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  1. Link to Post #1
    Ilie Pandia
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    Default All about IQ tests

    I know that I could have looked this up on Google, but I confess on being lazy and realizing I could just ask Avalon .

    So here is the problem.

    If someone is tested to have an IQ of 190, this means that the person who wrote the tests is at least IQ 191, right?

    I was told that was not the case...

    But then for me it's impossible to quantify just how intelligent can the "most intelligent human" be, if no one actually is capable of understanding this person!

    This is why I think in order to be able to measure intelligence in smart people, you need to be at least as smart as them.

    To illustrate this more dramatically:

    Could a monkey perform an accurate IQ evaluation of a human? Most would agree that it's not possible. The monkey may conclude one of two things:

    - the humans are either crazy
    or
    - they are so intelligent that they make no sense to me!

    But just how intelligent the humans are, the monkey cannot comprehend and therefore any "IQ quotient" it may associate with the human tested, it's actually meaningless. It just says: crazy or higher than mine!

    And now I get to the question in the title... who creates the IQ tests? The smartest people on the planet? And if not... then what's the value of those tests? Since it would be monkeys testing something well beyond their ability to comprehend...

    (I don't mean to insult anybody with my analogies, I'm only trying to make it more visible. I am very well ware of very smart people whom I cannot comprehend and the distance between my abilities and theirs could be compared to the distance between a monkey and a human. It is what it is...).
    Last edited by Ilie Pandia; 3rd January 2015 at 23:53.

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Here is an interesting place to start, regarding figuring out what is what in the world of 'intelligence tests'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_K._Hoeflin

    Apparently, The chess champion Gary Kasparov concluded that a single genius with an IQ of, oh, lets say 190.. could dance circles around a room full of scientists and geniuses with an IQ of 170. Or about 20 iq points down, all relative at 190-170, as a differential.

    dropping that to the 'norm' of 100 IQ points, means that the average university graduate, with an IQ of 125 could then dance circles around the average person with an IQ of 100.

    The great equalizer is VIOLENCE. Those without intelligence resort to violence to achieve their desires and ends.

    which tells you a considerable amount about the true nature of the NWO types.

    They use violence as a norm, which means they are NOT intellectual giants as they cannot figure out non violent solutions. They simply are not intelligent enough.

    War, murder, violence, etc is the last resort of the moron.
    Last edited by Carmody; 3rd January 2015 at 22:44.
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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Trust me on this , the amount of people I've met in the UK who went to University are as dumb as a box of rocks . I kid you not . They may be proficient in their field of study , but as for anything out of that field they don't have a clue . IQ tests are for people who think they are more intelligent than anyone else .
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    To my understanding, the IQ tests are designed to test both an individual's ability to think and reason, as well as learn in response to stimulus. It is a categorization, not necessarily a validation or uncontestable qualification.

    That "legitimate" IQ tests are only able to be administered by Psychologists and Psychiatrists is most suspect IMO, but the idea that humans can consistently be observed to achieve various levels of 'score' based on their intellectual aptitude is (somewhat) well proven and documented. Still, the person who wrote the test ought to get a 'perfect' score though right? Even if they're not 'immaculately' intelligent, they wrote the darn thing!

    IIRC the 'standardized' IQ (Intelligence Quotient) test goes by something like "The Adult Age Intelligence something something"; I'm deliberately not doing any refinitive research before making this post.

    The idea is that as an organism ages there are observable trends and 'milestones' as far as mental ability are concerned, and the IQ test is geared toward categorizing 'premature' or 'unusual' advances (or retractions!) as compared to the aggregate 'normal' threshold. There are inherent flaws to this method, but (playing the devil's advocate) it's not designed as a perfect method.

    Edit: Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, I was WAY off.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient
    Last edited by Shezbeth; 3rd January 2015 at 22:54.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Mensa is the answer you're looking for http://www.mensa.org.uk/
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Whoa there, Mensa is an organization which purports authority in the areas of IQ, but their tests and screenings are not standardized or officiated (other then by them). While this does not necessarily disqualify them as objective, neither does it qualify them as objective.

    The standardized IQ tests are designed - or at least reportedly intended - to measure objective intellectual ability, whereas Mensa does so as a qualification for participation/membership (specifically, the top 2%).

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    IQ test cannot be that accurate , about four months ago I was curious about myself and I took three different IQ test and tested with an average IQ of 145 and I'm not that smart and computers still give me headaches ... but the questions seemed redundant , like the answers were so obvious it was boring ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    I always saw IQ tests as a simple test of different types of reasoning, and the proficiency of those to be used. Nothing more, and not really an "intelligence" test. The person with a 180 IQ but no knowledge and poor language skills, will not be able to express their intelligence very well - likewise a person with a 140 IQ and vast knowledge - has a greater range of expression to be able to show that 140.

