards research methodologies into non-physical phenomenology, starting with the question; “Is Psychical Research a Science?”. A question which is, of course depends on the legitimacy of the phenomenon. And when it comes to OBE, there is much legitimacy. In 1908 he wrote a book called ‘The Coming Science’ http://www.unz.org/Pub/CarringtonHer...02?View=ReadIt that gripped the minds of many future scientists. The Coming Science was a prediction of the blending of physics and science with spirituality, and a challenge to future explorers who intend to show the legitimacy of subjective experiences, even OBE. It was completely fringe at the time, but his efforts have come full circle today. His efforts did not go unnoticed.

    One of his more relevant (to this discussion) views can be found here: PSYCHIC PHENOMENA AND THE VITAL FORCE: HEREWARD CARRINGTON ON “VITAL ENERGY AND PSYCHICAL PHENOMENA” http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cli...al%20Force.pdf

    Published in 1921, it is one of the earliest attempts by a Westerner to begin to explain dynamic Subtle-energies and their source,, here is the abstract:

    Excerpts from an article by Hereward Carrington, entitled “Vital Energy and Psychical Phenomena”, and published in 1921 in the Psychic Research Quarterly, are reprinted. The article is discussed in the context of previous and later publications on ‘vital forces’. Carrington argued that metabolic processes, and life itself, were produced by a vital force that did not depend on the body for its production: this force could be projected from the body and cause physical phenomena, such as movement of objects and materializations. Carrington continued to speculate along similar lines in later years. While his views are in some ways inconsistent with the non-physical ideas developed by later parapsychologists such as J. B. Rhine, they remain a valuable window to past aspects of parapsychological theory.”


    The evolution of how what we consider to be vital/subtle/bio-energy will become paramount in my study!!
    Carrington established that if there is to be realistic research into these phenomenon, then a radical change would be necessary in how we approach objective, scientific research regarding mostly SUBJECTIVE phenomenon. I could not agree more.

    Here is the problem: If we want to study the OBE in a lab setting, who is doing the studying, the ‘projector’, or the guy/gal taking notes and observing? Certainly we cannot simply allow for a subjective experience to be considered to be a scientific fact, (we can’t just take the projectors word for it, not with science.) So the guy/gal in the lab doing the studies cannot make an objective observation one way or another, they are forced to go off of testimony..

    On the other hand, the ‘projector’ has experienced something that he cannot put into words, much less put into scientific words. The projector no longer requires validation of the experience, so thus ends his participation in the scientific model.


    Either way, Carrington was (is) correct, if we are to move forward, it is going to take a radical change in what we currently consider to be ‘scientific’ methodology. That does NOT mean that we turn our backs on logical thinking altogether… lol… Heavens No!!  I think that we are presented with an interesting challenge. And that is for each individual to become both the guy/gal in the lab, (open minded skeptic) AND the ‘projector’. Once one has been out of their bodies, there becomes no doubt of the legitimacy,, and the guy/gal in the lab will become an experiencer, instead of an observer. This is a profound change in how we approach science. Again, this is going to take the power out of the hands of ‘science’, and put it back into our own hands, and this is not preferred within the great halls of Sciencedom…

    Over the life of his research, Herewood Carrington wrote books and papers on such topics as; Physical Phenomena of Spiritualism, The Despair of Science, and the phenomenon of death. He was a man ahead of his time. And his work dovetails us into another story. A story of a natural astral projector named Sylven Muldoon. Carrington and Muldoon were the authors of one of the most popular, and early explorations into the OBE. It is called The Projection of the Astral Body. It is a bold exploration of the OBE, and It will be referenced throughout this exploration…




    Sylven Muldoon: [More to follow]

    Love to all
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Thank you Jake for this thread. I have procrastinated learning to OBE out of fear, fear of the unknown maybe, and moreso fear of being snatched out of the astral or worse. I know, sounds mellowdramatic, but I am ready and willing to throw my fear out the window and jump. So, I very much look forward to investigating this, and couldn't ask for better company than learning with others here that are also new to this.
    Much gratitude!!!

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Hi jake, on a more serious note than my last post I would like to ask you this: When I go to bed and try to get to sleep, quite often, I feel as if my entire system is switched off abruptly like switching off the light. Complete darkness and silence is all that remains. On every experience like this I think I have just died and I let out a loud roar of fright. My guess to what is happening is that I am conscious of the exact point of falling asleep. I then reassure myself that everything is ok and I normally just drift off to sleep slowly and gently. My question to you Jake is this: If the next time this happens and I don't get frightened after the light has switched off, what will I find happens? Will I indeed be out of my body or will I be dead? Seriously, have you ever heard of such an experience in the OBE records or anything?

    Stan
    If you don't follow your spirit without hesitation, you end up following your hesitation without spirit.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Jake, I'll be diving right in along with you.

    I'm fastening my seat belt for this ride!

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    I had this experience when I was 13 years of age that forever changed my life. During that time I had fragmented memories going through my mind that projected from another time playing in my mind like a broken record always happening the same way every time and I get glimpses of myself in these memories along with the people and scenery around me. My OBE experience put me on a spiritual path that has shaped who Iam today.
    Last edited by Sith73; 17th September 2014 at 02:57.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Thanks for posting the book, Jake. After reading the preface I downloaded it because it looks great! Here is something Muldoon says that I agree with completely:
    Quote I am well aware of the fact that one must first experience conscious astral projection before he can believe in it, and I confess that I should not accept it as true myself, perhaps, had I not experienced it and know it to be true. The sceptic says, " I want the-proof, the objective proof, then I will believe it!"

