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Thread: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

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    United States Avalon Member jerry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    The rest of the story with happy ending justice served nobody died

    Twain Thomas was sentenced to 15 years in prison Thursday for the February attempted murder. Neighbor James Cvengros said he set up a video camera when he heard the 54-year-old scream in the complex hallway. Moments later, Thomas burst chopped through the door and swung his machete, forcing Cvengros to shoot the intruder, he said.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2083692

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    My wife and I and some friends that live nearby , went out to the woods to do some shooting today ... there is nothing like confidence , knowing if some one kicks in your door , you will survive ... we should not live in fear , for if we do , we aren't really living ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    how can you die if you have never lived?

    You don't have life, all you have is it's fear.

    It's not confidence, it's a small island of relaxation in a vortex of insanity, where you can't see the edges because you respond to the impetus with not thought, but animal reaction.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    how can you die if you have never lived?

    You don't have life, all you have is it's fear.

    It's not confidence, it's a small island of relaxation in a vortex of insanity, where you can't see the edges because you respond to the impetus with not thought, but animal reaction.

    'Animal reaction' IS a part of a life lived. Isolating a part of life and calling it such does not make it so.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Fear,... what an onerous word to fling around. Many who accuse others of it are - in fact - disguising it and concealing it in/from themselves. ^_~

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    United States Avalon Member jerry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    "nothing to fear but fear itself" .... we all experience it to some degree...and is the basis for our industrial pharmaceutical complex and a topic for a whole new thread, it is part of life.
    Last edited by jerry; 25th January 2015 at 04:38.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    The mans violent reaction in the video is justified, tho its hardly an endorsement for guns. There will always be situations in which gun possession would be favorable, and those that favor fire arms will point to them loudly and endlessly as the perfect argument for gun ownership. But those situations in which gun ownership would be favorable only exist in the presence of other guns ie when someone is threatening you with a gun. Its catch-22 madness. A circle of insanity.

    Arguing the gun issue is necessary ...and yet it misses the point entirely unless framed in the context of the greater madness plaguing the world today. Its like putting a bandage on the festering wound of a diabetic without addressing the diabetes at all. But when an intelligent person attempts to give a nuanced, all-encompassing view of the issue, people get restless and demand absolutes....I'm thinking of someone like Bill O'Reilly here...

    I think the very presence of guns in our country suggests insanity. I don't think anyone should have guns, except perhaps law enforcement. If no one had guns, then guns wouldn't be necessary - pro gun folks couldn't justify their argument.

    Meanwhile, people do have them, and maddening lesser-of-the-evil decisions must be made regarding them. I don't think abolishment of guns will happen as a result of legislation; it will happen, God willing, as a result of the (hopefully) planetary shift from insanity to sanity

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    Fear,... what an onerous word to fling around. Many who accuse others of it are - in fact - disguising it and concealing it in/from themselves. ^_~
    Oh man ... the disguises it takes ... !!! Don't just be using it for your specific point ... look for it everywhere ... in yourself (myself) almost all fear is disguised as "practical" or "logical" --- it goes so deep. Even for myself (yourself) ... I have some "preparations" ... seems logical, but the deep root is fear of lack. When you look at everything a human does -- every decision he makes -- he is reacting in fear 99.99 percent of the time. It's ****ed up. Like Miguel Ruiz has stated, paraphrased ... you can get used to hell ... it can seem "normal".
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by Frances2014 (here)
    I am an infinite being living in a human instrument on a living planet with other beings.
    I try to do my best to find truth in every situation and I did not watch this video.
    My choice is to give directions to the universe that do not intersect with violent situations that will harm myself as well as any other being.
    I can understand where you're coming from. But I believe every being is potentially infinite, not just humans. And that creates the situation where, even if we seal ourselves off and we think we are impenetrably in our own world, locked into a certain set of beliefs and ways of seeing the world, someone else can still, literally, in this case, come kick our door down. If you trace everything back to the source, all of this is just part of the game, too.


    Quote Posted by Matisse (here)
    I don,t find this video very credible, the door does seem like it is from a b-movie, plus who whom feels under attack takes the time to set up a video camera in front of the door... it just doesn,t feel right...
    If you had an idea that the guy would do this (and there's an indication above that this may have not been the first time the guy kicked the door in), then you'd want to capture it on camera for legal purposes. You could sue him for damages and once the video is shown in court it's case closed for that guy.


