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Thread: The Nature of Fear

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    Avalon Member Freed Fox's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear



    Faces of Fear: Doubt

    The more limitations you set for yourself, the more limited you are.

    I would not say we are all limitless; by the simple virtue and fact that we currently reside within physical bodies, we have certain limits. The key is to make ourselves as limitless as we can while occupying our current form.

    Just a moment ago, I wanted to get two things done at once (such that I would have had to have been in two different places at once). I could not, so I had to instead prioritize and compromise. That would be an example of a real limit.

    When I look at the problems plaguing the world today, I feel powerless to make the changes I want to see in the world because I am just one man. That is an artificial limit, until such a time that I have done everything I can to prove otherwise.

    Doubt instills artificial limits, which we all too often fail to question and inspect properly.

    Every great figure throughout history, every heroic visionary, every brave revolutionary wrestled with the fiercest doubts at some point or another in his or her journey. Every one of them would have never been had they given in to the idea of their own limitations.

    Doubt will make a return when we get to the proactive part, the actionable solutions for all of this. For now, it remains as brief as this because - when compared to the other so-called 'faces' of Fear - it really is fairly elementary in essence.
    Last edited by Freed Fox; 24th September 2014 at 20:42.
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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear



    Feedback #2
    (Note: If your post doesn't appear on one of these, please do not take it personally because it isn't meant that way. By the end of this post, my intentions/reasons should hopefully be much clearer.)

    Quote Posted by Skyhaven (here)
    Since this thread is moving towards to the topic of liberation of fear, it might be appropriate to include some insight and tips from Bashar [...]
    A pretty good summary of a rather large part of this "Fear" piece, coming from someone who is not versed with Bashar in general. I was in agreement more so than not. However, I think he simplifies it a bit too much regardless of the accuracy of his message. Brevity and simplicity are not always virtues beyond the benefit they serve in retaining reader/listener attention, saving time, and reaching more people, IMO.

    I am attempting to go about this thread and the ones which will follow and supplement it in an entirely organic way. Messages can be more clear when delivered from the head, but are more pure when delivered from the heart. It is a delicate balance. This thread will (hopefully) become a clearer part of a larger message in time. As with the analogy I used before; Fear is a significant feature of the overall picture, but much else is intended to follow, expanding well beyond its boundaries.

    I cannot really understate how transformed my consciousness feels as a result of this, and how many lessons and previously disparate ideas clicked in such a far reaching way.

    I believe it best to maintain my current focus, with faith. For the time being, that actually means limiting new sources to explore to only those which are both brought naturally to my attention, and I am subsequently inspired to explore. I completely understand that by the standpoint of logic, such is a poor approach to employ when seeking truth. My experience, frankly, defied logic. More importantly, it has done more good for me and those around me in the last four weeks than logic alone ever had in the previous two and a half decades.

    If I can help even one person reach such an epiphany for him or herself, this will have been well worth any effort I believe. I can only have faith in that if I deliver the message with faith.

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    I have to say logic is not going to help much when trying to innerstand ( ) fear, as it is based on the mechanical mind, but it can be useful when combined with other ways of perception.
    As contrarily as it may seem, I'm not really coming at this from a logical standpoint so much as a sort of "heart logic" which I don't lay any personal claim to nor know what to even call for certain. Much of the latter half of my response to Skyhaven above also applies here, essentially.

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    I don't really enjoy reading about any mean @lien plans, and our DNA, because I am sure nobody can either prove or disprove his theory about who the mean ones are and why they are there. Not to mention that I know we are still looking through the filter of what is 'right' v/s what is 'wrong, which are just filters of perception, to be used, but not turned into the only available tool. As is the case with 'logic'.
    I would say a rock-solid foundation of what is "right" and what is "wrong" is actually vital. As the only tool, perhaps not. But it must be the guiding tool, so long as it truly is rock-solid. That is one of the biggest parts of the "bigger picture", of which this thread is only the first part.

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    Fear can be transformed into a different state through the person's perception, called transmutation of energy, done by everyone almost, but not always acknowledged. That happens only when one approaches the situation at the 0 point, the one of lack of emotional input, or as I called it above the point of balance.

    As Yoda would say, fear not.
    And as a film would say, 'danger is real, but fear is a choice'.

    Fear? of what...?
    Yoda basically covered it. Though I haven't studied transmutation of energy, I do see it as essentially a choice. You do not choose to experience Fear, but you can always choose what you do in reaction or response. That is an important link in the chain that we're essentially working on (oops, wrong metaphor ).

