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Thread: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by NancyV (here)
    <snip>
    I don't separate my "higher self" from mySELF as some like to do, for instance I don't name my higher self with a separate name because I am not separate from my higher self. As far as Source being an aspect of my higher self.... that actually doesn't make much sense to me. If I had to say it in words I would say that I (and my higher self) are an aspect of Source. But that is also confusing because we ARE Source at all times. We are simply not aware consciously that we are Source. We like to say we are a part or aspect of Source/God/the One, but in actuality there is no division because there is nothing else BUT the Source playing different games. <snip>
    Yes, we are all Source, everything is consciousness, including the plastic on the kitchen counter and the people we don't like. I cannot verify that through direct experience, just some very strong suspicions.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 5th October 2014 at 12:04.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by mahalall (here)
    In post 74,
    Jake draws to our attention phowa,

    thankyou,

    "The word phowa means the transference or ejection of consciousness into the state of truth. Its success relies on invoking the presence of a buddha (a fully enlightened being), combined with our receptivity and devotion, and the familiarity which comes from having done the practice repeatedly throughout our life" (1)

    In post 74, (Jake)
    An extract used is from the Dalai Lama, quoted, "there are many paths to light"

    Within the ring and with the keys of bhanda ones sound visual contributes to the communion into the expansive, elevated plains of Phowa. Paying respect to guardians of these realms. One walks into the vibrational bliss of a clean environmental plateau were all beings are radiant.

    Old school masters of the, The Inn-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet (parden the play on words), might argue that the Phowa plains are just by products and to be careful of illusionary attachment and entrapment

    and certainly

    "The induction into sleep and the study of trance and subtle bodies are things that other sentient beings have mastered. We are on the precipice of breaking down walls that were never intended to be broke down.. (if you get my drift)... Thousands and thousands of astral projectors are being held captive and are being controlled and there is no contingency plan" jake post 149

    But one of the intriguing aspects of phowa assimulation is the effects in the present,

    The physical realm of sensory stimulation contributes to physiological reactions through which consciousness negates for good or bad (black or white). For those who draw upon the realm of the phowa the present the mind becomes dissassociated with ones bodies reaction, and as the realm is associated with bliss one smiles in the face of pain.

    The advantages of this is that one can address the illness within your abuser without reacting to the pain.
    But a serious concern arises that if an out of body realm is being used regularly to work within the present physical does one run the risk of developing insensitivities through dissociation disorders? (ii)



    i)http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Budd...%20version.htm

    ii)http://www.mind.org.uk/media/439466/...rders-2013.pdf

    I hesitate to bring too much material into the fray that I don't have too much knowledge about. I have always had a deep respect for those who have a deep respect.... lol... Also, it is not my goal to step on toes.. My limited understanding of Buddhism will surely bleed through, if I attempt to pretend that I know too much.. The Dali Lama has my utmost respect as a human.. I will watch vids from time to time, and I never get bored of beholding this mans spirit!! I can see the joy and kindness and reverence in him that is missing in the entire world...

    The Dali Lama walks into a pizza shop and asks they guy behind the counter,, "Can you make me ONE with everything?" lol... (I saw a vid where a reporter told this joke to him, and it backfired!! it was funny though)

    Thank you for the link regarding dissociate disorders. I wish I had seen it yesterday,,, I'd have passed it on to a friend.. Mental health issues, coupled with natural tendencies to project can lead to great deception,, and a great willingness to embrace deception.. A good long look inward will become paramount... Sometimes we have to put our trust into other people, and that is a hard road with ObE... It is hard to look inward and flush out what it is we need to flush so that we can proceed without bias, and with humility..

    The Obe can be a dissociate disorder brought on my mental illness. If unchecked and ignored it will become a problem for individuals and the people around them. I am still having arguments with a friend of mine from high school who insists that he is god, and that he created everything, and that when he is not there, everything ceases to exist... It is baffling to me how a single person can assume that the entire world needs their approval to exist... The OBE is a very powerful transformative tool, and a very empowering experience. I never let the 'god complex' get the best of me.. I never wanted any of this.. I was dragged into it kicking and screaming... The only way forward for me, was to shed layers and become LESS of what I was... I am constantly aware of folks who insist that THIER experiences are the only ones that are real, and that everyone fits into their flawed and limited view of things...

    We have a problem with mental health issues in America. Most go undiagnosed and even many of the folks who ARE diagnosed slip through the cracks, or are drugged to the T-.. Lots of folks who study the ObE and related events, cringe at the fact that Westerners are 'teaching' Astral Projection.. I get it! There are too many pitfalls, especially for folks who have embraced their mental illness... Not a good combination, and many times, that is why a western approach is not preferred...

    Also, thank you for the article regarding Phowa meditation and practice... I've read it a couple of times... I think it is fascinating that studying ObE is not something that is new!!!! Ha, not by a long shot!! It is not my field of expertise, but I have noticed that the concept of transcending the physical body, and those who do,,, have been a profound attribute of ALL religions.. I don't have all of the facts together, but my suspicion is that this experience is at the heart of ALL religions, and this experience has been put up on a divine platform so as to hide the knowledge from the masses,,, or the irresponsible.....

    I even have a suspicion that if we were all to learn to Astral Project,, the layers of myth/lies/deception/fears that keep us in the 'dark' will all fade away, and we have a revolution in consciousness in A SINGLE DAY... There are too many experiences beyond the body to put them all into a single basket and begin to 'preach' ones word over another... That is why, imho, humility and absence of EGO are the ONLY way forward...

    I've experienced too much to do anything but revere the Universe... I humble myself to the Universe, and to the people around me...

    Never take my word for it... NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!! It is important to me that YOU do your own exploring, and find out answers for yourself... Do NOT take me for an enlightened Guru,, I'd rather be a damn fool!!!!


    Ha,, I've had a friendly fantasy of me being a monk on a mountain in Tibet or something,,, and my life as Jake is just one big Astral Projection....

    Lord, please don't give me all the answers ,,, I am loving the journey!!!!!


    Mahalall,,, please help us to draw parallels to the wisdom of the Buddha. If you can stomach my ignorance... I only know what I have experienced,, even then,,,,, I am skeptical. lol.

    Thank you for joining us,,
    Jake.

    (I don't even WANT enlightenment... I just want to experience the joy of life, at the core of my being.)
    Last edited by Jake; 5th October 2014 at 14:51.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Methodology and Research Cont...


    William Buhlman.





    One of the most prominent and outspoken Western researcher of consciousness with specific regards the OBE is William Buhlman. Buhlman was a skeptic before he tried ObE for himself. To date, William has had over 40 years of experience with ObE and has written Various books, articles, he has given lectures, workshops, seminars,, he has one of the most widely participated in, ongoing surveys regarding the OBE and Astral Projection,, and related phenomenon. Buhlman is currently working in collaboration with The Monroe Institute in Virginia to further advance the studies into consciousness and specifically the ObE and Astral Projection. The transformative nature and potential of the OBE speaks for itself.

    Buhlmans first major work was a book entitled Adventures Beyond the Body (<=== Click to view online.) This book takes us through many aspects of ObE that we have already discussed, but also gives us more to sink our teeth into... It includes lots of journal entries and details of his observations while out of body. Buhlman is an excellent reporter, and careful not to assume too much.

    It did not start out that way, though. Consider if from his own words,, on Page one of Adventures Beyond the body....

