+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 82

Thread: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

  1. Link to Post #1
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,373
    Thanks
    30,728
    Thanked 27,392 times in 5,007 posts

    Default One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Dear Friends,

    Anyone who has followed some of the threads within which I have participated should have noticed by now my willingness to discuss the touchiest of subjects. One of the most complex and difficult threads to read has been the Horus-Ra thread in the Priority Threads sections. In this thread, the reader will encounter much information related to what are perceived to be "bad" (read "evil") religious or philosophical organizations such as Satanism, Luciferianism, Masonic Orders, Hermetic Orders and on and on.

    It seems logical to me that unless we dissect the philosophies behind these various thought systems, religions, philosophies, etc, then how are we going to ever get a glimpse into the psyche behind these systems such that we might understand their foundational views so that we might then be able to debate these views with those who have adopted them such that real change might occur?

    The only way I see this can be done is if we first can look at the fundamentals behind these systems and this can only be done by first understanding the definitions of these fundamentals. Now. we might be able to debate the definitions but it seems logical to me that as long as we engage in debate, we are never able to get to the core "good, bad and ugly" that we might perceive exists within the foundations of these systems.

    I am going to use the definitions of RHP and LHP as put forth by Dr. Stephen Edred Flowers in his book, Lords of the Left Hand Path - which was written as an analysis of many historical religious and quasi-religious movements as well as the individuals that inspired these movements to qualify if whether or not they could be considered true lords of the Left Hand path - as per his definition.

    So once again - here is a section of text where Dr. Flowers makes it quite clear his definitions of both LHP and RHP and why he sees these two terms to have the meanings he has produced in his book.

    I humbly implore anyone who wishes to participate in this thread do so in the context of these definitions so that we might look at what might be good or bad about any of the means and products either path emulates or creates.

    To put forth these definitions, one must first understand the usage of the terms “objective universe” and “subjective universe” as they are referenced in the definitions of RHP and LHP.

    Quoting Dr. Stephen Edred Flowers – from Lords of the Left-Hand Path

    “The universe is the totality of existence both known and unknown. ...divided into two components, the objective universe and the subjective universe.
    The objective universe is the natural cosmos or the world order. This is essentially mechanical or organic, for example, it is ruled by certain predictable laws manifested in a time/space continuum. The objective universe, including the laws governing it, can be equated with “nature” as well as with “God” in the Judeo-Christian tradition. All of natural science as well as orthodox theology are predicated on the concept that these laws of the objective universe can be discovered and quantified or described in a purely rational manner in the first instance or by “divine revelation” in the other. When considered closely it is evident that what is usually referred to as “God” in orthodox religions is actually identical to that which he is said to create: the natural/mechanical/organic order or cosmos.

    The subjective universe is the “world” of any sentient entity within the universe. There are as many subjective universes as there are sentient beings. The subjective universe is the particularized manifestation of consciousness within the universe. Usually, experience of the objective universe is only indirect, as information concerning it must come through the subjective universe. Curiously enough, the subjective universe does not seem governed by the same natural/mechanical/organic laws as the objective universe. In fact, this is the main distinction between them. The subjective universe has the option of acting in a nonnatural way – free from limitations of the world of five senses and three dimensions (and justone adds the fourth considering time to be that 4th).”

    “The focus or epicenter of this nonnatural subjective universe is equated with human consciousness, or soul, or self. The nonnatural aspect of this soul is clearly and basically indicated by humanity’s drive to impose structures artificially created in that subjective universe upon the objective universe. All artificially created structures (ie. those made by art/craft) are by definition something separate and apart from the natural cosmos – be those structures pyramids, poems, or political institutions.

    Animals, which may have complex social organizations, are bound by nature and by their organic programming. The wolf pack, no matter if in one part of the world or another, now or one million years ago, has the same social order. But you will look in vain to find any two human social institutions that are absolutely identical. Anything that is the product of the subjective universe – individual or collective – will bear the mark of variation.

    Each particular instance of this soul – this phenomenon of the subjective universe – implies the existence of a first form or general principle from which all the particular manifestations are derived. In the most philosophically refined of the schools of the left-hand path this first principle of isolate intelligence is identified as the “Prince of Darkness,” or the ultimate deity of the left-hand path. (Note that words prince and principle both derive from Latin princeps, “emperor, leader,” with the literal sense “he who takes first place.") This is the archetype of the self from which all particular selves are derived.