    Loved Carmody's post -- so true, so true ... It might not just be violence, but manipulation, deceit, spin, etc. -- you know, the stuff politicians are made of
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Quote Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)

    If someone is tested to have an IQ of 190, this means that the person who wrote the tests is at least IQ 191, right?
    Hi, Ilie! This is interesting stuff.

    I'd say that the higher the IQ (whatever that is!) — the harder it is to measure it, and the more meaningless the numbers are.

    With most tests (but not all), speed is a factor. So the person with an IQ of 190 might be able to breeze through all the test questions in half an hour, but the poor soul who created it all might have worked in it for a month.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    I agree , however it is the only standard of IQ tests (as far as I'm aware ) that is out there . I'm not promoting Menas , I only use them as a reference . Any test , imho , is what the outcome is to any problem set before you . Every person has a different answer to every problem, IQ has little to no meaning in my book . But hey I'm a dumb anyway so what do I know
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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  19. Link to Post #11
    Ilie Pandia
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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Hi,

    Thanks for your input. The replies here made me realize that we don't even know what intelligence is, so what does that say about a concept like 'IQ'.

    And if we wake up to our "infinite potential" what happens then to the genetically inherited IQ limit ?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    With most tests (but not all), speed is a factor. So the person with an IQ of 190 might be able to breeze through all the test questions in half an hour, but the poor soul who created it all might have worked in it for a month.
    Well, at least this is something I can wrap my mind around !
    Last edited by Ilie Pandia; 3rd January 2015 at 23:52.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Hi Ilie,

    The IQ test was obviously written by and coming from a certain mindset of psychologists and scientist that presumed their perception of intelligence was the only perception, hence they created the IQ test.

    Although coming from the BBC I did find this documentary did give a more balanced view of intelligence. Although it didn't tackle the spiritual aspect

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=jW8qF3tUDl8

    I am on my iPhone so not sure if that link will work of desktops, so if not search for "what makes us smart bbc 2"

    The answer obviously can't be judged by any standard test as tests are by their own definition scientific and intelligence goes beyond science

    Love and Truth,

    Amenjo
    Last edited by Amenjo; 3rd January 2015 at 23:46.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Here's a little bit from one of the omega society members. It is quite nice. But, intelligence is no marker of ability to organize a sentence, or, possibly, the desire to care how that sentence is considered. I expect that he feels you'll get the proper gist, if you are intelligent enough.

    (eg, I only look 'ok' due to the existence of firefox's built in spell checkers)

    This way Kant saved philosophy from a certain death when it became clear that it should concentrate on its investigation of the structure of the mind, the beginning and end of all we know about oneself and the cosmos we create. Copernicus may have evicted man from center stage but Kant has put him back where he properly belongs, as the measure of all things that are and those that are not.

    Just like a most powerful independent computer part cannot logically analyze its own performance while simultaneously being a dependent part of the unit it is attempting to analyze, neither can a brain logically have thoughts about itself. Is this the end of philosophy? Kant extended his categorical imperatives to include morality. He felt it within himself that entity that cemented harmoniously all of cosmos. But he could not prove it! Must you prove the reality of all truths? Is it faith, denied by reason, empiricism and secularism? Is psychology the ultimate justification? Faith is like man’s shadow, never leaves you, but the lights must be ‘turned on’ for you to experience it.(*)

    The same science that, with Copernicus, Darwin and Newton, had caused man to be centrifugally ejected from his position at the center of creation has brought him back. Science is relative to the observer, to his physical context, to his own construction, to prevailing paradigms, influenced by his animical disposition, belief system and socio-cultural context.

    The 'new' kids on the block, Chomsky and Wittgenstein, further reinforce Kant’s vision: the brain acts like a logical machine that translates environmental energy into a language code that enables man to have thoughts about his intuitions, communicate them and above all, realize against its own rational will, that a first cause likely exists, one that is uncaused, uncreated and intelligent.


    http://www.delasierra-sheffer.net/ID...-net/index.htm



    (*)
    I look at that... and I think that what he means..is that ..if it is faith, without the 'lights turned on' so to speak, is then mere dogma and orderly machinations like controlled religion, or military rigor.