    And the projector replies, " You cannot have objective proof. You must experience it, then you will have the proof." The argument that the projector cannot prove to the sceptic that it is not a dream is of no avail; for neither can the sceptic prove to the projector that it is a dream. Thus argument is useless- as useless as arguing the matter of a first cause or a last effect!

    I stand on a clear-cut issue. I say experience it. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating!" I have not tried to conceal anything nor resorted to pseudo-arguments about the "dangers" involved, which is a common characteristic of most writers on this subject. I have given the specific methods for bringing about the projection of the astral body, as I know them, and I am willing to have the truth of my statements judged squarely by the results obtained through the practice of these methods. You want proof, and I say you can have it but you must experience it. You want to know how you can experience it, and I tell you how to go about it.
    I can do no more.
    That is very well put. We can describe our experiences but I have no expectations of anyone believing me, nor does it bother me if they doubt what I have described. I say, do it yourself and you will find out from your own experiences. What happens for me may not happen the same way for everyone else and that's because the potential experiences are unlimited and we each have different challenges to go through....or not.
    Alpha Mike Foxtrot

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.



    .............

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    There is one bit of important advice I would like to offer at the beginning of this thread, especially for those who might be intimidated by traveling out of body. This advice was critical for me to learn and I suspect for all as well. All souls are quite equal period. That means that anyone you encounter along the way, no matter how they powerfully present themselves, positive or negative, you at the very least are equal and in truth, greater in power then they are. This is absolutely true for any and all experiences encountered in the lower material worlds.

    Getting this fact deeply into my psyche saved my butt many times. Once you have a few experiences under your belt and have grasped this fact, your fear will disappear and so too, your intimidation factor will drop dramatically.

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    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    Thank you Jake for this thread. I have procrastinated learning to OBE out of fear, fear of the unknown maybe, and moreso fear of being snatched out of the astral or worse. I know, sounds mellowdramatic, but I am ready and willing to throw my fear out the window and jump. So, I very much look forward to investigating this, and couldn't ask for better company than learning with others here that are also new to this.
    Much gratitude!!!
    Hey, Sid,,, I'm glad you're coming along for the ride! We are going to cover the basics, then we are going to go for it. I dunno what to expect, but I know that with the right attitude, and a burning desire,, we will have positive results. Fear is the biggest barrier. Always has been. Conquering fears via the ObE will make many of the mundane fears in the physical, fade in comparison. It is quite empowering and humbling at the same time, if you can imagine that... No matter what, letting go and allowing yourself to experience the unknown will be exciting and a bit scary.

    I came into this world kicking and screaming. (who didn't?) I spent about a decade paralyzed with fear, and trapped in my bed vibrating out of control,, scared for my life!!! Many fears are justified, but if you adopt a mindset like I did, then you will be projecting your fears into the astral, and that is NOT necessary. It's not just fear of the unknown, but there are hidden fears that have been locked away, that have a tendency to manifest. One of the core skills will be to face down all internal fears. Many folks have not led a life where they internalize their emotions, but I have, and they bleed over into the astral. Also, many of the wonderful/amazing things that you have internalized will manifest too... There is a reflection occurring in the astral, therefore staying on task, with regards self realization and work, will become part of this.

    It's like someone who is 'scared' to quit smoking. There is no DIRECT fear here, but reflective fears based on insecurities and self doubt. Reflective fears may not cause the 'burning fear' that many times goes along with Astral Projection, but they will cause barriers whilst navigating in the astral. Reflecting on self, and self realization will become a core skill, or you may not get too far out of body.

    It is not too much to take in, I'm not trying to scare anyone, but there are real considerations to take in.

    Sid, you will be fine. Many of my dream-state-lessons had to do with being up on a mountain or a ledge or a tower, and forced with the decision to 'let go' or not. These dream-state-lessons would always apply to the OBE, as if they were OBEs that were being experienced/remembered via the dream-states.

    How we engage the Dream-states will become relevant too. Many projectors will 'exit' into an OBE via the LD (lucid dream) state. I have done it many times too. Once you recognize that you are dreaming, (if you can remember) you can use the LD state as a platform for projection too.

    We will do it together, Sid...

    Quote Posted by aranuk (here)
    Hi jake, on a more serious note than my last post I would like to ask you this: When I go to bed and try to get to sleep, quite often, I feel as if my entire system is switched off abruptly like switching off the light. Complete darkness and silence is all that remains. On every experience like this I think I have just died and I let out a loud roar of fright. My guess to what is happening is that I am conscious of the exact point of falling asleep. I then reassure myself that everything is ok and I normally just drift off to sleep slowly and gently. My question to you Jake is this: If the next time this happens and I don't get frightened after the light has switched off, what will I find happens? Will I indeed be out of my body or will I be dead? Seriously, have you ever heard of such an experience in the OBE records or anything?

    Stan
    Stan, I spent a loooooooong time in fear before I found out what this state was. You have described it perfectly. Most folks (when dropping into appropriate levels of trance) have the opposite problem than you. They spend long hours meditating and quieting their minds and just can't seem to be able to 'drop' into trance. Not without losing consciousness, and drifting off to sleep. The dropping into trance is a sleep trigger that will have to be reprogrammed for some. What is happening to you is that you are dropping into trance levels quickly and seamlessly. It can be quite startling. You are not dying. I know exactly what you are referring to. Yes it is very scary, but you are not dying, and you are not being abducted,, there may be a 'presence' in the room with you (or the overwhelming feeling of one), which adds to the fear. This is also the 'state' where muscle tone drops and sleep paralysis sets in. (Sleep paralysis is your bodies way of protecting itself while it sleeps. We can't just thrash around in your dreams, now can we?) Most people who experience sleep paralysis have the same thing happening,, they are dropping into deep levels of trance, without even knowing it.

