What some of the Disciples ate

[Catsquotl]

I like this thread..
Here we are usualy disputing the actions and explanations of the church and now somehow trusting what some version of the bible hints at when it comes to vegetarianism.. I am literaly sitting in the couch laughing my ass off.

[13th Warrior]

Posted by WhiteFeather (here)

Posted by SamwiseTheBrave (here)
Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

And what about the Winter Solstice you forgot to add in to that mix Samwise. Doesn't that come around Dec 25th.

The Winter Solstice is the 21st but, i understand your confusion.

[lucidity]

Posted by KaiLee (here)
Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

And I can't find the quote, but it's from one of the banned gospels too. Jesus spoke about only eating the amount of food one could comfortably hold in the palm of your hand. He also advised to eat local food, not food from other districts or from trade.

The problem with this idea about only eating the food you can hold in the palm of your hand is that
it unfairly distributes food.
=> Men typically have larger hands than women.
=> Tall people typically have larger hands than short people.
=> Thin people have proportionally larger hands than fat people
(ie. relative to their weight and hence relative to their food requirements)

There'd soon be a lot of very irritable short, fat women.

How many 'palms' of food did he suggest each day ?

be happy

lucidity :-)

[observer]

Posted by nzreva (here)
Click-on the forwarding icon to view the OP's first comment.

It matters not to me what the Nazoraions, nor what Yahoshua did, or didn't eat. That historic record has been so misconstrued over the last two thousand years, no one can tell you what really happened. It also matters not to me what any individual living, or decease eats.

What does matter to me, for my own conscious progression, is that, what I eat I have participated in the ritual from the procurement to the table.

• I personally believe the holiday eating traditions - of all individuals - would be radically altered if, as a part of the eating ritual, it was required to participate in the sacrifice.
• I believe many a holiday beast would disappear from the table if everyone consuming that beast were also a participant in the slaughter.
• Allowing another individual, or an entire industry, to do the "dirty work", while every conscious being simply partakes of the harvest, from my humble point of view, is the sacrilege.
• I personally will not eat any sentient being, because I personally refuse to take the life of that being simply to feed.
• I personally feel no sentient being has the right to feed on any other sentient being - in any capacity.

My personal interpretation of why Yahoshua over-turned the tables of the bankers in the temple was directly related to the consumption of the sacrifice, and being required to pay excessive charges to the proxy.

[Milneman]

It matters not to me what the Nazoraions, nor what Yahoshua did, or didn't eat. That historic record has been so misconstrued over the last two thousand years, no one can tell you what really happened.

Including the name you're using, the language you're using, the method you're using to express your ideas, the way you are able to discern between what matters to you and what doesn't matter to you, and your ability to know that you are 'consciously progressing'.

Not that I disagree. But I would like to point out that your method leads to radical skepticism. Your first paragraph implies we can't have true knowledge about anyone historical. Scary reality? That means you can't know the stories your family tells you about your ancestors are true either. Which means....get ready for it....its logically possible that your immediate family are the result of clones, and you actually came from a vat of green goo that was made from cow udders (yes, sentient beings, and now we know why the animal abductions are happening...to clone people like you so you can write posts like this one. ).

It also matters not to me what any individual living, or decease eats.

What does matter to me, for my own conscious progression, is that, what I eat I have participated in the ritual from the procurement to the table.

It mattered to Socrates. It also mattered to Turing!


I personally believe the holiday eating traditions - of all individuals - would be radically altered if, as a part of the eating ritual, it was required to participate in the sacrifice.

Agreed. And to underline this, I've participated in hunts where the game is then subsequently butchered, divided among the families of the hunters, and subsequently eaten.


I believe many a holiday beast would disappear from the table if everyone consuming that beast were also a participant in the slaughter.

Agreed. I also hypothesis that most people wouldn't say what they do if they thought through what it would eventually mean to their core beliefs, including making babies, driving cars, turning on computers, consuming any form of energy created by fossil fuels, ad nauseum.


Allowing another individual, or an entire industry, to do the "dirty work", while every conscious being simply partakes of the harvest, from my humble point of view, is the sacrilege.