    June of 1972. During a conversation with a neighbor, our discussion turned to the possibilities of life after death and the existence of heaven. I proceeded to present my agnostic viewpoints with vigor. To my surprise my neighbor didn’t contest my conclusions; instead, he related an experience that he had had several weeks before. One evening just after drifting to sleep, he was shocked to discover himself floating above his body. Completely awake and aware, he became frightened and instantly fell back into his physical body. Excited, he told me it wasn’t a dream or his imagination, but a fully conscious experience. Intrigued by his experience, I decided to investigate this strange phenomenon for myself. After several days of research I discovered numerous references to out-of-body experiences throughout history. With some searching I found a book on the topic that actually described how out-of-body experiences are induced. The entire subject seemed extremely weird, and I considered the book the result of an overly active imagination. Out of curiosity, I decided to try one of the out-of-body techniques before sleep. After repeated daily attempts, I began to feel a little ridiculous. In three weeks the only thing I experienced out of the norm was an increase in my dream recall. I became more and more convinced that this entire subject was nothing more than an intense or vivid dream stimulated by the so-called out-of-body techniques. Then, one night about eleven o’clock I drifted to sleep during my out-of-body technique and began dreaming that I was sitting at a round table with several people. They all seemed to be asking me questions related to my self-development and state of consciousness. At that moment in the dream I began to feel extremely dizzy, and a strange numbness, like from Novocain, began to spread throughout my body. Unable to keep my head up, I passed out, hitting my head on the table. Instantly I was awake, fully conscious, lying in bed facing the wall. I could hear an unusual buzzing sound and felt somehow different. Extending my arm, I reached for the wall in front of me. I stared in amazement as my hand actually entered the wall; I could feel the vibrational energy of it as if I was touching its very molecular structure. Only then did the overwhelming reality hit me, “My God, I’m not in my body”. Excited, my only thought was, “It’s real. My God, it’s real!”


    With that, his life takes a different direction. Not because he became fully enlightened. NO! But because he was able to verify the experience for himself, and in and instant,, many of his 'belief' systems broke down. He verified it for himself, and now he is determined to bring what he has learned through exploration and personal experience to the forefront of Western thinking.

    Buhlman began using visualization techniques in his early attempts to induce the ObE from scratch. He would visualize and 'feel' a remote environment.. Once he got really good at it he was hit with his first real roadblock.... The Vibrations!!!

    In seconds I’m shaken awake by intense vibrations and a roaring sound throughout my body. It feels like I’m in the middle of a jet engine and my body and mind are about to vibrate apart. I’m shocked and scared by the intensity of the vibrations and sounds and snap back to my body. As I open my eyes, I realize that I’m completely numb and that a strange tingling sensation is spreading throughout my body.


    Ha! The story of my life... lol...

    Another study into the induction of ObE via the vibrational state was underway... He began having fully conscious spontaneous awakenings into this vibrational state. The vibrations would accompany paralysis and a great rush of raw, primal Fear.. I can't help but draw parallels to my own experience. It is difficult, even impossible sometimes to push forward in the face of great fear... We have discussed it a bit already.. Fear is the mind-killer. (Dune reference.)

    Vibrations/Paralysis/Fear... A very potent recipe...

    All of these things had to be overcome in Buhlmans case, because his method of projection, just like Monroe, is to induce the Vibrational State, and project from there...

    Buhlman lists the Anatomy of an ObE as follows:

    1) The Vibrational Stage,, Astral Catalepsy and Paralysis.
    2) The Separation Stage,,
    3) The Exploration Stage,, Oot-n-aboot...
    4) The Re-Entry Stage,, Re-integration of the different body/mind aspects.

    He lists 'Steps to Success' in the same manner that we have listed Core Aspects/Skills:

    1) The ability to remain physically and mentally relaxed and calm.. To become relaxed and calm is one thing,, the ability to REMAIN calm is yet another thing, and may have to be developed.
    2) The coaxing of the Vibrational State to spread throughout your body, and intensify, and the mental ability to control the vibrations. (One of Monroes key aspects too..)
    3) Direct yourself away from your physical body. He suggests Inward verbal, or mental commands such as "I'm floating up!" or "I am becoming lighter"
    4) Maintaining your awareness (visually and kinesthetically) away from your body.



    A detailed exploration of the Vibrational State has been a shared goal of many astral projectors, including myself.. I have always likened it unto two different frequencies that are not in tune,,, as to relate to the vibrational differences between subtle bodies... I have experienced them mostly as visceral 'physical like' vibrations that I feel with my body. Many folks will hear very loud sounds, like JET ENGINES or lawnmowers that start up next to their beds... That can be alarming too.. All of the physical senses have been bypassed and the non-physical 'senses' are on full tilt.. It takes some getting used to for some,, I know that it did for me!

    According to an extensive national out-of-body study conducted by Dr. Stuart Twemlow in 1979, 55 percent of the 339 participants reported “a sense of energy” during their out-of-body experiences. In addition, 50 percent stated that they felt vibrations in their bodies and 38 percent that they heard noises in the early stages of their experience. The most commonly reported noises were buzzing (29 percent), roaring (19 percent), and music or singing (16 percent).


    Buhlman describes some of the energetic sensation as follows:

    • Buzzing, humming, or roaring sounds.
    • Unusual tingling or energy sensations.
    • Voices, laughter, or your name being called out.
    • Heaviness or sinking.
    • Numbness or paralysis in any part of your body.
    • Weightlessness or spreading lightness.
    • Any internal vibrations out of the norm.
    • Electrical-like sense of energy.
    • Footsteps or other sounds of a person’s presence.
    • Internal rocking, spinning, or movement of any kind.
    • Arms or legs lifting while you are asleep.
    • Surge of energy flowing through your body.
    • Any noise out of the norm: wind, engine, music, bells, and so on.


    (Many of these sensations are of they type that we are working with when we do energy work and targeted body awareness..)


    William has also concluded that the vibrations are created when one subtle body is out of phase with another. When you move away from your physical body, the less the vibrations. (An observation that Muldoon made regarding the Astral Cord.) The less we think about our physical body, the better.. What I mean is (and most every projector highlighted in this study has confirmed for me) when we are 'oot-n-aboot',, all it takes is a single thought about the physical body and 'snap' you are back... Many folks do not realize that at first, and concentrate solely on the physical body, preventing an exit...

    I used to have what I would call 'cluster ObEs'.. Those were multiple exits and re-entries that would occur back to back within the course of just a couple of minutes. Each return would be into a full cataleptic state and I would be 'ejected' right back out again!! After having realized that my focus on the physical body may be the reason for them,,, they stopped occurring like that.. No more 'cluster ObEs'...

    We have discussed different methods of inducing the vibrational state. Energy work techniques are going to come in handy. Buhlmans description of how to properly prepare, and induce the vibrational state a mix of visualization and body tactile imaging... Consider the following:

    Take several deep breaths and completely relax. Close your eyes and begin to visualize the top of your head opening and a stream of shimmering white, liquid energy flowing into the top of your head. The liquid feels warm and soothing as it slowly flows through the top of your head and past your forehead, eyes, and mouth. Completely relax and feel all your tensions release into the warm shimmering liquid. Feel the liquid absorb your tensions and your fears. Feel the warm liquid slowly flow through your head and down your throat. Feel this warm energy flow through your heart and spread throughout your body. Feel its warmth and energy as it flows down your back. Feel it absorbing your tension, your pain, your fears, and your limits as it fills every part of your arms and legs. Feel your entire body filled with this wonderful, white liquid energy. Feel every cell, every tissue, organ, and muscle bathe in this warm white liquid. Now feel the liquid energy become even warmer. Feel it vibrate and become a liquid sponge, a liquid magnet. Feel it begin to attract and absorb your negative vibrations. Feel it absorb your feelings of fear and anger; feel it absorb all the attachments to your body. Vividly feel all your fears, anxieties, limits, and anger being absorbed into this warm, vibrating liquid energy. Feel the flow; feel it draw your negative vibrations from your body, your emotions, your mind. Feel it at every level of your being. See and feel the glowing, warm liquid begin to darken as it absorbs all your negative vibrations. Feel every cell, every tissue and organ, every energy system in your body releasing its impurities, releasing its negative programming, releasing its limits and fear. Vividly feel all your negative vibrations let go and release their energy into the warm white liquid flowing through you. Feel this at every level of your being. Feel your emotional walls dissolve. Feel your attachments to your ego and your body begin to release to the warm liquid energy.

    Wow, what a potent cocktail of visualization with tactile imaging and moving energy... Pay particular attention to how he integrates the dissolving of fears and emotions and tension as part of this routine.. This is very powerful stuff. I would advise that everyone take this into consideration, at least long enough for you to find your own recipe/routine that works out for you. This is not a one-size-fits-all undertaking, and everyones methods should be considered, yet you should make it your own!!!