    If that is where you are Stan, I'd say that you were ahead of the game. The next step is to grab your balls and go for it... (Had to make some fun!!)

    The next time it happens,,, try and 'push your fear down into your abdomen/stomach area' (that may not make much sense, as we haven't covered it yet) remember that you can't 'fight' the sensations or the paralysis. This is key,,,,,,, and this is my advice,,,, fear is a barrier, a thin layer that you have to move past,,, you have to RELAX INTO the sensations. Relax into them as if you were falling backwards into the biggest, fluffiest, pillow-bed that you can think of. Try and expect that you will fall into a soft warm safe bed. What is probably going to happen, is you will feel the 'vibrations' There is a vibrational state that seems to be a 'layer' like the fear 'layer'. Most projectors go straight past the vibrational level/state and the paralysis state and never really experience it. Those of us who 'fall into trance' very easily,, will have much to say about the vibrations, as the vibrations will become a big part of our journey. Have you experienced the Vibrational state? If not, expect it! The vibrations can be fast and strong, or they can be soft and steady, like someone shaking the bed gently.

    Try basking in the state that you described. It comes on very quickly, then you 'catch' it, before it carries you into the sleep-states. Something about your instinct has 'stopped' the dropping into trance, just long enough for you to take the reigns. Conquer the fear-barrier,, (just a little kid about to jump in the water) Relax into the sensations that come,, (if no sensations are readily available, you can 'fish' for some) If you find yourself paralyzed, or vibing, or in the midst of other energetic sensations, then you have already separated from your body,,, you just haven't moved away from it yet... lots of exit techniques (we will go over them ALL) but what I do,, is just move vvvveeeerrrrryyyyyy sssslllllloooooooowwwwwwlllllllyyyyyyy as if I were moving my real body,, and my astral body disconnects,, and I am oot'n'aboot...

    It is all a work in progress, Stan,,, you are closer than you think....
    I am excited for you.
    Jake.


    Being able to recognize and manipulate energy, carries over into the astral states. We will go over energy work in great detail, as this discussion unfolds.

    You are ahead of the game, Stan. Fear is a bitch... But you can use it as a tool, with the right attitude...

    Quote Posted by Sith73 (here)
    I had this experience when I was 13 years of age that forever changed my life. During that time I had fragmented memories going through my mind that projected from another time playing in my mind like a broken record always happening the same way every time and I get glimpses of myself in these memories along with the people and scenery around me. My OBE experience put me on a spiritual path that has shaped who Iam today.
    Sith73 I was born in 1973 too.. Also, some of my most potent experiences were happening around the age of 13 that set me on a similar path.. They scared the **** out of me. I was living in Yelm Wa, (on the JZKnight complex,, if you believe in coincidence...) I've always had an ET element to my OBEs. Though, admittedly,,, my mind does dwell there... The way in which we experience and internalize and interpret our OBE experiences will become the difference... Thanx for your input,, don't hesitate to post your experiences...
    Jake.

    Quote Posted by NancyV (here)
    Thanks for posting the book, Jake. After reading the preface I downloaded it because it looks great! Here is something Muldoon says that I agree with completely:
    Quote I am well aware of the fact that one must first experience conscious astral projection before he can believe in it, and I confess that I should not accept it as true myself, perhaps, had I not experienced it and know it to be true. The sceptic says, " I want the-proof, the objective proof, then I will believe it!"

    And the projector replies, " You cannot have objective proof. You must experience it, then you will have the proof." The argument that the projector cannot prove to the sceptic that it is not a dream is of no avail; for neither can the sceptic prove to the projector that it is a dream. Thus argument is useless- as useless as arguing the matter of a first cause or a last effect!

    I stand on a clear-cut issue. I say experience it. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating!" I have not tried to conceal anything nor resorted to pseudo-arguments about the "dangers" involved, which is a common characteristic of most writers on this subject. I have given the specific methods for bringing about the projection of the astral body, as I know them, and I am willing to have the truth of my statements judged squarely by the results obtained through the practice of these methods. You want proof, and I say you can have it but you must experience it. You want to know how you can experience it, and I tell you how to go about it.
    I can do no more.
    That is very well put. We can describe our experiences but I have no expectations of anyone believing me, nor does it bother me if they doubt what I have described. I say, do it yourself and you will find out from your own experiences. What happens for me may not happen the same way for everyone else and that's because the potential experiences are unlimited and we each have different challenges to go through....or not.
    Ha! "The proof in the pudding is in the eating." I love that... Yes, Carrington and Muldoon spent much time discussing this, too be sure... I have to admire them for their attempts to approach the OBE with a scientific mindset. I salute them in recognizing that scientific scrutiny should not be completely abandon, just because the research methodology cannot be directly applied... Ultimately, the experiences of the projector and the scientist will be put into a 'paper' and read over by other scientists who will NOT understand. This is a problem. But we will push through, as their are lots of fun experimentation going on!!

    The potential experiences ARE unlimited!! That is why I want to expose everything that I can about ObE research, so as to get a good overall view of it... The objective/skeptical scientist in us is about to be blown away!!!!!!
    Thx for the input.
    Jake.