    Ie, hierarchy and control of people in threat enforced/enabled tiered systems, like that of the monkey/baboon clan or whatnot.
    Last edited by Carmody; 4th January 2015 at 00:19.
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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    My IQ back in grade school was avg. Not bad for someone who was in the school for the deaf, of which I am nearly so, but then I advanced to mainstream where I ended up in the National Honor Society in HS and then got a point avg. in college that was good enough to qualify for grad school.... all without hearing a word of whatever the teachers and prof's were saying in class.
    Needless to say, I had to rely on other students notes and the textbooks to pull through.

    My son though, who is normal, was in the gifted students program called GATE all through his school years. There are a number of exceptionally intelligent people in my family but as luck would have it, myself and some of my siblings were burdened with a hearing deficit that made things much, much more difficult in the academic area.
    Last edited by Roisin; 4th January 2015 at 01:02.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    I still have my human development book out from when I used it for another post, here's some excerpts on what it says about measuring intelligence...

    "At the turn of the last century, Alfred Binet and Theodore Simon produced the forerunner of modern intelligence tests. In 1904, they were commissioned by the French government to devise a test that would identify "dull" children who might need special instruction. Binet and Simon devised a large battery of tasks measuring the skills believed to be necessary for classroom learning: attention, perception, memory, reasoning, verbal comprehension, and so on. Items that discriminated between normal children and those described by their teachers as slow were kept in the final test.

    The test was soon revised so that the items were age-graded. For example, a set of "6-year-old" items could be passed by most 6-year-olds but by few 5-year-olds; "12-year-old" items could be handled by most 12-year-olds but not by younger children. This approach permitted the testers to describe a child's mental age - the level of age-graded problems that the child is able to solve. Thus, a child who passes all items at the 5-year-old level but does poorly on more advanced items - regardless of the child's actual age - is said to have a mental age of 5.

    Binet's test became known as the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale after Lewis Terman of Stanford University translated and published a revised version of the test for use with American children. Terman developed a procedure for comparing a child's mental age (MA) with his chronological age (CA) by calculating an intelligence quotient (IQ), which consisted of MA divided by CA and then multiplied by 100 (IQ = MA/CA X 100). An IQ score of 100 indicates average intelligence, regardless of a child's age: The normal child passes just the items that age-mates typically pass; mental age increases each year, but so does chronological age. The child of 8 with a mental age of 10 has experienced rapid intellectual growth and has a high IQ (specifically, 125); if she still has a mental age of 10 when she is 15 years old, then she has an IQ of only 67 and is clearly below average compared with children of the same age.

    The Stanford-Binet, now in its fifth edition, is still in use (Roid, 2003). Its test norms - standards of normal performance expressed as average scores and the range of scores around the average - are based on the performance of a large, representative sample of people (2-year-olds through adults) from many socio-economic and racial backgrounds. The concept of mental age is no longer used to calculate IQ; instead, individuals receive scores that reflect how well or how poorly they do compared with others of the same age. An IQ of 100 is still average, and the higher the IQ score an individual attains, the better the performance is in comparison with that of age-mates."

    In the section under, "What is intelligence?", it admits there is no clear consensus on the definition of intelligence. Experts offer different definitions, many of them centering on the ability to think abstractly or to solve problems effectively. For anyone who is of the opinion that the standard IQ test falls short of providing an accurate measurement of one's intelligence, I agree with you and I found Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences to be a more comprehensive view on intelligence and how we could better go about measuring it.

    "Howard Gardner (1993, 1999/2000; Chen & Gardner, 1997) rejects the idea that a single IQ score is a meaningful measure of human intelligence. He argues that there are many intelligences, most of which have been ignored by the developers of standardized intelligence tests. Instead of asking, "How smart are you?" researchers should be asking, "How are you smart?" and identifying people's strengths and weaknesses across the full range of human mental faculties (Chen & Gardner, 1997). Gardner (1993, 2000) argues that there are at least eight distinct intellectual abilities:

    1. Linguistic intelligence. Language skills, such as those seen in the poet's facility with words.
    2. Logical-mathematical intelligence. The abstract thinking and problem solving shown by mathematicians and computer scientists and emphasised by Piaget.
    3. Musical intelligence. Based on an acute sensitivity to sound patterns.
    4. Spatial intelligence. Most obvious in great artist who can perceive things accurately and transform what they see.
    5. Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence. The skilful use of the body to create crafts, perform, or fix things; shown, for example, by dancers, athletes, and surgeons.
    6. Interpersonal intelligence. Social intelligence, social skill, exceptional sensitivity to other people's motivations and moods; demonstrated by salespeople and psychologists.
    7. Intrapersonal intelligence. Understanding of one's own feelings and inner life.
    8. Naturalist intelligence. Expertise in the natural world of plants and animals.