    Adventures Beyond the Body is a complete study.. I have read this book at least half a dozen times and have been successful at converting his methodology into my own practices. We are pushing through and are discovering more and more,,, day by day.. Buhlman is a testament to that!!


    Here is a must-see presentation by William Buhlman for the 25th Professional Seminar at TMI. It is the key note address,, and it is mind blowing...




    The following is the first vid of a series of vids that are a recording of a radio interview with William.. It is following his second book, The Secret Of The Soul. I'm only going to post the first of the eight,,, and you can take it from there. Williams description of the Astral, and how our minds integrate is priceless and profound. He introduces the term 'thought responsive environment',, and explains a lot about the nature of the astral realms... Please give them a listen.. I have projected by just falling asleep listening to them... lol.....






    Much more to come, regarding William Buhlman....

    Cheers,
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Jake (in post 149): "The induction into sleep and the study of trance and subtle bodies are things that other sentient beings have mastered. We are on the precipice of breaking down walls that were never intended to be broke down.. Thousands and thousands of astral projectors are being held captive and are being controlled..."

    I posit that the human being will acquire naturally through spiritual evolution the ability to consciously travel in higher dimensions.
    I posit that as the deliberate degradation of purity fostered by "controllers" is seen by individuals - perversions in the form of music, entertainment, drugs, 'news' reports, fluoride, food additives, education, et cetera - that each individual will act as they are able to bring a higher level of purity into their lower bodies.
    I posit that turning from lower frequency things to those that are higher will uncover our latent abilities in these times of increased energies.
    I posit that forcing astral projection has attending danger of being caught in 4D.

    I question the wisdom of seeking "the vibrations", of forcing separation from the body, rather than letting the natural progression of spiritual unfolding take place.
    Seeing the above quoted words from Jake enboldened me to speak here. I have seen soul fragments caught in lower 4D. I have seen a shape-shifting reptilian in 4D controlling many people.

    From my experience, I would caution against forcing this natural process, and instead turning to bringing increased purity and light into your lives. I have not spoken to upset, but to express caution.

  8. Link to Post #165
    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Meggings (here)
    Jake (in post 149): "The induction into sleep and the study of trance and subtle bodies are things that other sentient beings have mastered. We are on the precipice of breaking down walls that were never intended to be broke down.. Thousands and thousands of astral projectors are being held captive and are being controlled..."

    I posit that the human being will acquire naturally through spiritual evolution the ability to consciously travel in higher dimensions.
    I posit that as the deliberate degradation of purity fostered by "controllers" is seen by individuals - perversions in the form of music, entertainment, drugs, 'news' reports, fluoride, food additives, education, et cetera - that each individual will act as they are able to bring a higher level of purity into their lower bodies.
    I posit that turning from lower frequency things to those that are higher will uncover our latent abilities in these times of increased energies.
    I posit that forcing astral projection has attending danger of being caught in 4D.

    I question the wisdom of seeking "the vibrations", of forcing separation from the body, rather than letting the natural progression of spiritual unfolding take place.
    Seeing the above quoted words from Jake enboldened me to speak here. I have seen soul fragments caught in lower 4D. I have seen a shape-shifting reptilian in 4D controlling many people.

    From my experience, I would caution against forcing this natural process, and instead turning to bringing increased purity and light into your lives. I have not spoken to upset, but to express caution.
    Allowing for the natural progression of the proper conditions to occur is exactly what we are doing, methinks. Exploring the mechanisms of how nature takes its course has been a valid avenue for discovery since the dawn of man. I definitely attempt to respect the natural boundaries, but I cannot help my tendency to explore... LITERALLY,,, I CANNOT HELP MY TENDENCY TO PROJECT... It DOES come to me naturally and without regards my coaxing of it... The vibrational state IS a natural state, and the projection of consciousness beyond the body IS a natural event.

    For example,,, if you take the butterfly out of the cocoon before it is ready, it may never learn to fly.. If it struggles to do it on its own,,, it will unlock natural potentials that the caterpillar could only imagine!!

    I had to get the situation in my life under control... I didn't have a choice, when it came to a detailed exploration of the vibrations and their implication to OBE.. I've literally dealt with them my entire life.. And so have others, some who have shared in this discussion..

    At some point, when we were infants,,, we forced our eyes open.. It was not comfortable,, it was counterintuitive and painful,,,, but what a world it opened up (though opening your eyes was inevitable)...

    I also want to say that if at any point someone feels that energetic sensations or vibrations are un-natural or painful,, then stop immediately... Maybe try again later... Inducing the energetic components that bring about the proper conditions for projection is a latent ability in all of us that can be conditioned and strengthened over time. Like working out a muscle, it may be painful at first,, but eventually,,, you'll never even recognize it... Also, visceral vibrations are not reported by ALL projectors...

    I think that it is perfectly fine for you to advise caution.. Indeed! Point well taken.. I wouldn't take my word for it.. Test the waters, if it doesn't suit you right now,,, you are exactly correct,,, this is part of a bigger reality that will dawn on us naturally, inevitably!!

    The vibrational state is what you make of it... The separation of subtle bodies goes along with the refining of subtler 'mind'.. The clashing frequencies of subtle bodies is the energetic property of a bigger picture... The 'clashing of frequencies' that denotes the separation point where 'mind' is concerned is another thing to consider as well.. I will consider it a natural process that may have some growing 'pangs', as we re-learn the processes involved.. Whereas it may just be that we are in an evolutionary process, so we shouldn't force it,,, It may instead be that we are re-learning and re-awakening a process that has lay dormant over many years of religious, scientific, and governmental manipulation and control, including all of the things that you already mentioned... :

    I posit that forcing astral projection has attending danger of being caught in 4D.

    Meggings,, I rather like that one.. I can't really deny that as being a potential danger for some... I guess the best I can say is that NOT TRYING is not doing yourself any better.. at least with ObE we can get a good running start at some bigger and more profound potentials that await us in our re-discovery (or evolution,, which either is preferred..) Once we verify for ourselves that we are more than our bi-pedal, physical, human bodies,, then a bigger set of questions come into play,, and the vibrational state will not even be remembered... If it were not possible,, then it would not BE possible... I am going to explore further.. I see mastery of the astral, and of our subtle bodies and energetic properties to be our BIRTHRIGHT!!!

    Raising 'our frequency', as you put it will uncover many latent abilities only one of which will be the fully conscious exit projection, or OBE...

    I'd never try and say that my experience with the vibrations will be universal.. I'm mainly pointing out some similarities between the experiences of folks who have the 'vibrations' and the relevance to the ObE.. I have no doubt that there is a bigger story to be told regarding the vibrational state.


    Thanx for the word of caution.
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Thank you for understanding caution is advisable. Just as the new age dogma to "go into the light" upon death is a trap for the soul, it is entirely possible that forcing obe's and seeking "vibrations" is another trap for the seeker after higher truth.

    Are you aware of this below? (taken from a website by a friend)

    Robert A. Monroe, up until the time of his death was the foremost authority on astral travel (out of body experiences) in the world.
    The way in which Monroe was able to leave his physical body at will and travel through myriad frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum, far beyond the time space continuum, is absolutely fascinating.
    Moreover, his ability to traverse time, moving both back in time as well as into the future, is one of the most interesting aspects of his out of body experiences.
    It was these astral travels that would also attract the attention of the U.S. Military Intelligence complex.

    Both the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency would eventually utilize Monroe and his Hemi-Sync process in order to train agents in the arcane science of remote viewing.
    Monroe also had several contracts with U.S. Army Intelligence - an alliance that would last until Monroe's death in 1995.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.


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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    In response to Meggings, I am wondering how someone could "force" an obe? Such a thing I reckon may be possible I suppose for somebody, somewhere. I would be of the opinion that such a thing as forcing one to occur would be rather more unlikely to happen. What would you know of this Jake?

    I would be of the opinion, and I could be very wrong, that one cannot force it but it would occur only when you are ready for it within you. Whether you would know that on a conscious level may depend on the individual involved. We are all unique in our own ways of thinking and "being".