    Part of the premise here is that Fear is often unconscious, and so are the actions which stem from it in effect. I hope to eventually make that case, anyway.

    Also, I will write a post at some point to help clarify my distinction between Fear and caution, and why I feel there is an important difference.
    Last edited by Freed Fox; 24th September 2014 at 22:07.
    Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear

    Brief Notice

    This thread is still ongoing, but has reached a point where it felt helpful to begin introducing the other related subtopics of the larger issue.

    Part II is now active.

    I will pick back up with this thread either tomorrow, or shortly in the coming days. Thank you all, sincerely, for your continued interest.
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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear



    Faces of Fear: Pride

    Pride is going to be a tricky one. For one thing, I have not had the same extensive, personal experience with it in the past as I have with guilt, shame, and doubt. Those three were what had been effectively ruling me throughout my life. Though I have been obstructed by my own pride (which I will give a recent, relevant example of), it has been comparatively a less extensive endeavor so far in working to overcome it.

    Furthermore, pride itself seems to me to have at least a few different forms, and at this point I cannot say with certainty that it is always a product/form of inner Fear. I welcome thoughts and experiences on that issue, particularly from those of you who have conquered harmful or limiting pride within yourselves in the past.

    Remember that one of the defining, fundamental traits of Fear is that it serves to obstruct, deter, or stifle the expression of Love.



    MY Pride

    So, the personal experience I wish to relate in this case requires some quick backstory, sparing the bulk of the details:
    • My family was somewhat devastated by a sudden and unexpected divorce, 9 years ago (my high school senior year)
    • The conditions and effects of this divorce caused my siblings and I to essentially side with my father
    • We did not become cut off from my mother effectively; we maintained a (strained) relationship with her, but the emotional distance has been a difficult repair
    • During my second year of college, 7 years ago, I found out in the form of a phone call from my sister that my mother had remarried

    Now, this was a man I did not then know but came to find out was basically (from the judgements upon others I have always been more liberal in allowing myself to make) nothing like what I thought my mother deserved. My three siblings agreed, and as a result of this we began seeing my mother less and less, sometimes as little as we felt absolutely obligated to - such as birthdays, christmas, etc - even when the opportunities to see her were more plentiful.

    You see; all four of us still love her, and we have every reason to despite the picture painted above. She is a kind, loving, optimistic woman with a beautiful soul. The seemingly insensitive things she had done since the beginning of the previously listed timeline (along with the aforementioned omitted details, which are not insignificant) seemed to contradict that. They were things we couldn't entirely, thoroughly move beyond even as we slowly emerged to forgiveness.

    The main deterrent here was (and - in the case of my siblings, for now - is) the man she chose to marry.

    He is an alcoholic. He does not appear to be abusive but is is fairly listless. Worst of all (and again, keeping in mind I am describing this situation right now from my previous perspective), he was just unintelligent. I had come to think that the word "dullard" described him best.

    Keep in mind, I am not proud to admit to any of this, but it is the truth and the truth does count a very great deal.

    This last trait of his was really his biggest "offense". We were always not just a close-knit family in the past, but a fairly intellectual one. One of our favorite past-times when getting together, after we began each in turn leaving for college, was to play trivia and word association games. In our less festive moods we would have sometimes penetrating discussions regarding current world affairs and politics. As children, each of us were encouraged to read and didn't watch much television (this was especially true for my older sister and I, who grew up with 4 fuzzy stations, pre-internet). We each excelled in school.

    This part of our identity was our pride, and this was the way it stifled our Love.



    The Armor of Pride

    Pride protects the parts of our "identity" which, although we we cling to them fiercely, are not ultimately a part of our identity.
    The 'first' and 'second' identities from before spring to mind.

    More relevantly, it obstructs Love by way of setting up limits and barriers, creating a list of exclusion for who or what deserves compassion. This is a mechanism of Fear because it is about insisting on keeping aspects of the "identity" sacred, and keeping things which run to the contrary well away from bringing it into question.

    This is a self-interested Fear because it wants to maintain some feeling of superiority or accomplishment, such that it enforces by necessity the existence of those which are "inferior".

    It is the exclusivity of Love, treating it like a commodity when it should be treated as the greatest virtue in the universe. That is it's own subject I have yet to work around to, though.

    Let's look at other ways pride tends to manifest as a variant of Fear.



    For the Love of Country

    Loving one's own country is not (at the most basic level) a bad thing. Patriotism however, as it has come to be perpetuated today, is.