    Traditional IQ tests emphasize the linguistic and logical-mathematical intelligence and to some extent test spatial intelligence, perhaps because these are the forms of intelligence Western societies value most highly and work the hardest to nurture in school. But IQ tests can be faulted for ignoring most of the other forms of intelligence. Although Gardner does not claim that his is the definitive list of intelligences, he presents evidence suggesting that each of these eight abilities is distinct. For example, it is clear that a person can be exceptional in one ability but poor in others - witness savant syndrome, the phenomenon in which extraordinary talent in a particular area is displayed by a person otherwise mentally retarded (Treffert, 2000)."

    Source: Rider, E., & Sigelman, C. (2009) Life-span human development.

    Note: The emphasis on "How are you smart?" is my own.
    Last edited by Innocent Warrior; 4th January 2015 at 01:13. Reason: added text, typos
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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    When I was a child, my parents made ​​me take an IQ test , I got a score of 135 , which surprised my doctor but not my mother.

    I could already read , write and count at the age of 5 years and half. However, I do not think this is the right solution. Because a child needs to grow up with other children their age , whatever their level of intelligence.The meaning of the Intelligence Quotient ,it is actually an estimate of the mental age of an individual. Scores are scaled so that the average is 100;10 points above 100 mean 10 years of mental age in addition to our present age.

    However, calculating the IQ of a child usually resolves as the level of culture based on personal experiences of life. For a 6 year old would have an IQ of 125 is not actually the mental age of a 31 year it will be even more interested in his toy cars or dolls even Einstein played games of children, despite his intellectual advance. Generally, a score above 130 means that the individual brain works differently from that of a normal individual; he will understand more quickly the issues and implications of a situation or problem will be more methodical in his search for elements of a solution , it does not dwell on the same points as his peers,and find a solution.

    I do not take this kind of test too seriously because it is more useful to flatter the ego poor at accurately measuring the level of human intelligence.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    I still have my human development book out from when I used it for another post, here's some excerpts on what it says about measuring intelligence...

    "At the turn of the last century, Alfred Binet and Theodore Simon produced the forerunner of modern intelligence tests. In 1904, they were commissioned by the French government to devise a test that would identify "dull" children who might need special instruction. Binet and Simon devised a large battery of tasks measuring the skills believed to be necessary for classroom learning: attention, perception, memory, reasoning, verbal comprehension, and so on. Items that discriminated between normal children and those described by their teachers as slow were kept in the final test.

    The test was soon revised so that the items were age-graded. For example, a set of "6-year-old" items could be passed by most 6-year-olds but by few 5-year-olds; "12-year-old" items could be handled by most 12-year-olds but not by younger children. This approach permitted the testers to describe a child's mental age - the level of age-graded problems that the child is able to solve. Thus, a child who passes all items at the 5-year-old level but does poorly on more advanced items - regardless of the child's actual age - is said to have a mental age of 5.

    Binet's test became known as the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale after Lewis Terman of Stanford University translated and published a revised version of the test for use with American children. Terman developed a procedure for comparing a child's mental age (MA) with his chronological age (CA) by calculating an intelligence quotient (IQ), which consisted of MA divided by CA and then multiplied by 100 (IQ = MA/CA X 100). An IQ score of 100 indicates average intelligence, regardless of a child's age: The normal child passes just the items that age-mates typically pass; mental age increases each year, but so does chronological age. The child of 8 with a mental age of 10 has experienced rapid intellectual growth and has a high IQ (specifically, 125); if she still has a mental age of 10 when she is 15 years old, then she has an IQ of only 67 and is clearly below average compared with children of the same age.

    The Stanford-Binet, now in its fifth edition, is still in use (Roid, 2003). Its test norms - standards of normal performance expressed as average scores and the range of scores around the average - are based on the performance of a large, representative sample of people (2-year-olds through adults) from many socio-economic and racial backgrounds. The concept of mental age is no longer used to calculate IQ; instead, individuals receive scores that reflect how well or how poorly they do compared with others of the same age. An IQ of 100 is still average, and the higher the IQ score an individual attains, the better the performance is in comparison with that of age-mates."

    In the section under, "What is intelligence?", it admits there is no clear consensus on the definition of intelligence. Experts offer different definitions, many of them centering on the ability to think abstractly or to solve problems effectively. For anyone who is of the opinion that the standard IQ test falls short of providing an accurate measurement of one's intelligence, I agree with you and I found Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences to be a more comprehensive view on intelligence and how we could better go about measuring it.