    This is also an element of the nonnatural universe that objectively belongs to the universe itself. In this way, the Prince of Darkness can be seen as an independent sentient being in the objective universe because this is the very principle of that quality in the universe. Humanity is the only species we know of (Sam adds “that the general public knows of”) which shares that quality.”

    The Right-Hand path and the Left-Hand path

    The central question now becomes what is the way in which this consciousness, free soul is going to relate to, or seek to interact with, the objective universe or the universe as a whole? The right-hand path answers this question simply by saying that the subjective universe must harmonize itself with the laws of the objective universe – be that envisioned as God or Nature. Humanity is to seek knowledge of the law, and then apply itself to submitting to that law in order to gain ultimate union with the objective universe, with God, or with Nature (Sam adds – read this as “union with Source”).

    The right-hand path is the path of union with universal reality (God or Nature). (Sam emphasizes the next statement) When the union is completed the individual self will be annihilated; the individual will become one with the divine or natural cosmic order. In this state the ego is destroyed as “heaven” is entered or a nirvana-like existence/nonexistence is “attained.” This is clearly the goal of orthodox Judaic, Christian, Islamic or Buddhistic sects.

    The left-hand path considers the position of humanity as it is; it takes into account the manifest and deep-seated desire of each human being to be a free, empowered, independent actor within his or her world. The pleasure and pain made possible by independent existence are seen as something to be embraced and as the most reasonable signs of the highest and most noble destiny possible for humans to attain – a kind of independent existence on a level usually thought of as divine.

    Just as most humans go through their natural, everyday lives seeking that which will give them maximal amounts of such things as knowledge, power, freedom, independence, and distinction within their world, those who walk the left-hand path logically extend this to the nonnatural realm. They eschew the right-hand path admonitions that such spiritual behavior is “evil” and that they should basically “get with the program” (of God, or Nature, etc.) and become good “company men.” The self-awareness of independence is seen by many as the fundamental reality of the human condition: one can accept it and live, or reject it and die.

    By accepting the internal, known reality of human consciousness, an eternally dynamic-ever moving, ever changing – existence is embraced; by rejecting it and embracing an external, unknown reality of God/Nature, an eternally static – ever still and permanent – existence is accepted. From a certain enlightened perspective, both paths are perfectly good, it is just the matter of the conscious exercise of the will to follow one of these paths in an aware state without self-delusion.

    Essentially, the left-hand path is the path of nonunion with the objective universe. It is the way of isolating consciousness within the subjective universe and, in a state of self-imposed psychic solitude, refining the soul or psyche to ever more perfect levels. The objective universe is then made to harmonize with the will of the individual psyche instead of the other way around. Where the right-hand path is theocentric (or certainly alleocentric: “other-centered”), the left-hand path is psychecentric, or soul/self-centered.

    Those within the left-hand path may argue over the nature of the self/ego/soul, but the idea that the individual is the epicenter of the path itself seems undisputed. An eternal separation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought in the left-hand path. This amounts to an immortality of the independent self-consciousness moving within the objective universe and interacting with it at will."

    End of excerpt from Dr. Flower's book Lords of the Left Hand Path.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    andrewgreen (5th November 2014), Jake (5th November 2014), KaiLee (5th November 2014), Shezbeth (5th November 2014), Stephanie (5th November 2014), Sunny-side-up (5th November 2014), william r sanford72 (5th November 2014), Zampano (5th November 2014)

  3. Link to Post #2
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Thank you for the above definitions. You've explained something to me I'd never realised before. The idea of the individual obtaining (and keeping) power beyond this 3D reality. Beyond physical death, to be as gods. Interesting. I have no doubt that's what many choose. I wonder if it is actually possible beyond a certain point? And where does that certain point lay?

    Assuming it could be done, why? Wouldn't there be a crux reached where the acquisition of power would become pointless? Unless, of course, one subscribes to the idea that Creation merely created for the experience of experience itself.
    And if so, then it should be done. But that makes a very messy creation of competing gods grasping for ultimate power. With the original Creation being less than its creation.