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Post deleted with apologies.
    Last edited by Meggings; 9th October 2014 at 19:21.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Meggings-I would agree with you 1000% regarding bringing in to oneself "higher" frequencies from the start. It was what I had done personally through my own powerful will coupled with, as Castenada would say, unbending intent. When I started my journey to the One, Source, I deliberately chose to skip the astral plains. I had been foolin around in that area for most of my life up until I got very serious with my wanting to know the truth, period. I knew that the astral wasn't where I would find anything I didn't already know or wanted to know from my past wanderings.

    So what you have stated regarding bringing in the higher frequencies is a very important connotation and should be well noted for all. In fact, it should be a prerequisite coupled with clear intent.

    My intent was very clear and therefore my purpose was clear also. That makes a very powerful combination, especially if one's passion to accomplish that knows no boundaries.

    Let me add also, that rather than trying to force anything, I chose rather to work with my own spiritual beingness to communicate to myself spiritually and then to work with it as naturally as I knew how at the time. I learned that spirit trusts you to the extent that you trust it. I learned what I learned regardless of whether I "liked" it or not. lol!
    Last edited by Sebastion; 6th October 2014 at 16:20.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Meggings (here)
    From post #115 by Jake:
    “When we try and trigger the spot in our heads that pull in the 'vibrations', or the 'warmth' (as Monroe would call it),, Robert Monroe gave us a formula for where we properly place our eyes to induce the small cataleptic feeling. The warmth (more intensity and they are vibrations) comes into your head and may cause a tense numbing feeling ...
    Monroe gave us this: With eyes closed, concentrate on a spot about a foot from your forehead; move it to three, then six feet away and rotate it ninety degrees so it sits above the crown of your head. Monroe then recommends you visualize reaching for the vibrations at this spot and pulling them down into your head.”

    Sebastion, this above describes “forcing”, searching for the vibrations , the paralysis, and allowing them/it to spread and have their way with you. I suggest this may be a trap that takes you into lower 4D. Have you heard about the “white light” trap in lower 4D that recycles souls upon death IF you go into the light? It is possible Monroe’s teaching that you pull the vibrations down is also a trap for the soul. Both require your permission in terms of active participation.

    From post #163 by Jake:
    “The vibrations would accompany paralysis and a great rush of raw, primal Fear.. I can't help but draw parallels to my own experience. It is difficult, even impossible sometimes to push forward in the face of great fear...”

    I assert there is no fear in traveling EXCEPT in lower 4D and 3D. I speak from years of experience and am not simply offering opinion.
    Hello, meggings. The eye trick is just a trigger. It is not supposed to be uncomfortable, if it is then you are doing it wrong... Also, it is just so that you can find, and familiarize yourself with the proper place in your head that you stimulate to create energetic flow... I've never had to Force the vibrations... I've had a hell of a time trying to get them under control.. It is wise to be cautious, always...

    After dealing with MY OWN FEAR,, the vibrational state is milk and honey!! My fear (as well as everyone elses) was unjustified and made everything else very bad for me.

    I sit here now, and there is no fear whatsoever regarding ObE for me. Vibrations are natural and flowing, no fear. (there was at first,,, boy-oboy)

    There is no fear now, Meggings.. The great fear that accompanies paralysis and vibrational catalepsy is perfectly normal... Much of the reason that a pragmatic study into the OBE is important because it will provide some knowledge beforehand, so that great fear can be avoided.


    I assert there is no fear in traveling EXCEPT in lower 4D and 3D. I speak from years of experience and am not simply offering opinion.

    Ha,,, good for you Meggings... Fear is a choice,, not a reflection of dimensionality or of mind... You do not transcend into full enlightenment... The mechanics of OBE are not at fault, though the personal aspects of the individual, and their flawed 3d beliefs are what is causing the fear... Sleep paralysis is perfectly normal, the vibrational state is perfectly normal,,, (fear is normal too,,) None of these are a trap, other than set by ones self. Meggings the Fear was my own.. Lots of folks won't fear the same exact experience that another does.. In fact I don't fight the vibrations for longo time now.. I'll sit and bask in them, they feel warm to me now...

    I refuse to accept my role as a 'smart monkey'... I have witnessed for myself the amazing multi-layered sentient beings that we are... The fear dissolved, Meggings... The great fear accompanying the vibrational state was MY OWN... And had nothing to do with dimensionality... Again, lots of folks never have to deal with great fear at the beginning... Not everyone is the same.

    We can have a discussion about your definitions of 3d/4d etc... But you do not transcend or escape your disposition. Have you ever felt fear? That does not mean that it was because you are stuck in 3/d... Do you think that discarnate spirits and astral beings and hyper-dimensional beings do not fear???

    I won't let fear, or anyone projecting fear onto my experience stop me from exploring...

    Getting past the fears opens up another level of freedom in, or out of the body.. As above, so below.. WE have to work on SELF do dissolve fears,,, they don't magically disappear... Just like anger or contempt or malice or hate,,,, Those things will be there until you face them,,, in or out of body doesn't matter... My mind is not 3d or 4d,,,, My physical BODY is!!

    The fear barrier is something that can be overcome,, right here in 3d land... Or it is something that can pop up like a reflex while out of body...

    Exploring our energy bodies and the functions of human capacity is nothing but perfectly natural... What creates FEAR is when people have self doubt, and self questioning...

    It might be more proper to say that by the time we have left 3d/4d,, we have surely gotten control of our fears... Saying that fears only exists within certain boundaries is flawed, a bit,,, though I may be splitting hairs a bit....

    Everyone you quoted and every advanced projector in this study has much to say about the fear barrier... It is necessary for some, Meggings. It does not mean that we are fooling ourselves... And it does not mean that we have limited ourselves... Beyond fear is an amazing freedom that cannot be properly expressed... Can we not transcend fear in the 3d???? Of course we can. Fears are only barriers,, personal barriers,, not 'locale' based... There is no more fear for me out of body. No fear of the vibrations,,, no fear of death,,, nothing.. This took time and personal work.. It didn't have ANYTHING to do with any specific layer of dimensionality... Are we not multidimensional beings, multi-dimensionally 'tasking',,, even now...

    I've had projectors tell me that there is no fear out of body WHATSOEVER... Spoke from experience.... That was completely wrong.. But I did not feel the need to express it to him.. Why would I argue,, my fear was MY problem...

    I'd love to hear how you have transcended the fear barrier... And what makes you insist that fear is merely an emotion, rather than another basic aspect of self... The raw purging fear turns into warm liquidy energy by taking steps to better yourself, heal yourself and allow yourself to become whole again...

    Your logic suggests that there is no way to transcend fear in the physical body,, simply because it is in 3d???? That doesn't make any sense... I have conquered fears in the Astral,,, and come back to the physical with NO fears... No higher being or higher state of order or higher dimensionality,,,, just good ol' personal empowerment and sovereignty...

    I disagree a bit, Meggings. I refuse to buy in to any sort of 'victim mentality' when it comes to ObE... Being afraid of the white light, or being afraid of the vibrations,, are no less FEARS than the raw primal fear that accompanies great knowledge and breaking down of beliefs... Should we note a difference between Physical Fear,, and Subtle fears???

    If we could go through physical life without feeling pain, would we? Pain hurts. Is it necessary?? I'm afraid so! How would you ever know that your body was being harmed if you did not feel pain? How would you ever HEAL if you did not feel pain?? How did your body grow, without feeling pain?? How did you grow Emotionally,, without experiencing great pain?? Granted, others will not have the same experiences and will never feel the pain... Is that because they have transcended PAIN??? I don't think so,, I could be completely wrong...

    Just for the sake of getting folks up and out of their physical bodies,,, it would be irresponsible for me to not cover FEAR as an accompanying aspect to projection..

    Fear is great baggage, and you won't get too far into the astral if you insist on carrying it with you... But to suppose that folks who experience fear are being manipulated and/or controlled by malevolent elements is to PROJECT UNNEEDED AND UNNECESSAY FEAR onto people... Maybe the exact thing that you are trying to avoid...


    (Jake takes deep breath..)

    With all of that said,, will you open up a bit about your experiences? I would love to hear a bit more... I don't know everything. Telling a bit about your experiences is well within the scope of this discussion as the primary source of knowledge (other than personal exploration) will be 'each other', and the willingness to learn...