    "Howard Gardner (1993, 1999/2000; Chen & Gardner, 1997) rejects the idea that a single IQ score is a meaningful measure of human intelligence. He argues that there are many intelligences, most of which have been ignored by the developers of standardized intelligence tests. Instead of asking, "How smart are you?" researchers should be asking, "How are you smart?" and identifying people's strengths and weaknesses across the full range of human mental faculties (Chen & Gardner, 1997). Gardner (1993, 2000) argues that there are at least eight distinct intellectual abilities:

    1. Linguistic intelligence. Language skills, such as those seen in the poet's facility with words.
    2. Logical-mathematical intelligence. The abstract thinking and problem solving shown by mathematicians and computer scientists and emphasised by Piaget.
    3. Musical intelligence. Based on an acute sensitivity to sound patterns.
    4. Spatial intelligence. Most obvious in great artist who can perceive things accurately and transform what they see.
    5. Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence. The skilful use of the body to create crafts, perform, or fix things; shown, for example, by dancers, athletes, and surgeons.
    6. Interpersonal intelligence. Social intelligence, social skill, exceptional sensitivity to other people's motivations and moods; demonstrated by salespeople and psychologists.
    7. Intrapersonal intelligence. Understanding of one's own feelings and inner life.
    8. Naturalist intelligence. Expertise in the natural world of plants and animals.

    Traditional IQ tests emphasize the linguistic and logical-mathematical intelligence and to some extent test spatial intelligence, perhaps because these are the forms of intelligence Western societies value most highly and work the hardest to nurture in school. But IQ tests can be faulted for ignoring most of the other forms of intelligence. Although Gardner does not claim that his is the definitive list of intelligences, he presents evidence suggesting that each of these eight abilities is distinct. For example, it is clear that a person can be exceptional in one ability but poor in others - witness savant syndrome, the phenomenon in which extraordinary talent in a particular area is displayed by a person otherwise mentally retarded (Treffert, 2000)."

    Source: Rider, E., & Sigelman, C. (2009) Life-span human development.

    Note: The emphasis on "How are you smart?" is my own.
    They've improved these tests to be more comprehensive, amongst other things too.

    I took my IQ test back in the late 50's.

    This test has changed a lot since then.

    I'm close to 60 now.
    Last edited by Roisin; 4th January 2015 at 02:12.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Real interesting posts folks!

    Quote Who creates the IQ tests?

    While I don't have the answer to that question, I believe that the IQ tests were/are created by professional academicians who have little (if any) experience in the real world.

    Just like trying to apply a theory in the real world, how does that usually work out for you? More times than none, it takes some experimentation and tweaking of the theory before it can be applied in the real world. This is called experience.

    So I guess what I'm trying to say is there has to be a balance between intelligence and experience, otherwise what good is there of having a high IQ?

    Unless of course your only ambition in life is to be a career academician.


    p.s. I'm an old guy, so you can trust what I say!


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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    My IQ back in grade school was avg. Not bad for someone who was in the school for the deaf, of which I am nearly so, but then I advanced to mainstream where I ended up in the National Honor Society in HS and then got a point avg. in college that was good enough to qualify for grad school.... all without hearing a word of whatever the teachers and prof's were saying in class.
    Needless to say, I had to rely on other students notes and the textbooks to pull through.

    My son though, who is normal, was in the gifted students program called GATE all through his school years. There are a number of exceptionally intelligent people in my family but as luck would have it, myself and some of my siblings were burdened with a hearing deficit that made things much, much more difficult in the academic area.
    ...all without hearing a word of whatever the teachers and prof's were saying in class,
    I had to rely on other students notes and the textbooks to pull through.


    A very telling matter, Roisin : )
    WE are here to share for advancement to higher ground, no hearing needed.

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    Default Re: All about IQ tests

    Quote Posted by Harley (here)
    Just like trying to apply a theory in the real world, how does that usually work out for you? More times than none, it takes some experimentation and tweaking of the theory before it can be applied in the real world. This is called experience.
    Absolutely, even academics would agree with you here, pretty much anyway. The current thinking concerning intelligence has been greatly influenced by a focus on two broad dimensions of intellect, "fluid intelligence" and "crystallised intelligence". Fluid intelligence is the ability to solve problems and crystallised intelligence is the knowledge acquired through education and life experience.

    So, generally speaking, they lump experience in with schooling under the category of acquired knowledge.
    Last edited by Innocent Warrior; 4th January 2015 at 02:57. Reason: added text
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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