    Luckily, I don't have to make that case for you guys. I doubt there is anyone here who would even disagree. Appropriately (and just today, "coincidentally") Limor gave an eloquent, and very short manifesto to her homeland of Israel. Dennis Leahy has given his own, albeit much lengthier statement addressed to the homeland he and I share, expressing discontent which should be much more common, in a world whose solid foundations rested in virtue, anyway.

    Perhaps we are not a tiny minority, but the fact of the matter is that all the folks who profit from the lofty ideals of "Patriotism" still have enough men and women to fight their wars for them. To die for them.

    If I'm being honest here, and we're discussing Fear; right now, one of my Fears is that this destructive, reinforced mentality cannot be shaken from the twisted foundations which have served to prop it up and sustain it. That, however, is something I hope we get to later.

    Do those who fall prey to the Patriotism trap not understand that holding one's own country as paramount means by necessity hating or fearing many others? Are they oblivious to the suffering it creates? Do they simply not care?

    For loving a destructive country in the Patriotic way means wishing the destruction of others. An absence of compassion. An embodiment of pride. An embodiment of Fear.



    When the Comedic Make Us...

    On a lighter note, notice how comedy can be basically boiled down to two categories?
    1. Comedy at the expense of others
    2. Comedy at no one's expense

    Of course. But in terms of good comedy, doesn't it feel better to laugh at the second kind?

    I'm not saying there's anything actually wrong with the first kind, especially when the 'victim' could actually stand to be brought down a peg or two (George Carlin was brilliant at that).

    But; I would suggest that some comedians today, who rely entirely on essentially being an a**hole by making cruel and tasteless jokes, are doing so out of misguided pride. For both the comedian and his/her audience, their pride and ego are being shielded and reinforced by the humiliation or shaming of some other group. A group which is not only excluded but implicitly inferior. A group which is denied proper Love on flimsy premises.



    In Conclusion

    I have used all these things I've been trying to relate to reach out to my mother, let her know how I feel, extend to her true gratitude and forgiveness, seek her forgiveness, and be there for her as I have failed to do in these past years. She broke down and cried, telling me she had been waiting for years to hear the exact words I was inspired to say.

    Pride would have forbidden me from that sort of heartfelt honesty, before.

    I have also let down my barrier to her husband, acknowledging that exclusivity is counter to Love. That, again, is for another thread; one which I may proceed with before taking this one too much farther.

    We're still on our way to liberation from Fear as well as a post regarding caution, but Love is a huge part of the overarching issue, and it needs to be done as much justice as Fear I think.

    It is, after all, much greater.
    Last edited by Freed Fox; 25th September 2014 at 21:07.
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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear

    There's a fear I somehow still can't get a hold of, and that's the fear of talking in front of many people, in school, and later at university, this has been a real problem, and it hasn't got any better despite all the practice I had.

    I believe this has something to do with an extreme past life event. Maybe I have somehow spoken to a group of people which led to something horrible...

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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear



    Issue: Public Speaking

    Quote Posted by Skyhaven (here)
    There's a fear I somehow still can't get a hold of, and that's the fear of talking in front of many people, in school, and later at university, this has been a real problem, and it hasn't got any better despite all the practice I had.
    Thanks Skyhaven.

    I do not want to dismiss your suggestion as a possibility, or make any assumptions about you. Instead, I'd like to share an analogous fear of mine with you and what I've figured out about it so far. Whether it is applicable or useful to you in any way or not, I will simply offer this and you can decide that for yourself.

    Although I don't have any major problems with public speaking (which has polled as more feared than death, in some demographics at least), I do have a fear of singing in front of other people. I was an active musician for awhile in college, and though I've played in front of crowds in the hundreds, I've never sang in front of even remotely that many.

    Actually, I can hardly get myself to sing in front of friends and family, unless the radio is loud enough to match my volume.

    As I said; this is an ongoing process for me too. Just because I've found some tools which work for me, doesn't mean I've gotten around to all the work yet.

    What I believe this is for me, is largely the fear of being judged. That may sound too obvious, but it is a prevalent and powerful fear. Even when you've done something a number of times in public, this fear can maintain strength on the simple basis that there are always going to be (at least) a few strangers in the crowd.

    When we speak or perform, we are the center of a lot of attention. We are aware, at least subconsciously, that most if not all the eyes on us are passing judgments. We'd like to think they are kind in their appraisal, or that they are scrutinizing primarily what we are presenting. The truth that we know - perhaps a level or two down the consciousness/awareness gradient, depending on the individual - is that at least some of them are passing judgments upon us.