    Quote Posted by Sebastion (here)
    There is one bit of important advice I would like to offer at the beginning of this thread, especially for those who might be intimidated by traveling out of body. This advice was critical for me to learn and I suspect for all as well. All souls are quite equal period. That means that anyone you encounter along the way, no matter how they powerfully present themselves, positive or negative, you at the very least are equal and in truth, greater in power then they are. This is absolutely true for any and all experiences encountered in the lower material worlds.

    Getting this fact deeply into my psyche saved my butt many times. Once you have a few experiences under your belt and have grasped this fact, your fear will disappear and so too, your intimidation factor will drop dramatically.
    Yes, Sebastion... Thank you. Good call. That is excellent advice.. We will need your experience and expertise, as this study unfolds. (We are going to need all the help we can get, especially from members who have experience with this.) The reality of the OBE is not in question here... Getting to the nuts and bolts of how to control the induction/triggering of the ObE is what we are aiming for,,, and there is much to consider... Good onya...
    Jake.


    Everyones experiences and input are welcome... There may be something in a fragmented memory that we can 'blow open' and expose... This is going to take as many of us as can lend a hand... We learn from each other,,, then we GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    The depth of “quietness” I experience during meditation (sometimes with intent to go OBE) varies a lot. When I go deep, I frequently (and unintentionally) end the meditation by vigorously shaking my head.

    Not sure why that happens, or if it is OBE related.


    Another experience I have that is not understood sometimes occurs while driving when the sun is low in the sky, and the trees between the sun and me create a flash that is similar to a very powerful strobe light. Very distracting and uncomfortable. For some unknown reason I associate that experience with having difficulty staying in my physical body.


    Anyone else have those experiences?

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    I have gotten close to spontaneous OBE twice in my sleep, but both times my cat has pounced on me. I assume it is because he is very afraid for me when he can see my energy going all nuts.

    However, he's not the only one scared. The first time it happened, I was in (what I now know to be) sleep paralysis. I opened my eyes laying on my back in bed (which I NEVER sleep in this position, so it was totally a fluke), and a man with long red dreads was staring deeply into my eyes standing beside me in bed. He had a hand on my knee. I could even feel it. Not knowing what any of this was, I thought I had a home invader. However, he stood quite still, just staring at me. I was in quite a panic, and reached for my other cat who was sleeping on me, and snapped out of it. I looked around, and noticed that i was missing a cat (and he is usually right up next to me when I sleep). I went into the living room to find him (mostly because I was scared and wanted the comfort). He was on top of a piece of furniture, back arched, hissing. (He never hisses. Ever.) I turned on a light, and he ran behind the couch with his tail fluffed out. I called his name, and he quickly came back to me.

    Another time, I was lucid dreaming and actually attempting to go OBE. The process was well on its way, and I was floating upwards, but the same cat pounced on me and woke me up.

    Since then, I have been too afraid to try anything. Plus, I never was "trying" to begin with. Both of those times I was sleeping on my back, which I find extremely uncomfortable and I normally cannot fall asleep that way. I am a stomach sleeper. I have always heard you need to be on your back for these things to work. Do you think that if I want to actually TRY to go OBE, that I will have to learn to sleep on my back? I worry that will hold me back quite a bit.

    Thanks for this awesome thread!
    "The only wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing." -Socrates

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Speaking of a different way to have something that was sort of an OBE, I once went through an encounter type group seminar called Lifespring. When I eventually went to the advanced training the staff kept talking about how some of us might "Get It". Get what?? They wouldn't tell us. Well, I finally GOT IT so I found out what they were talking about. We did a process where two people sat in a chair facing each other, staring into each others eyes (as much as possible without blinking) and would take turns asking each other a question. I can't remember exactly but it was something like "what do you really want?". We would give a one word answer then change the questioner, back and forth.

    I was doing this with another woman and as we stared into each others eyes I began to see her face change, then I began to see energy. It only took about 10 minutes maybe and we both seemed to jump forward and above our heads and merged into one being. I instantaneously knew everything about her as though I was her and it felt like I was her and me at the same time. It was so blissful that we started laughing and couldn't stop. They knew exactly what had happened because this was apparently what they meant by "getting it".

    Then they took her and me and put us with different people. It took less than a minute for me to pull the other person out of themselves, over our heads in a merged consciousness. I pulled out at least 7 or more people and I think a few of them were able to pull many of the others out to merge with. The bliss from that experience lasted for many hours. I was about 21 at that time so it was around 1968. In subsequent years I did that exercise with a few people successfully.

    It wasn't until age 33 that I began meditating and having OBE's where I totally left the earth dimension and traveled through all dimensions up to Source. There was a huge difference for me between OBE's where I stayed within a room, which I had done starting about age 4, and OBE's where I left all things human behind. But it's all a great adventure and all types of experiences, no matter how scary or negative, have always been helpful and exciting for me.

    Sebastion is totally correct that when you realize that NO one is your superior, that we are all equal, you will not be able to be controlled easily. It can take some very harrowing experiences and perhaps a lot of battles until you tap into the absolute power of love, but when you do, it all becomes a total joy. After I merged with love for the first time, all future years of travels were blissful, humorous and fantastic. No being that tried to control me could even begin to gain any power over me. I could merge with even the most demonic type being and we would become ONE. All their negative or control games would disappear and they would laugh at the cosmic joke of it all as a part of me and we knew we were Source.