    Hmmmm... Much to think about.
    Last edited by KaiLee; 5th November 2014 at 05:35. Reason: Spelling

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (5th November 2014), Shezbeth (5th November 2014), Sunny-side-up (5th November 2014)

  5. Link to Post #3
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,373
    Thanks
    30,728
    Thanked 27,392 times in 5,007 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    I would imagine it is important to define power and, as happens with magical beings, synchronicity is fully in play. Just moments ago I read what I thought was a wonderful description of the type of power that was attractive to me and I quote - [source]

    Quote As power is not to be confused with force, it is important to clearly distinguish these two ideas. The idea of power is that which can flow from a non-corporeal entity, such as an individual, an ideal, or an aeonic Word. For example, words such as Xeper, Remanifest, and Runa all carry a great deal of power but do not entail force. The use of brute force is antithetical to real power, as real power takes effect by virtue of itself. Hence no one would force another to accept an individual, an ideal, or an aeonic Word.
    And just yesterday I was chatting with an amazing being who is affiliated with our forum and she was mentioning "the Nine Fold loves of humanity" as was shared with her by John Lash - and one of these was power...

    "Love of Power - Inner power and strength, never over another."

    and finally just a few minutes earlier I was watching this presentation where the presenter shares his take on the three primary interests of human beings and one is power - perhaps you might enjoy this video.

    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Jake (5th November 2014), Shezbeth (5th November 2014), Sunny-side-up (5th November 2014), william r sanford72 (5th November 2014)

  7. Link to Post #4
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Yes, that's the type of power I was referring to. I also watched the video. It reminded me why I left a degree in sociology in disgust. ( Sociology aka how to manipulate the world or why you're manipulated by it )
    Anyway...

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (5th November 2014), Shezbeth (5th November 2014), Sunny-side-up (5th November 2014), william r sanford72 (5th November 2014)

  9. Link to Post #5
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Here's the problem with the LHP as I see it. At some point one must address the form of power that is created via the RHP. It can not be accessed with the view of complete independence. To access the whole, the adept would have to, at the very least, become neutral. Thus releasing the desire for complete independence.

    When I originally started to think about the crux of this problem the image of infinity entered my mind.
    A never ending cycle of the individual intelligence gaining and losing control for its own purposes.
    Last edited by KaiLee; 5th November 2014 at 08:16. Reason: Clarification

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    animovado (5th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Jake (5th November 2014), Sammy (5th November 2014), Shezbeth (5th November 2014)

  11. Link to Post #6
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    I believe Stephen Flower is addressing this problem here.
    http://openrevolt.info/2012/03/21/th...edred-flowers/
    However, I think he believes the problem has a solution. I'm not so sure.
    It could be argued that society has been manipulated into a disintegration of wholeness in the hope that the wizards could then utilise the power of individuals, but as a group. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked. A new idea to bring together individuals into a group will/is also set to fail. The power of the whole must contain all integrating with and for one another. Exclude one, and it no longer is whole.
    No wonder a few go insane.

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (5th November 2014), Shezbeth (5th November 2014), william r sanford72 (5th November 2014)

  13. Link to Post #7
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    12th April 2012
    Location
    east coast suburban sprawl
    Posts
    2,896
    Thanks
    11,666
    Thanked 16,349 times in 2,717 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    If you are really honest with yourself (and are like me, as a being, experiencing this reality in a similar way that I do), the only thing that is actually “real” is your experience.

    The reality we find ourselves necessitates “power” and/or accumulation of material “wealth” in order to experience everything you would choose from the list of those available to us.

    I believe that this is a lie…and it underlies this conversation—that lie only exists with the even further underlying lie that “duality” is the driving force of our free will.

    It’s this denial, this belief in black/white, right/wrong…this is an agreement of the collective consciousness that we are born into.

    There isn’t just “this” and “that”, there’s also the substrate that this and that exist in, which seems infinite in potential. Maybe we’re looking at this thing the wrong way? Magic is just another form of trying to experience what we want.