    I think it is more accurate to say that you are better off leaving your fears behind, before expecting too profound an experience.. I am not yet brave enough to label the levels of dimensionality and insist that my observations are going to be the same as yours... Perhaps you are much more seasoned than I... I am okay with that.

    Would you be willing to share a bit? Years of experience can't be all that bad... lol...

    Jake.

    Quick note: I am not trying to doubt you, just challenge you to help me understand!! I've had folks tell me all about transcending fear,,, but then watch them jump when I yell,,, BOO!!!! lol...
    Last edited by Jake; 6th October 2014 at 16:42.
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    I must say, that having not yet been able to go OOB, I feel like I'm riding a roller coaster of clear, positive intent, which then falls into the abyss of fear of the unknown and doubt in my own ability to protect myself from harm. It fluctuates while reading various perspectives on the experience. Consequently, I don't seem to be fully able to get the fear under control which must mean I'm not ready. I will continue to work with my unruly ego. It definitely has a mind of its own. hehe.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    That is what I was saying in my last post about spirit trusting you to the extent that you trust it. If one cannot trust your own spirit to work in your own best interest, then who or what could you trust besides nothing at all? I will grant you that initially it may be a leap of faith but sooner or later you will realize that your own spirit will prepare the way. One must learn to trust themselves sooner or later.



    Quote Posted by Ascension (here)
    I must say, that having not yet been able to go OOB, I feel like I'm riding a roller coaster of clear, positive intent, which then falls into the abyss of fear of the unknown and doubt in my own ability to protect myself from harm. It fluctuates while reading various perspectives on the experience. Consequently, I don't seem to be fully able to get the fear under control which must mean I'm not ready. I will continue to work with my unruly ego. It definitely has a mind of its own. hehe.

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    I have played catch up with this thread, as I finally have a real internet connection. Only took two months. Go Frontier. Oh well, fascinating reading so far. With meditation, my biggest hurdle so far is, one, not falling asleep, and two, keeping my thoughts from interrupting.
    But, yesterday I was very tired, and laid down, and was just focused on being very relaxed, I was not trying to go to sleep, nor was I trying not to go to sleep, I was just resting and very relaxed. I did not OBE. But I seem to have, I don't even know what to call it, like I saw outerspace. I am pretty sure it wasn't a dream, because I wasn't asleep. But it was the most beautiful colored place. The sky was the most beautiful purple, dark purple, and there was a space ship, also purple, of a different shade, and it was emitting exhaust, that looked like a very fine mist of moisture, a paler shade of purple. I just felt like I saw inside another dimension. It lasted all of 3 seconds, and then a noise from outside brought me back to reality. I have not ever had this experience, and I am not new to meditation, but I am new to meditation being a priority, and having a better focus towards it.
    So, I really don't know what I saw. I dream often when I do sleep, and this was definitely not a dream. But not an obe either. And I don't ever practice RVing either. Any ideas? Did I just imagine this thing without trying?

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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    I have played catch up with this thread, as I finally have a real internet connection. Only took two months. Go Frontier. Oh well, fascinating reading so far. With meditation, my biggest hurdle so far is, one, not falling asleep, and two, keeping my thoughts from interrupting.
    But, yesterday I was very tired, and laid down, and was just focused on being very relaxed, I was not trying to go to sleep, nor was I trying not to go to sleep, I was just resting and very relaxed. I did not OBE. But I seem to have, I don't even know what to call it, like I saw outerspace. I am pretty sure it wasn't a dream, because I wasn't asleep. But it was the most beautiful colored place. The sky was the most beautiful purple, dark purple, and there was a space ship, also purple, of a different shade, and it was emitting exhaust, that looked like a very fine mist of moisture, a paler shade of purple. I just felt like I saw inside another dimension. It lasted all of 3 seconds, and then a noise from outside brought me back to reality. I have not ever had this experience, and I am not new to meditation, but I am new to meditation being a priority, and having a better focus towards it.
    So, I really don't know what I saw. I dream often when I do sleep, and this was definitely not a dream. But not an obe either. And I don't ever practice RVing either. Any ideas? Did I just imagine this thing without trying?
    This reads like the classic example of lucid dreaming.
    "Rather than love, than fame, than money, give me truth."
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Wow, Sid.. Lots of implications there, imho..

    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    my biggest hurdle so far is, one, not falling asleep, and two, keeping my thoughts from interrupting.
    Congratulations! You have stumbled onto two of the biggest hurdles that we all have to tackle! (Technically speaking..) When I refer to 'trance' or trance states,, I am referring to,, basically falling asleep. Falling into levels of sleep, while keeping your mind (gently) awake. There are some exercises that will come in handy for trance induction. There are also some tools that have been developed that may come in handy. When I say 'tools' I mean like,, Hemi-Sync technology. There are free apps and programs that incorporate Hemi-sync into their meditation regiments. Hemi-sync was developed and perfected by the good folks over at The Monroe Institute. Hemi-Sync is where we synchronize the two hemispheres of the brain by feeding different tones (isolated by headphones) into each of the two ears. The two tones are offset by a difference of 4Hz (going off of memory here..). Our brains/minds are magical, and they take the two separate tones, and create a new tone (in your mind) that is not offset, right or left. When you here this new tone, the hemispheres in our brains have synchronized and different trance states can then be induced with much more ease. TMI brought in monks, and philosophers and exceptionally intelligent people in and 'recorded' their brainwave patterns, with regards Hemi-Sync,, and they have Modules that you can listen to, to get yourself into a similar brain/mind state as a monk in deep meditation!!

    There are also simple, basic exercises that we can do without 'tools'. (I will point out here that Hemi-Sync is based on different frequencies being 'out of phase',,, which is my basic take on what the Vibrations are, overall!!!)

    I've always kept Meditation separate from Energy Work, each of them separate from Trance work... Meditation is simply clearing your mind of the monkey chatter. Believe it or not,, this is one of the best things that you can do for yourself. Physical waking mind is much more clear and perceptive,, and the dreaming or projecting mind will be as well. When you are on the verge of sleep and awake,, no matter how hard you try,,, you will fall asleep, if you don't clear out the muck.. All of the surface, random thoughts that our waking minds keep bouncing around will continue to bounce around if you don't take action to stop them. Also,, Your mind on the verge of sleep WILL attach itself to these random thoughts and pull you into sleep. It is a very slippery slope... If you don't have the monkey mind,, slipping into trance will become much easier, and natural. Every time I wake during the night I try and remember what it was that I was dreaming about. Quite often, I will have to really stay calm and still to let the dream bleed back, so I can remember it.. This is a good practice, as it helps us to condition our minds to recall dream memories,,, and conditions our minds to the proper levels of trance... Many times, when I try and lay there and remember the dream,, it was not a dream,,, but it was the same mindless dialogue (monkey chatter) that is there when I am awake.. If I meditate before bed, or a couple of times throughout the day, the monkey chatter silence will continue into sleep, and it will provide for a much cleaner platform from which to project.

    Obviously,,, trance work is pointless if you can't quiet your mind. It takes practice... Buddhists compared the untrained mind to the chattering of monkeys.. The Sanskrit word for it is: Vritti.. There are countless online resources that you can find that can help you to quiet your mind. The best and most potent method is to listen to, and concentrate on your breathing. Pretend you are a little kid playing hide and seek,,, and you have found the best spot, but you have to be reeeeaaaaaaaaaly quiet or you will be found. Shhhhhhhh...... Quiet your mind, and listen to your slow breathing.. Shhhhhhh..... Don't move, keep quiet.... Listen with a 'silent, calm intent'... Just listen to your breathing in and out... You can become the observer, and watch your thoughts go by, instead of becoming instantly distracted by them... After awhile, they WILL subside, and you will be left with a clear calm mind that will drop into trance easily and naturally, without you NEEDING to fall asleep...