    In the meantime this is all a marvelous adventure and experiment. Duality is a grand game and we are the players. I can't think of anything I would rather have done than experience all of this, human life, OBE's, merging with other beings on all dimensions (even having 4 husbands and countless lovers!). I still enjoy reading about how others begin to experiment with OBE's and make progress in finding out who they really are. There is nothing more exciting!
    Alpha Mike Foxtrot

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Only once have I experienced the vibrational state. That was during sleep. It was not scary, just the opposite. Somehow I knew what it was about and was very excited about it in a positive way. As far as I know, never did I get to an OBE.

    Once (only once) I had a lucid dream. That also was fun and during the dream I wanted to experiment with finding out what I could do. I moved into the car to see if I could drive it. Tried to release the emergency brake. My hand passed right through the release mechanism.

    If fear is what is holding me back, I sure do not recognize it in those two experiences.

    During the dream state, many times I am on the roof of a very tall building, moving around, using extreme caution not to slip and fall. That could be fear related. Maybe I just need to jump.

    In the dream state I’ve parachuted out of aircraft, with friends. That was fun. Wanted more jumps. No fear of height at all. Maybe more related to reincarnation than OBE.

    In many other dreams, I’ve reinlisted in the Marine Corps again, back in the Marine Air Wing , or boot camp, for the umpteenth time, and thinking this was a stupid idea. My uniform is usually not squared away. But I recognize some of my old friends here and begin to rethink maybe being here is not such a bad idea. I’m much older that my fellow Marines, but I enjoy showing off that I can still run as well as my younger companions. Probably related to reincarnation.

    Hope these dream experiences are not too far off topic.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 17th September 2014 at 16:35.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by NancyV (here)
    Speaking of a different way to have something that was sort of an OBE, I once went through an encounter type group seminar called Lifespring. When I eventually went to the advanced training the staff kept talking about how some of us might "Get It". Get what?? They wouldn't tell us. Well, I finally GOT IT so I found out what they were talking about. We did a process where two people sat in a chair facing each other, staring into each others eyes (as much as possible without blinking) and would take turns asking each other a question. I can't remember exactly but it was something like "what do you really want?". We would give a one word answer then change the questioner, back and forth.

    I was doing this with another woman and as we stared into each others eyes I began to see her face change, then I began to see energy. It only took about 10 minutes maybe and we both seemed to jump forward and above our heads and merged into one being. I instantaneously knew everything about her as though I was her and it felt like I was her and me at the same time. It was so blissful that we started laughing and couldn't stop. They knew exactly what had happened because this was apparently what they meant by "getting it".

    I still enjoy reading about how others begin to experiment with OBE's and make progress in finding out who they really are. There is nothing more exciting!
    Wow! That is amazing, I've only heard about such experimenting.. Robert Monroe refers to the more ASTRAL projections (past human experience) as moving beyond the 'Earth-life Belief System Territories'. I will simply refer to it as having an Astral Projection rather than an OBE. Astral being more properly out of the human paradigm. (Sometimes I will say Astral-proper... meaning 'outside human experience'.) They are all experiences beyond the body. Robert Bruce refers to the initial OBE state (where you are out of body floating around like a specter or ghost) as the Real-Time-Zone, or RTZ. The REAL being the closeness to the physical, an energetic representation of the physical,, The TIME is means that there is obvious 'passing of moments' and the ZONE meaning it is a layer, rather than a new reality... When you find yourself out of body, and struggling to perceive the passing of moments,,, then you are into the Astral Proper, and moving out of RTZ... Navigating through these layers will only be limited by how far we are willing to stretch our minds and comprehend what we are experiencing. Many, many OBEs in RTZ (Energetic layer closest to the physical) seemed to abruptly end. What was really happening was that the experienced phased into a more Astral Proper experience,, and I lost my physical mindset (my co-pilot, if you will) therefore, I lost any chance of remembering it in any discernible way, other than the memory of the direct experience of it, (which are profound 'knowings' and emotions, even waking up sobbing with joy, and no physical memory of why..)

    This study is exciting for me partly because, I have not yet mastered this craft. I can 'set the stage and wait'. (which brings a couple of OBEs a week.) or I can go the distance and figure out what my 'missing basic' is, that is keeping me from being able to induce/trigger the OBE from scratch...



    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    The depth of “quietness” I experience during meditation (sometimes with intent to go OBE) varies a lot. When I go deep, I frequently (and unintentionally) end the meditation by vigorously shaking my head.

    Not sure why that happens, or if it is OBE related.


    Another experience I have that is not understood sometimes occurs while driving when the sun is low in the sky, and the trees between the sun and me create a flash that is similar to a very powerful strobe light. Very distracting and uncomfortable. For some unknown reason I associate that experience with having difficulty staying in my physical body.


    Anyone else have those experiences?
    Hey Ron, I have found that Quietness is one thing, 'depth' is another... Quietness+Depth+proper breathing=trance. Natural meditation does not require 'depth' or dropping into trance. Meditation being a broad platform for many things. I have to tell a quick story,,, when I was much younger and learning about meditation, I came across a teacher who claimed to get a list of procedures for proper meditation. He stated that the rules were these: Quieting your mind, Breathing Properly, and Movement... He explained the first two in detail, but when it came to the 'movement' part,,, he literally said "I don't know what movement means because we are supposed to be sitting here very still, so we're gong to skip over that part." Ron, there is a very potent ingredient that you can add to your meditations that may be what you are looking for with regards the 'strobing' and the instinctive 'vigorous shaking of the head, that ruins the fun'... The vigorous shaking of the head is your bodies natural defiance of energy-body sensations,,, like a reflex... The association of the light flashes are memory fragments of being conscious whilst experiencing energy-body sensations, especially Brow-Center or Crown-Center Strobing. (IMHE) My advice would be to study up a bit on the energy body and how to create and move energy throughout your body... Try and do it separately from your regular meditations and try not to project while doing it... Save your 'projection practice' for when you can put all of the elements together... That is what I do,, and I am consistently waking up into amazing energetic states, that are easy to 'exit' from... Energy work is going to be central to this study. (and central to the methodology of most every other projector that I highlight too...) I haven't gone over it yet, but if I were you, I'd jump ahead and give it a go...