    I found it empowering to find out how better my life can be when I learned not to take it personally that some “things” (beings, entities, humans) think they want the experience where I am getting harmed (whether they—or I—know it or not). It sounds simple, but look at troubles in life as problems to be solved (or not—just let go of them), and you will be able to have experiences as satisfying as (or maybe even moreso) any god or king or bazillionaire…

  14. Link to Post #8
    Avalon Member 13th Warrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th November 2010
    Posts
    1,192
    Thanks
    1,196
    Thanked 2,859 times in 904 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Quote Unless, of course, one subscribes to the idea that Creation merely created for the experience of experience itself. 
    This stumbling block is removed if one believes incarnation facilitates soul evolution.
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

  15. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to 13th Warrior For This Post:

    chocolate (5th November 2014), greybeard (5th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Jake (5th November 2014), Sammy (5th November 2014), Shezbeth (6th November 2014)

  16. Link to Post #9
    Avalon Member Jake's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th May 2010
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,458
    Thanks
    14,781
    Thanked 19,237 times in 2,541 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    I am biased by my experiences.. My experiences are subjective, but my bias is based in objectivity.
    Quote I think, therefore,, I AM... (I think.. lol)
    I also have experienced infinite.. I found myself alone,, and wondering if I could find 'oblivion'.
    Quote To BE, or NOT to be?
    Even the memories of those moments,, I experience NOW...
    Quote Wherever you go, there you are!

    I have longed to return to my former, non-physical self.. However,, not as much as I have longed to be right here where I am... I think there are only two elements to consciousness,, what is KNOWN,,, and what is NOT KNOWN.. That, to me,, is the difference between subjective and objective existences...

    There may just be an internal conflict with regards physical and non-physical existences...
    Quote The grass is always greener on the other side.
    I have created things in dreams, and found them in 'reality'... lol

    Love to all.
    Jake.
    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. Yoda....

  17. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Jake For This Post:

    13th Warrior (5th November 2014), greybeard (5th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (5th November 2014), Sebastion (5th November 2014), william r sanford72 (8th November 2014)

  18. Link to Post #10
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Having very quickly breezed through some of your other threads I wish to bring up some comment.

    First. The premise that the finality of the RHP is annihilation into source (the original Creation). I'm not convinced this is so. Once again assuming Creation, created in order to experience, experience. Annihilation of each individuated experience would be akin to unknowing a thought.

    Next. The LHP's obsession with being independent from Creation requires obtaining power from another source. Ultimately, this must lead to the cajoling, trickery and lying to others. It must lead there because few will willingly hand over their power (or their innate section of Creation).

    Using the story of Lucifer we see that he was Gods most beautiful creation. His favourite. One could argue that Lucifers independence was his exact beauty in Gods eye. But Creation (God) went further. A more dense experience was created culminating in man. Ever since, Lucifer has looked to man to prove his independence from God and attempt to subsume God by overtaking his creation.

    One could argue that the more intelligence desires independence, the more satisfied Creation is with its experience. This harks to free will and do what you will. But, independence requires power from any source other than Creation. This is where independence becomes psychotic and delusional. Sucking power out of the unwary, ignorant and even the innocent.

    The biggest joke is; gaining power that way is still accessing the power of Creation. Just in a convoluted way. And it still arrives at the original problem. How does this accumulated power access the whole while steadfastly insisting on independence?

    Eventually there must be a bottleneck of independent gods all squabbling over the crumbs of Creation within each other refusing to look within for the ultimate Creation for fear of annihilation. No wonder God loves you. Group theory states that only through conflict can the ultimate truth of the creative process be known.

  19. Link to Post #11
    Avalon Member 13th Warrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th November 2010
    Posts
    1,192
    Thanks
    1,196
    Thanked 2,859 times in 904 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Quote Next. The LHP's obsession with being independent from Creation requires obtaining power from another source. Ultimately, this must lead to the cajoling, trickery and lying to others. It must lead there because few will willingly hand over their power (or their innate section of Creation). 
    No, not independence from creation/creator but, independence from the "objective universe".

    Your perspective stems from a orthodox/religious view that clings to mental programing of what good/evil is; thus your notion of right/left hand path also being good/evil.

    What if what you read in scripture of Lucifer and YHWH are the same being?
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 13th Warrior For This Post:

    Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (7th November 2014), Shezbeth (6th November 2014)

  21. Link to Post #12
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    From where I'm standing YHWH is just another god.