    Meditation as a platform for Trance,, and Trance as a platform for Projection... (Notice here that energy work is not part of ObE practice,,, your body should be bouncing and glowing already...) Energy work should be separate, so that you can call it up with just a gentle thought, instead of having to keep a wakeful mind to concentrate on the techniques... Part of the recipe for success here is that we have set the stage beforehand, with regards energy work, and mediation... 2 or 3 separate core skills/aspects that we can incorporate together for the best chance of success...



    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    I am pretty sure it wasn't a dream, because I wasn't asleep. But it was the most beautiful colored place. The sky was the most beautiful purple, dark purple, and there was a space ship, also purple, of a different shade, and it was emitting exhaust, that looked like a very fine mist of moisture, a paler shade of purple. I just felt like I saw inside another dimension. It lasted all of 3 seconds, and then a noise from outside brought me back to reality.

    Well, there are different levels of dreaming. Lucid dreaming is much more real than a normal dream. (I said normal dream,,,,, lol) The lucid dreaming mind is actually preferred over ObE, to many projectors.. I compare the lucid dreaming mind to an Astral Projection,, but one that is much more fine/less dense,,, more into the Astral Proper. I have described an ObE in detail,, but I DO distinguish between OBE and Astral Projection. (Locale I and Locale II, per Robert Monroe) A projection into more astral realms requires the acceptance of viewing and understanding things with a more refined/less dense mind... If your dreaming mind is stuck in a physical 'mode', it will be a normal dream. If you have moved your 'mode of thinking' into a more clear, non-physical mindset,, your dreaming mind (if it engages) will be more clear and lucid...

    I'm not real sure that I need to make too many observations regarding the differences between lucid dreaming and Astral (proper) Projection,, as the implications are the same... Don't be fooled,,, your dreaming mind and your minds ability to function are just as valid of an avenue of discovery as ObE or Astral Projection... There are differences, but I don't think it is relevant at this point... If you are Lucid Dreaming,, That is awesome too... Remote Viewing is a much more 'accurate' practice, when retrieving information from a physical locale.. Lucid dreaming mind is much more 'accurate' when exploring the Astral... With Ob,,, you are actually THERE,, so it is much different, experientially...... The implications may be the same,, and that is the ability to project your consciousness beyond your bodies limitations... I.E.,,, out-of-body-experience..



    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    The sky was the most beautiful purple, dark purple, and there was a space ship, also purple, of a different shade, and it was emitting exhaust, that looked like a very fine mist of moisture, a paler shade of purple. I just felt like I saw inside another dimension.

    Sid, you are a natural.. I am glad you made that observation, so now I don't have to try and explain it... (very hard to put into words..)

    (So now that you brought it up.. lol)

    I have had a series of encounters with different non-physical ETs (for lack of a better word). I have seen giant craft and have been 'buzzed' by lots of different smaller craft. (all in the astral) I can't really talk to much about Extra-dimensional vs Inter-dimensional beings and the differences,,, I will call them all Non-physical, for the time being... There are physical ETs that have mastered the Astral.. (We can level the playing field... ) And there are beings that are NOT physical but exist... And there seems to be less dense 'zones' that exist between the 'phases', from one dimension to the next... (That is where they hide) Please don't let me project my experience onto you, I am just pointing out similarities...

    I have made posts,, (I may find them and link them) regarding a 'purple/misty/hazy atmosphere' that becomes obvious whenever I see alien craft or alien beings in the astral. Others have made this observation too.. I have stood on my front lawn (OOB) and watched as the purple-haze came pouring in and giant craft came into view,, (or smaller).. I don't know if I have phased into a different 'locale', or if the different 'locale' phased into me... I just don't know. But the experiences are real..

    I was out of my body once and was surrounded by the purple.. I saw a smaller craft that was blue,, it looked like one of those JAX that we played with when we were kids,, ya know,,,, the game with the bouncy ball? It looked like that, except it was pulsing a sound (engine??) as it buzzed me... (Flew right over). I looked up and saw a large craft above it. Very large like the size of a Football Stadium, but not round shaped... I was freaking out, I though my physical body was vomiting,, I noticed that above the larger craft was another one... And there were many more smaller ones that I noticed were LARGER ones that were further away.... They are right friggin there... In the astral... Cloaked....

    This is just on experience out of manymany... I had to take some time to draft this response to you, Sid... Don't discount this experience...

    A mental projection into another dimension where you could see the Ets that are part of your life... That is what happened,,, imho...

    I flew up once and into a crowd of smaller craft,, (Yes, into a purple mist). The craft did not move. I felt fear, but anticipation.. I felt whoever was aboard the craft was feeling the same... I forced myself aboard, but it was not necessary... I was getting everything that I needed out of this experience by just hovering in the sky with them... (this was the start of a much larger series of experiences.)

    I don't open up about my Alien experiences too much... OBE is enough to sink our teeth into... I DO know that aliens have mastered the astral, and if we want to level the playing field, then we have to master it for ourselves.. (They realize that too.) The potentials that lay dormant in humans WILL bring us out of the dark ages, if we can muster up the courage to break down the walls that keep us from our birthright,,, THE ASTRAL....


    Love to you, Sid
    Jake.
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    One of the coolest things I learned to do was to teach myself how to "rise" above the thought stream-meaning, viewing it as simply a river of thoughts which constantly flows. When you can see your constant flow of thoughts for what it is, then you can detach yourself from it and just observe the flow without immersing yourself back into it by observing it from "above". This can easily be accomplished by placing your "attention" above your stream of thoughts. It will serve you well to observe yourself from within the mind and taking command of your "attention".

    I used to do this also in a fully awake and conscious state. That method goes a long way towards being able to quiet the mind, whether in meditation or fully conscious.

    This is in reference to the first portion of Jake's previous post. This is even effective when riding high in the sky on a passenger jet. One can "separate" from your hectic life below on the ground and take time to look at where you have been, what you are doing and where you want your life to "go" far more objectively. I enjoyed those opportunities very much.
    Last edited by Sebastion; 7th October 2014 at 16:15.

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    Avalon Member Sidney's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Quote Posted by Jake (here)
    Wow, Sid.. Lots of implications there, imho..

    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    my biggest hurdle so far is, one, not falling asleep, and two, keeping my thoughts from interrupting.
    Congratulations! You have stumbled onto two of the biggest hurdles that we all have to tackle! (Technically speaking..) When I refer to 'trance' or trance states,, I am referring to,, basically falling asleep. Falling into levels of sleep, while keeping your mind (gently) awake. There are some exercises that will come in handy for trance induction. There are also some tools that have been developed that may come in handy. When I say 'tools' I mean like,, Hemi-Sync technology. There are free apps and programs that incorporate Hemi-sync into their meditation regiments. Hemi-sync was developed and perfected by the good folks over at The Monroe Institute. Hemi-Sync is where we synchronize the two hemispheres of the brain by feeding different tones (isolated by headphones) into each of the two ears. The two tones are offset by a difference of 4Hz (going off of memory here..). Our brains/minds are magical, and they take the two separate tones, and create a new tone (in your mind) that is not offset, right or left. When you here this new tone, the hemispheres in our brains have synchronized and different trance states can then be induced with much more ease. TMI brought in monks, and philosophers and exceptionally intelligent people in and 'recorded' their brainwave patterns, with regards Hemi-Sync,, and they have Modules that you can listen to, to get yourself into a similar brain/mind state as a monk in deep meditation!!

    There are also simple, basic exercises that we can do without 'tools'. (I will point out here that Hemi-Sync is based on different frequencies being 'out of phase',,, which is my basic take on what the Vibrations are, overall!!!)

    I've always kept Meditation separate from Energy Work, each of them separate from Trance work... Meditation is simply clearing your mind of the monkey chatter. Believe it or not,, this is one of the best things that you can do for yourself. Physical waking mind is much more clear and perceptive,, and the dreaming or projecting mind will be as well. When you are on the verge of sleep and awake,, no matter how hard you try,,, you will fall asleep, if you don't clear out the muck.. All of the surface, random thoughts that our waking minds keep bouncing around will continue to bounce around if you don't take action to stop them. Also,, Your mind on the verge of sleep WILL attach itself to these random thoughts and pull you into sleep. It is a very slippery slope... If you don't have the monkey mind,, slipping into trance will become much easier, and natural. Every time I wake during the night I try and remember what it was that I was dreaming about. Quite often, I will have to really stay calm and still to let the dream bleed back, so I can remember it.. This is a good practice, as it helps us to condition our minds to recall dream memories,,, and conditions our minds to the proper levels of trance... Many times, when I try and lay there and remember the dream,, it was not a dream,,, but it was the same mindless dialogue (monkey chatter) that is there when I am awake.. If I meditate before bed, or a couple of times throughout the day, the monkey chatter silence will continue into sleep, and it will provide for a much cleaner platform from which to project.