    Quote Posted by Zaya (here)
    I have gotten close to spontaneous OBE twice in my sleep, but both times my cat has pounced on me. I assume it is because he is very afraid for me when he can see my energy going all nuts.

    However, he's not the only one scared. The first time it happened, I was in (what I now know to be) sleep paralysis. I opened my eyes laying on my back in bed (which I NEVER sleep in this position, so it was totally a fluke), and a man with long red dreads was staring deeply into my eyes standing beside me in bed. He had a hand on my knee. I could even feel it. Not knowing what any of this was, I thought I had a home invader. However, he stood quite still, just staring at me. I was in quite a panic, and reached for my other cat who was sleeping on me, and snapped out of it. I looked around, and noticed that i was missing a cat (and he is usually right up next to me when I sleep). I went into the living room to find him (mostly because I was scared and wanted the comfort). He was on top of a piece of furniture, back arched, hissing. (He never hisses. Ever.) I turned on a light, and he ran behind the couch with his tail fluffed out. I called his name, and he quickly came back to me.

    Another time, I was lucid dreaming and actually attempting to go OBE. The process was well on its way, and I was floating upwards, but the same cat pounced on me and woke me up.

    Since then, I have been too afraid to try anything. Plus, I never was "trying" to begin with. Both of those times I was sleeping on my back, which I find extremely uncomfortable and I normally cannot fall asleep that way. I am a stomach sleeper. I have always heard you need to be on your back for these things to work. Do you think that if I want to actually TRY to go OBE, that I will have to learn to sleep on my back? I worry that will hold me back quite a bit.

    Thanks for this awesome thread!
    Man-o man!! That fellow in the dreads can be creepy! Especially if you are not trying to project in the first place. The fellow in the dreads (fellow in the hat, for me) has been traditionally referred to as 'The Dweller on the Threshold', and can be quite terrifying, or not,, depending on your disposition.. An age old tale, often associated with sleep paralysis. Many will never deal with the 'dweller', but many will. For me, it was terrifying, and he represented one of the first 'fear barriers' that I had to face. To others,, he is just a curious fellow, no harm, no fear... Yes, the most natural position to project from (in my experience) is laying on your back,, maybe propped up a bit like in a recliner or something. From what you are reporting,,,,, I'm getting me some cats!!! I've heard that cats can see subtle energies, especially ones that aren't supposed to be there... What an incredible experience.. !!! (I have been out of body with my little dog!!! ) Thanks for the input...

    And thank you ALL for the input. I'm drafting my next post like a madman... I want to get through,, Muldoon/Monroe/Bruce/Buhlman,,, as quick as I can so we can get to it!!! Bear with me, as I want to lay it all out, peace by peace... lol...


    Love to all,
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Stan, I spent a loooooooong time in fear
    Jake you have hit upon something that is important to all of us and that is fear. Understanding and getting control of your fear is probably the fastest and easiest way to get control of a Out of Body Experience. Fear provides an unnecessary level of complication that prevents people from relaxing their mind enough to accomplish most tasks, especially OBE's. It is not a complicated endeavor but you must be in the proper state of mind.

    Fear almost always correlates to a fear of death. Fear of death is the primordial, instinctual fear that promotes the human-race to strive for longevity and safety. It is responsible for the precautions we take in every day life, eating organic foods, buying a home security system, getting fluoride out of our water and even looking both ways before we cross the street. Of course there are always those everyday mundane fears (lol) that so many people have that also correlate to death, heights, spiders, snakes, flying, lightning germs etc. The point is that there are literally hundreds of subsets of one major fear and that is the fear of death. So we must change our thinking about death.

    Embracing the fear of death produces proprietary feelings of owning your emotions. There is no better feeling than being able to know who you are and recognize what makes you tick, jump, swear, smile, laugh and cry. Owning and understanding your body and mind are pivotal to success. Learning from fear is a method toward understanding. Knowing yourself can provide insights of your own psyche as we all as preparing for the dangers and joys of the world.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Methedology and Research Cont... Sylvan Muldoon..

    Sylvan Joseph Muldoon was born in 1903 and died in 1971, two years before I was born.. It is said that he visited a spiritualist camp in Clinton Idaho with his mother when he was very young, which later sparked a series of spontaneous projections when he was 12. Years of spontaneous OBEs and other disassociate events and lots of research led him to write a letter to Herewood Carrington. The letter was regarding a book, Le Fantâme des Vivants by Charles Lancelin, which claimed to know everything there is to know about the out of body experience. In his letter to Carrington, Muldoon made it perfectly clear that he could write a book on what Lancelin did NOT know, regarding the OBE…

    Muldoon was in his mid-20’s when he collaborated with Carrington and went to work on the book, The Projection of the Astral Body (1929). Muldoon went on to write a second book, The Case for Astral Projection (1936), and then The Phenomena of Astral Projection (1951). His work can only be considered an inspiration to any of us who have done serious research into the OBE.