So to follow this example, and extend the analogy, anyone who wanted to consume the flesh of a plant should have to participate in the growing and harvesting of that plant. Don't mistake that I think there is incredible physical, emotional, and spiritual value in gardening, but your argument goes a bit wonky at this stage because its simply impossible for every individual that's going to consume the plant to participate in the harvest of the plant. In fact, I believe if you move into the realm of history (that is, if you can allow yourself to do that give the way you disassociate yourself from historical fact as a means of valid extrapolation of fact), you may in fact see how this principle, when applied by government leaders in various socialist countries, has in stead lead to the mass death of populations. So how to resolve this disconnect?

I personally will not eat any sentient being, because I personally refuse to take the life of that being simply to feed.

How do you define sentience? Is a plant sentient? The latest research seems to be indicating that plants do in fact have some kind of sentience. If that's the case, you better start getting comfortable with the idea of a pure water diet. Fruit, sorry mate. You're eating the aborted foetus of an apple tree.

I personally feel no sentient being has the right to feed on any other sentient being - in any capacity.


Does this apply to mothers who breast feed their children? I'm thinking probably not. We may not have the right, but in some countries there is no other alternative. So is this the condition of the rich only that we can be generous to sentience as a means of choosing what to and what not to eat? How do we extend the same moral principles to people in poorer countries who may only have the fish they catch, or the bush meat they eat? What about the cultural context that you seem to be ignoring here, that necessary spiritual link between the people on the land and the animals that they hunt, and the communion that exists between those animals being consumed and the indigenous populations that (still today!) participate in this practice as a way of practicing their spiritual beliefs? Would you suggest that their practices are less valid because they do not consume in the way that you consume, or suggest one should consume?

My personal interpretation of why Yahoshua over-turned the tables of the bankers in the temple was directly related to the consumption of the sacrifice, and being required to pay excessive charges to the proxy.

And another interpretation of why Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers could be linked to the idea of false gods, or the god of "money", or the disconnect between the physical reality and the transcendental message of Christ. What the post fails to realize is that this is, among many, only one idea that has flaws as well as strengths. Although I can agree with some of the strengths, I must maintain the stance that this discussion, although interesting, has really very little theological significance at all to the core message of the Gospels.

Of course, your milage may vary, and what you eat at the truck stop may also!

[Milneman]

Posted by SamwiseTheBrave (here)
Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

OR Jesus is the hen and the twelve disciples are the dozen eggs we usually buy, meaning we should eat more eggs to be closer to God and chicken if we REALLY want to be closer to God.

Sam....Really?

Part of a correct means of discernment is knowing the difference, when allegory and reality mix, are the same, aren't the same, are in different degrees.

There's a very simple way to do this; unfortunately most people won't enjoy the method because it means making certain commitments and changes in world view that would mean giving up a lot of really 'cool' stuff for some really 'healthy' stuff.

It works for Tolkien. The Gospels? Not so sure. Even Tolkien knew the difference.

[heyokah]

**

POOH, are u bored, or what?

[13th Warrior]

Oh the irony you speak:

OR Jesus is the hen and the twelve disciples are the dozen eggs we usually buy, meaning we should eat more eggs to be closer to God and chicken if we REALLY want to be closer to God.

The egg or more specifically the yolk has great occult meaning that surely will bring you closer to God.

Tolkien knew this, as evidenced by reference in "An Unexpected Journey" and the game of riddles played by Bilbo and Gollum.

[Billy]

Posted by KaiLee (here)
Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

And I can't find the quote, but it's from one of the banned gospels too. Jesus spoke about only eating the amount of food one could comfortably hold in the palm of your hand. He also advised to eat local food, not food from other districts or from trade.

Mathew 15: 15-20

15 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Explain to us the parable that says people aren’t defiled by what they eat.”

16 “Don’t you understand yet?” Jesus asked. “Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. But the words you speak come from the heart—that’s what defiles you. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you.”

I agree.

[thunder24]

Posted by Catsquotl (here)
I like this thread..
I am literaly sitting in the couch laughing my ass off.

dang, i'v heard this expression but never has someone said they literally did it... so DOES IT HURT?