    Obviously,,, trance work is pointless if you can't quiet your mind. It takes practice... Buddhists compared the untrained mind to the chattering of monkeys.. The Sanskrit word for it is: Vritti.. There are countless online resources that you can find that can help you to quiet your mind. The best and most potent method is to listen to, and concentrate on your breathing. Pretend you are a little kid playing hide and seek,,, and you have found the best spot, but you have to be reeeeaaaaaaaaaly quiet or you will be found. Shhhhhhhh...... Quiet your mind, and listen to your slow breathing.. Shhhhhhh..... Don't move, keep quiet.... Listen with a 'silent, calm intent'... Just listen to your breathing in and out... You can become the observer, and watch your thoughts go by, instead of becoming instantly distracted by them... After awhile, they WILL subside, and you will be left with a clear calm mind that will drop into trance easily and naturally, without you NEEDING to fall asleep...

    Meditation as a platform for Trance,, and Trance as a platform for Projection... (Notice here that energy work is not part of ObE practice,,, your body should be bouncing and glowing already...) Energy work should be separate, so that you can call it up with just a gentle thought, instead of having to keep a wakeful mind to concentrate on the techniques... Part of the recipe for success here is that we have set the stage beforehand, with regards energy work, and mediation... 2 or 3 separate core skills/aspects that we can incorporate together for the best chance of success...



    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    I am pretty sure it wasn't a dream, because I wasn't asleep. But it was the most beautiful colored place. The sky was the most beautiful purple, dark purple, and there was a space ship, also purple, of a different shade, and it was emitting exhaust, that looked like a very fine mist of moisture, a paler shade of purple. I just felt like I saw inside another dimension. It lasted all of 3 seconds, and then a noise from outside brought me back to reality.

    Well, there are different levels of dreaming. Lucid dreaming is much more real than a normal dream. (I said normal dream,,,,, lol) The lucid dreaming mind is actually preferred over ObE, to many projectors.. I compare the lucid dreaming mind to an Astral Projection,, but one that is much more fine/less dense,,, more into the Astral Proper. I have described an ObE in detail,, but I DO distinguish between OBE and Astral Projection. (Locale I and Locale II, per Robert Monroe) A projection into more astral realms requires the acceptance of viewing and understanding things with a more refined/less dense mind... If your dreaming mind is stuck in a physical 'mode', it will be a normal dream. If you have moved your 'mode of thinking' into a more clear, non-physical mindset,, your dreaming mind (if it engages) will be more clear and lucid...

    I'm not real sure that I need to make too many observations regarding the differences between lucid dreaming and Astral (proper) Projection,, as the implications are the same... Don't be fooled,,, your dreaming mind and your minds ability to function are just as valid of an avenue of discovery as ObE or Astral Projection... There are differences, but I don't think it is relevant at this point... If you are Lucid Dreaming,, That is awesome too... Remote Viewing is a much more 'accurate' practice, when retrieving information from a physical locale.. Lucid dreaming mind is much more 'accurate' when exploring the Astral... With Ob,,, you are actually THERE,, so it is much different, experientially...... The implications may be the same,, and that is the ability to project your consciousness beyond your bodies limitations... I.E.,,, out-of-body-experience..



    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    The sky was the most beautiful purple, dark purple, and there was a space ship, also purple, of a different shade, and it was emitting exhaust, that looked like a very fine mist of moisture, a paler shade of purple. I just felt like I saw inside another dimension.

    Sid, you are a natural.. I am glad you made that observation, so now I don't have to try and explain it... (very hard to put into words..)

    (So now that you brought it up.. lol)

    I have had a series of encounters with different non-physical ETs (for lack of a better word). I have seen giant craft and have been 'buzzed' by lots of different smaller craft. (all in the astral) I can't really talk to much about Extra-dimensional vs Inter-dimensional beings and the differences,,, I will call them all Non-physical, for the time being... There are physical ETs that have mastered the Astral.. (We can level the playing field... ) And there are beings that are NOT physical but exist... And there seems to be less dense 'zones' that exist between the 'phases', from one dimension to the next... (That is where they hide) Please don't let me project my experience onto you, I am just pointing out similarities...

    I have made posts,, (I may find them and link them) regarding a 'purple/misty/hazy atmosphere' that becomes obvious whenever I see alien craft or alien beings in the astral. Others have made this observation too.. I have stood on my front lawn (OOB) and watched as the purple-haze came pouring in and giant craft came into view,, (or smaller).. I don't know if I have phased into a different 'locale', or if the different 'locale' phased into me... I just don't know. But the experiences are real..

    I was out of my body once and was surrounded by the purple.. I saw a smaller craft that was blue,, it looked like one of those JAX that we played with when we were kids,, ya know,,,, the game with the bouncy ball? It looked like that, except it was pulsing a sound (engine??) as it buzzed me... (Flew right over). I looked up and saw a large craft above it. Very large like the size of a Football Stadium, but not round shaped... I was freaking out, I though my physical body was vomiting,, I noticed that above the larger craft was another one... And there were many more smaller ones that I noticed were LARGER ones that were further away.... They are right friggin there... In the astral... Cloaked....

    This is just on experience out of manymany... I had to take some time to draft this response to you, Sid... Don't discount this experience...

    A mental projection into another dimension where you could see the Ets that are part of your life... That is what happened,,, imho...

    I flew up once and into a crowd of smaller craft,, (Yes, into a purple mist). The craft did not move. I felt fear, but anticipation.. I felt whoever was aboard the craft was feeling the same... I forced myself aboard, but it was not necessary... I was getting everything that I needed out of this experience by just hovering in the sky with them... (this was the start of a much larger series of experiences.)

    I don't open up about my Alien experiences too much... OBE is enough to sink our teeth into... I DO know that aliens have mastered the astral, and if we want to level the playing field, then we have to master it for ourselves.. (They realize that too.) The potentials that lay dormant in humans WILL bring us out of the dark ages, if we can muster up the courage to break down the walls that keep us from our birthright,,, THE ASTRAL....


    Love to you, Sid
    Jake.
    Jake, I am so appreciative that you took the time for that explanation. Thank you. I am also very surprised that my experience with the "purple" is something that others also experience,even down to the mist, who knew???? and IMO, gives it much validation, in comparison to my thinking my mind is just very creative when resting. LOL I have a new favorite color. Purple is the new brown.
    So now that I have a glimpse of this brave new world, I am certainly motivated to conquer my challenges that seem to prolong my learning process. And interesting the different phases of injection, mental vs. full on OBE, and Lucid dreaming and trance etc.. I had no idea there were so many diffferent phases. And I will refrain from trying to keep it all separate for now, as I am certainly at pre-school level for this. LOL But am looking much forward to progressing. Thank you again for this thread and these explanations. Hugs, Sid

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by SamwiseTheBrave (here)
    Quote Posted by Sidney (here)
    I have played catch up with this thread, as I finally have a real internet connection. Only took two months. Go Frontier. Oh well, fascinating reading so far. With meditation, my biggest hurdle so far is, one, not falling asleep, and two, keeping my thoughts from interrupting.
    But, yesterday I was very tired, and laid down, and was just focused on being very relaxed, I was not trying to go to sleep, nor was I trying not to go to sleep, I was just resting and very relaxed. I did not OBE. But I seem to have, I don't even know what to call it, like I saw outerspace. I am pretty sure it wasn't a dream, because I wasn't asleep. But it was the most beautiful colored place. The sky was the most beautiful purple, dark purple, and there was a space ship, also purple, of a different shade, and it was emitting exhaust, that looked like a very fine mist of moisture, a paler shade of purple. I just felt like I saw inside another dimension. It lasted all of 3 seconds, and then a noise from outside brought me back to reality. I have not ever had this experience, and I am not new to meditation, but I am new to meditation being a priority, and having a better focus towards it.
    So, I really don't know what I saw. I dream often when I do sleep, and this was definitely not a dream. But not an obe either. And I don't ever practice RVing either. Any ideas? Did I just imagine this thing without trying?
    This reads like the classic example of lucid dreaming.
    That looks like excellent reading, and have bookmarked the site. Thank you Samwise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  33. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Sidney For This Post:

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    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    Also, try and keep in mind that lots of projectors NEVER have to worry about the 'mechanics' of ObE,, They just do it!! So even if your experiences and definitions of 'states' or 'phases' of mind are different,, the observations may be,, basically the same.. Lots of projectors are never really aware of an Astral Body unless they reaaaallly try and notice... To them they are simply traveling around mentally.. You are no more a pre-schooler than me, my friend. We are only learning.. Your experiences may prove to be much more fruitful to you than mine are to me... I still have lots of work to do on 'Jake'..