    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    You are someone's meal, someone's animal, someone's food, someone's bitch...and you are in a box, not a life.... and you have no concept of it.

    Your circle of logic is too small, you will never see it, and refuse to see it as the truth is too painful.
    I appreciate the sense of dramatic philosophizing, but if you are going to exert so much energy saying so many words then you might as well say something practical, as in something that can actually be practically applied in the real world to make a change here.

    I'm not for killing innocent people and I'm not even a sports fan, but if you were in the same situation as the guy above, and the guy by his own admission wanted to kill you with that machete, then, not in some other time and space, but in that exact moment, what would your improvement be upon the situation?

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    Avalon Member Tesseract's Avatar
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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    I am more wary of gun owners, including some of the self-described ‘responsible’ ones, than I am of random nut jobs and criminals. Now, there certainly are a lot of what you might call ‘quiet’ gun owners where I live that own a firearm for one reason or another without it being a part of their psyche – these people don’t bother me at all. However there also seem to be a lot of more active gun owners who relish their firearms with great, and frankly, childish, intensity.

    The gun owner that concerns me most is the one who actually craves the incident that allows him (because they are mostly men) to shoot someone, because this validates their mindset and also makes them the hero. If ever I am in a traffic dispute that gets heated, or there is some kind of altercation in the street, or a misunderstanding about something somewhere, there is the risk of getting shot because the person against me might be ‘carrying’ [which is almost certainly an indication that they are paranoid, for there is virtually zero crime in this area] and wants to make a man of themselves or, similarly, satiate a latent desire for authority that comes with the pointing of a gun. I really do not appreciate having my life depend on the subjective judgment of a man who is so paranoid he has to carry a loaded gun in his pocket in a small, low-crime town.

    I live in a low-cost apartment complex with neighbors on either side. My neighbors change probably every 6 months or so. It doesn’t seem to matter who is there, they always have raging domestic disputes at one time or another. So far it has only ever been yelling (or getting deliberately locked out in the snow), but if one of these disputes reached an acute level that mandated my interference (because I am not one to call the cops, and the station (unattended the one time I called it on a different matter) is 20 minutes drive away), I’d have to worry that the raging neighbor has a gun, has the desire to use it, and might shoot me if I interfere, especially since he’d have it that the law was on his side if I entered his apartment without consent. It’s kind of the inverse of the example of the original video.

    I don’t deny that ‘perfect’ examples exist where some innocent person would have died if they didn’t have a gun to protect themselves, and for dangerous areas I would never criticize someone for keeping a readily-accessible gun in their home. But this general and widespread inculcation of the gun being an essential self-defense tool for the responsible citizen has, along with other factors, created an unseen army of armed and, dare I say it, incident-craving paranoids, that at any moment could turn a difficult situation into a deadly one.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Arguing the gun issue is necessary ...and yet it misses the point entirely unless framed in the context of the greater madness plaguing the world today. Its like putting a bandage on the festering wound of a diabetic without addressing the diabetes at all. But when an intelligent person attempts to give a nuanced, all-encompassing view of the issue, people get restless and demand absolutes....I'm thinking of someone like Bill O'Reilly here...
    The relevant situation, when someone is forced into a situation where they have to make decisions that could potentially save or end their own life, necessarily becomes a situation of absolutes.

    When you remove yourself from that immediate situation, that's when you have enough space for people to start theorizing, philosophizing, politicizing. But you have to put yourself into the shoes of the people who are actually in these situations, and feel how you yourself would react, and what you would do, in order to properly appreciate them. Even if they are made illegal, people who do illegal things will undoubtedly still have them. As if this isn't obvious enough, there are thousands, if not millions of cases already proving this in states such as New York or even the entire country of Mexico.

    As far as the over-all problem of ... the fact that guns exist in the first place .... it may be a catch-22 that you feel you only need them to defend against other people with guns, but the only "practical" solution that could be offered here is to just remove all guns from the face of the Earth, forever. That may sound like a genius idea to some people but (1) I really don't think it's actually practical or even realistic to achieve that, and (2) you will never be able to get rid of the knowledge of how to construct a gun, which means any individual, group or foreign government could easily begin making them again, and then what kind of situation will we have created?

    I think guns will eventually become obsolete on their own, and we won't have any need for the government to go around seizing them from law-abiding citizens so that everyone would then need the nanny-state to come save them from the criminals who obviously are not going to follow laws in the first place. Guns will become obsolete the way that swords became obsolete: when a more effective technology replaces them.