    Carrington and Muldoon give us our first pragmatic set of definitions, conditions and tools that we can use to forge our way forward in our exploration of the OBE. They advance specific methodologies and I will try and list, and explain them.

    Muldoons first projections began at age 12. He began to find himself suddenly conscious, not knowing where he was, and not able to move. (A condition that he refers to as ‘Astral Catalepsy’) Astral Catalepsy is what we commonly call ‘sleep paralysis’. From there he would experience up and down vibrations with varying intensities. Just a note here, Muldoon would often lump the paralysis with the vibrations when he used the term Astral Catalepsy,, They are actually two different things… When he would fight through the sensations and force himself to ‘see’, he found himself floating above his body, attached by a single silver cord. He coined the phrase ‘cord activity range’, which denotes the severity of the ‘magnetic pull’ back to the body, based on how close the ‘phantom’ was to the physical body. Muldoon also talks about energetic weakness , and how it relates to the ‘pull’ back to your body. For Muldoon, a typical projection would be to ‘wake into catalepsy, move the phantom into an upright position, and move away from the physical body’. Muldoon also coined the phrase ‘crypto-conscious mind’, which is liken unto the sub-conscious mind. He goes into detail about the mechanics of vibration, and why our projected phantom can’t affect physical matter. Well, it CAN, actually, but he considers it an act of the crypto-conscious mind. And it takes great self-awareness to commune ‘waking mind’ to the ‘crypto’ mind…
    Sylvan Muldoons method to trigger Astral Projection is as follows:

    (a) Develop yourself so that you are enabled to hold consciousness up to the very moment of "rising to sleep." The best way to do this is to hold some member of the physical body in such a position that it will not be at rest, but will be inclined to fall as you enter sleep.

    (b) Construct a dream which will have the action of self predominant. The dream must be of the aviation type, in which you move upward and outward, corresponding to the action of the astral body while projecting. It must be a dream of something which you enjoy doing.

    (c) Hold the dream clearly in mind; visualize it as you are rising to sleep; project yourself right into it and go on dreaming.

    (d) Through the use of properly applied suggestion, prior to the dream, you will be able to remember yourself in your dream and bring your dream body (i.e., your astral body) to full waking consciousness. This technique may require months of gentle persistence.



    This simplified methedology should be read over carefully, and some specific elements be noted.

    1. Waking consciousness to be held, even unto varying levels of sleep.
    2. Powerful visualizations regarding being separate from your body.
    3. (he skipped a step,, lol)
    4. Become lucid in a dream, and project from there.
    (As we go along, we will refine this list!! )


    Not a complete list, but it’s a good start. To become lucid in a dream, there are some tricks. The best one is this: You have to do this 5 or 6 times throughout the day,,, Stop everything that you are doing and look around you, and ask yourself if you are dreaming… You have to REALLY ask yourself if you are dreaming, and mean it! Look around,, feel the wall or desk,,, really and truly look for different clues to see if you are dreaming or not. Then go back to your normal business. Do this every couple of hours. What you are doing is creating a thought pattern that will carry into sleep. If you do it right, a couple of hours into a dreamy sleep and you will find yourself in a dream,, asking yourself if you are dreaming,,,, and in an actual dream, it has a very profound effect. Once you are lucid dreaming,,, you can project from there with just a thought. (this trick is step 3)

    A good read into triggering the ObE in relation to Muldoons work can be found here.. http://www.near-death.com/experience...ers16.html#a04

    In summary of Carrington an Muldoons work, I want to make the following observations.

    Carrington laid out the logic and need for a serious look at Scientific methedology with regards the Observer, and with regards the projector. Personal experience is the only way forward, and scientific methedology and logical reporting should be adopted by the projector. (A merging of science and spirituality, no? )

    Muldoon laid out some basic methods and observation. (Basic buy quite detailed, if you read the book.) One being what he called ‘astral catalepsy’, another would be what he called ‘cord activity range’, another would be ‘energetic weakness’, and finally ‘crypto-conscious-mind’. All of these things will become relevant as we move along. Especially regarding the observations and Methods of other Advanced projectors. A pattern will emerge… 

    In the next section, I’m going to skip forward to the work of Robert Monroe.
    More to follow
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    <snip>
    Hey Ron, I have found that Quietness is one thing, 'depth' is another... Quietness+Depth+proper breathing=trance. Natural meditation does not require 'depth' or dropping into trance. Jake. <snip>
    Hi Jake,

    When I use the term "deep", it means that, for a moment, I don't know where I am on the way back to this reality. Without remembering all the details, I know that I've been somewhere else. I like it when that happens, I get the feeling that I've done something right.

    Ron
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 17th September 2014 at 23:52.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    <snip>
    Hey Ron, I have found that Quietness is one thing, 'depth' is another... Quietness+Depth+proper breathing=trance. Natural meditation does not require 'depth' or dropping into trance. Jake. <snip>
    Hi Jake,

    When I use the term "deep", it means that, for a moment, I don't know where I am on the way back to this reality. Without remembering all the details, I know that I've been somewhere else. I like it when that happens.

    Ron
    That makes sense. So you get a good sense that you are 'on your way back' rather than 'stopping' yourself before you went 'down'? It matters in the sense that you can't remember it. Memory recall is a very slipper slope when it comes to the OBE. Have you ever woke from a dream, been laying there remembering the dream, and had it slip from your mind in an instant?? Of course you have... OBE recall is quite a bit more fickle... The very slipper 'slope' here is the slope of trance, (not the depth) but the 'coming out' of trance, or the 'going into' trance. I don't think that 'depth' is the problem.. I think it is a memory thing. Memory fields are not physical, and memory recall will vary, based on the 'abundance' of vital/subtle energies. Again with the energy work,,, Simple energy work is like basic exercise for the physical body,, nothing too extreme, just stimulation of a healthy energy body... It will (among other things) increase memory recall.