...HEY winnie the pooh...

Eat more hunny... it squills when you chomp...

[Milneman]

Posted by heyokah (here)
**

POOH, are u bored, or what?

Nope, tiddly-pom.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by thunder24 (here)

Posted by Catsquotl (here)
I like this thread..
I am literaly sitting in the couch laughing my ass off.

dang, i'v heard this expression but never has someone said they literally did it... so DOES IT HURT?

...HEY winnie the pooh...

Eat more hunny... it squills when you chomp...

ROFLMAO! *Figuratively, although literally I'm giggling.*

[observer]

Since some of the members seem to have nothing better to do, to entertain themselves, than to sit-around and nit-pick other member's comments, here's something that might entertain everyone.

"Tell ya-all what I'm gonna do. I ain't goinna take two, four, six, eight o'you cats; I'm gonna take twelve o'youz studs, and straighten you'all at da same time":

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=U0x5x8lyON8

When the tribal elders speak at council, they are given respect by the young braves.

One had to go quite some distance down the road to ever have heard of Lord Buckley....

[heyokah]

Posted by observer (here)
Since some of the members seem to have nothing better to do, to entertain themselves, than to sit-around and nit-pick other member's comments, here's something that might entertain everyone.

"Tell ya-all what I'm gonna do. I ain't goinna take two, four, six, eight o'you cats; I'm gonna take twelve o'youz studs, and straighten you'all at da same time":

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=U0x5x8lyON8

When the tribal elders speak at council, they are given respect by the young braves.

One had to go quite some distance down the road to ever have heard of Lord Buckley....

Jesus' working profession as "carpenter kitty".
................

So The Nazz look at them cats and kitties
and he say, "You hungry, ain't ya, babies?"

And the cats say, "Yea, Nazz."
Say, "We was diggin' so hard on what you was puttin' down
we didn't pre-pare." Say, "We goofed."

So The Nazz say, "Well we gotta take it easy here.
We wouldn't want to go ahead and order up something
you might not like, would we."

And they said, "Sweet double hipness, you put it down and we'll pick it up."

And the Nazz step away a little bit. And he put a glorious sound of love on.

He said, "Oh, sweet swingin' flowers of the field."

And they said, "Oh, great non-stop singular song to beauty."

And he said, "Stomp upon the terra." They did.

He said, "Lift your miracle the body." The body went up.

He said, "Lift your arms." The arms went up.

He said, "Higher." They went higher.

He said, "DIG INFINITY!" And they dug it!

And when they did, Whap!, there was a flash of thunder
and they looked in one hand was a great, big, stuffed, sweet, swingin', smoked fish.

And in the other a long, gone, crazy loaf
of that southern, home-made, honey-tastin', sweet bread.

Why, these poor cats flipped!

The Nazz never did nothin' simple.

When He laid it,
He laid it.


............

[Chester]

Based on the garbage that the current Holy Babble has been written, rewritten and along the way many times translated into... it seems what most (if not all) the disciples ate was...

... crow.

Suggest the Gospel of Thomas for what the guy (Jesus) really taught.

[observer]

Posted by Atlas (here)

Posted by nzreva (here)
Jesus [...] did not eat flesh.

Was Jesus a vegetarian? by Matt Slick

No, Jesus was not a vegetarian. He partook of the Passover Meal which was lamb.

Exodus 12:3,6-7,11, “Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth of this month they are each one to take a lamb for themselves, according to their fathers’ households, a lamb for each household”…” 6‘And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight. 7 ‘Moreover, they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it…11‘Now you shall eat it in this manner: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste--it is the LORD’S Passover.”

Mark 14:13-14, And He *sent two of His disciples, and *said to them, “Go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him; 14 and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher says, “Where is My guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?”’

Source http://carm.org/questions/about-jesu...sus-vegetarian

Hi Atlas/buares,

Allow me to point-out what I perceive as a flaw in your comment.