    For me, this fear would be fed/generated essentially by doubt and pride.
    I doubt how I will fair in their eyes, and I avoid the appraisal to maintain my confidence or esteem.

    I suspect the fear rises in intensity proportionate to how personal or important the subject matter of the speech you're giving feels?

    And do please let me know if I'm way off base.
    Last edited by Freed Fox; 27th September 2014 at 00:35.
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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear

    Yes at first I also thought it was about judgement. Glad you brought up the musician element, because that's actually the topic that makes me doubt it is judgement solely.

    I too I'am a musician I've been on the stage too, mainly as a guitarist, but some years back I decided that I wanted to play drums too. So I practiced a lot, and after some time I was in a band, I still made a lot of mistakes though; losing the beat, putting the entire band off time, and so on. So then an opportunity to perform came along, so at first I felt that it might not be a very good idea, but nevertheless the band wanted, for the sake of (seeming) progression, to perform anyway.

    So before the performance I was a bit nervous about the prospect of derailing a song completely, (which actually happened) but nothing like the fear I experience, when I need to speak in public. So I'am not sure it is judgement alone...

    I've been very interested in the combination of speech, fear and music. Here's another example: people with tourettes syndrome often have a lot of tics in public situations, which seems to be fear-based at some deeper level, yet when they get to sing, and play music these tics dissolve miraculously:



    The same goes for people with a stammer, they stammer in a situation of public speech, but when they sing publicly the stammer disappears.
    Last edited by Skyhaven; 27th September 2014 at 08:38.

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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear

    Quote Posted by Skyhaven (here)
    So before the performance I was a bit nervous about the prospect of derailing a song completely, (which actually happened) but nothing like the fear I experience, when I need to speak in public. So I'am not sure it is judgement alone...
    Well, I think that difference has to do with the dispersion and/or nature of the attention/judgment in play.

    I'll try to clarify (and again, simply offered for whatever it may be worth); when speaking publicly we are truly the central focus for our audience. We are the sole receiver of judgment during that period of time. With music, on the other hand, we are part of something larger. Even when functioning as the lead singer, there is musical accompaniment of some sort and most often other musicians physically on stage with us. This significantly divides the attention, and shares that burden.

    Furthermore, whereas music is largely just entertainment (albeit emotionally expressive in some cases), public speaking is often done in order to present an idea or an argument. It tends to be much more formal, and far less casual a proposition for the audience than "we hope you enjoy this next song". Well worth considering are the differences in atmosphere and attitude between a music venue and its patrons, and the types of settings in which we would typically be giving a speech. Also, whereas playing music is an enjoyable endeavor to most who do it (enough so to at least partially mitigate/alleviate the stresses of performance), far fewer people actually enjoy speaking in front of large groups of strangers.

    I do think speaking is a more stressful/fear-inducing prospect than artistic performance for the above reasons. This, however, boils down to each individual to explore and discover for themselves, within themselves. Hopefully when we get around to the applicable processes for finding and overcoming Fear, at least some part of that will prove useful to those with these types of difficulties.

    Regardless, I want to thank you again for sharing your fear and perspective on it, and wish you the best in overcoming whatever limitations it may be holding over your greater potential.
    Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
    Let your heart not be hardened by injustice and tribulation

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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear

    Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)
    Quote Posted by Skyhaven (here)
    So before the performance I was a bit nervous about the prospect of derailing a song completely, (which actually happened) but nothing like the fear I experience, when I need to speak in public. So I'am not sure it is judgement alone...
    Well, I think that difference has to do with the dispersion and/or nature of the attention/judgment in play.

    I'll try to clarify (and again, simply offered for whatever it may be worth); when speaking publicly we are truly the central focus for our audience. We are the sole receiver of judgment during that period of time. With music, on the other hand, we are part of something larger. Even when functioning as the lead singer, there is musical accompaniment of some sort and most often other musicians physically on stage with us. This significantly divides the attention, and shares that burden.

    Furthermore, whereas music is largely just entertainment (albeit emotionally expressive in some cases), public speaking is often done in order to present an idea or an argument. It tends to be much more formal, and far less casual a proposition for the audience than "we hope you enjoy this next song". Well worth considering are the differences in atmosphere and attitude between a music venue and its patrons, and the types of settings in which we would typically be giving a speech. Also, whereas playing music is an enjoyable endeavor to most who do it (enough so to at least partially mitigate/alleviate the stresses of performance), far fewer people actually enjoy speaking in front of large groups of strangers.