    Just food for thought
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Quote Stan, I spent a loooooooong time in fear
    Jake you have hit upon something that is important to all of us and that is fear. Understanding and getting control of your fear is probably the fastest and easiest way to get control of a Out of Body Experience. Fear provides an unnecessary level of complication that prevents people from relaxing their mind enough to accomplish most tasks, especially OBE's. It is not a complicated endeavor but you must be in the proper state of mind.

    Fear almost always correlates to a fear of death. Fear of death is the primordial, instinctual fear that promotes the human-race to strive for longevity and safety. It is responsible for the precautions we take in every day life, eating organic foods, buying a home security system, getting fluoride out of our water and even looking both ways before we cross the street. Of course there are always those everyday mundane fears (lol) that so many people have that also correlate to death, heights, spiders, snakes, flying, lightning germs etc. The point is that there are literally hundreds of subsets of one major fear and that is the fear of death. So we must change our thinking about death.

    Embracing the fear of death produces proprietary feelings of owning your emotions. There is no better feeling than being able to know who you are and recognize what makes you tick, jump, swear, smile, laugh and cry. Owning and understanding your body and mind are pivotal to success. Learning from fear is a method toward understanding. Knowing yourself can provide insights of your own psyche as we all as preparing for the dangers and joys of the world.
    My friend, I wont' try and say it better!! Bravo!! You have a gift, with your insight. Fear is THE barrier in, or out of body. To walk to the edge of fear, is to feel the primal/raw fear that the very edge of life/death itself,,, it is raw and burning and purging...

    You are a brilliant mind, thank you for being with us..
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    United States Avalon Member Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    Simple energy work is like basic exercise for the physical body,, nothing too extreme, just stimulation of a healthy energy body... It will (among other things) increase memory recall.
    Hi Jake!

    I look forward to you speaking more directly upon this aspect, as with all else. I've been nudged toward taking a more active participatory stance in my own conscious development recently by sources within and the above quote spoke to me, as did many others in this thread. Thank you for bringing this topic to the table and thank you also to all of the beautiful souls that are participating for sharing your experiences.

    So much in this thread already, but I am gratified to bear witness to these testimonies folks are sharing.

    We all come to it individually through the course of a lifetime, it seems. I guess I also am a "natural projector" as you call it, as it has been a large part of my life since my youngest years. My first memories of sleep paralysis are around from the ages of 8 or 9. I experienced constant projections, it was terrifying. I learned to fight it early and fight it I did, tenaciously. It did not fit into the Christian worldview I'd been raised in. At 12, knowing that I was about to raise a topic that had to be worded just right, I asked my mother a very general question about if it were possible for a soul to leave the body and she told me that demons would enter if your soul left.

    My sleeping life all during my teens and early 20s was a battleground, insomnia was my weapon. In fact, my sleeping positions up until about 2 years ago now, were patterned specifically to be in the best physical position to fight the vibrations; on my side, an arm placed just so, so that it could be moved, head tilted just so the pillow couldn't cover the face, nose, making certain to NEVER sleep on my stomach or at any angle that could lead to me slumping over and being caught by the vibrations.

    Wasn't until my early 20s that I found Robert Monroe's book, "Journeys Out of the Body", back in the late 80s. Contrary to all of the Experiencers I read here it seems, after undergoing a quick succession of terrifying projections, I stopped experimenting consciously and as I've aged, the frequency with which I enter the state has diminished. But, also like others, having these experiences that no one else seemed to have - intersected by more, deeper and intense experience of Source in my early teens, my early 20s and two years ago, early-mid 40s - I kept quiet about them for the most part, only sharing with the closest of friends or lovers. Back in those days, all of this was beyond fringe, although steadily approaching the mainstream.

    As I've not really gone too far into the study of the phenomenon beyond Monroe's classic, I appreciate the resources that you are sharing with us! I am sure we will all become experts as the thread rolls along.

    In that vein, I would like to ask a question to all, about one of my experiences, and anybody's input is welcomed: EXPERIENCE: Using Monroes technique of instigating and controlling the vibratory stage upon achieving the earthquake vibe state lol there was separation, but in so separating, I was suddenly upon a coral reef. A beautiful, sunny day, approximately 15 feet under water. I had 360 degree perception. A school of orange and blue fish nearby swerved to go around me rather than through, their movement unhurried and serene. I was there for perhaps a few seconds because the utter vividity of the experience was waking-life clear. I was not elsewhere, I was there. An actual, physical place. And then I was back in bed, shooting up to a sitting position, gasping for breath and sweating as if my body had accompanied me through wherever I traveled thru to wherever I went. Since then, other experiences have occurred upon obviously other planes of existence, but the intensity of this particular experience was mind-boggling. QUESTION: Have others experienced this type of specificity of geographic pinpointing?

    I have no idea why in the world I would have been drawn to a specific place near a coral reef that way, I was living in Germany at the time and have never been to the type of tropical environment I went to that night.

    So much to talk about and with such knowledgeable souls. The journey begins. It is good to be in y'alls company and I look forward to the progression of the thread.
    Last edited by Rahkyt; 17th September 2014 at 22:10.

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