1. Outside of the New Testament, there is no physical evidence that any individual named Jesus ever existed. The most likely character from the actual historic record for this role was named Yeshua ben Yosef, or as the OP prefers to call him, "Yahoshua".

The name Yeshua ben Yosef is used throughout the original text of the Nag Hammadi Codices and Gospels. These are all the text that was declared heretical by agents of the Roman Empire, i.e. Saints of the Roman Catholic Conspiracy, over a nearly 400 year period of time, prior to the final canonization of the New Testament sometime around the year 400 AD (CE). Even from within these Nag Hammadi Text, translators will use the word Jesus as an accurate translation of the name Yeshua Ben Yosef.

In Western Christianity the name Yeshua is translated into the name Jesus because it sounds less Jewish, a common Fundamental Roman-Christian twist. However, the most accurate translation would be Joshua.

2. Although using Exodus 12:3,6-7,11 is most likely an accurate description of ancient Jewish traditions, and could be used in any argument regarding what practicing Jews do at the Pass Over, there is no evidence that the Nazarene Essenes, or as the OP prefers, "The Nazoraions", were in any way practicing traditional Pass Over rituals. Scholars who have studied the Essenes through the scrolls they left behind in Qumran, Israel, in general, agree that they were very strict regarding their diet. Many scholars will agree they were practicing vegetarians.

Now, this conclusion will offend any Christian Apologist who will defend the accuracy of the Old and New Testament without exception, but the evidence simply does not support the accuracy of either these documents - as we know them today, especially the New Testament. One need only ask the question, "how many versions of the Holy Bible do we have?" - yet, all allegedly the same document, or the "Undisputed Word of God".

3. You will not find any Biblical Scholar who will agree that Mark the Evangelist, a companion and interpreter of the apostle Peter, ever wrote the Gospel attributed to his name. How then is it possible one use any text anywhere in this Biblical document as a basis for an argument regarding what the Nazarene Essenes did, or didn't eat? The validity of the entire Holy Bible is in question. Using text taken from this document as evidence to support a claim regarding the validity of the document, is circular logic.

Additionally, the phrase, "and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him", is an allegory for the sign of the Zodiac, Aquarius, the "Water Bearer". Much of the Bible is symbolic, with hidden meaning for, "those with ears to hear, and eyes to see".

As I stated in my comment #24, "It matters not to me what the Nazoraions, nor what Yahoshua did, or didn't eat."

My debate with the OP spans other threads. Members with an interest can review other comments concerning the accuracy of Biblical Text documented in this thread: Christian or Nazoraion?

[Atlas]

Thank you observer.

If I understand you correctly, Jesus, Joshua, Yeshua and Yahoshua are the same individual, right? This is interesting.

Posted by observer
Many scholars will agree they were practicing vegetarians.

Do you know who the "many scholars" are ? Is there a link where I can read what they wrote ?

[observer]

Posted by Atlas (here)
Thank you observer.

If I understand you correctly, Jesus, Joshua, Yeshua and Yahoshua are the same individual, right? This is interesting.

Posted by observer
Many scholars will agree they were practicing vegetarians.

Do you know who the "many scholars" are ? Is there a link where I can read what they wrote ?

Yes Atlas, all those names can be applied to the same entity, although the Jesus name is the most heretical of them all. I can just imagine the Yahoshua entity sitting in some hyperdimensional realm listening to all those prayers to Jesus from the Mass of Humanity, and looking around while asking, "who is this Jesus character they are all crying-out to"?

Any in depth study will reveal that Josephus, Philo, Pliny, Dio Chrysostom and Hippolytus of Rome spoke of the Essenes. These were perhaps the earliest scholars to write on the Essene Community. What one will soon realize is the fact that the New Testament nearly exclusively overlooks the importance of the Essene Community to early Christianity, and purposely obscures the Nazoraion element by calling him Jesus of Nazareth - not Jesus the Nazarene. This is a heresy to the origins of Christianity.

In lieu of making a list of scholars for you to study, I have compiled a list of modern Essene Communities one can study and get a better understanding of what the Essene Community of antiquity was all about. Within any of these links one will find references to the Essene Diet.