    I do think speaking is a more stressful/fear-inducing prospect than artistic performance for the above reasons. This, however, boils down to each individual to explore and discover for themselves, within themselves. Hopefully when we get around to the applicable processes for finding and overcoming Fear, at least some part of that will prove useful to those with these types of difficulties.

    Regardless, I want to thank you again for sharing your fear and perspective on it, and wish you the best in overcoming whatever limitations it may be holding over your greater potential.
    Thanks freed fox, that's probably it.

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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear



    A Conclusion

    Well, just as life so often does, my path took a turn before me which I failed to foresee.

    For that reason, this will be the conclusion of this and the other promised threads that were allegedly to follow, for the time being. The "old me" would have hated this, or resisted it on the basis of pride and/or shame. The "new me" doesn't see it as an admission of defeat or an exposure of personal misjudgment, but a simple realignment of my perspective, both necessary and uncomfortable.

    The decision to cut myself short in this "endeavor" comes from, in part, one of the core things I've learned and finally taken (increasingly) to heart, which I had been building up to however ponderously. That is, a rather deceptively simple tenet:

    Without action, principles are only ideas.

    Only in the consistent/appropriate application of knowledge does knowledge become wisdom. Life is a remarkable teacher if you can manage to approach it from a positive place.
    The challenge in that is not lost on me.

    How all this applies to this thread; I originally wished to provide a practical framework by which people can, individually (at first), overcome the forces of Fear, Greed, and Unconsciousness in their lives. What I failed to fully appreciate is this; UNTIL I have successfully demonstrated this more thoroughly for myself and my physical surroundings, I cannot responsibly proclaim to a process I have not fully explored. There are feasibly situations in life which I would be unfit to properly apply this method to, for lack of a personal experience analogous enough to be secure in making any judgments.

    I have a certain conviction with regard to the "larger message", such that I realize the need for it to be represented and transmitted from a place of real integrity. If anything, I simply overestimated myself in the latter regard due to my own enthusiasm, in how far I've presently taken it myself.

    It doesn't mean that I have to experience everything, but I'm acknowledging that there may still be fundamental lessons in my future which will alter the way in which I would present all of this, in order to maximize whatever good it may potentially do.

    As long as there's work on my table and unmet challenges being posed to me in my immediate surroundings (which there are), I need to acknowledge that my "knowledge" is not yet "wisdom".



    Thank You

    I believe in the power of actions stemming from positive intent, and because I am at least certain that my intent here was first and foremost to help whomsoever might derive benefit (whether member or guest), I am just going to leave this thread here in it's current form. I don't believe its creation was misguided so much as my own declarations about the "bigger picture". I was fairly naturally inspired to start this thread, just as it feels natural to cut it off here (again, perhaps only for the time being).

    I just have a few final thoughts which I feel I owe to anyone whose stuck it out this far:
    1. Sincerity and Love seem to be the most important and powerful virtues
    2. A prevalent lack of these virtues in the world, along with the perhaps corollary prominence of three "anti-virtues", likely contributes substantially to most if not all of the worlds worst problems, presently and throughout history
    3. Fear, Greed/Selfishness, and general Unconsciousness are the three aforementioned "anti-virtues"
    4. With enough people exemplifying the "virtues" in their everyday lives and surrounding communities, there could conceivably come a critical mass in which the virtues are spread to the level of the collective

    We talk about being co-creators here on this site, and being god-like in our nature. Well, in my honest opinion, the most truly god-like state would be that which exemplifies perfect virtue. It would then follow that the fewer barriers which stand in the way of acting with compassion and honesty, the more god-like one effectively is.

    If you guys have any questions, I will answer them if I can. Otherwise, it may be some time before I take this torch up again, if at all. I don't know what the "big picture" is yet, just what it looks like from the level I'm on.

    My sincerest gratitude to all of you who have taken the time to read, whether for my sake or your own.

    I thank you all on Avalon who have helped me in the past, in both big and small, subtle and overt ways. Every little inch gets us closer to our goal (even when we're running a marathon and too winded to appreciate that fact).

    I also want to thank all of you who sacrifice for others. Whether with measures big or small, thank you to those who demonstrate the spirit of compassion, especially when gratitude or reward are not forthcoming.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Freed Fox; 29th September 2014 at 22:11.
    Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
    Let your heart not be hardened by injustice and tribulation

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    Default Re: The Nature of Fear

    currently i have face many issue dealing with money and right now i'm really freaking pissed off with the society we live in nothing but fear and nothing to help to get rid of it...we can sit all day solution of fear but it only individually not collectively, Society must change, i have heard many time and have said many time in here about a system and spirituality both come in hand needed each other.

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