    And then the debate will begin all over again, until society finally matures enough to be responsible with weapons of any type.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Yes, having a gun at the ready was definitely a good thing for this man and his family.

    Yes, the madman got what he deserved.

    However ... I'd like to know a little more about the circumstances before I agree with the OP. Like, how quickly did the trouble escalate? I'd have called 911 at the first sign of trouble in the hall, especially if I'd had trouble with "Dwayne" the day before. Maybe I'm too cautious, but I'd have alerted the cops to Dwayne's behaviour yesterday.

    As for the idea that this incident justifies arming everyone, everywhere, I'm inclined to take a more balanced perspective and weigh the odds of something like this happening to me. How common is this kind of thing, really? The only time I've ever seen this before was in "The Shining". And that posed no risk, other than maybe cardiac arrest.

    Still, I'm glad I have a steel door.

    Brian
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    I have some "preparations" ... seems logical, but the deep root is fear of lack. When you look at everything a human does -- every decision he makes -- he is reacting in fear 99.99 percent of the time.
    That's a bit of an over-generalization IMO. I have food because I recognize the inherent possibility that I will need to eat. I have clothes because I recognize - especially in the Pacific NW - that it is very easy and unhealthy for one to get too cold. I have weapons because I live in an environment with more than its share of methamphetamine addicts who might one day assault my persons (me and my sworn) or property; admittedly, I would be at a disadvantage if they brought a gun, but I practice with my weapons (as a form of physical, mental and spiritual training) and unless its a full-blown firing squad, I like my odds. That's not fear, that's risk assessment.

    Only one's perspective can dismiss practicality and logic as fear; I do not contest that there are cases where fear is disguised as such, but your '99.99%' is simply unsupportable.

    Personally, I don't believe in fear; I recognize the feeling of apprehension, or the sensation of an unresolved conflict, issue, obstacle, etc. but IMO 'fear' is as much a blanket rationalization as the word 'evil' (also 'good', and 'love' for that matter but that's a whole different can of worms that is probably better suited for another discussion).
    Last edited by Shezbeth; 25th January 2015 at 06:47.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    However ... I'd like to know a little more about the circumstances before I agree with the OP. Like, how quickly did the trouble escalate? I'd have called 911 at the first sign of trouble in the hall, especially if I'd had trouble with "Dwayne" the day before. Maybe I'm too cautious, but I'd have alerted the cops to Dwayne's behaviour yesterday.
    In the audio in the video you can hear the guy with the gun saying that he had already called the police before the loose cannon kicked his door in. Not sure how long in advance but at least there's that much.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by bsbray (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Arguing the gun issue is necessary ...and yet it misses the point entirely unless framed in the context of the greater madness plaguing the world today. Its like putting a bandage on the festering wound of a diabetic without addressing the diabetes at all. But when an intelligent person attempts to give a nuanced, all-encompassing view of the issue, people get restless and demand absolutes....I'm thinking of someone like Bill O'Reilly here...
    The relevant situation, when someone is forced into a situation where they have to make decisions that could potentially save or end their own life, necessarily becomes a situation of absolutes.

    When you remove yourself from that immediate situation, that's when you have enough space for people to start theorizing, philosophizing, politicizing. But you have to put yourself into the shoes of the people who are actually in these situations, and feel how you yourself would react, and what you would do, in order to properly appreciate them. Even if they are made illegal, people who do illegal things will undoubtedly still have them. As if this isn't obvious enough, there are thousands, if not millions of cases already proving this in states such as New York or even the entire country of Mexico.

    As far as the over-all problem of ... the fact that guns exist in the first place .... it may be a catch-22 that you feel you only need them to defend against other people with guns, but the only "practical" solution that could be offered here is to just remove all guns from the face of the Earth, forever. That may sound like a genius idea to some people but (1) I really don't think it's actually practical or even realistic to achieve that, and (2) you will never be able to get rid of the knowledge of how to construct a gun, which means any individual, group or foreign government could easily begin making them again, and then what kind of situation will we have created?

    I think guns will eventually become obsolete on their own, and we won't have any need for the government to go around seizing them from law-abiding citizens so that everyone would then need the nanny-state to come save them from the criminals who obviously are not going to follow laws in the first place. Guns will become obsolete the way that swords became obsolete: when a more effective technology replaces them.