The Teachings of Essene -
Note: A page of excellent links on all things Essene. Seek-out any particular links on the Essene Diet.
http://ramsss.com/christian/essene/

Introduction to the Ancient Essenes and the Modern Essene Church of Christ -
http://www.essene.org/Ancient_Essenes.htm

Who Are The Essenes -
http://www.essenespirit.com/index.html
Especially focus on: The Essene Principles and Rules of Life -
http://www.essenespirit.com/principles.html

And something from the International Vegetarian Union: Was Christ a Vegetarian? -
http://www.ivu.org/history/christian/christ_veg.html
Read-down to the last line on that page. The Cathar were the last living Gnostic (Essene) Christians to be annihilated by the Roman Empire.

Please Note:
In all of these links I have attempted to avoid any reference to the Essene Gospel of Peace, and the popular Essene Diet extracted from that text. Far too much controversy surrounds that particular work by Edmund Bordeaux Szekely.

[nzreva]

Jesus that is Yahoshua was a Nazoraion John 18:5, 7 Acts 22:8, Nazoraion's did not eat flesh.
“A Nazoraion never ate meat”
Peter, one of the better known disciples, quoting him from the Clementine Homolies (sermons), a script that comes to us via Clemens, the head of the Roman community, and that appeared ca. 220 in Palestine. According to it,
Peter lived on bread and olives to which he sometimes added vegetables (XII:6).
John
And about the disciple, John, one can read the well-known church historian, Eusibius, (ca. 300) that he “never ate meat.” (Church History II., 2:3)
Similar things are reported about the disciple Matthew. Clemens of Alexandria (3rd century), recognized as reliable by both friends and enemies, writes about Matthew that he lived “from plants and never touched meat,”
Paul was a Nazoraion
Acts 24:5 "For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazoraios.
(Paidagogos [=“The Pedagoge,” the first Christian ethics book] II, 1:16), just as the disciple Matthew, who was voted into the circle of the twelve after the death of Judas.
And Carl Anders Skriver adds that according to writers of the 2nd century, the apostles Andrew, Philip and Thomas as well as Mark and Luke were vegetarian (p.15 He did not wash his hands before he ate which means he would have gotten his Vit b 12 from the ground.

Posted by lucidity (here)
The vegetarianism of Jesus, seems consistent with the hypothesis that Jesus was a Buddhist.
But Jesus ate fish... or ... he was happy to work miracles to feed fish to his followers.

But how does one get a rich supply of vitamin B12 on a vegetarian diet?
The answer is ... eat fish. Fish, especially salmon and trout etc have good levels of B12.
(see here http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-...0000000-5.html )

Now all you have to do is figure out which sources of fish are free of PCBs, dioxins and mercury.
If anyone has an answer to that please feel free to PM me with the answer(s).
I will be both interested and grateful :-)

be happy

lucidity :-)

[nzreva]

Nazoraion true Essens and and certain Gnostics did not eat the passover lamb. The first clear evidence that yahoshua was a non meat eater is that his apostles abided by the plant-based diet. Church historian Eusebius wrote in his work “Demonstratio Evangelica” (“Proof of the Gospels”):
“They [the apostles] embraced and persevered in a strenuous and a laborious life, with fasting and abstinence from wine and meat.”

And in his “Church History” text, Eusebius wrote that apostle John “never ate meat.” The Early Church Father St. Clement of Alexandria, who was also a non meat eater, wrote about the apostle Matthew:

“It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh.”

And in St. Clement’s “Clementine Homilies,”, St. Peter is quoted as having said: “I live on olives and bread to which I rarely only add vegetables.”

They followed the example of The Nazoraion, Yahoshua.

[nzreva]

Some things I will not eat "all creatures are good".... Aborted babies for one, yet in China they can justify that by quoting Paul. I am a believer in life for all, that is what Yahoshua the Nazoraion means. I do not need to study his teachings to believe this but it did help me to read them to understand that all life is precious. As far as veggies, they do not have a nervous system... I do believe they respond to outside elements. I write to help develop my thoughts and to get input back that further develops my thoughts which will determine my actions....