    I see your point in regard to independence from the objective universe. However, if Lucifer is now placed as the original expression of intelligence, you still have the same bottleneck problem.

    I did not start from the point of left/right being evil/good. If the goal of the LHP can be achieved, then it should be. My issue is with the process. The LHP sees attainment of the goal the only priority. Survival of the fittest. The consequence to other sentiments, on the march to independence, is of no consequence.

    It's a bit of linguistic trickery to lament; "you just want to label us as evil".

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (7th November 2014), Shezbeth (6th November 2014)

  23. Link to Post #13
    Avalon Member 13th Warrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th November 2010
    Posts
    1,192
    Thanks
    1,196
    Thanked 2,859 times in 904 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Perhaps this analogy is more understandable?

    The movie "The Matrix"

    Neo is a master left hand path practitioner.

    Mr. Smith is a master right hand path practitioner.
    Last edited by 13th Warrior; 6th November 2014 at 01:57.
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 13th Warrior For This Post:

    Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (6th November 2014), Shezbeth (6th November 2014)

  25. Link to Post #14
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Does Neo end up completely independent? I havent watched the whole of each part of the Matrix.

    But I get your point. Not sure I agree. It's perspective really, isn't it! I sure don't see myself as one trying to destroy others rights to attain godhood. Which being mr smith would suggest.

    If the LHP is Neo, then rejection of the collective is understandable. But what of all the other independents? It's all perspective again.

    I feel I've reached a stage in this conversation where my contribution is limited. I still think the original premise of annihilation via the RHP is incorrect. Perhaps it's just a lack of understanding and learning on my part.

  26. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    13th Warrior (6th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (7th November 2014), Shezbeth (6th November 2014)

  27. Link to Post #15
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Ok... So being me, I had to go look for learning. I came across this interview. It's a bit annoying at the intro with what feels like modern cool 'branding'. But the interview is good. And, it appears to more succinctly discuss some points brought forth by others here.
    Last edited by KaiLee; 6th November 2014 at 22:52. Reason: Spelling

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    Sammy (7th November 2014)

  29. Link to Post #16
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,373
    Thanks
    30,728
    Thanked 27,392 times in 5,007 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Thanks for introducing me to this resource, KaiLee in post #14 - I enjoyed the video and have found more that I have enjoyed from this same source. Definitely Left Hand Path oriented material.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  30. Link to Post #17
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Yes, I have too much time on my hands. I've done tonnes of research now. And I'm starting to see why this information has been kept secret. What I'm seeing is this:
    The original Creation is the source of the dark and the light. Not much new there.
    However, the LHP view sees the RHP as only attaining towards the light, thus ending in annihilation. Whereas the LHP sees itself resolving the dark and the light within (since both are Creation) and somehow manifesting a new better identity of Creation, along the lines of evolution.
    While I agree with addressing the light and the dark, I'm repelled by the evolutionary part. And again, I still don't hold with the annihilation part.
    Here's where things get tricky, and my belief for the secrecy. Mostly untapped sources of power are found in the taboo. All things that dogma, authority and our mothers said aren't nice. Fine, a great deal can now be reassessed as mere ritualistic habit of avoidance. However, as one moves forward through the taboos of choice, the temptation to further remove ones self from the mundane increases. To walk down the LHP requires strong principles and discipline. Unless of course you have only self interest and no compassion for others.
    What I also see is a world of people being manipulated into performing the majik of much grander masters of the LHP than they could ever dream of. The taboo becomes yearly more and more mundane in every day life. We know, for example, how much advertising manipulates behaviour. I know, through my studies, that it doesn't stop there. Another example is my countries government decision in the late 1990's to make its people more resilient. A noble manipulation, until you think about it, but a manipulation non the less. The point being, less principled masters are manipulating less disciplined masses into the LHP. Most are blindly conjuring powers, often without even knowing it. A few are delighting in the quick route, without care to consequence. Some have shifted completely to attaining towards the dark in search of ultimate power.
    Underpinning it all is the promise of godhood. (Which in all honesty I don't know why that attracts anyone anyway. Call me naive.)
    The result of all this, in my view, is the quite abhorrent nature of the world as we see it today. One where the most excellent master of manipulation 'wins'. His hoardes of minions (every conjurer of majik, every diviner of power, every adherent to godhood) unconsciously creating a larger and larger well of power to draw on. Thus, the mandate of secrecy in the past.
    The LHP has much that it can teach. There's much that requires maturity of the individual in order to avoid traps. The vehement rejection by many is because the traps are not easily avoided. Self agrandoisement and delusion seem common. Again the reason for the requirement for secrecy and probable ostricisation of the practises.