    And then the debate will begin all over again, until society finally matures enough to be responsible with weapons of any type.
    To be clear: if someone broke into my home with the intent to kill me, I would use any and all resources available - including a gun - to defend myself. But the bigger question is, in my opinion, not whether or not hand guns should be legal, but what type of society have we become where a debate such as this is even necessary. How have we, over time, fostered this type of environment and how can we change it. As it has already been pointed out: we are a society based on fear. A fear based society will always operate from a point of damage control, and will behave accordingly.

    Its my sincere hope that we don't "mature" to more responsibly handle more and more sophisticated weapons. I think that's utterly insane. Maturity to me, spiritual or otherwise represents a mentality that requires no weapons at all.
    Last edited by Mike; 25th January 2015 at 07:05.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    If you want to correct a fear-based society, I'd say the first thing we need to do is finally get the crooks out of power, wherever they may be hiding. But then of course we come back to the age-old question of how to keep them out. I think introspection is a big factor in all of this. Psychology was a good invention but it's still not much more than 100 years old and we have some room to grow there.

    And I don't know what your positions on ETs are but I don't think we're alone in the universe by any means, and while there may be plenty of friendly or neutral races, I'm also convinced some of them are parasitic or even malicious, and that even ETs have to have weapons of some sort.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    such and argue but simple point FACT is missed...

    he had camera watching his doors in a first place..

    we all do that it is such a normal behaviour...
    besides having a gun!

    Be careful when wandering in the woods... The wolf may approach you... And if you are approached by a solitary wolf... It is not a wolf at all!

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by DarMar (here)
    he had camera watching his doors in a first place..

    we all do that it is such a normal behaviour...
    It is, if you read the context of this event as described in the thread a couple of times by now.

    People also drive around more often with cameras in their cars, too, recording everything they see while driving, for the same legal reasons. Some of the best footage of the meteor falling over Russia was taken this way, though I suppose the meteor may have been in on it with the guy in the car.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Quote Posted by bsbray (here)
    Can you not understand how a gun wouldn't make you feel safe if someone kicked through your door with a machete, and then after you shot him said he was going to kill you??? lol...

    Also a machete is not a gun, so I'm guessing machetes or knives would still be accessible in your area, and crazy people could still kill you with them. You could kill someone with a machete just as quickly as you could with a gun, and just as permanently.
    That is just wrong - this guy was shooting 'compasionately', not aiming for the head - he shot his body which brought him to a rapid halt it must be observed. You can indeed bring someone down in a heartbeat if you know what you are doing with gun.
    I know what I would rather have in an emergency - and these days you just never know when someone will take an irrational dislike of your face and attack you. Of course it is regrettable, but we have a right to defend our own and those who we care for lives.

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    Default Re: Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: “I Did The Right Thing”

    Some need to read the whole story before commenting. The machete man was the gun man's neighbor and he no doubt knew the history. He doesn't keep a camera pointed at his door. He knew the history, he heard the fight across the hall, he suspected the guy would come for him, he called 911 and THEN aimed his camera at the door to legally protect himself in case the crazy man came after him next and he had to protect his family with lethal force, which he obviously did not want to do.
    Smart guy.
    He stayed calm and under control in the face of a real threat and, as a result, survived what could have been a terrible end.
    I keep a Louisville Slugger by my door, a hunting knife close to the bed and a razor sharp machete in my truck. Not out of fear but out of a sense of responsibility to be prepared to protect my family in the case of something crazy happening. If machete man busted through that door and all the man had was a bat, he would have swung it and protected his family and maybe he wouldn't have had as much success as with a gun. You wouldn't be reading this story except that a gun was used and our major criminal media is always trying to demonize them.
    The reality is our world is run by psychopathic killers. Guns are legal in the US specifically as a check on tyrannical government abuse. It is no secret why government does all these false flags as an excuse to remove guns. It's the only thing preventing this country being a complete police state and keeping the "elected" criminals from throwing us all in FEMA camps. I wish we lived in that perfect utopia but unfortunately we still live in a world where most of the rulers and people are primitive. Unless you want to hide in a cave and instead you want to go out and must walk with wolves, you must be prepared.
    I have lots of experience with guns but I am not currently a gun owner but I am damn glad most of my neighbors are!

    Matt
    Fear is simply a consequence of a lack of information.

  31. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Matt P For This Post:

    A Voice from the Mountains (25th January 2015), Jean-Marie (25th January 2015), jerry (25th January 2015), joeecho (25th January 2015), Orph (25th January 2015), rgray222 (26th January 2015), TargeT (25th January 2015)

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