    With regards the purple... Yep... I've described it to many many people.... You described it to the T. Just sayin.

    Love to you, Sid
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

  35. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Jake For This Post:

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  36. Link to Post #180
    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

    I'm going to speak a bit about how our dreaming mind may interpret the OBE if you happen to be asleep while you are projecting...


    Ron you may like this. This morning I was having a dream about being chased/bullied by some dudes in a parking garage. I COULD'NT FIND MY CAR!! I was becoming desperate, as the dudes chased me.. I was hiding and trying to think about where I parked.. I didn't even know where I was.. All at once I remembered,,, Holy Crap, this is a dream!! I remembered Avalon and this thread, and even your question about not being able to find your car.. I became much more lucid and decided that I did not have a car, so I jumped from the edge of the parking garage,, I must have been about 4 floors up... I couldn't fly like in an OBE. It was thick and muddy and I was unable to navigate. I hovered in the air for a few moments and then decided to stimulate my crown area. A rushing of energy came from both my head and my torso and met at my chest. I was back in my bed, vibrating.. I 'exited' my body... [The rest is omitted- got caught up looking at the moon]

    Throughout my life, I have noted several dreaming mechanisms that involve Astral Projection and Cars... Not me, necessarily, but folks I've talked to, been to seminars with,, etc...

    I've heard abductees who were having (among other things) dreams about someone tampering with their car... I was talking with an elderly gentleman once who had an NDE.. He said it was switching between a lucid and not-so-lucid experiment... He saw himself above his body,,, then it would get 'dreamy' and he dreamt that he couldn't start his car. Robert Bruce once told me about an Astral Projection that he couldn't remember, just a dream fragment about getting his car tuned up.. When he meditated on it deeply, (to recall the memory) he remembered coming back to his body and there were these translucent astral 'doctors' doing some energy manipulations to his energy body... I was at a 4 day workshop about OBE once where several of the participants woke from dreams where they couldn't get out of their cars. Another projector told me that he was projecting with other people,, experimenting with OBE,,, and each of them reported seeing the others car while out of body. I even heard of a nice old lady that was having a terrible time with what she described as a malevolent entity... She kept having dreams about someone trying to steal the keys to her car!!

    Surely the dreaming mind confuses the physical body vehicle, with a CAR sometimes... It is not an exact science, but I think there is something there regarding OBE. I had to post this, as I just woke up from an OBE that was precluded by a dream about not being able to find my car... Just food for thought... Perhaps you should try some visualization techniques regarding being in your car, and getting out of your car.. Try visualizing (in as deep a trance as you can) yourself driving your car very fast off of a giant ramp,,, like Evil Knievel... Maybe try and visualize yourself racing your car with some of your old service buddies,,, whoever gets there first, gets a brand new Uniform... Then go off the jump in your car and try and feel the sense of flying.... I'm just throwing out suggestions, as I have become quite aware that our dreaming minds work into our overall experience in ways that we can use it to our advantage,,, when considering ObE...

    There is a pretty potent trick that will help you to wake up in your dreams and become lucid.. I have mentioned it before, but I will go over it again, incase someone missed it. There are lots of triggers for projection, once one becomes lucid in a dream.. But how do we become lucid in a dream?? Most people have had lucid style dreams, but they were random and not induced with intent...

    REALITY CHECKS!!!

    http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.c...ty-checks.html
    Quote The human brain creates neural constructs based experiential learning: patterns of thinking based on our real life experiences. For instance, since you have had the experience of gravity your whole life, you don't need to repeatedly question it. You simply know that you can't will yourself to float or take off.

    And so most adults mosey on through life without ever questioning the world around us. We know that the sky is blue, that we can't control objects with our minds, and that walls are too solid to walk through. We become so accustomed to our reality we forget to question it. And this applies in the dream world too.

    However, if you do decide to question your reality on a regular basis, it increases your level of self-awareness in the real world. It pulls your consciousness into the moment. And when this becomes second nature in waking life, it will become second nature in dreams too.

    And this is a direct line to tapping lucid dreams.
    Normally when you dream, you accept it as real life. It's only when you wake up that you realize something was strange.

    By integrating reality checks into your waking life, you will soon do them in your dreams. This will snap your conscious mind to realizing: 'Hey - I'm dreaming!"


    Quote How to Do a Reality Check and Become Lucid

    My default reality check is pushing two fingers from my right hand into the palm of my left hand and willing them to pass straight through. In waking life, this is discreet and always yields the same resistance. In a dream, my willing the fingers to pass through causes it to happen 90% of the time.

    And then I know... I'm dreaming!

    (At this realization your conscious brain will ignite in the dream, your environment will surge into focus and you will have a real sense of who you are, where you are, and what you want to do next.

    Of course, the action is not enough. You need to ask the question "Am I dreaming?" and truly mean it. You need to look around your environment every time you do a reality check, and consider "Is this real?"

    I like to question the solidity of my surroundings. For instance, I might look at a cup on my desk and wonder does that really exist or am I imagining it? Does it go away when I stop looking at it? How about the air - can I see the air? Is it warm, cold, dense, sparse, colorful, invisible? This is how you build self-awareness: questioning your own feelings and perceptions in the moment.

    At the same time, you'll perform your reality check of pushing your fingers into your palm. Do this a dozen times a day (leave notes to remind yourself) and allow each check to take anything from a few seconds to few minutes. Be sure to come to a well-informed decision each time. Don't just ask the question and forget about it. Truly mean what you say, and reach a conclusion.

    Soon you will habitually ask this question in a dream. Bingo. Your mind will be jogged into critical thinking mode and you'll conclude that you're dreaming.

    Top 10 Reality Checks for Lucid Dreams

    Use the finger check if you like, or try out these other effective tests:

    1.Breathe - Can you hold your nose and mouth shut and breathe?
    2.Jump - When you jump, do you float back down?
    3.Read - Can you read a sentence twice without it changing?
    4.Look - Is your vision clearer or blurrier than normal?
    5.Hand - Can you push hand through a solid surface?
    6.Time - Can you read a clock face or digital watch?
    7.Fly - Can you will yourself to fly or hover above the ground?
    8.Palms - Do the palms of your hands look normal close-up?
    9.Mirrors - Does your reflection look normal in the mirror?
    10.Math - Can you add up two numbers for a correct answer?

    For good measure, perform two reality checks each time. If the first one doesn't work (it happens) you have a failsafe. I combine fingers with the palm check.

    Sometimes I try to push my hand through the desk or wall. It is a wonderful feeling when you actually can push your hand through a solid object in a lucid dream. Your lucidity makes this feel real - and, naturally, very weird!




    More on Buhlman still to come.. I had to get that off of my chest, as it was fresh in my mind from this morning.

    Take care.
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

  37. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Jake For This Post:

    animovado (9th October 2014), jerry (12th October 2014), NancyV (9th October 2014), Reinhard (12th October 2014), Ron Mauer Sr (8th October 2014), Sebastion (8th October 2014), Sidney (8th October 2014), william r sanford72 (8th October 2014)

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