    But, it appears the grandest masters have reached a certain threshold and the secrets are coming forth. My questions would be; how much of my personal practise is a manipulation I'm succumbing to?
    Is godhood really attainable? If so, what does it mean to share godhood with the others? And on doing so, where to from there?
    Am I disciplined enough to go down this path? Where do my boundaries lie, precisely? How much do I have to filter out in my learning and how effective is my filtering process anyway?

    It's no good repeating over and over LHP doesn't mean evil when a large portion of LHP followers are skipping lightly into realms of the dark to sustain themselves. And until this is recognised and acknowledged, one must wonder if the adept is self aware enough to continue on this path safely.

    Finally, the promise of godhood or the threat of annihilation is the exact same story told by those of the churches. Just tipped on its head and spread to extremes. Really?, that old chestnut! C'mon,

  31. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    animovado (8th November 2014), chocolate (8th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), william r sanford72 (8th November 2014)

  32. Link to Post #18
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Last edited by KaiLee; 8th November 2014 at 05:14. Reason: Make link work

  33. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    chocolate (8th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014)

  34. Link to Post #19
    Australia Avalon Retired Member KaiLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th August 2014
    Age
    53
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 585 times in 129 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Last of all, a very well written piece on the problems with both the RHP and the LHP. Thank you to everyone who contributed here, and thank you for the OP. I've learned much, not least of all, the re realisation of my ignorance. The most valuable lesson learned here by far.

    http://www.detoxorcist.com/left-hand...hand-path.html

  35. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to KaiLee For This Post:

    13th Warrior (8th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), Sammy (8th November 2014)

  36. Link to Post #20
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,373
    Thanks
    30,728
    Thanked 27,392 times in 5,007 posts

    Default Re: One more try - Discussion of the pros and cons of RHP and LHP within the context of the supplied definition

    Today, I desire my journey is never ending... which means my goal is anything but the pure goal of RHP (as defined above).

    So whatever path I take, if it must be labeled, it would be "any path left of right and there is nothing further right of right."

    Yet I also reserve the right to say, "You know what? I am tired of all this." And if that day comes, my last shred of individuation may very well melt away and all that will be left would be source.

    And yes, it seems it would be ignorance which leads solely to authoritarianism that suggests one is aligned with RHP and can retain in a sovereign fashion any hint of individuality and individuation. Those, to me, are the hardest nuts to crack and those, for me, are the ones I wish to avoid.

    Note: I found this in the link posted in post #19

    Quote 'Right-Hand Path belief systems generally share the following properties:
    - Belief in a higher power, such as a deity.
    - Obedience to the will of a higher power.
    - The belief that there is an absolute definition of good and evil that applies to everyone.
    - Esoteric belief in a supernatural mechanism like Karma, divine retribution, or the Threefold Law, which entails the assessment of moral decisions made in one's lifetime.
    - The ultimate goal of merging the individual consciousness into a greater or cosmic whole.'
    So all I am saying is that I maintain my right to call it quits. What I am also saying is that anyone who claims they are RHP yet has chosen to retain their "soul" for eternity will achieve a goal of eternal submission and subjugation.

    There are members of the forum who verbally participate in the paradigm where beings known as the Alpha Draconian exist. The Alpha Draconian model of existence is that there is a single being (a monarch that also must be male) on top of a hierarchy where all beings below that being are hive minded to this primary monarch. I see little difference in the "one step short of self-annihilation" sub path of RHP than this Alpha Draconian model. And yet also so many of these same people rail against the Alpha Draconis. For me, this is nothing short of pure self-deception.
    Last edited by Sammy; 8th November 2014 at 15:18.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  37. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    donk (8th November 2014), Grizz Griswold (15th November 2014), william r sanford72 (8th November 2014)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts